Messages Posted to Poythress Mailing List: 1997 (n = 1,258)

Message TopicAuthorMessage PostDate Posted
The Mother Lode?To all:

Al Tims found two likely suspects in UK.

First was a lady who was researching Poyntz'es. My query was do you think
there is any chance the two names could be variants of each other? She
talked to my answering machine asking about our Francis' dates and saying
say, I have a Francis Poythress down in Gloucester and N______. Send me your
guess as to his dates and I'll write you back.

That was kind of neat for a long shot so I immediately wrote her back and
expect to hear from her in a week or so.

Second, was a lady advertised as researching "Poytress". I wrote to her and
the transcription of her answer is below followed by my
observations/questions, etc.:

(copy)

Pat and Maurice Crewe 36 Trevelyan
01344 428438 Bracknell
Berkshire
RG12 8YD

4-May-97

Dear Maynard,

Many thanks for your letter of the 24th April concerning the Poythress family
and for the section from Boddie�s Historical Southern Families. I hadn�t
known that one founded a dynasty in the U. S. A. and I was delighted to learn
that there was a research group in existence. I am not on the internet yet
but hope to join it in the next few months.

I am enclosing a tree of my Poytress family in Gloucestershire - for
convenience I have mostly spelt the surname as above, but it appears in
infinite varieties. These are the names I am sure about, however, I do know
a bit more. You will see at the head of the tree Christopher Poythress and I
have put for his baptism 1684/1686. This is because there were 2 children
called Christopher - one Christopher was baptized 28 May 1684 in Newent to
Christopher Poythress and Katherine Ashley and the other was baptised 19 July
1686 in Newent to John Poythress and Joyce Pitt. Neither appears to have
died as a child and both fathers were butchers. So I have been unable to
find which one married Alice Hopkins. I presume that the fathers were
brothers. etc. etc.

To come to the Francis Poythress who came to America. Could he possibly be
the Francis baptised 12 Jul 1609 in Newent to John Poythress? I notice that
your Francis called his second son John, which could indicate that it was his
father�s name. I expect you have already looked into this but thought I
would mention it. A John Poydresse, who I think was Francis� father, owned a
house called Ploddy House in Taynton and died there 1648-49. I have a copy
of a paper dated 11 Apr 1649 Manor of Newent concerning the surrender of 2
copyhold properties (one being Ploddy House) late in the tenure of John
Poydresse, deceased. The admission of the property as given to Joan
Singleton, widow, and her son Francis and daughter Joan. I have always
thought that Joan could be John Poydresse�s daughter, but there is no mention
of his son Francis - could this be because he had gone to America?

We were lucky enough to be shown around the Ploddy House by the present
owners, who also told us it had been known as Bloody House and that a murder
had been committed there at one time - most likely after it was owned by John
Poydresse. There was also a neighbouring farmhouse called �Poydresse�. The
farmer�s wife had not known that the name of her house was from an old family
and let us take a couple of photographs of it. The farmer, who might have
known more, was unfortunately away from home.

I have quite a bit of information concerning the later Poytresses on my
family tree especially about a court case after the death of Thomas in 1803
when his wife was accused of putting too low a value on her husband�s estate.
By the way she was found guilty. She had to auction her husband�s effects
and I have the sale catalogue which goes into detail, even naming the horses.

I know 2 other people who are researching the Poytress family. The first is
Mrs. C. Lewis, 25 Ashleigh Court, Henllys, Cwmbran, Gwent, NP44 6HF and the
second is Margaret Fletcher, Fieldfare, West End, Northleach, Cheltenham,
Glos. GL54 3HF. There are probably many more as you will see from the tree
that they produced many children, but these are the only two who have
contacted me about the family.

Hope the above is not too muddled and that you find it interesting. I look
forward to hearing from you again.

Best wishes,

Pat Crewe /s/

MP observations:

1) how lovely to see those Oxfordian spellings instead of those of New
England's Webster, that devil incarnate.

2) I will manage to get Pat's 5 generations on paper for us. The good news
is it is a ton of Poythresses. The bad news is that the "line" begins 1683
so we have no interest except in the sense of wanting to do a
one-name-study....because all those guys and gals had nothing to do with
starting our line, they were only later parts of the line just like we are.
Even so, its uncanny how the names and faces are the same: wall to wall
Annes, Johns, Thomases, etc.

3) When I saw "Newell" in print I recognized it as something I couldn't
understand in the phone call from the Poyntz lady to my answering machine.
Folks, I think this
Newell (10 miles NW of Gloucester) is very likely to be our ORIGIN....at
least until/unless we can work back even further.

4. I will question Pat about her emphasis on "baptised"....that, heretofore
unsuspected by me, appears to be a key date to UK people as opposed to birth
dates which we key on. My guess is the culture of the times was to baptise
an infant almost at the moment of birth because the infant mortality rate was
incredibly high and, baptism being the price of a ticket to heaven, they
baptised a child before the child had a chance to die which for them was
anytime in the next few hours. I suspect that to be the case and if so their
baptism dates will be almost the equivalent to our birth dates. Anyway, I'll
ask.

5. If "baptised" is the practical equivalent of "born"....then Francis
baptised 12 Jul 1609 is pushing it to be a likely candidate for our
Francis....unless he could have been a "factor" at age 24. I guess I don't
have a very good understanding of the ages of those folks in terms of the
levels at which they functioned at relatively young ages.
I realize it was younger than today but I don't know how much younger.

6. If the Francis in question is known as Francis Poythress, I am certainly
willing to let his father get away with spelling it Poydresse if the link can
otherwise be reasonably made. Interesting that Pat Crewe also says the
spelling variations were
"infinite". Down in back, all you Portis fans cheering and clapping. Order
in the house.

7. I will most certainly answer Pat Crewe immediately with the suggestion
that we hold off on extended correspondance until she gets on the net. With
7 days delivery on the mail that shouldn't be more than a few "rotations"
anyway. I will also direct mail queries to the two other researchers Pat
mentions.

8. I am swamped with work but will get around to answering Pat Crewe in a day
or so. If a brainwave strikes any of you with a question I may have missed
fire it to me and I'll include it.

Nite all.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/13/1997 4:09:15
CleatonBelow is first posting seen of Cleaton family of Brunswick/Mecklenburg
County, Va.:

13 May, 1997

Post from Family Tree Maker�s genealogy site: Ancestors of Bertha Anne
Conner:

(note: estimated dates have unusually wide ranges due to the estimating
format of FTM)

William C. Cleaton II, b. 1709-1756 in Virginia; died bef. 1790. He was the
son of William C. Cleaton I. He married Jane Poole.

Jane Poole, born est. 1716-1758 in Virginia; died est. 1734-1839. She was
the daughter of William Poole and Elizabeth Tapley (prob.)

Children of William Cleaton and Jane Poole are:

1) Thomas Cleaton, born 1750-60 in Virginia; married Elizabeth Ann Barner
April 28, 1788 in Brunswick County, Virginia.

2) John Cleaton, born in Va.; married Mary Taylor 10 Nov 1787 in
Brunswick County, Va.

3) Mary Cleaton

4) Martha Cleaton

5) Jean Cleaton, married Mr. Giles

6) Edith Cleaton, born in Va.; married Meredith Poythress 24 July 1781 in
Mecklenburg County, Va.

7) Lucy Cleaton, married Mr. Matthews

8) Judith Cleaton, married Mr. Painter

Comment by C. Galas, originator of above, is that a Poythress Cleaton lived
two generations before this particular family. Questionable...needs
documentation.

------------------------------		05/13/1997 4:09:56
Re: CleatonTIMSPoythress List,

RE:
From: VKRatliff@aol.com
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Cleaton
Date: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 9:09 PM

The Cleaton surname information is very helpful. Maynard, recall that we
have deed data showing that a Cleaton Family lived next door to several of
the Poythress families in the mid-1700s. I suspect Poythress Cleaton
tracks to this relationship. Again, this is only a guess.

------------------------------		05/13/1997 4:15:22
Warren County, GeorgiaWarren County Deed Book "D", 1813-1817

Page 178

1st December 1812 Thomas H. Kendall, Sheriff of Warren County to Joseph
Paythrop (?) of Warren County at the suit of William Heath and others
against Henry Jones, did lately seize eighty two acres of land as the
property of said Henry Jones. Joseph Paythrop (?) being the highest bidder
and was knocked off to him at the price or sum of one hundred and thirty
dollars and twenty five cents.
Wit.: Presley Spinks and Arch. Flewellin. Rec. 14th August, 1815.

note: transcriber was correct to mark this "(?)"; it is likely Poythress;
will check on next trip to Georgia Archives.

Maynard Poythress
13 May 1997

------------------------------		05/13/1997 4:19:03
Re: The Mother Lode?TIMSPoythress List
RE:
From: VKRatliff@aol.com
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: The Mother Lode?
Date: Tuesday, May 13, 1997 9:09 PM

Maynard, this is fantastic! Folks, compare this information with the
information Liz Jack sent to us over the weekend -- posted on our web site
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

I see the same Parish names and the same given names.

Also, see the entry I added to the 1633-1700 references (only 1 so far).
In this 1637 reference to Francis we see his surname spelled -- "Poetres"

I will put Maynard's new information up on the web this evening...

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/13/1997 4:23:05
Re: Peter PoythressJean Spillewayne scruggs wrote:
Peter Poythress - The Peter Poythress who was sent to negotiate with
the Tuscarora Indians
in 1711 was the son of John Poythress the second. Johh Poythress Jr. was
married to Christian Peebles, a widow of Capt. David Peebles.John
Poythress the second was the son of Francis Poythress the first. Peter
married anne(last name could not be deciphered.)Peter and Anne had one
daughter named Anne Poythress. She was born 12-13-1712 and died
4-9-1758. She married Richard Bland of "Jordans" and had 12 children.
One of who was Elizabeth, born 1732 and married her first cousin Peter
Poythress. Francis Poythress the 1st is the immigrant Francis we hear
about. There was no record of Peter's death.Peter's wife Anne was also a
widow.Let me know if we are on the right track and I will dig for some
more.

Let me know if we are on the right track and I will dig for some
> more.
> Judy

Dear Judy and the list(at last a home).,

Yes, that is the right track, but there were a number of Poythresses at
that time, cousins, brothers who owned property in my target area.
That is Brunswick, Greensville, Southampton, Isle of Wight Counties -
refered to as Southside Virginia.

I believe most of them were involved in trade with the Indians. This
was extremely profitable and fortunes were made and lost quickly. The
gentry from Prince George, Charles City are the self-same ones who
ventured into Indian Lands...Peter and Francis Poythress, Robert Hicks,
William Byrd, Robert Mumford, Benjamin Harrison, Robert Bolling, Abraham
Wood all traded with the Indians since the late 1600's. I have just
received an article entitled "JAMES LOGAN COLBERT OF THE CHICKASAWS: THE
MAN AND THE MYTH", by Richard Colbert, North Carolina Genealogical
Society Journal, May 94., P.82

"The Indian traders who lived along the Roanoke River in North Carolina
during the 1700's were from all walks of life. Most were descendents of
Indian traders themselves. Others chose the life of a "woodsman" the
moment they set foot on American soil. Thee woodsmen came from
Scotland, Ireland, England, and the European countries. Others migrated
to America via Barbados and the West Indies. Still others came from
Africa. Some of the most famous Indian trading families were of African
descent. During the early, mid, ad late 1600's, Afican and West Indian
slaves were sent to Virginia and bought by "white" Indian traders such
as Charles Harmar, Abraham Wood, Benjamin Harrison, and others. Over
the years these slaves learned the "skin trade" and then gradually, one
by one, obtained their freedom. As "Free Men of Color" they continued
to support themselves and their families as Indian traders. In the
1700's several of these families migrated to North Carolina.
In the March, 1993, issue ofthe National Genealogical society
Quarterly, Dr. Virginia De Marce's article on the "Origins of Tri-racial
Isolate Settlements" made two important points. The first was that "
genealogicial research can make a major contributio toward identifying
the origins of 'mysterious' tri-racial isolate groups found in the Upper
South>" Her second point was that:

Many isolate groups still resist the idea of African-American ancestry.
Yet, if the genealgy of these families is to be be studied with any hope
of success, descendants who identify themselves with Indians must be
willing to consider frankly the possiblity of both white and
African-American components. Similarly, families whose current social
definition is white will have to consider the possiblity of Indian and
African-American components. To do otherwise is simply to wear
blinders"

on page 94 of the same article, the author writes:
"Further research revealed that the Turbevilles, Colsons, and Calverts
worked for Major Robert Mumford of Brunswick County, Virginia, and with
Thomas Whitmel. MAJOR Mumford was a large land owner speculator and the
descendent of an Indian Trading family. The Mumfords had traded
alongside men like Abraham Wood, Benjamin Harrison, Robert Bolling,
William Byrd I, Peter Poythress and Robert Hicks since the late 1600's."
42

This is talking about Halifax County North Carolina and a footnote to
the latter is
42 Traders who later owned land in the county included Edward Mumford,
Robert Hicks, Benjamin Harrison, Robert Bolling, Peter Poythress and
Richard Kennon. Gay Neale, Ed. Brunswick County, Virginia, 1720-1975
(Richmond: Whittet & Sheperson, 1975)

I just can't figure which one of our guys I come from. Help please.
Who can we eliminate?

Jean Poythress Spille

------------------------------		05/13/1997 5:16:36
Warren Poythress - Screven Co., GAMay 13, 1997 - 10:05 PM, or I should say 2205 hours - Navy time!

Maynard & Patti: -- I have walked over and viewed most all tomb stones,
I believe, in every cemetary in Screven County, but was unable to learn very
much about Warren and also a Carl C. Poythress, Sr. (buried in Newington
Baptist Church Cemetary in Newington).

But reviewing my older records I have a "John Warren", who was probably
the father of the Warren Patti is searching for. This older "John Warren"
was the 5th of 8 children born to a William E. Poythress, Sr. (b.7/11/1833
but also variously shown as 1829; 1831; & d. 12/23/1907; and his wife Martha
J. (?) Poythress (b. 6/4/1841 & d. 12/8/1935), both buried at "North"
Newington Church Cemetary. Please note the "North" - for this church and
cemetery is located about 2 miles out of Newington toward the Savannah River.
I take it that this John Warren probably had a son that he named Warren and
is the Warren Patti is interest in.

I recall my Dad speaking of a Warren and somehow connected Warren and
Carl, both of Newington or near by. My Dad always said they were his cousins
and somehow I had the impression back then that Warren and Carl were
brothers; however now I think they were "1st cousins" in stead. But I don't
have any real information on the younger Warren. But his father's siblings
were: Idella; Thomas Boston; William E. Jr; (John Warren); Robert L.; Gazzie
H.; Bessie: and Willie. I have the b & d dates on several of these folks if
you should want them, actually taken from the grave markers.

The first John Warren married Louisana Hortense Lucas on 1/11/1892, and
she was d/o Robert Ellison and Sarah Redding (Stickland) Lucas of Sreven
County.

Now, one of John Warren's brother - Robert L. Poythress I believe was
the father of Carl C. Poythress, Sr. (b. 12/30/1893 d. 11/29/1974) and his
wife Beatrice E. (b. 10/15/1896 d. 12/29/1986) who are both buried at
"Newington Baptist Church Cemetary located in the town of Newington and
oddly are the only "2" Poythress' buried there! Although there are several
Poythress' buried at "North" Newington Baptist Church Cemetary and also at
McBride Methodist Church Cemetary which is just a little further up the road
form the North Newington Church! This would made Carl and Warren 1st
cousins.

Carl was the son of Robert L. Poythress (b. 1/2/1867 & d. 2/10/1935)
and was married (in 1890) to Evalina "Sweetie" D. Evans (a widow) (b.
4/28/1861 & d. 5/2/1946) (who was first married to James J. Downing). Both
Robert and Evalina are buried at North Newington B.C.Cemetary. Their
children were: Agnes; Ernest Earl Robert L. Jr.; (Carl C.); Wilma and
Lucile.

Carl I remember very well for during the 1930's, he, a very snappy
dresser, always wearing a 'white' coat and/or suit, and tie, even in mid of
summer in GA(!). He had a reputation of being rather "quick with his fists
at times". He always stopped by my Dad's country store when passing by for a
little "snort to stove off snake bites" as they say, especially on his way
back home from Savannah. My Dad and cousin John's Dad, my uncle Hull
Poythress, always said that Carl and Warren were their cousins but I was
never able to connect them.

I later learned that Carl's g-grandfather, the father of William E.
Poythress was born in Maryland so that ruled out any connection to our line -
for Meredith Jr was reported to have been born in GA, but I think that was in
error, maybe born in VA before Meredith, Sr came to GA!

Carl had only one son, I believe, and he living in Savannah now, Carl,
Jr., who I tried to get some of our group to call and get information from
but thus far without success. Guess I'll have to call him myself. By the
way Maynard, I understand he's a USAF Reserve Officer too, that was called up
during Desert Storm, a Col or Maj.Gen. himself so maybe brother David may
know him, if he's USAF. Or maybe he might be USA Reserve, since he was at
the US Army Air Base at Hunter Field in Savannah - I think is where cousin
John said he was serving his active duty. I'll look into that.

Our only connection to the Mock family was through Meredith, Jr first
marrying the "widow" Hester "Hetty/Hettie" (WIlder) Mock, who brought 2
children into the marriage (James Andrew Mock b. 1813; and Grandville B. Mock
b. 1815. Then she and Meredith had George Washington, b. 1819; John White
(my g-grandfather), b. 1821; Henrietta, b. 1823; Sarah Edwards (sometimes
listed as Sarah Elizabeth), b. 1826; and Isaac Edwin, b. 1828.

Later census records however did indicate some Mock families living near
by or at lease down the road a piece from John White in Screven county.

Maynard, you' re right about the great "metropolis" of Newington - must
be at least 150 - 200 folks there, if you include the cemetary crown too!
But Newington is considerably larger even than "Oliver" for if you should
sneeze driving down GA State Rt 17 you'll completely miss Oliver. There is
a good size Baptist Church and cemetary there that I've walked through. No
Poythress' found, however. They not only don't have a caution light at
Oliver, man - they don't even have a stop sign there either!

Remember, Screven County was carved out from Effingham and Burke
counties along the Savannah River in the early 1800's, I think it was. We
know Meredith purchased land in Screven county in 1802 and was living in
Screven in 1803!

I'll check out the record sheet you're sending Maynard and if I can add
anything further to the above I'll be glad to do so.

Patti, I hope this might be helpful for I'm only sort of reading
betweens the lines as to what you're looking for.

The best to all the family, so take care cousins!

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.com -- Bud Poythress)

------------------------------		05/13/1997 5:20:06
Re: Peter PoythressRandy Jones> One of who was Elizabeth, born 1732 and married her first cousin Peter
> Poythress.

Craig R. Scott (willowbend@mediasoft.net) indicated earlier
Elizabeth, dau of Richard & Ann (Poythress) Bland m. William Bland. Is
this an error, or did she marry two brothers as was common?

- Randy Jones

------------------------------		05/13/1997 6:27:40
Re: Peter PoythressRandy JonesOn Wed, 14 May 1997, Randy Jones wrote:

> > One of who was Elizabeth, born 1732 and married her first cousin Peter
> > Poythress.
>
> Craig R. Scott (willowbend@mediasoft.net) indicated earlier
> Elizabeth, dau of Richard & Ann (Poythress) Bland m. William Bland. Is
> this an error, or did she marry two brothers as was common?

Meant to say William Poythress, not William Bland. It's getting tooooo
late!

Randy Jones

------------------------------		05/13/1997 6:32:51
The Rev. Francis PoythressFor Jean P. Spille, et al. Are you sure you are ready for this? No
connection has been found that would indicate the parents of this particular
Francis. Until then, one must assume he is just to be "collected" until we
find a place to put him. He died a batchelor.

The earliest work quoted below is written in the romantic and fanciful
language of it's time.

From "The History of Methodism in Kentucky", Author: The Rev. A. H. Redford,
D. D
published 1870 by Southern Methodist Publishing House, Nashville, Tennessee

"He (Francis) was a Virginian of large estate, but of dissipated habits in
his youth. The conversations and rebukes of a lady in high social position
arrested him in his perilous course. He returned from her home confounded,
penitent, and determined to reform his morals. He betook himself to his
neglected Bible, and soon saw that his only effectual reformation could be by
a religious life."

"he found purification and peace about the year 1772"

"In 1775, he began his travels, under the authority of a Quarterly Meeting of
Brunswick Circuit, and, the present year, appears for the first time on the
roll of the conference"

"Thus, before the arrival of the Methodist itinerants in Virginia, he had
become an evangelist: when they appeared, he learned with delight their
doctrines and methods of labor, and , joining them, became a giant in their
ranks".

"The Rev. Thomas Scott, a contemporary, as well as the intimate friend of Mr.
Poythress, says: 'he was, if we rightly remember, about five feet eight or
nine inches in height, and heavily built. His muscles were large, and when
in the prime of life, we presume he was a man of more than ordinary muscular
strength. He dressed plain and neat. When we first saw him, we suppose he
had passed his sixtieth year. His muscles were quite flaccid, eyes sunken in
his head......inclining to melancholy.

.....The last time we saw him, was in the winter of 1800. The balance of his
mind was lost and his body lay a complete wreck. We are not aware that any
heriditary trait existed, which in it's ultimate range dethroned his reason;
but we can readily imagine that the seeds of that dreadful malady were sown
in his system by the constant exposure and suffering during the war of the
Revolution, and the twelve years he traveled and preached in the then almost
wilderness of the west. Among the....pioneers of Methodism in Kentucky and
Tennessee in the year 1788, the name of Francis Poythress stands preimminent.

In devoting so much space to Francis Poythress, we have done so, because he
was more intimately identified with the rise and progress of Methodism in
Kentucky than any other minister.

Methodism in Kentucky, by Roy Hunter Short, one of the Bishops of the United
Methodist Church, published by the Commissions on Archives and History of the
Kentucky Conferences of The United Methodist Church

[note: no publishing date given but we can assume this to be fairly recent
publication since the Methodist Church only in recent years changed it's name
to "United" Methodist Church]

"Another prominent figure of the earliest days in Kentucky Methodism was
Francis Poythress. He was a Virginian, coming from a wealthy family. In
1788 he was brought to Kentucky and placed in charge of the work. He
remained in charge until 1797 , was appointed elsewhere for two years, and
then returned in 1799 for one more year of service. Following this he broke
down physically and mentally, and finally died insane at the home of a sister
in Jessamine County [KY]. At one time Asbury nominated him for Bishop but
the nomination was rejected by the conference.

The Encyclopedia of World Methodism, published by The United Methodist
Publishing House. [no date given but again we can assume recency by use of
the
name "United"]

"Bethel Academy [established by F. P.] was established in 1790 in the bend of
the Kentucky River about three miles from what is now Wilmore, Ky., and it
flourished
as a Methodist school until 1803."

[MP comment: given service in the Revolutionary War and a "wealth family" as
clues, I think we will eventually be able to place this Francis with some
degree of accuracy. It is likely he is of the line of Francis(2) since it
appears that Francis was seldom, if ever, a given name in the John Poythress
line.]

Best,

Maynard

------------------------------		05/13/1997 12:11:15
Re: Warren County, GA - Welsh?Wow! Bud, you got more typing energy than I to put that whole magilla on the
screen. Nice going. After my long winded expose of Mr. Downing aren't we
about ready to scuttle him? (get that Navy talk, will you,...and from a guy
who only fishes out of a canoe).

Seriously, every where I have turned for past 20 years or so the guy gets
discredited by most everybody. I don't even quote him any more.

What do you think?

------------------------------		05/14/1997 3:44:47
Re: Peter PoythressJulian P. BellJean, I'm going to retype what I wrote to Wayne re: his message to me.
I'd like to see how it fits (if at all) with what Wayne and Judy wrote.

My Elizabeth (Bland?) Poythress was apparentl;y born in 1759 in VA. She
died August 6, 1806 having married (1778, Prince George County) one
William Mayo who was born September 26, 1757 at Powhattan, Cumberland
County, VA. He died on August 12, 1837 in Richmond. Their daughter,
Ann(e) Mayo married General Lawrence Taliaferro Dade, War of 1812
veteran and legislator who died in Owensboro, KY. Daughter Mary Jackson
Dade married Daniel McCarty Fitzhugh Thornton, my maternal great great
grandfather. back to Mayo / Poythress, I have no information on either of
their parents. Much of the information I do have came from a chart made
many years ago tht has much less detail than what I'd like.

Do you have anything, Jean (or any eavesdrippers), that can fill out the
sparce info I have. e.g., other family members, etc. Thanks for being there.

> wayne scruggs wrote:
> Peter Poythress - The Peter Poythress who was sent to negotiate with
> the Tuscarora Indians
> in 1711 was the son of John Poythress the second. John Poythress Jr. was
> married to Christian Peebles, a widow of Capt. David Peebles.John
> Poythress the second was the son of Francis Poythress the first. Peter
> married anne(last name could not be deciphered.)Peter and Anne had one
> daughter named Anne Poythress. She was born 12-13-1712 and died
> 4-9-1758. She married Richard Bland of "Jordans" and had 12 children.
> One of who was Elizabeth, born 1732 and married her first cousin Peter
> Poythress. Francis Poythress the 1st is the immigrant Francis we hear
> about. There was no record of Peter's death.Peter's wife Anne was also a
> widow.Let me know if we are on the right track and I will dig for some
> more.
>
> Let me know if we are on the right track and I will dig for some
> > more.
> > Judy
>
> Dear Judy and the list(at last a home).,


------------------------------		05/14/1997 4:06:16
5/14/97 - KizziahCharles NealCaroline,

One thing that may or may not help on tracking down info on your Kissiah
Poythress: I learned during our recent trip to Alabama, Florida, & Georgia
that one current member of the Tuscaloosa (Alabama) Genealogical Society's
Morning Group has the SURNAME of Kizziah. She is researching Kizziah,
Childress, Jennings, Maddox, Moore, Norris, Ray, & Weaver. If you think
that contacting her might help you, send me (directly to me) an Email
message & I will send her name & address directly to you, at whatever your
Email address currently is.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

------------------------------


05/14/1997 4:45:46
Re: Peter PoythressTIMSHi folks,

I've already put this query on our Web page -- along with a response by me.
I'm happy to add additional items to the response -- if you'll indicate a
willingness to have me do so. Keep in mind that the reason I posted the
info is so we have a common base for discussion. If there are ways for me
to make this more useful, please let me know.

Best,

Al

----------
> From: P. Bell
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Peter Poythress
> Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 12:06 PM
>
> Jean, I'm going to retype what I wrote to Wayne re: his message to me.
> I'd like to see how it fits (if at all) with what Wayne and Judy wrote.
>
> My Elizabeth (Bland?) Poythress was apparentl;y born in 1759 in VA. She
> died August 6, 1806 having married (1778, Prince George County) one
> William Mayo who was born September 26, 1757 at Powhattan, Cumberland
> County, VA. He died on August 12, 1837 in Richmond. Their daughter,
> Ann(e) Mayo married General Lawrence Taliaferro Dade, War of 1812
> veteran and legislator who died in Owensboro, KY. Daughter Mary Jackson
> Dade married Daniel McCarty Fitzhugh Thornton, my maternal great great
> grandfather. back to Mayo / Poythress, I have no information on either
of
> their parents. Much of the information I do have came from a chart made
> many years ago tht has much less detail than what I'd like.
>
> Do you have anything, Jean (or any eavesdrippers), that can fill out the
> sparce info I have. e.g., other family members, etc. Thanks for being
there.
>
> > wayne scruggs wrote:
> > Peter Poythress - The Peter Poythress who was sent to negotiate with

> > the Tuscarora Indians
> > in 1711 was the son of John Poythress the second. John Poythress Jr.
was
> > married to Christian Peebles, a widow of Capt. David Peebles.John
> > Poythress the second was the son of Francis Poythress the first. Peter
> > married anne(last name could not be deciphered.)Peter and Anne had one
> > daughter named Anne Poythress. She was born 12-13-1712 and died
> > 4-9-1758. She married Richard Bland of "Jordans" and had 12 children.
> > One of who was Elizabeth, born 1732 and married her first cousin Peter
> > Poythress. Francis Poythress the 1st is the immigrant Francis we hear
> > about. There was no record of Peter's death.Peter's wife Anne was also
a
> > widow.Let me know if we are on the right track and I will dig for some
> > more.
> >
> > Let me know if we are on the right track and I will dig for some
> > > more.
> > > Judy
> >
> > Dear Judy and the list(at last a home).,
>

------------------------------		05/14/1997 5:31:12
RESPONDING TO MESSAGES -- A NEW TWISTTIMSPoythress List,

Our membership is growing rapidly -- now back over 20 and climbing. Thanks
to all the recent sign-ups.

For the most part, this new listserver will function much like the old
system. There are some differences worth noting:

1. When you reply to a message posted from a list member it DOES NOT
automatically go to the entire list. This is just the opposite of the old
MAISER setup. If you want your response to go to everyone on the list you
must "REPLY TO ALL" for it to go back out to everyone. Actually it will go
to the sender and the rest of the list.

Why the difference? I'm told this helps prevent private responses being
broadcast by accident. Makes sense to me.

So, before you hit send, please check to see that both the POYTHRESS-L
address and the original message sender's address shows up in the address.
The system is smart enough NOT to send two copies of the message to the
original sender.

2. As the list-owner I have a wonderful secure web page where I can do
list management chores very quickly. This means I can add new members very
easily. Same is true for unsubscribing. I will send out a commands post
with instructions, etc.

In general, this server is much much faster than the old MAISER system.
However, there is something of a gold rush to the rootsweb server now in
progress. I think we were one of the very first to make the switch.

Enough techno babble...

Any questions, just ask... I'm delighted to help as best I can.

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/14/1997 5:34:04
Jones, Welsh, Warren Co., GaJean SpilleSubject:
Re: Warren County, Georgia
Date:
Wed, 14 May 1997 23:37:16 -0400
From:
Jean Spille
Reply-To:
spillej@esper.com
To:
VKRatliff@aol.com
References:
1

VKRatliff@aol.com wrote:
>
> Warren County Deed Book "D", 1813-1817
>
> Page 178
>
> 1st December 1812 Thomas H. Kendall, Sheriff of Warren County to Joseph
> Paythrop (?) of Warren County at the suit of William Heath and others
> against Henry Jones, did lately seize eighty two acres of land as the
> property of said Henry Jones. Joseph Paythrop (?) being the highest bidder
> and was knocked off to him at the price or sum of one hundred and thirty
> dollars and twenty five cents.
> Wit.: Presley Spinks and Arch. Flewellin. Rec. 14th August, 1815.
>

Here I go again, but Maynard....Jones is the Surname of one of my
Indian
Traders. In fact Peter Jones of Prince George Co. went along with
William Byrd II to survey property in the area of the Roanoke River.

I quote from the article: "James Logan Colbert of the Chickasaws: The
Man and the Myth", by Richard Colbert, NORTH CAROLINA GENEALOGICAL
SOCIETY JOURNAL, May 94:

"William Williams, a former owner mentioned in the above sale, had
traded with the Chickasaw Nations since the early 1720's. PETER
JONES
had accompanied Joseph Colson, Robert Hicks, Major Mumford, and
William
Byrd II during the survey of "Eden" (see below)"

"Additional information on James Logan comes from F. B. Kegley in his
book KEGLEY'S VIRGINIA FRONTIER. In it he describes some of the
earliest settlers on 'the southwest frontier below the mountains' in
Virginia.
'On the south side of the James below the mountains the frontier at
this
time was represented by the Welsh settlement on the Meherrin: Col.
Byrd
's improvements on the Roanoke above Sandy Creek, including the three
charming islands, Sapponi, Occaneeche and Totero; Major Munfords
Quarter near-by; Col. Byrd's Land of Eden on the Dan, and Major Mayo's
Survey adjoing; Richard and William Kennon's grant on Cub Creek which
supplied farmsteads for John Caldwell's Presbytrian Colony."

So< Jean what is your point? Well, Migrations....This article
explains
the migrations of different Indian traders and their families. One of
the places they migrated to was to the Warren County Georgia Area.
Could this Poythress be one of those guys. Could he have lived
earlier
in the Roanoke River area mentioned above. Welsh-Jones-Fewellen.
Could
it be one my tri-racial guys???....HUH HUH could it? Down there in
Georgia

Jean

------------------------------		05/14/1997 5:41:00
Jones PoythressJean SpilleJust Pulling on that Jones Poythress thread some more. Al posted this
back in March.

Jean

PETER POYTHRESS (PRINCE GEORGE CO.) SELLING PROPERTY IN BRUNSWICK
CO.

This Indenture made this twenty fourth Day of March 1774 BETWEEN Peter
Poythrefs of the County of Prince George of the one part and
Christopher
Haskins of the County of Brunswick of the other part . . . for and in
consideration of the sum of nine pounds . . . doth grant bargain and
sell
alien and confirm unto the said Christopher Haskins . . . six acres of
land . . . lying & being on Nottoway River and in the aforesaid County
of
Brunswick and bounded as followeth (to wit)
BEGINNING on the said Nottoway River from thence along a line of
marked
trees on the said Christopher Haskins's line to the Rockey Run thence
down
the said run to the said Nottoway River thence up the said river to
the
BEGINNING . . . Signed by Peter Poythrefs and witnessed by
William Jones, Benjam. Jones, Robert Bullington, and Drury Mathis.
MEMORANDUM livery and sezen [sic] of the within mentioned land and
premises
is hereby acknowledged to be made . . .

Signed by Peter Poythrefs and witnessed by William Jones, Benj. Jones,
Robert Bullington, and Drury Mathis. Brunwick County Court July the
26th
1790. This Indenture & Memorandum endorsed was proved by the oath of
Wm.
Jones,
a witness thereto and having been proved on the 23rd Day of April 1787
by the
oath of Benj. Jones also a witness thereto and on the 23rd Day of
November 1785 by the oath of Drury Mathis also a witness thereto the
same is ordered to be recorded. Deed Book 14, page 612.

------------------------------		05/14/1997 6:49:22
Re: indian tradersTIMSJean and List,

I don't know if this helps very much. To be honest, I'm sorta lost on the
Jones connections to Georgia. Then again, I've been hard pressed to focus
on real genealogical research for the past few days. Keep plugging and
I'll try and catch-up.

The following is interesting, even if it doesn't prove important:

The town (Petersburg) derives its name from Peter Jones, who opened a
trading establishment with the Indians at an early day a few rods west of
what is now the juncture of Sycamore and Old streets. The place was called
Peter's Point. This Peter Jones was one of the first vestrymen of Bristol
Parish. He was a fellow-traveller of Col. Byrd in 1733, in a journey to
Roanoke, when the idea of Petersburg and Richmond was conceived. Byrd says
in his journal of that trip "When we got home we laid the foundations of
two great cities, one at Shocco, to be called Richmond; and the other at
the point of Appomattox river, to be called Petersburg. ... Major Mayo
offered to lay them off into lots without fee.

History of Bristol Parish, Philip Slaughter, 1879, p. 19. (reprinted, 1994,
Southern Historical Press, Inc.)

Al Tims
----------
> From: Jean Spille
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: indian traders
> Date: Thursday, May 15, 1997 12:22 AM
>
> I have been going through my archives and found this from the
> Melungeon list. It is talking about the area along the Roanoke River
> I posted about previously. Please note the Bolling reference, not so
> much for
> the Pocahontas connection, but for the appearance of yet another
> Prince George Indian trader in this area of North Carolina.
>
> Jean Poythress Spille
>
> Subject: Occaneechi Neck
> Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 20:50:29 -0400
> From: Jan Morrow
> Reply-To: MELUNGEON@rmgate.pop.indiana.edu
> To: "MELUNGEON genealogy list"
>
> Hi,
>
> Frankie sent an e-mail about some information from the DeMarce files
> that when I read this information on my own copy of the file it
> immediately got my attention. I read a book I guess about fifteen
> years
> ago called "From the Catawba Indians - The People of the River" by
> Douglas Summer Brown. It had some information concerning Occaneechi
> Neck which has always made me extremely curious to find out more about
> this area. Seems like the Robert Bolling who married granddaughter of
> Pocahontas owned acreage near Occaneechi Neck and Bolling descendants
> continued to hold land there. Also there was mention of an Indian
> trading post on Occaneechi Island. There was some heavy duty trading
> with the Catawba Indians to the south. Petersburg was at the head of
> the southwest path. So am very interested in finding out more about
> the
> statement below. Does anyone know anything about Occaneechee and
> where
> it was or is? Also who is Taukchiray and where could this petition be
> found? Anyone know?
>
> She also notes : See Taukchiray's chronology of Saponi migrations in
> Eno-Occaneechee petition for NC state recognition.
>
> Jan Morrow
>
> Researching Bolin, Bolling, Bowling etc.
>
> Jean again: Occaneechee is located near the present day city of
> Clarksville, Va.

------------------------------		05/14/1997 7:05:32
indian tradersJean SpilleI have been going through my archives and found this from the
Melungeon list. It is talking about the area along the Roanoke River
I posted about previously. Please note the Bolling reference, not so
much for
the Pocahontas connection, but for the appearance of yet another
Prince George Indian trader in this area of North Carolina.

Jean Poythress Spille

Subject: Occaneechi Neck
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 20:50:29 -0400
From: Jan Morrow
Reply-To: MELUNGEON@rmgate.pop.indiana.edu
To: "MELUNGEON genealogy list"

Hi,

Frankie sent an e-mail about some information from the DeMarce files
that when I read this information on my own copy of the file it
immediately got my attention. I read a book I guess about fifteen
years
ago called "From the Catawba Indians - The People of the River" by
Douglas Summer Brown. It had some information concerning Occaneechi
Neck which has always made me extremely curious to find out more about
this area. Seems like the Robert Bolling who married granddaughter of
Pocahontas owned acreage near Occaneechi Neck and Bolling descendants
continued to hold land there. Also there was mention of an Indian
trading post on Occaneechi Island. There was some heavy duty trading
with the Catawba Indians to the south. Petersburg was at the head of
the southwest path. So am very interested in finding out more about
the
statement below. Does anyone know anything about Occaneechee and
where
it was or is? Also who is Taukchiray and where could this petition be
found? Anyone know?

She also notes : See Taukchiray's chronology of Saponi migrations in
Eno-Occaneechee petition for NC state recognition.

Jan Morrow

Researching Bolin, Bolling, Bowling etc.

Jean again: Occaneechee is located near the present day city of
Clarksville, Va.

------------------------------		05/14/1997 7:22:35
Re: 5/14/97 - KizziahTIMSCaroline and List,

As I recall (BPN will know much more than I do), it wasn't uncommon for the
surname of allied families, even good friends/neighbors, to be adopted as
the given name in a subsequent generation. Hence we find Cleaton Poythress
(likely from the Cleaton family) and at an earlier time (Poythress
Cleaton). In chasing one Gray Briggs (a business partner of Peter
Poythress) I came to learn that Gray was his mother's surname. I think
this sort of link is what Barbara (aka BPN) had in mind in directing you to
a Kizziah surname researcher. Of course, I might be wrong. I've been
watching for Kizziah -- no luck so far.

It might be a long shot, but Kizziah isn't all that common a name -- at
least I don't think it is.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: CarBurCo@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: 5/14/97 - Kizziah
> Date: Thursday, May 15, 1997 1:26 AM
>
> Thanks Barbara, but I am pretty darn sure her name was PORTIS/PORTHRESS.
That
> is how it is listed every time I see it (except for occasional
deviations) In
> VA it was PORTHRESS. In Tenn., it becamePORTIS. Will, however, save your
> offer. Thanks.
>
> Caroline Burnett Cook

------------------------------		05/14/1997 8:13:28
Re: Warren County, GeorgiaHey Maynard,

For some time I have suspected that POYTHRESS is Welsh, even though there
is only one other Welsh name in MY lineage as far as I know. Perhaps Al will
mention it. I thought it was somewhat irrelevant and unprovable. HOWEVER in
this Georgia information, we see at least two other obviously Welsh names:
JONES and FLEWELLEN. Two generations before my Kisiah P married into my
RANSOM clan, a certain GRISSELLE GWATHMEY also married into the line. (Welsh)
According to Al many of the Poythresses came from a part of England
(Gloucestershire) that is close to Wales,so it would not be unusual for them
to emigrate with people who were Welsh, would it? Just a thought. Opens up
another field of research?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Since the previous paragraph, I have read Al's msg from Pat in England.
Great news on the Welsh and various spellings front! She mentions Hopkins
(Welsh) and Gwent (Welsh spelling) Henllys, Cwmbrwn...Welsh all. These very
strange spellings give rise to all the strange spellings of Poythress??? We
live here in Delaware, very near Bala Cynwyd, Pa...Welsh again. All these Ws
and Ys instead of vowels. Okay, it's a small point, BUT it does speak to
place of origin.

Caroline or is it Cwrlyn?

------------------------------


05/14/1997 8:25:43
Re: 5/14/97 - KizziahThanks Barbara, but I am pretty darn sure her name was PORTIS/PORTHRESS. That
is how it is listed every time I see it (except for occasional deviations) In
VA it was PORTHRESS. In Tenn., it becamePORTIS. Will, however, save your
offer. Thanks.

Caroline Burnett Cook

------------------------------


05/14/1997 8:26:56
Re: WelshCaroline:

Re: Wales

Yep, we have long, long, long thought that. Some guy named John Downing (an
AP "stringer") was writing a genealogy column a few years back (the 60's I
believe...I guess thats more than a few) and a whole article got printed in
Atlanta Constitution on the name Poythress.

Mr. Downing allowed:

1. "The Welsh surnames Poythress, Pothero, Pothres, Poythress (sic
duplication),
Poythriss, Prothero, Prethroe, Prytherch, etc. were once Welsh nicknames
Rhydric and Rhydderch, Ruane in Ireland, and Rowan in Scotland. The meaning
is "reddish-
brown) in the sense of hair or complextion."

2. Mr. Downing goes on to the effect that the name was generated ap Ryhdderch
to
Pyhydderch to Poythress. The move from one to two is obvious and typical in
the evolution of Welsh names...drop the "a" out of the patronymic "ap" and
you're there.
The move from two to three took some doing.

3. "The first recording of the name found in Wales was that of the bishop of
St. David's in 961 who bore the single name Rhydderch."

4. "In Virginia, twenty or more land grants were obtained by people with the
surnames in five counties: In Charles City by Pothress, Poytheress,
Poythers, Poythres, Poythris, and Poytries, in Prince George County by
Pothress, Poythress, Poythhress, Poythris, and Poythriss, in Brunswick County
by one Poythress, in Isle of Wight County by one Pothres and Poythress and in
Surry County by one Pothress and two Poythress. These grants covered a
period between 1635 and 1728."

5. The above surnames were only found in Georgia, North Carolina, and
Virginia in the period 1782-1800.

Caroline, while we have discounted Mr. Downing on just about every count, I
have not given up my own strong inclination to believe in the Welsh origin.

Here is what I have done with respect to Mr. Downing:

1. First, obviously, was to try to find the guy and ask him some questions.
Absolutely no luck and at the time the company I worked for was a subsidiary
of Time, Inc. so I had some pretty high powered birddogs with some long arms
after him. The guy had just vanished.

2. My mother (who was active in genealogy in 60s) wrote the U. of Cardiff and
several other universities in Wales. To a man, they said Poythress or
anything even close to it was unknown to them. (That did not say to me that
Poythress wasn't of Welsh origin, it just said they didn't recognize it in
it's present form).

3. The Prothero folks (mentioned in the article in the same breath with
Poythress and Prothero is proven Welsh) are fairly active on the net and have
a well established group. I was able to run down the head lady in Wales who
referred me to the head man in the U. S. for Prothero work. He wrote us back
4 or 5 single spaced typed pages saying, in brief, nothing doing. While the
guy was a tad pedantic, he was unquestionably a knowledgable guy and not just
blowing smoke.

4. I plunked out 10 bucks to join the Welsh decendants society of America
just to get their bi-monthly bulletin and run queries in it. I ran queries
at least a half dozen times. The queries were worded to cast the widest
possible net. Drew a blank.

5. the Welsh invented a cultural structure for naming children that was
prevalent into the 19th century in U. S. First male child named for father
of the father, second male child named for the father of the
wife.....etc....and just the opposite for female children. With only a few
exceptions, the Poythress crowd adhered to that structure.

6. I am so confident of a Welsh origin that I have ordered many "all name"
Welsh references, newsletters, disks, etc. No luck.

Bottom line: Mr. Downing should have gone into fiction not journalism.

Still, given that these folks showed up in Gloucestershire....a normal path
out of Wales where folks were starving....I have been pretty much unshaken in
my belief that the name is indeed of Welsh origin...despite the fact that I
can't get to first base with my theory.

Yeah, I know.....and all the Gwathmeys and Flewellens, etc. have driven me
nuts too.

Your assignment Chief Inspector Cook (should you decide to accept it)....is
to establish "the Welsh Connection" by March 1, 1998. Why March 1? Its St.
David's Day!

------------------------------		05/14/1997 11:27:28
Chart from Pat CreweWhile any chart would obviously lay out better as a chart, this one is fairly
easy to present as "text" since off of each generation only one "line" is
followed:

Christopher Poythress (?1684/86 Newent-20 Feb 1739 Bulley)...a butcher
m Alice Hopkins (1683-6 Jun 1775 Hasfield) m. 21 Sep 1708 Gloscester

Children of above:

1. Thomas Poytress (1710 Bulley-11 Apr 1787 Tirley)....a butcher
m. Mary Goodcheap (1725 Hasfield-5 Jul 1785 Tirley) m. 13 May 1746 Tirley

2. William Poythress ( ?-28 Oct 1743)
m. Jane _______ (1700-2 Sep 17212)

Children of Thomas(2) above:

1. Thomas Poytress (1747 Tirley-1803 Tirley) . .....a butcher
m. Anna Roan (1741 Ashelworth-1808 Tirley) m. 4 Nov 1770

2. Sarah Poytress ( 1749- ?)

3. William Poytress (1753 - ?)

4. Nancy Poytress (1759-?)
m. Joseph Strawford m. 30 Nov 1786

Children of Thomas Poytress above:

1. Thomas Poytress (1772-?)

2. Ann Poytress ((1773- ?)

3. Martha Poytress (1774-?) m James Shepherd m. 7 Apr 1799

4. Charles Poytress (1776 Hasfield - 10 Jul 1851 Hasfield).....a farmer
m. Sarah Clarke (1787 Tirley - ?) m. 9 Feb 1807 Tirley

5. William Poytress (1778-1855)

6. James Poytress (1793-1862)

Children of Charles Poytress above:

1. William Pace Poytress (1807 - ?) m. Ellen ______

2. Charles Poytress (1809-1878) m. Ellen Clarke (?-1854) m. 13 Jul 1841

3. Sarah Poytress (Jan 1812-?) m. Thomas Messenger

4. Anne Poytress (1815 Tirley-1883 Cheltenham)
m. John Pates (1818-1891) m. 21 Dec 1838 Cheltenham

5. Elizabeth Poytress (1818 - ?)

6. William Poytress (1821 - ?)

7. Helen/Ellen Poytress (1826 - ?)

8. John Poytress (1826-21 Aug 1888)

9. Mary Poytress

10. Martha Poytress (1828 - 2 Oct 1845)

11. Adelaide Poytress ( 1831 - ?)

12. Henry Poytress (1832-1921)

Notes:

* spellings rendered as on chart. Apparently only Christopher and second son
William retained the spelling with the "h".

* Mrs. or Mrs. Crewe are decended from Anne Poytress in last generation
above.

* I speculate that the relative emphasis placed on above chart will separate
the wheat from the chaff among us with respect to how much of a
one-name-study we are interested in. Reluctantly, count me among the chaff.
Mrs. Crewe's Francis baptised 12 Jul 1609 is the guy I want.

* 3 generations of butchers - interesting.

Maynard Poythress

------------------------------		05/14/1997 11:28:53
Re: WelshTIMSPoythress List,

Maynard's note on the Welch origins arrived at exactly the same time as the
note immediately below. I posted a quick query to Liz Jack -- she came
back with a very interesting response. What a great lady!

Al Tims wrote to Liz Jack:
>How likely might it be for Poythress to be of Welch origin? Perhaps we
are
>too much bound by current political boundaries, and don't have enough
>appreciation for the history of the region. Gee, what a dumb observation
>-- of course this is true. Still, a casual observation would be help.
>
Liz Wrote:
My feeling was that it was based upon the trade involving pewter and I
must admit, it doesn't seem Welsh to me, rather French - but I looked it
up and found:

Pewter,Pewtress: See Peutherer

Peutherer:
Lambert le Peutrer 1311 AD i (Mx); Geoffrey le Peautrer 1319 SRLo;
Thomas Powterer 1472 GildY. AFr peautrer, OFr peautrier 'pewterer'; a
maker of pewter vessels (1348 NED). Pewter, Pewtress and Powter are
metonymic.

So, what do all the abbreviations mean?

Mx = Middlesex
SRLo = Subsidy Rolls, London
GildY = Register of Guild of Corpus Christi in City of York
AFr = Anglo French
OFr = Old French
NED = New English Dictionary, Oxford, 1888-1933

and a metonym is 'a word used in a transferred sense' according to my
dictionary!

So, I think I guessed right!

I must dash - haven't begun to sort out my clothes, etc, yet for the
holiday. Will answer all other comments when I return.

Liz

Elizabeth Jack: ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk
Gloucestershire FHS: http://www.compulink.co.uk/~rd/GENUKI/gfhs.htm

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Welsh
> Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 4:27 PM
> Caroline:
>
> Re: Wales
>
> Yep, we have long, long, long thought that. Some guy named John Downing
(an
> AP "stringer") was writing a genealogy column a few years back (the 60's
I
> believe...I guess thats more than a few) and a whole article got printed
in
> Atlanta Constitution on the name Poythress.
>
> Mr. Downing allowed:
>
> 1. "The Welsh surnames Poythress, Pothero, Pothres, Poythress (sic
> duplication),
> Poythriss, Prothero, Prethroe, Prytherch, etc. were once Welsh nicknames
> Rhydric and Rhydderch, Ruane in Ireland, and Rowan in Scotland. The
meaning
> is "reddish-
> brown) in the sense of hair or complextion."
>
> 2. Mr. Downing goes on to the effect that the name was generated ap
Ryhdderch
> to
> Pyhydderch to Poythress. The move from one to two is obvious and typical
in
> the evolution of Welsh names...drop the "a" out of the patronymic "ap"
and
> you're there.
> The move from two to three took some doing.
>
> 3. "The first recording of the name found in Wales was that of the bishop
of
> St. David's in 961 who bore the single name Rhydderch."
>
> 4. "In Virginia, twenty or more land grants were obtained by people with
the
> surnames in five counties: In Charles City by Pothress, Poytheress,
> Poythers, Poythres, Poythris, and Poytries, in Prince George County by
> Pothress, Poythress, Poythhress, Poythris, and Poythriss, in Brunswick
County
> by one Poythress, in Isle of Wight County by one Pothres and Poythress
and in
> Surry County by one Pothress and two Poythress. These grants covered a
> period between 1635 and 1728."
>
> 5. The above surnames were only found in Georgia, North Carolina, and
> Virginia in the period 1782-1800.
>
>
> Caroline, while we have discounted Mr. Downing on just about every count,
I
> have not given up my own strong inclination to believe in the Welsh
origin.
>
> Here is what I have done with respect to Mr. Downing:
>
> 1. First, obviously, was to try to find the guy and ask him some
questions.
> Absolutely no luck and at the time the company I worked for was a
subsidiary
> of Time, Inc. so I had some pretty high powered birddogs with some long
arms
> after him. The guy had just vanished.
>
> 2. My mother (who was active in genealogy in 60s) wrote the U. of Cardiff
and
> several other universities in Wales. To a man, they said Poythress or
> anything even close to it was unknown to them. (That did not say to me
that
> Poythress wasn't of Welsh origin, it just said they didn't recognize it
in
> it's present form).
>
> 3. The Prothero folks (mentioned in the article in the same breath with
> Poythress and Prothero is proven Welsh) are fairly active on the net and
have
> a well established group. I was able to run down the head lady in Wales
who
> referred me to the head man in the U. S. for Prothero work. He wrote us
back
> 4 or 5 single spaced typed pages saying, in brief, nothing doing. While
the
> guy was a tad pedantic, he was unquestionably a knowledgable guy and not
just
> blowing smoke.
>
> 4. I plunked out 10 bucks to join the Welsh decendants society of America
> just to get their bi-monthly bulletin and run queries in it. I ran
queries
> at least a half dozen times. The queries were worded to cast the widest
> possible net. Drew a blank.
>
> 5. the Welsh invented a cultural structure for naming children that was
> prevalent into the 19th century in U. S. First male child named for
father
> of the father, second male child named for the father of the
> wife.....etc....and just the opposite for female children. With only a
few
> exceptions, the Poythress crowd adhered to that structure.
>
> 6. I am so confident of a Welsh origin that I have ordered many "all
name"
> Welsh references, newsletters, disks, etc. No luck.
>
> Bottom line: Mr. Downing should have gone into fiction not journalism.
>
>
> Still, given that these folks showed up in Gloucestershire....a normal
path
> out of Wales where folks were starving....I have been pretty much
unshaken in
> my belief that the name is indeed of Welsh origin...despite the fact that
I
> can't get to first base with my theory.
>
> Yeah, I know.....and all the Gwathmeys and Flewellens, etc. have driven
me
> nuts too.
>
> Your assignment Chief Inspector Cook (should you decide to accept
it)....is
> to establish "the Welsh Connection" by March 1, 1998. Why March 1? Its
St.
> David's Day!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------		05/14/1997 11:41:02
Re: WelshTIMSPoythress List,

Here I thought Liz Jack's note was going to settle this issue. (see my
previous post). As soon as I hit the send key -- Craig's note comes along
with a case for a French origin for the name. Just to make it clear -- for
those trying to figure out what we're talking about I've again inserted
Liz's comments directly below the French origins explanation.

Perhaps both are accurate. I would be nice to know.

This is a great thread!

Al
----------
> From: Craig R. Scott
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Welsh
> Date: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 5:31 PM
>
> I just wanted to add my two cents since I have it. The tad pedantic
> individual mentioned below is the Treasuer of the Association of
One-Names
> Studies and I as President of said organization have known him for a
while.
> He usually takes four pages to say what most of us would say in a
paragraph,
> but his work is solid. He asked at the NGS Conference last week (for a
> third time in as many months) if we had found the Welsh connection and
> expressed his doubts.
>
> Actually Poythress is French, derived from the concantination of poil
> (meaning hair other than the head, such as beard; pay no attention to the
> fact that the French pronouce it pawl) and tres (meaning very, most, very
> much). So what we are dealing with here is a person who in the 13th, 14th
or
> 15th century had such an huge beard that he was known as le huge beard or
le
> Pawlthress. Since everyone knows that the English and French don't really
> get along and that the English don't speak French they pronounced it as
the
> saw it; poitress or Poythress. Can you see the tongue in my cheek?
>
> Craig
>
> COMPARE WITH

From Liz Jack
My feeling was that it was based upon the trade involving pewter and I
must admit, it doesn't seem Welsh to me, rather French - but I looked it
up and found:

Pewter,Pewtress: See Peutherer

Peutherer:
Lambert le Peutrer 1311 AD i (Mx); Geoffrey le Peautrer 1319 SRLo;
Thomas Powterer 1472 GildY. AFr peautrer, OFr peautrier 'pewterer'; a
maker of pewter vessels (1348 NED). Pewter, Pewtress and Powter are
metonymic.

So, what do all the abbreviations mean?

Mx = Middlesex
SRLo = Subsidy Rolls, London
GildY = Register of Guild of Corpus Christi in City of York
AFr = Anglo French
OFr = Old French
NED = New English Dictionary, Oxford, 1888-1933

and a metonym is 'a word used in a transferred sense' according to my
dictionary!

>
> >3. The Prothero folks (mentioned in the article in the same breath with
> >Poythress and Prothero is proven Welsh) are fairly active on the net and
have
> >a well established group. I was able to run down the head lady in Wales
who
> >referred me to the head man in the U. S. for Prothero work. He wrote us
back
> >4 or 5 single spaced typed pages saying, in brief, nothing doing. While
the
> >guy was a tad pedantic, he was unquestionably a knowledgable guy and not
just
> >blowing smoke.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Craig R. Scott, CGRS
> willowbend@mediasoft.net
>
> visit Willow Bend Books, an Internet Bookstore
> at http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
> comments are always appreciated

------------------------------		05/14/1997 11:48:03
Re: WelshCraig R. ScottI just wanted to add my two cents since I have it. The tad pedantic
individual mentioned below is the Treasuer of the Association of One-Names
Studies and I as President of said organization have known him for a while.
He usually takes four pages to say what most of us would say in a paragraph,
but his work is solid. He asked at the NGS Conference last week (for a
third time in as many months) if we had found the Welsh connection and
expressed his doubts.

Actually Poythress is French, derived from the concantination of poil
(meaning hair other than the head, such as beard; pay no attention to the
fact that the French pronouce it pawl) and tres (meaning very, most, very
much). So what we are dealing with here is a person who in the 13th, 14th or
15th century had such an huge beard that he was known as le huge beard or le
Pawlthress. Since everyone knows that the English and French don't really
get along and that the English don't speak French they pronounced it as the
saw it; poitress or Poythress. Can you see the tongue in my cheek?

Craig

>3. The Prothero folks (mentioned in the article in the same breath with
>Poythress and Prothero is proven Welsh) are fairly active on the net and have
>a well established group. I was able to run down the head lady in Wales who
>referred me to the head man in the U. S. for Prothero work. He wrote us back
>4 or 5 single spaced typed pages saying, in brief, nothing doing. While the
>guy was a tad pedantic, he was unquestionably a knowledgable guy and not just
>blowing smoke.
>
>

Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

visit Willow Bend Books, an Internet Bookstore
at http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
comments are always appreciated

------------------------------		05/14/1997 12:31:12
Re: Warren County, GA - Welsh?Did someone pull my chain? I've believed the Welsh idea all along too!

>Caroline (CarBurCo) -- For some time I have suspected that POYTHRESS
is Welsh.....Etc.

Caroline: you may be interested in the following article that appeared
in the
Atlanta Journal-Constitution several years ago ----------

Quote: ----------

KNOW YOUR NAME

Po(y)thress, Poythers, Prothero, etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
By John Downing
Special to the Journal-Constitution

The Welsh surnames Poythress, Pothero, Pothres, Poytghress, Poythriss,
Prothero, Prethroe, Prytherch, etc. were once Welsh nicknames Rhydric and

Rhydderch, Ruane in Ireland and Rowan in Scotland. The meaning is "reddish-
brown" in the sense of hair or complexion.

The Irish and Scottish Gaelic patronymic prefix meaning "son of" was
mac,
often shortened to mc and m. The Welsh terms were mab and map, often
shortened to ab, ap anda. All of those terms are from an Aryan work meaning
"breed of". As
these terms were shortened, tghey became a part of the name and as a result
constantants and vowels were switched around to suit the local dialect.

The first recording of the name found in Wales was that of the bishop of
St David's in 961 who bore the single name Rhydderch. Rothericus Gryfin is
mentioned
in the Welsh Feudal Rolls in 1303 (the Latin ending -icus denotes "son of").
Rhys
Caradoc Prytherch, chemist, lived in Llanwrtyd around 1550. William
Prythergh, or Protherugh, or Protherough, as he was variously listed, is on
the rolls of Jesus College of Oxford University in 1580-81.

Even Prhydderch was registered in Jesue College in 1617. A notation
following his name states: "Son of Rhydderch Evans of County Carnavon."
Thus after the Welsh custom, he was named Evan ap Rhydderch, having taken
the father's given name as a surname (as did William above). It is evident
that surnames are not heredity in Wales at thisdate. The coalescence of the
descriptive and adjectival prefix with its proper noun has been completed and
a new spelling has resulted.

Some other Welsh spellings were Phytherat, Prythuch, Pluthero, Rotheroe
and Prothroe.

The Welsh surnames Bevan, Blake and Probert was formed in the same
manner: Evan became Bevan, Lake became Blake and Robert became Probert.

Burke's General Armory describes the one Prother, one Prothero, three
Protheroe, two Protheroe, Prytherch or ap Rhydderch and one Prytherch (this
was changed from Rhydderch) -- all different.

In Virginia, twenty or more land grants were obtained by people with the
surnames in five counties: In Charles City by Pothress, Poythreress,
Poythers, Poythres, Poythris and Poytries, in Prince George County by
Pothress, Poythress, Poythhress, Poythris and Poythriss, in Brunswick County
by Poythress, in Isle of Wight County by one Pothres and Poythress and in
Surry County by one Pothress and two Poythresss. These grants covered a
period between 1635 and 1728.

The above surnames were only found in Georgia, North Carolina and
Virginia in the period 1782-1800.

Lieutenant William Poythress of Virginia was in the American Revolution
Army.

Unquote ------------

I hope you may find this interesting, I did. We were in Wales a couple days
in 1993 and visited St David's Church and found the 961 listing of the bishop
Rhydderch!

I do know that we have visited a number of countries, England, Wales,
France, Germany, Italy and a number of others and no wheres did they have
"ANY difficulty" what so ever in pronouncing the name POYTHRESS, and always
pronounced it correctly too. Whereas in the US youhardly find anyone to
pronounce it correctly.

Our best to all,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com)

------------------------------		05/14/1997 12:50:21
Jones for Pete's SakeJean.....Al......get a grip....chasing Jones'es for gosh sakes! If you all
are really determined to chase Jones consider the below:

"On Naming the Welsh"

"Take ten," he said, "and call them RICE,
Take another ten, and call them PRICE;
A hundred more and dub them HUGHES;
Take fifty others, call them PUGHES;
Now ROBERTS name some hundred score;
And WILLIAMS name a legion more;
And call", he moaned in languid tones,
"Call all the other thousands JONES!"

(attributed to the Bishop of Lichfield)

Maynard 😉

------------------------------


05/15/1997 4:56:56
Re: 5/14/97 - KizziahCaroline.....

One of these days you are going to get to Georgia censuses. You will find a
P. lady with "KiziaH" listed under occupation. It 'bout drove me crazy until
the sweet little lady at the next microfilm reader explained: Thats " K. H."
with a bunch of curly-cues. Yes 'mam, but what does K. H. stand for?
"Keeps House" you dummy.

I guess there is even more than I originally expected that we MCP's don't
know about that sort of thing.

------------------------------


05/15/1997 5:09:13
New Look For Poythress Web PageTIMSPoythress List,

Our web page has a new look and will soon have a new linking structure.
When you get a chance, take a peek and give me your feedback. I can go
back to the old look if the new one doesn't appeal. This is OUR page, so
don't be shy about saying what you think and telling me what would be most
useful to you. I'm not going to do fancy tables, frames and flashing
icons. I'm hoping for a functionally efficient, but dignified page design.

I've got a backlog of things to add, but I need lots of help on things like
annotated references. I'd love to have a description of key reference
materials so that it is easier for us (and new members) to know what is out
there. Remember, the page is suppose to support our discussions and the
exchange of information. We're not to the point of representing anything
close to a finished product.

Once again, the link is

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

------------------------------		05/15/1997 6:08:37
Re: 5/14/97 - KizziahAl,

Thanks you could be right about Kesiah (whom my Church Library says was
traditionally the name of one of Job's daughters). Still, it could be a last
name. Let me know if you find it. I did see her name written as Christina
Keziah Porthress in one place. In that case, it COULD have been a last name.

The main thing is to find the Portice, Porthress, Portes parents of K. and
the boys
BENJAMIN C AND ROBERT PORTHRESS whose names were changed to RANSOM in NC by
an act of the legislature. They were born after Keziah and her husband,
Richard RANSOM were married in 1784 in Halifax, but BEFORE the birth of their
eldest son, ATHELSTON Ransom in 1790.

Any help greatly appreciated.

PS I did it again, Al, deleted the webpage address! I promise to make a hard
copy immediately if you will send it again. OR could you not put it under
your signature so we will all be reminded?

Thanks again...heavy fingered Caroline

------------------------------		05/15/1997 7:33:49
THWEATT ??StarrHello POYTHRESS researchers,
While we are still on the Welch thread, what about the
surname THWEATT ? Is that Welch? I saw the surname on
va-roots which reminded me of an early "suggested" connection
to that name in early Henrico Co. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm

------------------------------		05/16/1997 2:36:05
Re: THWEATT ??Randy Jones>On Fri, 16 May 1997, Starr wrote:
>
> Hello POYTHRESS researchers,
> While we are still on the Welch thread, what about the
> surname THWEATT ? Is that Welch? I saw the surname on
> va-roots which reminded me of an early "suggested" connection
> to that name in early Henrico Co. Linda

The Thweatts were neighbors of the Poythresses in Prince George and
Dinwiddie Counties,VA. James Thweatt, immigrant, settled in Charles City
Co.,VA c.1659. The Thweatt name has almost as many variations as
Poythress, and it has evolved in the South today to Threatt,Threet, and
Thweet. The name was originally old English "Thwaite" which means "forest
clearing". The family is thought to be Norse in origin, and had no known
Welsh connection.

There is a Thweatt website at: www.charweb.org/gen/thweatt/welcome.html.
There appears to be no direct connection between the Thweatt and
Poythress families, although they are closely allied through the early
Peterson and Randolph families.

- Randy Jones

------------------------------		05/16/1997 2:47:01
Re: THWEATT ??Randy Jones>On Fri, 16 May 1997 Jbv@aol.com wrote:
>
> Thweat, Threeweeks, Threewitts...same name?
> jbv

The latter two are not known variations.

- Randy Jones

------------------------------		05/16/1997 2:48:25
[Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: rootsnet.com: host not found)]Jean Spille05/16/1997 3:42:02
Geneology - Elizabeth Bland (fwd)Randy JonesCan anyone help Kevin Erwin?

******************************************************************
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 19:35:07 -0500
From: R. Kevin Erwin
To: rjones@charweb.org
Subject: Geneology - Elizabeth Bland

I don't think the Elizabeth Bland (daughter of Richard Bland and Elizabeth
Randolph) on your chart is the one I'm looking for, but I am not sure. The
Elizabeth Bland I'm looking for married Robert Poythress and had a daughter
Tabitha Poythress b. 1725 who married Henry Randolph, IV (grandson of Ann
Isham who is the sister of the Mary Isham on your chart). The Elizabeth
Bland I am looking for was in Henrico County Virginia, but I do not know
her parents (the info I am looking for). Can you shed any light? P.S. I
see your middle name is Randolph. Maybe we're related.

Thanks for any help you can give,
Kelli

------------------------------		05/16/1997 4:10:09
Re: THWEATT ??TIMSJbv@aol.com wrote:
>
> Thweat, Threeweeks, Threewitts...same name?
> jbv

Gah!

This is a real blast from the past. I had a teacher in high school
named Mrs. Threewitts. 1960. Lord she was from Surry County,
Virginia. Tommy Croce and I laughed so loudly in Applied Science that
she put me in the storage room to restore order.

Jean Poythress Spille

----------
> From: Jbv@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: THWEATT ??
> Date: Friday, May 16, 1997 12:32 PM
>
> Thweat, Threeweeks, Threewitts...same name?
> jbv

------------------------------		05/16/1997 4:19:43
Re: THWEATT ??Thweat, Threeweeks, Threewitts...same name?
jbv

------------------------------


05/16/1997 7:32:56
Fw: 5/14/97 - KizziahTIMS----------
> From: CarBurCo@aol.com
> To: atims@minn.net
> Subject: Re: 5/14/97 - Kizziah
> Date: Friday, May 16, 1997 2:11 PM
>
> Dear Al and Poythresses:
>
> Here's everything I HAVE:
>
> My ancestor,
> COL. RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM (1752Isle of Wight Co. Va -1827Murphreesboro,
Tn
> (Rutherford County)
> married (1784, Halifax NC?VA?)
> KIZIAH PORTIS (sic)b. 1763 - d.10 Oct, 1841
>
> I have no record of Kiziah's parentage. In one of the Ransom records her
name
> is recorded as Christina Kiziah PORTRESS. In another place Keziah
PORTRICE.
> Their Children:
> Athelston Ransom b1790 m. Miss Clark
> *JOHN A. RANSOM 1792-1849 m. Elizabeth Bowman(my ancestors)
> Henry D. Ransom b. 1796 m. Juda Maynor
> Lemuel Ransom b. 1800 m. Miss Comer
> Alfred Ransom (twin) b. 1802 m. Sallie Snell
> Richard Ransom (twin) b. 1802 m. Elizabeth Snell
> William K. Ransom b. 1812
>
> FACT: two older sons were listed for Kiziah Portis and Richard Ransom:
> Robert Ransom b. 1786
> Benjamin C. Ransom b. 1788
>
> HOWEVER: in doing some Ransom research, Dr. Robt. Ransom of
Murphreesboro,
> Tenn. (not online, but a good researcher) found in the Library of NC that
the
> state Legislature of NC had passed a bill to change the names of two
> children:
>
> ROBERT PORTRESS and
> BENJAMIN C. PORTRESS(their spelling) to RANSOM. The petition was put by
> RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM, Benjamin and Robert. (I have the exact location of
this
> information in my files) I have posted that information before. It can
also
> be found on Mike Ransom's homepage under SOUTHERN RANSOMS:
> (http://www.peak.org/~mransom/ransom.html.)
>
> WHY should the POYTHRESSES be interested? Well, if these men were really
> POYTHRESSES, they add a whole new dimension to this list. They both had
many
> children and descendants all over the country...calling themselves
Ransoms,
> but they could be interested to find they are POYTHRESSES. Okay Maybe
not.
> OTHER REASON: you could get ME out of your hair by helping me find
Kiziah's
> parents. But the adoption thing is much more interesting, don't you
think?
>
> It would also be interesting if they were Kiziah's children *by a Mr.
> POYTHRESS (but the RANSOM marriage date is authentic. So she and Richard
had
> been married two years when the first boy was born. Richard Payne Ransom
was
> checked out thoroughly, before AND since the DAR got hold of him.I
thought
> maybe the boys were orphaned and Kiziah and Richard adopted her nephews.
(IF
> I KNEW WHO HER PARENTS AND SIBLINGS WERE,I COULD CLEAR THIS UP)However,
if
> they were Kiziah's real children, their birthdates MUST BE WRONG.
>
> The only OTHER possiblity seems to be that the record of the legislation
to
> change their names is not authentic,which seems unlikely, knowing Dr.
Ransom.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> QUESTION; can anyone suggest a way (by computer) to find out her
parentage?
> If I contact the NC Library, how do I find the correct archive? SPECIFIC
> SUGGESTIONS WELCOME
>
> Al: see what a brick wall I have hit in finding this woman's parents? IT
IS
> VERY HARD TO PUT THIS SIMPLY...BUT if you can edit and simplify, go
ahead. I
> realize the purpose of this list is to expand the POYTHRESS information,
and
> this does not do that.It's just a side issue.
> Thanks for your patience.
>
> Caroline Burnett Cook
>
> *Al: when you suggested Kiziah could be a last name and I put that
together
> with the name Christina which I saw only one place, it occured to me that
she
> could have been married before Ransom to Mr. Portress (if her maiden name
was
> Christina Kiziah) BUT once again, it seems unlikely that the fact would
be
> unknown.
>
>

------------------------------		05/16/1997 8:54:03
William Poythress & Benjamin Poythress -- 1775TIMSPoythress List,

1. I've added a description of a Prince George Co. Court Order involving a
number of the Poythess clan, along with Lucy and John Gordon. If you go to
the web page I'm sure you'll spot it. I'd like your expert opinions about
the "possibility" that more than one Benjamin Poythress is being mentioned.

2. Also "new" today is a text file with a compilation of full deed
descriptions with Poythress names mentioned (some are neighboring lands).
I will post a more complete description of the source, where to find more,
etc. I believe there are lots and lots of clues in these descriptions.
For example, we see the Cleaton family living next door to several
Poythress families in the 1740s. This suggests a much earlier connection
than we previously believed.

3. Several have asked about the wonderful lineart drawning of the old
Blandford church. Yes, it has disappeared from the homepage. I copied
that photo from the History of Bristol Parish book. I don't know that the
publisher would object, but absent permission, I though I should take it
down. I'd love to have a graphic to grace our home page. I also need to
format any graphics I use to be small enough to load quickly -- not
everyone is using high speed modem connections.

4. You'll see that the wills have been moved to their own index page. I'll
likely to do the same thing for other sorts of documents as I get more
on-line. Let me know if this seems like an efficient approach.

5. I would REALLY like some help building up the pre-1700 Poythress
reference sources. It seems to me that we should get all these together in
one place. If you have a reference you can abstract/annotate I'd be very
pleased to have it.

6. I'm adding new materials to the web site every day and expect to be
doing so for some time to come. Check back often and continue to offer me
your feedback.

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/16/1997 11:51:21
George Poythress Will and Queries From Barbara Poythress NealTIMSPoythress List,

Barbara Poythress Neal posts the following observations and queries in
connection with a Will from George Poythress of Jackson Co., FL in 1832.

Bud Poythress -- Note specific question to you.

I have posted the will and the queries to our web page. If you'd like to
jump right to the Wills page -- use this link:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/willpage.html

Look under George Poythress.

If you do not have Web access and would like to have the transcript please
drop me a quick note and I will forward the full text transcription.

This is a wonderful find!

Best,

Al Tims
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

------------------------------		05/17/1997 8:27:30
R. Bolling Batte Trial Sheet For Francis PoythressTIMSPoythress List,

One of the most helpful resources on the early Poythress lines is now up on
our web pages -- thanks to the able transcription by Maynard Poythress. R.
Bolling Batte's sheet isn't complete, but what we do have is very helpful.

I have included a number of notes and observations added by Maynard. Use
the following link if you'd like to jump directly to the document and
Maynard's notes:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/batte.html

Please note: I am going to try to post a chart to accompany this
information. Watch for this in the near future. Also, if you do not have
web access and would like to have this document -- drop me a line and I'll
send you a text file version.

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/17/1997 8:36:07
Barbara Neal's Note & Observations re George PoythressTIMSPoythress List,

My apology for failing to add the following information to my earlier post.
Again, you will find these questions and the transcription on our web
page.

Best,
Al Tims

Message From Barbara Poythress Neal:

Some of you are aware that a brother of Lewis Poythress of Virginia, i.e.
George Poythress, died in Jackson County, Florida (at that time Jackson
County, Territory of Florida) well after making his will (signed on 6 April
1829), around July 1832. William Mauldin, Esqr, who had witnessed it,
swore on 19 July 1832 in Jackson County Territory of Florida that George
signed it in the presence of him and the other 2 witnesses, Robert Ross,
and H.D. Stone.

I offer the following observations/questions after having just tediously
read thru copies that arrived from Salt Lake today, requested when we
returned from there in March: all 11 pages of "Poythress vs. Cheesborough"
from Burke Co., GA's "Equity Records 1834-1852" pp. 77-87 for 1848 (FHL
film # 222,856), where George's will appears as Exhibit A, and where the
lengthy inventory of George's property appears as Exhibit B, all of which
is in the Burke Co Clerk's difficult-to-read handwriting:

- It is stated in the court proceedings by John C. Poythress (who was named
in George's will as his son, and as his executor along with another
executor James W. Exum) that Mary Mandell, "now Mary Cheesborough" (who was
named in George's will as his daughter) is his (John's) half sister.

- It is further stated in the court proceeding, by the way, that Mary's
"maternal uncle" is Alexander L. Lawson, who they finally settled on to be
Trustee for Mary after John C. was getting too feeble to want to do it any
more, which seems to be the cause for this court action.

- It mentions in the inventory and accounting of George's estate, when
listing EXPENSES paid out of the estate, a "Richmond Factory" not further
identified. Richmond County, GA was formed in 1777 (same year as Burke Co
was formed) immediately north of Burke Co. so this could be some factory
in Richmond County, or it could be in Richmond, VA perhaps, or elsewhere.
There does not appear to be (or have been) a Richmond in Florida... Does
this Richmond Factory ring any familiar bell for anyone? Each year for
several years a sum around 60 (pounds?) was paid out to the factory
according to the accounting.

- My main question, especially directed to Bud since I cannot locate the
answer in my stuff from his former researcher Kathy Best, is:
- Did we ever see the will and estate proceedings for Mary
Cheesborough?
- That should state (1) whether or not she had any living heirs to
inherit the estate from her father George; and (2) IF she did not have any
heirs, then HER ESTATE PROCEEDINGS would be where we could find any info
about any children of George's brother Lewis in Virginia: they would have
to then make a search for them, &/or list them, etc. That, of course is a
big IF.
- (My secondary question is Why did it take so long for this to hit
me?)

Presumably Mary died wherever she lived. Thus I have also just combed
through the copies I made in Jackson Co, FL last week of George's entire
estate packet, to see where that may have been. Looks like it was Jackson
Co, FL. She signed some of the receipts for proceeds of the crops of
various years, in Marianna, which is in Jackson County, FL, and others just
in Jackson Co. Wish I had thought of that while I was in the court house
there, and could easily have at least hunted for her estate packet...

One slip of paper in George's estate packet mentions the possibility of her
having children. It is an 1845 "Return of John C. Poythress Executor of
the last will of George Poythress Decd and trustee under the will of the
property of Mary E. Cheeseborough & her children" which then lists the
various years 1841-1844 for which John paid her receipts from the crops.
This of course doesn't let us know if she had any surviving heirs whenever
she died.

BPN

------------------------------		05/17/1997 8:39:44
Bruton Parish PlaqueFor those interested, below is the text of the plaque on the South wall Nave
of Bruton Parish Church, Williamsburg, Va.:

TO THE GLORY OF GOD
AND IN MEMORY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF BURGESSES
WHO, WHILE REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE OF VIRGINIA WORSHIPPED IN THIS PART
OF BRUTON PARISH CHURCH, BUILT BY ORDER OF THE HOUSE IN 1713, AND
PROVIDED WITH PEWS FOR THE GOVERNOR, HIS COUNCIL, AND THE MEMBERS OF THE
HOUSE OF BURGESSES
WITH GRATEFUL DEVOTION, VIRGINIA HERE RECALLS THE MEMORY OF
THE LIFE AND SERVICES OF THAT NOBLE BAND OF PATRIOTS WHO CONSECRATED
THEMSELVES TO THE DEFENSE AND PRESERVATION OF THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS
AND CHARTER LIBERTIES OF THE ENGLISH COLONY IN VIRGINIA. THE OFFSPRING OF
THE CHURCH, AND THE HEIRS OF HER TEACHING, THESE STATESMEN AND WARRIORS
CAME HERE TO FIND CLEARER VISION AND NOBLER COURAGE, AND TO INVOKE
UPON THEIR CAUSE THE BLESSING OF THEIR GOD AND THE GOD OF THEIR FATHERS.
AS THE CHURCH AT JAMESTOWN MINISTERED TO THE MEN WHO FIRST PERMANENTLY
ESTABLISHED ENGLISH CIVILIZATION IN AMERICA, SO BRUTON MINISTERED TO
THOSE WHO, THROUGH THE STATE CONSTITUTION, AND THE DECLARATION OF
RIGHTS, AND THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, BY CONGRESS, HELPED TO
ESTABLISH UPON A FIRM AND LASTING FOUNDATION THE GOVERNMENT OF THE
FEDERAL REPUBLIC.
IN ORDER THAT THE HIGH IDEALS OF THESE VIRGINIA PATRIOTS MAY
BE RECALLED AS A PERENNIAL INSPIRATION TO MEN, THIS PART OF BRUTON
PARISH CHURCH, HALLOWED BY THEIR MEMORY, HAS BEEN STRUCTURALLY PRESERVED
AND RESTORED THROUGH A GIFT FOR THIS PURPOSE.
PRESENTED BY MR. AND MRS. PETER H. MAYO OF
�POWHATAN SEAT�, NEAR RICHMOND, VIRGINIA
IN MEMORY OF THEIR ANCESTORS
JOHN MAYO OF �POWHATAN SEAT�, LEWIS NATHANIEL AND CARTER BURWELL,
PETER POYTHRESS, RICHARD BLAND, JOHN PAGE, ROBERT CARTER, PHILIP LUDWELL
MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL AND OF THE HOUSE OF BURGESSES
AND LAWRENCE TALIAFERRO, COL. OF THE �CULPEPER MINUTE MEN�.

Text of plaque on South Wall Nave
Bruton Parish Church
Williamsburg, Virginia

(all lines are centered but the plaque is wider than AOL's message formal)

------------------------------		05/17/1997 9:18:09
Bill of Sale - Lewis PoythressLewis Poythress to Lewis Y. Poythress and Thomas M. Poythress

September 14, 1845

Know all men by these presents that I Lewis Poythress, Sr. for and
consideration of my natural estimation and love for my two youngest sons
Lewis and Thomas Poythress and in the further consideration of the sum of one
dollar to me in hand paid by them the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged
do give unto my sons above named one tract of land containing by estimation
one hundred and forty acres bounded as follows (virg) by the land of Charles
D. Cleaton, and John Giles and David Poythress, Williamson Rainey Sr.
together with one yoke of oxen, one cow and calf, oxcart, one box of
furniture, forever free from the claim or claims of all and any person
whatsoever upon the condition however that my said sons Lewis and Thomas do
bond themselves to keep me the said Lewis Poythress and my wife Rebecca
Poythress free from want the remainder of our lives from the adversity of the
above named land and other property. In testimony whereof I have here unto
set my hand and seal this 14th day of September 1845.

Lewis Poythress
Lewis Y. Poythress
Thomas M. Poythress

Mecklenburg County
Mr. James M. Harwell and Benj H. Rogers Justices of the peace in the county
aforesaid in the state of Virginia do hereby certify that Lewis Poythress,
Lewis Y. Poythress and Thomas M. Poythress parties to a certain deed bearing
date on the 14th day of September 1844 and hereto ____personally appears
before ____our county aforesaid and acknowledges the same to be their act and
deed and ______to certify the sum acknowledge to the Clerk of the Court of
Mecklenburg in order that the new deed may be recorded. Witness our hand and
seals this 14th day of Sept. 1845.
James M. Harwell JP
Benj H. Rogers JP
Mecklenburg County Clerks Office 18th October 1845
The foregoing bill of sale together with the certificate of acknowledgment
thereon endorsed was this day received in the clerks office aforesaid and
admitted to record.
R B Baptist

Taken from Mecklenburg County, Deed Book 31, 1843-1845
Reel 15, p. 605 Recorded 18 October 1845.

Barbara Wolfe (BPW)

------------------------------		05/18/1997 1:19:36
George Poythress Will TranscriptionAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the full transcription of the George Poythress Will from
Barbara Poythress Neal. You'll also find this -- along with Barbara's
note on our web page.

Al, please post to the LIST, whether or not you also put the text of the
will itself on the Web Page.

Some of you are aware that a brother of Lewis Poythress of Virginia,
i.e.
George Poythress, died in Jackson County, Florida (at that time Jackson
County, Territory of Florida) well after making his will (signed on 6
April
1829), around July 1832. William Mauldin, Esqr, who had witnessed it,
swore on 19 July 1832 in Jackson County Territory of Florida that George
signed it in the presence of him and the other 2 witnesses, Robert Ross,
and H.D. Stone.

I offer the following observations/questions after having just tediously
read thru copies that arrived from Salt Lake today, requested when we
returned from there in March: all 11 pages of "Poythress vs.
Cheesborough"
from Burke Co., GA's "Equity Records 1834-1852" pp. 77-87 for 1848 (FHL
film # 222,856), where George's will appears as Exhibit A, and where the
lengthy inventory of George's property appears as Exhibit B, all of
which
is in the Burke Co Clerk's difficult-to-read handwriting:

- It is stated in the court proceedings by John C. Poythress (who was
named
in George's will as his son, and as his executor along with another
executor James W. Exum) that Mary Mandell, "now Mary Cheesborough" (who
was
named in George's will as his daughter) is his (John's) half sister.

- It is further stated in the court proceeding, by the way, that Mary's
"maternal uncle" is Alexander L. Lawson, who they finally settled on to
be
Trustee for Mary after John C. was getting too feeble to want to do it
any
more, which seems to be the cause for this court action.

- It mentions in the inventory and accounting of George's estate, when
listing EXPENSES paid out of the estate, a "Richmond Factory" not
further
identified. Richmond County, GA was formed in 1777 (same year as Burke
Co
was formed) immediately north of Burke Co. so this could be some
factory
in Richmond County, or it could be in Richmond, VA perhaps, or
elsewhere.
There does not appear to be (or have been) a Richmond in Florida...
Does
this Richmond Factory ring any familiar bell for anyone? Each year for
several years a sum around 60 (pounds?) was paid out to the factory
according to the accounting.

- My main question, especially directed to Bud since I cannot locate the
answer in my stuff from his former researcher Kathy Best, is:
- Did we ever see the will and estate proceedings for Mary
Cheesborough?
- That should state (1) whether or not she had any living heirs
to
inherit the estate from her father George; and (2) IF she did not have
any
heirs, then HER ESTATE PROCEEDINGS would be where we could find any info
about any children of George's brother Lewis in Virginia: they would
have
to then make a search for them, &/or list them, etc. That, of course is
a
big IF.
- (My secondary question is Why did it take so long for this to
hit
me?)

Presumably Mary died wherever she lived. Thus I have also just combed
through the copies I made in Jackson Co, FL last week of George's entire
estate packet, to see where that may have been. Looks like it was
Jackson
Co, FL. She signed some of the receipts for proceeds of the crops of
various years, in Marianna, which is in Jackson County, FL, and others
just
in Jackson Co. Wish I had thought of that while I was in the court
house
there, and could easily have at least hunted for her estate packet...

One slip of paper in George's estate packet mentions the possibility of
her
having children. It is an 1845 "Return of John C. Poythress Executor
of
the last will of George Poythress Decd and trustee under the will of the
property of Mary E. Cheeseborough & her children" which then lists the
various years 1841-1844 for which John paid her receipts from the crops.
This of course doesn't let us know if she had any surviving heirs
whenever
she died.

Transcript of the Will (from the original, signed with all the different
signatures), outside of which says that it was "Recorded in Book E, page
286 & 287 this 19th day of July 1832. H.N. Nowland, Clk."
"Territory of Florida
County of Jackson
In the name of God Amen.
I George Poythress of the Territory and County aforesaid calling to mind
that all men must die and wishing to dispose of my worldly Estate do
make
and ordain this as my last will and Testament in Manner and form
following
to wit
Item 1st I give and bequeath unto my Son John Carter Poythress my tract
of
Land lying and being in the County of Burk in the State of Georgia Known
as
the Rocky Creek Plantation to him and his heirs and assigns forever
Item 2nd I give and bequeath unto John C. Poythress of Burk County in
the
state of Georgia and my friend James W. Exum of Jackson County West
Florida
whom I hereby nominate create and appoint Executors of this my last Will
and Testament in trust as such executors all the remaining part of my
Estate real & Personal both in Law and Equity with all monies and
evidences
of Debts due me to them & their heirs Executors and Administrators, But
upon this special trust and confidence and for the purposes hereinafter
mentioned, That is to say to suffer and permit my daughter Mary
Elizabeth
Mandell receive and use to her sole and separate use free from the
controle
or contracts of her husband or husbands the income and profits of my
said
Estate for and during her natural life. And I do hereby declare that my
said daughter's separate receipt notwithstanding her said coverture
shall
be a sufficient & legal discharge to the said Trustees for the Income of
said property so paid over to her from time to time. And it is further
my
will and desire that should my said daughter have a child or children
living at her death then & in that case I give and bequeath said Estate
Real & Personal herein conveyed to said Child or children and to them
their
heirs and assigns forever -
But if my said daughter depart this life without having a child or
children
living at her death then and in that case it is my will and desire that
my
said Estate real and personal after my daughter's death without children
living go to and I do bequeath the same to such children of my Brother
Lewis of the State of Virginia as may be living at the death of my
Daughter.
I do hereby nominate and appoint my Son John Carter Poythress and my
friend
James W. Exum my Executors to carry this my last will into effect hereby
revoking all former wills made by me -
In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal this
Sixth day of April In the year of our Lord 1829 -- Geo Poythress
Signed Sealed and Executed
In the presence of us who sign
the same in the presence of
the Testator and in the presence
of each other --
Wm. J. Mauldin
Robert Ross
H. D. Stone"

------------------------------		05/18/1997 1:47:25
George Poythress - notes from Bud PoythressTIMSPoythress List,

Below is Bud's reply to Barbara's Neal's query in her George Poythress Will
transcription.
Al Tims
__________________

> Re: -- May 18th, 1997 - My main question, expecially directed to Bud,
since I cannot locate the answer in my stuff from his former researcher
Kathy
Best, is: Did we ever see a will and estate proceedings for Mary
Cheesborough? ----- etc.

Dear Cuz,

I've gone through my files and NO, I do not find where I received or
even seen her actual will. But Kathy did mention it in her letter dated
Feb.
7, 1992, on page 2 and 3 --

In which she wrote -- quote: "The early Burke Co. deeds & Mtgs
were burned but we checked the Index to see if anything of interesting
might
have been re-registeed after the fire. There was nothing on Thomas, or
Meredith. We scanned, briefly, the Grantee Deeds checked. For a while it
appeared that there was an earlier John C., than the John Carter Poythress
we
already knew of, who'd been Trustee of Mrs Mary E. Cheeseboough's estate
(Bk.
10 pg. 49). After seeing another deed (Bk.12, pg 140) it appears that
George Poythress was Mary's Trustee. She was his daughter by his second
wife, who'd earlier been married to Addison Mandell. This last deed, also
noted that George had been residing in FL at his death, and that he'd had a
brother, Liewis, of VA. (More of less confirming what we knew)"....
unquote

Then in the attachments under "Burke County, GA": - Grantee: She
list
Jophn C. Poythress as "former & Late Trustee" for a Mrs Cheeseborough,
dated
May 20, recorded May 22, Bk 10, pg 49. with a footnote as follows:

...quote ....-- "John C. Poythress, suriving Exec. of George
Poythress, late of the Territory (now state) of Florida & Trustee of Mrs
Mary
Cheeseborough, formerly Mrs. Mary Mandell, wife of William B. Cheeseborough
&
children of the said Mary of the 2nd part - George's will provided for his
purchase for Mary - if no children the property went to Children of Lewis
Poytrhress of A (brother of George)."...... unquote.
****************************************************************************
**
*****

I'm not really sure if this is any help, for I don't quite understand
just what Kathy is saying here. I hope you do? But the previous
paragraph
above seems to be indicating that George was directing John C. to purchase
something for Mary?
If you think it important enough, I'll go back to Kathy and ask her to
follow
up on that point. Just let me know.

Another subject on George Poythress: Kathy quoting from
"Information
on Some GA Pioneers: - Maddox, pg 155 (Family Heads 1805 GA) - wrote
"Poythress, George, Burke Co., wife Hettie Carter d/o Alexander. He s/o
Thomas P. Poythress, Martha, Burke Co., widow of Thomas. (The author took
the 1805 land lottery registrants and matched them with statistical
records.)" This is the reference I picked up on for the idea of "George,
Lewis and Meredith" all possibly being brothers.

Regards to all,

Bud (BPoythress @aol.com)

------------------------------		05/18/1997 1:51:26
Re: Bill of Sale - Lewis PoythressBarbara....don't you think we have ourselves yet another Thomas? He is
obviously not old enough to be Meredith's father and/or the same Thomas who
died 1800 in Burke County, Ga....if indeed those two Thomases themselves are
one in the same.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/18/1997 2:54:41
Re: George Poythress - notes from Bud PoythressBud, I love the idea of George, Meredith Sr. , and Lewis being brothers
because it would put just about everything in a neat package. Would even
allow us to tie in that John C. Poythress fellow as son of George and he
(John C.) has been something of a loose end.

But.....don't we have to raise an eyebrow at George leaving a will which
mentions "a" brother Lewis in Va. without mentioning Meredith? To be sure,
he wouldn't HAVE to mention Meredith (for all we know they could have had a
spat and that was why Geo.
moved to Fla. and would be reason enough not to mention him in will). But it
would seem to me to be an assumption where we are leaning against the wind of
probability.

And I also guess all of that would at least be consistent with the
speculation that the father of all 3 of them, Thomas, would be in Burke
County to die c. 1800....and leave a wife named Martha (Patsy) which was the
same name as the Virginia lady married to Virginia's Thomas.

And now Barbara Wolfe has Lewis with sons Lewis and Thomas M. Naming a son
after his grandfather would not be unexpected.

And, Barbara Neal, that "factory in Richmond" is a new one for me but I'd
make it three to one it was Richmond County, Ga. instead of Richmond, Va.
I'll just have to dig into some Richmond County stuff if and when I can get
to GDAH. I frankly have just never looked in Richmond.....and since Sherman
bypassed Augusta and opted to burn down Columbia instead, there is likely to
be some property tax record of some kind left around.

Wow! You folks are digging up (no pun intended) some great stuff...I think
this set of folks needs a "trial chart" all by themselves.

Thanks.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/18/1997 3:18:46
Thomas PoythressTIMSPoythress List,

I think that be combining the information from the newly posted Batte chart
and the deed data pool references we could make some real progress.
Consider the following:

26 John Poythress

m. Mary Batte, daughter of Henry and Mary (Lound) Batte. To
avoid
confusion with his first cousin John Poythress 43 (whose
wife was also named
Mary), this John was usually designated as "Sen." or "Sr."
while cousin John was
designated as "Jun." or "Jr.". In 1720 John Poythress, Sr.
and Mary, his wife,
together with four other couples, the five wives all being
daughters of Henry
Batte, dce’d., join in deed of partition whereby they divide
1200 acres in Prince
George left by the will of Henry Batte to his daughters.
John Poythress, Sr. was
a captain in the militia and he represented Pr. Geo. in the
House of Burgesses in
1723 and 1726. In 1727 as Capt. John Poythress he was
granted 225 acres on
the south side of the Meherrin, which land later fell into
Brunswick County. The
identical land was sold in 1773 by one Thomas Poythress who
may have been a
son or grandson of John Sr.

First entry from the deed data pool descriptions:

Note: this seems to establish that Francis Poythress was the son of Thomas
Poythress.

typ patent
ref C - VPB18p420-421
dat 22Sep1739
to Francis Poythress, Gentleman
con œ16.S10
re 3887a PGCo. on the North side of Butterwood Swamp
!and the Upper side of Cook's branch
!200a part Gtd Sd Francis Poythress by Pat. 28Sep1728
!387a other part Granted his father Thomas Poythress deced
!Patent 9Jul1724 and by Mesne Conveyances the Right and Title
!thereof is become Vested in the said Francis Poythress and
!the residue thereof never before Granted

Now, We also have Mr. John Thomas receiving a land patent for 1000 acres -
4 April, 1671 for the transportation of 20 persons.

Among those transported include:
Jno. Greogory, Henry Neale, John Brigges, Wm. Thurstone, Jno. Carner, Mary
Meriwether, Thomas Dunstone, Anne Gundwile, Jno. Moody, Anne Cooke, Rob.
Thorowgood, Tho, Lawrence, Susan Freeman, THOMAS PORTRIS, Tho. Appleton,
Rich. Brewton, Mary Brussellls, Henry Dod, Mary Cole, Jno. Rosse.

This may be very important since it could suggest that Thomas Poythress did
indeed return from England.

More to Follow,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/18/1997 6:59:31
Land Deed and Bolling BatteJean SpilleDear Poythresses

I have spent the day pouring over land deeds and trying to figure it
all out. Can someone help me "locate myself" In relation to the
present day Emporia(Hicksford), Va., where is Tommahaton Swamp? Where
is Butternut Swamp? I know Blackwater Swamp. A part of it was on my
Grandmothers farm in Prince George. When was Dinwiddie County formed?

Has anyone out there used DEEDMAPPER with any of these land deeds? In
the DEEDMAPPER webpage there are maps of some of this area already in
their database. They are zipfiles and I can't get them. Has anyone
else?

The Bolling Batte information is helpful but I see no mention of any
of the Poythresses that have been located in North Carolina, right
across the border. I fully intended to write Mr. Batte and ask him
that question, but he went and died before I got round to it. Even
had his address. Did any of ya'll get the opportunity to pose
questions to him? Barbara Poythress Wolf has NC guys along with me
and they all have been there for awhile. (At least since 1750 and well
documented)

------------------------------		05/18/1997 8:08:22
Poythress webpageRichard PoythressThank you for informing about this web page and sharing some of the
interesting work that has been performed. I noticed that there is not
much information regarding the Poythress family in Georgia, specifically
Screven County. Although our family has lived in Madera California
since the 1920's, my grandfather, Robert L. Poythress, Jr., was from
Newington Ga., as well as his father and grandfather. I have to
apologize as I have been very lax in sharing or seeking out sources
myself. Anyway, thanks for getting us in the loop. I will enjoy
learning more later.

Robert L. Poythress		05/18/1997 12:11:04
Re: George Poythress - notes from Bud PoythressMorning all!

Responding to Maynard msg of May 18, 1997 21:20:21 EDT

Maynard, I am speculating that our Meredith (Sr) died before George did, as
the reason he was not mentioned in Gereoge's will.

For outside of a few land lotteries, Meredith (Sr) just seemed to disappear
(dropped out of sight so to speak. We have been unable to determine when
and where he died or was buried. I am hoping that at least one of the two
books I've ordered from the Southern Historical Press just might add another
"one of the straws" we've been searching for!

Meredith was Administrator in right of his wife, for the Estate of Benjamin
Mock in 1818 (per Inferior Court Minutes, Bk A, 1811-1829); then the
"Alphabetical Index to GA's 1832 Gold Lottery" had both Meredith, Sr drawing
Lot 1078, 16th Dist., 2 Sect. in Cobb Co., and Meredith, Jr drawing Lot 76 in
3rd Dist., 3rd Sec. of Cobb Co. I believe that is the latest found record of
Meredith Sr. Do you have anything later?
Maybe we had better take a closer look at Cobb County.

The 1850 census listed a Meredith and again in the 1860 census of Screven Co.
a Meredith was shown living with the "Brannen's" but both of these listings
(it seems to me) has to have been Meredith Jr., then they disappear, maybe
moved back to SC(?). These fellows seem to die someplace where they didn't
wantr to be found, I guess.

All for now, haven't had my morning coffee as yet, but I can smell it
brewing.

Take care,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com)

------------------------------		05/19/1997 1:36:13
Re: George & John C. PoythressDirected especially to Barbara Neal & Maynard
Received msgs from you both:

BPN: - Thanks for the copy of George's Will. I guess even back in those days
when one retired, the territory of Florida called! As they say, nothing ever
really changes.

But, doesn't it seem rather obvious that Mary Elizabeth (Mandrell) Cheeseboro
had "NO children" at the time George wrote his will, for had she had a
child/or children he would have named them? Seems he was only covering the
possibility in the event she should become "fruitful at some future time"?

Maynard: - I've always thought John C. was the son of George. That is the
John C. Poythress, b. 9/14/1796 & d. 9/12/1862; married Miss Eloisa (Sp.?)
Amelia Morris on 11/20/1823 in Waynesboro, GA.

Then George comes along and makes it clear in his will that "John C. was his
son."

The only point still bothering me is I have John C. Poythress as "born in VA"
in 1796 whereas I believe Major George was in Burke county long before 1796.
Is this birth date or location in error? Or -- could George have traveled
back & forth and maybe George's first wife (could be the "Hetty Poythress",
reported to be buried in Colonial Park, the old burial ground, in Savannah)
may not have moved from VA to Burke county, GA when George first came south,
and he moved her down later? What do you folks think?

So long folks,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com)

------------------------------		05/19/1997 3:51:09
Re: George notes from Bud & MaynardCharles Neal5/19/97 from BPN, with snips from Maynard & Bud:
(copy sent to Al, in case this method of hitting "Reply" on the laptop
doesn't work for the whole list: You should be able to tell, Al, if you
get 2 copies)
> I'll just have to dig into some Richmond County stuff if and when I can
get to GDAH.
>I frankly have just never looked in Richmond
Maynard, that would be great if you could check it out.

>I think this set of folks needs a "trial chart" all by themselves.
Maynard, I agree; would you have time to work on one?

>Maynard, I am speculating that our Meredith (Sr) died before George did,
as the reason >he was not mentioned in George's will.
Bud, that sounds like a logical possibility. Refresh my memory, please:
Do we have anything other than a hypothesis that would indicate they were
brothers of one another? I'm getting lost in all these folks tonight
(another good reason to have a working Trial Chart, I reckon)

> I am hoping that at least one of the two books I've ordered from the
Southern Historical >Press just might add another "one of the straws" we've
been searching for!
Bud, I don't know which books you've ordered, but you might consider next
time giving your order to Poythress-Cousin Craig Scott. He's one of our
Poythress-L List-members
and a very knowledgeable authority on the military records at the National
Archives, among other subjects. Besides that, I can vouch for him being a
nice guy, and one of these days he MAY even forgive me for having forgotten
once-upon-a-time that he had told me in our first-ever conversation that he
had a Poythress grandmother.

>"Alphabetical Index to GA's 1832 Gold Lottery" had both Meredith, Sr
drawing Lot 1078, >16th Dist., 2 Sect. in Cobb Co., and Meredith, Jr
drawing Lot 76 in 3rd Dist., 3rd Sec. of >Cobb Co. I believe that is the
latest found record of Meredith Sr. Do you have anything >later? Maybe we
had better take a closer look at Cobb County.
Bud, taking a closer look at Cobb County sounds like a great idea to me.
Maybe with any luck at all Maynard can some trip or another to Atlanta have
time to look at Cobb as well as at Richmond Co. Or, was Kathy Best in/near
Atlanta (I forget)?

>doesn't it seem rather obvious that Mary Elizabeth (Mandrell) Cheeseboro
had "NO >children" at the time George wrote his will... Seems he was only
covering the possibility >in the event she should become "fruitful at some
future time"?
Bud, that's correct, but remember she wasn't even married yet when he wrote
the will. It was (and still is) very common for a parent to make such
conditional provisions, especially if Dad wasn't too wild about who she
might have been "keeping company" with at the time.

>John C. Poythress, b. 9/14/1796 & d. 9/12/1862; married Miss Eloisa (Sp.?)
Amelia >Morris on 11/20/1823 in Waynesboro, GA.
Bud, thanks for the vital statistics on John C. Do we know who John C's
chillun were?

> only point still bothering me is I have John C. Poythress as "born in VA"
in 1796 >whereas I believe Major George was in Burke county long before
1796. Is this birth >date or location in error? Or -- could George have
traveled back & forth and maybe >George's first wife (could be the "Hetty
Poythress", reported to be buried in Colonial >Park, the old burial ground,
in Savannah) may not have moved from VA to Burke county, >GA when George
first came south, and he moved her down later?
Remember, Georgia would have been closer to "dangerous Indian territory" in
the estimation of at least some Virginians, so Mama could well have stayed
with her own family until John C was safely delivered.... Or the birth info
on John C could have been wrong, too. Do you know where you got that birth
info about him?

All for tonight, gentlemen! Thanks so much for your input!!

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

------------------------------		05/19/1997 6:15:31
VA Revolutionary War ClaimsVirginia Revolutionary War Land Grant Claims, 1783-1850 (Rejected) by William
Lindsay Hopkins was abstracted from 15 reels of microfilm in the VA State
Library, Richmond, VA. These records often include information about the
veteran, his descendants and affidavits from other living veterans who may
never have asked for either pensions or Bounty Land in their own right.

Land Grants or Bounty Warrants were first offered to men to encourage
enlistments and depended on his rank and length of service.The minimum was
100 acres.

Bounty Warrants were issued as early as 1783 and were still being granted in
1850.

Poythress, Kirby - Soldier - Army - Southampton Cty, VA
William Oney in Southampton Cty, VA on 16 Sep 1839 states that he knew Kirby
Poythress of Southampton Cty, VA who died 25 or 30 years ago. He enlisted in
Southampton Cty, VA under Capt. James Gray and he and William Oney met up at
Yorktown. At his death, Kirby Poythress had children viz Caty, Avy, Sally,
Peggy and one son named Gideon. Gideon Poythress died in Oct. 1838 leaving
children Benjamin, Patsey(Martha), and Ann. Martha Poythress is the wife of
Benjamin Andrews, Ann Poythress is dead without issue and Benjamin Poythress
is not now living.

Poythress, Robert -Captain - Army- Prince George Cty, VA.
Rebeckah Mitchel, aged 72, of Prince George Cty, VA on 11 Dec 1834 states
that Capt. Robert Poythress in 1776 enlisted two of her brothers, John
Livesay and ___Livesay, Benjamin Tackett, John Temple, Thomas Harris, Burwell
Womack, James W. Caltern and Reuben Rives. Robert Poythress was from Prince
George Cty, VA and had only one son. Micajah Webb, aged 75, of Petersburg, VA
on 9 May 1835 states that he served in the war and that Capt. Robert
Poythress died in 1781 near Charleston. William Weaks, aged 70, of Prince
George Cty, VA on 3 Dec 1823 states the same. Polley Poythress of Prince
George Cty, VA on 24 Apr 1835 states that she is the daughter of Robert
Poythress, the reputed son of Capt. Robert Poythress.

***************************************************************

There is a Polly Poythress listed on the VA 1850 census in Prince George.
She is 72 years old and enumerated with a farming family named Leonard.

I had wondered if this Polly was a widow and perhaps living with her
daughter's family at this time, but perhaps she is the daughter of Robert
listed above.

Ay! Barbara (BPW)

------------------------------		05/19/1997 6:18:35
Web Page RedesignTIMSPoythress List,

Once again, I've done an overhaul of our web page. This time I think I
have a structure that will work for us -- at least for now. This one is
cleaner and much better organized. I having some problems getting it to
look the same way in Netscape and Internet Explorer. I shall not digress
into that particular frustration. I'm going to have to fuss with that
problem. In the meantime, the page seems to be functioning okay.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

If you have problems, please do report them to me. I'm behind in getting
information posted, but hope to catch-up as soon as I get the fomat issues
resolved.

Hope you like the new design.

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/19/1997 7:14:29
Re: The Rev. Francis PoythressEspecially for: -- Maynard & Jean P. Spille.

I believe it was Jean and Maynard who were exchanging letters on the good
Methodist Preacher a few days ago.

While reviewing Kathy Best's reports I ran across this reference to a
Mrs Thompson looking for a Rev. Poythress connections!

In The VA Genealogist: -- Vol. 6, No. 3, 1962,

"Pg 142: (620) Poythress. Can anyone tell me the names of the parents
of Francis Poiythress, Elilzabeth (Poythress) Peniston & Susanna
(Poythress) Pryor, brothers and sisters. Francis was a Methodist minister
with Bishop Asbury. He died 1820 at home of Susanna Pryor, 12 miles from
Lexington, KY. (signed: Mrs.J. Frank Thompson, 1204 E. Rollins , COlumbia,
MO)"

This may be another sister (Elizabeth P. Peniston) to the minister that
had not turned up before(?) and may ring someone's bell! Does anyone recall
a Elizabeth Poythress that married a "Peniston"?

So long for now,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com).

------------------------------		05/19/1997 11:26:37
LVA Land Patents in Card CatalogTIMSPoythress List,

We have added all the Poythress land patents and grants in the LVA card
catalog to the web page. We have 40 land references here.

Thanks my parents (Nell & Al, Sr.) for taking on this project for us.

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/20/1997 4:40:15
Francis Poythress -- Rev. War Land BountyTIMSPoythress List,

I have posted three Rev. War bounty warrant descriptions from the LVA.
When time permits -- take a look at these images.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/revwar.html

I hope the next person on the list to visit the LVA will see what actually
exists. I assume these wouldn't be in the card catalog without some
supporting documentation.

Best,

Al Tims
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

------------------------------		05/20/1997 5:53:20
Re: The Rev. Francis PoythressNo, Bud, I don't recall a "Penniston" but their is a guy right here in
Louisville who is a descendant of that Penniston lady and he is bound to have
that.

When I get back to Louisville (Fri.) I'll dig out his name and contact him.

MP

------------------------------


05/20/1997 7:03:47
Re: Bud's TriggerTIMSRE:
> From: BPoythress@aol.com
...... (P.S. But I also had him listed s/o Maj George Poythress too).
However, I don''t have any children listed for John C. and Eloisa (Morris)
Poythress.

Poythress List,

Bud's note triggers something we really should be working on: Military
service records. I'd like to add a military records section to the web
page. We could start with a simple listing of all known service -- say
pre-1900 (that would exclude Bud -- I think ). We've got lots of
threads working that shouldn't be dropped, but if ya'll want to start
flinging things my way I'll start putting together a list. No rush, but
certainly a part of the family history that shouldn't be overlooked.

Best,
Al

----------

------------------------------		05/20/1997 10:58:52
Response to Re: George notes from Bud & MaynardFor Barbara (BPN) and Maynard,

The 2 books I've ordered are: Some Georgia County Records - Vol 8 and ol 9.

Vol 8 - continuing series of misc records of various GA
counties. This vol contains the names of approximately 30,000 persons listed
in these records. Records covered in this vol are: Burke County, Yazoo Land
Fraud Protestors, Membership list of Bark Camp Baptist Church form 1820-1856;
Chatham County, Inventories & Appraisements 1775-1836; Montogomery County,
Taxpayers 1833 & 1834; Murray County, Jurors 1837 &1939; Oglethorpe County,
Estate Papers 1790-1962; Washington County, Marriage Book A, 1828-1852; a
List of enlisted men in the GVA Navy in the year 1861, and Miscellaneous
Bible Records.
Vol 9 - continuing series of misc records of various GA
counties. This vol contains the names of approximately 30,000 persons listed
in these records. Records covered in this volume are: Effingham County,
Tombstone Inscripotions of 6 different cemeteries;l Morgan Conty, Deed Books
A & B , Tax Digest 1810, and Warren County, Deed Books C & D, 1800--1817.

I have no idea whether I'll learn anything from these books or not. They
seem to be gathing "close to home" information (Burke, Chatham and Effingham
counties at a time before Screven county was) so just thought I take a gamble
for once and see.

I requested these book quite some time ago, "pre-published" from the Southern
Historical Press and I believe before I had heard of our Poythress cuz -
Craig Scott. Distribution is supposed to be in late June. Sorry 'bout that!
But I'll certainly keep it in mind for future request, and especially if
these prove of any value.

Dear - Poythress-Cuz Craig, did I make a good and wise decision? Chime in if
you'd care to comment?

Barb, I have no idea where I found the info on John C. Poythress b & d dates.
Seems I've had it all along, or it tutnred up early on and I dotted it down.
Probably from the Screven County History my sister and I purchased (for
about $50 I think it was) on our first "genealogical" trip to Sylvania, and
several Burke & Screven County cemetereies, from the local newspaper office
there. Then at the following Poythress Chatham/Effingham County Reunion, a
first/one time visitor/guest wanted to buy it so we sold it to him. I
thought I'd copied all the info I thought I wanted or would ever need. So
there you have it! Sorry I can't sight some more solid data. (P.S. But I
also had him listed s/o Maj George Poythress too). However, I don''t have
any children listed for John C. and Eloisa (Morris) Poythress.

------------------------------		05/20/1997 11:43:06
Whats the address?W. David SamuelsenWhat is the address for the web site for Batte - Poythress (I am
descendant of John Poythress - Mary Batte through their daughter
Elizabeth Poythress who married John Fitzgerald.) (John's grandson John
Fitzgerald had very large family with lots and lots of descendants
living in Arkansas, California and Oregon.)

W. David Samuelsen

------------------------------


05/21/1997 3:54:28
Re: 3 & 4TIMSBill,

Thanks. The Batte chart is incomplete. The work is ours to complete -- as
best I can tell. Indeed, this is one of the reasons for the research Web
page. We need to keep adding new information until we get to where we can
put that part of the chart together.

List: I just posted some info we received on the Wynne family. Take a
close look. Note the ties in England -- right where we think the Poythress
folks originated. Interesting. We really should be looking more seriously
at the Wynne family.

Also, note the first entry in the deed data pool file. This Francis says
Thomas is his father. Interesting....

Finally, I've redone the query page and added an allied family and a
military records page. I think the new query page setup will make it
easier for us to track these. Keep in mind that these are up here for us
to work. I'm more than happy to add additional ongoing queries if you'll
put together something to define it. I see this section as our "working"
area -- where we build a record. The other sections are for sharing
documentation.

Thanks,

al Tims

----------
> From: William Bridgforth, jr.
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: 3 & 4
> Date: Thursday, May 22, 1997 12:53 AM
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> After checking web page, found Batte chart with Francis I's children
> listed 1,2,3,& 4. However, only 1 & 2 where continued on the chart.
> Where are 3 & 4 ??? I'm descended from Francis II (#4)- I think. Where
> is his chart ?? Do "we" need to start one or is it hidden from us web
> page newbies?
>
> Love that web page - INCREDIBLE WORK, AL !!!!
>
> Bill Bridgforth

------------------------------		05/21/1997 4:27:04
3 & 4William Bridgforth, jr.Hi Guys,

After checking web page, found Batte chart with Francis I's children
listed 1,2,3,& 4. However, only 1 & 2 where continued on the chart.
Where are 3 & 4 ??? I'm descended from Francis II (#4)- I think. Where
is his chart ?? Do "we" need to start one or is it hidden from us web
page newbies?

Love that web page - INCREDIBLE WORK, AL !!!!

Bill Bridgforth

------------------------------		05/21/1997 4:53:29
Re: Whats the address?TIMSW. David,

I'm not aware of a Batte-Poythress web site, but we do have a Poythress
Research Web site at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

The site is only a few weeks old, but growing rapidly and acts as a support
resource for the POYTHRESS-L discussion group. We do not have a GEDCOM up
-- mostly because there is too much still unproven. We've got a great
group on this list. Look at our web and drop us a note.

Thanks,

Al Tims
POYTHRESS-L list owner and webmaster

----------
> From: W. David Samuelsen
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Whats the address?
> Date: Wednesday, May 21, 1997 11:54 PM
>
> What is the address for the web site for Batte - Poythress (I am
> descendant of John Poythress - Mary Batte through their daughter
> Elizabeth Poythress who married John Fitzgerald.) (John's grandson John
> Fitzgerald had very large family with lots and lots of descendants
> living in Arkansas, California and Oregon.)
>
> W. David Samuelsen

------------------------------		05/21/1997 5:14:54
Lawrence Evans and Francis Poythress information sourceTIMSPoythress List,

For those of you interested in the early records of Francis Poythress, you
might want to take a look at the information on this page at our web site.
We hope to get a look at the actual microfilm records described here. To
my knowledge, none of us have ever examined these original records.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/evans.html

FYI, most of the old MAISER lists are only now being moved to RootsWeb --
nearly 1,000 of them! We really did beat the rush. RootsWeb has added a
new server to handle the new lists. I HOPE that all the added traffic
won't slow things down for us -- since we are on the main server. We'll
see. My experience so far is that RootsWeb is giving us much much faster
message flow.

We should be getting an archive file for all our old MAISER messages before
too long.

------------------------------		05/22/1997 5:30:55
George Poythress in Burke CountyJust a few more dates to pin him down with respect to when he was in Burke
County.

1) George Poythress was one of 15 signers of a recommendation to give a
passport to one Mr. George Smith to travel to Louisana. "Acted on 9 March
1804".

2) Louisville [then capitol of Ga.] 13th Novr. 1805
To HIs Excellency the Governor J. Millidge.
Mr. John Thomas a Citizen of this State Intending to remove to the
Mississippi
Territory and wishing to get a passport to pass through the creek nation
of Indians
to Natchez.
we the undernamed Subscribers have known the Said John Thomas for a
number
of years and that he always Supported an honest good fare character.
Wm. Byne
George Poythress
David Thomas
Jas. Bozeman

recommendation for a pass port
Order taken
13th Novr. 1805.

3) A Muster Roll of the first Class of the 2nd Brigade of the 1st Division
Georgia Militia (Burke County) February 5, 1819.....3rd Class, 1st Company:
George Poythress.

4) 1830 Census of Burke County, Georgia: Poythress, John C. (no George
implies he had moved to Fla.?)

5) 6 Apr 1791...Burke County...George Poythress witnessed a deed for sale of
600 acres from John Peter Wagnon of Augusta to Thomas Wagnon of said place.

6) "Early Records of Georgia - Wilkes County, Vols. 1 & 2.
Deed Book GG page 332
Armstrong, James 2 Sept 1791
George Poythress, witness

7) "Petition asking for the pardon of Jeremiah Pitman of Warren County. (The
date of this petition is not definate. It could have been either during the
first term of Gov. Jared Irwin, or his second term of 1806 to 1809)".
Signing petition were 35 "subscribers". One of them was George Poythress.

8) Burke County petition 28th October 1799 to Governor James Jackson to
comute death sentence for one Leonard Nobles...50 "subscribers" among them:
Thomas Poythress
Geo. Poythress
Edward Poythress
Thomas Poythress, Jr.

9) Second Regiment of Georgia Militia, First Division, Second Brigade, Burke
County. Listed: G (eorg) e Poythrass (1796).

10) Slave Owners - 1798; First Assessment District of Burke Co., Georgia
Name of Owner County, Town or City All slaves

of
any age.
George Poythress Waynesboro 4

11) Burke County Registrants - 1805 Georgia Land Lottery
Edward Poythress
Martha Poythress
George Poythress.

12) Burke County: George Poythress and Patsy Poythress apply for
administration of Thomas Poythress estate, Nov. 10, 1800. [note: there are
numerous entries in various legal records with respect to this estate and
it's administration by George and Patsy Poythress].

Number 3) was a mild surprise. I don't know why but I hadn't pictured him
still in Burke/Screven County that late.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/22/1997 11:51:42
The Pocahontas BizJust in case we may be inclined to charitably give the benefit of the doubt
to a bunch of charlatans who don't deserve it, below is a copy of a
"document" one of my Bayne
(my mother's side) distant cousins sent me and for which he had paid real
money. Quote:

14. Princess Pocahontas married Chief Ko-co-um.
13. Princess Pocahontas married John Rolfe.
12. Thomas Rolfe married Jane Pocahontas.
11. Jane Rolfe married Colonel Robert Bolling.
10. John Bolling married Mary Kenton.
9. Penelope Bolling married Christopher Clark.
8. Elizabeth Clark married Joseph Anthony.
7. Mary Anthony married Josiah Carter.
6. Nancy Ann Carter married Charles Denham.
5. Mary Denham married Madison Kilpatrick.
4. Katie Terril Kilpatrick married John Bayne.
3. George Madison Bayne married Katie Mclay McMillian.
2. Cathryn Bayne married Norman Jones Cranford
1. Norman Bayne Cranford.

Dear Mr. Cranford:
I have not disreggarded your letter. I have been confirming your material it
would be good if you would have all the names of the sisters and brothers
,in this same vein you are following the late Edith Bolling the second wife
of President Woodrow Wilson is in this line of descendants. A lot of people
are not aware athat Princess Pocahontas was married to an Indian Chief of her
own blood line before she met and married John Rolfe. Indian marriages took
place early then as in some instantces we stil l hear of marriages up in the
mountain sections and among some tribes as early as 12 and up. if there is
any thing more I can add to this for you, please let us know. Mrs. Minnie
Ha-Ha- Gertrude Custalow is our Historian and census keeper.

Do you have photographs of the Bollings ? I have a booklet that has three
photos of the Bollings in it.
Please excuse the mistakes in this paper. We have the pleasure of a new
electric
typewriter and after the old manually operated on it does tend to run awa y.
Please come and see us when ever you are up this way but with Heritage like
this you should make a special trip to see the decendants of your and our
ancestors.

Sincerely yours,

Chief Curtis L. Custalow, Sr.
(signature)
Minnie=Ha=Ha- Gertrude Custalow,
Historian
(signature)
Princess Denise Whitefeather, Dance
Teacher
(signature).

"Make a special trip....." and no doubt bring more money while you are at
it...and if its enough maybe we'll let you do a whirl around the dance floor
with Princess Denise for a nominal additional fee.

Incredibly enough, a John Bayne of Westmoreland County, Virginia is in my
direct line on my mother's side....I gotta re-examine that line, I really
don't want any of this action. My feeling on the Custalows is that if they
were doing this stuff earnestly but only badly one should not be
condescending.....but if they are doing it for MONEY, they gotta be right or
snickers are appropriate.

If one has to pay for the above think how lucky we are to be fooling around
with the only surname that CAN'T be a Pocahontas descendant. Thought the
list could stand a little light humor on a Friday :).

Maynard

------------------------------		05/23/1997 4:24:36
Re: 3 & 4Bill....I regret to inform you that the Battle chart part "B" is hidden from
us all, saints and sinners alike.

In the upper right hand corner of the 17 x 11 Battle chart (for those who
have one) note the little arrow pointing off into space saying "see Chart
B".....presumably for Francis(2)'s folks. The cruelty joke is there is no
part B.....or at least thats the way I have it from Mrs. Batte.

So.....if you have even a tentative line from yourself down from Francis(2)
that's a skeleton we can start hanging flesh on.....let us hold
it...pullease!

And for any of you others on the list who would like a copy of that Chart
A....I, your humble genealogist, always being prepared as a good scout should
be....made a blue million copies. Just shoot me your snail mail address and a
copy will be winging its way to you pronto....even if you have heretonow been
lurking I'll send it to you and not blow your cover....talk about a neat guy!
Its: (VKRatliff@aol.com)

Ay,

Maynard

------------------------------		05/23/1997 4:53:44
New Will -- WILL OF ROBERT POYTHRESS, PRINCE GEORGE COUNTY, 1743TIMSPoythress List,

We have added the Will of Robert Poythress to our web page. This is a
fantastic document to have up. It names many relatives, the location and
prior owners of property, and provides significant insight into this
family. Maynard gets the credit for transcribing this one for us.

For a quick look
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/rpwill.html

For a quick look at what we've added in the past week
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/quick.html

Also, my father (Al, Sr. or Albert The Elder) is sorting the land patent
records (LVA card catalog entries) in new ways. On our web page these are
sorted by date. Below we have them sorted by county, owner and date. I
think you'll find this to be a useful reference. I'll likely put this
summary up on the web. Next step is to sort through all the deed data pool
files.

Robert Amelia 1740 19, 1739-41, p. 981
Peter Amelia 1763 35, 1762-64, p. 233
JohnCapt. Brunswick 1727 13, 1725-30, p. 205
Francis Brunswick 1735 16, 1745, p. 429
John Brunswick 1736 17, 1735-38, p. 293
Francis Charles City 1637 1, 1623-43, vol. 1, p. 439
Francis Capt. Charles City 1648 2, 1643-51, p.139
Francis Maj. Charles City 1681 7, 1679-89, p. 99
Francis Maj. Charles City 1682 7, 1679-89, p. 130
Francis Charles City 1683 7, 1679-1689, p. 235
John Charles City 1701 9, 1695-1706, p. 396
Rebecca Charles City 1701 9, 1695-1706, p. 241
John Charles City 1703 9, 1695-1706, p. 571
William Dinwiddie 1752 31, 1751-56, vol. 1, p. 171
Peter Dinwiddie 1780 a, 1770-1780, Vol. 1, p. 238
John Isle of Wight 1723 11, p. 258
John Isle of Wight 1725 10, p. 280
Joshua Prince George 1722 11, p. 131
Francis Col. Prince George 1724 12, p. 68
Thomas Prince George 1724 12, p. 228
William Prince George 1724 12, p. 68
William Prince George 1727 13, p. 273
Francis,Junr Prince George 1728 13, p. 439
Robert Prince George 1728 13, p. 377
Thomas Prince George 1733 15, p. 59
William Prince George 1733 15, p. 39
William Prince George 1733 15, p. 47
William Prince George 1733 15, p. 61
Joshua Prince George 1734 15, p. 437
William Prince George 1734 15, p. 461
Francis Prince George 1739 18, p. 130
Francis Prince George 1739 18, p. 366
William Prince George 1741 19, p. 950
William Maj. Prince George 1741 19, p. 983
Charles Prince George 1745 22, p. 420
John Junr Prince George 1745 22, p. 496
Peter Prince George 1751 29, p. 509
Peter Prince George 1790 Grant B, p. 298
Thomas Surry 1715 10, p. 265
John Surry 1717 10, p. 327
David Surry 1723 11, p. 284

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/23/1997 6:58:06
Possible Maiden Name for Mary -- wife of Francis Poythress #1TIMSPoythress List,

You may be interested in visiting the following web page for the Woodlief
family.

http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/home/woodfam.html

If you visit -- be sure to click on the Mary Wynne link. These documents
maintain that Mary Wynne (widow of Francis Poythress) was Mary Frances
Sloman.
---------------------
"Mary Frances Sloman was the widow of Francis Poythress and the mother of
Francis Poythress (whose son John married Christian Peebles and
granddaughter Mary married John Woodlief IV)."

About the daughter of Robert & Mary Wynne:
---------------------
"John Woodliffe III (ca. 1650-before 1722) and Mary Wynne (after 1650-after
1707)

John III was Pastor in Prince George Co VA. His cattle mark was "one smooth
cropps on each ear and half moon under left ear" (1689);

Mary was the daughter of Col. Robert Wynn (1622-1678) and Mary Frances
Sloman [m.1 to Francis Poythress] Robert Wynne (arrived in 1651) had a
600-acre plantation south of the James named Georges. (12 headrights). He
was granted to keep two Indians for service. He was Speaker of the House of
Burgesses during the Long Parliament, 1662-1674 and lived in Jordans
Parish, Charles City County and owned much property in England (5 houses, a
farm, and a mill). In his will, 7/1/1675, Robert Wynne left land in England
to eldest son and his plantation to Joshua; he left daughter Woodlief a
servant of four years and left grandson and godson George Woodlief one
filly foal."
____________________

I believe we should get in touch with Ann Woodlief -- author of the web
pages
awood@vcu.edu

Interesting, don't you think?

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/24/1997 7:10:36
Troup Co, GA Archives -- Caroline Ware Poythress GayTIMSPoythress List,

Just found the following Troup County, GA references. Anyone have
additional information?

1. CAROLINE WARE POYTHRESS GAY

NIX-PRICE COLLECTION
1893-1960
Manuscript Collection No. 4
SOURCE: Mrs. Lewis Price, LaGrange, Georgia SIZE: 6.5 lf, 4 volumes

The Nix sisters built Sunny Gables with part of this inheritance.
Subsequently the sisters were very involved in local civic activities.

Eugene Gay Nix (known throughout most of this collection as Mother Nix) was
born to John Thomas Gay (1828-1865) and Caroline Ware-Poythress-Gay
(1835-1922). She married William Howell Nix on December 9, 1880 and died
May 31, 1934. William Howell Nix was born to William W. Nix (1810-1867) and
Julia Howell (1818-1881) on September 28, 1856 and died June 4, 1889. He is
buried at Hillview Cemetery. Their three children were Julia, Mary, and
Carrie Nix.

Caroline Ware Poythress Gay, mother of Mrs. Nix, was Third Corporal in the
Nancy Harts. (Her devotion to the Confederacy is evident in the collection,
however, her activities with the Nancy Harts are not documented here.) The
Nix, Gay and Ware families were all long-time residents of LaGrange.

2. CAROLINE E. WARE POYTHRESS MEMORIAL
TRACINGS
Confederate States of America - memorials Davis, Snelson (LaGrange
photographer) Gay, Caroline E. Ware Poythress

The web address is:

http://www.lgc.peachnet.edu/archives/ms004.htm

------------------------------		05/24/1997 7:30:33
Re: Possible Maiden Name for Mary -- wife of Francis Poythress #1W. David SamuelsenTIMS wrote:
>
> Poythress List,
>
> You may be interested in visiting the following web page for the Woodlief
> family.
>
> http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/home/woodfam.html
>
> If you visit -- be sure to click on the Mary Wynne link. These documents
> maintain that Mary Wynne (widow of Francis Poythress) was Mary Frances
> Sloman.
> ---------------------
> "Mary Frances Sloman was the widow of Francis Poythress and the mother of
> Francis Poythress (whose son John married Christian Peebles and
> granddaughter Mary married John Woodlief IV)."
>
According to the webpage with more details. Robert WYNNE was born 1622
and baptized
at St Dunstans in Canterbury (impossible! since it is in London because
I did personal research on St Dunstans records for somebody else) Robert
Wynne was speaker of the House of Burgess 1662-1674. Robert died 1675.
Accord to the webpage Mary Wynne was born about 1650 and died after 1707
(daughter of Robert WYNNE and Mary Frances SLOMAN who is alleged to have
been wife of Francis POYTHRESS)

If this is it, then there is the problem of Mary BATTE daughter of
Henry BATTE and Mary LOUNDS, married to John POYTHRESS, son of Francis
POYTHRESS and Rebecca COGGIN (or COGAN). This Francis being the son of
Francis POYTHRESS and Mary.

The database I have on the family shows:
Francis POYTHRESS
born 1614 London, England son of John POYTHRESS and Peachy (surname?)
died 1661 Charles City County, Virginia
married
Mary (surname unknown)
born about 1618 of London, England
died??
had one son:
Francis POYTHRESS
born 1639 London, England
died 1688 Petersburg, Prince George, Virginia
married 1688 Charles City County, Virginia to
Rebecca COGGIN (COGAN) daughter of John COGGIN (COGAN) and Joyce
(surname?)
born 1645 Charles City County, Virginia
died: ?
5 children:
John POYTHRESS 1669 Charles City Co VA died bef May 1724 Prince George
Co. VA
married Mary BATTE
Francis POYTHRESS 1671 Charles City Co VA
married Hannah
Rebecca POYTHRESS 1672 Charles City Co VA died in North Carolina
married Richard PACE 1690 at Jamestown, VA
Ann POYTHRESS 1674 Charles City Co VA
married Burrell GREEN
Thomas POYTHRESS 1677 Charles City Co VA died?
marrie Elizabeth COCKE

Much of my information came from the Virginia records with help of the
index series of the Virginia Archives.

Continuing on John Poythress and Mary Batte;
daughter, Elizabeth born about 1689 Charles City Co, VA
married: John Fitzgerald who died 1737/1740 in Prince George Co, VA
one son, William Fitzgerald I born 1734 Prince George Co VA and died
1771 Amelia Co, VA
married Elizabeth IRBY daughter of Edmund IRBY (son of Edmund IRBY and
Elizabeth DOUGLAS) and his wife Ann BLAND (daughter of Richard BLAND and
Elizabeth RANDOLPH)
one son, James Fitzgerald
born 1760 Amelia Co, VA died 1817 Madison Co, Alabama. Enlisted in
Revolutionary War from Rowan Co, NC. Married Rebecca somewhere in NC.
She was born 1760 in VA
their son, John was born 1783 Amelia Co, VA, died after 1870 Elm
Springs, Washington, Arkansas (short distance from Fayetteville, AR)
married Mary (Polly) COUCH born 9 Mar 1794 Orange Co, NC - died before
1870 Elm Springs.
oldest son, James born 1 Jul 1809 Madison Co, Alabama - died 1852 near
Emigrant Springs, Blue Mountains, Oregon with wife Mahala WHITE, leaving
young children age from 16 to about 4 months. (12 children, 3 died
infants in Arkansas, oldest already heading to California, leaving 8
children heading to Portland, Oregon)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W. David Samuelsen
Will Testators Indexes Online
Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------		05/24/1997 8:19:32
"The Family Tree"The Odum Library in Moultrie, Georgia publishes this execellent international
genealogical newspaper and it is FREE.

Address: The Odum Library
P. O. Box 1110
Moultrie, Georgia 31776-1110.

It is published bi-monthly, is tabloid sized with two sections, probably 50+
pages in all. Coincidentally, the Odum Library is the respository for the
clan records of about
75 or so of the Scottish Clans which I suspect is most of the clans with
active societies here in U. S. If you have an interest in the Scottish
part, the newspaper is a real winner....if you aren't interested in the
Scottish stuff, its no big deal just to skip over it.

All you need for a subscription is to drop them a note with your name and
address asking to be put on the mailing list. How is it free? Some gracious
lady named Ellen Payne Odum left them a huge endowment to do just what they
are doing.

Thought this might be of interest to those not already on the Odum Library
list.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/25/1997 4:14:59
Charlotte Reed/Wm. PoythressFrom "The Reade Genealogy, Descendants of William Reade of Weymouth,
Massachusetts from 1635 to 1902", Vol. 2., by John Ludovicus Reed.

Page 593, Daughters-Seventh Generation:

Charlotte Reed, daughter of Elias and Sarah (Block) Reed.
b. June 6, 1825, in Richmond, Va.; d. June 24, 1897
m. June 6, 1843, Capt. Wm. Peterson Poythress, born Nov.__, 1812, d.
November
30, 1862, at Nassau, Bahama Islands; son of Patrick Henry and Mary
(Eppes)
Poythress.

Capt. Poythress belonged to one of the old colonial families of Virginia
usually styled
F. F. V. He descended in a direct line from Patrick Henry as well as
Pocahontas.

Children:

*Mary Pocahontas Poythress, b. March 18, 1844, d. April 8, 1844.
*Patrick Henry Poythress Poythress, b. Jan. 5, 1846, d. July 10, 1863;
accidentally shot during the Confederate War.
*William Powhatan Poythress, b. Nov. 24, 1847; m. Nov. 6, 1877,
m. Louise Campbell Mayo (2 children).
*Sarah Reed Poythress, b. Feb. 8, 1852
*Walter Eppes Poythress, b. Aug. 20, 1861; d. Sept. 12, 1888, in
Jacksonville, Fla.,
of yellow fever; m. April 18, 1888 Mamie J. Brouse, daughter of Rev. H. K.
Brouse, M. D., Atlanta, Georgia.

Notes/comments:

* while this is later than the period we are typically looking at, William
Poythress m.
Charlotte Reed is constantly showing up, probably due to this source book,
and we might as well have a hook to put him on.

* we now know that both "direct line" decendancies herein claimed for William
Poythress are incorrect.

* William Poythress was a real "captain" as opposed to the common honorific
for a militia captain. William was commanding a blockade runner at the time
of his death at Nassau, a prominent departure location for blockade runners.
(only slightly amusing that the Massachusetts author would neglect to mention
that one of his female line married an officer of the CSN).

* Child William Powhatan Poythress was founder of the Richmond drug company.

* a second look at birth and death dates will reveal that this family group
had considerable tragedy.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/25/1997 5:38:32
Siblings Rev. Francis P.To Bud Poythress:

To answer your question re existance of second sibling of Rev. Francis P. in
additon to Susanna (Poythress) Pryor.....yes indeedy, Francis had a second
sister and she was indeed Elizabeth (Peniston) Poythress.

I had that established by two folks researching here in Kentucky; Dick
Bedwell is chasing Mastersons and Tara Peniston is chasing Penistons. Both
have Elizabeth in their respective trees.

By copy of this e-mail I'm asking both Dick and Tara if they have any idea as
to the Virginia parentage of Francis-Susanna-Elizabeth. Would you drop me
an e-mail at VKRatliff@aol.com. if you have it? Many thanks.

Bud, I'm also guessing that this particular Francis is in the line traced by
Wm.Hall in his Wm. & Mary Quarterly article on "The Four Francis'es". Al
Tims, you have the
"book"....take a look would you? And if its there tell Dick and Tara also.
I know Tara was looking for it as recently as March; I don't know about
Dick's information.

BTW, Tara and Dick, we have a Poythress web page up now and invite you to
visit.
Its: http://www1.minn.net/~atims/ ....doubt if there is anything
specific in there for you but we are one of not many pages posting documents
themselves instead of just bare bones "tree" information.

Best to all,

Maynard Poythress

DICK BEDWELL: aol bounced FPP1802 (Tara Peniston) on me. Can you forward if
you still have connection with her? Many thanks.

------------------------------		05/25/1997 6:01:54
Boddie Vol. 4I have a cuz (not on the list) who transcribed that whole Poythress chapter
out of Boddie's Vol. 4. I saved it just to have it on my hard drive in
addition to hard copy.

If anyone would like the chapter I'll be happy to send it to you as a file.

Al: you want it for the page?

------------------------------		05/25/1997 6:52:40
Tabitha PoythressBen A. OrtonHello Maynard,
Thank you again for the help on Tabitha, i now have a copy of the
marriage bond on Henry Randolph and Tabitha but i have a question maybe
you can help with, on the Batte chart and in many of the books on this
line shows the marriage date as 1742, and that since the will on her
father was in 1743 that she is not entitled to any of the slaves in her
father will as he leaves them to the unmarried daughters at the time,
now the problem the marriage bond is dated 12/11/1744 and is wit. by
John Gilliam, is the marriage date 1742 or 1744 is what i am looking
for. and again THANK YOU for your help
Ben

P.S.
Hi AL Tims, Great job on the web Page.

------------------------------		05/25/1997 8:21:37
Reply to Pat CreweCopy attached as information. Pat Crewe also gave me names of two other
Poythress chasers whom I will write. Any suggestions or thoughts on
something I might be missing just say so. Thanks.

Maynard

(letterhead)

May 25, 1997

Mrs. Pat Crewe
36 Trevelyan
Bracknell
Berkshire
RG12 8YD
England

Dear Pat:

Your letter has a lot of our Poythress group salivating. I do indeed believe
that Francis baptised 12 July 1609 stands an excellent chance of being our
man.....or enough of a chance to be worth working on to the exclusion of
anything else unless or until we can disprove him. We would have to accept
that he was either baptised some few years after birth or else was an
exceptionally precocious individual.

I also believe the Newent location to be the opportunity of the present,
including John Poydresse. Would you be so kind as to send me anything you
have in your papers on this. I would be most pleased to reimburse you for
any and all copying and postage costs.

I will indeed write the two other ladies whose names you gave me.

One final thought/question. Casual theory among us has said the name was
of Welsh derivation. Those who have worked at it continue to be told that
the derivation is Cornish. The only evidence I have seen in this respect is
a 16th century census of
Cornwall with several families of Poytherass in St. Just. Would you have
any opinion?

Pat, our web page for Poythress research beginning with Francis, though far
from complete, is one of the few that I have seen that is ambitious enough to
post transcriptions from original documents. If you have a friend with
access to the internet the address is: http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
I know you would enjoy it.

I know you are looking forward to being on-line. I assure you it is worth
the expense and the effort to learn the drill. My address is
VKRatliff@aol.com when you are ready.

Thanks again for your time and effort so graciously given. We are deeply
appreciative and look forward to welcoming you into our Poythress discussion
group when you are on-line.

Sincerely,

------------------------------		05/25/1997 11:44:45
Re: Possible Maiden Name for Mary -- wife of Francis Poythress #1TIMSW. David,

Thanks for posting the information below. You touch on several issues and
I'm sure others on the list will likely follow with more information than I
have.

I'm sure all of us on the Poythress-L list would love to know where the
information on Francis Poythress son of John Poythress and ? Peachy comes
from. To date, we have not found any proof of this. We've see it on
various web pages, but when we ask about the origins of the information
we've had no luck. Any insight you might be able to offer would be a
fantastic contribution.

As to the Woodlief/Wynne connections. Robert Wynne's Will leaves little
doubt that Mary Wynne was the widow of Francis Poythress. Even the LVA
survey (on our web research/resource pages) makes this pretty clear. It
also leaves little doubt Francis Poythress (#1) had a son named Thomas
Poythress.
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/wynnwill.html

The 1675 will identifies Robert WYNNE as of Jordan's Parish, Charles City
Co.,VA, and asks that he be buried in the Jordan's church near his son
Robert. To his oldest son Thomas, he leaves a farm in
Whitestaple Parish near Canterbury, England, called Limbet Banckes, along
with two houses in Canterbury in St. Mildred's Parish. To son Joshua he
leaves a house and oatmeal mill in Dover
Lane outside St. George's, Canterbury, called the Lilly Pot, and two tenant
houses. Sons Thomas and Josuah are also left property in VA, the latter
receiving the plantation called George's. To his
daughter Mary Woodlief, he leaves a servant, and to Mary's son George he
also leaves property. The rest of the estate went to Robert WYNNE's wife
and extrx. Mary. The overseers of the Virginia estate were to be Thomas
GRENDON and Robert WYNNE's son-in-law [i.e., stepson] Capt. Francis
POYTHRESS.

This Will does place the Wynne English estate in Canterbury. Given your
experience however, Ann Woodlief's statement that St Dunstans is in
Canterbury would seem to merit a correction.

The same is true about the Sloman maiden name. I have seen nothing yet to
support this claim. I hope Ann Woodlief will be able to help us further.

In addition to Francis(2) and Thomas as sons of Francis(1). We also have a
son John Poythress. The following reference tends to support this belief:

In 1661 Edward Hill deeded 50 acres in Charles City County, adj. Capt.
Robert Wynne
to John Poythress, "son of Captain Francis Poythress, decd".

The fourth child of Francis & Mary Poythress is Jane Poythress who
"reportedly" married Thomas Rolfe. The statement that the Bolling memoirs
supports this marriage remains somewhat controversial. It seems possible,
but far from proven.

The last record we see of Francis(1) Poythress is in the late 1640s. This
fact, in combination with Mary's marriage to Robert Wynne circa 1650 is
consistent with an interpretation that Francis(1) died prior to 1650.

In sum, we have good reason to believe that Francis Poythress(1) and Mary
(?) had four children: Francis, Thomas, John and Jane.

Now, as for the following:

you wrote.
> ... then there is the problem of Mary BATTE daughter of
> Henry BATTE and Mary LOUNDS, married to John POYTHRESS, son of Francis
> POYTHRESS and Rebecca COGGIN (or COGAN). This Francis being the son of
> Francis POYTHRESS and Mary.

I have John Poythress m. Mary Batte -- just as you do. However, I have him
as the son of John Poythress and Christian Peebles, not of Francis
Poythress m. Rebecca Coggin (Cogan). Perhaps we can sort this out. In
either case, John Poythress m. Mary Batte would not seem to present a
problem based on the Woolief information. John (m. Mary Batte) would have
been the grandson of Francis (1) Poythress (m. Mary ?). Then again,
perhaps I'm missing something in your statement.

One of the best general summaries of these early generations (in part) is
R. Bolling Batte's chart prepared in 1977. It is FAR from complete and I do
not cite it as authority -- only as consistent with much of what we have
seen so far.
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/batte.html

Best,

Al Tims

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

> According to the webpage with more details. Robert WYNNE was born 1622
> and baptized
> at St Dunstans in Canterbury (impossible! since it is in London because
> I did personal research on St Dunstans records for somebody else) Robert
> Wynne was speaker of the House of Burgess 1662-1674. Robert died 1675.
> Accord to the webpage Mary Wynne was born about 1650 and died after 1707
> (daughter of Robert WYNNE and Mary Frances SLOMAN who is alleged to have
> been wife of Francis POYTHRESS)
>
> If this is it, then there is the problem of Mary BATTE daughter of
> Henry BATTE and Mary LOUNDS, married to John POYTHRESS, son of Francis
> POYTHRESS and Rebecca COGGIN (or COGAN). This Francis being the son of
> Francis POYTHRESS and Mary.
>
> The database I have on the family shows:
> Francis POYTHRESS
> born 1614 London, England son of John POYTHRESS and Peachy (surname?)
> died 1661 Charles City County, Virginia
> married
> Mary (surname unknown)
> born about 1618 of London, England
> died??
> had one son:
> Francis POYTHRESS
> born 1639 London, England
> died 1688 Petersburg, Prince George, Virginia
> married 1688 Charles City County, Virginia to
> Rebecca COGGIN (COGAN) daughter of John COGGIN (COGAN) and Joyce
> (surname?)
> born 1645 Charles City County, Virginia
> died: ?
> 5 children:
> John POYTHRESS 1669 Charles City Co VA died bef May 1724 Prince George
> Co. VA
> married Mary BATTE
> Francis POYTHRESS 1671 Charles City Co VA
> married Hannah
> Rebecca POYTHRESS 1672 Charles City Co VA died in North Carolina
> married Richard PACE 1690 at Jamestown, VA
> Ann POYTHRESS 1674 Charles City Co VA
> married Burrell GREEN
> Thomas POYTHRESS 1677 Charles City Co VA died?
> marrie Elizabeth COCKE
>
> Much of my information came from the Virginia records with help of the
> index series of the Virginia Archives.
>
> Continuing on John Poythress and Mary Batte;
> daughter, Elizabeth born about 1689 Charles City Co, VA
> married: John Fitzgerald who died 1737/1740 in Prince George Co, VA
> one son, William Fitzgerald I born 1734 Prince George Co VA and died
> 1771 Amelia Co, VA
> married Elizabeth IRBY daughter of Edmund IRBY (son of Edmund IRBY and
> Elizabeth DOUGLAS) and his wife Ann BLAND (daughter of Richard BLAND and
> Elizabeth RANDOLPH)
> one son, James Fitzgerald
> born 1760 Amelia Co, VA died 1817 Madison Co, Alabama. Enlisted in
> Revolutionary War from Rowan Co, NC. Married Rebecca somewhere in NC.
> She was born 1760 in VA
> their son, John was born 1783 Amelia Co, VA, died after 1870 Elm
> Springs, Washington, Arkansas (short distance from Fayetteville, AR)
> married Mary (Polly) COUCH born 9 Mar 1794 Orange Co, NC - died before
> 1870 Elm Springs.
> oldest son, James born 1 Jul 1809 Madison Co, Alabama - died 1852 near
> Emigrant Springs, Blue Mountains, Oregon with wife Mahala WHITE, leaving
> young children age from 16 to about 4 months. (12 children, 3 died
> infants in Arkansas, oldest already heading to California, leaving 8
> children heading to Portland, Oregon)
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> W. David Samuelsen
> Will Testators Indexes Online
> Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------		05/25/1997 12:28:13
Dymock Records -- A brief overviewTIMSPoythress List,

We're in the midst of adding some exciting new documents to our web page.
You can find experimental links now. What this means is that the job of
getting the format, etc. cleaned up isn't done. We will have announcements
shortly. I'm very excited about the new material.

Below is a document just in from England. I will post this to the web too.
It is short enough to post here. Enjoy!

Extracts from the Dymock Parish Registers
1538-1650 inclusive

1538/9 Mar 8 bur Hary s.o. Thomas & Margrete Powdras
1542 Sep 25 chr Margery d.o. Roger & Jone Pewteras
1545 Nov 9 mar John Okeley & Jone Pewtres
1546/7 Feb. 5 wed Ric' Pewtres & Katerin Pyrry
1547 Jun. 6 chr Annys d.o. Ric' & Katerin Pewtres
1547/8 Feb. 22 chr Phylyppe s.o. Thomas & Margett Pewtrese
1548 Apr 5 bur Phylyppe Pewtres
1548/9 Jan 2 chr Thomas s.o. Ric' & Katerin Pewtres
1549 Jul 4 wed Roger Deane & Johan Pewtres
1549 Sep 10 chr Jone Grestock d.o. Wyllym Grestocke & Annys Pewtres
1550 Apr 2 chr Jone d.o. Rychard & Katerin Pewtres
1551 Jun 17 wed William Grestock, mynistre, & Annis Pewtres
1551/2 Mar 9 chr marget d.o. Richard & Isabell Pewtres
1552 May 26 bur Marget Pewtres
1553/4 Mar 12 chr An d.o. Ric' & Ysabell Pewtres
1555 Sep 15 bap Margytt d.o. Rychard & Elsabeth Pewtres
1561 Jul 26 bap Rychard s.o. Rychard & Elzabett Pewtres
1564 Nov 30 mar John Spyllman & Margeri Pewteres
1566 May 10 mar Edmonde Pewtres & Katerin Bali
1567 Jun 1 mar Richard Hill of Ledburi & An Pewtres
1568 Jul 5 mar Wyllyam Peutres & An Brodeford, wid,
wiffe of Thomas Brodford
1568 Aug 16 bur Thomas Pewtres, the elder
1568 Sep 19 bap Edward s.o. Edmond & Katerin Pewtres
1569 May 1 bap Thomas s.o. Thomas & Johan Pewters (Pewteres)
1569 Oct 2 chr Elsebethe d.o. Wyllyam & An Povettrese
1570 Apr 16 chr Wyllyam s.o. Edmunde & Katryn Peweters
1570 Oct 19 bap John s.o. Thomas & Joane Puteres
1574 Oct 21 mar James Pewteres & Ann Wynyeyt
1574 Dec 24 chr Jane d.o. Edmond Pewteres
1574 Dec 24 chr Anne d.o. Edmond Pewteres
1574/5 Jan 17 bur Anne Pewteres
1575 Nov 27 bap Thomas s.o. James Pewteres
1575/6 Jan 15 bap Anne d.o. Thomas Pewteres
1578 Apr 20 bur Margaret Pewtres, wid.
1578 Jul 7 bap John s.o. James & Ane Pewteres
1578 Aug 8 bur John s.o. James Pewteres
1578 Sep 23 bap Jane d.o. Wyllyam Pewteres
1579 Sep 19 bur Joane d.o. James Pewt(e)res
1580 Apr 5 bap John s.o. Edmond Pewteres
1581 May 14 bap Grace d.o. James & Ane Pewtres
1581 Jul 14 mar Thomas Pewtres & Margeret Pewtres
1581 Nov 5 bap John s.o. Thomas Pewtres
1582 Oct 18 bap Martha d.o. Edmond & Kateren Pewtres
1582/3 Mar 3 bap Ane d.o.James & Ane Pewtres
1583 Sep 20 bur Joane Pewtres, wid
1583 Dec 29 bap Ane d.o. Thomas Pewtres
1584 Aug 9 bap Margery d.o. Edmond & Kateren Pewtres
1584 Sep 3 Margery d.o. Edmond & Kateren Pewtres
1585 Aug 1 bap John s.o. James & Ane Pewtres
1586 Aug 20 bap Ales d.o. Thomas Balden alias Pewtres
1588 May 28 bap John s.o. James & Ane Pewtres
1589 Jun 14 bur Thomas Pewtres
1589 Jun 29 bap Margery d.o. Thomas Pewtres 'alies' Ballden
1591 Nov 10 bur Joane w.o Thomas Pewtres
1592/3 Mar 7 bur Thomas Pewtres
1595 Oct 22 bur Grace d.o. James & Ane Pewtres
1596/7 Feb 21 bur Rychard Pewtres
1598 Jun 8 bur James Pewtres
1599 Oct 13 bur Isabell w.o. Rychard Pewtres
1600 May 5 bur Mary w.o. Rychard Pewtres
1600 Jul 7 mar Rychard Pewtres & Ane Hodges
1601 Sep 6 bap Wyllyam s.o. Rychard & Ane Pewtres
1601 Oct 5 mar Thomas Drwe & Jane Pewtres
1601/2 Mar 7 bap Anne d.o. Rowland Pewtres
1602 Nov 22 bap John s.o. Margeret Pewtres, the imputed father is
Thomas Tayler
1602 Nov 22 bur John s.o. Margeret Pewtres
1605 Apr 1 bur Kateren w.o. Edmond Pewtres(e)
1609/10 Dec 3 bap Margery d.o. Wylliam & Joane Pewtres
1611 Dec 8 bap Elyzabeth d.o. Wyllyam & Joane Pewtres
1612 May 21 bap Wyllyam s.o. John Pewtres
1614/15 Dec 1 bap Ane d.o. Wylliam & Joane Pewtres
1615 May 10 bur Rychard Pewtres
1615 Jun 11 bap Edmond s.o. Thomas Pewtres
1616 May 11 mar John Joanes & Margeret Pewtres
1616 Oct 23 mar Wylliam Stalard & martha Pewtres
1617/18 Nov 23 bap Wylliam s.o. Wylliam Pewtres
1617/18 Mar 18 bap John s.o. Thomas Pewtres
1620 Apr 23 bap James s.o. Thomas Pewtres
1620 May 7 bur James s.o. Thomas Pewtres
1620 May 27 bap Frances d.o. Wyllyam & Joane Pewtres
1621 Jun 15 bur Edmond Pewtres
1622 Sep 26 bap Elyzabeth d.o. Thomas & Ane Pewtres
1622 Oct 14 bur Elyzabeth d.o. Thomas & Anne Pewtres
1622 Oct 27 bap Henrye s.o. Wylliam & Jane Pewtres
1623/4 Jan 11 bap Thomas s.o. Thomas & Ane Pewtres
1626 Jun 11 bur Edmunde s.o. Thomas Pewters
1626 Aug 20 bap Henry s.o. Thomas Pewters
1628 Nov 22 bur Thomas Pewtres
1637/8 Nov 5 bur William Baldwine alias Pewtres of Denington
1638/9 Oct 5 bur Frauncis d.o. Willm. Pewtres
1640 Apr 4 bur William Pewtres
1645/6 Jan 3 bap Elizabeth d.o. Anne Pewtres a basse
1648/9 Feb 9 bap Henry s.o. Henry Pewtres

------------------------------		05/26/1997 1:53:55
Ann Poythress (m. John Wall) was daughter of ???James L. PoolePrior to seeing the Batte chart I had already concluded that the Ann Poythress
who married John Wall of Brunswick Co. was most likely the daughter of Joshua.
This was based upon a lot of circumstantial evidence and a long process of
elimination. I was relieved to see that Robert Bolling Batte concluded the
same thing (see #216 on his chart). Unfortunately he didn't leave me/us a clue
in his notes as to how he reached this conclusion, but he probably arrived at
the conclusion the same way I did -- purely a process of deduction and
elimination.

Unfortunately, and unknown to Mr. Batte, there was another Ann who might have
been the one who married John Wall, and that was the daughter of John
Poythress, who left a will in 1724, which was found after Mr. Batte made his
chart. According to Bodie "The children of John Poythress, d. 1724, are
untraced. They were quite young at the time of their father's death." Since
John named a daughter Ann in his will, and she was the last named, she was
probably the youngest of his children. Hence if she were very young at the
time her father made her will, then this Ann may have been the one who married
John Wall.

I've not seen anyone "claim" the latter Ann (daughter of John), so am asking
this list if anyone knows what happened to her. Until I can positively place
her and reach some level of confidence that she either died young or married
someone else, I'm going to have to continue considering her a possible
candidate for my ancestress.

How about it? Can anyone account for the children of John Poythress (d. after
1724)? Is there anyone else who has concluded that the Ann who married John
Wall was the daughter of Joshua Poythress, and what on what basis did you make
this conclusion? Would love to exchange notes with anyone interested on this
question.

Lou Poole, Richardson, TX (lpoole@dallas.net)

------------------------------		05/26/1997 4:07:31
New Information SourcesTIMSPoythress List,

We have two wonderful (emphasize) new resources on our web pages. Lou
Poole has given us permission to put up her chapter on the Poythress
family. This is an impressive compilation -- well worth your attention.
You'll find it on the allied family page under Poythress-Wall. A couple of
quick notes. First, her footnotes didn't stay connected when we converted
the document for the web page. The footnotes are listed at the end of the
document, but the numbering was lost. I will investigate ways to correct
this problem. In the meantime, I'm sure Lou would be willing to accomodate
anyone wishing a propertly footnoted version. Secondly, this is a long
document with charts -- so expect it to take a couple of minutes to load on
your first visit to the page. Do take a look.

The other new resource is an annotation of Boddie's classic work on the
Poythress Family of Prince George County. You'll find this linked on the
new additions page. I still haven't decided where it best fits. This is a
model of what I hope we'll be doing more -- linking our documentation to
knowledge claims. This is a work in progress -- we should be adding
documentation and analysis. I hope all of you will see the value in this
approach and will pitch-in in making suggestions and offering information.
We'll also be able to add corrections, additions or revisions to the
information. Best you look and see. I think this is a "way cool" approach
that really takes advantage of hypertext documentation.

I'm still a little behind in getting things posted, but I'd really
appreciate more Will transcriptions, census data, marriage records, etc.
The more primary documentation we can pull together the better.

I hope we'll be able to give Elise Markham a good answer to her Tabitha P.
& Henry Randolph query.
wry@aye.net

Again -- we owe Lou Poole a BIG thank you for the wonderful addition to our
resource pool (no pun intended).

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------


05/27/1997 1:37:44
John Poythress Will of 11 Dec 1712 -- Did R. B. Batte get it wrong?TIMSPoythress List,

The following Will should stir things up -- especially in light of all
prior accounts of the early Poythress generations.

John Poythress, Sr. of Prince Geoerge County
Page 175, Wills and Deeds Ledger B, 1711-1713

Proved: 11 Dec 1712

John Poythress names:

1. Son, Francis -- all land and plantation I now live on.
2. Son, David -- 300 acres in Funnastorah (I've never heard of this
before!)
3. Son, Josuha -- 300 acres in Monkasaneck
4. Son, Robert -- 300 acres in Indian Swamp
5. Son, William -- 3 negros
6. Son, Peter -- 2 negros
7. Wife, Christian -- 3 negros, plus servant John Field to be freed after
his time
8. Dau, Elizabeth -- 2 negros, plus…
9. Dau, Christian -- 2 negors.
10. Dau, Mary Woodlief -- 40 pnds.
11. Grandson, Francis, son of Francis, 1 negro child

Exec: wife and son John. Appoints his two brothers, Josuha & Thomas Wynne
and William Stainback to be dividers of my estate.

This document (WE MUST HAVE ORIGINAL!) is very important!!!.

It suggests that R. Bolling Batte's account is in error!

1. It shows that Francis was HIS son. Moreover, he had a grandson
named Francis prior to 1712. Think about it! This is a major change in
the chart.

2. I am unclear if he is calling Josuha and Thomas Wynne his brothers.
This is quite possible if Robert Wynne married Mary after the death of
Francis (I).

3. The document also establishes a daughter (Mary) married to a Woodlief.

I don't know why it has taken me so long to recognize the significance of
this record. As I said, we must make every effort to secure a full text
copy.

One final note -- The information above is a summary from Benjamin
Weisiger's transcriptions (1992). The Weisiger transcriptions are
abstracts -- not full transcriptions. Mr. Weisiger states that these
records were only recently returned to Prince George County. They were
removed prior to the Civil War and were in private hands in Cincinnati.
This would explain why previous family accounts do not mention it.

Best,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/27/1997 4:49:07
Re: Tabitha PoythressJWinstonI am a descendent of Tabitha POYTHRESS and Henry Randolph IV. My
question has to do with the family story that her mother was Elizabeth
BLAND. If there is supporting evidence or contradictory, I would like
to know. I have found little information on her. Feel free to add this
to your queries. Thank you for your assistance.

Elise Markham
wry@aye.net

------------------------------


05/27/1997 5:05:41
Thomas Poythress -- Probable son of Francis (1)TIMSPoythress List,

Recall that most accounts have Thomas Poythress returning to England per
the following record:

Transportation of Thomas Poythress
Volume II, Charles City County Court Orders, 1658-1661: Page 213
These presents oblige me Arthur Graunt to Carry Thomas Poythres in my ship
this yeare for England and at his arrivall there in case mr. George Laud
shall not accomodate him w'th Dyett and lodging, I do hereby oblige my
selfe to do it untill the retorne of the next shipping to this Countrey of
Virginia, w'ch I am to do gratis w'thout expecting any pay, and the next
yeare to bring him into this Countrey againe he paying for his passage
inward as others doe. To the performance whereof I bind me my heires ex'rs
and adm'rs and In testimony thereof have hereunto put my hand this 30th of
November 1659.
Wit: Arthur Graunt
John Stith
Thomas Malory rec 10'br 3.59 (sic)

Find below a reference that "might" suggest a return trip for Thomas
Poythress a few years later. This record demands more careful study. We
should attempt to determine more about this John Thomas. I believe we
might also benefit from a study of Mr. George Laud and Arthur Gruant
mentioned above.

Headright For Transportation of Thomas Portris
Cavaliers and Pioneers: Abstracts of Virginia Land Patents and Grants
Abstracted and Indexed by Nell Marion Nugent, Virginia State Library,
Richmond, 1977.
Mr. John Thomas. 1000 acs. at the head of a Cr. in Potomack freshes beyond
the Doeggs Is. & land of Col. Speake, adj. land of Robert Lord & James
Magregory & a seate of John Woods: 4 Apr. 1671, p. 358. Trans. of 20 pers:

Jno. Gregory, Henry Neale, John Brigges
Wm. Thurstone, Jno. Carner, Mary Meriwether
Thomas Dunstone, Anne Gundwile, Jno. Moody
Anne Cooke, Rob. Thorowgood, Tho. Lawrence
Susan Freeman, Tho. Portris, Tho. Appleton
Rich. Brewton, Mary Brussells, Henry Dod
Mary Cole, Jno. Rosse

Best,
Al Tims

------------------------------		05/27/1997 7:06:14
Re: John Poythress Will of 11 Dec 1712 -- Did R. B. Batte get it wrong?TIMSLori and List,

Oh Lori, you are an treasure! I'm sure there are TONS of things we need,
but this item by itself would be of great value to us. Okay, okay... one
more :-).

Page 70. We Charles Bartholomew & Rebecca Bartholomew, of love and
affection ot our daughter Anne Bartholomew, after our decesae, give her 200
acres on ....
being rest of 1000 acres granted to said Rebecca in her widowhood, by
escheat patent 29 Aoril 1692; the moiety whereof is at present belonging to
Col. Littlebury Epes, and 300 more whereof is given by us to Rebecca
Poythress, by deed of gift to her this date.... Recorded 13 Sept. 1711.

Now, on Page 76 we have another deed from Charles and Rebecca to daughter
Rebecca Poythress. 10 Sept, 1711, Recorded 13 Sept 1711.

That makes 3 items. Now, if time permits you might also take a quick look
for a
Settlement of Accounts (Page 268) between Major Charles Goodrich & Mr. John
Hardyman.

I see in this record the following statement:
Chargeable to Co.. Hardyman's estate only 20 yds of stuff to Mr. Platt for
Mrs. Mary Hardyman
Mrs. Poythress, chargeable to either her oun legacy or Col. Hardyman's
estate
......
Recorded 12 Jan, 1713

This record is important because it might shed some new light on the
Poythress-Hardyman relationship. Cool!

That is it. These four items are all important, but none more important
that item 1 above.

This is great!!!!

Best,

Al Tims

----------
From: Lori W. Poythress
To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: John Poythress Will of 11 Dec 1712 -- Did R. B. Batte get it
wrong?
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 5:27 PM

I've been keeping up with all the fantastic work the group is doing....
until summer comes I am limited in my time to devote to your
efforts...however in response to Al's posting on 5/27/97... I can handle
that ! I will go by the courthouse in Prince George ( I teach school in
Prince George County , VA ) and request a copy of John Poythress,Sr. of
Prince George will from page 175, Wills and Deeds Ledger B, 1711-1713. I
will try to go tomorrow.... if I find what you need I will let you know.
Need anything else while I'm there ??? HA ....

Lori Poythress
----------

------------------------------		05/28/1997 1:00:27
Civil War RecordsTIMSPoythress List,

Craig Scott's compilation of Poythress entries in the Confederate Military
Service Index M253, Roll 386 is now up on our web page -- click on the
military records button.

This is a first transcription of Craig's notes, so expect some errors. I'd
appreciate corrections.

Craig -- This is a fantastic new resource for us! Thanks.

Additional military records and accounts would be greatly appreciated.

Best to all,

Al Tims

------------------------------		05/28/1997 4:45:17
John Poythress Will of 11 Dec 1712 -- Did R. B. Batte get it wrong?Lori W. PoythressI've been keeping up with all the fantastic work the group is doing....
until summer comes I am limited in my time to devote to your
efforts...however in response to Al's posting on 5/27/97... I can handle
that ! I will go by the courthouse in Prince George ( I teach school in
Prince George County , VA ) and request a copy of John Poythress,Sr. of
Prince George will from page 175, Wills and Deeds Ledger B, 1711-1713. I
will try to go tomorrow.... if I find what you need I will let you know.
Need anything else while I'm there ??? HA ....

Lori Poythress

------------------------------		05/28/1997 12:27:13
From:

"The Complete Book of Emigrants 1607-1660", by Peter Wilson Coldham, Gene.
Pub. Co. Baltimore, 1988.

Citation is from Bristol Record Office City of Bristol, manuscript volumes
entitled
"servants to foreign plantations".

23 July 1659: John Knight of Malborough, Devon, yeoman, bound to Henry
Quinton of Bridgwater, mariner, to serve 7 years in Barbados. The following
bound to Edward
Wasbrow to serve 4 years in Virginia, etc................. Ann Fuller of
Sanford (sic) bound to Thomas Poytres, merchant, to serve 5 years in
Virginia. The following, etc......." [the "(sic)" is that of the
transcriber Mr. Coldham].

Does this sound like:

1) Francis(1)'s son Thomas (aged 24 if we assign him an arbitrary birth date
of 1635) NOW back in Virginia as a merchant has contracted for an "assigned";
i. e. Ann Fuller ?

2) Francis(1)'s son Thomas (aged 24, etc....) BRINGING Ann Fuller back to
Virginia? (doubtful as there is no other implied "binder" traveling with one
or more "bounds"). I think it can be assumed that the Thomas in question was
IN Virginia.

3) Thomas Poythres (NOT a son of Francis)....as in "26 March 1639. Govenor
Harvey has set up a commission consisting of John Chew, Thomas Stegg, Thomas
Burbage and George Ludlowe, merchants, to examine the complaint of Laurence
Evans, merchant, against abuses committed by his factor Thomas Poythress, a
planter of Virginia."
(Calendar of State Papers, American Colonial Series, 1660 edition, by W. Noel
Sainsbury, Publishers Longman & Green, 1860)

The Thomas of "3)" above continues to perplex. If Francis "appears" in
Virginia 1633 it would seem likely that he didn't marry Jane ____ until he
arrived. A son Thomas
would hardly be in position to be a "merchant" at age 5 (assuming Francis
married
Jane on day #1 and had a son Thomas in the first year of the marriage.

It also seems unlikely that if Laurence Evans brought suit against Francis in
1633, he would be entrusting the same office of factor to a brother (?) of
Francis in 1639....and the alledged offense had to be committed even prior to
the creation of the "commission" so the time factor becomes even more
truncated.... with respect for the possibility that Thomas is a son of
Francis.

Anybody care to take a whack at putting "Thomas" or "these Thomases" on the
right hook(s) ?

Maynard

------------------------------		05/29/1997 3:31:03
Re: Al and Maynard info from PGTIMSLORI,

I'm so thrilled with your contributions. If you will send a copy of the
material to me I will get it up on the Web pages immediately. I will start
with an "image" of the original and then we can add a transcription. My
address is:

Albert Tims, 1578 Corral Lane, Woodbury, MN 55125

I'm so pleased that you found the work neat -- a real good sign!

You've done us a wonderful service. Thank you, thank you.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
From: Lori W. Poythress
To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Al and Maynard info from PG
Date: Thursday, May 29, 1997 4:08 PM

AL, Maynard and List

Prince George built a new courthouse the county records are housed there.
I visited the records room this afternoon and was told that Ledger B,
1711-1713 was indeed a treasure as it was just returned to Prince George 5
years ago. The orginal ledger is in such poor condition that the general
public can only view a copied ledger. I can check to see if you can view
the original. I noticed that some of the pages were indeed missing.... but
not the ones Al had requested ! I have a copy of the deed from page 175-176
, John Poythress. I also copied page 70-71 , and pages 76-77. So who do I
send them to ??
The clerk also told me about a local attorney, Richard Jones, who has
written an unpublished copy title " An Early History of Prince George
County " . They let me look through the copy they had ( you can not make
photocopies ) . They gave me his phone number and said he is a wealth of
knowledge if I would like to contact him. It did contain a page titled "
Evergreen " Brief info on Francis Poythress and military service.
John Poythress born 1640 at Evergreen family house at Deep Bootom, Baylor's
Creek.

Also had the Quit Rent Rolls for Prince George Co taken 1704, listed
Frances Poythwes Sen

I tried to find out where Funnastorah was ... but no luck and time ran
out....

Maynard.... let me know when you visit the area... you can be my mentor and
explain to me what you do and how you do it !!! I'll tag along and watch
you in action and learn a few tricks of the trade .

If you want me to transcribe the will of John Poythress for the list I can
do it ,but it will have to be at another time as my son has a 6:00 baseball
game...and I never miss a ballgame !!

Let me know what else I can find for you.... it was pretty neat !

Lori
----------

------------------------------		05/29/1997 4:43:01
Latest From EnglandTIMSPoythress List,

Below is the latest message from Liz Jack in Gloucestershire. Liz is doing
some contract research for me/us on the Poythress lines in England. I have
to confess that I believe the Woodlief and Wynne connections to the
Poythress family wasn't by accident. This leads me to believe we will find
our links in Gloucestershire and vicinity. Liz is very good and extremely
knowledgeable -- I'm pleased that she has agreed to help us.

Enjoy,

Al Tims
Hi Al

>Will await your survey of the Poythress surname.
>
I have checked all of the IGI counties in mainland England and Wales;
i.e. not Scotland, Ireland nor Isle of Wight or Isle of Man. And I
found no Francis of the right period. I found a Francis christened in
Wiltshire in 1702, a Francis married in Worcestershire in 1673 and again
in 1676, and a Francis christened in 1689, all in Castlemorton. These
might, of course, give us a clue to where the name Francis existed.

I have attached a copy of my results - it took two hours in the end
because I had to check under Poythress, Pewtress and Putrace each time
and generally these were on different fiche each time!

Apart from London (and Cornwall where the name was Potheras so may not
be connected) the vast majority are to be found in Gloucestershire,
Herefordshire and Worcestershire - in fact, mainly just over the border
into WOR and HEF from Newent / Dymock, within 5 to 10 miles.

I am off to the Worcester Record Office tomorrow so will see what they
have on the name.

Liz

------------------------------		05/29/1997 4:48:28
Re: Lori's info from PGCharles NealWay to go, Lori!! Thank you so much for the profitable fieldtrip to the
Prince George court house. Looking forward to learning more as these items
are transcribed, whether by you or by Al or by one of the others of us. We
all stand to gain in insight thanks to your legwork. Thank you.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 5/29/97

------------------------------		05/29/1997 5:11:11
Lori re: new PG County InfoLori: According to Al Tims some of this new material (from which the will
came) has been abstracted by Ben Weisiger (a well known Va. colonial
researcher, published, and who lives in Richmond. I have all of his PG books
and have corresponded with him briefly.

My daughter has apartment in Reston, Va. and is going to Greece for 3 weeks
the end of June. I had planned to set up camp in her apt. and live in the
National Genealogical Society and DAR and other libraries for several days
copying every thing that looks "new" to me.

The appearance of this new material puts a new light on it in the sense that
I certainly don't mind going anywhere in that area if there is PG material
(espescially new) available for photocopying.

While I trust your knowledge of local history far, far more than my own....I
do have one advantage...to wit, that I don't have anything better to do than
"set up shop" in a library, courthouse, whatever for hours or days on end and
feed quarters or dimes into the copy machine.

Therefore, I have a little different question for you....this material is
supposedly now turned up from a source in Cincinnati and is recently
"returned"...."returned" to where? I'll assume for the moment the PG
courthouse but you'll get that answer automatically when you go in here
asking for will book number such and such. If its
NOT the PG courthouse can you find out where is and how one goes about
accessing it, etc. etc?

And if it IS the PG courthouse do they have it segregated and/or do I need
any "credentials" to get at it? And if its not segregated how do I tell the
difference between the old and the new? In other words, "scope out" an
attack plan for me would you? Many, many thanks.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/29/1997 6:18:46
Anne H. YatesBarbara Neal/Barbara Wolfe:

Since I haven't heard anything further from Anne Yates I'll assume she didn't
respond to either of you. I continue stay after her to join our group
because she showed me evidence of being an experienced and dedicated
genealogist as well as an extremely bright individual.......with a Poythress
interest....albeit one with an interesting slant.

Anne: "One of the reasons I'm especially intrigued by the Poythress line is
that it is my matrilineal line. Until I attended the NGS conference this
year (1995) in San Diego......one of the speakers talked about the
inheritance of mitrochrondrial DNA (mtDNA)....no intervening male is in this
lineage...it can be very interesting about genealogical relationships
extending into antiquity, because the mtDNA doesn't change except through
mutations. Who would have thought a few years ago that such research would
be occurring?....."

Never having heard of mtDNA, this lady could be a Flat Earther for all I know
but she
writes like an Oxford Don and has been at the Poythress thing for 10 or more
years;
I'm having a hard time hooking her....if she has just lost interest in
genealogy that's a shame. Anyway, below is copy of one last whack on the
theory that if our page doesn't catch her interest, she's probably out of
reach:

(letterhead)

May 29, 1997

Ms. Anne H. Yates
P. O. Box 2047
Ridgecrest, CA 93556

Dear Anne:

I havent heard from you in some time. I was hoping we might get you
re-addicted to colonial Virginia genealogy.

If you have access to the web please check out our Poythress site:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

I hope you will like it and find something there about your specific
interest.
We are trying to differentiate ourselves from the typical page which stands
up a bare bones tree and starts hanging names on it. On the page, you will
find a
large number of transcriptions of original documents, trial charts, queries,
etc.

If you are on-line you are most certainly invited to join our discussion
group, the instructions for doing so are shown on the page site. We have a
number of people who are on the mailing list but merely audit the
exchanges....we are pleased for that also. They have been known to jump in
when a specific need comes up. We also have a number of researchers of
related families who are simply keeping up with what we are doing because we
are finding new stuff.

Hope you will like the site and decide to join us. I continue to try to
sell you because the quality of your work that I have seen convinces me we
would be helpful to each other.

Warmest personal regards,

MP

Al: if she shows up at the list-meister desk, remember who she is. I think
we can use this lady's talents. Thanks.

Maynard

------------------------------		05/29/1997 10:35:06
Re: Al and Maynard info from PGLori W. PoythressAL, Maynard and List

Prince George built a new courthouse the county records are housed there.
I visited the records room this afternoon and was told that Ledger B,
1711-1713 was indeed a treasure as it was just returned to Prince George 5
years ago. The orginal ledger is in such poor condition that the general
public can only view a copied ledger. I can check to see if you can view
the original. I noticed that some of the pages were indeed missing.... but
not the ones Al had requested ! I have a copy of the deed from page 175-176
, John Poythress. I also copied page 70-71 , and pages 76-77. So who do I
send them to ??
The clerk also told me about a local attorney, Richard Jones, who has
written an unpublished copy title " An Early History of Prince George
County " . They let me look through the copy they had ( you can not make
photocopies ) . They gave me his phone number and said he is a wealth of
knowledge if I would like to contact him. It did contain a page titled "
Evergreen " Brief info on Francis Poythress and military service.
John Poythress born 1640 at Evergreen family house at Deep Bootom, Baylor's
Creek.

Also had the Quit Rent Rolls for Prince George Co taken 1704, listed
Frances Poythwes Sen

I tried to find out where Funnastorah was ... but no luck and time ran
out....
Maynard.... let me know when you visit the area... you can be my mentor and
explain to me what you do and how you do it !!! I'll tag along and watch
you in action and learn a few tricks of the trade .

If you want me to transcribe the will of John Poythress for the list I can
do it ,but it will have to be at another time as my son has a 6:00 baseball
game...and I never miss a ballgame !!
Let me know what else I can find for you.... it was pretty neat !

Lori

------------------------------		05/29/1997 11:08:27
Re: Tabitha PoythressJWinstonHi!
I'm new to this group and I hope this brief analysis will help.
Tabitha's father, Robert Poythress, mentions Col. Richard Bland twice in
his will: as an executor along with his brother William and son-in law
John Gilliam, and as a witness along with William Batte and his brother
William. Could this Richard be the brother or father of his wife?? My
family tradition says that it was Elizabeth Bland that married Robert
Poythress.

This matter becomes more confused because of the number of Elizabeth
Blands found including Beverley/Randolph lines. The number of children
that Robert and Elizabeth have indicates a long marriage during
childbearing years. Did Elizabeth have a first or second marriage?

Congratulations on your fine group. The finding of the will of John
Poythress is exciting!

Elise Courtney H. Markham

------------------------------


05/30/1997 3:31:59
Horse-thief; help please 5/30/97Charles NealOn Batte's chart appears one Edmund Poythress, number 241, shown as son of
David Poythress, number 24. Batte's notes mention that in 1739 son Edmund
came into court (presumably Pr. Geo. Co., VA from the context) and stated
that his father had died without a will. Edmund's surety was David's
brother William Poythress. Batte notes, about Edmund, that "His
qualification as administrator of his father's estate (above) is the only
record we have of him." Accordingly, Batte shows no descendants for
Edmund.

Perhaps other records now available in PG Co could shed more light on
David's estate and/or David's brother(s) and/or children?

I would propose that another reference (below) to an Edmund Poythress could
well be the same fellow (could be true IF the Edmund above had been about
age 21 when going into court re Dad's estate 4 years earlier than the
Edmund below, who seems to be about age 25 some 4 years later). I would
hereby request that Al or someone else with time for perusing the Web could
hopefully get a more complete transcription of the following, since the
VIRGINIA GAZETTE issues MIGHT now be viewable on the Web, rather than only
on microfilm where Maynard's William & Mary student made the photocopy to
which I refer below. Judging from the direction he apparently went, he
could have been fleeing to cousins further south, or maybe he was one of
the first Poythress folk to go further south, into NC, GA, FL or wherever.

[In transcribing below, I have changed the old typeset "f" to "s" as in
"His Majefty" to "His Majesty." Brackets are used, where I have
difficulty reading, as my best guesses]

From the issue of the Virginia Gazette dated 16th of May 1745, page 4,
column 1:
"By the Hon. William Gooch, Esq; His Majesty's Lieutenant-Governor,
and Commander in Chief, of the Colony and Dominion of Virginia
Whereas I have receiv'd credible Information That one Edmund
Poythress, of the County of Prince George, is notoriously guilty of
Horse-stealing; and notwithstanding legal Process has been issued against
him, he so absconded that he cannot be taken, and brought to Justice: And
whereas the said Offence of Horse-stealing is of late [becoming? very?
common?], and a growing Evil, which ought to be [xxxxxxxxx] as much as
possible:
These are [xxxxxxxxxx], in His Majesty's Name, to require and
command all Sherifs, Constables, and others His Majesty's [Liege?] People,
within this Colony; (and to desire all those in the Neighboring
Governments,) to aid and assist in apprehending with [xxxxxx] the said
Edmund Poythress, so that he is brought to Justice; for which this shall be
their Warrant. And it is hereby offer'd a Reward of Four Pounds, to be
paid to any Person or Persons who shall apprehend the said Poythress, so as
be brought to Justice and convicted of the said Crime.
Given under my Hand, at Williamsburg, this 15th Day of May, 1745,
in the Eighteenth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord King GEORGE the
Second. WIlliam Gooch.
The said Poythress is of a middle Stature about 25 Years old, of a
Red Complexion, his Eye-brows and Eye-lashes red, and the Hair of his Head
mix'd red and brown; and has a [large? Mole?] near the Corner of his Mouth.
He usually wears an old light colour'd Cloth Coat, and a red Waistcoat.
He sometimes calls himself [John?] Mitchel. He was lately seen on the
[Road?] to [Carolina?]."

So, Listers, how about it? Can some Web-able person look for this article
from the Virginia Gazette, perhaps at some William & Mary site, and
double-check my transcription (or tranfcription, as they would have typeset
back then), and fill in the missing "xxxxx" words for us? Then once the
transcription is more complete, Al may wish to add our family horsethief to
our Web page.

All for now,

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 5/30/97

------------------------------		05/30/1997 4:47:58
Re: Who is Richard Bland?To Elise Courtney H. Markham:

First off, welcome to the group....I hope you will have a lot of fun.

You asked:

Subj: Re: Tabitha Poythress
Date: 97-05-30 10:56:36 EDT
From: wry@aye.net (JWinston)
Resent-from: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Reply-to: wry@aye.net
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com

Hi!
I'm new to this group and I hope this brief analysis will help.
Tabitha's father, Robert Poythress, mentions Col. Richard Bland twice in
his will: as an executor along with his brother William and son-in law
John Gilliam, and as a witness along with William Batte and his brother
William. Could this Richard be the brother or father of his wife?? My
family tradition says that it was Elizabeth Bland that married Robert
Poythress.

This matter becomes more confused because of the number of Elizabeth
Blands found including Beverley/Randolph lines. The number of children
that Robert and Elizabeth have indicates a long marriage during
childbearing years. Did Elizabeth have a first or second marriage?

Congratulations on your fine group. The finding of the will of John
Poythress is exciting!

Elise Courtney H. Markham

Could this Richard be the brother or father of his(Robert's) wife? Entirely
possible because, unless corrected, I don't think we even have Robert's wife;
or, at least the Batte chart leaves the positon open.

I'll suggest as only a "possible" the following alternative based on the
Bolling Batte trial chart:

1) Richard Bland could be suggested as Robert's nephew-in-law. Peter
Poythress of Flowerdew Hundred (brother of Robert) m. Anne _____. Their only
daughter Anne (1721-1758) m. a Richard Bland. Thus this Richard is
nephew-in-law if he is indeed the Richard Bland of the will.

2) Peter Poythress of Branchester (1715-1785), son of Robert, married
Elizabeth Bland, daughter of Richard and Anne (Poythress) Bland, thus
marrying his first cousin once removed or his second cousin, whichever term
is correct.

Elise, just because these connections suggest an intimate relationship
between the two families, I wouldn't think that we should rule out Robert
having married an Elizabeth Bland but if so the time frame suggests that it
would more likely have been Richard's mother than a sister. In fact, Robert
marrying a Bland might indeed have possibly triggered the relationships in
the next generation. Those folks had a habit of marrying close to home.

Additionally, and I don't consider this heavy evidence but only worth
mentioning, the make up of the 3 appointed to oversee the division of the
land is interesting. Appointees were William (brother), Richard Bland
(nephew-in-law using the above assumption) and John Gilliam (son-in-law..m.
Robert's daughter Elizabeth). A number of those old fellows had a resistance
to appointing a next generation individual or an individual "with something
to gain" in the matter of property division. Since Robert was willing to
appoint both a son (Joshua) and son-in-law (John Gilliam) along with Richard
Bland it at least says Robert didn't have this objection and indeed had
respect and confidence for Richard Bland and the other two.

Also, you say your family tradition has Robert m. an Elizabeth Bland. A bit
of support for that is that Robert and wife named a daughter Elizabeth and
that family was quite big on naming a daughter (sometimes even two) for their
mother.

Your second question re Blands among the Randolphs, which (I think) jumps
ahead to assume this marriage between Robert Poythress and an Elizabeth
Bland...seems to me to also lend some credence to your family
tradition....unless Tabitha (Poythress) Randolph for some reason was
unusually close to her sister-in-law Elizabeth Bland Poythress(2), Bland
would not seem to be a name one would feel compelled to sprinkle into
following generations of Randolphs by their mother.

Elise, all of the data above can be picked up off of the R. Bolling Batte
"Chart of the Poythress Family in Virginia" which is on the web site.
However, it is on the page only in narrative form and to pull complicated
relationships out of it (otherwise a real bear) is made much easier by a 17 x
11 chart Mr. Batte prepared to go with the narrative.

While Mr. Batte, as demonstrated, was not complete and not even always
accurate, he is a darn good place to start. Looking at the chart makes using
the narrative much, much easier. In anticipation of this, I made a gazillion
photocopies of the chart and have mailed copies to a number of people on the
list. If you (or anybody else on the line for that matter) would like to
send me your snail mail address I'd be pleased to get you out a copy same
day.

Hope the above helps, and again, welcome to the group.

Maynard Poythress
(VKRatliff@aol.com)

------------------------------		05/30/1997 7:57:57
Long Awaited Land Patent Resource Now AvailableTIMSPoythress List,

I late night excursion into the Library of Virginia led me to discover that
the Electronic Card Catalog for Land Patents and Grants NOW has the actual
image of the documents available online. I don't mean just the card index
image. By clicking on retrieve document, once you've found the card you
want, you will be able to see a full text image of the actual patent/grant
book. It takes a little time for the image to load, but certainly is worth
the wait. I will put one of the early Francis P. patents up on the Web
site, but don't plan to pull all down because of the space requirements.

The web address is:
http://image.vtls.com/collections/LO.html

I haven't seen this announced on the VARoots list yet (may have missed it),
but I expect it will happen soon. When announced, don't be surprised if
the site gets swamped.

Note: You can print the images or save them to a file. If you visit and
find something of particular interest I'd like to know about it for
possible inclusion on our web site.

Finally, I have added a table to the Research in England pages showing the
number of Poythress (variant) named identified in the All County IGI search
Liz Jack did for us in England. You'll see that there can be no doubt that
Gloucestershire is the most promising area -- by far. Liz is out today
researching other local parish records. I feel that it won't be long
before we have a good general survey of the extant records -- at least in
Gloucestershire.

Best,
Al Tims

p.s. -- Liz tells me that she is having trouble loading some of our web
pages (pages load on top of other pages). Please alert me if you
experience problems of this nature. I can't seem to duplicate the problem
using either Netscape or MS Internet Explorer, although I'm using the
latest release of both.

------------------------------


05/31/1997 3:39:12
Re: "Doubled Pages"Yep, I have 'em.....typically appears about the 3rd or 4th page down in a
"scroll" mode. I mentioned to you once and you said no one else had the
problem so I figured it was my PC and put it on list to ask my 'puter doctor
about when he gets back from Mexico.

MP		05/31/1997 5:15:37
Edmund Poythress - Virginia GazettaTIMSPoythress List,

Re: Barbara Poythress Neal's Post on Edmund Poythress

I have not found an online archive with the text of the Virginia Gazette
currently available. So, I've done the next best thing -- I put the image
of the newspaper announcement she sites up on our web page. It is linked
to the images button.

If you want to go to it directly the page address is:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/edmund.html

Warning: This is a fairly big file and might take a minute or two to load.
It looks GREAT -- even if I say so myself. If you have Netscape as your
browser you'll be able to right click on the image and select "view image"
to see it in an even larger format -- I MEAN LARGE! In this format each
character in each word will be shown in great detail.

Below is part of Barbara's original query -- with the words she has in
question set in brackets.

From the issue of the Virginia Gazette dated 16th of May 1745, page 4,
column 1:
"By the Hon. William Gooch, Esq; His Majesty's Lieutenant-Governor,
and Commander in Chief, of the Colony and Dominion of Virginia
Whereas I have receiv'd credible Information That one Edmund
Poythress, of the County of Prince George, is notoriously guilty of
Horse-stealing; and notwithstanding legal Process has been issued against
him, he so absconded that he cannot be taken, and brought to Justice: And
whereas the said Offence of Horse-stealing is of late (1) [becoming? very?
common?], and a growing Evil, which ought to be (2) [xxxxxxxxx] as much as
possible:
These are (3) [xxxxxxxxxx], in His Majesty's Name, to require and
command all Sherifs, Constables, and others His Majesty's (4) [Liege?]
People,
within this Colony; (and to desire all those in the Neighboring
Governments,) to aid and assist in apprehending with (5) [xxxxxx] the said
Edmund Poythress, so that he is brought to Justice; for which this shall be
their Warrant. And it is hereby offer'd a Reward of Four Pounds, to be
paid to any Person or Persons who shall apprehend the said Poythress, so as
be brought to Justice and convicted of the said Crime.
Given under my Hand, at Williamsburg, this 15th Day of May, 1745,
in the Eighteenth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord King GEORGE the
Second. WIlliam Gooch.
The said Poythress is of a middle Stature about 25 Years old, of a
Red Complexion, his Eye-brows and Eye-lashes red, and the Hair of his Head
mix'd red and brown; and has a [large? Mole?] near the Corner of his Mouth.
He usually wears an old light colour'd Cloth Coat, and a red Waistcoat.
He sometimes calls himself [John?] Mitchel. He was lately seen on the
[Road?] to [Carolina?]."

I'll be interested to see how effectively we can use this to assist with
the transcription.

Best,

Al Tims		06/01/1997 11:41:05
Even a Blind Hog.....finds an acorn now and then.

Guy calls last night....(script I been in dozen times):"....This is Earl
Hines down here in Mableton, Georgia....say, I saw this guy's name as our
Labor Commissioner and called his office to say I had some Poythress'es
hanging in my tree back there somewhere....nice lady treated me royally but
said the Commish don't know nothin' 'bout no genealogy( or birthin' babies
either), phone his brother in Louisville and here's his number...so I'm
phoning!

Earl: "I been corresponding with this lady over in Nawth Carolina who has
these "papers about some guy named Thomas Poythress and his wife
Martha/Patsey moving to Georgia and carrying a bunch of sons with 'em named
Meredith, George, Edward, and leaving one of the boys back in Virginia by
name of Lewis in a county that starts with an "M" ....and one of the brothers
moves to Florida from Georgia and dies down there...and a ton of other
Poythress stuff like that....you wouldn't be interested by any chance would
you?"

Okay, troops, you can stop snickering now. Your humble servant spent hour on
phone romancing him (his nickel) and promising him 20 pounds of stuff....he
is a Meredith descendant by the way (Bud, I'm not sure if its from your
Meredith wife or mine but I'll know shortly). Got said stuff out to him
priority mail this morning!
Mr. Hines swears copies of all his stuff in mail this week...along with the
name and address of the lady in North Carolina. All you N. C. folks, this
may be your big break! I hope the big fat priority mail package hits him
tomorrow morning and refreshes his memory.

Maybe another false alarm but this guy just dropped too many names in the
right places to be a phoney! Will share his missile the minute it lands.
Apologies for boring all you folks without the Georgia connections....but
this thread, as Bud and Barbara have been suggesting all along, has a chance
to hook about a half dozen of us together on the chart.

Best to all.....where you been anyway.....COUNT OFF, TROOPS, you still there?

Maynard

P. S. Lou Poole, talk about "laboring in the vineyards"....shoot, you have
done more work on an "allied" family than most folks have done on their own
"direct" line...I printed it all and am still digesting it. I'm just plain
in awe of a guy who can put down that kind of stuff. You still giving
autographs?		06/02/1997 7:28:24
Francis Poythress - 1609W. David SamuelsenThis is what I dug up.

Frauncis POYTHRES
christening 12 Jul 1609, Newent, Gloucester, England
son of John POYTHRES
nothing said of mother.

Is this our Francis?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W. David Samuelsen
Will Testators Indexes Online
Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~		06/02/1997 8:54:11
Re: Francis Poythress - 1609TIMSW. David,

This is our best candidate and appears to be the same person one of the
Poythress researchers in England suggested. Can you share with us the
source for this reference?

This Francis would have been in his early 20s at the time of our first
Virginia references. We need to keep in mind that the Lawrence Evans
lawsuit (1637/8) mentions that the "other" Factor died during the voyage
from England. I have not seen the full text of these records -- just the
LVA survey we have on the web pages. Obviously, we need to study the full
account. My hope is that it might name the other factor and the
circumstances of the voyage.

Thanks a million for bringing this back to the front burner!

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: W. David Samuelsen
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Francis Poythress - 1609
> Date: Monday, June 02, 1997 9:54 PM
>
> This is what I dug up.
>
> Frauncis POYTHRES
> christening 12 Jul 1609, Newent, Gloucester, England
> son of John POYTHRES
> nothing said of mother.
>
> Is this our Francis?
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> W. David Samuelsen
> Will Testators Indexes Online
> Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~		06/02/1997 9:14:54
William Poythress Estate Sale - 8 Jan 1775TIMSPoythress List,

I have added to our web pages a copy of the description of the estate sale
for William Poythress published in the Virginia Gazette on 23 Dec 1774.

The page address is:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/wpestate.html

As with the Edmund Poythress image -- a right click and view image (using
Netscape) will give you a very large view, although this clip is fairly
easy to read.

The announcement describes the sale of all the personal estate, plantation
utensils, crops, livestock and slaves (separate sale) at Little Roanoke, in
Charlotte County; at the Butterwood Quarter in Dinwiddie County; and at the
Tomheaton Quarter.

This is a wonderful artifact and raises some very interesting questions.
Who were his executors? Who inherited the land? Well, all of us know the
questions. I would be most interested in anything anyone might contribute
on these points.

Best,

Al Tims		06/02/1997 12:53:26
Flowerdew Hundred BookCraig Scott:

I have nothing but respect for your good taste in not letting Willowbend
"commercial announcements" intrude on the page....but as Lyndon Johnson (I
think) said: "there are times when one has to rise above principle". I'll
suggest this may be one of them. In fact, I'll encourage you if that will
take you somewhat off the hook.

If you stock the Jim Deetz book on Flowerdew Hundred why don't you post us up
a "tout" on it simply because it is so important with Poythress references
and so few people even know the thing exists. My guess is you'd get some
orders.

And....to really jazz it up, if you put a full Nelson on Jim Deetz to
autograph a pile of them with some generically cloying mention of "members"
of Poythress "family" on the frontispiece, those suckers would fly off your
shelves to list members. (but YOU figure out what Jim ought to say). And,
at only $25 or so a pop they are great gifts for family members.

Excuse the residue of the old peddler left in me saying "gimmie that
briefcase, I'll show you"...but hope you decide to do it, especially the
Deetz inscription part.

Maynard		06/03/1997 1:28:10
Flowerdew Hundred (aka "FD")A thought (always dangerous from me):

I am an acquaintance of the Administrator of the Flowerdew Hundred Foundation
who sets up shop at Flowerdew. She is a neat person and a delight to work
with. (since all I have done is send a little money I guess she OUGHT to be a
delight to work with).

Anyway here is proposition:

I write Libbie, tell her the P. page is up, here is the address and we would
be gratified if she would share it with any FD visitors interested in the P.
family. Yeah, the odds are probable that we'll get a "consumer" of
information rather than a "contributor"....but hey, we never said public
service wasn't a part of our obligation in this deal. And even if its only
100 to 1 we'll find another Lou Poole (don't let that one go to your head,
Lou) I'm willing to take the gamble. And even with the long odds against
hooking a contributor at all, anyone we do hook stands some chance of living
over there and that, as we have seen, is certainly a plus. And at even
longer odds we may get a sorcerer's apprentice for our trade.

Second part: say, Libbie, inasmuch as there is FD info on the page
incidental to the P. family, how would you like to put up your VERY OWN FD
sub-page on the P. page, with illustration(s) if you wish?

You can submit your own text, it can be FD "generic" if you wish (and I
suspect they would so wish)....or, shoot, it can be an "advertisement" for
all we care since you are a non-profit deal and everything you do is done in
good taste anyway. Heck, post your hours and directions to get there too if
you wish, just whatever....although at some place on this page you should
mention P. connection only if to help potential page-readers understand the
"linkage".

Do I hear a second? Do I hear any amendments/restrictions, etc. which will
be welcomed? Any violently held opinions? Want me to go ahead?

Maynard		06/03/1997 1:28:32
Re: Even a Blind Hog; & Re: Warren Poythress, etc.Hey Maynard,

I forgot to mention: I've never had an "Uncle Ed" that I know of,
unless you want to count "Mr. Ed, the mule!" Would be a nice name to add to
my uncles list though!

Besides, if we can run him down too, think of all the new and addtional
cousins we just might find?

Say, was that horse thief named "Edward" or "Edmund"? Just
kidding......

Keep going man, and keep the faith!.........

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com)

06/03/1997 4:31:59
Re: Flowerdew Hundred (aka "FD")Full speed ahead!!
Barbara and Bill

06/03/1997 4:39:56
Re: Flowerdew Hundred (aka "FD")TIMSMaynard,

I'd love to have some "authorized" FD info on the pages. Go for it.

Al

06/03/1997 5:09:49
RE: lpooleJames L. PooleI'm flattered by the interest in the chart(s), and I don't know how one could
print them directly from the web page. But....

Al had to take some liberties with the copy of my Poythress family history in
order to convert the original copy in Microsoft Word format into something that
would work on the web page. I made the charts with ABC Flowcharter, but can
convert the charts to a .wmf graphics format that print on two single pages
(when loaded into some appropriate application, such as a wordprocessor, or
almost any graphics program that can import a .wmf graphic format.)

So, if anyone is truly interested in a printable version (can't imagine why)
just send me your request, and I'll reply with a copy of the graphic.

Lou Poole

On Tuesday, June 03, 1997 11:15 AM, VKRatliff@aol.com [SMTP:VKRatliff@aol.com]
wrote:
> Al.....I'd be interested in that answer to Bill's question re printing
> charts.
>
> Thanks,
>
> MP		06/03/1997 5:12:50
RE: Flowerdew Hundred (aka "FD")James L. PooleI should probably be considered biased on the issue, but I think it would be
great to establish a link (and in the broad sense of the word, not just hompage
lingo) with "FD." It's part of our history, after all.

Lou Poole

On Tuesday, June 03, 1997 2:29 PM, VKRatliff@aol.com [SMTP:VKRatliff@aol.com]
wrote:
> Do I hear a second? Do I hear any amendments/restrictions, etc. which will
> be welcomed? Any violently held opinions? Want me to go ahead?
>
> Maynard		06/03/1997 5:18:13
Re: lpooleWilliam A BridgforthAl,

Just tried to print "lpoole" re: Poythress/Walls. I got 32 pages, BUT
page 25 which is the Poythress Family Tree Chart didn't print in total.
Only the left side printed. Can that be re-done so all charts fall
within the standard area of printing, or is there a secret to printing
"wide stuff" that I don't know about?

Thanks again for the WONDERFUL web page.

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com		06/03/1997 5:20:47
Re: lpooleTIMSLou & List,

The charts in Lou's Poythress chapter are loaded as separate .GIF images.
All this means is that you can right click on the chart and download or
print each on individually. Once you have the chart downloaded it is an
easy matter to resize it to something of your liking. If anyone has
trouble with this I can send them along as a message attachment.

I hope to soon add several of Lou's other chapters on allied families.
What a wonderful resource for us to have. Lou's generosity is simply
wonderful!

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: James L. Poole
> To: 'POYTHRESS List'
> Subject: RE: lpoole
> Date: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 6:12 PM
>
> I'm flattered by the interest in the chart(s), and I don't know how one
could
> print them directly from the web page. But....
>
> Al had to take some liberties with the copy of my Poythress family
history in
> order to convert the original copy in Microsoft Word format into
something that
> would work on the web page. I made the charts with ABC Flowcharter, but
can
> convert the charts to a .wmf graphics format that print on two single
pages
> (when loaded into some appropriate application, such as a wordprocessor,
or
> almost any graphics program that can import a .wmf graphic format.)
>
> So, if anyone is truly interested in a printable version (can't imagine
why)
> just send me your request, and I'll reply with a copy of the graphic.
>
> Lou Poole
>
> On Tuesday, June 03, 1997 11:15 AM, VKRatliff@aol.com
[SMTP:VKRatliff@aol.com]
> wrote:
> > Al.....I'd be interested in that answer to Bill's question re printing
> > charts.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > MP		06/03/1997 6:25:31
Biff, Bam, BoomJackpot....again, we hope!

Below is reply from one of the UK ladies that Pat Crewe told me was
interested in the family. I have answered and extended warmest welcome.
Suggest a couple or so of us besides me send her an encouraging welcome and
e-mail....maybe one of the ladies so Ceri won't think we are only a bunch of
old goats...of welcome, etc. etc.

Just think, folks! We have jumped 3000 miles!

Maynard

Subj: POYTHRESS
Date: 97-06-03 19:16:04 EDT
From: Stephen@semlyn.demon.co.uk (Stephen Emlyn-Jones)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com

Ceri Lewis has shown me a copy of your letter to her dated the 25th May.
She & I work in the same office.
In fact I got her started with family history & also gave her a UK
Poythress contact from the Web.
I have visited your Web site & will be taking some copies of pages to
show Ceri.I have also subscribed to the mailing list.
I am happy to act as a link until such time as I can persuade Ceri to
get on line.
We are not so far advanced this side of the Atlantic as you are:-(
I am not sure how far Ceri has got with her research - not very far I
think - on her Poythress connection.
By the way I can tell you that the name is NOT Welsh.I have had some 30
years experience in Welsh genealogy & have never come across the name.It
does not feature in any of the standard works on Welsh names.I do speak
Welsh & the name does not convey anything to me.
I would imagine that it would be quite easy for Ceri to trace her line
back since the name is so rare & perhaps connect in with the main tree.
Best wishes
Stephen Emlyn-Jones
--
Stephen Emlyn-Jones
Bridgend http://www.semlyn.demon.co.uk/
Wales Stephen@semlyn.demon.co.uk
researching(England Wales & Scotland)TUCKER,EDWARDS,MONK,HOOK,BRITTAIN,
STEPHENS,LOVELL,DENNING,HAMILTON,HENDERSON,PORTEOUS,INGRAM,MURKS,GRIFFIN,
CREECH,SPARY,MATTHEWS,GILL,HICKS,BOWREY,MARDON,BISHOP,JEFFREY,BURNARD,
SMITH,FRANCOMBE,JENKINS,PURDY,BOWEN,JONES,DAVIES,JONES.		06/03/1997 6:29:21
Robert Poythress circa 1776-77 raiding servants in VA for Georgia ServiceTIMSPoythress List,

We have two more images to our growing collection of clips from the
Virginia Gazette. The two new items are for one Robert Poythress, and
officer, who appears to have been gathering up indentured servants and
running them down to Georgia for military service under Capt. Scott. Maybe
Craig Scott can tell us more about this Capt. Scott.

I figure this fellow likely connects with Edmund the Horse Thief and with
Robert the Indian Gun Runner. 🙂 All these rouges seemed to migrate to
Georgia. Humm.... Maybe this explains things pretty well. Seriously, I
find this a very interesting artifact and would love to see it placed in
context.

So far, I've not received word that any of you have seen the Virginia
Gazette clips. I presume they are loading correctly (note, some will be
slow because of sheer size for the resolution required for close
inspection). Sure would like to see someone take a shot at Barbara
Poythress Neal's translation query. I believe our image is clear enough to
do a good job with it.

All for now,

Al Tims

06/03/1997 6:35:21
Excuse meTIMSPoythress list,

Delete this message once you've read it. I just looked at my most recent
posts and was shocked to see how poorly I had edited/proofed my messages.
My apologies.

Al Tims

06/03/1997 6:43:41
Re: Blind HogsCharles NealMaynard,

That is FANTASTIC !! I will gladly pay you for photocopies of every
smidgeon of info you get on this one, even if there is 3 lbs of stuff I
already have mixed in with the gold.

Keep up the good schmoozing -- remember it probably helps the next Guv of
Gawgia, too.

AY!
BPN		06/03/1997 9:03:39
Re: Flowerdew Hundred (aka "FD")Charles NealMaynard,

Hear, Hear !! (And my best regards to Libbie, who is every bit as great as
you say. It was Libbie, by the way, who introduced me to you as best I
recall.)

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

06/03/1997 9:03:42
Welcome back, BudCharles NealBud,

Good to hear from you again. I, too, have been limping along during a
MAJOR computer crash of our main machine. My resident 'puter wizard hubby
should be allowing me to have access to it again any week now after he
finishes all the tedious reloading and rebuilding of screwed-up stuff.
Our best to Merle-
Ay!
BPN 6/3/97		06/03/1997 9:03:52
Re: lpooleCharles NealAl,

Would greatly appreciate you sending them directly to me. Thanks

BPN

06/03/1997 9:03:55
William Poythress Estate Sale - 8 Jan 1775Charles NealAl,
Tonight I finally got to read captioned message. No future yet on me being
able to visit the web page. Can you send me an email transcript of the
estate sale info, please?
Thanks
Ay,
BPN

06/03/1997 9:04:01
Re: lpooleAl.....I'd be interested in that answer to Bill's question re printing
charts.

Thanks,

MP

06/03/1997 10:14:31
Re: Even a Blind Hog; & Re: Warren PoythressHey Maynard, -- You're on the right trail and the scent is hot! And all I
can say is .....Wow Man!

Seems you may have "hit gold in dem thar hills!" And seems brother
David is useful in other aspects and not just stuff related to and/or with
'labor' problems......

The Commish may "know nuttin' 'bout birthin' babies" but seems he
recognizes the 'nose of that blood hound' is still a-pointin' and a-workin'
in the right wind! And I'm delighted he steered the good fellow, Mr Earl
Hines of Mableton, GA, in your direction. Sounds like you just might have
hit pay dirt, or at least may be on to something 'really big' that has been
long lost..... to us that is. Can hardly wait for the next chapter!

It did seem a little like vacation time to me these past few days!
Just a slight resting period in Poythress research activity, I guess.
And one much deserved I might add.

But in my case, my 'puters went down for the past week. Seems I put it
to sleep on evening and it refused to wake up..... The sleep button
(hardware) broke so had to take her in for some warranty 'wake-up' treatment.
And while there I discussed a couple other minor operational problems I seem
to be experiencing. You know, "Dummy type questions", and I've got all the
Dummy books too! I wanted to make sure it wasn't just stupid me and I was
pleased to hear him suggest I might try and "re-install both the microsoft
windows software and the H/P printer".

So I called on my "expert ....'puter installer David.." and seems he
brought his "older" vintage microsoft version (he said he liked his version
better than the one that came with my computer) and installed it -- rather
than my later version. Needless to say that since all my files were
previously developed using the later version, my files are now "all royally
screwed up"!

So, I've now de-moted him to just "my 'puter --pert". I've dropped the
"ex-"..... for now anyway.

Attn: Maynard and Patti -- on previous subject Warren Poythress: I ran
across a note in my files, I believe I got this info from your Mom, Maynard
(Ms Dorothy). That "The Macon (GA) Telegraph" sometimes around 1975 (?)
published an article on the death of "a Warren Poythress - without the
"John"! Seems the paper reported that he (Warren Poythress) died one day and
his wife died the next (following) day, or was it the other way around (i.e.
she died first) ? Anyway, are we talking about the same "Warren Poythress",
or are these 2 different persons - one "Warren", the other "John Warren"
Poythress? This was your battle-ground Maynard - the Macon area!
I have no information as to where they are buried but probably in Macon
someplace.

Some speculations (If we are talking about the same Warren): I don't
have John Warren's birth nor death dates, however, I do have him listed as
the 4th of 8 children born to William E. & Martha J. Poythress of Screven
County, GA. Namely : 1 - Idella (1859-1883); 2 - Thomas Boston
(1860-1937); 3 - William E., Jr. ( ?); 4 - John Warren - (?); 5 - Robert
L. (1867-1935); 6 - Gazzie H. (1879-1969); 7th - Bessie (1886-1980); and
8th - Willie (?).

(The birth dates of the last 3 children (6 - Gazzie H. took 12 years to
show up in 1879, and another 7 years before Bessie arrived in 1886 and (?)
seem a little odd;
and the 8th child, Willie may be even more questionable?).

And Maynard, according to a cousin of yours, Wendell Austin of
Newington, GA -- there was a - "Clisby" Poythress, reported to have been a
brother to Gazzie and is probably one and the same as James C(lisby)
Poythress (b 1885 d. 1950) who married Bessie M. (b. 1887 d 1966) that would
make him also a son of William E. and Martha Poythress. All other info here
came from either the History of Screven County, GA or was copied from grave
markers in the North Newington Baptist Church Cemetary, (including Clisby &
Bessie's grave markers).

Assuming all of the above correct, this would place our John Warren to
have been born between 1860 and 1867 which sounds "about right" according to
his brides birth date-- he married Louisana Hortense Lucas on 1/11/1892 and
(she was b.4/27/1870 d. 9/19/1969)! Then they would have been married for
77(?) years for she would have been 99 years old when she died in 1969
(1892-1969 is 77 years). Of course that article in the Macon Telegraph in
above 1975 may have simply been an article about their unusual marriage
rather than an obituary notice(.) --- and maybe old John Warren DID make it
100+! Good stock, I'd say.

Anxiously for your next posting, from the "Blind Hog", acorns and all,
Maynard!

And Cuz, keep rooting.

Bud (BPoythress@aol.net) (June 3rd, 1997)		06/03/1997 11:00:30
William Poythress Plantation RentalTIMSPoythress List,

As an extension of the previously announced addition of the Estate Sale for
William Poythress, I have added an image of an announcement in the Virginia
Gazette of the rental of William's plantation near Blandford. This is an
interesting document because it describes the location of the plantation
and the plantation itself. This rental is being administered by Peter
Poythress. This is a relatively clear copy, although I'm still having some
trouble with the very last word. This word tells where one is to find
Peter Poythress.

The direct link is:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/wprental.html

This is a relatively small file and should load fairly quickly.

Best,

Al Tims		06/03/1997 12:18:08
Re: William Poythress Plantation RentalTIMSPoythress List,

Re the following:

> This is a relatively clear copy, although I'm still having some
> trouble with the very last word. This word tells where one is to find
> Peter Poythress.

I forgot to mention that I "believe" the last word is "Premises". This
would mean that Col. Peter Poythress lived next to William Poythress
roughly four miles outside of Blandford.

Best,
Al Tims

06/03/1997 12:24:21
Newent parish registerStephen Emlyn-JonesIn message <970604133743_-1263321329@emout06.mail.aol.com>,
VKRatliff@aol.com writes
>

>Whilst looking round Newent church we met a lady who told us that the early
>registers of Newent had been destroyed as they had been stored in the church
>tower and there had been a fire. If this is correct it is going to be very
>difficult for me to get any further but I shall look again next time we go to
>Gloucester.
The earliest Registers do indeed start in 1672 over 130 years later than
they could have.According to Biglands History of Gloucester the nave of
the church collapsed in 1673 so this may be the reason.
However there are Bishops Transcripts(contemporary copies) dating from
1597 at the Gloucester Record Office & whilst these will not survive for
every year in general for Gloucester the position is as follows.
For the last years of the 16th century only a few years may remain,&
until about 1640 there are often only perhaps about a dozen.There is
invariably a gap in the sequence from about 1640 until about 1660 or
1661(English Civil war) with a few missing until about 1680 so you may
be lucky.
Perhaps with wills & other materials it may be possible to piece
together a tree.
>Best wishes, Pat Crewe
>
Best wishes
Stephen Emlyn-Jones
--
Stephen Emlyn-Jones
Bridgend http://www.semlyn.demon.co.uk/
Wales Stephen@semlyn.demon.co.uk		06/04/1997 2:06:40
Flowerdew HundredHearing no oppositon or suggestions, I proceeded, I hope with only minor
league
"puffery". Copy below.

(letterhead)

June 4, 1997

Ms. Elizabeth B. Myrick, Administrator
The Flowerdew Hundred Foundation
1617 Flowerdew Hundred Road
Hopewell, Virginia 23860

Dear Libbie:

I hope you will be interested to learn that a group of Poythress genealogy
folks have a
homepage up on the internet now. The address is:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

If you have or can find access to the net I think you would enjoy reviewing
our efforts. We think the page, its index and many sub-pages are
professional in every way. As opposed to many genealogy groups, we
differentiate ourselves by posting many original documents (well,
transcriptions anyway). We insist on first rate scholarship or we dont post
it. In addition, Flowerdew material gets included quite often as a part of
our research efforts incidental to the many family members with a Flowerdew
Hundred connection.

Instructions for joining a Poythress genealogy e-mail discussion group are
shown on the home- page. We have a number of non-Poythress members who
enroll only for the excellence of the colonial Virginia material that is
posted. Viewing the pages is of course free; joining the discussion group is
also free but optional...many people are still shy about the internet.

With respect to this homepage, two things come to my mind:

First, if the page meets your approval, we would certainly have no objection
to you and your staff sharing this address with any of your visitors who
express an interest in the Poythress family and have access to an on-line
service. I will say that we fully realize that this publicity is likely to
get us many more questions than answers. Thats perfectly okay, we
understand and accept that in this instance a public educational obligation
comes with the territory.

Second, we would be most pleased to offer the Flowerdew Foundation the
opportunity to
add a sub-page (or pages) specifically about Flowerdew to the website.
This could take almost any form you would like. Illustrations would be
fine, for instance a line drawing of the windmill or something on that order.
Your own copy would be very satisfactory with regard to what you wished to
emphasize in the text of a page. In fact, tastefully advertising Flowerdew
with hours and directions would certainly not be out of order. After all,
you are non-profit just as are we. We would not ask that you tout the
Poythress angle but some brief explanation of the linkage would serve to let
the first time page reader know the connection between the two.

Libbie, I hope this will be of interest to you and your board. I wouldnt
suggest it if I didnt think it would be consistent with the good taste and
professionalism associated with the Flowerdew foundation. If you are
interested, just get back to me and I would be happy to put you in touch with
the gentleman who handles all of the technical aspects of adding material to
the page. There would be no charge to Flowerdew; in fact we would be honored
by the association. I can be reached at the address above or if you have
access to e-mail I am VKRatliff@aol.com.

From time to time, I hear back from people who have visited Flowerdew in the
several years since I have been there. Im sure you will be pleased to hear
that all of these visitors are uniformly delighted with the outstanding
public service you and your dedicated people are doing.

Warmest personal regards,		06/04/1997 2:33:30
Hello and Welcome!Great to hear from you, Pat. Happy the page was interesting to you....we work
hard to make it a good one. Your are our "inaugural" overseas contact via
e-mail so we are very proud of you.

May I encourage you to join the "discussion group" via e-mail? Instructions
are on the webpage. You can participate to any extent you wish. Realizing
that "downstream" genealogy is not normally a matter of compelling interest,
you may prefer to only audit the proceedings as a matter of curiousity and we
would be excited to have you join us that way if you preferred not to be
fully immersed. I belong to a couple of such groups on that basis myself.
Its quite easy to scan the messages between members and just click them off
with the "delete" button when they don't have anything of specific interest
to me.

By way of introduction, I'm asking Al Tims, our list guru, to provide you
with our group list which has names and a brief bio line or two on each
member. If you are new to the "net" that is uncomfortable enough to begin
with....the list is intended to fix it where new members won't feel like they
are talking to complete strangers.

I absolutely will be delighted to have the copy of the land document
concerning John Poydresse. I will make sure it is scanned and published to
the entire group of us
(which I suspect is 15 or so of us).

And Pat, we really would like copies of the 3 wills (one John, two Thomases)
and I will be pleased to reimburse you for copying and postage costs.
Christian names are not usually good "threads" to work from but these have
the very names on our string (Francis, John, Thomas). I'm fairly confident
that as soon as we nail Francis down we will be looking for the connection
with these gentlemen. So, if I could impose on you I would be deeply
appreciative.

With respect to the "Welsh" origin of the name, I think we have about been
pushed out of that belief by now.....several scholarly types with credentials
enough to be
very emphatic took us to task. Your mentions of Fownhope and Newent suggest
"coming in from the west" as an origin. This is a fairly slim reed to lean
on but our current speculation is Cornwall, having found several Poytheras
families in St. Just
in early 1500s. In any event, I'm sure solving this one is only a matter of
tugging at enough threads and we'll get there sooner or later, especially now
that we have "an agent in the field".

Pat, I thought I had a pretty fair sense of UK history but when I read mail
and e-mail from over there I quickly realize that history is not the same
thing as precise geography since I typically scurry for my Atlas several
times in a message. I hope that we can give you a general orienting sense of
the Poythress immigrations out of colonial Virginia.

With that thought the following observations are ONLY generalities (and also
likely to offend a list member so I'll apologize in advance). Francis is
generally accepted by the American genealogical community to be the first and
ONLY immigrant to bring the name to the continent. Spelling variations abound
as I suspect they do in the UK. Francis appears in Charles City County,
Virginia in 1633. The general locale of Virginia family settlements was
Prince George County (city of Petersburg) with a tendency to drift to
southwest Virginia (Mecklenburg County) and/or directly south over the North
Carolina border with Virginia. North Carolina has the greatest number of
Poythresses although surprisingly they are not nearly a majority in our group
and we suspect that is a matter of our just not yet having found most of
them.

Along the way there were several abrupt out-migrations of considerable
distance from Virginia. For example, one group moved directly to the state
of Georgia because the government was offering free land in lotteries in
order to encourage settlers in what was then a frontier. Another group went
from Mecklenburg County, Virginia to middle west Alabama and some of them
subsequently drifted into what is now the state of Mississippi.

In a very general sense, and with one exception that comes to mind, we are
all
Southerners....or at least our origins are in the American South. The
Virginia Company was, after all, a crown operation and the early Virginians
were Southerners and very much Tories at least in the beginning. They
favored the cavalier names of Francis, Thomas, John etc. as opposed to the
bibilical names favored by the Puritans who by and large went north to "New
England" and in large part stayed there.

Our genealogical task is much complicated by the destruction of many records
during the 1861-65 War for Southern Independence. The family situs was a
plantation called Flowerdew Hundred (originally granted to the first colonial
governor of Virginia who couldn't tolerate the Virginia and returned to
England). Flowerdew is the precise spot where a large part of the Federal
army encamped during a nine month seige of Petersburg, Virginia. Casualties
were the Poythress family cemetery on Flowerdew, the Prince George County
Courthouse and the courthouses of several surrounding counties. The net-net
is that the absence of many records forces one to do some degree of
speculating with respect to genealogical constructs.

Pat, again, welcome and many thanks for your contributions which are very
much appreciated. We hope you will find your on-line genealogy to be what
most of us have found; that is, it is simply ten times more fun. No postage,
instant communication, a world of resources, etc. are nothing to be sneezed
at.

Warmest personal regards,

Maynard		06/04/1997 2:38:28
Digest Version and UpdatesTIMSPoythress List,

We now have a "digest" version of this list for those of you who would
prefer to have messages batched into groups of 20 or so at a time. So far,
we have two of our 26 current subscribers on the digest version.

I will add instructions to the web page for switching to the DIGEST
version. However, we are small enough for me to make the changes for
subscribers. Just send me a note if/when you want to switch. The delay in
receiving messages posted to the list could be several days -- depending on
the message traffic.

Some quick updates:

1. The Will of John Poythress (1711) secured for us by Lori Poythress
arrived today. I will be posting it to the web pages this evening. It is
in excellent condition!!

2. I hope to post more of Lou Poole's chapters to the web site shortly.
The delay is related to my efforts to keep the footnote formats intact.
The next addition will be for the Eppes family.

3. I would be very grateful for any feedback on the Virginia Gazette
clips. I know that several of these load slowly due to the large size of
the files. I think the large image format will make it much easier to
transcribe.

4. I remain interested in additional document references for the 17th
century records page. I'd hope we'd soon have a COMPLETE description of
all known sources during these early years in Virginia.

In closing, I'd like to offer a warm welcome to Pat Crewe. We have defined
ourselves as a group interested in the Poythress surname at any place and
at any time. Now that you're with us, we're much closer to honoring that
mission!

Pat, you'll see several posting on Gloucestershire records from Liz Jack.
Liz has been helping us do a systematic survey of the surname prior to
1650. I hope we'll be able to compare notes and coordinate efforts.

Best to all,

Albert Tims		06/04/1997 9:13:22
LVA resourcesCharles NealMaynard & List:

Below is a copy of the VA-Hist List announcement of wonderful new on-line
resources, plus below it some input from one of the VA-Hist List
subscribers, which was seconded in another message from another subscriber.

BPN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Elizabeth Roderick wrote:
>
> Greetings - the Library of Virginia is in the process of
> implementing Phase Three of its Digital Library Project, with
> most work to be completed this summer and fall.
>
> The following is a brief description of each project. We will
> announce each project's availability to the VA-HIST and
> VA-ROOTS mailing lists.
>
> The Digital Project can be found at http://leo.vsla.edu from
> the category "Online Catalogs and Image Databases."
>
> Please do let me know if you have any questions. We do
> appreciate all of your continued good input and support!
>
>
> GORDON ARONHIME PROJECT
>
> Gordon Aronhime (1911-1983) was a historian, writer and
> photographer who resided in Bristol, Virginia. The Library is
> scanning more than 5,500 index cards associated with the holdings
> in the Aronhime collection.
>
> This collection consists of Aronhime's exhaustive research into the
> early history of Southwest Virginia. Focusing on the upper
> Holston-Clinch River area during the period 1770-1795, he attempted
> to verify and/or locate mills, forts, settlements, military events,
> place names, and Indian affairs. There are biographical sketches
> of a number of prominent area settlers. There is a card file on
> all verifiable adult males in the area in the last quarter of the
> eighteenth century, as well as information on early East Tennessee
> settlers. There are also sketches on revolutionary war soldiers
> and activities, the postal system, and Washington County tithable
> lists (1782-1784).
>
> More than 4,000 cards have entries identifying property-holders,
> and in most cases indicate dates of birth and death, date of
> marriage and to whom married, children, abstract of will, and other
> events proven in this period of time. Sources are noted.
>
> The index cards also include a partial list of those present at the
> Battle of King's Mountain (1780) and lists of ministers (with
> genealogical information).
>
> ---------
>
> CONFEDERATE PENSION APPLICATION INDEX
>
> Pension acts were passed by the Virginia General Assembly in 1888,
> 1900, and between 1902-1934. The act of 1888 provided pensions to
> Confederate soldiers, sailors, and marines disabled in action and
> to the widows of those killed in action. Later acts broadened the
> coverage to include all veterans, their widows and their unmarried
> or widowed daughters.
>
> This collection consists of approved pension applications and
> amended applications filed by resident Virginia Confederate
> veterans and their widows. The applications contain statements
> pertaining to the service record of the applicants and may include
> medical evaluations, information about the income and property of
> the veterans or their widows, and, in the case of widows, the date
> and place of marriages.
>
> The Library currently provides access to the digital images of the
> catalog card finding aid to this collection in the Electronic
> Card Indexes section of the Digital Library Project web site..
>
> During Phase Three of the project, the Library is transforming this
> index into a fully-searchable database containing approximately
> 50,000 entries. The database will be searchable by surname
> (pensioner or widow), county, date, and other fields.
>
> During this Phase, the images of the actual Pension Applications
> will be linked to the database.
>
> ---------
>
> WAR OF 1812 PAY ROLLS AND MUSTER ROLLS
>
> The Library currently provides access to the images of a card
> catalog index to the __Pay Rolls of Militia Entitled to Land Bounty
> Under the Act of Congress of Sept. 28, 1850__ (Richmond, 1851) and
> __Muster Rolls of the Virginia Militia in the War of 1812__
> (Richmond, 1852) which supplements __Pay Rolls__. The supplement
> contains the Companies and parts of Companies which were omitted in
> the __Pay Rolls__. Both volumes were copied from rolls in the
> office of the Auditor of Public Accounts in Richmond.
>
> During Phase Three, the Library is transforming the information on
> these cards into a fully-searchable database. The more than 80,000
> entries will be searchable by surname, and each entry will contain
> page number references to the printed pay rolls and muster rolls.
>
> ---------
>
> WAR HISTORY COMMISSION PROJECT
>
> The Virginia War History Commission was established in 1919 to
> collect, assemble, edit and publish information and material with
> respect to the contribution to World War I made by Virginia and
> Virginians.
>
> The Commission conducted a survey of World War I veterans in
> Virginia through the use of a printed questionnaire that recorded
> the full name of the soldier; date and place of birth; name of
> mother and father (and their places of birth); race; religious
> affiliation; names of wife and children; fraternal orders and
> college fraternities; education; occupation prior to entering the
> service; name of employer; residence before and after time in
> service; date of induction, rank, military branch and ID number;
> military company, regiment and division; name of ship, where
> trained or stationed before going to Europe; port of embarkation
> and debarkation, etc.
>
> Following these fairly straightforward questions, the Commission
> then posed several questions that were designed to elicit
> information about how the war affected the serviceman and how he
> perceived his experiences during the war.
>
> The questions dealt with the effect of disabilities upon occupation
> and employment; the serviceman's attitude toward military service;
> the mental and physical effects of United States camp experiences
> and of overseas experiences; how the experience affected his
> religious beliefs; and the effect of all of these experiences as
> contrasted with his state of mind before the war.
>
> In many cases, the soldier submitted one or two photographs with
> the questionnaire, one taken before entering the service and
> another taken afterwards (in uniform, signed and dated).
>
> The Library is digitizing 60 reels of microfilm containing the
> images of approximately 120,000 pages of these questionnaires and
> photographs. The Library is also creating a fully-searchable
> database with more than 15,000 entries accessible by surname,
> city/county, race, etc., and is linking the original documents to
> the database.
>
> ---------
>
> CONFEDERATE DISABILITY APPLICATIONS PROJECT
>
> The Virginia General Assembly enacted legislation, beginning in
> 1867 and ending in 1894, to provide artificial limbs and other
> disability benefits to veterans of the Civil War.
>
> The Assembly created the Board of Commissioners on Artificial Limbs
> to oversee the distribution of aid, to which injured soldiers
> submitted certificates from their county court stating that they
> were Virginia citizens and had lost a limb or became otherwise
> disabled in the war. Veterans' disability applications included
> information on the command in which they served; when, where, and
> how they were wounded; and their medical history.
>
> These disability applications provide a sense of the Civil War's
> impact on individuals, families and communities. Many veterans
> found the battle for economic independence and physical well-being
> after the war nearly as difficult as the war itself.
>
> The Library is digitizing from microfilm its collection of
> disability applications, including supporting affidavits and
> receipts for payments issued. The Library is also creating a
> fully-searchable database with more than 6,000 entries, and is
> linking the more than 24,000 application images to the database
> entries. The database will be searchable by surname, place of
> residence, and the year of the act under which the individual
> applied.
>
> ---------
>
> GOVERNORS CORRESPONDENCE GUIDE PROJECT
>
> The Library of Virginia is the repository for the papers of
> Virginia's governors. During Phase Three, the Library is creating
> a searchable database that will provide access to information about
> the Library's holdings for each governor. We anticipate that the
> database will have approximately 5,000 entries, and that it will
> provide an overview to researchers, through broad subject
> categories, of the primary components of each governor's records.
>
> ---------
>
> GOVERNORS LETTERS PROJECT
>
> The Library of Virginia is preparing a fully-searchable database to
> the correspondence received by the following governors (June 29,
> 1776-November 8, 1784): Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, William
> Fleming, Thomas Nelson, David Jameson, and Benjamin Harrison. The
> database will contain approximately 7,500 entries, and will provide
> a brief abstract of the document, the date, the number of pages,
> and the recipient (if not the governor). The database will be
> searchable via the name of the sender, and all of the text within
> the abstract will be fully searchable.
>
> The Library is also digitizing this correspondence from twenty-two
> reels of microfilm, and will provide a link to each document from
> the entry in the database.
>
> ---------
>
> CHARLES F. GILLETTE PHOTOGRAPH COLLECTION
>
> Charles F. Gillette (March 14, 1886-March 30, 1969) was a prominent
> landscape architect in Virginia and in the upper South from the
> 1920s through the 1960s. The Library's extensive collection of his
> papers includes 400 photographs depicting scenes from his projects,
> which included Kenmore, Agecroft Hall, and Virginia House. Later
> works included large-scale educational, corporate, and government
> projects, including public housing projects.
>
> The Library will catalog these photographs and create a fully-
> searchable database, with links to the digitized images of the
> original photographs.
>
> ---------
>
> ROBERT BOLLING BATTE COLLECTION
>
> Robert Bolling Batte (1906-1996) was a native of Norfolk, Virginia.
> Batte compiled an extensive collection of genealogical and
> historical research notes and files, including information recorded
> on more than 30,000 index cards.
>
> Each of these cards represents an individual, with information
> given for date and place of birth, full names of parents, date and
> place of marriage(s), name of spouse, notation of education, public
> offices held, profession, military service, date and place of
> death, and place of burial. The backs of the cards contain
> extracts from pertinent documents, tombstone inscriptions, obituary
> notices and a listing of the subject's children. Each card
> contains codes referring to an index to the sources used in their
> compilation.
>
> Also included are miscellaneous index cards to sources, counties,
> cities, family Bibles, cemetery records, census lists, marriage
> records, newspapers, other published sources, parish registers, and
> wills which were used in the compilation of the card files.
>
> The Library is digitizing the card files, and will make them
> available with the rest of the Electronic Card Indexes collections.
>
> ---------
>
> BERNARD J. HENLEY COLLECTION
>
> Bernard J. Henley, a reference librarian for more than 37 years at
> the City of Richmond Public Library, selectively indexed and
> compiled abstracts from vital records that appeared in Richmond and
> other Virginia newspapers. After he retired from the public
> library in 1967, Henley began his systematic examination of
> newspapers, starting with 1780. The entries were hand-written on
> ruled notebook paper in chronological order.
>
> The Library is creating a fully-searchable database of the 45,000
> abstracts prepared by Henley.
>
> Henley also compiled, on index cards, an additional 15,000 entries
> relating to miscellaneous topics. The Library will digitize these
> cards, and make them available with the Electronic Card Indexes
> collections.
>
> ---------
>
> VIRGINIA PROBATE AND ESTATE RECORDS PRIOR TO 1800
>
> The Library currently provides access to the images of catalog
> cards that serve as a finding aid to recorded wills,
> administrations, inventories and other documents relating to the
> estates of individuals. These documents are located in will books
> and order books for 37 Virginia cities and counties. The card file
> indexes those documents for the period up to 1800, and Library
> staff continue to create new entries for the project.
>
> During Phase Three, the Library is creating a fully-searchable
> database of the information contained in this finding aid.
> The more than 75,000 entries will contain the name of the deceased,
> the county, the type of document, the date the document was
> recorded and references to the source in which the recorded
> document can be found (usually a county will book). The entry
> will also refer to the microfilm reel.
>
> In many cases, the documents indexed by this database are not
> located in county records and include wills from a number of
> counties where the official records no longer exist.
>
> ---------
>
> WPA LIFE HISTORIES PROJECT
>
> The Library of Virginia's collection of Works Progress
> Administration materials includes more than 1,000 life histories
> recorded by Virginia Writers' Project fieldworkers between 1938 and
> 1941. These documents, in dire need of preservation, will be
> microfilmed and cataloged as part of Phase Three. We anticipate
> that approximately 20,000 pages will be filmed, then digitized,
> with nearly 5,000 individual entries created in the fully-
> searchable database.
>
>
> ---------
>
> BOARD OF PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT
>
> The Library's collection of Board of Public Works documents
> includes more than 900 maps relating to bridge, canal, navigation,
> railroad, and turnpike projects, and steamboat/express and
> telephone/telegraph companies. Other maps include the county maps
> created by John Wood and Herman Boye from 1819 to 1825. The _Board
> of Public Works Inventory_, compiled by John S. Salmon, provides a
> guide to these documents and maps.
>
> The maps were recently filmed on 105 mm microfiche, which are now
> available in the Library's Map Research Room.
>
> As part of Phase Three, the Library has republished the _Guide_ in
> electronic format on the Digital Library site, and is digitizing
> the map images to provide a link from the guide to the map.
> The first version of the electronic _Guide_ is now available
> for review on the Digital Library site, and we would welcome
> any comments or suggestions. The maps will be linked sometime
> this summer.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Elizabeth
>
> --
> Elizabeth Roderick email
(eroderic@leo.vsla.edu)
> Assistant Director, Library Development voice (804) 692-3761
> and Networking Division fax (804) 692-3771
> The Library of Virginia
> 800 E. Broad Street
> Richmond, VA 23219
>
> *****************************************************
> http://leo.vsla.edu
> The LVA Digital Library Project
> *****************************************************
Having images of the documents on line is just awesome!! Keep up the
good work. But paging through images of index cards (for people like me
at the end of what appears to be a very long and narrow data line) is
not so spiffy. I know that the cards were prepared over the years by
myriad machines and people, but have you looked into using OCR to
convert the information to coded text? Now THAT would be a really great
plus. I am now wearing out my fingers going +5, +5, +5, -1 +1 etc.
With coded text, think of the indexing possibilities!!
It appears that for some of the collections you are talking only a few
thousand cards here and a few thousand there. I would be glad to
volunteer on a project "BYTE" -- "Bringing You Text, Everybody" (Groan
:{{ ) and tackle a subset.

Randy Cabell		06/04/1997 9:46:22
R.Bolling BatteCharles NealMaynard -

Copied here below is what (for us) may prove to be an incredibly good
reason for you, yourself, to visit the brand-new Library of Virginia bldg
in Richmond during your upcoming visit to old Virginny. The below is an
excerpt from the entire 6-page announcement from LVA, which longer
announcement I will also forward a copy of, to this List since it contains
MANY wonderful things.

Since we know that R.Bolling Batte himself told me years ago on the phone
that he had collected additional info on the Poythress family, but hadn't
gotten A Round Tuit on putting Chart B, or Part II, of his chart together,
we HAVE to assume that his collection will yield additional Poythress info
that is not on his original Chart. Whether or not it has additional
Poythress info that we haven't organized, remains for you (or someone well
versed in web-site visiting) to dig out.

Hip, Hip, Hooray - the Batte collection has made it to public access!!

Ay!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ROBERT BOLLING BATTE COLLECTION
>
> Robert Bolling Batte (1906-1996) was a native of Norfolk, Virginia.
> Batte compiled an extensive collection of genealogical and
> historical research notes and files, including information recorded
> on more than 30,000 index cards.
>
> Each of these cards represents an individual, with information
> given for date and place of birth, full names of parents, date and
> place of marriage(s), name of spouse, notation of education, public
> offices held, profession, military service, date and place of
> death, and place of burial. The backs of the cards contain
> extracts from pertinent documents, tombstone inscriptions, obituary
> notices and a listing of the subject's children. Each card
> contains codes referring to an index to the sources used in their
> compilation.
>
> Also included are miscellaneous index cards to sources, counties,
> cities, family Bibles, cemetery records, census lists, marriage
> records, newspapers, other published sources, parish registers, and
> wills which were used in the compilation of the card files.
>
> The Library is digitizing the card files, and will make them
> available with the rest of the Electronic Card Indexes collections.
>
>		06/04/1997 9:46:25
A WinnerWe now have Pat Crewe on-line....next step is to sell her on the discussion
group.

I will transcribe or scan the document she is sending to me.

We really do need to get her on the "list" and I'm speculating that I should
"sell" that proposition's ease and low time-consumption since Pat is unlikely
to be interested in anything except the "high spots" of what we are doing. I
have discovered that interest in genealogy always "goes backwards" and seldom
"goes forward". And for her, we are the "forward".

Her address shown below how about the "hospitality committee" (volunteers,
please)
making her welcome!.

Thanks. Maynard

Subj: (no subject)
Date: 97-06-04 03:58:36 EDT
From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net (Pat & Maurice Crewe)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com (John Maynard Poythress)

Dear Maynard,
As you can see we are now "on-line" and your letter came at just the right
moment, thank you for it. I have had a first look at the Poythress web page
and found it very interesting. I am sending you a photocopy, by post, of the
land document concerning John Poydresse. I see from your information that it
has been withdrawn from the Glos. Record Office records but I can't see why,
unless it's condition is so poor now that it can't be handled by the public -
I did get it several years ago. Anyway hope you find it interesting.
I can see that there has been work done on the Pewtresse family from Dymock.
Whilst in the GRO a few years back I took copies of 3 wills. I was looking
for a mention of the Christopher Poythress who should have been born
somewhere around 1615 and is the earliest ancestor I have found so far in the
Poythress family. I did't find Christopher in these wills or any Francis
but there are several mentions of Johns. The will of Johane Pewtresse or
Pewteras is dated 1584, the will of Thomas Pewtresse of Dymock is dated 1589
and the will of another Thomas Pewtres is dated 1592 and I see I made a note
that the last named was buried on 7th Mar 1592/3. I don't suppose that any
of these will help you in your search for Francis but if you do want copies
let me know.
You wondered if the name was of Welsh origin and I just don't know - it is
quite possible as I have always thought the family could have come from
Herefordshire as there are a lot of early entries in Fownhope, and both
Herefordshire and Gloucestershire are near Wales.
Whilst looking round Newent church we met a lady who told us that the early
registers of Newent had been destroyed as they had been stored in the church
tower and there had been a fire. If this is correct it is going to be very
difficult for me to get any further but I shall look again next time we go to
Gloucester.
Best wishes, Pat Crewe		06/04/1997 11:40:33
Re: Blind HogsBarb....as usual it will be my pleasure....but don't get too excited....I
believe it was my boy Johnathan Swift who said "blessed is he who expects
nothing for he shall never be disappointed".

The NC lady's stuff could be the size of a Brittianica....or scribbled on a
match book cover...we just never know....as you DO know.

Glad to see you back swingin'. Best to Misser Chas.

MP

06/04/1997 11:49:11
Re: Excuse meDear Al,

Wasn't I receiving the Digest form? If not, I am not sure how to put the
Poythress list on Digest. OR are we different from the other Rootsweb lists
since we have been there longer? Anyhow, sorry to bother you but looking for
Kesiah/Kizziah has gone way down the list since both my BURNETT and RANSOM
lines have opened up in a big way and I am trying to digest a lot of
material. I still need to "lurk" but only in corners of my time now that I am
busy with actual documents. I love the style of this list, but I will have to
take it in digest form, I guess. Thanks to all for all the help.

Caroline

06/04/1997 11:52:13
Re: Newent parish registerTIMSDear Stephen,

Thank you for the information on the Newent Parish Register and the
availability of alternative records. Also thank you for taking an interest
in helping us establish contact with Poythress researchers in England. We
are in your debt.

Below is a brief summary of what little we know about Francis Poythress and
his immediate family. It may be that these items contain clues helpful for
identifying appropriate archives or records.

1. Francis Poythress may have arrived in Virginia as early as 1633.
2. We know that his wife was named Mary. Her surname has yet to be
discovered. One source maintains that her maiden name was Sloman, although
we have yet to see proof of this. Upon the death of Francis circa 1650
(cause unknown), she married Robert Wynn(e). Col. Robert Wynne was from
Canterbury and continued to own considerable property in that area (5
houses, a farm, and a mill).
3. Francis Poythress was a "factor" for Mr. Lawrence Evans of Wood Street
in London.
4. Lawrence Evans, merchant, sent to Virginia goods for a value of £2,000
in three ships, the Rebecca, master - Richard Buckham, the George, master
-- Robert Page, and the Hopewell, master -- William Smith. One factor died
during the journey, his other factor Francis Poetres returned a bill of
only £150.
5. We know that Thomas Poythress (son of Francis) returned to England in
1659. This is evidenced by the following contract: These presents oblige
me Arthur Graunt to Carry Thomas Poythres in my ship this yeare for England
and at his arrivall there in case mr. George Laud shall not accomodate him
w'th Dyett and lodging, I do hereby oblige my selfe to do it untill the
retorne of the next shipping to this Countrey of Virginia, w'ch I am to do
gratis w'thout expecting any pay, and the next yeare to bring him into this
Countrey againe he paying for his passage inward as others doe. To the
performance whereof I bind me my heires ex'rs and adm'rs and In testimony
thereof have hereunto put my hand this 30th of November 1659.
6. Francis Poythress rose to the rank of Captain of the Militia and was a
member of the House of Burgesses,

I do not yet know if Lawrence Evans was connected with the London Company
or the Berkeley Company of Gloucestershire? I have identified the
following book as a possible source of new insight on this question.

George Thorpe and the Berkeley Company : a Gloucestershire enterprise in
Virginia. Eric Gethyn-Jones. Gloucester : Sutton, 1982.
296 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. Bibliography: p. [287]-290. Includes index.

We would welcome any insights you might provide about how we might best
move forward with our study of Francis Poythress.

Best,

Albert R. Tims		06/05/1997 1:39:48
Re: Newent parish registerStephen Emlyn-JonesIn message <199706050735.CAA11267@t-rex.minn.net>, TIMS
writes
>Dear Stephen,
>
>Thank you for the information on the Newent Parish Register and the
>availability of alternative records. Also thank you for taking an interest
>in helping us establish contact with Poythress researchers in England. We
>are in your debt.
>
>Below is a brief summary of what little we know about Francis Poythress and
>his immediate family. It may be that these items contain clues helpful for
>identifying appropriate archives or records.
>
>1. Francis Poythress may have arrived in Virginia as early as 1633.
>2. We know that his wife was named Mary. Her surname has yet to be
>discovered. One source maintains that her maiden name was Sloman, although
>we have yet to see proof of this. Upon the death of Francis circa 1650
>(cause unknown), she married Robert Wynn(e). Col. Robert Wynne was from
>Canterbury and continued to own considerable property in that area (5
>houses, a farm, and a mill).
>3. Francis Poythress was a "factor" for Mr. Lawrence Evans of Wood Street
>in London.
>4. Lawrence Evans, merchant, sent to Virginia goods for a value of £2,000
>in three ships, the Rebecca, master - Richard Buckham, the George, master
>-- Robert Page, and the Hopewell, master -- William Smith. One factor died
>during the journey, his other factor Francis Poetres returned a bill of
>only £150.
>5. We know that Thomas Poythress (son of Francis) returned to England in
>1659. This is evidenced by the following contract: These presents oblige
>me Arthur Graunt to Carry Thomas Poythres in my ship this yeare for England
>and at his arrivall there in case mr. George Laud shall not accomodate him
>w'th Dyett and lodging, I do hereby oblige my selfe to do it untill the
>retorne of the next shipping to this Countrey of Virginia, w'ch I am to do
>gratis w'thout expecting any pay, and the next yeare to bring him into this
>Countrey againe he paying for his passage inward as others doe. To the
>performance whereof I bind me my heires ex'rs and adm'rs and In testimony
>thereof have hereunto put my hand this 30th of November 1659.
>6. Francis Poythress rose to the rank of Captain of the Militia and was a
>member of the House of Burgesses,
>
>I do not yet know if Lawrence Evans was connected with the London Company
>or the Berkeley Company of Gloucestershire? I have identified the
>following book as a possible source of new insight on this question.
>
>George Thorpe and the Berkeley Company : a Gloucestershire enterprise in
>Virginia. Eric Gethyn-Jones. Gloucester : Sutton, 1982.
>296 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. Bibliography: p. [287]-290. Includes index.
>
>We would welcome any insights you might provide about how we might best
>move forward with our study of Francis Poythress.
>
>Best,
>
>Albert R. Tims
>
One source that could prove useful is a book published in 1902 by
Southeran in London edited by J.Smyth/Smith entitled "Names & Surnames
of all.....men fit to serve in the Wars,within the county of Gloucester
1608."
This is a transcription of a "muster roll".These are of considerable
interest as they normally list adult males between the ages of 16 & 60.
They were "censuses" ordered ostensibly to discover the state of
preparedness of the kingdom for war.
The finest published 17th century return is the one listed above & it
has been analysed by Prof.R.H.Tawney in "An occupational census of the
17th century" in Economic History Review 1st series V no. 1(Oct 1934)
p.25.
The book I think is avaliable in the Bristol Reference Library where I
consulted it many years ago.It is indexed.There is bound to be a copy at
the Gloucester Record Office.
Full names are given by parish etc with occupations,details of physique
& arms held.
How detailed it is I do not know but the period is about right & should
give you a good listing of all adult males of the name with their
location.It would include people born not later than 1592.
I hope that you can locate someone in England who has easy access to
this book.
If I can help any further I will of course let you know.
Best wishes
Stephen Emlyn-Jones
--
Stephen Emlyn-Jones
Bridgend http://www.semlyn.demon.co.uk/
Wales Stephen@semlyn.demon.co.uk		06/05/1997 1:43:41
Fw: Poytgress infoTIMSHi Folks,

Think we can help this person.

Al Tims

----------
> From: Authalbert@aol.com
> To: atims@minn.net
> Subject: Poytgress info
> Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 9:43 PM
>
> I am to locate information on George N. (or "M") Poythress andnthe
> following relatives : George Bolling, son of Thomas Bolling and
Elizabeth
> Gray. Any help highly appreciated.		06/05/1997 9:22:23
Re: Newent Parish RecordW. David SamuelsenThe records are on microfilm. You can order them through the Family
History Center of LDS Church. Wonder where I got Francis Poythress'
christening date of 1609 in first place. I gave TIMS the microfilm
numbers to order them.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W. David Samuelsen
Will Testators Indexes Online
Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~		06/05/1997 9:41:52
"The Other" Bolling Batte PapersBarbara......

Wow, I never dreamed the stuff would get to public access this quickly...but
this is certainly great news.

And even if Bolling Batte himself had not told you he had a bunch of other P
stuff, that one was a cinch.....no way anyone could have collected John's
tree to the exclusion of Francis2's tree unless he was just crazy or
something.

I can't wait to see the whole announcement.

If I thought I could get into them I'd go to Richmond in a heartbeat even if
it is considerable distance from Arlington.....but, I sure can't visualize
the LVA folks letting some rookie with no credentials get in there to rifle
through boxes of 30,000
index cards and who knows how many loose documents. Does that say we have to
wait for them to be posted? Anyway, it certainly suggests to me to renew my
annual token donation to LVA which I had planned to let drop this
year.....maybe it'll be good for something but I can't see it earning me a
subpoena for Batte's material.

And if this material is going to be available to the public at some point
prior being posted on line (i. e. there is a window in there), there is
nothing that says I can't bop back over to Richmond. We have very close
friends in Holy City with whom we can stay....and frankly, I work better with
Jean along. I have discovered that in genealogical libraries, for me at any
rate, one plus one equals three....or maybe, more likely as you ladies would
probably say "Jean equals two".

Anyhow, I'll certainly take your lead on what, if anything, we ought to do
(or can do) right now.

Thanks.

Maynard		06/05/1997 9:42:22
Re: "The Other" Bolling Batte PapersRandy Jones> And even if Bolling Batte himself had not told you he had a bunch of other P
> stuff, that one was a cinch.....no way anyone could have collected John's
> tree to the exclusion of Francis2's tree unless he was just crazy or
> something.
>
> I can't wait to see the whole announcement.
>
> If I thought I could get into them I'd go to Richmond in a heartbeat even if
> it is considerable distance from Arlington.....but, I sure can't visualize
> the LVA folks letting some rookie with no credentials get in there to rifle
> through boxes of 30,000
> index cards and who knows how many loose documents. Does that say we have to
> wait for them to be posted? Anyway, it certainly suggests to me to renew my
> annual token donation to LVA which I had planned to let drop this
> year.....maybe it'll be good for something but I can't see it earning me a
> subpoena for Batte's material.

Maynard & Others -
I was just at LVA a few weeks ago. What a wonderful place!! And they
will let you do exactly that - go through their boxes of documents. They
have all sorts of controls, and they watch you very carefully, but their
material is fully accessible and well indexed.

If you are too anxious to wait until it's all scanned and put on the
'net, then a road trip is in order.

- Randy Jones		06/06/1997 7:26:13
Re: English WillsRandy Jones> Below from Pat Crewe...I told her transcriptions would be great.
>
> Subj: Wills
> Date: 97-06-06 11:56:28 EDT
> From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net (Pat & Maurice Crewe)
> To: VKRatliff@aol.com (John Maynard Poythress)
>
> Dear Maynard,
> Thank you so much for your welcome message and for all the information on
> the Poythress family in the USA. I must get my atlas out. The land
> document was posted to you on the 4th June.
> Re the 3 wills from Dymock, 2 are Thomas's but the other one isn't John,
> it's Johane (old spelling for Joan) and she is a widow. I know I offered
> to send you photocopies but my husband tells me that by doing so I could
> be prosecuted by the Glos. Record Office for infringing their copyright.
> The wills are in old English writing and very difficult to read, so I
> suggest I transcribe the wills and send you the transcriptions. This
> apparently is quite legal. It will take me a while to do this but I
> promise to do it as quickly as possible. Sorry about this. By the way
> the Johane will is, I think, the one mentioned as missing on one of the
> web pages.
> Hope this will be OK.
> Best wishes, Pat Crewe

Wills are a matter of public record, so can have no copyright associated
with them.

- Randy Jones

******************************************************************
* http://www.charweb.org *
Randy Jones, Webmaster * government - /government *
Charlotte's Web * transportation - /trans.html *
rjones@charweb.org * community theatre - /arts/theatre.html*
* genealogy - /gen *
******************************************************************		06/06/1997 7:47:51
New memberPat & Maurice CreweMany thanks for your warm welcome to the group and especially to Maynard
for introducing me to you. I hope to join in with your discussions when I
feel I have anything to contribute but I shall read all the messages
anyway.
From the Poythress web pages I have already managed to sort out one point
in my own family tree which wasn't clear before.
My thanks to those who have helped with information about the Bishop's
Transcripts for Newent.
Best wishes to you all, Pat Crewe

06/06/1997 8:57:46
"Men & Armour"Pat & Maurice CreweDear Liz,
Just to let you know I have a copy of "Men & Armour in Gloucestershire
1608" - it is the 1980 reprint.
The following are entries from it:-
Pewtris, John - a Taylor about 20 yrs old of lower stature "fitt to serve
with a Calyver"
Pewtris, John - a sawier about 40 yrs old of lower stature "fitt to serve
with a Calyver"
Pewtris, Thomas - a Taylor about 20 yrs old of lower stature "fitt to
serve with a Calyver"
Pewtris, William - a wever about 40 yrs old of middle stature "fitt to
make a musketyer"
Pothres, Anthony - a Tanner about 20 yrs old of middle stature "fitt to
make a musketyer"
The first 3 came from Dymocke and Anthony came from Malswicke.
This is all I have found so far.
Regards, Pat & Maurice Crewe		06/06/1997 9:56:58
The Military Survey of Gloucestershire, 1522TIMSPoythress List,

Below you will find additional information from Liz Jack re early records
in Gloucestershire.
She has surveyed:
1. The Military Survey of Gloucestershire, 1522
2. 'Historical Monumental and Genealogical Collections relative to the
county of Gloucester' from the original by Ralph Bigland Edited by
Brian Frith.

I'll add this to our web site this evening.

Cheers,
Al Tims
_________________________________

'The Military Survey of Gloucestershire, 1522'
Edited by R.W.Hoyle

'All male inhabitants of the parish were to muster and have recorded the
value of their goods, their possession of weapons and armour and their
fitness to serve in war.'

Leadington in Dymock:

aThomas Pewteras 26s 8d bow, arrows & dagger
Roger Pewteras 20s
Richard Pewteras glaive, dagger

The a preceding Thomas' name indicates that he was 'able' in the sense
of a man fit or able to undertake military service.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Historical Monumental and Genealogical Collections relative to the
county of Gloucester' from the original by Ralph Bigland Edited by
Brian Frith.

Cheltenham:

Mary, Wife of John Pewtris, Daughter of Walter & Sarah Clevely
Died 19 Jan 1750 Aged 39

Bromesberrow: (Now Bromsberrow)

William Pewtris Died 11 Jun 1720 Aged 42
Elizabeth his Daughter Died 25 Mar 1739 Aged 27
Esther, Wife of the late William Pewtris
Died 29 Sep 1747 Aged 68

Dymock:

Betty, Wife of John Pewtriss Died 10 Mar 1738 Aged 39

Newent:

Jane, Wife of William Poythress Died 2 Sep 1721 Aged 21

Preston by Ledbury:

William Peutris Died 11 Jun 1720 Aged 42
Elizabeth, his Daughter by Esther his wife
Died 25 Mar 1738 Aged 27
Esther, Wife of Wm Peutris Died 29 Sept 1747 Aged 68

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Liz
Elizabeth Jack: ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk		06/06/1997 10:17:56
English WillsBelow from Pat Crewe...I told her transcriptions would be great.

Subj: Wills
Date: 97-06-06 11:56:28 EDT
From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net (Pat & Maurice Crewe)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com (John Maynard Poythress)

Dear Maynard,
Thank you so much for your welcome message and for all the information on
the Poythress family in the USA. I must get my atlas out. The land
document was posted to you on the 4th June.
Re the 3 wills from Dymock, 2 are Thomas's but the other one isn't John,
it's Johane (old spelling for Joan) and she is a widow. I know I offered
to send you photocopies but my husband tells me that by doing so I could
be prosecuted by the Glos. Record Office for infringing their copyright.
The wills are in old English writing and very difficult to read, so I
suggest I transcribe the wills and send you the transcriptions. This
apparently is quite legal. It will take me a while to do this but I
promise to do it as quickly as possible. Sorry about this. By the way
the Johane will is, I think, the one mentioned as missing on one of the
web pages.
Hope this will be OK.
Best wishes, Pat Crewe		06/06/1997 10:21:26
Fw: A Source Lead of Possible SignificanceTIMSPoythress List,

I forwarded the recent exchanges on records in England to Liz Jack, she
replied with the following. Pat Crewe -- please don't hesitate to contact
Liz if information sharing/exchange appears fruitful. Of course, do keep
up apprised of any discoveries. Also, I would be particularly interested
in known variants of the Poythress surname.

Liz has not sent me the information she speculates about in the message. I
will ask that she do so.

Cheers,
Al Tims
----------
> From: Elizabeth Jack
> To: TIMS
> Subject: Re: A Source Lead of Possible Significance
> Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 6:59 PM
>
> Hi Al
> >Is this something you might know about, or be able to locate?
> >
> >One source that could prove useful is a book published in 1902 by
> >Southeran in London edited by J.Smyth/Smith entitled "Names & Surnames
> >of all.....men fit to serve in the Wars,within the county of Gloucester
> >1608."
>
> No problem - it is in the local library, the record office - even my old
> school library - but it is the one major reference book for Gloucester
> that I haven't yet got for myself - but I'm working on it - I think I
> know where I can get a copy for me - when I persuade myself it is worth
> the 30UK pounds that it will cost me.
>
> I do have the Military Survey of Gloucestershire for 1522 - I seem to
> remember sending you that info - or did I just look to see if there was
> anything there and not actually send it???? It refers to Richard, Roger
> and Thomas Pewteras.
>
> I also have Bigland - did I copy out the Pewtriss/Poythress references
> from there for you? These involve Betty, Eleanor, Elizabeth, esther,
> Mary and John Pewtris and Jane and William Poythress.
>
> I will check Smith's 'Men and Armour' next time I go to the Record
> Office.
>
> I will also send the wills on - it will be a good exercise for some of
> the history students 🙂 I've been reading quite a lot of old English
> during the past week and am beginning to get used to it so I will
> probably take a copy of the wills before I send them so that I can try
> as well.
>
> Liz
> Elizabeth Jack: ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk
>
> Hidden Heritage: http://www.hidden-heritage.com
>
> Researching: Blinkhorne / Blenkarn / Sosbe / Gwinnutt / Rann
> Jack / Sessions / Collett / Bastard / Seapey
> Philpott / Purdon both in Ireland
>
> Gloucestershire FHS: http://www.compulink.co.uk/~rd/GENUKI/gfhs.htm		06/06/1997 10:41:10
Poythress/BollingRe Bolling:

Thomas Bolling (7 Jul 1735-7 Aug 1804) m. Elizabeth Gay, Thomas was J. P. for
Chesterfield County. See Pocahontas and Her Descendents by Wyndham Robertson
(should be in just about any library with decent sized genealogy collection).
In addition to the bare bones on page 32, there is, in appendix E, a very
interesting account of both and their lives (greatly romanticized).

Re Poythress:

Could you spot me a site and perhaps an approx. date on that George?....we
got 'em in Virginia, Georgia, and probably the Carolinas. Any other clues
that would help also.

Hope this helps.

Maynard Poythress
VKRatliff@aol.com
Poythress Discussion Group		06/06/1997 10:56:00
Re: NamesMarion & Helene PockrusTim & the Board:
I joined the board with the idea of trying to locate our early
ancestor-David POCKRUS. As we have 27 spelling of the name so far, and we
cannot locate the name further than NC, Fairfield Co.; I feel it has come
down from another name. It was suggested to me several years ago that the
name was possibly Poythress. Given the lack of eduction in the early
years in the farming areas of the South, and a good drawl it may possibly
be a factor to consider. Anyone run across this name? Any other
suggestions?
Helene Pockrus

----------
> From: TIMS
> To: Poythress Genealogy List
> Subject: Fw: A Source Lead of Possible Significance
> Date: Friday, June 06, 1997 10:41 AM
>
> Poythress List,
>
> I forwarded the recent exchanges on records in England to Liz Jack, she
> replied with the following. Pat Crewe -- please don't hesitate to
contact
> Liz if information sharing/exchange appears fruitful. Of course, do keep
> up apprised of any discoveries. Also, I would be particularly interested
> in known variants of the Poythress surname.
>
> Liz has not sent me the information she speculates about in the message.
I
> will ask that she do so.
>
> Cheers,
> Al Tims
> ----------
> > From: Elizabeth Jack
> > To: TIMS
> > Subject: Re: A Source Lead of Possible Significance
> > Date: Thursday, June 05, 1997 6:59 PM
> >
> > Hi Al
> > >Is this something you might know about, or be able to locate?
> > >
> > >One source that could prove useful is a book published in 1902 by
> > >Southeran in London edited by J.Smyth/Smith entitled "Names & Surnames

> > >of all.....men fit to serve in the Wars,within the county of
Gloucester
> > >1608."
> >
> > No problem - it is in the local library, the record office - even my
old
> > school library - but it is the one major reference book for Gloucester
> > that I haven't yet got for myself - but I'm working on it - I think I
> > know where I can get a copy for me - when I persuade myself it is worth
> > the 30UK pounds that it will cost me.
> >
> > I do have the Military Survey of Gloucestershire for 1522 - I seem to
> > remember sending you that info - or did I just look to see if there was
> > anything there and not actually send it???? It refers to Richard,
Roger
> > and Thomas Pewteras.
> >
> > I also have Bigland - did I copy out the Pewtriss/Poythress references
> > from there for you? These involve Betty, Eleanor, Elizabeth, esther,
> > Mary and John Pewtris and Jane and William Poythress.
> >
> > I will check Smith's 'Men and Armour' next time I go to the Record
> > Office.
> >
> > I will also send the wills on - it will be a good exercise for some of
> > the history students 🙂 I've been reading quite a lot of old
English
> > during the past week and am beginning to get used to it so I will
> > probably take a copy of the wills before I send them so that I can try
> > as well.
> >
> > Liz
> > Elizabeth Jack: ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk
> >
> > Hidden Heritage: http://www.hidden-heritage.com
> >
> > Researching: Blinkhorne / Blenkarn / Sosbe / Gwinnutt / Rann
> > Jack / Sessions / Collett / Bastard / Seapey
> > Philpott / Purdon both in Ireland
> >
> > Gloucestershire FHS: http://www.compulink.co.uk/~rd/GENUKI/gfhs.htm		06/06/1997 11:24:23
Study of Lewis and David Poythress of Mecklenburg County VATIMSPoythress List,

Barbara Poythress Wolfe has prepared a records survey for Lewis and David
Poythress of Mecklenburg, Virginia. I've attached the text below and have
posted it to our web pages at
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/davidp.html

This is another wonderful addition to our web pages and our shared body of
knowledge. Thanks Barbara!

Cheers,
Al Tims
__________________________________
Study of Lewis & David Poythress, by Barbara Poythress Wolfe

Lewis Poythress

26 Dec 1792 Marriage Bond of Lewis Poythress and Patsey Giles, Surety:
Meredith Poythress; Sealed and delivered in the presence of Newman Dortch.
Mecklenburg Cty. Marriage Bonds and Consent papers, 1770-1810 "P" Reel 58,
p. 376.

2 Mar 1796 John and Martha Cleaton sold 98 acres in Mecklenburg to Lewis
Poythress. Abstracted from Deed 10, page 62, Film #0032536 of Mecklenburg
County.

13 Jan 1801 Lewis Poythress sold to John Giles 100 acres in Mecklenburg
County. Abstracted from Mecklenburg Cty Deeds, p. 605

4 Nov 1801 Thomas Watson and his wife Susanna Watson sold 104 acres to
Lewis in Mecklenburg. Abstracted from Mecklenburg Cty. Deeds, p. 47.

9 Apr 1802 Marriage Bond of Lewis and Rebecca B. Taylor, Surety: Thomas
Watson, in the presence of John Dortch.

3 Nov 1813 Dennis Bafs (probably Bass) sold 33 acres to Lewis Poythress in
Mecklenburg County. Abstracted from Mecklenburg County Deeds.

20 April 1816 Grief Harwell sold 138 acres to Lewis in Mecklenburg County.
Abstracted from Mecklenburg County Deeds.

18 Oct 1845 Bill of Sale on property from Lewis Poythress, Sr. to youngest
sons Lewis Y. Poythress, Jr. and Thomas M. Poythress. Mecklenburg County
Deed Book 31 1843-1845 Reel 15 p. 605.

*************************************************************

David Poythress

17 Dec 1827 Marriage Record of David Poythress and Mary Speed Dortch
Consent: Ann Dortch, mother ;Witnesses, Isaac Taylor and Elizabeth C.
Dortch. Mecklenburg Cty Marriages Bonds and Consent Papers 1825-1828 Reel
66, p. 698-700.

21 Jan 1832 Consent by Lewis and Rebecca Poythress for daughter Rebecca to
marry Benjamin Standley. Witness: David Poythress. Ibid. 1831-1835 A-Z Reel
68 p. 265-269.

14 Sep 1837 John M. Parkinson sold 100 acres in Mecklenburg to David
Poythress. Mecklenburg County Deed Book 27, 1836-1838 Reel 13, p.331-332.

15 Aug 1844 Lewis Poythress sold 143 1/2 acres in Mecklenburg to David
Poythress. Ibid. Book 31 1843-1845 Reel 15 p. 253-254.

15 Mar 1848 Marriage Bond of David Poythress and Sally Dortch by David and
Benjamin Standley; Witness J. J. Daly. Warren County Marriage Bonds in
North Carolina State Archives.

16 Oct 1848 Marriage Consent by David for his daughter Martha Jane
Poythress to John Tucker. Mecklenburg County Marriage Bonds and Consent
papers of Minister's Returns 1848-1850. A-Z Reel 73 p. 55 and 60.

4 Nov 1852 Hartwell Arnold sold 321 1/2 acres in Mecklenburg to David
Poythress. Mecklenburg County Deed Book 34 1852-1855 Reel 17, p.87-88.		06/06/1997 11:35:36
John Poythress Will -- 1712TIMSPoythress List,

The Will of John Poythress (proven 1712) is now up on our web site. Lori
Poythress secured a copy of the original document from the Prince George
County courthouse last week. This Will, only returned to the public domain
in 1992, is of critical importance to the early history of the family.
Lou Poole's chapter on the Poythress family (see allied family page)
contains an abstracted transcription of the document. What I have added is
a scanned image of the original document.

The image can be found on the Wills page at the web site -- very first
item. I will warn you that the images are quite large (100+kb) and will
take a few minutes to load. The images are roughly legal size document
pages. If you're using Netscape you can right click on the image (opens a
menu) and select "view image" to see a high magnification of the document.
At this resolution -- it is quite easy to read.

The second page of the document can be seen by clicking on the "See Next
Page" text at the bottom of the first page.

If you compare this Will with Boddie's work (also on web page) you will see
that it gives us strong reason to revise Boddie's conclusions. I will
write more on this shortly...

Do take a look, but be patient with the download.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

Cheers,

Al Tims

p.s. -- Just received a very interesting note from Professor Ann Woodlief
of Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, VA concerning the source
of her information about Francis Poythress (I) and Mary Sloman. If time
permits, you may want to take a look at the information re the Poythress,
Woodlief and Wynne families at http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/home/woodfam.html		06/06/1997 12:05:55
Re: English WillsRandy JonesInformation that may be published as part of a collection (as in a book)
is copyrighted, but the data is not. Original public records are not,
unless the public record is restricted from public view to begin with.

As part of my real world job, I am an official "Keeper of Records" for
the City of Charlotte, so I have had extensive training in this area. I
realize that NC law is not the same as Virginia or South Carolina law,
but basic English common law applies to the availability of public
records, regardless of what waiver an overzealous county clerk may
require you to sign. I have visted hundreds of court houses in the
three states, and never have been refused a request to copy a document.

All that said, I have run into some smaller court houses where clerks
were too busy or too lazy to do a copy for you, or the copy machine was
broken, and you can't just run out to Zippy Print with these records.
This, however, is an entirely different situation.

- Randy Jones

On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Starr wrote:

> Hello POYTHRESS list,
> Randy wrote:
>
> >Wills are a matter of public record, so can have no copyright associated
> >with them.
>
> I agree totally BUT why did I have to sign a waiver before
> getting copies of deeds/wills from SC Archives that I understood the
> material was copyrighted? This was a few years ago, so their policy may
> have changed. I've also seen something on one of the lists that some
> court houses are claiming copyright and not allowing their data to be put
> on the web? Didn't one VA county even request LDS to pull ALL microfilm
> copies? This later is second hand info -- but I've personally signed
> several waivers.
> I felt like protesting at the time -- some tax payers paid for these
> records!; but I also suspected that meant I wouldn't receive the copies
> via snail I was requesting.
>
> Perhaps this question should be raised in the genealogical community?
> And, Randy this in no way is directed at you --
> you just hit a nerve with me. Linda
>
>
> Linda Sparks Starr
> starr81@ix.netcom.com
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm
>		06/07/1997 1:00:11
Re: Fw: David Pockrus of SC!StarrLet me toss in a penny's worth of opinion -- not worth the full 2 cents
I'm sure -- on Fairfield Co. SC. I "believe" the area that is now
Fairfield Co. was on the outer fringes of the area mid-to-late 1700s knows
as "The Waxhaws". Many people headed for NC spilled over into SC. Everyone
that I've researched in the Waxhaws were Scots-Irish from PA, but my
research has been limited to a couple families.

SC was settled on two fronts -- from Charleston northwestward and
southeasterward from VA/NC -- wilderness lay in between the two areas of
settlement. Lacking dates on when the family of this David Pockruss
arrived in NC / SC, they could have been there before the Rev. War.
However, I personally can document other southside families (many living
near POYTHRESS people in VA) who moved south into GA after the Rev. War.
Although I haven't found them, one line is supposed to have so-journed in
SC before moving into GA -- perhaps I should look in Fairfield Co.
That's the extent of my knowledge of this part of SC; unless someone else
jumps in, we'll all have to wait for our resident expert. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		06/07/1997 1:45:05
Views of GloucestershireTIMSHi Folks,

If you'd like to get a sense of what the Gloucestershire looks like, you
might spend a few minutes at this site.

http://www.demon.co.fweb/dean/tourist/severn.htm

... some panoramic views of the Severn Vale taken from the Forest of Dean.
Cool!

Also, I found a Poythress builder in Chapel Hill, N.C. with a beautiful
($280,000) home model shown on the web. This isn't much for a home in
California, but in North Carolina it builds a lovely home. It is quite
attractive. I don't know where this builder might fit on the family tree,
but it seems the tradition of Poythress carpenters continues on .... 🙂

Cheers,
Al		06/07/1997 2:27:59
Mary Sloman (?)Michelle......I have you in my file to notify if we ever got hot on the trail
of Mary Poythress' maiden name. Well, I don't know that we have gotten any
smarter but we have lately become more ambitious on this one.

Suggest you might want to take a peek at the Poythress website which is now
up:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

Also, instructions are on the page for joining the Poythress discussion group
which is a "discussion" group only if one wants to "discuss".....we have many
auditors. You can sign on to the list and if it gets boring then jumping off
is as simple as sending message "UNSUBSCRIBE". Alternatively, if you simply
want to address a one time question to the group and ask for response to your
e-mail address, an e-mail may be sent to: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com

If you simply asked "what was Mary's maiden name" I doubt if you would get
much of a direct reply because we seem to be "evolving" with this one.

Below is some material of today that you might want to review....hope you
decide to join us.

Best,

Maynard Poythress
(VKRatliff@aol.com)

Subj: The Sloman - Poythress - Wynne Connections
Date: 97-06-07 16:25:25 EDT
From: atims@minn.net (TIMS)
Resent-from: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com (Poythress Genealogy List)

Poythress List,

We've had several exchanges related to the Sloman surname over the past few
months. I can't say that we've done a particularly good job of staying
with this all important topic. Maybe we can do better with more of the
records now available.
This connection is of interest for several reasons:
1. It is suggested as a possible maiden name for the wife of Francis
Poythress (original immigrant).
2. It is closely associated with the Wynne family
3. It shows up in connection with David Poythress in the early 1700s.

Ann Woodlief's web page describes the early Woodlief-Wynne-Poythress
connections. She cites Sloman as the maiden name for Mary Poythress. Mary
later married Robert Wynne (after 1651). (Note: the link to Ann's page is
on the allied family page at our web site). By the way, Ann just sent me a
note saying that she is going to put a link to our web page on her Woodlief
page.

Immediately below is part of a note I recently sent to Ann, followed by her
response. I find what she says quite interesting and worthy of further
exploration.

Al Tims Wrote to Ann Woodlief:

..... You mention "Rubyn Ogburn's As I was told about the Ogburn & Wynne
Families, 198? and research done by Elizabeth Anne Taylor Kerman." Can you
tell me if this information is part of Ogburn's 198?
book, or if it originates with Elizabeth Ann Taylor Kerman?

Ann Woodlief Wrote in Response:
--There's a strange story about the Sloman name. In the Library of Virginia
I found Ogburn's book, and on page 101, it says "Mary Poythress was the
widow of Captain Francis Poythress, who owned the plantation adjoining that
of Captain Wynne. Careful inquiry into the Poythress family as to the name
of Mary's father has not been successful. She is the one unidentified
branch of this family." Added in handwriting is a sentence saying "She is
Mary Sloman."

There are other handwritten addenda to the genealogy tree (dates) which
have proven to be correct. I know that's hardly proof, but it seemed worth
adding to the genealogy for the time being. So far as I know, there's no
indication who owned that book before it went to the Library, but I
wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come from the author who may have found
more information after publishing. She collected a great deal of material
and everything else is well documented. Sloman is a strange name, so maybe
it can be tracked.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
More Exchanges:

Earlier this year, Maynard Poythress had an exchange with mtaunton@aol.com
re the Sloman surname. Unfortunately, I don't seem to have archived her
original message. I expect that Maynard will be able to fill us in.

Subject: Mary (Sloman?)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:41:35 -0500 (EST)
From: VKRatliff@aol.com
To: mtaunton@inet.ed.gov
CC: Albert R Tims

Received your material today and I appreciate it very much. I must say,
given that everyone seems to be guessing with no rationale at all, you have
made the most intelligent speculation I have seen to date.

One of our guys, Al Tims, he of the bottomless swamp that has a thousand
deed transactions, has found a land patent showing Sloman Wynn with land
adjoining that of David Poythress and Sloman witnessing the transaction. I
don't know deeds from nothing so I'm attaching the message from Al.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: The above description is accurate. You'll find these documents in
the deed data pool lists on the web page.

Below is a post from another Wynne researcher re Sloman, Wynne and Sloman
Wynne. Bill proves even more detail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:25:30 -0800

From: "William D. Lindsey"
To: Albert R Tims

Dear Albert R. Tims,

I'm responding to your message of 11 March about Sloman WYNNE nd David
POYTHRESS.

I have (sparse) information about two Sloman WYNNEs who might be the Sloman
WYNNE who wit. David POYTHRESS's 1723 land patent.

Capt. Thomas WYNNE (1657-1718) had a son Sloman who m. Elizabeth STITH.
This Thomas WYNNE was apparently b. in Charles City Co., VA, and d. in
Prince George or Surry Co. He was a militia captain in both of the latter
counties, and an interpreter for the Meherrin and Nottoway Indians. He was
married at least twice, his first wife's name not being known; the second
wife was Agnes STITH (m. prior to 1690). Sloman WYNNE would seem to be a
child by his first wife. Robert, a son by Agnes STITH, m. Martha
JEFFERSON,
great-aunt of Thomas JEFFERSON.

The second Sloman about whom I have information in the early generations of
the WYNNE family is a Sloman WYNNE who d. 1760 in Sussex Co., VA. This
Sloman WYNNE is son of Joshua WYNNE, who was living in 1734 near Stony
Creek
in Prince George Co., and who was a militia officer in Prince George in
1738. Joshua WYNNE m. Mary ---, and reared his family in Prince George Co.
He was son of Joshua WYNNE (1655, Charles City Co., VA--1715, Prince George
Co.), who was brother to Capt. Thomas above. Both were sons of Robert
WYNNE
(1622--abt. 1678), Burgess from Charles City Co., whose wife was Mary, the
widow POYTHRESS.

Since I don't have more specific information on either of these two Sloman
WYNNEs, I can only hazard a guess about which (if either) is the Sloman who
wit. David POYTHRESS's patent. My guess is that, if either, it was Sloman
s/o Thomas. This is based purely on my sense that Sloman, son of Joshua,
may have moved away from Prince George Co. by 1723, and I take it that the
patent of David POYTHRESS was in Prince George Co.?

If you think the POYTHRESS group would want to have this response, please
feel free to send it to the group. I'll also send a message to the group
on
the first generation or so of the WYNNE family, with information about its
POYTHRESS connection. Will be happy to share information about this family
with anyone interested.

Bill Lindsey

---------------------------------
Comment:
I know that Maynard will provide us with any information he may have beyond
what we have above. I'd like to get back to mtaunton@aol.com and Bill
Lindsey to see if we can get a better grip on the Sloman connections. If
this connection (Mary & Francis) proves true, then the Wynne - Poythress
connections run even deeper than we thought. It also means we should
probably take a look at the records in Canterbury, England for possible
Poythress mentions re the Wynne family.

Cheers,

Al Tims		06/07/1997 3:05:32
Pockrus of AlabamaCharles NealHelene,

Tuscaloosa is en route from my hometown of Birmingham, AL to my Poythress
grandfather's birthplace in Sumter County, AL, which is just across the
stateline (mid-state-ish) from Mississippi, not far from Meridian, MS.
1826 in Tuscaloosa for Pockrus is way before my particular Poythress folks
got to Sumter Co, AL in 1853 from Mecklenburg Co, VA, but I have yet to
figure out for sure WHY they went there, and why THEN, since Sumter began
as a county (& was booming) in 1832.

Madison Co, AL is not anywhere that I am aware of any Poythress folks ever
having even visited.

In Mississippi Territory earlier (date not coming to me right now), we
found a Littleberry Poythress over in Yalobusha County.

The Tuscaloosa Genealogical Society's Morning Group has a dynamite group
who are willing to work on and answer brief research questions for members
if you are interested in joining. Their dues are $8 per year. They ask
you to list up to 8 surnames you are researching when you send your name,
address, and check pbl to "Morning Group, T.G.S." to them at P. O. Box
20565, Tuscaloosa, AL 35402. They send out 3 newsletters per year (March,
July, Nov.)
Don't know if any of this helps, but there it is for the offering.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/07/1997 3:18:28
Re: Pockrus nameCharles NealI personally have never run across that particular name (or any that
readily now occurs to me of possibly being an alternate spelling of it),
but I can certainly see the point that with the appropriate combination of
educational shortcomings / hearing of the clerk or the census taker /
speech of the person saying the name / etc, that it might have occured
from someone who come from some more-recognized-spelling of our "Poythress"
name (of which I have found spellings aplenty)


06/07/1997 8:50:35
"Men & Armour"Charles NealPat & Maurice Crewe,

Could I perhaps get the full source citation for the Men & Armour book,
please? (Including identity of the author, orig publication date, the 1980
publisher's name & location) Thanks!

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/07/1997 8:50:37
"The Other" Bolling Batte PapersCharles NealMaynard,

I feel sure the Bolling Batte papers would be in their Archives-only
room(s), where my recollection is LVA has a visitor sign in with full
identification & where the visitor can only bring in a pencil. Even any
papers the visitor wishes to bring in, for referring to while accessing any
of their collection, must be examined by the staff & cleared for entry (so
there is no confusion where the visitor's papers came from, when the
visitor is ready to LEAVE the room).

Jean (as much help as she is in most venues) would not really be of much
additional assistance in that room, it seems to me, since no visitor can
make any photocopies himself from collection items viewed in that room.
The Archives Room staff must make any photocopies the visitor wants, and my
recollection is that is more pricey than the self-service copies out in the
Library portion, but I could be recalling the cost aspect incorrectly.
Thus taking along your little recorder (which they would no doubt also have
to look at to make sure it is not some lethal piece of equipment), and
reading aloud softly the cards into the recorder for later transcription,
would probably be the more sensible way to go. Of course if you have 2
recorders, and Jean also wishes to mutter into one of them, then that would
speed things up.

I heartily recommend you squander one phone call to the LVA Archives Room
to confirm whether or not visitors can indeed look at the Batte card
collection, or whether it is tied up & unavailable all day everyday due to
them preparing it for the online view. At that time you could also inquire
about their current copying costs regarding items in the Archives Room(s),
now that they are in their wonderful new facility.

Wish I had some friend who lived there in the Holy City, as you called
Richmond !!

Ay,
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/07/1997 8:50:40
Re: British copyright of English willsRandy JonesOn Sat, 7 Jun 1997, W. David Samuelsen wrote:

> Pat Crewe is correct about the BRITISH copyright of records. All public
> records are property of the Crown there. Can't post the photocopy of the
> original BRITISH will without permission! Us Americans see it in
> opposite view.
>
> Even the 1881 census indexes the LDS is doing with lot of volunteers in
> British Isles are owned by the Crown and are being done with permission
> of HER MAJESTY.

Sorry to hear that. We here in North Carolina have an Open Records law.
Virtually all records owned by public agencies, with the exception of
personnel, investigatory, or proprietary records, must be supplied on
request, without consideration of intent of use by the requester. We can
only charge actual cost of duplication.

- Randy Jones
City of Charlotte		06/07/1997 9:09:42
Re: Pockrus nameIt strikes me that I'm the last one to be able to help: I can't even find
Fairfield County, either in NC or VA....you don't suppose Rand McNally has a
grudge or something do you? 😉

I do find a Fairfield County, SC though.

Absent the geographical link...and I'm the guy who still says Poyntz is not a
variation so take me with a shaker of salt... I have a hard time making
Pockruss fit....but I have had Poythress butchered worse in a few decades of
spelling it for everybody in
my path. I'd say unlikely but possible.

Just a way out suggestion....take a look at where he is and speculate on how
he might have gotten there from southside VA...best I can do. Hope somebody
else on the wire has a better offer.

Maynard

06/07/1997 9:24:59
Re: Views of GloucestershireTIMSHi Folks,

Not like this is a burning issue, but I gave you the wrong URL for the
Gloucestershire
pictures. For the record, it is:
http://www.demon.co.uk/fweb/dean/tourist/severn.htm

> If you'd like to get a sense of what the Gloucestershire looks like, you
> might spend a few minutes at this site.
>
> THIS WAS INCORRECT -- http://www.demon.co.fweb/dean/tourist/severn.htm
>
> ... some panoramic views of the Severn Vale taken from the Forest of
Dean.
> Cheers,
> Al

06/07/1997 9:31:48
British copyright of English willsW. David SamuelsenPat Crewe is correct about the BRITISH copyright of records. All public
records are property of the Crown there. Can't post the photocopy of the
original BRITISH will without permission! Us Americans see it in
opposite view.

Even the 1881 census indexes the LDS is doing with lot of volunteers in
British Isles are owned by the Crown and are being done with permission
of HER MAJESTY.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W. David Samuelsen
Will Testators Indexes Online
Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~		06/07/1997 9:44:38
Re: Fw: David Pockrus of SC!Marion & Helene PockrusLinda: you've said it. It was interesting to note that the Pockrus family
didn't like to fight in wars. We have 3 that were in the Confederacy.
They were just farmers. I always wondered about this. None were in the
Revolution at all.
I saw the popuation of the Fairfield area when I researched back in the
ALabama area and it was something like 6000 persons. Very scattered. I
always wondered if they came because the land was given to them.May have
not fought in the Revolution because they were NOT HERE?
Helene

----------
> From: Starr
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Fw: David Pockrus of SC!
> Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 1:45 PM
>
>
> Let me toss in a penny's worth of opinion -- not worth the full 2 cents
> I'm sure -- on Fairfield Co. SC. I "believe" the area that is now
> Fairfield Co. was on the outer fringes of the area mid-to-late 1700s
knows
> as "The Waxhaws". Many people headed for NC spilled over into SC.
Everyone
> that I've researched in the Waxhaws were Scots-Irish from PA, but my
> research has been limited to a couple families.
>
> SC was settled on two fronts -- from Charleston northwestward and
> southeasterward from VA/NC -- wilderness lay in between the two areas of
> settlement. Lacking dates on when the family of this David Pockruss
> arrived in NC / SC, they could have been there before the Rev. War.
> However, I personally can document other southside families (many living
> near POYTHRESS people in VA) who moved south into GA after the Rev. War.
> Although I haven't found them, one line is supposed to have so-journed
in
> SC before moving into GA -- perhaps I should look in Fairfield Co.
> That's the extent of my knowledge of this part of SC; unless someone else
> jumps in, we'll all have to wait for our resident expert. Linda
>
>
> Linda Sparks Starr
> starr81@ix.netcom.com
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		06/07/1997 10:01:51
Re: Pockrus of AlabamaMarion & Helene PockrusBy the time David got to what is now Madison CO., it was still Mississippi
Territory in 1804. One of his sons was in the Talladega area in the 1950
census, and he is our direct ancestor. I like your idea of a newsletter
or genealogical group in the area. I hadn't tried that. We spent 2 weeks
in the Jackson Co., Madison Co., area doing research. Actually Marion got
sick and spent a week in the VA at Birmingham and what a delightful library
there was there. I had a field day researching then would drive to the
hospital in the late afternoon. The Librarians there were really helpful.
We had to ship a box of material back UPS. There are still Pockruses
living on the original land grant that David had in the JacksonCo area. IT
was a fun trip, except for Marion having a gram negative septecimia. He
left the hospital against medical advise as we had to get back to Texas to
get a plane home. We had planned to drive back but as we were a week late
we flew from Birmingham. Pretty country but too swmpy for me! I llike our
desert climate. Allergies simmer down.
Thanks Charles!
Helene
----------
From: Charles Neal
To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Pockrus of Alabama
Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 3:18 PM

Helene,

Tuscaloosa is en route from my hometown of Birmingham, AL to my Poythress
grandfather's birthplace in Sumter County, AL, which is just across the
stateline (mid-state-ish) from Mississippi, not far from Meridian, MS.
1826 in Tuscaloosa for Pockrus is way before my particular Poythress folks
got to Sumter Co, AL in 1853 from Mecklenburg Co, VA, but I have yet to
figure out for sure WHY they went there, and why THEN, since Sumter began
as a county (& was booming) in 1832.

Madison Co, AL is not anywhere that I am aware of any Poythress folks ever
having even visited.

In Mississippi Territory earlier (date not coming to me right now), we
found a Littleberry Poythress over in Yalobusha County.

The Tuscaloosa Genealogical Society's Morning Group has a dynamite group
who are willing to work on and answer brief research questions for members
if you are interested in joining. Their dues are $8 per year. They ask
you to list up to 8 surnames you are researching when you send your name,
address, and check pbl to "Morning Group, T.G.S." to them at P. O. Box
20565, Tuscaloosa, AL 35402. They send out 3 newsletters per year (March,
July, Nov.)

Don't know if any of this helps, but there it is for the offering.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
----------		06/07/1997 10:16:13
Fw: David Pockrus of SC!TIMSHi Folks,

Glad to see that others have jumped in with some observations for Helene.
She sent me the message below just yesterday. I mistakenly believed that
it went out to the entire list. Helene's people were in the general
vicinity of the Poythress migrants, but not exactly the same place and same
times -- to the best of my knowledge. I'm pleased that we are keeping an
open mind on this issue. I concur that the Pockrus spelling isn't one I've
ever seen. Then again, I admit that I've never looked for the name.

I hope Helene's message will help clarify time and place issues and that
we'll consult our various reference sources -- perhaps we'll find new
information that might help.

Cheers,
Al Tims
----------
> From: Marion & Helene Pockrus
> To: TIMS
> Subject: Re: David Pockrus of SC!
> Date: Friday, June 06, 1997 6:49 PM
>
> AL:
> Thanks for the encouragement-it has taken years to get to this point.
> Grandpa disappeared in 1895-murdered they say-but after 32, yes 32 years,
we
> found him, so I never give up. But David and a possible brother ,
> H.Puckrus were in Alabama. David about 1804, when it was Mississippi
> Territory,then later Madison CO., and H.Puckrus was a witness to a will
in
> Tuscaloosa in1826.I said he was of NC, I guess, but it was SC ! I'm
> embarassed! Please pass my blunder on to your board experts in SC (or
VA?)
> To further confuse the issue he was the first of 3 David Pockruses.
> Helene
>
> !1840 Census: Madison Co., AL, lists David Pockrus, age about 65.
>
> !1800 Census: Listed in Fairfield Co. S.Car. page 206 col 00100 film
181422
> (Pockras). One Male 16/26, 3 females under 10, 1 female 16/26, 1 female
> 45/over.
>
> !1810 Census: Listed in Fairfield Co. S.Car, page 202 film 181421
(Pocras).
> One
> male 26/45, 3 females under 10, 2 females 10/16, 1 female 26/45.
>
> !1818 Land Records: David Pockrus bought land in Madison Co. Ala (see
> below).
>
> !1830 Census: 117 3rd 4 T Madison County, Alabama.
>
> !1840 Census: 185 South Half Madison County, Alambama (2 listing for
> David
> Pockrus).
>
> ----------
> > From: TIMS
> > To: Marion & Helene Pockrus
> > Subject: Re: Names
> > Date: Friday, June 06, 1997 12:14 PM
> >
> > Helene,
> >
> > Our resident North Carolina specialist -- Jean Poythress Spille is off
on
> > vacation at some wonderful spot along the outer banks. She'll be back
> with
> > us next week and might have some good clues for you. I know that she
has
> > been interested in tracking the known spelling variations. I can't say
> > that Pockrus has ever emerged for me, but I find that I'm discovering
new
> > information all the time -- some quite unexpected.
> >
> > Hang in there -- keep posting your query -- don't get discouraged.
North
> > Carolina has the highest concentration of people with the Poythress
> surname
> > in the entire country, yet is grossly understudied -- so far.
> >
> > I hope others on the list will respond with new information. Don't be
> shy
> > about pushing us along... 🙂
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Al Tims		06/07/1997 10:57:04
The Sloman - Poythress - Wynne ConnectionsTIMSPoythress List,

We've had several exchanges related to the Sloman surname over the past few
months. I can't say that we've done a particularly good job of staying
with this all important topic. Maybe we can do better with more of the
records now available.
This connection is of interest for several reasons:
1. It is suggested as a possible maiden name for the wife of Francis
Poythress (original immigrant).
2. It is closely associated with the Wynne family
3. It shows up in connection with David Poythress in the early 1700s.

Ann Woodlief's web page describes the early Woodlief-Wynne-Poythress
connections. She cites Sloman as the maiden name for Mary Poythress. Mary
later married Robert Wynne (after 1651). (Note: the link to Ann's page is
on the allied family page at our web site). By the way, Ann just sent me a
note saying that she is going to put a link to our web page on her Woodlief
page.

Immediately below is part of a note I recently sent to Ann, followed by her
response. I find what she says quite interesting and worthy of further
exploration.

Al Tims Wrote to Ann Woodlief:

..... You mention "Rubyn Ogburn's As I was told about the Ogburn & Wynne
Families, 198? and research done by Elizabeth Anne Taylor Kerman." Can you
tell me if this information is part of Ogburn's 198?
book, or if it originates with Elizabeth Ann Taylor Kerman?

Ann Woodlief Wrote in Response:
--There's a strange story about the Sloman name. In the Library of Virginia
I found Ogburn's book, and on page 101, it says "Mary Poythress was the
widow of Captain Francis Poythress, who owned the plantation adjoining that
of Captain Wynne. Careful inquiry into the Poythress family as to the name
of Mary's father has not been successful. She is the one unidentified
branch of this family." Added in handwriting is a sentence saying "She is
Mary Sloman."

There are other handwritten addenda to the genealogy tree (dates) which
have proven to be correct. I know that's hardly proof, but it seemed worth
adding to the genealogy for the time being. So far as I know, there's no
indication who owned that book before it went to the Library, but I
wouldn't be surprised if it didn't come from the author who may have found
more information after publishing. She collected a great deal of material
and everything else is well documented. Sloman is a strange name, so maybe
it can be tracked.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
More Exchanges:

Earlier this year, Maynard Poythress had an exchange with mtaunton@aol.com
re the Sloman surname. Unfortunately, I don't seem to have archived her
original message. I expect that Maynard will be able to fill us in.

Subject: Mary (Sloman?)
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 17:41:35 -0500 (EST)
From: VKRatliff@aol.com
To: mtaunton@inet.ed.gov
CC: Albert R Tims

Received your material today and I appreciate it very much. I must say,
given that everyone seems to be guessing with no rationale at all, you have
made the most intelligent speculation I have seen to date.

One of our guys, Al Tims, he of the bottomless swamp that has a thousand
deed transactions, has found a land patent showing Sloman Wynn with land
adjoining that of David Poythress and Sloman witnessing the transaction. I
don't know deeds from nothing so I'm attaching the message from Al.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: The above description is accurate. You'll find these documents in
the deed data pool lists on the web page.

Below is a post from another Wynne researcher re Sloman, Wynne and Sloman
Wynne. Bill proves even more detail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:25:30 -0800

From: "William D. Lindsey"
To: Albert R Tims

Dear Albert R. Tims,

I'm responding to your message of 11 March about Sloman WYNNE nd David
POYTHRESS.

I have (sparse) information about two Sloman WYNNEs who might be the Sloman
WYNNE who wit. David POYTHRESS's 1723 land patent.

Capt. Thomas WYNNE (1657-1718) had a son Sloman who m. Elizabeth STITH.
This Thomas WYNNE was apparently b. in Charles City Co., VA, and d. in
Prince George or Surry Co. He was a militia captain in both of the latter
counties, and an interpreter for the Meherrin and Nottoway Indians. He was
married at least twice, his first wife's name not being known; the second
wife was Agnes STITH (m. prior to 1690). Sloman WYNNE would seem to be a
child by his first wife. Robert, a son by Agnes STITH, m. Martha
JEFFERSON,
great-aunt of Thomas JEFFERSON.

The second Sloman about whom I have information in the early generations of
the WYNNE family is a Sloman WYNNE who d. 1760 in Sussex Co., VA. This
Sloman WYNNE is son of Joshua WYNNE, who was living in 1734 near Stony
Creek
in Prince George Co., and who was a militia officer in Prince George in
1738. Joshua WYNNE m. Mary ---, and reared his family in Prince George Co.
He was son of Joshua WYNNE (1655, Charles City Co., VA--1715, Prince George
Co.), who was brother to Capt. Thomas above. Both were sons of Robert
WYNNE
(1622--abt. 1678), Burgess from Charles City Co., whose wife was Mary, the
widow POYTHRESS.

Since I don't have more specific information on either of these two Sloman
WYNNEs, I can only hazard a guess about which (if either) is the Sloman who
wit. David POYTHRESS's patent. My guess is that, if either, it was Sloman
s/o Thomas. This is based purely on my sense that Sloman, son of Joshua,
may have moved away from Prince George Co. by 1723, and I take it that the
patent of David POYTHRESS was in Prince George Co.?

If you think the POYTHRESS group would want to have this response, please
feel free to send it to the group. I'll also send a message to the group
on
the first generation or so of the WYNNE family, with information about its
POYTHRESS connection. Will be happy to share information about this family
with anyone interested.

Bill Lindsey

---------------------------------
Comment:
I know that Maynard will provide us with any information he may have beyond
what we have above. I'd like to get back to mtaunton@aol.com and Bill
Lindsey to see if we can get a better grip on the Sloman connections. If
this connection (Mary & Francis) proves true, then the Wynne - Poythress
connections run even deeper than we thought. It also means we should
probably take a look at the records in Canterbury, England for possible
Poythress mentions re the Wynne family.

Cheers,

Al Tims		06/07/1997 12:19:07
Re: Pockrus-Cochran-WaldropMarion & Helene PockrusThanks Maynard. I've tried ships lists and every book I can find of Irish
and Scottish imigrants. I've followed collateral line which are Cochran,
Boggs and Waldrops and those 4 families stayed together over 150 years
until they were in AR, LA and Texas.
Usually the Pockruses worked the farms, The Boggs were the farmers as were
the ochranes, and the Waldrops were the preachers. I have large data bases
on these families because of the tracking.
Helene
----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Pockrus name
> Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 9:24 AM
>
> It strikes me that I'm the last one to be able to help: I can't even
find
> Fairfield County, either in NC or VA....you don't suppose Rand McNally
has a
> grudge or something do you? 😉
>
> I do find a Fairfield County, SC though.
>
> Absent the geographical link...and I'm the guy who still says Poyntz is
not a
> variation so take me with a shaker of salt... I have a hard time making
> Pockruss fit....but I have had Poythress butchered worse in a few decades
of
> spelling it for everybody in
> my path. I'd say unlikely but possible.
>
> Just a way out suggestion....take a look at where he is and speculate on
how
> he might have gotten there from southside VA...best I can do. Hope
somebody
> else on the wire has a better offer.
>
> Maynard		06/07/1997 12:51:39
Jamestown HistoryThere is an interesting "time-line" history of Jamestown at:

http://www.tobacco.org/History/Jamestown/html

Obviously, the sponsor is the tobacco industry but I didn't find a single
instance of
propogandizing.

Maynard

06/08/1997 2:16:17
Cornish American SocietyBelow as info....a shot in the dark.....

(letterhead)

June 8, 1997

The Cornish-American Heritage Society
Troy Tower
40 Conger St., # 97
Bloomfield, NJ 07003

Dear Sir or Madam:

The Poythress family has an internet web site and a discussion group
operating on the internet at the address:

http://www.minn.net/~atims/

We have chased our name all over the British Isles, finally concluding that
the familys history immediately before immigrating to the U. S. was Newent
in Gloucestershire. However, we believe the Poythress origins to be Cornish,
beginning with citations of the family in 16th century Cornwall in the town
of St. Just.

If any of your members have the name Poythress or any of its myriad
variations, we would be pleased to have them visit the homepage on the
internet. If access on-line is not available I may be reached by regular
mail at the address show above if there is any interest.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

John Maynard Poythress		06/08/1997 2:16:20
Re: Will of Johane PewterasTIMSHi Folks,

I'm delighted to see this post. Thank you, Pat & Maurice, for sharing this
with us. I will give it a place of honor on the Web page. If you have any
commentary or annotation you would care to add, please do send it along.

As for what goes on the Web -- virtually anything anyone believes will help
further our research. This includes documents, abstracts, discussions,
queries, images, interests, etc. I encourage submissions of information
from all. I've designed a basic structure for displaying the information
and am now hoping for help from everyone on the list to make the web page a
research tool of real significance.

Cheers,
Al

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: maurice.crewe@virgin.net
> Subject: Re: Will of Johane Pewteras
> Date: Sunday, June 08, 1997 10:45 AM
>
> Pat.....GREAT POST!....I will zip it on to the group to save you the
trouble.
> Here it comes, folks, with same title Pat gave it.		06/08/1997 4:24:28
Johane Pewteras, widowPat & Maurice CreweMany apologies for my finger trouble (or maybe brain trouble) in the
introduction to the will of Johane Pewteras, it should have said that she
was buried on 20th September 1583. She must have been ill when she made
her will on 2nd November 1582 but survived a further 10 months.
Maynard - Johane (Joan) was a widow and therefore would be hard pressed
to be the father of Francis. She has a son John, who could be the John
Poydresse who died in Taynton, near Newent around 1649 and who I think is
probably the father of Francis baptised in 1609 in Newent. Joan also had
a grandson John who could be the above mentioned John Poydresse but it is
only speculation.
Perhaps matters will become clearer when I have done the other 2 will
transcriptions.
Sorry again for my date error,
Regards, Pat Crewe		06/08/1997 7:12:17
Johane Pewteras' willCharles NealPat,

THank you so much for the lovely transcription of Joan's will. It
certainly makes sense that she could have been grandmother of Francis, as
you mentioned being your thoughts of probability in your message this
morning.

Of further interest to me is that one of the people she remembers in her
will is a Johane/Joan Mayow, and she mentions Thomas Mayow owing her 40
shillings. The MAYO family were prominent players in early Virginia
history, I seem to recall.

All for now, folks. Thanks again Pat. Look forward to more of your good
transcriptions when time allows.

Ay,
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/08/1997 7:37:25
Pewtris surnamePat & Maurice CreweOn the question of whether the Pewtris/Pewteras surname from Dymock is a
variation of Poythress, I think I may have confirmed this. In the will
of Johane Pewteras of Dymock dated 1582, she mentions the 8 sheep that
Richard Pewteras of Fownhope has from her. Looking in the Herefordshire
IGIs I see there is a Richard Poytheres who married an Anna Skynner in
1572 in Fownhope with Fawleye and I would think he is most likely the one
mentioned in her will. The spelling being now much closer to Poythress.
I shall be sending Maynard the transcription of this will very shortly.
Regards, Pat Crewe		06/08/1997 8:54:03
Re: Will of Johane PewterasPat.....GREAT POST!....I will zip it on to the group to save you the trouble.
Here it comes, folks, with same title Pat gave it.

As for your question about when to send and when to post, I don't know that
there is a "protocol" for what goes to group, what goes to list, etc. I'll
just tell you what I do and somebody may have a better suggestion. For
something that has the slightest chance of being of interest to the group (as
Johane's will obviously does) or even a musing that would be of general
interest I send to group. After all, if a particular person is NOT
interested, clicking it off his or her screen is simply a matter of hitting
the delete button.

For something going to group in which I'm asking a question or making a
comment to a particular individual I sent to group also but in the "body" of
the message I would simply say that person's name in some form of "up front"
address. The group is not offended and all understand that is also an
invitation or them to add something to the subject if they have it or even
ask a question.

For a personal e-mail, I just send to the person involved at his or her
e-mail.

For determination of "posts" to the web page, we seem to have all, by mutual
consent, awarded that dubious honor (dubious because its work) to Al Tims. As
a very general observation if what one posts is a document or a more or less
formal
consideration of a question, Al will most likely post it. If its of a
"conversational" nature and thus would not suit the board because the
"thread" of the subject is needed Al won't post it....altho if its important,
he'll likely re-word it and add to any existing "thread" on that particular
theme.

None of the above, of course, prevents one ASKING Al to post something....my
experience is that he is perceptive and as list-meister has a good grip on
the
"flow" of these things and no one has ever had to even ask him to
post....although he himself would acknowledge his mortality (maybe ;))and not
mind in the least if you addressed the subject with him.

As for the will itself....

* with the connections made in your earlier e-mail, I don't have a bit of
problem making Johane the tentative father of Francis. Until we can flesh
the thing out, he is as likely a candidate as I have seen. Don't know how
you do it genealogically but I have found it goes well if one doesn't
interrupt the "tree" just because there is a blank; put somebody in there
with a question mark until you find out you are wrong.

* question: you say buried 28 Sept. 1873 but will says he died in 1582. Was
he reinterred or is this a "typo" error?

* interesting that all the multitude of sites on the web that include
Francis, make his father Joshua. My guess would be that, while both would be
errors, its easier to
"mistake" Johane into Joshua than John into Joshua....well, slightly anyway.

* also interesting that each and every one of these sites puts the birth of
Francis' father "Joshua" as 1582, same as the death date of this gentleman.
I'm NOT able to draw from this any conclusion with respect to whether 1609
as Francis' baptism date is close or far from Francis' birthdate.

* by the way, we have not put much faith in these various sites...simply
because the information has appeared so universally and so precisely
identical we think they may have all just innocently copied from each other.

* a thread we might want to look for is that these sites also put Francis'
mother
and (theoretically) Johane's wife down as "Peachy", some with Peachy as
first name and last name unknown, others with Peachy as last name and first
name unknown. Who knows, if they got the date right and the name close,
maybe these folks stumbled on to a connection for the mother/wife in the
scenario.

I won't belabor the issue any further than to say this is a super post and I
think a significant document..

Best,

Maynard		06/08/1997 9:45:08
Mother of All Search EnginesDon't know how it works or how it got it's name but "Dogpile"
(http://www.dogpile.com) is a neat alternative to hopping from one Web
searcher to another. Dogpile uses one entry form to comb 15 Web search
services (AltaVista,
Lycos, HotBot, Magellen, Excite, Yahoo, etc. etc.), seven Usenet catalogs and
three FTP sites. The engine supports proximity and Boolean operators such as
AND, NEAR, and NOT or even phrases such as "free Mac software".

Thought the group might like to know about it. It sure saves a ton of time
on a search and the trade off is not as much excess detail as one might
expect.

Maynard		06/08/1997 9:45:15
Will from Pat CreweSee seperate message to Pat Crewe re this. Original from Pat is below. You
may need your asbestos gloves for this one.

Maynard

Subj: Will of Johane Pewteras
Date: 97-06-08 04:03:56 EDT
From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net (Pat & Maurice Crewe)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com (John Maynard Poythress)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------AEE24505DF6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Maynard,
I am sending this to you and hope you will decide whether this goes round to
everyone or
on to the web pages
Regards, Pat

--------------AEE24505DF6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="JOHANEWL.TXT"

This is a transcription of the will of Joan Pewteras of Dymock who was buried
there on the 20th
September 1873. The spelling is old English and I have kept as near as
possible to the original. Where I
am not certain I have used ?. I was interested to see that she had a link
with the Pewteras/Poytheres
family of Fownhope, Herefordshire.

JOHANE PEWTRESSE

In the name of God amen, the second daye of November in the yere of our Lorde
God one thousand
five hundred eightie two, and in the twentieth and fowerth yere of the Raigne
of our sovraigne Lady
Queen Elizabeth. I Johane Pewteras of the parish of Dymocke in the county of
Glouc., widow, being
sick in bodie but praysed be God of good and perfect memorie do ordeyne and
make my last will and
testament in manner and forme following; that is to saye, first I bequeath my
soule to almightie God my
maker and saviour Jesus Christe, and my bodie to be buried in the weston
grave in the parish
churchyarde of Dymocke.
Item I give and bequeath unto John Pewteras my sone one blacke cowe one redd
bullocke my gelding,
sixe busshells of barlie four busshells of wheate two busshells of peas, two
busshells of rye four
busshells of wheat that shalbe growinge or increasinge of the lande which I
holde of Thomas Alcocke to
be delivered at the next harvest that it shalbe with white corne, and two
busshells of wheat at harvest
next of the increase of the lande which I or Thomas my sone doe holde of
Richarde Sindrie?
Item I give and bequeath unto John Pewteras Johane Pewteras Margery Pewteras
Elizabeth Pewteras
Jane Pewteras Anne Pewteras Alis Pewteras & Katherine Pewteras, son and
daughters of the said John
Pewteras my sone, eight wether sheepe the which Richard Pewteras of Fownhope
hath of me to halfes
to be equally divided amongst them.
Item I give and beqeath to Anne Morrell my goddaughter one blacke cowe two
sheepe one canvas my
greatest coofer (coffer?), one pewter charger one flaxen towell wrought with
blewe (blue).
Item I give and bequeath to Margarett Morrell one yearlinge cowe calfe, two
sheepe my lesser coofer
(coffer?) one payer (pair) of hurden? sheets one pewter charger.
Item I give to Margery Morrell two sheepe
Item I give to Syble Pewteras my best coate
Item I give to Syble Morrell my daughter my first gowne and my peticoate
Item I give unto Johane Mayow my little brass pan
Item I give unto Anne Dunbridge my servant mayde (maid) one sheepe
Item I give and bequeath unto Margery Spilman my daughter one callow heifer
one stale? of bees, and
all the sheepe which she hath of me already in her custodie
Item I give unto John Pewteras my said sone Johns sone one sheepe
Item I give unto Richarde Pewteras my sone one callow bullocke the which he
hath in his custody?
Item I give to Anne Spilman one pewter charger
Item I give and bequeath unto Margarett Morrell Margery Morrell Anne Morrell
the fortie shillings
which Thomas Mayow oweth unto me to be equally divided amongst them
All the rest of my goods debts and chattells unbequeathed my debts payed and
my funeral discharged,
I give and bequeath unto Thomas Pewteras my sone whom I do ordeyne make &
appoint my full and
whole executor of this my last will and testament
And of the execution of the same I make and ordeyne Richard Clarke my
kinnsman overseer to see this
my will truly & formely done
These beinge witness Richarde Clarke, John Pewteras, Syble Pewteras,
Syble Morrell, John Drewe
with others		06/08/1997 9:50:35
Re: Fw: David Pockrus of SC!StarrHelene and POYTHRESS group,
I wouldn't say they escaped the war by being in Fairfield
Co. SC -- some of the worst fighting was in SC and GA -- didn't make the
histories because it wasn't major battles, just neighbor vs neighbor and
brother/father vs brother/son. When the war effort came to a stand still in
the north, British moved south thinking the southerners were mostly for
them and would march north with the British. Not so -- Col. Elijah Clark
over in Ga took his family and about 100 settlers over into TN to ride out
much of the war; those that stayed kept quiet for one never was sure which
neighbor was on which side. There was a lot of guerilla (is that the
correct spelling?) warfare -- men being taken out of their beds at night
and shot/hung in front of their kids. Some of the "hard feelings" actually
started in NC with the Regulator Movement c1767 -- SC had it's own
regulator movement -- only "if memory serves me of this" NCians wanted less
governtment and SCians wanted a government of any kind. Charleston
completely ignored the up country people -- or so they thought. The SCians
wanted "local control" instead of making the long trek to Charleston to
file deeds etc.

Back to the RW itself; a widow's pension I have says she was at her
Uncle's house -- he was a Capt. in the SC militia -- she and her cousins
were told to undress down to their undies (probably still three layers of
clothes back then) and the buckles from their shoes and jewelry was stolen.
So some was humiliation of the civilian population too. After her marriage
1782 and her husband was away in the war effort, their horses and crops
were stolen "usual things in those days" -- to papaphrase her. The sad
thing is, it was neighbors doing this, not the British.

Even though they didn't fight, farmers were part of the war effort --
quartermasters from both sides (RW and CW) stole food. British qtrmasters
"took", but Americans (Rebels) gave receipts which were turned in after the
war. There was conscription during the CW in the south -- so even if your
ancestors wanted to stay out of the war, they were forced to go. I was
surprised to learn that SC was the only southern state which didn't have at
least one unit of "home grown" soldiers who formed a unit and fought for
the north. Can you imagine what their families went thru! Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		06/08/1997 11:05:52
Re: UK COPYRIGHTHey! Maurice! Didn't know we were working with a pro. Okay, guys, everybody
clean your act up ;). And Pat said by golly she was doing all the talking.

Maynard

06/09/1997 3:22:21
Ploddy House & EmletsI'm posting below this document which Pat Crewe mentioned she would share
with us....and I'll post it, Pat, just to save you the trouble. Thanks a
million for sharing this with us.

Ploddy House and Emlets, NEWENT

11 Apr. 1649

Manor of Newent: Court Baron of Thos. Morgan, Esq., Wm. Morgan, Esq., John
Thorpe, gent. and others; before Wm. Sheppard, Esq., steward.

Surrender of 2 copyhold tenements called Ploddy House and Emlets, late in the
tenure of John Poydresse, decd., with all lands appertaining thereto which
the said John held for life; and Admission of Joan Singleton, widow, to whom
the property is granted with her son Francis and her dr. Joan for the life of
the longest survivor; at an annual rent of 17/6 and "two fatt capons" at
Pentecost, a heriot when due, and all other customary services. Fine of L250
paid to the Lords of the Manor for admission.

Endorsed: "Ambrose Cotterell of Newent in the County of Gloucr.,glover,
maketh oath that the within-named Jone Singleton Francis her sonne and Jone
her daughter were liveing and in health within a fortnight last past & that
the said Jone Singleton the Mother was then in possession of the messuage &
lands therein granted her"

_____________________________________

Note: This copy of Court Roll was purchased from Myers (booksellers), 1948

End of document.		06/09/1997 6:30:28
Re: Pockrus of AlabamaCharles NealHelene,

Glad you enjoyed my hometown's Library; I, too, would love to have more
time to research within its wonderful halls.

Caution: Talladega is on the EAST side of Alabama, nearer to Georgia.
Tuscaloosa (to which I thought you were referring & to which I was
referring) is on the WEST side of AL, nearer to Mississippi). So be sure
the Tuscaloosa Gen Society's Morning Group is where you need help, before
joining...

I know that my hubby's name still prints on all our messages, since we
subscribed to CompuServe under his name initially & they won't let us
change that. But be assured that genealogically you are corresponding with
his better half 😉

Barbara 6/9/97
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/09/1997 7:41:14
Re: UK COPYRIGHTRandy JonesThanks for the clarification.

- Randy Jones

******************************************************************
* http://www.charweb.org *
Randy Jones, Webmaster * government - /government *
Charlotte's Web * transportation - /trans.html *
rjones@charweb.org * community theatre - /arts/theatre.html*
* genealogy - /gen *
******************************************************************

On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Pat & Maurice Crewe wrote:

> Greetings Poythress pursuers
>
> Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988
> Section 49 Material which is comprised in public records within the meaning
> of the Public Records Act 1958, the Public Records (Scotland)Act 1937 or the
> Public Records Act (NI) 1923 which are open to public inspection in pursuance
> of that Act, may be copied, and a copy may be supplied to any person, by or
> with the authority of any officer appointed under that Act, without infringement
> of copyright.
>
> Thats what the Act says. I fear I did not explain myself in the earlier
> message. Randy was right to say there is no copyright problem with
> supplying the initial copy of a public record to an individual for their
> private study or research. The problem arises if the recipient wants
> to make further copies and pass these on to other people, perhaps to
> make some commercial gain. The original photocopies from the
> record office are endorsed copyright - not to be copied without permission.
> American law is different and I am all in favour of freedom of information,
> but I also see the sense of protecting any share of profit that may be due
> to the Record Office. It is a pity the law cannot make exceptions for
> family historians.
>
> ********************************************************************************
> Maurice Crewe TEL: 01344 85 6694 FAX: 01344 85 4840
> Librarian
> National Meteorological Library & Archive London Road
> Bracknell
> Berkshire RG12 2SZ email:- mecrewe@meto.gov.uk
>
> Thats with the paid hat on! I hope it helps.
> Regards
> Maurice
>
>		06/09/1997 10:01:59
UK COPYRIGHTPat & Maurice CreweGreetings Poythress pursuers

Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988
Section 49 Material which is comprised in public records within the meaning
of the Public Records Act 1958, the Public Records (Scotland)Act 1937 or the
Public Records Act (NI) 1923 which are open to public inspection in pursuance
of that Act, may be copied, and a copy may be supplied to any person, by or
with the authority of any officer appointed under that Act, without infringement
of copyright.

Thats what the Act says. I fear I did not explain myself in the earlier
message. Randy was right to say there is no copyright problem with
supplying the initial copy of a public record to an individual for their
private study or research. The problem arises if the recipient wants
to make further copies and pass these on to other people, perhaps to
make some commercial gain. The original photocopies from the
record office are endorsed copyright - not to be copied without permission.
American law is different and I am all in favour of freedom of information,
but I also see the sense of protecting any share of profit that may be due
to the Record Office. It is a pity the law cannot make exceptions for
family historians.

********************************************************************************
Maurice Crewe TEL: 01344 85 6694 FAX: 01344 85 4840
Librarian
National Meteorological Library & Archive London Road
Bracknell
Berkshire RG12 2SZ email:- mecrewe@meto.gov.uk

Thats with the paid hat on! I hope it helps.
Regards
Maurice		06/09/1997 10:20:52
PIERCE familyStarrHello POYTHRESS rooters,
I realize I'm breaking copyright laws by posting this
from Quaker-roots to this list, but I THINK it's something
the rest of you should see. I say 'think" because I may
be wrong -- but isn't the surname PIERCE also raised as a
possible surname for wife of "someone back there" instead
of POYTHRESS? Can't you tell I'm one of those lurking on
this list

This lady was responding to another's query about the
BALLARD family. What I'm wondering, has anyone checked
Hinshaw for those early NC POYTHRESSes?

>I have recently found information, without any details yet,
>that the family of John PEIRCE or at least his children
>are included in the records of Perquimens Monthly Meeting in NC.
>This John PEIRCE, born c1645, was the oldest son
>of Col. William PEIRCE of Cople, Westmoreland Co.,
>supposedly the son of Captian William PEIRCE of Jamestown
>(but I have never seen any documentation that seems reliable),
>John PIERCE's first marriage was to Mary SCOTT in 1665
>in Albermarle Co., NC, by whom he had at least 7 children.
>Mary SCOTT's parents were Joseph and Mary SCOTT
>John PEIRCE died in1692 in Perquimans Co., NC.
>
>I am trying to determine whether the PEIRCE family
>had become Quakers at a certain time
>or whether John PEIRCE became a Quaker
>through the influence of his wife's SCOTT family.
>
>
>Kathryn Schultz
>jschultz@netten.net
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		06/10/1997 6:57:06
Mary WoodiefAl......

When I just snapped off the shot about Mary Woodlief being the second missing
child in John's will it was before I looked at the Woodlief web page.

See under John Woodliffe III. He, according to the Woodlief pages, m. Mary
WYNNE....and "Mary was the daughter of Col. Robert Wynn (1622-1678) and
Mary Frances Sloman (m. 1 to Francis Poythress)...etc.

Then in the next generation John Woodlief IV (ca 1673-after 1741) m. Mary
Poythress.

Obviously Mary2 who married John Woodlief IV is the one in question with
respect to your first question. However, now look at the relationship in the
prior generation! The Mary Frances Sloman citation is one I sure would like
to see some documentation for. Somehow Mary(2) was related to the John
Woodlief she married but I can't focus my mind hard enough to figure out what
it would be.

MP		06/11/1997 1:18:29
Glos. FHSPat & Maurice CreweHallo all and especially Maynard,
You are right I am a member of the Gloucestershire FHS and I don't see
much point in the group joining as well. I have a list of members
interests and if there are any surnames any one would like me to look up,
I should be most willing. I am also a member of the Berkshire FHS, the
Devon FHS, the Suffolk FHS, the Charlton Kings (Glos) Local History
Society and the Bristol & Glos. Archaeological Soc. so the above offer
applies to the other counties too.
As to whether Poyntz is a variant of Poythress, I should think it
unlikely but you never know.
I have the 1988 sheets of Herefordshire IGIs for Poythress (there are
only 42 entries) but some of these are early records and most are from
Fownhope with Fawleye. I have always thought the family could originate
from there and since finding the mention of a Richard Pewteres from
Fownhope in the will of Joan, which is now on the web pages, I think we
should try to investigate this further. When I get the chance I will
have a look to see whether there are Pewtres entries in the
IGIs for Herefordshire.
Regards, Pat		06/11/1997 9:27:40
Re: Glos. FHSTIMSPat,

Thank you for your kind offer. As I recall, Liz Jack also is a
member/officer of the Gloucestershire FHS. Between the two of you we
should be in a good position to stay abreast of any new information and
persons sharing our interest in the Poythress family name.

I remain quite interested in the range of Poythress spellings in early
records for Francis and for his son, John. For the original (Virginia)
Francis, we see the name spelled Poetres (1637), Poythers(1637), Poythres
(1648) and Poyethres (1639) and for son Francis we see -- Poytres
(Poytheres), Poytres (1681), Poythries, Poytries (1682), Poytheres (1683).
For son John we see Poytries being used in 1701. As far as I can tell, we
don't see the modern spelling (Poythress) until 1703 when it is used in a
land patent for John. Then again, his Will (proven 1712) reverts back to
Poythres.

If others have records showing the Poythress spelling in use prior to 1703,
I'd be quite interested in hearing.

Pat, I wonder how difficult it might be to check for the Poythress name in
Canterbury? We know that Thomas Poythress returned to England in 1659. We
also know that he would have been closely tied (step-son) to the Wynne
family originating in Canterbury. Although, the record we have mentions
Mr. George Laud providing him with "Dyett and lodging" somewhere in
England. It still makes sense for us to at least consider the possibility
of a connection in Canterbury.

Thanks again,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Pat & Maurice Crewe
> To: Poythress group
> Subject: Glos. FHS
> Date: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 10:27 AM
>
> Hallo all and especially Maynard,
> You are right I am a member of the Gloucestershire FHS and I don't see
> much point in the group joining as well. I have a list of members
> interests and if there are any surnames any one would like me to look up,

> I should be most willing. I am also a member of the Berkshire FHS, the
> Devon FHS, the Suffolk FHS, the Charlton Kings (Glos) Local History
> Society and the Bristol & Glos. Archaeological Soc. so the above offer
> applies to the other counties too.
> As to whether Poyntz is a variant of Poythress, I should think it
> unlikely but you never know.
> I have the 1988 sheets of Herefordshire IGIs for Poythress (there are
> only 42 entries) but some of these are early records and most are from
> Fownhope with Fawleye. I have always thought the family could originate
> from there and since finding the mention of a Richard Pewteres from
> Fownhope in the will of Joan, which is now on the web pages, I think we
> should try to investigate this further. When I get the chance I will
> have a look to see whether there are Pewtres entries in the
> IGIs for Herefordshire.
> Regards, Pat		06/11/1997 9:31:04
Re: Poykress?Marion & Helene PockrusStill reminding you to watch for David Pockrus, Parkus, Poeras, Parkis,
Parcus,Parkess, Parkins,Porcrus, Pockriss, Pokris, Pockeres, and ever other
spelling, None is too far from Poykress, Poythress. Those working in S,
North Carolina or irginia, please be on the lookout for him. Appreciate
you!

Helene Pockrus

06/11/1997 9:37:56
Re: Capt. Peter WinneStarrAnother list I'm lurking on is the WORSHAM list -- again for
TRAYLORs; I suggest someone more knowledgable from this list
might want to join them. Linda

>From: DGTUTTLE@aol.com

>Hi Linda & others interested.
> Our earliest Wynne ancestor in Virginia is Robert Wynne who was born 22 Dec
>1622 Canterbury, Kent, England. He is the son of Peter Wynne & Martha
>Coppin. Robert md Mrs. Mary Poythress abt 1650 probably in Charles City Co.,
>VA. His name first appeared in the VA records in 1655 in the court orders
>of Charles City Co., VA. He was allowed to have an Indian in his service
>(Virginia Colonial Abstracts Vol 10 p 72. by Beverely Fleet)
> Robert wrote his will 1 Jul 1675 and it was proved 16 Aug 1678. An
>abstract of his will was in the Virginia Magazine of History and Biography,
>Vol. 14, p 173. One of the overseers of his estate was to be son-in-law
>Captain Francis Poythres. Son-in-law in those days meant step-son. Children
>named in the will. The will was also proved in the Perogative Court of
>Canterbury, England since he owned land there.
>1. Mary Wynne b abt 1651 Charles City Co., VA md John Woodlief III
>2. Thomas Wynne b 1657 Charles City Co., VA. (He was 50 in 1707) He md
>Agnes Stith abt 1678 and died 21 May 1718 Surry Co., VA where he left his
>will.
>3. Robert Wynne b abt 1659 Charles City Co., VA d bef 1675 Jordan's Parish,
>Charles Co., VA
>4. Joshua Wynne b 1662 or 1663 (He was age 27 in 1689) md Mary Jones abt
>1687 d bef 30 Mar 1715 probably in Dinwiddie Co., VA.
>
>Peter Wynne was Chr in Canterbury, Kent, Eng 25 Nov 1593. He md Martha
>Coppin 12 Aug 1620 St. Martin's Canterbury, Kent, Eng. He is son of Robert
>Wynne & Frances Wattmer. Martha Coppin Chr 1 Jun 1595 Deal Parish, Kent,
>England. d/o William Coppin & Sarah Jenkins. Peter Wynne bur 30 May 1638
>St. George's, Canterbury, Kent, Eng. Peter wrote his will 21 May 1638 and
>proved 31 May 1638 (Archdeaconry Court of Canterbury) He named wife Martha,
>son Robert, sister Anne, wife of Roger Pey of London, Christopher, son of
>Paul May of Canterbury, Elizabeth May d/o Paul May.
> So, it looks like the Peter Wynne who was in the Jamestown records, is not
>related to our Wynne family.
>
>Dorothy
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		06/11/1997 11:24:33
Helene: Long ShotsHelene:

Three "Newsgroup" places listed below where I have posted and gotten
responses. Won't cost you anything to post so its everything to win, nothing
to lose. I still monitor all 3 and it only takes a five minute scan a day
for all three.

1) alt.genealogy .....this one is unmonitored and wild and wooly as one
might
expect but quite likely to get you some kind
of response,
occasionally a goofy one. Fifty or so posts
per day.

2) soc.genealogy(surnames) .....this one is persnickity about making you
post in their protocol and if you don't do it just right their computer will
wire you back instructions, you will re-submit and that can go on a while.
They accept only 3 pieces of "title" information separated by semi-colons:
Name (caps preferred), place, time......for example, POCKRUS, David;
Fairfield Co., Va.; ca 1775. They WILL accept: POCKRUS; anywhere;
anytime.....which is what I did with Poythress after several frustrating
rejections. Once you get your "title" accepted you can phrase your query in
the body of the message pretty much any way you wish.

This group is VERY likely to get you a response if there is a response out
there. The serious genealogy folks monitor it because the strict listing
protocol tends to attract only serious queries and the format makes it super
easy to scan 3 or 4 days worth of posts in only a minute or so. The newsgroup
gets 35 or 40 posts per day.

3) soc.genealogy.uk+ireland (unread) ..............going overseas is a shot
in the dark but this newsgroup gets an enormous audience, easily twice the
other two combined. Chances are Pockrus came from somewhere in the
UK....perhaps even Scotland as you suspect. If you go to this list suggest
you tweak your terminology just a bit: Scottish whisky (only) is Scotch,
people are Scots...doesn't bother me but it puts off the Scots.

Some attention getting "devices" :

* capitalize the name and put it first.

* don't post "only" with the name....post the name AND day or so later post
it
"FAIRFIELD COUNY, SC and day or so later use yet another new "header".

* whatever you put as first word in post, capitalize it. Most viewers are
"scanners" and caps is what their eye scans for.

Helene, I figured these three Newsgroups were worth a two or three week
investment of time to scan each day and I was either right or just got lucky
as I had two or three
responses from each, all serious.

My guess is Pockrus is going to be tougher than Poythress because Poythress
has "the Pocohontas thing" going for it.....but its little or no effort to
"post". And if the well is still dry after 2 or 3 weeks you may want to
consider just dropping it as I have a hunch its the same people auditing the
same lists over and over again.

Hope this helps.

Maynard		06/12/1997 8:12:58
Temporary DelayTIMSHi Folks,

Work is eating all my time this week. I promise I'll get my backlog of web
postings up tomorrow evening or Saturday. I'm checking my messages, but
can't devote much attention just now.

Two items:
1.
I'd be interested to know if any of you have the POYTHRESS spelling of the
surname showing in actual documents prior to the 1703 date I mentioned a
few days ago.

2.
Related to item 1 above, it would be great to complete the 17th Century
Records web page listings. When time permits, please take a moment to
review what we have and send me/us a post with any additional document
references related to the Poythress surname dated prior to 1700. Do try to
include the full citation to the document source. I know there are some
Charles City records missing and probably some additional land patents and
grants.		06/12/1997 9:27:05
Re: Helene: Long ShotsMarion & Helene PockrusMaynard: What a tremendous ly good idea. Being new to the web, I haven't
found the 14000 areas to research. Also haven't given up. You've made
some great suggestions and I will do that this week. Being on the web has
been exciting though this month. I have found people working on several
of my old lines, back in the 1700s. We are trying to straignten out one
line that has been worked over for years and everyone is stuck in the same
place. So we are doing it over again in the troubled spots. This is
exciting! I'll let you know if it pays off!
Helene

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Helene: Long Shots
> Date: Thursday, June 12, 1997 8:12 PM
>
> Helene:
>
> Three "Newsgroup" places listed below where I have posted and gotten
> responses. Won't cost you anything to post so its everything to win,
nothing
> to lose. I still monitor all 3 and it only takes a five minute scan a
day
> for all three.
>
> 1) alt.genealogy .....this one is unmonitored and wild and wooly as
one
> might
> expect but quite likely to get you some
kind
> of response,
> occasionally a goofy one. Fifty or so
posts
> per day.
>
> 2) soc.genealogy(surnames) .....this one is persnickity about making you
> post in their protocol and if you don't do it just right their computer
will
> wire you back instructions, you will re-submit and that can go on a
while.
> They accept only 3 pieces of "title" information separated by
semi-colons:
> Name (caps preferred), place, time......for example, POCKRUS, David;
> Fairfield Co., Va.; ca 1775. They WILL accept: POCKRUS; anywhere;
> anytime.....which is what I did with Poythress after several frustrating
> rejections. Once you get your "title" accepted you can phrase your query
in
> the body of the message pretty much any way you wish.
>
> This group is VERY likely to get you a response if there is a response
out
> there. The serious genealogy folks monitor it because the strict listing
> protocol tends to attract only serious queries and the format makes it
super
> easy to scan 3 or 4 days worth of posts in only a minute or so. The
newsgroup
> gets 35 or 40 posts per day.
>
> 3) soc.genealogy.uk+ireland (unread) ..............going overseas is a
shot
> in the dark but this newsgroup gets an enormous audience, easily twice
the
> other two combined. Chances are Pockrus came from somewhere in the
> UK....perhaps even Scotland as you suspect. If you go to this list
suggest
> you tweak your terminology just a bit: Scottish whisky (only) is Scotch,
> people are Scots...doesn't bother me but it puts off the Scots.
>
> Some attention getting "devices" :
>
> * capitalize the name and put it first.
>
> * don't post "only" with the name....post the name AND day or so later
post
> it
> "FAIRFIELD COUNY, SC and day or so later use yet another new "header".
>
> * whatever you put as first word in post, capitalize it. Most viewers
are
> "scanners" and caps is what their eye scans for.
>
> Helene, I figured these three Newsgroups were worth a two or three week
> investment of time to scan each day and I was either right or just got
lucky
> as I had two or three
> responses from each, all serious.
>
> My guess is Pockrus is going to be tougher than Poythress because
Poythress
> has "the Pocohontas thing" going for it.....but its little or no effort
to
> "post". And if the well is still dry after 2 or 3 weeks you may want to
> consider just dropping it as I have a hunch its the same people auditing
the
> same lists over and over again.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Maynard		06/12/1997 10:03:47
Good Wives, Nasty Wenches and Anxious PatriarchsJean SpilleDear Poythress List

I have been quiet lately. Just trying to absorb the fruits of my
recent research trip to Northampton, North Carolina. I did unearth
some specifics which I will pass on at a later date, but mostly I
discovered how little I know about the history of that area _
Southside Virginia and Northeastern North Carolina. So I am trying
to educate myself. I am passing on the following book review I picked
up off of the Melungeon List that I monitor. This is one I will add
to my "must read" list.

Subject:
[1 Melungeo] REVIEW: Coryell on Brown, _Good Wives, Nasty
Wenches & Anxious
Patriarchs_
Date:
Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:27:28 -0400
From:
Darlene Wilson
To:
Melungeo@direct-pest.com

>H-NET BOOK REVIEW
>Published by H-OIEAHC@h-net.msu.edu (February, 1997)
>
>Kathleen M. Brown. _Good Wives, Nasty Wenches and Anxious
>Patriarchs: Gender, Race, and Power in Colonial Virginia_. Chapel
>Hill: University of North Carolina Press for the Institute of Early
>American History and Culture, 1996. xvi + 496 pp. Illustrations,
>tables, notes, bibliography, and index. $49.95 (cloth), ISBN
>0-8078-2307-4; $19.95 (paper), ISBN 0-8078-4623-6.
>
>Reviewed for H-OIEAHC by Janet L. Coryell, Western Michigan
>University
>
>Years ago, when Joan Scott pointed out the utility of gender as a
>mode of historical analysis, she most likely had in mind mainly the
>possibilities of inclusivity. She did not envision the wonderful
>work that has been produced here by Kathleen Brown, assistant
>professor of history at the University of Pennsylvania. Brown's
>brilliant work on race, gender and power in colonial Virginia is far
>more than inclusive. In a comprehensive, thoughtful, enlightening
>work, Brown has made gender and race the central modes of analysis
>in an attempt to understand the societal, political, and legal
>institutions of colonial Virginia.
>
>Drawing on every conceivable source on colonial Virginia, from tax
>rolls, deeds, county court records, government documents, narrative
>histories of the colony by its early occupants, court minutes,
>newspapers, statutes, and wills and inventories, and possessing a
>firm command of the secondary literature on virtually every aspect
>of colonial Virginia and Chesapeake history from the most
>traditional to the most current and pathbreaking, Brown has woven a
>marvelous synthesis of those sources that convincingly explains the
>way in which the social categories of race and gender were
>continually redefined by Virginians so that they might better
>support the patriarchy of elite Virginia society that existed by the
>Revolution.
>
>Gender as a social category to delineate women's and men's proper
>roles had a long tradition in Europe which transferred only in part
>to the New World, where high death rates and close proximity to
>Native Americans provided men and women with glimpses of and
>opportunities to pursue different living patterns. Having carefully
>defined her terms in the introduction, in the first section of her
>work Brown looks at the degree to which ideas about gender
>transferred to America. The degree of transference was crucial,
>since the ideas of patriarchy, subordination, and dominance were the
>lynchpins upon which societal structure, hierarchy, and political
>authority rested and by which they were justified. As England moved
>to conquer new lands, a gendered discourse based on domestic
>submission and male ownership of property provided conquerors with
>both a rationale for conquering and recognition of their duties of
>ownership and management.
>
>Early encounters with Indians on the American frontier disrupted the
>definitions of gender, however, and the English were forced to
>further refine what was essential about masculinity and femininity
>in order to maintain their own sense of superiority. As Native
>Americans were pushed farther west, English colonists turned inward
>and struggled to redefine gender roles in a society where labor was
>so crucial to survival that English traditions of male/female roles
>could not be sustained. They did this in part by defining as "good
>wives" those women who more closely resembled the goodwife of
>English tradition (married and employed in primarily domestic labor)
>and defining those women who were unmarried, lacking domestic
>skills, poor, and often indentured servants as "nasty wenches."
>Having established a gendered identity, colonists then turned to
>engendering racial differences.
>
>In part two of her work, Brown argues that race is in part a social
>construct, and that the construct here was used to further define
>English identity in the New World. As the tobacco economy of
>colonial Virginia redefined the role of goodwife prior to 1670, a
>further refinement of identity for white Virginians of their place
>in the patriarchy came through tax laws that differentiated between
>black and white women, hereditary slavery based on the mother's race
>and status (rather than the traditional English view) and legal
>definitions of a "Christian." Bacon's Rebellion provided an
>opportunity for the men of Virginia to redefine masculinity in a
>more usable form, as it led to a political makeover in the colony,
>when white men aspiring to higher status achieved their goal of
>attaining similar privileges to those of the gentry patriarchs.
>That redefinition restricted women's lives further for, as Brown
>points out, "In a political game in which planters often found it
>necessary to position themselves as feminine supplicants to imperial
>authority, it was perhaps comforting to reassert, frequently and
>publicly, their social identities as men and their separateness from
>women" (p. 186). Additional restrictions on women took the form of
>legislation against interracial unions and redefinitions of
>mixed-race individuals as non-white, and therefore automatically
>lesser than free white men. Race and gender, not class, were
>Virginia's "mainspring of social control" (p. 219).
>
>In Part Three, "Class and Power in the Eighteenth Century," Brown
>carries her analysis forward to the Revolutionary era. She examines
>marriage, hospitality, architecture, gossip, changing sex ratios,
>and domestic battles between husbands and wives to trace the
>formation of class, the solidification of power in the hands of
>patriarchs, and the constant vigilance exercised by the patriarchy
>to maintain control over rebellious servants, slaves, wives, and
>children. The driving impetus here was a desire by white male
>Virginians to formulate an identity with which they could be
>comfortable and one that hearkened to English tradition. But the
>demands placed upon this process by the differences inherent in the
>new land and its multi-racial population meant that English
>definitions were never going to be enough. Race and gender
>definitions differed from those of England's. In the end, goodwives
>were white, nasty wenches were black, and anxious patriarchs were
>everywhere.
>
>The only possible caveat to the reader here is that Brown does not
>particularly examine the intellectual underpinnings of the formation
>of notions about gender or race. But that is a truly minor quibble,
>and no one should be expected to do everything. This is a wonderful
>work, and casts a new and very bright light on the complex process
>of identity formation as well as on the formation of class and
>racialized slavery in the colony of Virginia.
>
>
> Copyright (c) 1997 by H-Net, all rights reserved. This work may
> be copied for non-profit educational use if proper credit is
> given to the author and the list. For other permission, please
> contact H-Net@h-net.msu.edu.
>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Darlene Wilson
University of Kentucky
e-mail < dgwils0@pop.uky.edu >
Telephone: (540) 328-5643
WebSites:
http://www.uky.edu/Projects/Appal/
http://www.clinch.edu/appalachia/melungeon/
Mail: PO Box 1391, Wise, VA 24293
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^		06/12/1997 10:11:36
Special RequestTIMSPoythress List,

I don't make a habit of asking for special attention to topics, but I'd be
very grateful if all of us would give the following request for assistance
serious attention.

I've asked Helene Pockrus to prepare something that I could post to the
query page at our web site. I hope this will help keep the query
information easily referenced. I know that several of you have posted
information and ideas to earlier posts from Helene. I hope we'll be able
to dig a little deeper. Helene really needs a break and I am confident
that we have enough talent, experience and access to reference materials to
help.

Many Thanks,

Al Tims

DAVID POCKRUS
By Helene Pockrus

The Pockruses that I find around him I really have no proof of their
parentage. I can document the family coming down the line and their
children and one grandson changed his name and his children's to Parcus.
The name has been spelled 29 different
spellings as of our last count. In SC in 1810 it was POERAS. In 1800 it
was Pockras. With the old script it is sometimes listed as Parkins.
Parkes, Pokeras, Purkis, Parkis, Parkus, Parkas, Perkis, Perkus, Pirkes,
Percus, Parkhouse, Parkhaus, Poykres. Anything you can come close to.
The name is supposed to be Scotch, or Scotch Irish, Can't find it in
Gazateers of either country. The only Pockrus names on the AF or the IGI
are what we turned in. On books on immigration from Scotland, there was
one book that showed a POK---. I am in hopes that the internet will afford
a search. We have researched in Madison and Jackson Counties in AL, as the
part of Al he was in became part of Jackson. We found that the families of
Boggs and Waldrops and Cochranes traveled together for over 150 years. We
have followed them from early SC to AL to AR then LA. It took us 32 years
to find grandpa Pockrus who was supposed to have been murdered in 1895. I
haven't got another 10 to find David .

This sounds vague I guess but I have been told that his name may be
Poythres. I need all the help I can get to find him. Appreciate any help.

David Pockrus was born abt 1775 of Fairfield Co., SC or VA.

died before 1850,in Madison Co., AL
Married abt 1800
Wife :Mary Madeline
born abt 1774 in SC/GA
died AL

Daughter Susan born abt 1809, SC married Thomas Hardy
Son John T.born abt 1810 sc died in Bossier Parish , LA in 1850 he was in
Talladega Co., AL. He is said to be born in both NC and SC in censuses.
son David born abt 1818 ,Alabama died before 1870 in Al-wife Sarah Susan
Acklin goes with her sons to Texas
??son Caleb 1828 Madison Co., AL-married Lydia Tipton-appeares he changes
his name to Caleb Murray and goes to LA with his own family.
??Oliver born 1829 (disappears)-marries Mary Ann Elenor Young in 1848

!1800 Census: Listed in Fairfield Co. S.Car. page 206 col 00100 film 181422
(Pockras). One Male 16/26, 3 females under 10, 1 female 16/26, 1 female
45/over.

!1810 Census: Listed in Fairfield Co. S.Car, page 202 film 181421 (Pocras).
One
male 26/45, 3 females under 10, 2 females 10/16, 1 female 26/45.

!1818 Land Records: David Pockrus bought land in Madison Co. Ala (see
below).

!1830 Census: 117 3rd 4 T Madison County, Alabama.

!1840 Census: 185 South Half Madison County, Alambama (2 listing for
David
Pockrus).One was his son David

!Following are Madison Co. Deed Books transactions for David Pockrus:
!#976.197/R2j A through E for 1810 to 1819 Territorial Item 1, Jan 10, 1818
(Item 304-305) Jacob and Catherine Derrick sold to David Pockrus for $450 a
parcel of land described: Ind. 100 ac. in section 15, 22, & 23 of TWP 3,
Range
2E on Hurricane Creek and next to John Fowler and the land on which said
Derrick now lives. Proven 4-2-1819, DR on 4-7-1819, recorded 5-15-1819.
(NOTE:
This land is near Maysville, Madison Co., AL.

!FHL #976.197/R2c Old Land Records of Madison County Alabama, described as
TWP 3S, Range 2E Huntsville Meridian, page 215, Southwest Fraction of
Section
15, 81.00 acres, 10-2-1830. Number of certificate or warrant 3355. Section
15
83.5 West of Old Cherokee Boundry, 525.35 East of Old Cherokee Boundry and
exclusive of Wilsons Reservation {for which see section 10}.

Land: Jacob Derrick To deed David Pockrus. "This indenter made this 10th
day of January, one thousand eight hundred and eighteen between Jacob
Derrick
of the county of Madison in the Mississippi Territory of the one part and
David Pockrus of said county and territory of the other part, Witnesseth:
That
the said Jacob Derrick for and in consideration of the sum of four hundred
and
fifty dollars to him in hand paid the receipt whereof is hereby
acknowledged hath this day bargained, sold aliened enfeoffed and conveyed
and by these
presents doth bargain sell alien enfeoff and convey unto the said David
Pockrus a certain tract or parcel of land lying and being in the county of
Madison
aforesaid being a part of fractional sections fifteen twenty two and twenty
three of township three in range two east, of the basis meridian line
containing one hundred acres more or less, beginning on an ach at a branch
corner to John Fowlers, thence with said line to the Hericane creek thence
up the creek with its meanders to the Indian line, thence north fifty eight
west poles fifty six with said Indian line to a Buckeye Jacobs Derricks
corner,
thence south forty eight west one hundred poles to a stake corner to the
land said Derrick lives on, thence to the beginning be the same more or
less.
to have and to hold the before described tract of land with the tenements
and
appurtenances thereunto belonging or in any wise appertaining unto the said
David Pockrus his heirs and assigns forever and the said Jacob Derric doth
warrant and will forever defend the title to said land and bargained
Premises unto the said David Pockrus his heirs and assigns, from and
against him and
all and every person or persons claiming or holding under him the said
Jacob
Derrick and also dagainst the lawful title claim or demand of all and every
person or perddsons whomsoever claiming or holding by from or under the
Government of the United States.
In Testimony whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal the day and year
above written.
Signed sealed and delivered in the - - - - - - - - - Jacob X Derrick seal
presence of
John Sprowl - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Catherine X Derrick seal
Thomas Stapler
Henry Armbrester
LemL Mead - - - - - - Alabama Territory Madison County.
This day personally appeared before me, Francis E. Harris clerk of the
Superior court of said county the within named Jacob Derrick who
acknowledged that
he signed sealed and delivered the within and foregoing deed on the day and
year therein mentioned to the aforesaid and within named David Pockrus.
Given under my hand and seal this 2nd day of April, 1819.
- - - - - - - - - -Fra. E. Harris - - - seal
Alabama Territory
Madison county.
- - - - -This day Personally appeared before me, Francis E. Harris clerk of
the superior court of Madison county, the within named Catherine Derrick
who
acknowledged on a private examination separate and apart from her husband
that she signed sealed and delivered the within and foregoing deed on the
day
and year therein named to the aforesaid and within named David Packrus as
her
voluntary act and deed freely without any fear threats or compulsion from
her husband, Jacob Derrick. Given under my hand and seal this 2nd day of
April, 1819.
- - - - - - - - - -Fra. E. Harris - - - seal
The foregoing deed was delivered into this office for registration on the
7th day of April 1819 and is duly recorded this 15th day of May, 1819.
- - - - -HY Minor clk.

!Death: Based on fact that his wife Mary M. was living in household of
daughter Susan Pockrus Hardy in 1850 Census.

!History: History of Hurricane Creek (publisher unknown) "Beautiful
Hurricane Valley lies 8.5 miles northeast of Huntsville, Alabama. It is
blessed with
rich farm land, pastures, lakes and streams and mountains filled with wild
life and game. Hurricane Valley got it's name from the frequent violent
storms that swept
through the valley. In the 1800's the settlers called all tornadoes and
violent storms hurricanes, and the valley was plagued with these storms.
Homes and churches were destroyed and lives were taken.
The following history will take you back in time to yester-year,
approximately 200 years ago, and will bring you up to modern day times.
Records will
tell the history of the land the old timers will tell you of their fondest
memories. Hurricane Valley was once the home of the Cherokee Indians.
Before the
early 1800's there is no indication of indian villages, yet it was a place
of
resort for great hunting parties who came here in summer and autumn and as
winter
approached, returned to the neighborhood of Guntersville or of Tuscambia,
laden with game. The Cherokee claimed the limit of their hunting grounds
passed
through the County and as they had no settlements nearer than those on the
Tennessee River, the Hurrican Valley region had no tradition of any
conflict between hostile tribes. The immense cane brakes in the river
bottoms, the
heavy forest, the rough mountains inhabitated by the wolves, bears, and
panthers and large venemous snakes were not a suitable permanent abode for
the red man.
As settlers started coming into Alabama, a large number of Scotch emigrants
came to the state on account of religious persecution and political
dissension in the old country. Many men of this colony became Indian
Traders and
married Indian wives. Some became very influential men in their councils.
Among
these were the Wilson's and Mc Nutty's. Conalesky, an Indian Chief, when
he
became civilized, called himself John Challenge. The Challenge Reservation
in
Sharp's Cove was named after him and he lived on it for a long time.
When the Creek War of 1812 broke out, the Creek tried very hard to persuade
the Cherokee to join in a coalition against the white men. This was found
to
cause great confusion existing as to the attitude of the Indians. The
Cherokee
were too well acquainted with the power of the white men and when they
found the
Creeks would not allow them to remain neutral, they declared war against
the Creeks and took part in Jackson's Campaign. As troops and emigrants
poured
into the territory, longing eyes were cast in the direction of the rich
Indian lands lying all around the country. It was only by the exercise of
close
military supervision that intruders were kept out of the Indian Territory.
At one raid, the troops were said to have burned 40 to 50 houses and
destroyed
crops of parties who continued to take the risk and settle on the wrong
side of the Indian Lines.
In 1817 Andrew Jackson made a treaty with the Cherokee that completed the
succession of their territory north of the Tennessee to the United States.
Alabama had become a state. On the New Purchase, many Indians elected to
stay in the County while the majority of the Cherokee Indians went west.
This
great movement became part of what is known as "The Trail of Tears". By a
treaty
signed in 1818 that made the succession of the lands, now called New
Madison, each Indian or Half-Breed who wished to remain within the limits
of the
ceded territory was allowed to retain one section of land, one mile in
diameter,
with a house as near the center of the tract as practicable. The indians
who
stayed agreed by treaty to stay on the reservations.
There were four reservations in Madison County, three of these in Hurricane
Valley. The three in Hurrican Valley were the Wilson, Mc Nutty and
Challenge. The Wilson and Mc Nutty were on Hurricane Creek and Challenge in
Sharp's
Cove.
As the years went by, the Indians gradually became dissatisfied. All of
them on the reservations disposed of their lands by sale or relinquishment
to
the government and in 1836, joined their tribes in Arkansas and Oklahoma.
One Hundred Fifteen years later, arrowheads were being found where the
great Cherokee warrior had been hunting for food.
Great grand parents and grand parents passed down exciting and spellbinding
tales of the mighty indians and told with facinating wonder of their burial
grounds. The Cherokee Indians will always be a very important part of the
history of Hurrican Valley.
In Hurricane Valley, once around a network of Indian Reservations and
extending up the Valley as far as the soil was tillable, was congregated
several
colonies of adventurous settlers who laid the foundation for our heritage.
The
long and narrow valley, including the covers formed by the mountain ridges,
included as fertile a land as can be found in Northern Alabama. These
lands were taken up in small tracts by a large body of settlers, some
generations
of whom still occupy these lands."
This is where David Pockrus settled in 1818.		06/12/1997 12:27:03
LVA PatentsTIMSPoythress List,

If you're a VA-Roots subscriber you'll have seen this post -- so just hit
delete now.

For the rest (majority), I think you'll be interested in the following
improvement in the LVA image resource.

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 16:16:49 EDT
From: Elizabeth Roderick
Subject: Land Patents and Grants Index

Greetings - to accompany the existing Electronic Card index by
surname to the newly available online images of the LVA's Land
Office Patents and Grants collection, we have mounted a
chronological/numerical index with links to the images of the
documents.

So, if you prefer to bypass the surname index and go directly
to a particular document, this should provide that capability.

Do let me know (privately!!) if you encounter any problems
using this!

We are missing some images and are rescanning them soon. If
you encounter any bad links do let me know (privately).

We won't be announcing this publicly (although announcing it to
3,700 people is somewhat public) until I get any feedback you
would like to provide.

Thank you!

Elizabeth		06/12/1997 12:45:33
Poythress/PenistonTara Peniston/Dick Bedwell:

Thought you had heard the last of me, didn't you? 😉

I am looking at a document out of my Jack Benny genealogical "vault" entitled
Torrence Family Papers. It is MSS/T6355d from Virginia Historical Society if
you want to order a copy. It runs 29 pages but the most interesting part for
you (if of interest at all) is the top page which is a 22" x 17" chart.

VHS gets about two bits a page to copy for you in the library (they won't let
you make your own copies since its all orginal documents)....but if you have
the MSS number and number of pages thereby demonstrating that you half way
know what you are talking about and won't send them on a wild goose chase,
they have been known to take a phone order and charge it to one's MC/VISA.

This chart I have shows descendency thru 11 generations to a Sallie Aley
(Mrs. Alvin T. Hurt) starting from Francis Poythress, Virginia 1633, ("the"
immigrant for we Poythresses). Except for one or two instances the chart does
not waltz off into the branches but just takes it straight-line down to
generation # 11 where it identifies Sallie Aley and 5 of her siblings plus a
sketchy 12th generation listing a few of the children of Miss Aley's
siblings. Two of the pages are a 1922 letter from a Nellie P. Dunn to Mr.
Torrence asking Mr. Torrence if he would be willing to "look over these
papers". Given that background I would have two observations and neither are
particularly optomistic:

1. First, my guess would be Mrs. (Aley) Hunt has something to prove....like
perhaps a DAR or Colonial Dames or maybe even FFV application....and I'm
always a bit cautious with people on a genealogical mission...but she may
have it chiseled in stone for all I know.

2. Second, assuming it is Mrs. Aley-Hunt's chart, I don't think we know how
much Mr. Torrence approved or disapproved. The gist of it is that Mr.
Torrence is (was?) an authority to some degree in this matter.

With the above two disclaimers, its not that much copy so I'll just run it
out for you by generations: [square parens are mine]

1. Francis Poythress m. Mary_________
2. Major Francis Poythress m. Rebecca_________[we think Coggin now].
3. John Poythress m. Mary Batte
4. Col. Wm. Poythress (1695-1768) m. Sarah Eppes
5. William Poythress b. March 1727
6. William Poythress, Lt. 1st Va. Artillery(served 1777-1783) b. 1737(?) d.
1783; m.
Elizabeth_________.
7. Elizabeth Poythress (1765-1818)m. 1783 Anthony Peniston (1764-1797)
7. Also Generation #7 and left no heirs, which we know: Francis Poythress.
The
notes say: " died a bachelor. M. E. Minister in NC, VA, & KY(see
Sprague's
Annals of American Pulpit, Vol. 7, page 164"
7. _______....the other sister is presumably not pertinent to Miss Aley's
line she is
building and is omitted for that reason [my speculation].
8. Francis Poythress Peniston [picking up the line with Elizabeth above] b.
1794 m.
1815 Hannah Satterwhite Morris [Morris?, can't read her writing]
1796-1824.
9. Anne Peniston (1823-1900) m. 1837 James Madison Beatley (1813-1865)
10. Susan Louise Beatley (1838-1925) m. 1858 Calvin R. Aley
11. Sallie Aley (Mrs. Alvin T. Hunt)1785 Mass. Ave., Washington, DC, Vice
Chair,
Republican Natl. Committee.
11. Leonora m. Wm. S. Bogy
11. Ruby m. J. H. Durham
12. Richard
12. Mary Louisa
12. Joseph
11. Charles Richard
11. John
11. Theodore
12. Marguerite
12 Helen Gladys

I realize once one of these "lines" gets off into the 11th and 12th
generation they are likely to not ring many bells but I hope the earlier
information will be useful to at least one of you if not both.

For my crowd, the implication is that if Sallie Aley is correct we have now
found the line to Francis Poythress the Methodist Episcopal minister and his
two sisters.

Let me know if this does anything for you, would you please. And if you can
add in any factual material with respect to the line "proven" down to
Francis/Elizabeth would you please tell me.

Thanks.

Maynard Poythress
(VKRatliff@aol.com)		06/13/1997 3:08:42
Richard Lee m. Sally PoythressThe below worked up for Earl Hines of Mableton, Georgia and submitted to the
group just in case any one is interested in the reference:

June 13, 1997

Earl:

Yes, genealogists have documented the marriage of Richard �Squire�Lee
(1726-1795) to Sally Poythress (1768-1828).

This relationship probably deserves mention not so much to demonstrate the
remote Poythress link to the Lees (there is also a common link to the Blands)
as to demonstrate that General Lee later needed to be the saintly soul that
he was, if for no other reason than to atone for the actions of some of his
kinfolk, Squire Richard Lee in particular.

Sally Bland Poythress was the daughter of Peter Poythress (of Branchester to
distinguish him from Peter Poythress of Flowerdew Hundred). Peter Poythress
(1715-1785) of Branchester m. ca 1756 Elizabeth Bland (1733-1792), daughter
of Richard and Anne (Poythress) Bland of �Jordan�s�, Prince George County.
See �Chart of Poythress Family in Virginia, Section A. She and her sisters
were known as �the eight Misses Poythress�.

Sally Bland Poythress m. (1) at Branchester, Richard Lee of Westmoreland
County, son
of Henry and Mary Bland Lee of that County. Four Lee children were born of
this marriage. In 1796, Sally m. (2) in Westmoreland County Willoughby
Newton, son of John and Elizabeth (Vaulx) Newton of that county. There were
five children by this marriage. �Squire� Richard Lee is buried at �Burnt
House Field� in Westmoreland. Sally Bland (Poythress-Lee) Newton was buried
at �Lee Hall� in that county.

Richard �Squire� Lee inherited Lee Hall from his father Henry Lee (1691-1747)
m. Mary
Bland (1704-1764). The Squire was in many instances described by his friends
and kinsmen in most uncomplimentary terms. A cousin, Grace Lee, stated that
should he ever marry �if his wife civilizes him, she deserves to be
canonized�.

In 1743, with Lee well past forty, a close friend sent a confidential report
to his cousins:
�He looks fresh and hearty; and is, I am afraid, as lewdly indulgent as ever,
from the appearance of his waiting maids, Bab and Henny�.

At the close of the revolution the squire found a wife, making a match no
family member might have foreseen. Beyond sixty, Richard brought as a bride
to Lee Hall a sixteen-year-old first cousin known for her beauty. Her name
was Sally Poythress. She was a grand-daughter and he a grandson of Richard
Bland. Before the Squire died in 1795, just short of seventy, he had
fathered four lawful children.

Sources: R. Bolling Batte, Chart of Virginia Poythress Family in Virginia
(unpublished),
Paul C. Nagel, The Lees of Virginia, Seven Generations of an
American Family,
Oxford University Press, 1990		06/13/1997 3:13:10
Historical Footnote on Francis PoythressNorthumberland County in Virginia was called "Chicacone" until around 1645.
The Act of 1649 called for all south of the Potomac to be considered within
the county of Northumberland. After 1 September 1649 the inhabitants could
move to the north side of the Charles (York) River and Rapp River. This was
because the whites had fled due to the Indian massacre in 1644. The
Northumberland patents began in 1648 with Captain Francis Poythress
collecting the assessments.

Early Settlers of Alabama by Col. James Edmonds Saunders, page 339
Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, 1969		06/14/1997 1:00:19
New Information & UpdatesTIMSPoythress List,

We've added to our web pages:

1. A will transcription for Thomas Pewtresse of Tillers Green, 3 Feb 1592
(Transcribed by Pat Crewe).

2. A description re Ploddy House and Emlets, NEWENT 11 Apr. 1649

3. Helene Pockrus' query with supporting documentation concerning DAVID
POCKRUS
(See queries and research notes page).

4. Research notes on Sally Poythress & Richard "Squire" Lee by Earl Hines
of Mableton, Georgia (queries and research notes page).

5. A link to the "dogpile" multi-engine search page Maynard Poythress
recommended.

6. A note re Northumberland patents -- began in 1648 with Captain Francis
Poythress collecting the assessments (17th Century page). Submitted by
Barbara Poythress Wolfe.

Misc.:

1. Sure would like to have some additional 17th Century reference notes
:-)!

2. Brief bios. We collected bio statements from folks a couple of months
back -- before we made the move to RootsWeb and before we had a web page.
Time to either repost these or to do something different.

I'd like your thoughts on a bio web page for our subscribers. If there
seems to be interest, what I can do is set up a demo page (not link to the
main web page) for us to review. I'll just send a note with the url. It
is nice to know who is on the list and the sorts of interests folks have.

Cheers,

Al Tims		06/15/1997 1:08:04
Write a caption for this image 🙂TIMSHi Folks,

This is just for fun. The image on the following page needs a caption!
No, I don't believe this is a Poythress steering from the rear, but it
"might be" from an allied family member :-)! Image is from Mississippi --
date unknown.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/fun.html

Again, this is just play. Remember though, Einstein called play the
highest form of research.

Cheers,

Al Tims		06/15/1997 11:31:26
Re: Write a caption for this image 🙂Okay you cut-ups in the back of the classroom, that's enough levity for the
day!
My next e-mail in line will put you back to constructive endeavors....or
drive you nuts, take your pick!

Maynard

06/16/1997 4:56:27
Early GA PoythressesFolks, I think this Mrs. Dixon in Charlotte is going to "bundle" most of
those late
1700's, early 1800's folks up for us. I haven't gotten her on the phone yet
but I think we may learn even more as we get into it. Plus, I think we can
do her some real good and that always makes it satisfying.

Mrs. Dixon has it "charted" which I can't put on e-mail but I think its
simple enough to lay out as a narrative for the moment. Bud and Barbara, I'm
going to say you two busted this nail right on the head with your
speculations which, to me at any rate,
just lay dead parallel to Mrs. Dixon's information.

See what you care to add to below: [square parenthesises are my comments]

Thomas of Dinwiddie was actually Thomas James Poythress m. ca.1758 (VA)
Martha(Patsey)_________. Thomas born VA ca1740 Dinwiddie, d. 1796 Burke
County, Ga. [we know him as just Burke Co. sherriff "Thomas" but no argument
here to be made; Mrs. Dixon's contention is that he came to GA with his
children (except Lewis), we wouldn't have any argument with a birth date of
ca 1740 because we speculated ca 1735 ourselves...and we didn't even know any
of the children except Meredith, Sr.]

Thomas James Poythress' children:

1) Meredith Sr. (b. 1760 Meck. Co., d. ca 1839 GA) m. Edith Cleaton. [Mrs.
Dixon has Meredith marrying 2. Susan R. Maner but my guess is she will give
way fairly easy to our Meredith Sr. m. Edith Cleaton and Meredith JR m. 1.
Hester Wilder and 2. Susan R. Maner]. There is just too much supporting
documentation.
Children of Meredith, Sr. & Edith Cleaton [ Mrs. Dixon has Edith b.
1763, d. ca
1785; if so Meredith Sr.'s last two children would have to be by a
different wife...
that may indeed be so but I'm inclined to doubt it.]

1) Peter b. VA 1784 d.SC after 1806....[that death date is why he
doesn't show
up in brother Cleton's will of 1827, we never had the death date]

2) Cleaton (spelled Cleton in his will) b. 1785 VA d. GA 1827.

3) Meredith, Jr. b.1790 VA d. GA ca 1850)

4) Elizabeth b. 1792 m. Brannen

2) Lewis Poythress b. 1771 VA- ? VA. m. 26 Dec 1793 Patsey Giles.

3) George Poythress b. 1765 VA, d. 1829 FL m. ca 1795 in Burke Co., Harriet
Carter
b. ca 1777, d. 24 Dec. 1818 Savannah. Child of this marriage John Carter
P.,
1796-1862 GA Burke Co. George was Militia Major

George P. m. 2 Mary Turner Lawson, one child: Mary Elizabeth.

4) Thomas James, Jr. b.ca 1767 VA d. before 1803 or moved away.

5) Edward Poythress b ca 1769 VA - (?), "may have moved to Elbert City and
then
to Alabama". [BPN: you got any extras over there you can't account for?]

6) Martha Elizabeth Amanda Poythress, b. 26 Jan 1786 d. 5 Oct. 1861 Burke Co.
m. (1)1804 John Dixon, Waynesboro, GA [Waynesboro is between Augusta and
Screven Co....a very plausible place]
Children: Robert John Dixon
Thomas James Dixon
Harriet Dixon
William Dixon
m. (2) Laban Odum 1816 Waynesboro, GA.
Children: Beverly Randal Odum
Jane Elizabeth Odum
James Poythress Odum
Laban Odum, Jr.

Thomas James Poythress also brought to GA a brother:

William Poythress b. 1745 VA, d. after 1827 Burke County m. (?) (note: in the
1827 Land Lottery of Georgia both William and Meredith described themselves
as revolutionary soldiers. [I guess I'd be inclined to ask for proof of Rev.
War service....to have been a veteran got one an "extra" draw in the lottery
and as sloppily run as those things were , and 40 years after the war, there
was an abnormally high percentage of "veterans" who registered for that
lottery].

William was corporal Burke County Miltia 1790 [ this is very plausible but
perhaps is an indication that he is not the William of our picture who was
full fledged Va. Continental Line Lt. and later Capt.....but then again,
William would have been 55 yrs.old in 1790 and maybe willing to simply accept
a relatively minor/inactive role].

William's child of first marriage:

James Poythress b. ca 1791 GA/d. after 1830 Census of Screven Co.
m. ca 1811 ?
Children: daughter
daughter
daughter
James Poythress bought land from Theophilus Thomas 1814. Sold land to
Nicholas Berry 1826, all in Screven County.

William m. (2) Mrs. Tabetha (?) Stewart, a widow with several children.
William sold their lottery grant land Grants in Baldwin City, Georgia in
1811.

Brothers Thomas James Poythress and William Poythress ALSO brought with them
from Virginia a cousin or nephew, Francis Poythress. "In Georgia, know
virtually nothing about him or his family" [it may be worth speculating that
he is the Francis in Greene County, GA records].

Note at bottom of page:

"The late Mrs. Frank Grass of Oklahoma City, OK and the late Mrs. Dorothy
Poythress of Georgia both stated there is a record (?) showing that
Corp.(Militia)
William, Mjr. George Poythress were cousins and came to Georgia from
Dinwiddie
County, VA. Therefore, their fathers must have been brothers". [I agree]

MP: I located Mr. Grass toward the end of Mrs. Grass' life. We talked about
her
"extensive papers". My daughter was on temporary duty in Oklahoma City at
the time. When I called back to put together the logistics for my daughter
to haul it all to Kinko's and copy it, I talked to a truly nasty lady whom I
speculate was a live-in nurse, presumably with enough authority to say:
"don't call back, those old papers weren't nothing so I burned them all". I
then wrote to Mr. Grass who did not answer.
I called back at several intervals to speak to Mr. Grass and always got the
nurse. This was over a period of about 6 months. It is my speculation that
Mr. Grass is likely now also dead as he was quite elderly at the time and
that was several years ago.

As for Mrs. Dorothy Poythress....she was my mother and I have found nothing
of the
"paper" described but will look again. I do know that she really, really
wished for Meredith to have been a revolutionary soldier. Since her own
family had a few, I will speculate that she just wanted my father to have a
revolutionary soldier too; I would
not be inclined to cite this record as documentation.

Following is the text of the Poythress part of a letter from Mrs. Dixon to
Earl Hines:

"The attached sheets on our Poythress family are accurate as far as I have
been able to discover and I believe they will answer most of your questions
about them.
1. John Carter Poythress, only grandchild and heir of avowed Tory, Alexander
Carter, was born to Mr. Carter's only child, Harriet "Hetty" and her husband,
GA militia major
George Poythress in 1796. Their only child was named John Carter Poythress.
John Carter P. had a physical handicap that was resolved by surgery in
Philadelphia or New York. He grew to manhood in Waynesboro and took his
place as a leader of that town and district. No doubt he was well educated
if he wished to be. He married a Miss Morris of Savannah. [perhaps why his
mother would have died in Savannah 1818]. She had a brother, William St.
Claire Morris, who was somewhat of a fop, catered to and tolerated because of
his family connections. In 1861, John Carter P. raised and outfitted a
company called Poythress Volunteers, Co. E, Cobb's
Legion with W. S. C. Morris as Captain. Shortly after the first clash of
arms, Capt.
W. St.C. Morris resigned, saying he had brought the company to Viriginia and
now would depend on them to acquit themselves with bravery and valor. After
the war, he was the general pet of the summer colony at Bath. [Bath where?]		06/16/1997 4:56:31
Re: Write a caption for this image 🙂Al -

How about: "Three of a kind, with a twist!"

My mother always said the Poythresses were "stubborn as Missouri mules!"

Take care......

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com - June 16th, 1997)		06/16/1997 5:02:49
Re: Agnes Poythress of Prince George Co.Craig R. ScottI don't but I have forwarded you message to the Poythress List to see if
someone else can help.

Craig

Does anyone have anything on this one?

At 04:06 PM 6/15/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello Friend,
>I see in an index of Virginia Marriages by Dorothy Ford Wulfeck that
>Roger Atkinson Jr. married Agnes Poythress 20 Sept. 1788. I am looking
>for my Gr. GrGrandfather Henry Atkinson born in VA about 1820. Any
>chance Roger and Agnes are his parents? My ancestors were Scots-Irish.
>Henry Atkinson's father probably born in Ireland. Henry was born in VA,
>son George born 1855 possibly Frostburg, MD. I am also wondering about
>the Atkinson's at "Mansfield" VA, in Dinwiddie Co. I believe they are
>Scots-Irish. I may have seen a Rachel Poythress married to an Atkinson
>also. If you have any helpful information, kindly e-mail me. Thanks
>Marilyn
>
>
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		06/16/1997 6:18:29
Re: Write a caption for this image:-TIMSHi Folks,

Bud and Elizabeth Keeler made my day! Caption submissions so far are at
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/fun.html

My favorite is #9 on the list.

No we're not going to turn our back on serious genealogy -- just taking a
small break to be silly.

#9 "Now do you see why I tucked mine between my legs?"		06/16/1997 6:21:42
Re: Write a caption for this image 🙂"A Mississippi Convertible on the Way to Oxford!" 🙂

Great image...it really peaks one's curiosity. That guy in the back has one
big set of arms. You and Maynard really know how to ham it up!

Barbara and Bill

06/16/1997 9:40:51
Re: Write a caption for this image:-Al -- Some other suggestions..........

A few suggested from Elizabeth Keeler (Merle's care-giver helper):

"Tell me again, did Ma say that the two-legged asses were on her side
family or on Pa's side of the family?"

"Ma said there would be tail's (tales) like this."

"Your cousin or mine?"

"Whose Tail is it anyway?"

"And they call us asses?"

"Did you tell him - It's Attached?"

"The other two-legged idiot told him it would bring him good luck,
just like a rabbit's foot."

"Did you say he followed you home?"

"Now do you see why I tucked mine between my legs?"

A good assortment here Al, take your pick........!

Happy day.....

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.com - June 16, 1997)		06/16/1997 12:42:42
Early GA PoythressBud.....durn you...you about drove me crazy for a few minutes trying to
figure out that "two Elizabeths" deal. There WERE two Elizabeths but they
were not sisters, they were aunt and neice. (what did I tell you about
staying away from that cooking sherry?)

Martha Elizabeth Amanda P. (from whom Mrs. Dixon decends) married John Dixon,
1804 in Waynesboro). MEAP was daughter of THOMAS while Elizabeth who married
Brannen was MEREDITH SR.'S daughter. Since Meredith, Sr. was brother of
MEAP, then MEAP was aunt of Elizabeth Brannen.

Let me see if I can ever get this lady to answer her phone and I'll size it
up. If we can romance Mrs. Dixon into it, you think your sister would do one
for her kind, handsome, loving, generous brother?.....like slip over to
Charlotte and waltz down to nearest Kinko's with Mrs. Dixon ?

I'll be back to you right away.

Maynard		06/17/1997 1:49:48
Re: Early GA Poythresses - Wow!Maynard -

This info from Mrs Dixon in Charlotte is fantastic man. Crosses a lot
ot "T's" and dots a lot of "I's" and give us a whole bunch of new cousins to
check out and add to the list!.

But it seems odd Thomas & Martha would have two daughters named
"Elizabeth", doesn't it[?] (namely: 4) Elizabeth P Brannen & 6) Martha
Elizabeth Amanda P).

By the way, what is Mrs Dixon's address and phone number if you have it,
in Charlotte? My sister Martha Bridges is here now from King's Mountain
which is about 25 mi west of Charlotte, and she'll call her when she returns
home Wednesday. Martha says the name "Dixon" is very common in that part of
NC and there a about a hundred of them listed in the local/Charlotte phone
book. And where of who is her connection or "claim to fame" -- Is she a
decendant through a connection to the listed William Poythress (Thomas'
brother) and his 1st wife?

If so, then she maybe connected also to the Carl C. Poythress of
Savannah, originally of Screven County, GA (Newington), that I've written to
(no response yet though).

Randy Jones,

And Randy, this William may be the connection to the "William E.
Poythress" you asked about, however it appears he would more likely be his
grandfather. An interesting possiblilty just the same.

Keep up the good work Maynard, you've outdone yourself! Looking
forward to the next chapter.

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.net - June 17th, 1997)		06/17/1997 8:47:37
Early GA PoythressesAOL cut off my message in midstream and since it was going to a "list" AOL
couldn't make an "attachment" out of it. It is below, picking up where the
first one left off and if AOL doesn't take all of this I'll send out a part
3. This one should close with my
name.

Then, we have: Hetty, wife of George Poythress. Dec. 24, 1817 is carved
into a small gravemarker in the typhus section of Colonial Cemetery in
Savannah. Young John Carter Poythress was twenty two years old when his
mother died.. Had the family gone to Savannah for his holiday marriage to
Miss Morris? Were the couple already married and residents of the city? A
Poythress house is featured among the historical homes and has a plaque.
[news to me, I'll make some inquiries] Was this the home of the John Carter
Poythresses? I don't know. I just know that Hetty died there and George
would not have been allowed to take her body back to Waynesboro because of
the fear of contagion. Thus, she was not buried in the Carter or Poythress
cemetery lots. If George Poythress and his second wife, Mary Turner
Lawson/Poythress are buried in a Waynesboro Cemetery, they do not have
gravemarkers. His LWT [last will and testament I suppose] is in , I believe
Leon County [wasn't it Jackson?] Florida. As I am sure you see, the family
of Mjr. George Poythress's sister, our Martha Elizabeth Amanda Poythress
Dixon/Odum does not have a drop of Carter blood. Never the less, the family
of Dr. Elijah Carter
seems to have harbored anger and resentment against anyone connected in any
way
to the Poythress family and its connections." [wonder what all that was
about?]

Letter continues (single spaced) for about another page and a half on the
Dixon
decendents of Martha Elizabeth Amanda P. m. John Dixon. [I'm skipping this,
I don't see any relevent points for Poythresses]

[picking back up on Poythresses, Mrs. Dixon relates finding Elizabeth
(Poythress) Odum's grave listed in "Grave Markers in Burke County, Georgia"
(d. 1861) and goes on to say]: "I was last in that cemetery two years ago and
it is virtually abandoned. This falls into place when we learn that Thomas
James Poythress was her father and sherriff of Burke County in 1786. The
Tabb and Poythress families are said to have come from Dinwiddie County, VA.
Well, the lower part of Dinwiddie became the northern part of Bertie County,
NC in the newly drawn line between Virginia and North Carolina after the
Revolution. I can find no Dixons or Poythresses in Dinwiddie that I can
identify as ours - none at all [Mrs. Dixon will likely do a little dance when
she gets that Thomas line with the Dinwiddie references that Earl copied and
is mailling to her]. But, the oldest house in Mecklenburg County just south
of Dinwiddie was built by a William Tabb. A Tabb was clerk of probate on the
estate of William Cleaton/Clayton whose daughter, Edith, married our Meredith
Poythress, as per chart.

To make a very very long story short and get this into today's mail: I
believe our Poythresses came from the part of old Dinwiddie County that
became Mecklenburg
and the part of old Dinwiddie County cut off into North Carolina that became
Bertie County. From here on in, that is where I will be spending my time
searching. You and Curtis and I seem the ones descending from our William
Dixon to be interested in an ongoing investigation. I will share what I find
with you and Curtis and would welcome your doing the same for me.

Best regards,

Mrs. Bernard W. Dixon
signed: Martha M. Dixon

[ Well, all the above should keep us busy a while. I will continue to try
and phone Mrs. Dixon and will relate what else I can learn. I hope that she
will be pleased to see the Dinwiddie County birth we show for Thomas and can
figure out why the rest of the references are in Brunswick County. Since
Brunswick was carved out of Prince George and they are all right in there
together, maybe Thomas wound up in Brunswick instead of Dinwiddie and Mrs
Dixon just hasn't been looking in Brunswick.
Or, in a worst case, we could be talking about two different Thomases but I
would find that hard to believe---there just ain't going to be two Thomases
both with sons named Meredith.

[I think the only way to rebuild this structure is to load it into ReUnion
just as I did
Thomas in the first place and do it as a trial covering just the Georgia
stuff and see if it all fits together. For that process, I will appreciate
the speculations of any of you.]

I will make it a point to thank Mrs. Dixon as graciously as I can...she has
indeed uncovered a gold mine for us.....I can only hope we can do some of the
same for her.

Maynard		06/17/1997 10:07:10
John Rolph and John PowntesseTIMSPoythress List,

Below is an abstract of a historically important document from 1620. If we
consider the recent legislation regarding tobacco in England, this document
takes on added historical interest. I post it because of the clear
reference to John Rolfe (hubby of Pocahontas) and one John Powntesse.
Given the surname spellings we are seeing in England during this time
frame, I think we would be neglegent if we failed to take note of this
reference.

Perhaps Pat and Maurice Crewe can provide some insight on this as a
possible Poythress surname spelling.

Enjoy,

Al Tims
----------------------------------------

Depository Public Records Office Class PRO 30/15/2
Title: Manchester Papers
Dates: 1616-1647 and N.D.

Reference: Eighth Report of the Royal Commission on Historical
Manuscripts. Appendix Part II. 30a-50a.
Examined: 14-15 August, 1957 and 25 Oct - 18 Nov. 1957
SURVEY REPORT No. 1106 page 20

290 21 January 1620. James City. Sir George Yeardley to the Council of
the Virginia Company; the colony's petition to the King about the tobacco.
(Title from endorsement). It is in fact a copy of the petition, with a
covering note preceding it from Sir George Yeardley, George Thorpe, Thomas
Nuce, Nathaniel Powle, Samuel Maycock, John Porye, John Rolph and John
Powntesse, mentioning that "the life of the Plantacion dependeth upon the
wellfare of it [the petition]". It was prompted by the recent
proclamation against the importation of tobacco into England, and hence it
was entitled 'The humble Peticion of the distressed Collonye in Virginea".
It refers to ''the Sinister practize of principall persons of our Companie
at home" who were out for their own profit only. If the King disregarded
the petition he would lose not only many loyal emigrant subjects but also
"a Territorie as large and as opulent to bee made, as anie of those
Kingdomes you now possesses". 4pp., with pp.2 and 3 blank. Address and
endorsement on p.4. (Eighth Report, 37a-37b)		06/17/1997 11:29:54
Re: Early GA PoythressesTIMSMaynard & Poythress List,

This new information is fantastic! It raises lots of questions for me.

Let me start with a simple one:

I have William Poythress m. Ann Bently, 10 Nov. 1802, Thomas Rogers, sec.
in Mecklenburg County, VA. Does this add anything to the story?

Best,

Al Tims		06/17/1997 11:33:50
Mrs. DixonTo all....and Bud in particular...

Initial conversation with Mrs. Dixon something of a temporary disappointment.
Has no interest in PCs so it will have to all be correspondence....and there
doesn't look like there will be a whole lot of that.

I'm sending her a pile of material plus copies of the index and all the
"chapter headings" on the page to see if I can motivate her to find a friend
on-line and I hope get hooked. But she didn't sound all that fired up.

She reports:

* what she had sent to Earl Hines that he copied for me and I copied for the
list was
"all she had".....but she thinks she may have some papers from a few years
ago and will look diligently.

* now wonders if Meredith, Sr. might not have been a brother of the Thomas
James P. in question....because she is sure that there are two consecutive
Thomases in there and maybe we are correct to have Thomas in Brunswick and
never leaving VA. [If she has correct birth dates for Meredith, Sr. (ca 1760)
and presumed sister Martha Elizabeth Amanda P. (ca 1786), there is certainly
some logic to that. I'm going to go to work tomorrow and string out a time
line to see what probabilities the dates may offer us, may take a few days].

* hangs to her story that Meredith, Sr. m. 1. Edith Cleaton and 2. Susan
Maner....I think we know for certain that she is wrong but we can let her
discover that for herself in the fullness of time; I did not project any
profit in an argument on first call.

* says that she strongly believes Edith Cleaton never left Virginia and her
death might have been a catalyst for Meredith, Sr. to look for a new start in
Georgia. I'm inclined to believe her for no reason other than a hunch I have
had all along but certainly will figure on getting something concrete before
making this assertion.

* says that Martha Elizabeth Amanda P. came with the family to GA as an
infant....
looking at that birth date of 26 Jan 1786 makes that all fit together because
I believe we are going to have the dates eventually tell us the "family" trip
was made in 1786.

* says she is delighted to know others are interested in that Poythress line
in Georgia besides her (a good sign I guess) and that no, she had never tried
to do anything with the VA crowd because it just looked like it could never
be sorted out.
I'll send her the Batte chart to go with the Batte text up on the page.

* this lady has poked about in Screven County history a bit and suggested
that if I had not already done so (I hadn't) that I read the Maner chapter in
"History of Screven County". The original Mr. Maner came from SC and was
one of the wealthiest men in GA. Suggests that in part at least that's where
John Maner P. got farm land from his mother Susan R. Maner/Poythress which
was in turn left to his wife Rhoda Gross and then to his son Horace Cullen P.
(my grandfather). In the depression of the turn of the century there is no
telling how much land Horace Cullen P. mortgaged and was never able to
redeem. Those mortgages put together are likely a half a roll of microfilm
in the GDAH. Unfortunately, they ain't all on one roll, they are spread over
25 or so rolls.

Although initially a bit disappointing I'm hoping to entice Mrs. Dixon back
into the genealogy biz. If we don't get anything else ever she has certainly
done us a service. We are given a framework to work with that is both
logical and has some substance....and the questions surrounding Mrs. Dixon's
scenario are probably less troubling than the questions that we had to begin
with.

I'll keep working on it.

Maynard		06/18/1997 9:51:48
relay from fidonetJulian P. BellHi, friends. Thought I'd see if anyone might be able to help
this person. I wonder if the name is a variant. I know about
migration to Georgia, but... Australia?

**************************************************

Message # 44521 Area : 13 Genealogy
From : Sanford Hunt 06-17-97 16:36
To : All
Subj : HUNT/Pewtress/Australia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone has a HUNT/PEWTRESS connection or knows anything
about this circa 1800 family please let me know. Date:
Tuesday, 17-Jun-97 04:57 PM

From: Merle Ida King \ Internet:
(m_iking@telusplanet.net) To: hunt-l@rootsweb.com
(Unlisted Name) \ Internet: (hunt-l@rootsweb.com) To:
roots-l@rootsweb.com (Unlisted Name) \ Internet: (roots-
l@rootsweb.com)

Subject: missing Hunt family members

Hi all

I am at present updating the PEWTRESS family tree and I need help locating
the missing HUNT family members. this is my first branch on
this tree so I hope I will have some success here. thanks
IAK

John Altee Hunt b Mar 2 1796? m Eliza Pewtress b. Apr 20,
1805 in St Pancras ?, on Nov 20 1826 at ? ch were:

John Altee b Aug 24, 1827 m Rhoda SQUIRE, had 2 sons & 1 daughter

Sarah Ann b. Mar 10 1829 m Stephen Pewtress her cousin

Ebenezer b Jun 1, 1830 in Harmondsworth ?, m Feb 24, 1860 in Coburg Vict

to Mary McMICHAEL d. 1912 Australia

5 sons 4 daughters

Samuel Bagster b May 12, 1832 m Dec 22 1859 in Richmond
Australia to Janet Elizabeth GOLDIE 2 sons & 3 daug

Harvey b Sep 20 1834 ? m Dec 29 1858 Adelaide to Mary FLETT
d. Dec 2 1863 in Adelaide no ch:

Elizabeth (Lilly) b Dec 4 1842 ? unm.

Frederick Altee b Jan 31 1848 in Newington m Jun 21 1883 in
Woodstock Ill to Katherine FULLER 2 sons & 2 daug

Emily Christina b Apr 3 1850 ? m Nov 13 1876 m Walter DAVY

Thank you.
Sanford B. Hunt Lubbock TEXAS
sbh3@juno.com, pgss23a@prodigy.com

--- InterEcho 1.18
* Origin: Genealogy eXchange, Lubbock, TX, 806-797-9059 (1:3804/70)

******************************************************************************
Julian P. Bell, Jr jpbell@vgernet.net		06/19/1997 3:18:56
Re: PewtresseAlbert R. TimsMaynard & List,
>
Re:
> Discount me up front as a hard case with respect to variants but I'm
having
> some difficulty with this Pewtresse. My reasoning is a look at the IGI
list
> for Gloucestershire and Herefordshire. Wall to wall with very logical
> variants: Poytheres, Poytherus, Poytheras, Poythriss, Poytress. If
there is
> a single thread of phonetic consistency it is the "Poy" sound (and even
the
> "Poy" spelling) followed by the "th".

Consider The Following From Pat Crewe:
"On the question of whether the Pewtris/Pewteras surname from Dymock is a
variation of Poythress, I think I may have confirmed this. In the will of
Johane Pewteras of Dymock dated 1582, she mentions the 8 sheep that Richard
Pewteras of Fownhope has from her. Looking in the Herefordshire IGIs I see
there is a Richard Poytheres who married an Anna Skynner in 1572 in
Fownhope with Fawleye and I would think he is most likely the one mentioned
in her will. The spelling being now much closer to Poythress."

The difference between Pew and Poy may not have been as great as we might
imagine today. It seems to me that the typical American (especially a
Southerner) would likely spell the name Portress or Portriss upon hearing.
I have no clear sense of how it might have been spelled upon hearing in
Bristol or London 350 years ago.

Al Tims (even today, Tims gets spelled as Times, Thimes, Tymes,Timme,
Timms, Thames, Timmes)		06/19/1997 5:57:20
POWNTESSEPat & Maurice CreweJust catching up on the e-mail after being away for a few days.
We really don't know whether Powntesse is a variant of Poythress or not,
but it is not far removed from Poydresse which is on the land document of
1647.
Interesting that the document signed by John Powntesse is to do with the
importation of tobacco into England. The area around Cheltenham in
Gloucestershire was used for tobacco crops from about 1610 to 1670, even
though it's cultivation was proclaimed illegal in 1619. From Gwen Hart's
book "A History of Cheltenham" she says it "was cultivated in
Gloucestershire on a scale large enough to threaten the prosperity of
Virginian growers". The authorities tried hard to stop the crop being
grown but "riots followed every attempt at destruction". In 1652 an Act
was passed prohibiting the cultivation of English tobacco, but there was
a petition sent from Cheltenham against this, and they were allowed to
keep their crops for that year. They kept on planting and "in the last mo
nths of Cromwell's life a troop of horse.....marched out of Gloucester to
destroy the tobacco about Winchcombe and Cheltenham. 'The County did rise
on them - about 500 or 600 - threatening to kill them, horse and men, so
that they were constrained to depart'" So tobacco has always caused
problems - then and now.
Sorry to go on so long - I just enjoy social history.
Al, you mentioned a bio-web page. I certainly don't mind anybody in the
group seeing our details but does this mean that anybody at all could
read them - I'm not too sure about this.
Regards,
Pat		06/19/1997 9:18:58
PewtresseJulian:

Discount me up front as a hard case with respect to variants but I'm having
some difficulty with this Pewtresse. My reasoning is a look at the IGI list
for Gloucestershire and Herefordshire. Wall to wall with very logical
variants: Poytheres, Poytherus, Poytheras, Poythriss, Poytress. If there is
a single thread of phonetic consistency it is the "Poy" sound (and even the
"Poy" spelling) followed by the "th".

To be sure, it only takes one guy or gal striking off for some corner of the
world with a variant spelling to start a whole tribe of the new variant.
However, based on how close those folks in south central Eng. were getting
the "phonetic" transferred to paper, I just can't embrace Pewtresse with much
enthusiasm. In fact, I think we only came up with Pewtresse in the process
of flailing about looking for a career-related surname match and not with a
likely suspect actually using the name.

I realize of course that if the matter runs true to course....this very
e-mail will bring a half dozen people out of the woodwork to prove me dead
wrong....so maybe I can help in the sense of "reverse English" (no pun
intended).

Best,

Maynard

06/19/1997 10:10:38
Re: Poythress Inquiry (John M. Poythress)Lyn Poythress Baird:

Lyn....GREAT to hear from you! I think we are likely to keep you busy a
while. I'm posting your e-mail below for the group of us crazy Poythress
chasers.

The Poythress Website address is: http://www1.minn.net/~atims/ This
will have a Thomas Poythress (trial) line that goes thru Meredith (from whom
I am a direct descendent). We are now hot on the trail of new information
that suggests that Lewis was indeed the brother of Meredith. I will also
send you in a separate message (it may be multiple parts because Juno won't
take attachments...I'll just split it into however messages it takes to send
it all) material recently received from a Mrs. Martha Dixon of Charlotte
which suggests that Thomas (James) Poythress did indeed bring a crowd of his
children to Georgia, leaving only Lewis behind in VA.

Also on the Website are the instructions to join the Poythress discussion
group. Lyn, I hope you will just jump right in because we are right in the
middle of the very questions you raise.

Some of the players are: Al Tims is our list-meister and tag-team match
referee,
Bud Poythress and I descend from Thomas through Meredith. If Meredith and
Lewis are indeed brothers we are now "officially" cousins to two Lewis
descendents on the list who are Barbara Poythress Neal and Barbara Poythress
Wolfe.

One of our big questions is getting Thomas linked back to that Prince George
crowd and we have found Mr. Bolling Batte's trial chart helpful in getting
some of the early Poythresses sorted out. The text of this chart is on the
page but I have the schematic which will make it 10 times easier to
understand. I'll be happy to mail you a copy if you'll send me your snail
mail address.

And....ta da!...if thats not enough....list member Helene will greet you with
great joy because she has been chasing Pockrus as a Poythress variant.

So, why don't you take a look at the material on the webpage, join the list,
put up your questions in detail and you'll have a half dozen or so folks who
have been at this varying years all take a whack at it.

Again, welcome to the group. We are delighted to have your query and
sincerely hope you will join us as I'm confident that we have much to offer
to each other.

Warmest personal regards,

Maynard Poythress
(VKRatliff@aol.com)

Message from Lyn:

Subj: Poythress Inquiry (John M. Poythress)
Date: 97-06-20 00:17:40 EDT
From: llbaird@juno.com (Lyn P Baird)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com

Dear Mr. Poythress,

This is in response to your inquiry at www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb/ under
Brunswick County for persons sharing interest in researching the
Poythress family. My interest is from two directions.

First, I am a third-great-grandson of Lewis Poythress of neighboring
Mecklenburg County, whom I guess to have been born 1760-1770, married
Rebecca B. Taylor 1802, and died after 1845. I have only circumstantial
evidence to suggest that Lewis is the brother of Meredith Poythress, Sr.
and therefore the son of Thomas Poythress of Brunswick County. Any
information leading to establishing the ancestry of Lewis would be
appreciated. I am a native of Brunswick County and am aware of many of
the descendants of Lewis through his son Thomas M., also of Mecklenburg
County and also my ancestor. Many of the descendants of Thomas M.
remained in the area until recent times and some still remain there.

Second, my wife is a third-great-granddaughter of John F. Pockrus of
northwest Louisiana. My brief exploration of the present distribution of
the Pockrus surname suggests it may possibly be a variation of the
surname Poythress that occurred during southwest migrations through
Georgia and Alabama. Any information on this would be appreciated.

Regarding both Poythress and Pockrus, my research is active but very
limited at this time, however, correspondence and exchange of information
on either and both would be welcomed.

Sincerely,
Lyn Poythress Baird		06/19/1997 10:57:28
RED ALERT !See message posted from Lyn Poythress Baird !!!!

06/19/1997 10:57:36
Earliest Known Virginia Reference to Francis PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the earliest known (to me at least) reference to Francis Poythress
in Virginia. (I'll be adding this and several additional 17th Century
Records to the web page today.) I checked my Cavaliers & Pioneers Vol. 1
and find no entries for either of the two persons mentioned. Will check my
list of ancient planters and the Jamestown census from the 1620s.

Perhaps one of our legal and/or genealogical authorities could offer some
insight as to the what this letter of administration might have been. Was
he seeking to secure the estates, or was he serving as an administrator for
purposes of settling the estates? Perhaps such a letter would have other
purposes.

It would no doubt be of value to keep a watchful eye out for any
information that might provide clues as to the identities and/or points of
origin of the below named Thomas Hall and Robert Kidd. As I mentioned
above, this is the very first record we have of Francis and has special
significance as such. I do no know if the original document still exists
in any form, or if it might contain more detailed information about the
petition filed by ffrauncis Poythres.

Minutes of the Council and General Court at James Citty, 9th Feb 1632
Virginia Historical Magazine, Vol. 31, 1923, p. 295
 
Present: Sir John Harvey Knt Governor &c Capt ffrauncis West, Capt Samuell
Mathewe, Capt Wm Clayborne, Mr. Henry ffinch, Capt John Uty, Capt Richard
Stephens, Capt Hugh Bullocke, Capt Wm Peirce.
Uppon ffrauncis Poythres his peti'con there is graunted unto him a l're of
Administra'con uppon the estates of Thomas Hall & Robert Kidd deceased.

Cheers,

Al Tims		06/20/1997 5:45:50
Lewis Poythress & Brunswick Co, VACharles NealLyn Poythress Baird (with copy to the Poythress List),

I am Barbara Poythress Neal (or BPN) who was mentioned to you in Maynard's
response to you sometime in the last 24 hours or so. Though Maynard
assured you that Barbara Poythress Wolfe (or BPW) and I are "Lewis
descendants," I must admit to you that we still would like to find proof of
that connection; right now what we have is strong hypothesis.
I am hoping that you, being sure you are a descendant of Lewis, may have
more information about his family than BPW and I have been able to compile.
(And I am of course hoping that some tidbit there will help us link more
conclusively to Lewis.) If so, then BPW & I have extensive info about
other descendants. We are both eager and willing to share with you what we
have.

You mentioned Lewis' marriage to Rebecca B. Taylor in 1802, of which we
were aware: 9 April 1802, I believe in Mecklenburg Co. This was, I
believe, Lewis' second marriage, with his first marriage having been to
Elizabeth Giles on about 26 Dec 1792, also in Mecklenburg Co. Does that
agree with info you have?

I am hoping you can clarify for us a full listing of Lewis' children. I do
not think we have all of them, but what we have is:
By Elizabeth Giles:
(1) David, born 26 Jan 1800 in Mecklenburg Co, VA. He later married Sally
Dortch and Mary Speed Dortch.
By Rebecca B. Taylor:
(1) Rebecca L., (have no date of birth) who married Benjamin Standley 22
Jan 1832 in Mecklenburg Co, VA
(2) James (we have no middle name to be sure of here, and no solid date of
birth)
(3) Lewis Y. (again no date of birth) who married Mary C. Ferguson 20 July
1846
(4) Thomas M. (again no date of birth)

BPW is definitely descended from David, and has much documentation about
David's descendants, including some Bible records.

I am descended from James Edward Poythress (hopefully the James listed
above as son by Rebecca Taylor), who was born 13 Aug 1803 in Mecklenburg
Co, VA per his family's Bible-format record. I have LOTS of info about him
and his wife, Catherine Preston, (daughter of Joshua Preston of Brunswick
Co) whom he married on 6 Feb 1828 (bond was 29 Jan 1828 in Brunswick Co),
and about his 8 children. James & Catherine moved in 1853 to Sumter
County, Alabama, along with all 8 children and reportedly with his nephew
James Speed Poythress, who was apparently a son of David (listed above as a
son of Lewis by Elizabeth Giles). I have LOTS of info about James Speed
Poythress also and his descendants, some of whom are also subscribers of
this Poythress List.

I do hope to hear more from you soon, on what you know of Lewis' immediate
family. I would be glad to trade snail-mail addresses with you, and swap
info with you that way, too.
So glad that you wrote to Maynard, and that he posted your message so that
I could see it! Looking forward to hearing more!

Barbara (6/20/97 9pm, here in California)
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/20/1997 10:05:17
Re: Project Registry?Albert R. TimsMaynard,

No we aren't listed, but I'm not convinced that the price of admission is
justified. See below:

You may have unlimited use of the Kindred Konnections Internet Research
Library for a nominal subscription fee of (US) $15.00 monthly or (US)
$100.00 for a year's subscription. This fee is used for covering the costs
of maintaining the database and expanding our services.
THE LINEAGE-LINKED DATA IS FREE.

The library allows you to search a lineage-linked database of over 10
million names. We will be adding other genealogical resources to the
library as well as expanding the current linage-linked database.

Best,

Al

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Project Registry?
> Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 11:09 AM
>
> Al Tims et al:
>
> Hey, Al, check the menu screen at National Genealogical Society
> (http://www.genealogy.org/~NGS/)
>
> Last bullet at the bottom of the menu is provision for "Online Registry
of
> Genealogical Projects" a database that was previously run by the Saints
and
> apparently is now run by a crowd called Kindred Konnections, Inc. It
sounds
> like a big deal. Its free....or sounds like it.
>
> I went first to Project Search Query.....and couldn't get in because I
didn't
> have a user ID or a project #....of course.
>
> Next screen is "New Project Creation" whereby one registers his or her or
a
> group's project.....well, okay....but what is the point in registering if
the
> outside world can only reach you with and ID # and a Project # that only
you
> know?
>
> In the proper query sequence for males, I then returned to the bullet
page to
> read the instructions (in this case, reading "announcement" first). I
still
> didn't "get it".
>
> My sense is that registering is something we ought to do and since you
are
> the nominal list-meister it strikes me that you should be the "name"
person
> for this registry...if indeed it is something you think that we need to
do.
>
> You want to check that when you have a chance?....and of course do or
don't
> do whatever you think best. Many thanks.
>
> Also on that menu is the most awesome surname search engine I have seen.
I
> gave it Frances P. (it won't take less than a surname and a first name)
and
> there were 20
> hits...unfortunately, for Frances at any rate, it was mostly the same
junk we
> see on that Gedcom format that hangs out there in cyberspace.
>
> If the other info is as uniformly sloppy as that on Francis (and I
suspect it
> will be) then we may still milk some marginal use out of this engine: its
all
> of those postings in a single place instead of strung out all over the
net on
> the pages of hundreds of individuals. Its like the good news is there
are a
> million references in one place; the bad news is 98% of them are wrong or
> bytes we already have (mostly the latter to be properly charitable I
> suppose). I almost get the feeling that there is an opportunity hiding
in
> there that I'm missing. Somebody enlighten me please.
>
> Best to all....off to 'ol Virginy in AM...guess I can't sing the song
though.
> See y'all end of next week.
>
> Maynard
>		06/21/1997 1:47:16
Polly PoythressCraig R. ScottI have a letter in hand from a Mrs. Jane Andrews, 1916 Tabby Lane,
Altavista, VA 23417 that says:

I am trying to get information about Polly Poythress. She is listed in the
1850 and 1860 census of Prince George Co., Va., in the household of Thomas
T. and Lucy Lee Leonard. Polly's age was 72 in 1850 and 70 in 1860. She was
born in Va. The Leonards are the great great grandparents of my husband. I
would like to know how Polly fits in with the Leonards. Could this Polly be
the daughter of Robert Poythress.

Virginia Rev War Land Grant Claims, 1783 - 1850 Rejected mentions a Robert
Poythresses. Robert was a Captain in the Army from Prince George. Rebeckah
Mitchel, aged 72, of Prince George Co., Va. on 11 Dec 1834 states that
Captain Robert Poythress in 1776 enlisted two of her brothers, John Livesay
and ______ Livesay, Benjamin Tackett, John Temple, Thomas Harris, Burwell
Womack, James W. Caltern and Reuben Rives. Robert Poythress was from Prince
George and had only one son. Micajah Webb, aged 75, of Petersburg, Va. on 9
May 1835 states that he served in the war and that Captain Robert Poythress
died in 1781 near Charleston. William Weeks, aged 70, of Prince George on 3
Dec 1834 states the same. Polley Poythress of Prince George Co., Va. on 24
April 1835 states that she is the daughter of Robert Poythress, the reputed
son of Captain Poythress.

Anyone know about this Polly? I know that I have seen someone mention the
Leonard househould before. Let me know what to send this person.

The other Poythress with a rejected claim is Kirby.
William Oney in Southampton Co., Va. on 16 Sep 1839 states that he knew
Kirby Poythress of Southampton Co., Va. who died 25 or 30 years ago. He
enlised in Southampton under Captain James and Gray and he and William Oney
met up at Yorktown. At his death, Kirby Poythress had children viz Caty
Poythress, Avy Poythress, Sally Poythress, Peggy Poythress, and one son
named Gideon Poythress. Gideon Poythress died in Oct 1838 leaving children
viz Benjamin Poythress, Patsey (Martha) Poythress and Ann Poythress. Martha
Poythress is the wife of Benjamin Andrews, Ann Poythress is dead without
issue and Benjamin is now living.

[Does anyone know of this Benjamin?]

Craig

Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		06/21/1997 4:18:57
Re: Polly PoythressAlbert R. TimsCraig,

Thanks for sharing this information. VERY interesting! If you get a
chance, take a look at the images page on our Poythress web site.
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/images.html

You will find three clips from the Virginia Gazette related to one Robert
Poythress. Two of the clips concern Robert recruiting fellows for service.
Seems possible that this is the same person mentioned in the letter.
Will continue to root around for all I have on Robert, Polly, et. al.

Again Thanks,

Al Tims		06/21/1997 5:57:44
Re: Polly PoythressAh Ha....I knew I zapped some e-mail by mistake this afternoon....must have
been the one from Craig...would someone pls resend just to me.

Many thanks,

Maynard

06/21/1997 6:09:24
Project Registry?Al Tims et al:

Hey, Al, check the menu screen at National Genealogical Society
(http://www.genealogy.org/~NGS/)

Last bullet at the bottom of the menu is provision for "Online Registry of
Genealogical Projects" a database that was previously run by the Saints and
apparently is now run by a crowd called Kindred Konnections, Inc. It sounds
like a big deal. Its free....or sounds like it.

I went first to Project Search Query.....and couldn't get in because I didn't
have a user ID or a project #....of course.

Next screen is "New Project Creation" whereby one registers his or her or a
group's project.....well, okay....but what is the point in registering if the
outside world can only reach you with and ID # and a Project # that only you
know?

In the proper query sequence for males, I then returned to the bullet page to
read the instructions (in this case, reading "announcement" first). I still
didn't "get it".

My sense is that registering is something we ought to do and since you are
the nominal list-meister it strikes me that you should be the "name" person
for this registry...if indeed it is something you think that we need to do.

You want to check that when you have a chance?....and of course do or don't
do whatever you think best. Many thanks.

Also on that menu is the most awesome surname search engine I have seen. I
gave it Frances P. (it won't take less than a surname and a first name) and
there were 20
hits...unfortunately, for Frances at any rate, it was mostly the same junk we
see on that Gedcom format that hangs out there in cyberspace.

If the other info is as uniformly sloppy as that on Francis (and I suspect it
will be) then we may still milk some marginal use out of this engine: its all
of those postings in a single place instead of strung out all over the net on
the pages of hundreds of individuals. Its like the good news is there are a
million references in one place; the bad news is 98% of them are wrong or
bytes we already have (mostly the latter to be properly charitable I
suppose). I almost get the feeling that there is an opportunity hiding in
there that I'm missing. Somebody enlighten me please.

Best to all....off to 'ol Virginy in AM...guess I can't sing the song though.
See y'all end of next week.

Maynard		06/21/1997 10:09:55
Travelling Listers & down-Email @ AOLCharles NealMaynard, have a great trip to Virginia, and a greatly
genealogically-fruitful trip.

FYI folks, I called BPW at 9:15 Pacific time Friday night, right after
sending out my own response to Lyn Poythress Baird (with copy to List), in
my excitement to share with her his forwarded-by-Maynard note about Lewis
Poythress. BPW informed me that AOL's Email had been down since at least
first thing Friday morning, 6/20. She was excited to hear about Lyn's
message too, and was going to go try the computer one more time & draft a
message to all if the Email was up & running. Apparently it wasn't, since
her message hasn't surfaced by 10 am Pacific time Saturday.

She wanted me to pass on to folks, if she couldn't get on, that she & Bill
are leaving Sunday morning for 2 weeks of camping & houseboating with their
son Tom's family: going to camp in Zion & Bryce National Parks, and then
houseboat on Lake Mead. What a delightful trip, and great chance to enjoy
the grandkids!
She, of course in that environment, won't have access to Email at all for
the next 2 weeks. I don't know, Maynard, whether or not you will have
access during your VA trip. But at any rate: you folks should have a safe
& fun trip!

Ay!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/21/1997 11:10:59
Baird ResearcherAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

We've had a good bit of recent interest in the Baird surname -- for good
reason. Just received the following post from the VA-Roots list. I will
respond with a note and see if we make a Poythress connection.

Best,
Al Tims
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:56:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Johncbaird@aol.com
Subject: Baird's in Virginia

Searching for descendant of John Baird who lived at Jamestown, Va ca 1695
later lived at Chippokes Plantation, Prince George County. m. Margaret
Rookings. Had children: (1) Rook Baird born 1702 married Elizabeth Heath,
had
a son named Benjamin Baird. (2) Reuben Baird b. 1704 married Mary (Heath)
had
children Barbara Baird; Benjamin Baird and Rook Baird. (3) John Baird born
1705 married Mary ?. Lived in Sussex County. Had children named
Steven/Stephen Baird, William Baird and Howell Baird. (4) Ephraim Baird b.
ca
1707 m. Hannah Harrison. Lived at Martin;'s Brandon in Prince George
County.
Had children Thomas Baird, Benjamin Baird and John Baird. Any help on
these
names or on the name BATTE would be appreciated.		06/22/1997 2:29:31
James Speed Poythress -- Son of David PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Barbara Poythress Wolfe sent me the following note re James Speed
Poythress:

Al, I have connected with a Twisdale researcher on-line who is interested
in
learning about the Poythress family. David's son Charles David (my g
grandfather) married Indiana Peru Twisdale in 1870. And he sent me a copy
of
the Letters of Administration upon the estate of David which were applied
for
by Charles David. The exciting discovery was that in naming the heirs in
the
document, I see a James S. Poythress listed.

Barbara [Poythress Neal] and I speculate that James Speed Poythress is the
son of
David and this is the first time I have seen the "S" initial for this
particular James.
---------------\

Note that:
17 Dec 1827 Marriage Record of David Poythress and Mary Speed Dortch
Consent: Ann Dortch, mother ;Witnesses, Isaac Taylor and Elizabeth C.
Dortch. Mecklenburg Cty Marriages Bonds and Consent Papers 1825-1828 Reel
66, p. 698-700.

This is an exciting discovery for all of us with lines back to James Speed
Poythress.

Best,

Al Tims		06/22/1997 3:17:11
Jane PoythressRighton McCallumI should like some help finding information about Jane POYTHRESS who
married John BAIRD and had a daughter named Elizabeth Westmore who
married Thomas Christian GORDON. All lived before 1820. Thank
you. R. McCallum McCallum@netside.com		06/22/1997 8:05:06
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #19Dear Maynard Good Luck in Virginia and PLEASE

Keep your eyes open for Col. RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM (Am. Rev)(1752-1827) Isle
of Wight Va, Halifax, to middle Tennessee who
M. CHRISTINA KESIAH PORTIS/PORTHRESS
(1763-1841) M 1784,and THIER adopted sons
ROBERT PORTIS/PORTHRESS (Ransom) b. 1786
BENJAMIN C. PORTIS/PORTHRESS (Ransom) b. 1788
It would be quite a find to locate her parents and siblings.

Good luck, anyway...even if you find nothing on her.

Caroline Burnett Cook
(with Bollings and Poythresses somewhere up the line)		06/22/1997 8:38:30
Jane PoythressRighton McCallumAm looking for Jane Poythress (about 1800) who marrid John Baird and had
a dau.Elizabeth Westmore Baird who married Thomas Christian Gordon.
Anybody know this group? Thanks.		06/22/1997 9:09:57
Tabitha POYTHRESSJWinstonDear POYTHRESS List:

I continue my quest of my ancestor's line, Tabitha and her father Robert
POYTHRESS, Price George Co., Will dated 5/24/1743. In the "Pedigree of
Descendants of Henry Randolph I (1623-1673) of Henrico County, Virginia"
by Wassell Randolph, Distributed by Memphis Public Library, 1957, p.82,
there is a discussion of the question of Robert's wife. "4 Val. p.2305;
Davis p.174; Cary Chart. Rich. Times Dis. 8/23/1908 erroneously says he
m. Jane Poythress. In 1775 dower out of her deceased husband's estate
allotted her: Ches. O.B. 6, p.92, 4 Val. p.2309. After her husband's
death she executed two deeds: (a) 11/2/1771 conveying her dower in land
previously sold: Ches. D.B. 6, p.417, 3 Val. p.1323 and (b) as legatee
under her father's will conveying to Henry Archer her 1/5th interest in
certain slaves: Ches. D.B. 12, p.396, 3 Val. p.1328. In 1734 she sued
William Mayo, executer, to recover her share of certain negroes
belonging to her father's estate: Ches. O.B. 10, p. 363, 4 Val. p.2309.
her will dated 9/17/1803, prob. 4/8/1805 executors Mary and Henry
Archer, daughter and son-in-law: Ches. W.B. 6p.249, 3 Val. p.1320.
James Branch Cabell and others claim that the wife of Robert Poythress
was Elizabeth Bland, a descendant of William Randolph I of Turkey
Island; if true, all descendants of Henry Randolph IV through her would
belong in the Turkey Island Randolph line also. Although it is most
intriguing for such descendants to claim descent from a praepositus so
outstanding, Randolph C. Coleman does not think the marriage has been
sufficiently established to support conclusively the claim: 6/22 and
8/9/1942."

We already have Robert's and Tabitha's wills up on the page. I do not
have this book in my possession and it is out of print. I will make a
trip to the Louisville Public Library where there is a well worn copy.
I am interested in finding out the arguments that James B. Cabell and
others have made in support of the Elizabeth BLAND theory.

Hope this will help direct further hunting!

Elise Courtney H. Markham
wry@aye.net		06/22/1997 10:05:33
Re: Tabitha POYTHRESSAlbert R. TimsElise,

Excellent query. I will forward it to a Randolph researcher in Virginia
Beach -- not on our list for his read on the subject. In the meantime, can
we assume the book you mention is the one by Wassell Randolph?

Also, would you mind if I added this to the query page at our web site?

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: JWinston
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Tabitha POYTHRESS
> Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 11:05 AM
>
> Dear POYTHRESS List:
>
> I continue my quest of my ancestor's line, Tabitha and her father Robert
> POYTHRESS, Price George Co., Will dated 5/24/1743. In the "Pedigree of
> Descendants of Henry Randolph I (1623-1673) of Henrico County, Virginia"
> by Wassell Randolph, Distributed by Memphis Public Library, 1957, p.82,
> there is a discussion of the question of Robert's wife. "4 Val. p.2305;
> Davis p.174; Cary Chart. Rich. Times Dis. 8/23/1908 erroneously says he
> m. Jane Poythress. In 1775 dower out of her deceased husband's estate
> allotted her: Ches. O.B. 6, p.92, 4 Val. p.2309. After her husband's
> death she executed two deeds: (a) 11/2/1771 conveying her dower in land
> previously sold: Ches. D.B. 6, p.417, 3 Val. p.1323 and (b) as legatee
> under her father's will conveying to Henry Archer her 1/5th interest in
> certain slaves: Ches. D.B. 12, p.396, 3 Val. p.1328. In 1734 she sued
> William Mayo, executer, to recover her share of certain negroes
> belonging to her father's estate: Ches. O.B. 10, p. 363, 4 Val. p.2309.
> her will dated 9/17/1803, prob. 4/8/1805 executors Mary and Henry
> Archer, daughter and son-in-law: Ches. W.B. 6p.249, 3 Val. p.1320.
> James Branch Cabell and others claim that the wife of Robert Poythress
> was Elizabeth Bland, a descendant of William Randolph I of Turkey
> Island; if true, all descendants of Henry Randolph IV through her would
> belong in the Turkey Island Randolph line also. Although it is most
> intriguing for such descendants to claim descent from a praepositus so
> outstanding, Randolph C. Coleman does not think the marriage has been
> sufficiently established to support conclusively the claim: 6/22 and
> 8/9/1942."
>
> We already have Robert's and Tabitha's wills up on the page. I do not
> have this book in my possession and it is out of print. I will make a
> trip to the Louisville Public Library where there is a well worn copy.
> I am interested in finding out the arguments that James B. Cabell and
> others have made in support of the Elizabeth BLAND theory.
>
> Hope this will help direct further hunting!
>
> Elise Courtney H. Markham
> wry@aye.net		06/22/1997 12:40:39
FRANCIS POTYHRESS REFERENCESAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below are the references to Francis Poythress found in the Laws of Virginia
during the 17th Century in Virginia. These will be added to the 17th
Century page on our web site. I know that a few of you don't have web
access or have limited time to surf -- so here you are. I have several
additional references in hand for the period between 1650 and 1700, but
would still appreciate it if all of you would keep a keen eye out for items
I may have missed.

The fact that his history is so little known to us today is a real tragedy.


Cheers,

Al Tims
-------------------------------

1644 - 1st October
GRAND ASSEMBLY - Holden att James Cittie The First of October 1644 - 19th
Charles 1st. Manuscript in the Library of Congress and compiled in
Hening's Statutes Vol. 1, pp. 282-283.
The names of the Burgesses for the severall planations:
Charles Cittie: Capt. Edw. Hill, Speaker; Mr. Fra. Poythers, Mr. John
Bishopp, Mr. John Westropp.
1644/5 - 17th February
GRAND ASSEMBLY - Holden att James Cittie The 17th of February 1644/5 -
19th Charles 1st. Manuscript in the Library of Congress and compiled in
Hening's Statutes Vol. 1, pp. 288-289.
The names of the Burgesses:
Charles Cittie: Capt. Edward Hill, Speaker; Mr. Rice Hoe; Leift Francis
Poythres, Mr. Edward Prince.
1645/6 - 2nd March
GRAND ASSEMBLY - Holden at James Cittie The Second of March 1645/6 - 21st
Charles 1st. Manuscript in the Library of Congress and compiled in
Hening's Statutes Vol. 1, pp. 317-318.
ACT XVIII
WHEREAS the Governor, Council and Burgesses of this present Grand Assembly
have maturely weighed and considered the great and vast expence of the
collony, in prosecuting the warr against our common enemies the Indians,
and the almost impossibility of a further revenge upon them, they being
dispersed and driven from their townes and habitations, lurking up & downe
the woods in small numbers, And that a peace (if honourably obtained) would
conduce to the better being and comoditie of the country, have enacted, and
be it therefore enacted by the authority aforesaid, That three-score men be
forthwith raised on the north side of James River, well provided with fixed
guns, shot baggs and swords, That is'to say, from Henrico 2 men, Charles
Cittie county 4, James Citty countye 13, Yorke county 16, Warwick county
eight, Eliz. Citty county 8, and Northampton county 9 --- All which said
men shall march under and be obedient to the command of Leift. Fra:
Poythers in the manageing of any occasionall warr, And that upon all
emergent occasions in the treaty for the accomodation of a peace, the said
Leift. ffrancis Poythers shall follow the advice of Capt. Henry Fleet, And
that the said Capt. Henry Fleet shall according to his undertakeing and
propositions made to the Grand Assembly provide and make readie his barque,
boat and shallop, victualls and men for the manageing of the said vessells
for the space of sixe weeks, And ….[description of provisions] … And if it
shall soe happen that a peace may not or cannot be concluded, that then
they the said Fleet and Poythers shall erect and build a forte in any
convenient palce in Rappahannock River, or before if they shall soe think
fitt, And follow such further instructions as shall be given them, by this
Grand Assembly or the Governour and council.
1647 - 3rd November
GRAND ASSEMBLY - Holden at James Cittie The Third of November 1647 - 22nd
Charles 1st. Manuscript in the Library of Congress and compiled in
Hening's Statutes Vol. 1, pp. 337.
The Burgesses names of the severall countys:
Charles Citty: Capt. Edw. Hill, Speaker; Capt. Francis Poythers.
1648 - 12th October
GRAND ASSEMBLY - Holden at James Cittie The Twelfth of October 1648 - 23nd
Charles 1st. Manuscript in the Library of Congress and compiled in
Hening's Statutes Vol. 1, pp. 352-353.
ACT I
[Tract of land between Rappahannock and Potomack rivers called
Northumberland county. Act provides for the election of burgesses, patents
issued and inhabitants proportionably taxed. Note: Hening's Statutes
notes that this Act contains several erroneous references including the
date Northumberland first occurrred and representation in the House of
Burgesses.]
…. That the said inhabitants de futuro be rated proportionably in all
leavyes to the rest of the inhabitants of the collony, And that they make
payment of all arrears due from them, for which their so doeing Capt.
Francis Poythers hath undertaken to the Assembly who is therefore
authorized to collect the same, with power to distreyn in case of refusall
either of the said arrears or of the leavye ordered att this sessions of
Assembly.
1649 - 10th October
GRAND ASSEMBLY - Holden at James Cittie The 10th Day of October 1649*.
Manuscript in the Library of Congress and compiled in Hening's Statutes
Vol. 1, pp. 358-359.
*Charles the 1st was beheaded on the 30th of January, 1649. From that
period, the commonwealth, in England, commenced; and it continued under
different modification, till the restoration of Charles the 2nd in 1660.
The Burgesses names:
Northumberland: Capt. Francis Poythers, Mr. Jo. Trussell.
[NOTE: THIS IS THE LAST KNOWN DOCUMENTED REFERENCE TO CAPT. FRANCIS
POYTHRESS]		06/23/1997 1:43:01
Re: Land grantsCraig R. ScottAt 01:20 PM 6/23/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have two ancestors, Hardiman and John Poythress, who served in the
>American Revolutionary War. John was killed in action and his heirs
>were later granted land in Wilson County Tennessee. I have a copy of
>court records when the heirs sold the land to someone else. What I
>need is a copy of the application when the land was granted to his
>heirs. How and Where do I search for this record?

I believe the records will be located in the Land Office of the State of
North Carolina or in the State Archives in Raleigh. His heirs must have
recieved the land after 1791 since I am unable to find a Poythress listed in
"North Carolina Land Grants in Tennessee, 1778-1791.

It is difficult to tell how one got Tennessee grants. In 1790 North Carolina
ceded political control over Tennessee to the U.S. Government but continued
to grant bounty land until the 1820s on the same land. In 1806, Tennessee
was given title to the eastern two-thirds of the public lands, while the
western third, called the Congressional Reservation could be used if the
eastern two thirds was not enough to satisfy North Carolina warrents. With
the exception of a single 640 acre tract (the townsite of Pulaski) the
federal goverment did not gant any land in Tennessee, nor did they even open
a land office.

Hope this helps.

Craig

Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		06/23/1997 1:56:49
About LynLyn P BairdDear Poythress Researchers,

Thanks for the kind welcomes to your web site and mailing list. I will
take this opportunity to introduce myself. My full name is Lynwood
Poythress Baird and I am called Lyn after my grandfather Leonard
Poythress who was called Len. In another sense it might be argued that
my partial name (as yet determined) is Lynwood Bishop Taylor Morgan
Rainey Robertson Kidd Cannon Guy Drumwright Morris Singleton Richardson
Moseley Thomas Taylor Poythress Hammock Hanks Lambert Callis Parrish
Edmunds Jackson Land Taylor Baird. Let me know if any of you see a
shared surname here, we just might be double cousins.

I am married, am the father of three children and am an electrical
engineer. Our home is currently in Spring, Texas, just outside Houston.
While I have resided in Texas most of my adult life, I am a native of
Brodnax, Brunswick County, Virginia, where I resided until college. My
parents still reside there and I tend to visit the area about three to
four times each year. Growing up I was always interested in the family
stories, of which there were many. During college I began to learn how
to do family research and for a period of several years after college
genealogy was my fervent pursuit. For the last twelve years, however,
this interest has been inactive. Only with the advent of Internet
research have I renewed some limited activity, which has brought me to
you.

If there is anything genetic about the “pioneer spirit”, my ancestry
lacked it utterly. My current database contains about 65 direct
ancestors ranging up to eight generations and every one of them was born
within a thirty-mile radius of my birthplace, most within ten miles. I
can just imagine my forebears leaning back in their porch chairs, lazily
watching the wagon trains rolling by. While family stories were many, I
have found almost no written family sources. Perhaps for a combination
of reasons - disruptions of the Civil War and the accompanying decline of
literacy, primogeniture, that lazy anti-pioneer spirit - artifacts are
few. From the Poythress side I have no letters, no photographs or
portraits before perhaps 1910, and only a family legend about a Family
Bible. Even the tombstones are broken or replaced by fieldstones. So
almost all my research progress has been in the realm of public record.
This, too, has been quite spotty. It seems my ancestors rarely left
wills that were probated and many of the marriages were not bonded.
Apparently they relied on the customary church declaration of the banns
and church records are also rare.

I am currently compiling all occurrences of my surnames in Brunswick Deed
Book 14, which nominally spans recordings of the 1780’s. When done, I
will be happy to share the Poythress results with you. Thank you again
for your kind welcome and I look forward to participating.

Kind regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird		06/23/1997 5:02:55
Old Queries -- New AnswersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

In reviewing my files I stumbled across the following queries in the
Virginia Genealogist. They seem particularly timely in light of the recent
progress on the Georgia migrations.

The Virginia Genealogist Vol. 13 - 1969, p. 45

Francis, Edward, George and William Poythress came from Dinwiddie Co., Va.,
to Georgia by 1786 to 1805; who were their parents, wives and children?
Mrs. Frank Grass, 2506, 2506 N.W. 66 Street, Oklahoma City, Okla. 73116.

So, is this consistent with the recent Georgia discoveries?

The Virginia Genealogist Vol. 16 - 1972, p. 155

Will exchange information on Poythress family of Georgia and Virginia.
Rebecca Poythress wed Wade Prior, Columbia Co., Ga., 1829. She named her
first child Edward. Edward, George and Thomas Poythress Jr., lived in
Burke Co., Ga., 1799. Who were their parents? Francis Poythress of
Dinwiddie Co., Va., owned land in Georgia 1785. Who were his parents?
Mrs. Frank Grass, 20506 N.W. 66 Street, Oklahoma City, Okla. 73116.

I suspect Bud will be able to set me straight on all this. It is
interesting to see thast Mrs. Grass was on this trail more than 25 years
ago. I wonder if any of you have contacted, or know of, this Mrs. Grass.

Best,

Al Tims		06/23/1997 8:39:09
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #19Albert R. TimsCaroline,

I hope Maynard received your note before he hit the road. If he manages to
check-in during the week I will be sure to remind him. I've been reading
Boddie's Seventeenth Century Isle of Wight County Virginia and find quite a
few references to Jane PORTIS and John PORTIS, Sr. & John PORTIS, Jr. I
can find no evidence that these folks were connected to the Poythress folks
over in Charles City County. Of course, that statement doesn't mean too
much . I guess my question to you is: Have you ruled out these folks as
candidates?

Interestingly, I do find a reference to a William Ransom.

"He (Willliam Boddie) received a grant of 3,3,50 acres, 12 July 1665, for
the transportation of fifty-six persons, which patent of land included the
former 550 acres. This was for the transportation fo the persons shown
below (Old Volumne 5, p. 252, Va. Land Office):

Among the names mentioned I find William RANSOM.

I wish I had more for you.

Best,

Al Tims
----------
> From: CarBurCo@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #19
> Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 9:38 AM
>
> Dear Maynard Good Luck in Virginia and PLEASE
>
> Keep your eyes open for Col. RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM (Am. Rev)(1752-1827)
Isle
> of Wight Va, Halifax, to middle Tennessee who
> M. CHRISTINA KESIAH PORTIS/PORTHRESS
> (1763-1841) M 1784,and THIER adopted sons
> ROBERT PORTIS/PORTHRESS (Ransom) b. 1786
> BENJAMIN C. PORTIS/PORTHRESS (Ransom) b. 1788
> It would be quite a find to locate her parents and siblings.
>
> Good luck, anyway...even if you find nothing on her.
>
> Caroline Burnett Cook
> (with Bollings and Poythresses somewhere up the line)		06/23/1997 10:58:06
Land grantsJean SpilleI have two ancestors, Hardiman and John Poythress, who served in the
American Revolutionary War. John was killed in action and his heirs
were later granted land in Wilson County Tennessee. I have a copy of
court records when the heirs sold the land to someone else. What I
need is a copy of the application when the land was granted to his
heirs. How and Where do I search for this record?

Thanks,

Jean Poythress Spille

06/23/1997 11:20:05
Southside Reunionwayne scruggsTo Poythress List;
If there are any Poythress on this list from Meridian,Ms. who resided in
Southside or ever attended Southside Elementary School, ther is going to
be a reunion Aug.2,1997 at the Frank Cochran Center, Highland
Park,Meridian,Ms. If you plan on attending contact me for more
information. I received my invitation Saturday.
Thanks,
Judy Speed(Poythress) Scruggs
was638@inetnow.net		06/23/1997 11:25:20
Hardyman and LittleburyJean SpillePoythress List,

Lou Poole kindly responded to a post I made to the VA ROOTS list and I
am including it here. Please consider the connection he suggests to
my line in Northampton, North Carolina

James L. Poole wrote:
>
> Jean, your information, below, suggests a connection to the Epes & Hardyman
> families of Charles City and Prince George Counties, since you have both
> Littleberry/Littlebury and Hardyman among the names. I don't know the exact
> connection but following are some significant clues.
>
> We'll start with Mary Epes (b. ca. 1666), daughter of the emigrant Francis
> Epes, who married John Hardyman after 1 Aug 1685. Among their children were
> Mary Hardyman who married John Poythress, another daughter who married Joshua
> Poythress, and Littleberry Hardyman, who:
>
> "3 Littlebury Hardyman; b. about 1700, was a resident of Martin's Brandon
> Parish, Prince George County, on 13 November 1722 when John and Henrietta Maria
> Hardyman conveyed to him 261 acres on Harris' Run, married Judith ____ and
> left will 19 September 1726 - 8 November 1726, which named his wife Jude
> executrix, left his wearing apparel to his brother William Hardyman, and gave
> one shilling apiece to each of his brothers and sisters, but did not name them.
> Edmund Irby, Sr. and Jr., were witnesses to the will. Judith Hardyman
> apparently moved to New Kent County where in 1728 and 1729 two Negroes
> belonging to her were baptized."
>
> Thus, in this one neat little family group we have a Littleberry (came from the
> Epes family), Hardymans, and Poythresses, and we have evidence of Littleberry
> Hardyman's widow moving "up country" to New Kent County.
>
> Somewhere in all this, I'll bet good money is the connection you seek.
>
> Lou Poole, Richardson, TX (lpoole@dallas.net)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Lou,

I believe you also subscribe to the POYTHRESS discussion list. I have
a gut feeling that I descend from one of the Poythress boys who traded
with the Indians in the area of the Roanoke River. These boys (one of
the Francises and Peter of Flowerdew Hundred, one of the Roberts, and
one of the Williams) all patented land in this area of VA and NC. Is
this the same group that moved "up country"?

To be honest, those early guys have frustrated me for over thirty
years and I thought I would leave it to the others to figure all that
out. At the moment I am out here alone trying to focus on the
tri-racial Poythresses that I know about. Hardyman, Odom and John
Poythress and Littleberry who is the nephew of John and Hardyman...He
may be the son of Odom but I don't know this for sure. The three
brothers go back to around 1750 and I know a little about them. Like
so many other Poythress rooters I can not prove my connection to these
three Brothers I can only surmise it. My gggrandfather was James
Poythress married to Sarah Crowder in 1826 and I can prove this far.

Jean Poythress Spille		06/23/1997 12:48:07
Re: Pewtresse-Poythress-Proctrress-etc.Marion & Helene PockrusI for one can't feel that anything is far afield in the U.S. of A. The
name variants in the south were terrible and that's why you,Maynard,
suggested I post the Pockrus name in the Poythress board. Southern slurs
and dropped consanants sure caused a problem. Having just come back from 4
days in Texas, I am youalling with the best of them. Thanks to your post
I now have someone to work with that also is involved with the Pockrus and
Poythress name. Maybe it was a "purer" name in England. Either here or
THERE it may have made a change if indeed it is Poythress. I have to look
at the variances as I can't find any other Pockrus anywhere.
Helene
----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Pewtresse
> Date: Thursday, June 19, 1997 10:10 AM
>
> Julian:
>
> Discount me up front as a hard case with respect to variants but I'm
having
> some difficulty with this Pewtresse. My reasoning is a look at the IGI
list
> for Gloucestershire and Herefordshire. Wall to wall with very logical
> variants: Poytheres, Poytherus, Poytheras, Poythriss, Poytress. If
there is
> a single thread of phonetic consistency it is the "Poy" sound (and even
the
> "Poy" spelling) followed by the "th".
>
> To be sure, it only takes one guy or gal striking off for some corner of
the
> world with a variant spelling to start a whole tribe of the new variant.
> However, based on how close those folks in south central Eng. were
getting
> the "phonetic" transferred to paper, I just can't embrace Pewtresse with
much
> enthusiasm. In fact, I think we only came up with Pewtresse in the
process
> of flailing about looking for a career-related surname match and not with
a
> likely suspect actually using the name.
>
> I realize of course that if the matter runs true to course....this very
> e-mail will bring a half dozen people out of the woodwork to prove me
dead
> wrong....so maybe I can help in the sense of "reverse English" (no pun
> intended).
>
> Best,
>
> Maynard		06/24/1997 2:55:25
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #22Righton McCallumPOYTHRESS-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote:
>
> POYTHRESS-D Digest Volume 97 : Issue 22
>
> Today's Topics:
> #1 Land grants [Jean Spille ]
> #2 Southside Reunion [wayne scruggs ]
>
> ______________________________
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Land grants
> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:20:05 -0400
> From: Jean Spille
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
>
> I have two ancestors, Hardiman and John Poythress, who served in the
> American Revolutionary War. John was killed in action and his heirs
> were later granted land in Wilson County Tennessee. I have a copy of
> court records when the heirs sold the land to someone else. What I
> need is a copy of the application when the land was granted to his
> heirs. How and Where do I search for this record?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jean Poythress Spille
>
> ______________________________
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Southside Reunion
> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 13:25:20 -0400
> From: wayne scruggs
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
>
> To Poythress List;
> If there are any Poythress on this list from Meridian,Ms. who resided in
> Southside or ever attended Southside Elementary School, ther is going to
> be a reunion Aug.2,1997 at the Frank Cochran Center, Highland
> Park,Meridian,Ms. If you plan on attending contact me for more
> information. I received my invitation Saturday.
> Thanks,
> Judy Speed(Poythress) Scruggs
> was638@inetnow.netAt least in the state of N.C. there is a list of Revolutionary soldiers
and their heirs who received land grants in pamphlet form. I would bet
most states have a similar publication.RMc		06/24/1997 5:59:26
Good work, Pat CreweCharles NealThanks so much Pat for the excellent and voluminous work you have done
transcribing those tedious-to-read old documents!!

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

06/24/1997 7:11:29
Check Your PostsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The RootsWeb server has been having some growing pains again. AOL
continues to be fussy and a hacker is sending threats to the system
operators (nasty ones...). I know that I have several posts to the list
that have not appeared during the past 24 hours. I suspect the same is
true for others of you.

I contacted the RootsWeb operators and they can't rule out the possibility
that some of the message traffic may have been lost, although they report
that they are still clearing the cues.

Bottom line -- if you've posted a message in the last day or so and did not
see it come back on via the list -- please resubmit.

Thanks,

Al Tims		06/24/1997 10:44:07
Re: COCHRANS IN MERIDIAN MS???Marion & Helene PockrusRegarding the following note posted by Judy. If anyone can tell me who the
Frank Cochran Center in Highland Park was named after I would be
appreciative. As per my inquiry in the Poythress website on David
Pockrus, the Pockrus family was always in the company of the Boggs,
Waldrops and the Cochran families. As I have a lot of Cochran research,
just who was the Frank ochran in MS, and where did he come from and in
which time frame was he there? Anyone know?
Helene Pockrus

> To Poythress List;
> If there are any Poythress on this list from Meridian,Ms. who resided in
> Southside or ever attended Southside Elementary School, ther is going to
> be a reunion Aug.2,1997 at the Frank Cochran Center, Highland
> Park,Meridian,Ms. If you plan on attending contact me for more
> information. I received my invitation Saturday.
> Thanks,
> Judy Speed(Poythress) Scruggs
> was638@inetnow.net		06/24/1997 10:53:57
Old Queires & Some New Insights -- PerhapsAlbert R. Tims(RESEND OF MESSAGE)
Poythress List,

In reviewing my files I stumbled across the following queries in the
Virginia Genealogist. They seem particularly timely in light of the recent
progress on the Georgia migrations.

The Virginia Genealogist Vol. 13 - 1969, p. 45

Francis, Edward, George and William Poythress came from Dinwiddie Co., Va.,
to Georgia by 1786 to 1805; who were their parents, wives and children?
Mrs. Frank Grass, 2506, 2506 N.W. 66 Street, Oklahoma City, Okla. 73116.

So, is this consistent with the recent Georgia discoveries?

The Virginia Genealogist Vol. 16 - 1972, p. 155

Will exchange information on Poythress family of Georgia and Virginia.
Rebecca Poythress wed Wade Prior, Columbia Co., Ga., 1829. She named her
first child Edward. Edward, George and Thomas Poythress Jr., lived in
Burke Co., Ga., 1799. Who were their parents? Francis Poythress of
Dinwiddie Co., Va., owned land in Georgia 1785. Who were his parents?
Mrs. Frank Grass, 20506 N.W. 66 Street, Oklahoma City, Okla. 73116.

I suspect Bud will be able to set me straight on all this . It is
interesting to see thast Mrs. Grass was on this trail more than 25 years
ago. I wonder if any of you have contacted, or know of, this Mrs. Grass.

Best,

Al Tims		06/24/1997 11:04:47
Thomas Pewtresse will -- 14th June 1589Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pat Crewe transcribed the following for us from Old English (no easy task).
We owe her a tremendous debt of gratitude. Thanks Pat! I will add this
to our web page shortly.

Enjoy!
Al Tims
------------------------

This is the 3rd and last will transcribed. If it doesn't reach you in a
readable form, please let me know and I will try again.
Regards, Pat
This is the will of Thomas Pewtresse who was buried on the 14th June 1589
in Dymock. From the
parish registers of Dymock, Thomas Pewtres the younger married Margery
Cuertyne on 4th August
1561 and Thomas Pewtres the elder was buried 16 August 1568. Thomas &
Margery don't appear to
have any children but mention brothers and brother's childen etc. which is
often useful.
Where I have added anything I have used square brackets, as curved brackets
are used in the actual text
and a "?" for uncertainties..

THOMAS PEWTRESSE [Shoemaker]
In the name of God amen, the eightenthe daye of June, in the yere of our
Lord God one thousande five
hundred fowerscore and eyghte [1588], and in the thirtiethe yere of the
reigne of our Soveraigne Ladie
Elizabeth by the grace of God Amene of England France & Irelande defender
of the faythe.
I Thomas Pewtres of Dymocke in the county of glouc. shoemaker, being in
good health and perfecte
Remembrance thankes be to God for it, doe make my last will and testamente,
in manner and forme
followinge, That is to saye, fyrste and principally I comend my soule to
allmyghty God, my maker and
savioure Jesus Christe by whom I was Redeemed, And the meritte of whose
glorious death and
passion, I truste only to be saved, and my bodye to be buried in Chrysten
buryall, And as touchinge
suche porcion of worldely goodes, which I have received of the mercifull
goodnes of almightie God, (
for the which I render & give unto him, moste humble and hartie thanks) I
leave them unto the worlde,
to be imployed and bestowed in manner and forme followinge.
(that is to say) First I give and bequeathe, towards the reperacion of
Dymocke churche the som of vis.
viiid. [6s. 8d.]
Item I give and bequeathe (as charitie byndethe me) unto the poore the soms
of xxs [20s] and vis viiid
[6s. 8d.] to bringe me anearth ?
Item I give to my brother James children - xs and also one coople [couple]
of sheeppe to my godsonne
John Pewtres sonne of the said James.
Item I give & bequeathe to Grace Pewtres daughter of the foresaid James one
single canvas;
Item to Anne Pewtres daughter of the said James my best coadron [cauldron?]
saving one.
I give and bequeath to William Pyrrocks children - vs.
Item I give and bequeath to John Pewtres and Anne Pewtres sonne and
daughter of Thomas Pewtres of
Tyllice greene - vs.
Item I give and bequeathe to Anne Pewtres daughter of the said Thomas of
Tyllice greene one flocke
bedd and all as belonge to him.
Item I give and bequeathe to John Pewtres sonne of the said Thomas of
Tyllic greene one coffer
conteyninge by measure three bushels,
Item to the same John one cople [couple] of sheepe.
Item I give to William Pewtres sone of Edmond Pewtres one cowe.
Item to every one of my brother Edmond Pewtres & Katherynes children xiid.
Item I give & bequeathe to Jane Pewtres daughter of the said Edmond one
fryinge panne.
Item I give & bequeathe to Katheryne Pewtres daughter of the said Edmond
one brass pott.
Item to Matthew Pewtres one payr of hempen sheets .
Item I give to Anne Bayly my best coadron [cauldron?]
Item I give to Margery Tawney and John her sonne - xs.
Item I give to the said John Tawney - ii sheeppe,
Item I give to John Pewtres sone of Thomas Pewtres of Tyllice greene & to
the said John Tawney all
my weringe apparall to be divided equally betwene them.
Item I give to Johane Tawney - xiid.
Item to Margarett Tawney - xiid.
Item to William Tawney sone of the said Margarett - xiid
Item I give and bequeathe to John Pewtres sone of Edmond Pewtres one cople
of sheepe.
Item I give and bequeathe to Thomas Pewtres my godsonne, sonne of Thomas
Pewtres of Tyllice
greene one double canvas?, one coobbord (cupboard), one halfe pyppe? one
table boord & one forme.
Item I give and bequeathe to the same Thomas my said godsonne ii barrels.
Item I give and bequeathe to the same Thomas Pewtres my said godsonne one
coverlidde.
Item I give to the same Thomas two peynted cloths and a pair of sheets.
Item I give and bequeathe to my brother Edmond Pewtress one chest.
Item to the same Edmond - xxs
All the residue and rest of all my goodes chattels and debts due to me
bothe moveable and unmoveable,
bills and obligacions, unbequeathed, my debts legacies and funerall
expences performed and done, I
wholye give and bequeathe to the said Edmond Pewtres my brother and Thomas
Pewtres my foresaid
godsonne, whom I make my Executors joyntly together to see this my will and
testament well and
faythfully performed, as my trust is in them both.
Ms ? that I will that all promises and bequeathes
within this my last will and testament
conteyned to be hadd receaved delivered fulfilled and paid within three
moneths next after the decease
of the last and longest liver of me Thomas Pewtres and Margerie my wief and
after the decease of the
longest liver of both us.		06/24/1997 11:11:06
Re: About LynAlbert R. TimsLyn,

GREAT introduction! Thanks. Delighted to have you with us. We look
forward to discovering more about your Poythress tree and the Baird
connections. We have a John Baird in recent communication who tells us he
descends from Benjamin Baird of Mecklenburg County. He wrote me today
saying "The Benjamin you
cited I'm sure is my gr gr gr grandfather. His daughter Sarah, married
John
Speed, a prominent family in VA. There is a Speed Family genealogy filed
with the State Archives in Nashville but I have not read it. I hope to
before
too much longer. The John Baird & Co and the John who married Jane
Poythress
are still up for grabs as to which line they belong."

This should bring a big smile to list member Judy Poythress Speed Scruggs'
face. I'm hopeful that John will join our list -- if he hasn't done so
already.

If you are doing the Brunswick County Deed Books then you should visit
Carol Morrison's Brunswick County GenWeb page. She has the following deed
books abstracted and online. This makes doing name searches a very easy
task:

Abstracts of Brunswick County Deeds available On-Line:

Deed Books 1-5 (Misc. Abstracts) Deed Book 3 (1744-1749) Deed Book 4
(1750-1764) Deed Book 5 (1752-1755) [Only first part of book is presently
available] Deed Book 6 (1755-1762) Deed Book 7 (1761-1764) [Only first
part of book is presently available.] Deed Book 14 (1780-1790) Deed Book
15

The URL is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/

Scroll down near the bottom. Actually, there are a number of online
resources mentioned on our web page (resources) that you might find
helpful. In particular, Craig Scott's Willow Bend internet bookstore is a
fantastic resource (his online book list is great). The URL
is http://server.mediasoft.net/ScottC/default.htm

Best,

Al Tims		06/24/1997 11:30:06
Partial List of Bio Statements From SubscribersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following is quite dated now and may need further editing. I'm
convinced that I've misplaced some of the bio information sent to me and am
missing quite a few of you. We currently have 30 subscribers. I'd be
thrilled to have a higher participation rate! My plan is to wait a week
for new/corrected/resubmitted bio statements to come pouring in and
then repost an updated version. I will send it out to new subscribers as
they join.

Also, it is possible for new subscribers to access the archives of earlier
posts to this list since we made the move from MAISER to RootsWeb. The
MAISER archives still haven't appeared and may never do so. I've tried to
save all the old posts from the MAISER days, but don't have them cleanly
compiled as an archive file. I am adding the instructions for requesting
the archive files to the web page. If you have problems making sense of
the instructions please let me know and I'll try to help.

Cheers,
Al Tims

POYTHRESS GENEALOGY LIST SUBSCRIBERS: BIOGRAPHICAL STATEMENTS

BELL, LUCY KENNARD (SLBELL1@aol.com)
b. St. Louis, MO, now living in Lake Forest, IL Attorney (by education);
Wife, Mother and Ancestor-seeker (by choice) I'm a descendant of Captain
Francis Poythress through his daughter, Jane, who
married Thomas Rolfe. Looking for "certainty" of name of wife of Francis
and names of his parents. I'm "lurking" at the moment in order to work on
my
husband's lines.

COOK, CAROLINE BURNETT (CarBurCo@aol.com)
Born in Alabama, presently living with my husband in Newark, Delaware, home
of the U. of D. I was born in BIRMINGHAM like Barbara Neal AND have
ancestors who were in the South Alabama plantation areas in the early
1800's...Lowndes Co, Dallas
Co, Sumter Co and in Montgomery. In Birmingham, I grew up as CAROLE
BURNETT....since my mother was Caroline.
Descendant of KIZIAH PORTIS (also spelled, in various
docum.Portis, Portress...maybe the backwoods versions of POYTHRESS. Seems
likely to me. Searching for:
Parents and siblings of this lady:
KIZIAH PORTRESS was b.1763-d.1841.
MARRIED :1874, in Halifax ...NC or Va:
CAPT. RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM b1752, Isle of Wight Co., Va.,d.22 July 1827 in
Murphreesboro, Tennessee.
Searching for birthplace of: Robert Ransom (formerlyROBERT PORTRESS)b.1786
Benjamin C. Ransom (formerly BENJAMIN PORTRESS)b.1788
The NC Archives say their name was changed by an act of the legislature,
the bill having been put by RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM, ROBERT PORTRESS and
BENJAMIN C. PORTRESS. These Portress or possibly POYTRESS boys were raised
as children of the Ransoms. All the other Ransom children were born between
1790 and
1819.

CROSSLIN, JIM (crosslin@us.net)
I have no relationship to the Poythress line, per se. However, there is a
remote tie-in to the line that could possibly shed light on the arrival
date of my immigrant -- a Cros(s)land. For this reason, I have been
"listening" to the Poythress group for a little while to see what I might
learn.

NEAL, BARBARA POYTHRESS (73622.2543@compuserve.com)
Born a Poythress in Birmingham, AL. Currently living in Los Angeles, CA
area. Not retired, but wish I were so would have more time for family
history. Descendant of James Edward Poythress who was born in Mecklenburg
County, VA on the 13th of August 1803, and who moved to Sumter County, AL
at age 50 with his wife & all 8 of their children & with his "nephew, James
Speed Poythress" in 1853. Would love to learn who was the father of James
Edward Poythress, my gggrandfather. Interested in all Poythress info
anytime, anywhere.

I do know that Carl Poythress, one of James Speed Poythress' sons, when he
(Carl) was quite elderly wrote his niece in 1967 that the father of James
Speed Poythress was Nathan Poythress, and that the grandfather of James
Speed Poythress was David Poythress, but I (and others who have worked on
Mecklenburg County, VA Poythress folks) suspect that he reversed it, and
that JSP's father was more likely David. Have yet to find a trace of a
Nathan Poythress that early, but would appreciate knowing if anyone else
knows of an earlier Nathan Poythress since my grandfather (b. 1878) was
named Nathan, and one of his uncles (that is, one of the sons of James
Edward Poythress) was also named Nathan (b.1830).

POYTHRESS, BUD LeRoof (nmn) "Bud" (BPoythress@aol.com)
Wilmington, NC
b. Savannah, GA - January 27th, 1921
d. ? - not yet, I don't think!
Married: 12/17/43 to Ensign Esther
Merle Clark, RN, USNR of Garfield
(Emanuel County), GA..
We have 2 children; Joseph E. Poythress, III (now living in
Cumming, GA); and Martha Settie (Poythress) Jones (living here in
Wilmington, NC).
I served 20 years active duty US Navy, 1939-59; employed 7+
years by Marchant Div., SCM Corp; 8 years Civil Service, (Fed. Gov.) -
USAF, Langley Field, VA; and FDA, Rockville, MD. - Retired 9/30/80 and did
consultant duty until we moved to Lake Hartwell, GA 4/1/81 upon wife's
retirement from NIH, Bethesda, MD. I was the 2nd child born to Joseph
Eugene and Martha Elizabeth (Gnann)
Poythress, Sr. 2nd of 4 children, one (3rd) died at birth; however some
"said it was me!", but I'm not really sure? I am a decendent of Meredith &
Edith (Cleaton) Poythress, Sr. of Mecklenburg County, VA, who after 1800
migrated to Burke Co., GA and in 1803 settled in Screven Co., GA. My
siblings: Joseph E. Poythress, Jr., Gunnersmate 2c, USN b. 10/2/18; d.
"KIA" 11/13/42 aboard the USS Aaron Ward DD483 at Guadalcanal; and Martha
Ann (Poythress) Bridges; b. 8/2/28; m. Glee Edwin Bridges now living in
Kings Mountain, NC.

POYTHRESS, CLAUDE RAYMOND (HMCM28@aol.com)
Congratulations to all who are doing such good work. Hope to contribute
something in the future.
44 Adna Pearce Road
Zebulon, NC 27597

POYTHRESS, JOHN MAYNARD (VKRatliff@aol.com)
B. Macon, GA, now lives Louisville, KY. Retired. Descendent of Thomas
Poythress ca 1760 Dinwiddie County through Meredith Poythress of
Mecklenburg County, VA who immigrated to Screven County, GA ca 1787.
Looking for all Poythresses anytime, anywhere in building one-name data
base.

POYTHRESS, LORI WALKER (LPoythress@COMPUSERVE.COM)
Lori Walker Poythress , wife of Gary Lee Poythress . Married in 1978 .
Gary's parents , Jackson Lee Poythress and Geneva Gaskins Poythress live in
South Hill , Va in Mecklenburg , County.
Currently live in Chesterfield County , VA with two sons Justin Grant
Poythress 15, Aaron Lee Poythress 12.
I've taught school in Prince George County , VA for 16 years.

SCOTT, CRAIG ROBERTS (willowbend@mediasoft.net)
b. Washington, DC now lives Lovettsville, Va. Retired, Navy Medical Service
Corps Officer, USNR. Full time genealogist, Certified Genealogical Records
Specialist in the military records of the National Archives, national
lecturer, author, publisher and proprietor of Willow Bend Books a
Genealogical and Historical Bookstore on the Internet. I am a member of the
National Genealogical Society Quarterly Editorial Board and the President
of the Association of One-Name Studies. I have been the Poythress point of
contact in the Guild of One-Name Studies since 1985.

I am a descendent of Benjamin Poythress, a huckster of Petersburg, Va. who
lived there in the 1850 and early 1860s. Buried Blanford Cemetery. Wife,
Susan M. and family moved to Lynchburg, Va. where Mary Ellen Poythress
married my great-grandfater Roland Woody Roberts as his first wife. I have
benn collecting information on Poythresses anytime any place since 1987
when I wanted to prove that a girl friend was a cousin. The girl friend
went
away but the passion for Poythresses did not. I am also the Clan Scott
Genealogist and am over a year behind in correspondence so that tells you
where by Poythress work lies.

SCRUGGS, JULIA ANN (JUDY) (was638@inetnow.net)
Scruggs, Julia Ann "Judy Speed" b. Meridian, Ms. Now live in Atlanta,Ga.
I have been in the childcare business for 16 years. Just sold my last
center last year. I am taking it easy for a while. Descendant of David
Poythress ca 1806 Mecklenburg county,Va.

SPILLE, BARBARA JEAN POYTHRESS (spillej@esper.com)
Rockwood, Tennessee
Birthplace - Hopewell Virginia, 1946
Father - William Arthur Poythress
Birthplace - Wilson County, North Carolina, 1906
Grandfather - William Francis Poythress, 1875
Birthplace - Northampton, North Carolina
GGrandfather - Richard P.Poythress, about 1846
Birthplace - Northampton, North Carolina
I am a retired teacher, run a Bed & Breakfast in my Victorian Home.

STARR, LINDA SPARKS (starr81@ix.netcom.com)
I'm one of those "allied lines". For the life of me, I can't remember
just "which" and "where" the connection lies -- somewhere in early
Henrico and Charles City Counties -- and am too busy on "other" lines to
look up the connection now. I'm writing this note to say "thanks" to
those providing "extraneous" information to the group. I've especially
enjoyed the Mulungeon and Portegeuse discussions for I had to get off the
Melungeon list -- couldn't handle ALL the mail from it. Keep up the good
work -- someday I'll remember where the connection lies.

TIMS, NELL & ALBERT, SR. (smith@gte.net)

(bio promised ...)

TIMS, ALBERT, JR. (atims@minn.net)
List Sponsor for Poythress-L@RootsWeb.com and Poythress Genealogy Research
Web Site at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
Occupation: Professor and director of Graduate and Undergraduate Studies,
School of Journalism and Mass Communication, University of Minnesota.
Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Also taught at Indiana
University-Bloomington and Stanford University. Served as a Foreign Affairs
Specialist for the U.S. Information Agency. Teach courses in political
communication, public opinion, quantitative research methods, communication
theory, public affairs, and advertising.

Interested in all aspects of the Poythress family history at any place and
at any time. Because of my broader interests in social and political
history, I'm quite interested in the
histories of allied families and the communities where they lived.
Descendant of James Speed Poythress of Mecklenburg County, VA.

WOLFE, BARBARA POYTHRESS (Beetle72@aol.com)
Born in Jacksonville, Florida, and I now live in Southern California.
Descendant of David E. Poythress (1800-1876) of Mecklenburg, VA.
David moved into Vance County, NC and he had a close association with Lewis
Poythress of Mecklenburg. I would like to learn their kinship.
Interested in gathering and sharing Poythress info.

----------------------------------		06/25/1997 1:14:45
Re: Old Queries -- New AnswersAl,

Yes the old queries you reference ties in perfectly with the latest
Poythress news Maynard obtained from Mrs. Dixon in Charlotte, NC. The names
Edward, George, Thomas, Jr. and Francis all tie in; and the dates too, as
well.

And if my memory is still holding up, Maynard was in contact the Mr &
Mrs. Glass a couple years ago. But by the time Maynard learned of them and
found their address, (testing my recall senses again) he found them both to
be quite old and she had become rather ill with Mr. Glass serving as her
caregiver. And he found Mr. Glass not particularily interested in Mrs.
Glass' genealogy hobby. After some of that "honest to God" encouragement yo
know Maynard to be capatable of, Mr. Glass promised he would dig through
some old storage boxes in their basement and pull out all "good Poythress"
information she had gathered, and ship it all off to Maynard.

A second and subsequent phone call prompted another "promise", but I
don't think the material ever arrived at Maynard's study!

However, I suggest you just hold this "Mr. & Mrs. Glass question" in
limbo until our boy Maynard lights long enouth to send an E-mail message --
for I'm sure he'll be checking in shortly.

Our best to you,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com - June 25, 1997 - 4:52 PM)		06/25/1997 3:00:55
Re: Old Queries -- New AnswersAlbert R. TimsBud,

Thanks a million! Maynard is off in D.C. visiting his daughter. Pleased
to learn that we're getting confirming information. Below is the last of
her posts (that I'm aware of). In it she speaks of orphan children. Does
this ring any bells for you?

This is from an OLD post in The Virginia Genealogist (vol. 19, 1975).

Need parents of Poythress who went from Virginia to Georgia before 1820.
Also names of their children. Francis of Richmond Co., Ga., was from
Dinwiddie Co., Va. He and Thomas left orphans in Burke and Hancock Co.,
Ga., where Elizabeth and edward also lilved. Who were their parents and
children? Mrs. Frank Grass, 2506 W.W. 66 St., Oklahoma City, Okla. 73116.

My question is "what happened to the orphan children"? When were they
orphaned?

Best,

Al Tims

ps -- Yes, Maynard could sell snow to a Minnesota farmer!		06/25/1997 4:05:30
Re: Old Queires & Some New Insights -- PerhapsCharles NealLinda,

THANKS! We would greatly appreciate you checking the members' ancestor
cards when you next get to OK. It would be great if we could find what
basis Mrs. Grass had for her connections -- hopefully more than just her
hunches. Hopefully if she had more specifics, she filed it somewhere
before she left to join her Poythress ancestors.

Unfortunately, as I recall Maynard mentioning before heading off to old
Virginny, he not only never got any info out of Mr or Mrs Grass, but when
he was talking years ago with a woman at their house who he took to be the
nurse/caregiver, she told him to stop calling (about the Poythress info)
because "those old papers weren't good for anything & I burned them."

So anything you might be able to find in OK would be a great help!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

06/25/1997 6:59:46
Poythress & CrowderCharles NealJean,

I had not realized before your 6/25/97 message to the Poythress List that
you have proved now that your Richard P. Poythress (b. 1846 Northampton Co,
NC) was apparently the son of James R. Poythress who, you mentioned in an
earlier post, married Sarah Crowder on Jan. 13, 1826 in Northampton Co, NC.

I would love to learn what sort of proof you have found that connects them.

My gggrandfather's eldest son, Joshua Lewis Poythress, married a Crowder
also: Elizabeth J. Crowder. Their Oct. 17, 1852 marriage was recorded in
adjacent Warren County, NC, though according to family records they
actually had the wedding in (also adjacent) Mecklenburg Co, VA.
I realize that 1826 and 1852 are 26 years apart, and that Warren &
Northampton counties are only adjacent, so it is questionable how, or if,
your Sarah Crowder and my Elizabeth Crowder may have been related. At any
rate I would be quite interested in more info about how you have connected
your Richard P to James, and any further info you could share about Sarah &
James.

Hope all is well with you.
BPN 6/25/97
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/25/1997 6:59:49
Re Introductory BiosCharles NealTo all who submitted introductory bio/interest statements --

Thanks; it does help each of us know how we can better help one
another. The List makes it easy to reach all of us at once, & most of the
time we benefit from reading messages to all. However, if anyone wishes to
send me an individual message rather than thru the List, it is easier to
address mail to my same E-mail mailbox by using
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
than it is to use the purely numerical address that Al included in the big
listing of bio statements.
My review of that big listing made me think that probably many
more of us will directly benefit from sharing Poythress info about
Poythress folks in the 1700s and 1800s, versus the 1600s, though we are all
curious about Francis and the 1600s.
I have a fair amount of info about 1900s Poythress folks, too, in
case anyone is stuck in the early part of this century and wants to write
to see if I have anything that might help.

Cheers,
BPN
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/25/1997 6:59:51
Re: Old Queires & Some New Insights -- PerhapsStarrHello POYTHRESS list,

Al asked:

>ago. I wonder if any of you have contacted, or know of, this Mrs. Grass.

I asked my cousin who is a long-time member of the OK Genealogical
Society if she knew this lady? She's never heard
of her, and her name doesn't appear in the book of members
which Sharon had 'handy". I SHOULD be going up to the library
sometime this summer/early fall; I'll check the member's ances-
tors' cards when I do.

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		06/25/1997 7:49:32
Re: Re Introductory BiosAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Barbara -- sorry I forgot to update your email address. I fix it on the
next go round.

As for the records from the 1600s, I believe I mentioned early on that one
of my goals was to nail down all the know records from the 1600s before
taking on the larger and far more complex task of pulling together the
1700s and beyond. I think I'm getting close and, when done, we'll
hopefully have a comprehensive platform for moving forward. At this point,
I'd be delighted with anything folks will submit from any time period.

Now that you mention it, Maynard did mention the loss of the Grass records.
My reason for posting her early queries was to determine if what she was
saying was being born out by the recent new information. I must confess to
still being confused about the connections you, Bud and Maynard are seeing.
Perhaps one of you will pull it all together at some point down the line.

Al Tims

----------
From: Charles Neal
To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re Introductory Bios
Date: Wednesday, June 25, 1997 7:59 PM

To all who submitted introductory bio/interest statements --

Thanks; it does help each of us know how we can better help one
another. The List makes it easy to reach all of us at once, & most of the
time we benefit from reading messages to all. However, if anyone wishes to
send me an individual message rather than thru the List, it is easier to
address mail to my same E-mail mailbox by using
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
than it is to use the purely numerical address that Al included in the big
listing of bio statements.
My review of that big listing made me think that probably many
more of us will directly benefit from sharing Poythress info about
Poythress folks in the 1700s and 1800s, versus the 1600s, though we are all
curious about Francis and the 1600s.
I have a fair amount of info about 1900s Poythress folks, too, in
case anyone is stuck in the early part of this century and wants to write
to see if I have anything that might help.

Cheers,
BPN
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
----------		06/25/1997 8:38:31
Mrs. Frank GrassAl.....you asked about this lady and since I chased her longer than any of us
I'll relate the story as briefly as possible and we can perhaps put it to
rest.

Couple years ago I found that query in Ga. Gene. Journ. at GDAH. Called Mrs.
Grass at the number information gave me. Low and behold, she and husband
were still living in Oklahoma City at the same address as the 40 year old
query.

I talked to Mr. Grass who delighted in describing his hot and dusty waits
outside of GA courthouses as his wife had had an even worse time of it
plowing through old dusty boxes. According to Mr. Grass, he would be
delighted for my daughter (then on temp. assignment in OK City), to come by
and drive him over to Kinkos and spend "a few thousand dollars" copying Mrs.
Grass' materials.

I phoned back the next day to confirm the logistics after talking to my
daughter and got to speak to the nastiest lady imaginable who said a) Mrs.
Grass had total Alzheimers b) Mr. Grass was crazy and b) none of "them 'ol
papers amounted to nothin' no way so I just burned 'em up a few weeks ago!!!
(I learned just last week in talking to Mrs. Dixon in Charlotte that the
nasty lady in question was Mr. Grass' daughter.) Anyhow, determined to
circumvent said nasty lady I phoned back at least a half dozen times
speculating that I could hit Mr. Grass while his "guard" was out to get
groceries or something and if I could ever get my daughter in there she could
out-nasty the "guard".

I kept at this drill over about six months (allowing a decent interval after
nasty lady screamed at me that Mrs. Grass had died).....and when I gave it up
was when she told me Mr. Grass had died also.

I kind of think she got her jollies screaming into the phone because if she
was really as offended as she seemed to be she would have long ago sent the
law after me because I just refused to give up.

So.....I pronounce this one a tragic dead end. But if anybody wants to try
to pull off a Lazarus for the price of a phone call, informations got the
number and the Grass daughter is at the same address. I'll absolutely love to
be proved wrong on this one.

MP		06/25/1997 9:16:27
A FribbleAll of us poking about for Poythress records can't help but see the name

P'pool P'Pool P'poole P'Poole.

I never bothered to ask but I suppose I just speculated that it was some kind
of weird gaelic contraction and didn't give it any further thought.

In NGS archives, however, the name is even more prominent but interspersed
among all of the above are Pettypool and Pettipool. Have I just been looking
at an abbreviation all along?

Maynard

06/25/1997 10:30:47
Lyn P. Baird's QuestionsLyn.....we're kind of a cozy crowd and you have questions aimed at multiple
folks so I'll just put 'em "on the board" and hope you won't mind.

1) sorry about the confusion on my name....in biz I use John M.
Poythress....my guess is you have spelled Lyn a million times. Well, I lost
all interest many years ago in spelling TWO names. So I'm John M. on legal
stuff, intros, etc. but Maynard to friends as I have been called all my life
to separate me from my father John and later my son John.

2) Lost messages. Since you be's a double-E I'll let you get by with that
"power failure" stuff but if anybody besides list-meister Al Tims gives you
that excuse from our group you can bet its just a cover-up for computer
spasticity (if that ain't a word it ought to be).

Okay on the Dixon stuff being attached to Juno but it was too long for even
AOL to take without chopping it in half so I'll send it to you straight up as
an attachment on a Juno message (which I'm betting won't work) and then I'll
embed it in the text ot two separate conventional e-mails, OK? You ought to
get it one way or the other but if you don't, despair not, its burned on half
dozen hard drives around here.

3) Barbara Neal......a. k. a. BPN....to distinguish Barbara Poythress Neal
from Barbara Poythress Wolfe who is BPW and they both live in La La Land.
Say, Barb,
the gentleman lost your message. Would you resend pls. And give him your
address. Thanks.

4) Bud Poythress....I don't know if he is the same Bud your mother has spoken
to but unless its in the context of genealogy, I'll guess not. But then
again maybe I ought not to speak for Bud because maybe he is getting around
more than I suspect. Bud comes from Savannah and recently moved to
Wilmington. He is the only guy in the world older than me and I'm older than
dirt.

Anyway, just ask him yoursef'.....its BPoythress@aol.com.

5) Re Martha Dixon.....you'll see the relationship when you get the write-up
but that
little girl who was one year old when she came with that crowd from
Mecklenburg/Dinwiddie/Brunswick/where ever was named "Martha Amanda Elizabeth
Poythress", presumably youngest daughter of Thomas James Poythress, married a
John Dixon in Waynesboro (or Waynesborough, GA as they called it then)...in
1804.

When you get Mrs. Dixon's material you'll see what Bud had to point out to me
and that is the years between Meredith Poythress, Sr. (oldest) and M.A.E.
Poythress (youngest) are 26. That is really pushing it. Its not unheard of
considering the conditions of the period but its more likely that 26 years
difference would lead you to the conclusion that Thomas had two wives....but
darned if we can find more than one. It may be (as Mrs. Dixon herself says)
that there were two Thomases in there and we are trying to make one guy out
of him; i. e. a Thomas who stayed in Va. (father of Meredith, Sr.) and a
Thomas (son of the above Thomas) who came to GA not only with sons and
daughters but with brothers or cousins.

Lyn, if you will print out that trial chart of Thomas of Dinwiddie that is on
the webpage I think you'll see what we had before Mrs. Dixon came along.
Incidentally, I keep referring to Thomas as "of Dinwiddie" but you will note
in the documentation that the three pieces of hard evidence (VA evidence
anyway) we have about him all say
Brunswick. If he was indeed the same guy who came to Ga. we have a ton more
on him.

We'll probably need constant counsel from you on those counties up there. We
are beginning to figure out that the "people" hardly ever moved, the ground
underneath them just kept changing its name....but not always. What we use
is a great 17 x 11 parchment type paper 55+ pages "progressive" atlas of
Virginia's counties done by a guy named Michael Doran. It sells for 25 bucks
or so (or used to) I think and my guess is that list-member Scott Craig
probably has it in his bookstore if you're interested.

6) I'll put you a copy of Bolling Batte's Chart of Early Poythress Family in
Virginia....
it is only the schematic for the text that is already on the webpage but
unless one is a rocket scientist looking at the schematic at the same time
one is reading the text makes all the difference in the world.

I'm brain dead....will send you more later...don't hesitate to jump right in
an ask anybody anything. We're all accustomed to it by now.

And again, we sincerely are looking forward to your participation. We may
just eventually crack this stuff and get ourselves all the way back to
Francis yet.

Best,

Maynard		06/25/1997 10:31:04
Pat & Maruice CreweAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pat sent me the following brief bio statement fairly recently. I held it
for a bit thinking that we might create a section on the web page to list
brief bio statements about list subscribers -- in particular, the sorts of
research interests we have. After some back channel messages with several
of our "ancient subscribers" concerning privacy issues, etc. I have decided
to delay that project for a bit. It might be possible for me to set
something up with a password so that only our list members could gain
access. I'm not sure just yet. I do know that it is helpful for the new
subscribers (and we have quite a few in recent weeks) to know a little
something about the others on the list. Lyn Baird's recent bio was
wonderful -- as is the one you're about to see below.

In a separate post I'm sending out an edited version of our previous bio
summaries. I invite all new subscribers and those I may have missed to post
a brief statement with your name, email address, a description of your
current research interests and anything generic you'd like to share about
yourself and/or your family. I'll add the new information to the compiled
listing so that I have something to share with new subscribers. Fair
enough? No obligation here -- submit something only if you are comfortable
doing so. Thanks, Al Tims

Without further delay -- Pat & Maurice Crewe:
A combined CV from Berkshire!
Pat & Maurice Crewe now living in Bracknell, Berkshire, England due to its
proximity to the Meteorological Office where Maurice earns his corn as
manager of the National Meteorological Library and Archive, at least until
February 1998 when he becomes a retired meteorologist. I have been
disabled for nearly 20 years with rheumatoid arthritis, so have more time
than
Maurice for family history, and have been involved with transcribing the
1881
census for Middlesex and the 1851 census for Gloucestershire..
We have a daughter living in London and working as a computer systems
manager. She is not as yet very interested in the family history - but
that might
come with age!
We are tracking all lines and although Poythress is not one of our main
lines of
research we have long been intrigued by the variety of spellings. The
Poythress connection is that I am descended from Anne Poytress who married
John Pates in 1838 in Cheltenham. From them we are fairly confident of
the
line back to Christopher & Elianor Poythress of Taynton near Newent in the
1640s.		06/25/1997 12:05:04
RE: A FribbleJames L. PooleHey, Maynard, you're talking 'bout my folks now! The
Pettipool/Pettypoole/P'Pool tribe has been traced to England (London &
environs) in the mid 1500's. There is a great deal of speculation that
before that they were from somewhere in France. They spelled their name
Pettypoole MOST of the time prior to coming to America about 1680. The
original immigrant was one William Pettipool, who came as an indentured
servant. They were pretty obscure until the early 1700's when they began
to multiply. Sometime around the Revolutionary War, the name began to be
abbreviated to P'Pool (occasionally one will find the name spelled P Pool
in the records). There still are some P'Pools around, but most decided to
just go with the flow and further abbreviated the name to Pool or Poole in
the mid to late 1800's. There were "real" Pools and Pooles also in the
early Colonial Virginia records, and they should not be confused with the
Pettipools/P'Pools (who can now be thought of as the "pretenders."

Throughout the early to mid 1700's they were concentrated in Prince George,
Dinwiddie, Brunswick, Lunenburg, and Mecklenburg counties, and they seemed
to not be bashful about going to court over the most trivial of matters
(thank goodness!) (I have five "chapters" explaining all this, Maynard,
with additional chapters covering the allied families [private "joke" for
the rest of the list]).

Lou POOLE

-----Original Message-----
From: VKRatliff@aol.com [SMTP:VKRatliff@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 1997 11:31 PM
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: A Fribble

All of us poking about for Poythress records can't help but see the name

P'pool P'Pool P'poole P'Poole.

I never bothered to ask but I suppose I just speculated that it was some
kind
of weird gaelic contraction and didn't give it any further thought.

In NGS archives, however, the name is even more prominent but interspersed
among all of the above are Pettypool and Pettipool. Have I just been
looking
at an abbreviation all along?

Maynard		06/26/1997 4:20:01
John Carter Poythress and my friend James W. Exum my ExecutorsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The subject line is from the 1832 will of George Poythress of Jackson
County, Florida. Barbara Poythress Neal transcribed this for us and
submitted it to our web page.

When Barbara Neal sent this to us back in mid-May I knew that I had seen
the Exum surname before. I poked around in my Mecklenburg records, etc.
and never found the connection. That is until this afternoon when I was
taking another look at the Portis surname in early Isle of Wight County
records. Sure enough, the Exum surname was all over the place -- including
at least one in connection with John Portis. (No, my imagination is not
taking over -- I make no case here that the Portis families moved to
Georgia and changed their names to Poythress just cause it is so much
prettier.). However, I did find a study of the Exum family done by Boddie
and it does have them moving into the Carolinas and Alabama. Boddie's
study is somewhat limited, but it gives enough information to suggest that
the Exum and Poythress family might have been part of the migration.

I have no idea if this will mean anything, one way or another -- in the
long run.

Al Tims		06/26/1997 6:00:35
Charles CleatonAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

We don't know nearly enough about the Cleaton family. If anyone knows the
relevance of the following -- it will be Barbara Poythress Neal.

Do we have Charles P. Cleaton or ../to Charles P. Cleaton, Catharine
Rainey late Cleaton in right of the said Catharine Thomas Cleaton, Benjamin
Tanner and Elizabeth his wife late Cleaton in right of the said Elizabeth,
Jesse Rose and Edney his wife late Cleaton in right of the said Edny,
William B. Cleaton and Parasade Cleaton, children of Elizabeth Cleaton late
Barner.....

Any of these folks ring any bells?

Best,
Al Tims

CHANCERY PROCEEDING - CLEATON, Charles P. - Court for November 27, 1826.
Suit in Chancery. Harrison Barner and John Barner and others, plaintiffs
against Joseph H. Travis and Wm. F. Brodnax, Executors of John Barner,
defendants. This day this cause was docketed and came on to be heard on the
bill answer and exhibits heretofore filed in this cause and it appearing to
the court that the order of publication as to the absent defendants,
Benjamin Marrable and Lucy, his wife, has been regularly inserted in the
public newspaper and posted at the front door of the courthouse of this
county according to the order heretofore made in this court by this court
It is decreed and ordered that John Taylor, John B. Thrower, Richard R.
Browse, Robert Jones and James Seward or any three of them do divide the
slaves and the estate owned by John Barner the Elder to his wife for life
and which were not otherwise specifically disposed of equally between the
devisees of the testator that is to say that they allot to William Harwell,
Elizabeth P. Baugh late Harwell, Joseph Harwell, Martha Harwell, wife of
Samuel Harwell, Rebecca J. Dorch late Harwell, Nancy Clauswell, late
Harwell, John B. Harwell, Caroline A. Harwell, Mary Harwell and Richard
Harwell one fifth they being the children of Rebecca Harwell late Barner,
to Charles P. Cleaton, Catharine Rainey late Cleaton in right of the said
Catharine Thomas Cleaton, Benjamin Tanner and Elizabeth his wife late
Cleaton in right of the said Elizabeth, Jesse Rose and Edney his wife late
Cleaton in right of the said Edny, William B. Cleaton and Parasade Cleaton,
children of Elizabeth Cleaton late Barner, one fifth to James Hicks, John
B. Hicks, Isaac Hicks and Francis B. Hicks, sons of Tabetha Hicks late
Barner, one fifth and on fifth to Judith Pittello wife of Littleton
Pittello which said fifth is allotted her for life and to revert to all her
children after her children and to Benjamin and Lucy Marable late Barner,
the remaining fifth according to the will of the testator in kind if it can
be effected and make report thereof in order to a final decree.

Order Book 31, page 381, Brunswick County, Virginia		06/26/1997 7:14:51
Charles CleatonCharles NealAl,

I am not the Cleaton expert; for that I bow to Bud & Maynard. I do have
one Cleaton who is connected to the Preston side of my part of the
Poythress clan, whose name I've not yet tracked and I don't recall having
seen it anywhere else than my family's records: John Cleaton. John
married Nelly Preston in Oct. 1822, PROBABLY IN Brunswick Co, where
Nellie/Nelly had been born 17 Sep 1798. I also have a photo of a Ned
Cleaton, not further identified that was with Nellie's sister's, Catherine
Preston POYTHRESS' photos.

That's it for my Cleaton knowledge;)

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
6/26/97		06/26/1997 8:07:56
Va. Marriages 1700-1799Below just for your research file if you're keeping one.

By no means all of ours....but Mr. McDonald fills up 9 volumes single spaced
so he has a million of them. Some old friends in here but some brand new
faces I had never heard of:

Some Virginia Marriages
1700-1799

By: Cecil D. McDonald

(9
volumes)

Volume 4

1. Bland, Richard m. Susanna Poythress, 24 December 1787, Prince George
County.

Volume 7

1. Poythress, Hardener and Elizabeth Golder, 13 October 1789, Prince
George County.

Volume 8

1. Atkinson, Roger Jr. and Agnes Poythress, 20 September 1788, Prince
George County.

Volume 9

1. Poythress, William and Elizabeth Bland, 8 May 1787, Princess Anne
County.

2. Poythress, Charles and Catharine Crawford, 9 Apr 1739, Chesterfield
County.		06/26/1997 9:36:07
Some Ga. Marriages 1811-1820By Mary Bondurant Warren, Editor
Heritage Papers
Danielsville, GA 30633

Bud....here's one for you, and anyone else chasing those guys in early
Georgia:

Poythress, Joseph m. King, Mary; 24 Apr 1814, Warren County.

I sure don't have this one...or even a family to logically hook him to. He
doesn't look to be one of ours. I'm beginning to believe Thomas James (or
whomever was the Pied Piper) took the entire crowd of them out of
Dinwiddie/Mecklenburg/Brunswick except for Lewis who stayed home.

Maynard		06/26/1997 9:36:08
Note From John BairdAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

With Lyn Baird and the John Baird below coming on the scene at roughly the
same time I have a sense of elation and confusion :-).

John sent me the following note in which he mentions several of you. I
will respond to him with the information he requests and ask about his
problems with the hyperlinks. I'll also urge him to join our mailing list.
Those of you mentioned below should feel free to contact John directly if
you so desire.

Best,

Al Tims
-----------------
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:50:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Johncbaird@aol.com
To: Albert R Tims
Al:
Thanks again for your message. How many subscribers do you have? I'll have
to
drop some that I've signed on or spend all day on the computer. I seemed to
have misplaced your earlier message giving me the E Mail address. Would you
please send it again. I did access your URL but could not get the
hyperlinks
to work. I would be interested in the Speed Family member and also in Lyn
Baird from Brunswick County. I have limited data on John Baird & Co. It
is
mostly info taken from DB;s pf Dinwiddy and Prince George Counties. I am
not
sure just which John operated the Co and if he is also the originator of
the
John Baird House in Petersburg.
Keep in touch		06/26/1997 9:58:21
Poythress - IrbyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re the following from Lou Poole. Do any of you have a sense of the
Poythress - Irby relationships. See below the mention of Edmund Irby, Sr.
& Jr. from 1726. We also have a record from Prince George County court
records (Court Held 13 Feb 1738)

Page 244. On complaint of William Poythress, one of the orphans of John
Poythress of Jordans, dec'd who was bound to Robert Empson; for misusage,
he is discharged from apprenticeship, and chose Charles Irby his guardian.

[Note: Edmund Irby, Sr.'s will (1733) establishes that Edmund, Jr. and
Charles (named above) were brothers -- Charles appearing to be the third
born son.]

I wonder why this young William Poythress was not in the care of the
Poythress family. Anyone have any clues?

Best,
Al

Lou wrote to Jean Spille ---
> > "3 Littlebury Hardyman; b. about 1700, was a resident of Martin's
Brandon
> > Parish, Prince George County, on 13 November 1722 when John and
Henrietta Maria
> > Hardyman conveyed to him 261 acres on Harris' Run, married Judith ____
and
> > left will 19 September 1726 - 8 November 1726, which named his wife
Jude
> > executrix, left his wearing apparel to his brother William Hardyman,
and gave
> > one shilling apiece to each of his brothers and sisters, but did not
name them.
> > Edmund Irby, Sr. and Jr., were witnesses to the will. Judith Hardyman
> > apparently moved to New Kent County where in 1728 and 1729 two Negroes
> > belonging to her were baptized."		06/26/1997 12:02:51
Scottish RecordsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Picked up the following announcement from the Wessex-Plus list. I believe
this might be of general interest -- especially for allied family lines.

Cheers,
Al Tims

The Scottish Record Office is making its indexes available online.
I've copied complete newspaper report from the Glasgow Herald of today 23
June and reproduced it below. Don't direct any questions to me, I only
know what's in the article, but it should interest anyone with Scottish
roots.

"AMERICANS eager to discover their Scots roots will soon he able to trace
their ancestors from the comfort of their homes through the Internet.
Staff at New Register House, Edinburgh, where the details of all births,
marriages and deaths of everyone in Scotland are kept, say they are
constantly besieged by tourists wishing to trace the Scottish side of
their family trees. They say a limited number of public access seats to
the records means many Scots are unable to carry out searches because of
the number of tourists using the files.
They say many tourists who come to Scotland claim they are torn between
visiting the sights and sitting in stuffy New Register House. Now
computer experts have been hired to make details of all births, deaths
and marriages in Scotland accessible via the Internet, Once the Internet
web site is launched, it is hoped that people living anywhere in the
world will access the pages. People will be charged for the subsequent
search and it is hoped the scheme will prove to be 'very profitable.
Records enterprise manager John Mackay said: "Tracing ancestors seems to
be becoming more and more popular as is using the Internet so we decided to
combine the two."..Mr Mackay said initially only details of birth, marriage
and death certificates from the
years 1855 to 1896 would be available on the Internet, However, plans were
under way to have all parish registers between 1553 and 1854 added, along
with census details from 1891 and 1881. Mr Mackay said: "We have decided at
this stage not to put any details of births, deaths, and marriages that
have occurred in the past 100 years on the Internet as we
appreciate some people may not want their details sent across the world.
The web site is expected to be up and running by September."

Now if only they'd put the bdm records online at Myddleton Place (ex-St.
Catherine's House) in London!!		06/26/1997 12:11:40
P'Pool, etc.Lou Poole:

Hey, thanks for the lesson. If they all got crammed into Lunenburg,
Meckenburg,
Dinwiddie, Prince George, and Brunswick....shoot, no wonder I had begun to
believe 10% of the folks in the world had that name.

With respect to your comment that they turned prolific, I just checked the
Louisville phone book and there are four (surely some kin to each other but
nothing in the listings that would make that jump out at you). I'll suggest
that 4 in a phone book with probably 300,000 listings is a fairly high
density....implying that "turning prolific" was certainly not overstating the
case.

Hey, thanks for the information and comments. I am more enlightened today
than I was yesterday.....always a worthwhile cause for a before dinner adult
beverage!

Maynard		06/27/1997 3:48:33
Amelia Co. Va. Deed BooksAmelia County, Va.
Deed Books Abstracts

Book 1, pg. 202
Deed. Joshua Glass of Prince George Co. (Va.) to Walter Childs. D. Sept.
13, 1739. Consid: 16L. Wit: Peter Wynne, John Poythress & Charles Anderson.
200 acres, bounded in part by, etc......

Book 7, pg. 361
Deed. Jun. 19, 1760 from Matthew Ornsby of A, to William Glascock of
Dinwiddie County, for 100L, a certain tract of land of about 400 acres in A.
on both sides of Butterwood Cr and bounded by John Lewis, Haynes, North
Branch, George Lewis, Steger, Hood. Signed - Matthew Ornsby. Wit-
Francis Poythress, John Poythress, James Hinton, John Hightower, Jr., Edmund
Poythress. Recorded Nov. 27, 1760.

Book 7, pg. 583
April 21. 1762 from Charles Connally of Nottoway Parish in A. to Robert
Williams of same, for 40L, all that tract of land lying in Nottoway Parish
and A. containing 200 acres of land lying
between......Poythress......Recorded
April 22, 1762.

Book 8, pg. 326
April 23, 1764 from William Cryer Sr. of Dinwiddie County, to William Cryer
Jr. of A, for 5 shillings and for other good causes, all that tract of land
of about 570 acres on the south side of Tommahitton Swamp in A, and bounded
by John York.....Joseph Poythress. Recorded April 26, 1764.

Book 8, pg. 435
May 21, 1764 from Robert Williams and Mary, his wife, of St. Andrews Parish &
Brunswick County, to Dibdale Holt of Nottoway Parish and A, for 60L, a
certain tract of land of 200 acres in Nottoway Parish & A, and bounded by
Peter Poythress,......Recorded Sep. 27, 1764.

Book 9, pg. 150
May 18, 1767 from Phillip Stone of Dobbs County, North Carolina, to William
Manire of A, for 85L and for divers other good causes, a certain tract of
land in A and bounded by Nottoway River, Poythris, Dibdalls Holt, etc....
Recorded Jun. 25, 1767.

Book 9, pg. 298
Amelia County to wit. To Peter Poythress & John Poythress, Gent., greeting.
Peter Leath, by his deed of August, 1766 sold to Peter Randolph of Prince
George County, a certain tract of land of about 400 acres in A on Leath�s Cr.
Eliza , the wife of said Leath cannot conveniently travel to our county to
make....

Book 9, pg. 348
Mar 18, 1768 from William Manere of A, to Joseph Harper, Jr. of Dinwiddie
County, for 63L,15shillings, all that tract of land in A, 170 acres bounded
by the County line, Daniel�s Branch......Poythress. Recorded Jun 23, 1768.

Transcribed June 24, 1997
MP		06/27/1997 3:49:20
Laurens County, Ga.Laurens County, Georgia
Legal Records 1807-1832

Deed Book F
March 10, 1818. Benjamin Chaires, Green H. Chaires, and Thomas P. Chaires,
all of Pulaski County, sold to George Poythress of Burke County.
1st L. D., L. L. # 189, 53 acres of L. L. # 204, 84 acres of L. L. # 205, 146
acres of L. L. # 206, and 37 acres of L. L. # 207. Total of 523 acres.
$ 3000.00. William M. Craig, William Godrey & Thomas Moore were witn.

Deed Book F
February 4, 1818. Chase affidavit, before Maryland Chief Justice of Court of
Appeals Jeremiah T. Chase, affirming his sale of land to George Poythress on
same date. Also noted that Matilda Chase renounced her right of dower to the
land.

Deed Book H
December 29, 1821. Charles S. Guyton, Sheriff of Laurens County, sold to
Amos Love of Laurens. 18th L. D., L. L. # 127. $ 61.00. This sheriff sale
the
result of execution out of Justice Court in the case of Esaias Fountain vs
Benjamin W. Faircloth. Witnesses George Poythress and Justice of Inferior
Court John Guyton.

Deed Book H
December 29, 1821 Charles S. Guyton, Sheriff of Laurens County, sold to Amos
Love of Laurens. 1/2 acre of lot on Gaines Street in town of Dublin, etc.
Wit. George Poythress.

Superior Court Minutes Book C
May 1, 1823. Next term jurors cont. were George W. Daniel......George
Poythress,.....

Superior Court Minutes Book C
May 1, 1824. Next term jurors cont. were John Hudson...George Poythress,
etc.

Superior Court Minutes Book D
May, 1827 Next term jurors were Winfield Wright....George Paythress....etc.

Inferior Court Minutes for Ordinary Purposes
June, 1825. This previous sheriff allowed $ 6.50 for taking Edward Poythress
to Irwinton jail.

Deed Book H
October 14, 1823. Uriah Kinchen, Sheriff of Laurens county, sold to Hugh
McCall. Slaves Bachus, John, Roof, Cato, Peter, Sally, Aggy, Fanny,
extensive furniture, and 200 volumes of books, many named. This sheriff
sale was a result of Superior Court execution in case of Curtis Bolton and
Co. vs Thomas McCall. $ 1887.00. George Poythress was attorney for Hugh
McCall. Witnesses Eli Warren and Neill Monroe.

Deed Book G
December 17, 1822. James Boston and his wife Sarah Boston and Sarah Morgan,
all of Scrivin County, sold to Peter Adams of Laurens County. 1st
L. D., L. L. # 252, originally drawn by James Boston, Sr. of Effingham
County. $ 100.00 Witnesses Cleaton Poythress and Scriven County Justice of
Peace Hope Brannen. [MP note: Hope Brannen m. Elizabeth Poythress, daughter
of Meredith Poythress, Sr. and sister of Cleaton Poythress]

Deed Book K
January 22, 1821. Charles S. Guyton, Sheriff, sold to Amos Love. 2nd L. D.
of L. L. # 272. $ 21.50. This sheriff sale, etc..... Witnesses: George
Poythress and Justice of Inferior Court John Guyton.

Subpoena Docket 1811-1825
November, 1825. Plaintiff was Robinson. Defendant was George M. Troup.
Witness was George Poythress.

Subpoena Docket 1826-1846
November, 1826. Plaintiffs were Jacob Robinson and Isaac Robinson. George
M. Troup was defendent. George Poythress was witness for the plaintiffs.

Deed Book F
August 10, 1819. Taylor affidavit, before Justice of Peace H. Rausian,
attesting to the Taylor to Poythress land sale of August, 1819.

Inferior Court Minutes for Ordinary Purposes, 1808-1828
June, 1823. Thomas was allowed $ 43.12 for jail fees of Edward Poythress who
was acquitted. Also allowed $ 27.18 for jail fees of William Davis,
acquitted.

Inferior Court Minutes for Ordinary Purposes, 1808-1828
May, 1824. Court approved payment of $ 36.00 to past jailor for jail fees of
Edward Poythress.

Deed Book H
January 22, 1821. Charles S. Guyton, sheriff, sold to Amos Love. 2nd L. D.
of L. L. # 295. $ 21.00. This sheriff sale result of, etc. Witnesses
George Poythress and Justice of the Inferior Court John Guyton.

Deed Book H
December 29, 1821. Charles S. Guyton, Sheriff of Laurens County, sold to
Amos Love of Laurens. 1/2 acre of lot on Gaines Street in town of Dublin
where Simeon Woodson formerly lived. $ 5.00. This sale the result of
execution...etc. Wit. George Poythress.

Transcribed June 25, 1997
MP		06/27/1997 3:49:30
Amelia Co. Va. Order Book 20OB 20:459 Samuel Jordan Assignee of Robert Poythress Plt vs Edward Blair
admr in the right of his wife Letice of Nelson Jones decd. Deft: In Debt.
Abates by deft's death. 2 June 1795.

Amelia Co. Va.
Order Book 20
1793-1799		06/27/1997 3:51:04
Lunenburg County, Va.Cumberland Parish Vestry Book
Cumberland Parish
Lunenburg County, Virginia
1746-1816

Marriages:

Feb. 10, 1786 William Poythress & Elizabeth Blair Bland

Dec. 24, 1787 Richard Bland & Susanna Poythress

Transcribed 6/25/97		06/27/1997 3:52:40
New Member and Archive InformationAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'm pleased to tell you that John Baird has decided to join our list. I
suspect John will soon send us a note about his interests. Welcome, John!

Also, since we have a number of new subscribers I'm providing instructions
on how to receive the digests for the list. Note that our old MAISER list
archive files still have not appeared so what we have only goes back
through May.

The instructions below will retrieve ALL the archives. If you want
something fancier, please consult the RootsWeb instruction page at:
http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/members/archives.html

If you'd like to see all the surname mailing lists hosted by RootsWeb
please visit:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~maillist/

Okay, say you want all the digest messages. Follow the directions below.
You'll will receive a series of digest versions of the message postings
(numbered sequentially).

Send an email addressed to:
POYTHRESS-D-request@rootsweb.com

In the subject line type:
archive

In the body of the message type:

archive maxfiles 19
get volume97/*

If you would prefer to get all of the individual messages (rather than the
digests) you'd send the following message to:

POYTHRESS-L-request@rootsweb.com

In the subject line type:
archive

In the body of the message type:
get latest/*

-----------------------------------
Let me know if you have any problems.

Best,

Al Tims		06/27/1997 3:56:01
Re: Charles CleatonAl and BPN,

I just picked up on on "subject individual" from Barbara's message of 6/26th
and I haven't seen any earlier message on him....... Did I miss a mailing
earlier or something? So I'm not sure just what the question/s is/are?

In any event, I don't have anything on a "Charles Cleaton"; the only Cleaton
data I have relates to Edith Cleaton's familyl - the Edith Cleaton who
married Meredith Poythress, 7/14/1871 in Mecklenburg County, VA.

Edith's parents were William Cleaton (b. ? d. 1795 ot 96) and wife Jane
(Poole) Cleaton, (d/o William and Elizabeth [Watson] Poole).

William Cleaton's Will, was dated 11/12/1791 (recorded 4/11/1796 -
Mechlenburg County, VA). Edith, was one of 9 children names in his will:
namely - 1) John Cleaton; 2) Thomas Cleaton; 3) Mary Cleaton; 4) Martha
Cleaton; then the married ones: - 5) Jeane Cleaton Giles; 6) Edith
Cleaton Poythress; 7) Lucy Cleaton Mathews; 8) Judith Cleaton Wilkinson;
and
9) Nancy Cleaton Pointer; and a grandson Woodly Cleatopn..

Another interesting note on William Cleaton, was that "in 1779 William
Cleaton conveyed 200 acres of land on Great ___?___ to a Poythress Cleaton."
And further, this Poythress Cleaton's estate was inventoried and appraised
on 9/26/1783 and recorded 8/9/1784. It seem this Poythress Cleaton had
business connections to or/with Brunswick County per British Mercantile
Claims records. I never was able to learn anything further on this
character with a first name of "Poythress".

Maybe this might be of some help..... Hope so anyway.

******************************************

And Al, Re: Old Queries -- New Answers about the "orphans of Thomas" -- in
searching through all "my Kathy Best's reports" I fine 'NO' listing of actual
names associated with the "orphans of Thomas Poythress of Burke County" named
in the 1807 GA Land Lottery. However, since 'our' Thomas Poythress the
sheriff, died in 1800, and besides probably would have been too old to have
left small children, they must have been the children of "Thomas James
Poythress, Jr." who, per Mrs Dixon's report, died "before 1803"! Nor do I
find any mention on what happened to them.

And I find no mention of orphans of "Francis P. of Richmond County" who Mrs
Glass refers to as having left orphans in Burke, Hancock or any other County?
Still possible I guess though.

And again, just for the sake of adding more confusion -- how many Thomases
do we now have ------ here (GA) -------, there (VA) ------ or in between?

Sorry I don't have any better news to report.

Our best,

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.com - June 27, 1997 9:27AM)		06/27/1997 7:37:56
Robert Poythress -- Gamblin' ManAlbert R. TimsHello, Poythress List:

Don't let the first few lines below fool you -- this is a good story about
Robert Poythress!

Enjoy,

John Wormeley, plt. against Benjamin Hicks, Deft. In Detinue. Discontinued
for want of Prosecution.
Benjamin Hicks at the Suit of John Wormeley, In Detinue.

The Deposition of Benjamin Williams. Greensville County State of Virginia
24th of August 1782, Benjamin Williams of Amelia County being first duly
sworn by John Lucas a Justice for said County on the holy Evangelists
deposeth and saith That as well as he can remember in May 1772 he was at
Northumberland Courthouse attending on a Horse of Peter Stoner's which he
rode against a Horse of John Wormeley's and in the course of the Week,
Robert Poythress, and John Wormley entered into Card playing and the said
Robert Poythress won of John Wormley a large quantity of Tobacco to the
amount of Twenty or Twenty two thousand weight but believes it was twenty
two thousand and in a few days after in my presence, John Wormley offered
his negroe man Dick for sale to Robert Poythress in discharge of the said
tobacco, which said Wormley had lost with said Poythress on condition that
Robert Poythress would let the fellow stay with his Horse untill the race
was Run as he said he could not do well without him. Soon after that at
Muse's Store about four hundred yards from the Courthouse the said
Poythress asked the said negroe Dick whether he would be willing to serve
him, as his master had offered him for Sale, Dick agreed to go if he was to
be sold; After that Robert Poythress applied to John Wormley to buy the
fellow that he had offered and in my presence John Wormley made answer, you
shall have the fellow as I proposed Pointing towards the Negroe Dick, and
said there he is, he is yours, which Poythress agreeed to; but I must have
the fellow said Wormley until after my race is run as I first observed.
Robert Poythress's answer was if he would be of a any service to you until
then you are welcome to him until then; but what the price was that Robert
Poythress was to give I do not remember but from what I could understand
from them, the Negroe was to pay the Debt won of Wormley, and whatsoever
was done after I never heard whether Wormley delivered the Negroe or not;
untill he was called on by Benjamin Hicks as a Witness, And further this
deponent saith not. "John Lucas" This Deposition ordered to be recorded on
the motion of the said Benjamin Hicks. Court for September 26, 1782.

Order Book 1, page 43, Greensville County, Virginia		06/27/1997 10:35:08
Wall -- Not HallAlbert R. TimsHi folks,

It is the Wall family -- not the Hall family the Lou Poole represents. I
apologize for my previous note in which I make reference to the Hall
family. I have no idea what I was thinking. Again, I'm very sorry.

As you see below, the Hicks, WALL and Ransom connection is clearly evident.

Will of Richard Ransom of St. Andrews Parish, dated June 27, 1748 and
proved October 6, 1748. Will Book 2, page 153, Brunswick County, Virginia

Directed slaves, Anaren, Lucy and Peter, now in the possession of his
father in Gloucester County, to be sold. Wife, Frances Ransone. Sons, James
Ransone and Robert Hicks Ransom. All rest of estate to be equally divided
among my three children, James, Robin, and Elizabeth. Friends, Col. John
WALL and Col. Nathaniel Edwards, named as Executors and as guardians of my
two sons. . .and desire they may have bound apprentices. . .when they come
to the age of sixteen years. Witnesses were Samuel Bennett and John Wall,
Jr.		06/28/1997 2:43:23
RAINEYI'll apologize in advance for sending this to the group. I was reading the
bio's and noticed that one subscriber was researching the RAINEY family. I
accidently hit the delete key and lost the message. In my line of Baird's,
Eliza Partridge Baird b. 28 Mar 1818 at Kittrell, NC married 20 Oct 1836 in
Mecklenberg County VA to THOMAS HALL RAINEY, b. 29 Sep 1814 d. 1 Aug 1812 in
NC. They had 15 children: Mary Archer; Charles William; Hal; Alice; Lucy
SPEED; George Hall; Sarah Alice; Harriett Elizabeth; Anna Eliza; Laura
Thomas; Thomas Hansard; Cora Partridge; Rosa Vairginia and Richard Beverly
Rainey. If the individual who is tracing this line recognizes any of these
names, please get in touch with me.
John		06/28/1997 8:05:38
Lunenburg County, Va.Lunenburg County, Virginia
Deed Book Abstracts

Deed Book 6...1760-1761 Pgs. 534-5
21 October 1761 James Heath to Joseph Morton, both of Lunenburg County,
30L, 160 acres; Lunenburg Co., where Heath now lives, adj. William Portress.
Sig: James Heath
Wit: Thos. Wren, William Morton, Vincent Wren.
Rec: 1 December 1761

Deed Book 8...1762-1764 Pgs. 288-291
2 Feb 1764- Leonard Claiborne of Dinwiddie Co. to Richard Claiborne & Wm.
Claiborne, deed of memorandum (trust) secured by Claiborne�s 615 +
34 acres, Lunenburg Co., branches Stoney Crk., by patent Leod. Claiborne Jnr.
& by him conveyed to Leonard Claiborne Senr., adj. Green, Caudle, new lines,
Mason, Jarrett, Gee; also 34 acres adj. above land by patent Leod. Claibourne
Junr. & conveyed to Leonard Claiborne Senr.
Wit: Charles Hamlin, Barbar Claiborne,
Thomas Poythress, Peter Corbin Sig: Leod. Claibourne
Rec: 13 Sept 1764

Deed Book 11...1767-1771 Pgs. 293-295
21 Feb 1769 - John Lanthrope of Lunenburg Co. to John Poythress of Prince
George County, d/trust 38L,10shillings due 21 Feb 1770, secured by
Lanthrope�s 248 acres; Lunenburg Co., Cumberland Par.,adj. John Parker, John
Stegall, John Wright, Stony Crk.
Wit: John Ballard Junr., Jere. Bailey Sig: John (x) Lanthrope
Jno. Flood Edmunds, Sterling Edmunds John Poythress
Rec: 14 Sep 1769		06/28/1997 8:42:49
Re: POCKRUS!-a Potress?Marion & Helene PockrusYou mean someone actually deletes Poythress Files? If there is a
connection I want them all!
Helene

----------
> From: Johncbaird@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: RAINEY
> Date: Saturday, June 28, 1997 8:05 PM
>
> I'll apologize in advance for sending this to the group. I was reading
the
> bio's and noticed that one subscriber was researching the RAINEY family.
I
> accidently hit the delete key and lost the message. In my line of
Baird's,
> Eliza Partridge Baird b. 28 Mar 1818 at Kittrell, NC married 20 Oct 1836
in
> Mecklenberg County VA to THOMAS HALL RAINEY, b. 29 Sep 1814 d. 1 Aug 1812
in
> NC. They had 15 children: Mary Archer; Charles William; Hal; Alice; Lucy
> SPEED; George Hall; Sarah Alice; Harriett Elizabeth; Anna Eliza; Laura
> Thomas; Thomas Hansard; Cora Partridge; Rosa Vairginia and Richard
Beverly
> Rainey. If the individual who is tracing this line recognizes any of
these
> names, please get in touch with me.
> John		06/28/1997 8:50:57
Amelia County, Va. WB #1Amelia County Virginia
Will Book #1, pg. 233

Jones, Major Peter, 1753, will probated 1759; names executors, his friends,
Richard Jones, Jr., Peter Jones (son of Major Richard Jones) and Edward
Jones....etc.
Wit: William Poythress
Thomas Williams
Richard Jones, Sr.

Transcribed 6/25/97 MP		06/28/1997 9:30:09
Burned Record Counties of VirginiaFirst time I think I have seen these published by county and by date saying
just what is missing from when and to when: (listed only the counties of our
interest)

CHARLES CITY - created in 1634 as an original shire. Many records were
destroyed
badly damaged or stolen during the civil war.

DINWIDDIE - created in 1752 from Prince George. All records prior to 1833
were
destroyed in 1864.

HENRICO - created in 1634 as an original shire. All records prior to 1655
and most
records prior to 1677 were destroyed during the
Revolutionary War.

JAMES CITY - created as an original shire. Jamestown Island is in James City
County. All records destroyed in 1865.

PRINCE GEORGE - created in 1703 from Charles City. Almost all records were
destroyed by fire during the Civil War.

MP		06/28/1997 9:30:18
Some Marriage Records-Burned Counties18 April 1826 Harrison, Braxton & Camilla A. M. Johnson. Security: Thomas
E. Poythress (Charles City County Marriage License).

I would like to claim this Thomas as the immediate object of our search but
he seems to be too late and in the wrong place. However, would love to be
proven wrong!

MP		06/28/1997 9:30:20
Poythress - Ransom - Hall - Hicks: All TogetherAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following 1738 will for Robert Hicks (Hix) should be of interest to Lou
Poole and especially Caroline Cook, not to mention all the rest of us
trying to make sense out of the Brunswick/Mecklenburg Poythress lines.
RELEVANT NAMES MENTIONED: RANSOM, BATTE, (ANNE) POYTHRESS, EDWARDS

This will be a big gulp, so I suggest you print this out and grab something
to drink... .

Enjoy, Al Tims

A couple of contextual notes as preface to the will:

(1) The Hicks (Hix) family connects to the Hall family (I'm sure Lou can
fill us in on this). Lou is trying to establish that Anne Poythress
married a Hall.

(2) Caroline Cook is working on a possible Poythress - Ransom connection
through adoption of orphaned Poythress children. Here we see a possible
link of real importance.

(3) Captain Robert Hicks (later Col.) was associated with Fort Christiana
and was an early trader with the Indian communities in the Carolinas. This
would have put him in likely association with Peter and Robert Poythress.
Below are two excerpts that should interest our history buffs:

Alexander Spotswood, Her Majestys Lieutenant Governor, Vice Admiral and
Commander in Chief of the Colony and Diminion of Virginia  To Robert Hix,
John Evans, David Crawley Richard Jones and Nathaniel Irby Whereas Her Most
Sacred Majesty, by her Order in Council, bearing date at the Court at
Windsor, the 26th day of September 1709, hath been pleased to signify her
Royal Will and pleasure, that the Trade from this Colony with the Western
Indians, be carryed on without any Let, hindrance or Molestation
whatsoever, and that no dutys be Leveyed or demanded of any of her
Majestys' Subjects of this Colony for any Goods or Merchandizes which shall
be carryed by them to the said Indians, or back from thense by way of Trade
And Whereas You have represented to me that You are now bound out on a
Trading Voyage to several nations of Indians to the South West of this
Colony, and desired my Passport for your better protection in your going
and returning with your goods and merchandizes, I do therefore, hereby give
and grant unto you full License and Liberty to trade and traffick with any
nation of Indians whatsoever, except the Tuscaroras

October the 29th 1713. Present The Governor, Robert Carter, James Blair,
Henry Duke, J. Smith, J. Lewis, Willm Byrd, Wm fitzhugh, Wm Cocke, Esqrs. .
. . Capt Robert Hix Commander of the detachment sent out for discovery of
the Indian Settlements on the Frontiers of this Collony, this day attended
the Governor in Council & brought with him two Great men of the Tuscoruro
Town called Tyahooka whom he found with a great body of that Nation on
Roanoak River & the said Indians being examined touching the cause of their
coming on the Frontiers of this Government & what their intentions are
therein They declared that they were forced to the North side of Roanoake
River by the So Carolina Indians

(4) The Hicks (Hix) family were very early (1702) neighbors of John
Poythress and Thomas Wynne (see patents below).

Patent to John POYTHRESS, dated October 24, 1702, for 350 acres, Charles
City County, on North side of Nottoway River, for importation of John Lee,
Humphrey Hix, __ Standback, Robert Boroman, Hen: Snotgrooe, Wm: Lambred,
and Mary Driv?, running thence along headline of a tract of 950 acres
patented by Hugh Lee Junr. (and by him sold to William Jones, Senr., Robert
HIX the Taylor Senr., and John Roberts).  Virginia Patent Book 9, page 396,
page 397.

Patent to Thomas WYN, dated October 24, 1702, for 200 acres, Charles City
County, on Side side of Jones hole swamp and North side of Nottoway River,
for 4 rights paid to Wm. Byrd. adjoining land of Hugh Lee Junr., now in the
possession of William Jones, Robert HIX and John Roberts. Virginia Patent
Book 9, page 406.

(5) The Hicks family has close ties to the Cleaton family (see my
previous note about Charles Cleaton).

(6) This still needs work, but I'm fairly confident that the George HICKS
named below in the deed from Thomas POYTHRESS is of the same Hicks family.

20 Aug 1795. Deed Book Brunswick County: Thomas Poythress of Brunswick
County to George Hicks, for 50 pounds, 85 acres of land. Source: SAR
Magazine July 1928 pg. 61

Below is the will for Robert Hicks mentioned at the outset.

I hope this information, even if not entirely new to some of you, will
stimulate further study of the Hicks/Hall/Poythress/Ransom/Cleaton/Dortch
connections.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Will of Robert HICKS 6 MAR 1738/39

In the name of God Amen I Robert Hicks, Gentleman of the County of
Brunswick in the Colony and dominion of Virginia, Knowing the uncertainty
of human life and being now in perfect health and sound and disposing mind
and memory do judge this the most proper time to make my Last Will and
Testament for the disposing of what Lands Slaves Goods and Chattels I at
the present time am owner of which I do in manner and form as followeth.
Imprimis I acknowledge the Divine Favor and Mercy of God in so safely
conducting and preserving me through all the Dangers to which human Life is
exposed to this present time hoping the same Divine Grace may enable me to
act to the end of my Life as becomes a follower of our Blessed Saviour
Jesus Christ by whose advocacy & mediation with the Father I hope to to be
admitted to eternal salvation. Item I give and bequeath unto my son Charles
Hicks all my land at the Indian Fort below where I know live joining
Captain Nathaniel EDWARDS his lower line and BATTS his line containing 650
acres to him and his heirs forever. Item I give and bequeath unto my
beloved wife Frances Hicks four slaves name Kate, Martha Alias Hatt, Will
and Popper. I also give to my said wife the Bed and Furniture which I now
lie in with my will and Six sheep the best that she can choose out of the
Flock and 4 cows and calves and also my largest iron Pott. Item   I give
and bequeath unto my son James Hicks after the decease of my wife the
plantation whereon I now live being whatever remains of my patent for 2610
acres after the several tracts hereafter given and taken out of the said
patent to him & his heirs forever. I also give unto my said son James one
mulatto boy named Peter being now in the possession of the said James
Hicks. Item I give and bequeath unto my son-in-law Richard RANSOM 150 acres
of land lying in the fork of Reeves his swamp being the plantation whereon
John Hicks lived unto him and his heirs forever. Item I give and bequeath
unto my grandson Benjamin Hicks 150 acres of land lying in the fork of
Reeves his swamp above the land I have given to Richard RANSOM to him and
his heirs forever. Item I give and bequeath unto my son George Hicks a
certain parcel of land joining to what he has already beginning at the
mouth of his pasture branch and running from thence to the persimmon trees
that grow by my haystack to him and his heirs forever. Item I give unto my
son James Hicks my large oval table. Item I give unto my daughter Frances
RANSOM two slaves, Jo and Cesar.  Item I give unto my daughter Martha
Bedingfield a negro girl named Hannah. Item   I give unto my daughter
Elizabeth Hicks two slaves, Will & Amy. Item   I give unto my daughter
Rachel Hicks two slaves, Dick & Judy.   Item   I give unto my son Charles
Hicks my negro Peter and a bed and furniture and that chest which he now
hath. Item   I give unto my daughter Elizabeth one bed and furniture. Item
I give unto my daughter Rachael one bed and furniture. Item I give and
bequeath unto my grandson John Bedingfield all my part of the mill on
Genito's creek to him and his heirs forever. Item I give & bequeath unto my
beloved wife Frances Hicks all the remainder of my estate horses cattle
sheep hogs and household stuff to be entirely at her own disposal. Item I
give unto my two daughters Mary & Tabitha to each a common Bible. Lastly I
nominate constitute and appoint my beloved wife Frances Hicks full and sole
Executrix of this my Last Will and Testament hereby revoking annulling and
making void all former and other wills and testaments whatsoever. In
Witness Whereof I have hereunto set my hand & seal the 6th day of March
Anno Christ 1738/39. Signed by Robert Hicks. Signed and sealed and
acknowledged as the Last Will and Testament of Robert Hicks in the presence
of Anne POYTHRESS, Charles Ross, and John Chapman.		06/28/1997 12:00:25
Children of Lewis PoythressLyn P BairdIn another message I outlined my known relationship to Lewis Poythress of
Mecklenburg Co., Va. Here I offer speculation from my research notes
regarding the children of Lewis. For argument, I start with two
assumptions: 1) all the Mecklenburg-Brunswick Poythresses descended from
Thomas and 2) all descendents of Thomas except the family of Lewis
vacated to Georgia before 1810. In this case the following persons may
be children of Lewis:

Children by Elizabeth Giles (mentioned in Edward Giles will) -
1) John (1794<1802 - ????) married ?
2) Edward (1798 - >1850) married Mahala Nance 1828

Children by Rebecca Taylor -
3) James (1805 >1850) married Catherine ? before 1830
4) David (1806 >1850) married (1) Mary Speed Dortch 1827, (2) Sally ?
before 1850
5) daughter (1810 - >1830) married ?
6) daughter (1815<1820 - >1830) married ?
7) Lewis Y. (1815<1820 - >1846) married Mary C. Ferguson 1846
8) Thomas M. (1823 >1870) married Lucy Thomas before 1846 (from age of
eldest child William)

To repeat, this is only speculation on my part. I have never
intentionally researched the siblings of Thomas M. and have only pieced
together the above scenario from spotty research notes since learning of
the alleged Georgia migration. Some points of supporting evidence follow
in no particular order:

1) Lewis is the only Mecklenburg Poythress in the Supplement to the
Virginia 1810 Census (Mecklenburg being one of the non-censused
counties).
2) Lewis is the only Mecklenburg Poythress I have found in the 1820
Census.
3) I have found no Mecklenburg Poythresses other than the above in Censi
of 1830, 1840 and 1850.
4) In his 1846 deed (Mecklenburg DB31, p605) Lewis references Lewis Y.
and Thomas M. as my two youngest sons, so there were definitely older
sons, probably already established and therefore perhaps much older.
5) In this same deed the land granted Lewis Y. and Thomas M. is adjacent
to that of David Poythress. This ties to the proximity of Lewis to David
in the 1840 census, indicating the granted property is the residence of
Lewis (implied not stated in the deed).
6) Thomas M. and James are immediately adjacent in the 1850 census.
7) Surname Dortch is both spouse of David and surety on marriage of Lewis
Y.
8) Surname Taylor is both spouse of Lewis and surety on marriage of
David.
9) Thomas M. named his son (my great-grandfather) James David, perhaps
after brothers of Thomas M.

Attached (via UUENCODE) is a table (Word 6.0 document) that contains the
core of the analysis, which is primarily based on comparison of census
records. Finally, it should be mentioned that my notes indicate two
Mecklenburg Poythresses that do not seem to fit into this neat
hypothesis: William, who married Ann Bently 1802, and Jack, who mentions
Lewis in his will probated 1819 (Mecklenburg WB8, p465).

Regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com

section 1 of uuencode 5.21 of file lpoythre.doc by R.E.M.

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end
sum -r/size 57665/15663 section (from "begin" to "end")
sum -r/size 50245/11344 entire input file		06/29/1997 1:26:57
Parents and Siblings of Lewis PoythressLyn P BairdIn another message I outlined my known relationship to Lewis Poythress of
Mecklenburg Co., Va. Here I offer speculation from my research notes
regarding the parents and siblings of Lewis. I have long suspected that
Lewis is brother of Meredith, Sr. of Mecklenburg and son of Thomas of
Brunswick, based on the following circumstances of which many of you are
already well familiar:

1) Meredith is surety on Lewis first marriage.
2) Lewis and Meredith are adjacent entries in the 1800 Mecklenburg
personal property tax list.
3) In 1845 Lewis owns land in Mecklenburg Co. adjacent to that of Charles
D. Cleaton, surname of Merediths wife Edith, relationship not yet
researched by me [db 31, p 605, grantor to sons Thomas M. and Lewis Y.].
4) Thomas is the only adult male I have found in either Mecklenburg or
Brunswick during the years immediately prior to Lewis marriage. There
are no Mecklenburg Poythresses in the 1790 Virginia census (actually
taken 1782). Thomas Poythress witnessed Brunswick deeds in 1781 and
1788. Ann Poythress witnessed a Brunswick deed in 1779. Peter Poythress
of Prince George is a Brunswick grantee in 1774. Other than these four
occurrences, there are no other Poythresses in Brunswick Deed Book 14,
which covers recordings of 1780-1790. Note: My research is by no means
yet exhaustive of the public record. I have not searched Mecklenburg
deeds or wills beyond available indices and have not delved into order
books in either county.
5) Lewis named a son Thomas M. The M could initial Meredith, in
which case Lewis could have been including the names of both his father
and his elder brother.

Of course, if either the sibling or parent relationship were established,
the other would follow automatically since Meredith states Thomas to be
his father [Knorrs Brunswick Marriages, p 66].

To the above five circumstances I can now add a sixth, since you have
introduced me to the Georgia connection: My grand-uncle Frank Poythress
on several occasions remarked to my mother that we were related to five
Poythress brothers that had left Virginia and moved to Georgia. One only
needs to modify the story slightly into a memory of five brothers of whom
four moved to Georgia and one stayed behind, and one has a suggestion of
Meredith Sr., George, Thomas James Jr., Edward, and my non-pioneering
ancestor Lewis. We know Lewis to be Franks great-grandfather, so the
tale would not have had many generations to distort excessively.

Regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		06/29/1997 1:26:57
More About LynLyn P BairdTo round out my introduction to you, this message contains what I know
about my Poythress lineage. My research indicates I am the
third-great-grandson of Lewis Poythress. The following indicates the
verified information I had collected prior to association with the list
(all locations in Virginia):

Lewis Poythress
>b. about 1760-1770, maybe in Brunswick Co.; parents unknown
>located to Mecklenburg Co. between 1782 and 1800
>m. (1) Elizabeth Giles, bond 12/26/1792, in Mecklenburg Co.
>m. (2) Rebecca B. Taylor, bond 04/09/1802, in Mecklenburg Co.
>m. (3) Martha E. Walker, 07/1846, in Mecklenburg Co.
>d. after July 1846, likely in Mecklenburg Co.
>burial unknown, maybe in Blackridge area of Mecklenburg Co.

Thomas M. Poythress
>b. about 1823 in Va., likely in Mecklenburg Co.; parents Lewis Poythress
and Rebecca Taylor
>m. Lucy Thomas, before 1846, location unknown
>enlisted 01/20/1862 Company D, 2nd Virginia Artillery Regiment, 22nd
Battalion
>d. after 1870 in Mecklenburg Co.
>buried in family cemetery at 3411 Blackridge Road, Mecklenburg Co.

James David Poythress
>b. 09/15/1856 in Mecklenburg Co.; parents Thomas M. Poythress and Lucy
Thomas
>m. Lucy Cannon Moseley, 11/27/1877, in Brunswick Co.
>d. after 1920 in Brunswick Co.
>buried in Davis-Poythress cemetery in Brodnax, Brunswick Co.

Leonard Talmadge (Len) Poythress
>b. 11/28/1893 in Brunswick Co., Va.; parents James David Poythress and
Lucy Cannon Moseley
>m. Carrie Rebecca Morris, 08/03/1919, in Brunswick Co.
>d. 03/16/1926 in Brodnax, Brunswick Co.
>buried in LaCrosse Cemetery, LaCrosse, Mecklenburg Co.

Beatrice Poythress
>b. 06/04/1920 in Brodnax, Brunswick Co., Va.; parents Leonard Talmadge
Poythess and Carrie Rebecca Morris
m. George William Baird, 06/21/1953, in Brodnax, Brunswick Co.

I also have some speculations to share with you. However, because I
prefer to keep the knowns and unknowns separated, I will send these under
separate cover.

Regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		06/29/1997 1:26:57
Prince George County VA - Records-1733-1792This may be of interest to someone.
15 Aug 1791 James Cureton and Betesy his wife, to John Baird of Prince
George, Merchant, for L 900, a lot in Blandford of 15 acres, being the same
lot said John Baird and Charles Duncan as executors of Robert Poythress,
deceased, with assent of William Mayo, executor of Peter Poythress, deceased,
and Elizabeth Poythress, widow and relict of said Peter, conveyed over to
James Cureton. Witness: Luke Wheeler, William Poythress, Jr., Joseph
Weisiger. Recorded 13 Sep 1791		06/29/1997 1:48:50
Re: Prince George County VA - Records-1733-1792Marion & Helene PockrusThere's another neighboring family to the Pockruses in LA-AR Wheelers who
intermarried with Cochrans as well so the POCKRUS family has to be nearby.
POTRISS-Poykress ?
Helene
----------
> From: Johncbaird@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Prince George County VA - Records-1733-1792
> Date: Sunday, June 29, 1997 1:48 PM
>
> This may be of interest to someone.
> 15 Aug 1791 James Cureton and Betesy his wife, to John Baird of Prince
> George, Merchant, for L 900, a lot in Blandford of 15 acres, being the
same
> lot said John Baird and Charles Duncan as executors of Robert Poythress,
> deceased, with assent of William Mayo, executor of Peter Poythress,
deceased,
> and Elizabeth Poythress, widow and relict of said Peter, conveyed over to
> James Cureton. Witness: Luke Wheeler, William Poythress, Jr., Joseph
> Weisiger. Recorded 13 Sep 1791		06/29/1997 2:06:26
Re: Location of William, Robert & Thomas Poythress Land - 1722Al.....the land survey maps are terrific.

If I am correct that you used that gazateer you and BPN were discussing a
month ago for your "background", I certainly need to get a copy. You have the
details on where to order, does Craig have it?

Again, great job!

Maynard

06/29/1997 3:24:38
Wynnes to GeorgiaAl....I only repeated that story with a raised eyebrow about Col. Robert
Wynne (m. Mary Poythress) taking his stepsons with him to Georgia.

I have considered Jeanette Holland Austin's Wynne chapter in "The Georgians"
to be fairly definitive on the Wynne crowd, at least with respect to the ones
of them that went to Georgia. Mrs. Austin's account, I believe, is also well
respected in the genealogy community. She does not try to make that case.

Only place I have questioned Mrs. Austin is when she says of Joshua Wynne's
four children (Joshua, Thomas, Robert & Mary) that Mary m. John Woodleif.
Wouldn't we be inclined to say that if the John Woodleif is the same man
that he married Mary Poythress, daughter of John Poythress and not Mary
Wynne?

I can post that whole chapter if you think it would be of interest. Its not
all that long.

Maynard

06/29/1997 3:43:27
Re: Location of William, Robert & Thomas Poythress Land - 1722Albert R. TimsMaynard,

Yep, I'm pretty sure Craig carries the DeLorme Virginia Atlas & Gazetteer.
I picked my copy up at the "Map Store" in St. Paul for $16.95. A real
bargan. If Craig and the Louisville merchants fail you, then just call
207-865-4171 and ask for the Virginia Altas & Gazetter.

DeLorme also makes a similar map book for North Carolina. I have the USGS
quadrangular for the area and will us it for the actual web page posting
since DeLorme has a "no part may be phootcopied, electronically stored,
etc. without permission" warning. Still, this is a wonderful color atlas.
Think I should preserve the color for the web posts?

Thanks for the feedback. I think I need to have the map cover a somewhat
larger area so it will be easier for viewers to pickup some reference
points.

Thanks,

Al Tims

ps -- The map referenced above is at:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/map1.html

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Location of William, Robert & Thomas Poythress Land - 1722
> Date: Sunday, June 29, 1997 4:24 PM
>
> Al.....the land survey maps are terrific.
>
> If I am correct that you used that gazateer you and BPN were discussing a
> month ago for your "background", I certainly need to get a copy. You have
the
> details on where to order, does Craig have it?
>
> Again, great job!
>
> Maynard		06/29/1997 4:03:12
Location of William, Robert & Thomas Poythress Land - 1722Charles NealAl,

This sounds great!! I really applaud your work on this so far, and would
definitely encourage more work on it. (Now I'll go see if the other
computer might be cooperative and let me actually visit a site to see what
you've done so far.)

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

06/29/1997 5:15:04
Prince George County VA RecordsThis may be of interest to someone.
At a Court held at Fitzgeralds on October 10, 1738. Present: Robert Bolling,
William Starke; William Poythress, Theophilus Field, Gentlemen Justices.

August 14, 1759 William Poythress of Dinwiddie County to Samuel Gordon of Pr
Geo County, Merchant, for L 11. Two lots in the Town of Blanford, one acre,
comprising lots #22 and #40. Wit: John Baird, Patrick Ransey, Robert Mackie.
Livery and Seizin witnessed witnessed by: Jere. Baker, James Clark and
Patrick Ramsey. Recorded August 14 1759

By order of court of Pr Geo Co Mary Binford, widow of Joseph Peeples has been
assigned her third of his estate (L 12/15/3). Whole estate valued at L
38/5/11 July 11, 1759 by George Nobel, Thomas Poythress, Joseph Carter,
Holmes Boisseau. Recorded Oct 9, 1759		06/29/1997 5:55:25
Re: Prince George County VA RecordsAlbert R. TimsJohn & List,

Maynard, Barbara Neal and Barbara Wolfe can testify that I've been on a
BAIRD bandwagon for some time. I'd LOVE to see our new Baird scholars
bring some order to our understanding of John Baird and Benjamin Baird
(Mecklenburg). To that end, perhaps you might consider sending us a post
(something I could put up on the web page) listing the Baird and/or
Baird/Poythress records (or at least some relevant subset). Wouldn't have
to be all at once. I can just start building a file.

The record third item below is EXTREMELY important -- if this is the Thomas
Poythress (father of Meredith). Placing him in with George Noble is a huge
clue to his family ties.

So, Maynard and Bud, what are the odds of this being our Thomas Poythress?

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Johncbaird@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Prince George County VA Records
> Date: Sunday, June 29, 1997 6:55 PM
>
> This may be of interest to someone.
> At a Court held at Fitzgeralds on October 10, 1738. Present: Robert
Bolling,
> William Starke; William Poythress, Theophilus Field, Gentlemen Justices.
>
> August 14, 1759 William Poythress of Dinwiddie County to Samuel Gordon
of Pr
> Geo County, Merchant, for L 11. Two lots in the Town of Blanford, one
acre,
> comprising lots #22 and #40. Wit: John Baird, Patrick Ransey, Robert
Mackie.
> Livery and Seizin witnessed witnessed by: Jere. Baker, James Clark and
> Patrick Ramsey. Recorded August 14 1759
>
> By order of court of Pr Geo Co Mary Binford, widow of Joseph Peeples has
been
> assigned her third of his estate (L 12/15/3). Whole estate valued at L
> 38/5/11 July 11, 1759 by George Nobel, Thomas Poythress, Joseph Carter,
> Holmes Boisseau. Recorded Oct 9, 1759		06/29/1997 7:30:06
Re:POCKRUSMarion & Helene PockrusLyn: Could you please tell me what your Pockrus knowledge is in LA? I am
most anxious to make a connection to a John Pockrus in Louisiana who was
the father of our RMPockrus!
Helene Pockrus
----------
> From: Lyn P Baird
> To: poythress-l@rootsweb.com

06/29/1997 9:24:12
Re: Prince George County VA RecordsRe 8/14/1759....I think that is from PG County Orders book...Gee, I just
don't know if thats our Thomas of Dinwiddie/Brunswick or not. I'm willing to
say so with only a mild "(?)"....anybody feel stronger?

Maynard		06/29/1997 10:10:28
Location of William, Robert & Thomas Poythress Land - 1722Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

In the 1720s Robert Bolling, Surveyor for Prince George County, conducted a
survey of land owners in the county. This is a wonderful record because it
shows the date of the individual parcels were visited and appears to be
sequenced in the order of his travels. In mid-December, 1722 he visited the
properties of William, Robert and Thomas Poythress along the Butterwood
creek. I have created a map showing the general location of these
properties based on the location description provided for Bolling.

I haven't linked this map to our web page because I'd like to do some more
work on it and perhaps add some additional property owners in the vicinity.
If you'd like to see what I have so far you can use the following URL:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/map1.html

This land is located directly east of Ft. Pickett and west of I-85 in
modern Dinwiddie County -- approximately 15 miles southwest of Petersburg.

If you folks find this helpful, I'll push ahead with adding more land owner
names from this survey. Keep in mind however, that the locations are only
approximations based on the few geographic features given in the Bolling
survey.

Best,

Al Tims		06/29/1997 12:10:20
Re: Some Marriage Records-Burned CountiesAlbert R. TimsMaynard & List,

Nope -- this isn't the Thomas of current interest. Thomas E(ppes) Poythress
married Bersheeba Bryant. He subsequently married a Harrison (can't recall
her name right now). Died in VA in 1847.

Al
----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Some Marriage Records-Burned Counties
> Date: Saturday, June 28, 1997 10:30 PM
>
> 18 April 1826 Harrison, Braxton & Camilla A. M. Johnson. Security:
Thomas
> E. Poythress (Charles City County Marriage License).
>
> I would like to claim this Thomas as the immediate object of our search
but
> he seems to be too late and in the wrong place. However, would love to
be
> proven wrong!
>
> MP		06/29/1997 12:21:14
chuckle!!Marion & Helene PockrusI received the following and thought the board might enjoy it! As I have
seen cemeteries and seen bones before in cemeteries like this I thought it
was enjoyable!
Helene

ANECDOTE: The cemetery is in horrible shape and presents
an extreme danger to anyone who wanders into it. Janice's
secretary photographed it several years ago and it almost
"got" him --[grin]-- although he "didn't think it was so
damn funny" at the time. He had dropped a very expensive
camera which went down into a gravesite and almost dis-
appeared. We saw a "flash" (from the camera) as we attempted
to probe for it with a special rod with mechanical fingers.
We were very concerned about not disturbing any remains of
the dead. We retrieved the camera and covered the hole
carefully. We then offered a prayer for the long departed
there, and left. When the film was developed -- there was one
mysterious fuzzy image of what looked like a rather boney,
middle index finger, but extended, prominently in the middle
of the frame.

06/30/1997 2:13:56
Lewis Poythress et. al. - More QuestionsLyn P BairdBarbara, thanks for the re-send of your information on children of Lewis
POYTHRESS. As you see from my recent message on the same topic, my
“incidental” research ties out rather nicely to your “intentional”
research. Here are some inquiries for you:

1) I would much appreciate knowing your source of date of birth of David
POYTHRESS, 26 Jan 1800. I had assumed David was son of Rebecca because
the 1850 census indicates birth in 1806 (consistent with 1820 through
1840 also) and because he is not mentioned in the Edward GILES will.

2) The source of marriage of David POYTHRESS to Sally DORTCH would be
appreciated.

3) Do you have any information on Lewis Y. POYTHRESS after his 1845
receipt of land from his father and 1846 marriage?

4) Do you have any information on a third marriage of Lewis POYTHRESS?
Could it really be true that Rebecca died after September of 1845 and
Lewis was re-married by July of 1846?

5) Do you have a date of death for Lewis POYTHRESS? I have not found him
in the 1850 census.

6) Do you have any information on the parentage or siblings of our shared
ancestor Rebecca B. TAYLOR? I suspect there is a relation to the Isaac
TAYLOR, surety for David POYTHRESS and close neighbor per census records,
but no research.

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird		06/30/1997 3:43:13
The Score: Poythress 352, Pockrus 63Lyn P BairdHelene, I had never heard the surname Pockrus until I recently came
across my wife’s ancestor of this name. My first thought upon seeing it
was, “This is another variation of Poythress.” In my years of
researching the Poythress name, I have seen many variations and have come
to expect it to be variously spelled and pronounced. In Southside
Virginia it is pronounced as if spelled PORTRESS, and indeed the spelling
“Portress” is often seen in public records. So it was no stretch at all
for me to imagine some branch of the family modifying it to “Pockrus”.
Of course, the only sure way to validate this Pockrus-Poythress theory
would be to find the missing link, that child Pockrus with parent
Poythress, and this is a task not yet on my action item list. However, I
will propose a model for consideration as follows: In the course of that
familiar early nineteenth century sweep of southwestward migration, from
Virginia through Georgia toward Texas, a Poythress branch acquired the
name Pockrus. It was likely in Alabama. It was perhaps an illiterate
branch (and we had not a few up our way) who left spelling to unfamiliar
civil and church officials. This branch continued spreading westward
into Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas. In this century, with the
demise of farming culture, descendents scattered widely throughout the
country.

For fun I did a quick search of a national white pages on Internet, which
revealed a total of 63 Pockrus households nationwide, distributed as
follows:

24 Texas
12 Alabama
06 Arkansas
02 Minnesota
02 Oklahoma
02 Oregon
02 West Virginia
01 California
01 Colorado
01 Florida
01 Georgia
01 Illinois
01 Maryland
01 Michigan
01 Missouri
01 Montana
01 New Mexico
01 Tennessee
01 Utah
01 Washington

A search for variants showed 6 Pockras households, all in Ohio, and 9
Pockrass households, scattered across California (2), Florida (4),
Indiana (2) and New Jersey (1).

I find interesting the total absence from Virginia and the Carolinas, and
the rarity in Georgia. From my wife’s ancestry, I know the Pockrus
family was in the Deep South by the mid-nineteenth century. My
unschooled perception is that the Deep South was settled by immigration
from the southeast. So where are those Pockrus relations that would have
been left behind?

Rarity of the surname is also interesting. Counting the three variations
above we have only 78 households in the entire nation. In contrast, for
Poythress, which I perceive to be a very uncommon name, I find 352
households distributed as follows:

118 NC
071 GA
048 VA
016 AL
015 FL
013 CA
012 TX
010 MS
007 TN
005 OK
005 SC
004 MN
003 MT
003 WA
002 AK
002 CO
002 LA
002 MD
002 MO
002 NJ
002 OR
002 PA
001 IL
001 IN
001 MI
001 NY
001 OH
001 WI

All this, while perhaps intriguing, is thoroughly inconclusive. So I
look forward to following the further hunt of you and others for the
missing link. As a suggestion, with only 78 households in the nation,
you may want to consider a mass mailing to all to solicit information.
(Hey, maybe with only 352 Poythresses, the rest of us should consider a
mass mailing as well.)

By the way, fellow Poythresses, how do you pronounce our name? Who
sounds it out exactly as spelled? Let me hear from you?

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird		06/30/1997 3:43:13
Thanks...and Virginia GeographyLyn P BairdMaynard, thanks for the re-send of information from Mrs. Dixon. My only
preliminary comments would be with respect to geography. While I am most
grateful for Mrs. Dixon’s research, I do not share her understanding of
Dinwiddie County. As I have always understood it, Brunswick was formed
directly from Prince George County in 1732, one of the first two counties
(along with Spottsylvania) that was not an original shire. At that time
it comprised what is now Greenville, Brunswick, Lunenburg, Charlotte,
Halifax and Mecklenburg Counties, all the land south from Nottaway River
to North Carolina and westward. In 1746 Lunenburg was carved from
western Brunswick and contained all of original Brunswick except modern
Brunswick and Greenville. Then in 1765 Mecklenburg was carved from
Lunenburg, spanning from Meherrin River south to North Carolina.
Meanwhile, in 1752 Dinwiddie was carved from Prince George. So far as I
know, there was never any overlap between Dinwiddie on the one hand and
either Brunswick, Lunenburg or Mecklenburg on the other. Nottaway River
always kept them apart. By implication, the territory of Dinwiddie
County could never have reached to North Carolina.

Is it Mrs. Dixon’s understanding that Thomas relocated from Dinwiddie, or
only that he was born in Dinwiddie? What are Mrs. Dixon’s sources for
place and year of birth of Thomas? Assuming the year of birth is
approximately correct, Dinwiddie County is about twelve years younger
than our Thomas P.

Assuming for the present that the adult Thomas P. resided somewhere in
old Brunswick, I am curious in which modern county did he reside -
Brunswick, Mecklenburg or Lunenburg? I believe we now have evidence of
him in both the Brunswick and Lunenburg court records. I have not
researched Mecklenburg with an eye toward Thomas, but there are no
Mecklenburg references in my research notes. According to Neale’s
history of Brunswick County, Thomas was listed among Brunswick
commissaries and impressment officers of the Revolutionary War. I
believe you recently reported a finding that in 1795 Thomas sold land in
(present-day) Brunswick. By 1800 we know his son Meredith was in
present-day Mecklenburg.

Mrs. Dixon indicates Meredith was born in Mecklenburg County. Similar to
the situation with Meredith’s father, Mecklenburg Co. is about five years
younger than Meredith. What are Mrs. Dixon’s sources for Meredith’s
place and date of birth? Is it her understanding that Meredith was born
in that part of Lunenburg Co. that would later become Mecklenburg Co.?

One final comment: We might prefer to find Thomas originating south of
that Nottaway River. As you know the court records of Brunswick,
Lunenburg and Mecklenburg Counties are virtually complete; while those of
Dinwiddie and Prince George are virtually non-existent for our time
period. Those latter two courthouses were just too close to the heat of
Petersburg in 1864. (Sometime remind me to convey the legend of how
Brunswick court records were saved; it makes a great story.)

As you say, Mrs. Dixon’s information gives us lots to do. It moves us
years ahead in research. Again, please pass along our most sincere
gratitude.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird		06/30/1997 3:43:14
Prince George County VA RecordsEstate of Robert Boyd, deceased, mentions Joshua Poythress, Col. John
Banister, Mr John Baird, Daniel Call, County Surveyor, Col. Peter Poythress.
Recorded February 13, 1787.

Accounts of the estate of Alexander Robertson in account with Charles Duncan,
Administrator, mentions, Joseph Poythress, Joshua Poythress, Col Bland,
Nathaniel Harrison's estate. Accounts executed by William Robertson and John
Green. Recorded February 13, 1787.

Division of Estate of Richard Bland, deceased. Divided between: Richard
Bland, Ann Poythress Morison, Elizabeth Blair Bland and Mary Bland, widow.
Divided October 10, 1782 by Edmund Ruffin, Jr., William Green and William
P{oythress. Recorded March 17, 1787.

Elizabeth Poythress of Prince George County, widow and relic of Peter
Poythress, late of said county, deceased, Esq., for love and affection to her
daughter Sally Lee, and to prevent any dispute which may happen on
construction of my husband's will, respecting devise, in said will, of Kate's
daughter Fanny, to my said daughter, which in the will was devised to me;
also Kate's children: Betty, Becky, and Kate. Dated 1787. Witness: John
Batte, Tabitha Randolph, William Bingham. Recorded April 10, 1787		06/30/1997 6:45:51
New kid on the blockHello to all:
I'm new to the group having just signed on a few days ago. I am not sure that
I can make a positive connection to the Poythress Family, but I do have
several documents from Prince George County VA relating to them. The
Poythress' and the Baird's definitely knew each other in VA. Some of these I
have already posted. One researcher says that a John Baird married a Jane
Poythress in VA and that she was from England. My Baird ancestor, John, lived
at Jamestown, VA in the late 1600's and later at Chippokes Plantation in
Prince Goerge County. He died there ca 1738. To make research even more
difficult, there were four John Baird's in the area of Petersburg, VA from
1725 to 1775, exclusive of the above mentioned. I am John Conners Baird, born
December 17, 1920 at Montgomery, AL to Earl and Nonie Conners Baird. My
father was born at Baird's Mill in Wilson County TN and my mother at
Columbus, GA. I grew up in Nashville, TN and attended school there. I was in
the Army from 1942 to 1946, a total of 44 months, 21 of which were spent in
the Pacific in the Marshall, Mariannas, Volcano, and Bonnin Islands. I
entered the U S Postal Service as a Railway Mail Clerk and served on a
Railway Post Office between Nashville and Montgomery. I entered management in
1958 and later that year was transferred to Memphis, TN to a Regional
Office. I retired from the Postal Service in 1980 as Regional
Transportation Manager for an 11 state postal region. I moved a short
diatance from Memphis to Olive Branch, MS and began my search for my
ancestors. I am new to computers. Having received friendly insults from my
children and grandchildren about being "tight", I broke down and bought one
about seven months ago. After all, I am Scotch. I depend on my grandchildren
to get me out of "boo boos" I get into with this marvelous technology.		06/30/1997 7:53:40
Re: Lewis Poythress et. al. - More QuestionsAlbert R. TimsLyn,

Below is the study of Lewis and David that Barbara Poythress Wolfe posted
to the web page. It answers some of your questions, but not all. Will be
interested in what Barbara Neal adds...

Best,
Al Tims

Lewis Poythress

26 Dec 1792 Marriage Bond of Lewis Poythress and Patsey Giles, Surety:
Meredith Poythress; Sealed and delivered in the presence of Newman Dortch.
Mecklenburg Cty. Marriage Bonds and Consent papers, 1770-1810 "P" Reel 58,
p. 376.

2 Mar 1796 John and Martha Cleaton sold 98 acres in Mecklenburg to Lewis
Poythress. Abstracted from Deed 10, page 62, Film #0032536 of Mecklenburg
County.

13 Jan 1801 Lewis Poythress sold to John Giles 100 acres in Mecklenburg
County. Abstracted from Mecklenburg Cty Deeds, p. 605

4 Nov 1801 Thomas Watson and his wife Susanna Watson sold 104 acres to
Lewis in Mecklenburg. Abstracted from Mecklenburg Cty. Deeds, p. 47.

9 Apr 1802 Marriage Bond of Lewis and Rebecca B. Taylor, Surety: Thomas
Watson, in the presence of John Dortch.

3 Nov 1813 Dennis Bafs (probably Bass) sold 33 acres to Lewis Poythress in
Mecklenburg County. Abstracted from Mecklenburg County Deeds.

20 April 1816 Grief Harwell sold 138 acres to Lewis in Mecklenburg County.
Abstracted from Mecklenburg County Deeds.

18 Oct 1845 Bill of Sale on property from Lewis Poythress, Sr. to youngest
sons Lewis Y. Poythress, Jr. and Thomas M. Poythress. Mecklenburg County
Deed Book 31 1843-1845 Reel 15 p. 605.

*************************************************************

David Poythress

17 Dec 1827 Marriage Record of David Poythress and Mary Speed Dortch
Consent: Ann Dortch, mother ;Witnesses, Isaac Taylor and Elizabeth C.
Dortch. Mecklenburg Cty Marriages Bonds and Consent Papers 1825-1828 Reel
66, p. 698-700.

21 Jan 1832 Consent by Lewis and Rebecca Poythress for daughter Rebecca to
marry Benjamin Standley. Witness: David Poythress. Ibid. 1831-1835 A-Z Reel
68 p. 265-269.

14 Sep 1837 John M. Parkinson sold 100 acres in Mecklenburg to David
Poythress. Mecklenburg County Deed Book 27, 1836-1838 Reel 13, p.331-332.

15 Aug 1844 Lewis Poythress sold 143 1/2 acres in Mecklenburg to David
Poythress. Ibid. Book 31 1843-1845 Reel 15 p. 253-254.

15 Mar 1848 Marriage Bond of David Poythress and Sally Dortch by David and
Benjamin Standley; Witness J. J. Daly. Warren County Marriage Bonds in
North Carolina State Archives.

16 Oct 1848 Marriage Consent by David for his daughter Martha Jane
Poythress to John Tucker. Mecklenburg County Marriage Bonds and Consent
papers of Minister's Returns 1848-1850. A-Z Reel 73 p. 55 and 60.

4 Nov 1852 Hartwell Arnold sold 321 1/2 acres in Mecklenburg to David
Poythress. Mecklenburg County Deed Book 34 1852-1855 Reel 17, p.87-88.		06/30/1997 8:06:33
Re: Siblings 26 years apartYeah, Pat, I know, it was possible in that "pioneer"
environment....particularly with absence of available (easy) birth control in
that era. I'm just struggling with the fact that if I have to guess, it at
least ought to be a plausible guess. Unless one was of the semi-wealthy
class (and often even if one wasn't) the role of the woman in those
relationships was to have babies and otherwise work like a dog until dying at
a relatively early age.

(For those of you ladies who wish to remind me that times ain't changed all
that much, I can only say that any disagreement from me would be "in the
particular"....i. e. , I don't know a whole lot of middle class American
"homemakers" on a sailboat in the Aegean as we speak. But in the general, I
wouldn't give you much argument).

I'm about to "surrender" this one, leaving a "(?)" , folding my tents and
moving on.

Best,

Maynard

06/30/1997 9:11:26
362 POCKRUS in my database.Marion & Helene PockrusLyn, First you are driving me nuts. I have several John Pockrus' and one
has to be grandpa's father. Tell me who your John F. Pockrus is as I
haven't found him. Where was he located? I probably have all kinds of
connections to him and maybe he is one of my Johns(No laughs Maynard!)
For 32 years we sought our RM Pockrus. Finally started looking and
followed every Pockrus that we knew of forward and back. We have 362 at
this point.
As to spellings-
The Pockrus children that David has with him cannot be all of his. The
Pockrus families in ALabama still live on the original land that he bought
in 1818. I've been there, done that, scrounged information on every
vacation . I've combed cemeteries til I keeled over in Louisiana, seen
many unmarked graves that are evidently Pockruses. Seven in one cemetery
next to the Pockrus tombstone. Granpa was a turkey the family always
thought. BUT HE WAS OUR GRANPA! He came home to be with grandma when she
had her 5th child. He took a deadhead on the RR to get his paycheck and
was never seen again. The family spent money they could ill afford and
hired a dectective and never found him, or a body. It took the 1920 census
to finally help me prove him . He was in an unmarked grave in Texas with a
wife and child. Finally found someone who actually met him as a young
bride and she liked him immensely!
Grandma remarried a tyrant and died in childbirth within 5 years.

Parkus(one of David's sons took this name. All of his decendants have it
as well, however he is buried as POCKRUS next to his wife Martha LaFarlette
Pockrus in Marshall Co., AL. The grave is being lapped at by the dam.
Have not followed his forward at this time but have a couple of
generations.
Parkes
Parkess
Parcus
Parkis
Pakerus
Packerous-Civil War record
Pacrouse
Parkhouse
Packrouse
Pacrouse
Pacruss
Pacrus
Parkhurst
Porkrest
Porckrust
Porckus
Poccius
Poriis
Pockras
Parcuse
Parks
Parrchuss-This was a lulu!
There have been others, but this is what is on this data base.
Before I die I would like to tie up the loose ends on Grandpa Pockrus.
Then I would have all of the Pockrus family tied together. Please give me
a hand. The only reason that I went to the Poythress board was because
there had been speculation before. They have been very supportive but at
times dubious. I'll help with that connection after I find your Joh F.
Pockrus.
Helene Pockrus		06/30/1997 10:12:00
Poytress siblingsPat & Maurice CreweMaynard, Marion & Helene,
It wasn't only possible for women to produce offspring over a long time
span in a "pioneer" environment- look at the Poytress family.
Charles Poytress, farmer, married Sarah Clarke 9 Feb 1807. Their 1st
child was baptised 15 Dec 1807 and they proceeded to have 12 children in
all, the last Henry being born in 1832. Almost the 26 years you mention.
However, I do agree it is relatively unusual.
Best wishes, Pat		06/30/1997 10:46:19
Children of Lewis PoythressCharles NealLyn,

I have LOTS of other Census entries for Poythress folks in those 1830-40-50
censuses you mentioned, but I have no time to dig them out tonight & upload
them. I know that at least SOME of them are in Mecklenburg, since that is
where my gggfather was in 1850, and it seems to me others were there too.
Maybe tomorrow night if I don't have another 26 messages to read tomorrow
night (as I found tonight & haven't even had time to read all of, yet)...
Unfortuately, my "60-hr/wk day-job" leaves me only a small window of time
for all things genealogic in the evenings; but I do persevere! 😉

Re the attachment: I do not have Word of any version on this laptop, so
all I have of your charted attachment is pure gibberish. Can you please
SAVE AS: DOS TEXT or SAVE AS: ASCII TEXT, and resend the attachment to
me, please, please? (Or snail-mail me a copy?)

Were you taking my info about the 3rd child of Lewis you listed, "James
(1805->1850) for the part indicating "married Catherine ? before 1830" or
did you independently come up with a James having married a Catherine?
(This is a question I tried to track down from someone else who had
repeated something similar, some years ago, and I never got an answer from
her. Hope you have some sort of answer...)

Thanks, Lyn. All for tonight.
(P.S. for Al's benefit: Still haven't been able to visit ANY website
including the property one. Apparent conflict on the new machine caused by
part of Microsoft Office that keeps messing up the internet browser
accessing anything.)

BPN late 6/30/97		06/30/1997 10:49:05
Lewis Poythress et. al. - More QuestionsCharles NealLyn,

Re your Lewis Poythress questions -- many of which are my questions, too:
(1) BPW (Barbara Poythress Wolfe), who is off on a camping & houseboating
vacation right now, may be able to answer more re the source of this info's
specific month & day. I have from BPW 2 items re source of dates: (1st) a
copy of her diagram & transcription from her Poythress family's tombstones
in Elmwood Cemetery, Henderson, Vance County, NC (Garnet Street to
Breckenridge). It includes a marker for "DAVID POYTHRESS 1800 - 1876."
(2nd) a photocopy of a handwritten sheet prepared by her father, Willis
Poythress, in 1944, which he prepared with the assistance of his mother,
Effie L. Poythress. It likewise shows "David Poythress 1800-1876." I
repeated to you, in my earlier message, the dates that BPW put on a
handwritten Family Group Sheet she had shared with me when I first "met"
her via phone & mail back in May of 1992. I had recently asked her for
updated F Group Sheets generated by her computer program & showing sources.
My inquiry prompted her to realize that before she prints them out for me
she needed to do some "brushing up of them" which unfortunately she has
been too busy to do so far. But I know her well enough to KNOW that she
must have had some source for the month & day or she never would have
included it.

(2) I have a copy from BPW of the original "Marriage Bond" for the marriage
of David Poythress and Sally Dortch showing that "David Poythress and
George S. Moss" obtained the bond in Warren County, NC on 15 March 1848.
It was signed, sealed, and delivered in the presence of Jn. N(or U?) White.

(3) There is an "L.Y. Poythress" in the 1850 Census in Greensville County,
in the last family shown on the page bearing the stamped number of 392, as
the head of family # 340, who is a 37 yr old Male, Overseer, with no value
of real estate listed. The only other person in the family is "Mary
Poythress" age 43 Female. Both born in VA.

(4) I have no information on a 3rd marriage for Lewis Poythress.
Certainly it could be true that any may of that era remarried 10 months
after his wife's death, considering all the exhausting responsibilities of
keeping a farm & house going (especially if there were any kids around
needing attention as there were when my Godfrey ancestor married within a
shorter time than that, I believe, with 4 kids the eldest being about 6 yrs
old).

(5) As I believe I indicated in my first message to you about Lewis
Poythress, I am greatly in need of ANY sources and dates for Lewis
Poythress -- birth and death included.
(6) No, I unfortunately have no information about our shared ancestor
Rebecca B. Taylor and would very much like to find some, but have not
worked on TAYLORs so far.

Thank you so much for joining in the group & for the info you have provided
so far (even though I can't read the "Word" attachment; hope you or Al can
help me out on that) and for any future info you can provide.

AY! 6/30/97 (late)
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		06/30/1997 10:49:09
Re Score & VA GeographyCharles NealLyn,

Our family always pronounced POYTHRESS exactly as it is spelled, with a bit
more emphasis on the first syllable (rhyming with "boy").
As to what happened to so many of either Pockras or Poythress, at least our
branch of the family almost totally "daughtered-out" (I am one example).
Then my youngest brother saved the day: he now has 6 children to date, 4
of which are boys (oldest child is about 13 now & the baby just born) & I'm
not sure they've ended.

Thank you for your succinct & interesting summary of the county evolution
in the area of VA where our interests lie. I, for one, would love to hear
the story of how the Brunswick records came to be saved!

BarbPoythressNeal		06/30/1997 10:49:16
Improved Map -- Faster, BetterAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Have loaded a new version of the 1722 property locations for William,
Robert & Thomas Poythress. The new map images are much clearer, load much
much faster and are free of any copyright issues. You'll find a close-up
image of Butterwood Creek and a larger image of the region with a pointer
to the exact location of the close-up image. I've also included the
lat/lon on the maps. Do keep in mind however, that my placements are only
approximations.

Take a look when time permits: http://www1.minn.net/~atims/map1.html

Several of you have written to me suggesting improvements and expressing
interest in having neighboring families listed. I'll start working on
adding other families right away. Also, now that I've got the map
generation process down, perhaps we can do some more of these for other
areas (in and out of Virginia).

Best,

Al Tims		06/30/1997 11:15:43
Re: SiblingsMarion & Helene Pockrus>Pat crew told Maynard:

> Just thought I'd say that 26 years isn't an impossible difference in age
> for children in the same family. If the mother was 16 at the birth of
> her 1st child, she would still only be 42 at the birth of the last. She
> could have produced offspring later than this, many did.

>My husband's mother married at 14, had children about every two years for
a total of 10. When my husband and his twin brother were born, the older
girls were accused or having illigitimate children as each of the older
ones took on the care of the twins. Mama always said"When I turned 40 and
started having them two at a time, it was time to quit. She never did say
why she didn't have more.
Helene		06/30/1997 11:36:00
SiblingsPat & Maurice CreweHi Maynard,
Just thought I'd say that 26 years isn't an impossible difference in age
for children in the same family. If the mother was 16 at the birth of
her 1st child, she would still only be 42 at the birth of the last. She
could have produced offspring later than this, many did.
Regards, Pat		06/30/1997 11:50:08
GDAH MicrofilmGDAH Drawer 37, Microfilm roll 27, transcribed by JMP 9/27/95

Screven County Ordinary Minutes Book A, 1812-1829

* pg. 29, Jan. 1814

Ordered, that James Poythress have license for retailing spirituous
liquors.

* At an Superior Court began and held at Jacksonboro, in and of the county of
Screven
ordinary purposes this fourth day of February, 1823.

Ordered, that John S. Maner be appointed guardian of the person and the
property of
John Mercer, minor and orphan child of John Mercer, late of said county,
deceased,
and that James P. Poythress and Grace and Issac Rooks be taken as his
security.

* At an inferior court began and held at Jacksonboro in and for the county of
Screven for
ordinary purposes this fourth day of August, 1823. Present their honors
Alexander
Douglas, William Smith, and Roger McKinney, Esq., and Anthony Lewis.

Ordered, that Matthew Rogers be granted letters of administration on the
estate of
William Matthews, late of said county deceased and that James P. Poythress
and
Alexander McGowin be taken as his securities and it is further ordered that
John
Smith, Robert McKinney, Matthew M. Potter, James P. Poythress, and Peter
Reddick, or any three of them be appointed to appraise said estate.

* Session of the court, second day of September, 1823.

Ordered, that there be a division of the personal estate of Daniel Howell,
Jun.,
deceased, among the lawful heirs of said deceased, namely Cullen Williamson
the
administrator of the said deceased in right of his wife, and Sarah Ann
Howell and
that Richard W. Miller, _______ Boston, _______Wilkinson, Hope Brannen, and
John Rawls, or any three of them be and they are hereby appointed to divide
said
estate.

* Session of the court, held for Jacksonboro______________.

Ordered that George H. Maner be appointed guardian of the person and
property
of James Mock, late of said county, deceased, and that John S. Maner be
taken as
his security.

Page 2

* Session of the Superior Court held at Jacksonboro, in and for the county of
Screven for
ordinary purposes this sixth of March, 1820 (out of sequence?).

Ordered, that Sarah Kemp, the widow, be granted permanent letters of
administration on the estate of Solomon Kemp, Sen., deceased, and that
Alexander Kemp, Issac Bryan, Stephen Mills and Issac Rooks and Seaborn
Goodall be taken as his securities and it is further ordered that Hulford
______,
Issac Brown, Peter Reddick, and James P. Poythress or any three of these be
appointed to appraise the estate.

* Monday sixth of November, 1826 being the regular term prescribed by law for
holding
inferior court for ordinary purposes and not a sufficient number of the
justices attended
it is therefore adjourned until next Monday the thirteenth instant and act
in said such
cases made and prescribed in 1823. Signed: Edmund Gross
Justice of the Inferior Court
Seaborn Goodall, Clerk

* Session of the court held first day of January, 1824.

Ordered, that Sarah Kemp be appointed guardian of the person and property of

Mary Kemp, a minor and orphan of Solomon Kemp, citizen deceased late of
Screvin County and that Stephen Mills and John Kemp be taken as her
securities.		06/30/1997 12:16:26
Re: Parents and Siblings of Lewis PoythressLyn.....a grand uncle is only one generation away for being on the ground at
the time.
I'd be inclined to give him high credibilty. Plus, regardless of the "mix"
with respect to brothers, cousins, whatever...its got to be highly likely
that those guys all going simultaneously from Mecklenburg to Burke/Sylvania
counties were linked somehow...brothers would be best of all worlds just for
the purposes of our own "convenience" but obviously we'd rather have the
truth....or at the least the most plausible arrangement.

Lets look at Mrs. Dixon's chart (plus Mrs Dixon's own question) about whether
the Thomas of Dinwiddie/Brunswick was the same one who came to Ga., became
sheriff of Burke County, "willing" the job to son George....or if there were
indeed "two" Thomases, the father who remained (had died?) in Mecklenburg and
a SON Thomas
who came to GA. I'm inclined to "one Thomas"...there just don't seem to be
enough years in there for TWO of them and all the "mentions" of Thomas stop
in Virginia in 1786 and begin in GA in 1786.

One obvious problem cited by Mrs. Dixon herself is that 26 year age
difference between Meredith (b. 1760) and Martha Amanda Elizabeth (b. 1786)
which sort of leads us all to at least consider the "two Thomas"
theory.....or a "two wives for Thomas theory"....or a remarkable woman having
children 26 years apart.

Lyn, if we take your "five brother" concept with Lewis staying home and
Meredith, Sr., George, Thomas James, and Edward coming to GA as 4
brothers...AND if we accept Mrs. Dixon's fairly reasonable estimated birth
dates of 1760, 1771, 1765, 1767, and 1769....and then put Martha Elizabeth
Amanda on with a birth date of
1786 we have added the sixth child in 26 years. It sort of strikes me that if
we take Meredith, Sr. out of the sibling relationship "off the front end" we
reduce that gap to
more reasonable 15 years. If we take M. E. A. Poythress off the back end
we're down to an also reasonable 17 years....or at least a heck of a lot more
reasonable than 26 years.

Climbing a little further out on this limb....given that Martha (aka Patsey)
seems to live much longer than husband Thomas James P., that might lead us to
Meredith being a son of Thomas' first wife and the other four being children
of Thomas' second wife (the possibility of Martha/Patsey being Thomas'
second wife already being acknowledged by Mrs. Dixon). While we know that
George and Lewis were probably
"full" brothers, there is nothing in your (Lyn's) speculation that would not
allow for Meredith to be a half-brother. I don't believe we have a single
mention of a wife in Virginia for Thomas and it seems to me that if he had
had two the odds would be better for having some kind of "mention".

The only way a theory could work "on the back end" of the window is to just
"dis-avow" Martha Elizabeth Amanda P. and I'm just not comfortable with that.

So.....it strikes me that we aren't willing to accept a time frame of 26
years for a brother and sister (and we are sort of going on rationality here
in the first place) then we either have to accept...

a) a two-Thomas theory
or
b) a two wives for Thomas theory which makes either Meredith Sr. a son
of the
first wife or MEA a daughter of the second wife, take your pick.

If we accept Mrs. Dixon's death date for Meredith Sr. as 1839 then the will
of George which mentions "my brother Lewis" back in Virginia ignores "my
half-brother" in Georgia if indeed Meredith is a half brother (son of a first
wife).

Before I waltz myself even further off into never-never land, could I have
some speculation from others?

Thanks!

Maynard		06/30/1997 12:16:31
More on Robert Hicks and FamilyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

It is clear from the following account that Robert Hicks had to be closely
associated with the Poythress families. Also, please note the mention that
in 1781, Greensville County was formed from the eastern portion of
Brunswick.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The present town of Emporia, Virginia, was once called Hicksford.  The name
evolved from the spot on the Meherrin River where Capt. Robert Hicks had
his trading post.  It was at a shallow point that was fordable and became
known as Hicks' or Hix's Ford.  It is believed that the villages of
Hicksford, located on the south side of the river, and Belfield, located on
the north side of the river, were combined in the late 1880's to become
Emporia.

Robert Hicks was captain of the garrison that Governor Spottswood installed
at Fort Christianna in Brunswick County in 1714.  Captain Hicks went with
Governor Spottswood to Albany, New York, in 1722, to negotiate a treaty
with the Iroquois Indians.  In 1728, he accompanied Colonel William Byrd
and the commission that surveyed the boundary line between North Carolina
and Virginia.

Robert Hicks first appeared in Charles City County (afterwards Prince
George) records.  In 1690, John Evans, Robert's father-in-law, gave 560
acres adjoining General Wood's land to Robert Hicks and his wife, Winifred
Hicks.  On April 13, 1693, Robert Hicks appeared in Charles City County
Court in a drunken state and was sentenced to the stocks.  His
father-in-law soon afterward gave him another 1120 acres of land on the
south side of the Appomattox, and shortly thereafter, Hicks claimed 600
acres for transporting twelve persons into the colony.  He is mentioned
numerous times in Brunswick County land records up until the late 1730's.

The will of Robert Hicks, Gentleman, was dated March 6, 1739, and proved
February 7, 1740. To his son, Charles Hicks, all my land at the Indian Fort
containing 650 acres adjacent to Nathaniel Edwards, and 150 acres lying in
the Fork of Reeves.  To son, James Hicks, the plantation whereon I now live
after the death of wife, whatever is left of patent of 2610 acres. To son,
George Hicks, tract of land adjacent to his land.  To son-in-law, Richard
Ransom, 150 acres lying in the Fork of Reeves.  To grandson, Benjamin Hicks
(son of Daniel Hicks, deceased son of Robert), 150 acres in Fork of Reeves.
Daughters, Martha Beddingfield, Frances Ransom, Elizabeth Hicks, Rachel
Hicks, Mary Hicks, and Tabitha Hicks.  To grandson, John Beddingfield, all
my part of the Mill on Genito's Creek.  Wife, Frances Hicks, named as
executrix.  Witnesses were Ann Poythress, Charles Rose, and John Chapman
(Brunswick County, Virginia, Will Book 2, page 4).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Hicks was named in the will of his father, Robert Hicks, dated March
6, 1739, and proved February 7, 1740.  He was left the plantation whereon I
now live after the death of wife, whatever is left of patent of 2610 acres
(Brunswick County, Virginia, Will Book 2, page 4).

James Hicks was named in the will of his mother, Frances Hicks, dated May
7, 1744, and proved July 5, 1744.  He and his brother, George, were
executors (Brunswick County Will Book 2, page 93).

James Hicks is also mentioned many times in Brunswick County land records.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Benjamin Hicks owned land in Brunswick County, Virginia.  He was named in
the will of his father, James Hicks, in 1760.  In 1771 and 1772, he
purchased property on Great Creek, and in October, 1777, he and his wife
sold their lands in Brunswick County.  It was at this time, it is believed,
that the family moved to Cheraw District (now Chesterfield County), South
Carolina.

In the spring of 1780, during the Revolutionary War, the British fources
invaded South Carolina. Many American patriots were driven from the Cheraw
area, their slaves being seized and freed. Benjamin's house was burned and
he returned to Hicks' Ford in Brunswick County, Virginia. He registered his
53 slaves, as the tories were setting them all free (Brunswick County,
Virginia, Deed Book 14, page 101).  One slave named Brandum, aged 45, was
on the list.  A slave of that name was willed to Benjamin by his father,
James Hicks, in 1760.

In 1781, Greensville County was formed from the eastern portion of
Brunswick, and Hicks' Ford fell in the new county.  Benjamin Hicks was
appointed surveyor for Greensville, County, and during the same year was
granted a license to operate an ordinary (tavern) at Hicks' Ford. He
continued to appear in the records of Greensville County as late as 1785.		07/01/1997 2:20:27
Poythress>PockrusI am going to postulate that the guy who was named Poythress and spelled it
Pockrus was in Alabama.

Having gone to school in Alabama, I will try to get away with this one: I
take as analogous to the above the recent scientific discovery that the
toothbrush was invented in Alabama. Because if it had been invented anywhere
else they would have named it the teethbrush :).

The Fantum

07/01/1997 4:32:17
RAINEYAl, Lyn and others:
I really made a boo boo on this post. It should have been RANEY not RAINEY.
Sorry.
John

07/01/1997 9:40:54
Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)James L. PooleThe following is somewhat lengthy, and is probably only of interest to
those who might have been following the Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress)
discussion.

The above families were indeed very close, though I haven't discovered
exactly in what way(s). The following are some Brunswick records that
connect them:

"William Lucas, 1130 acs. (O. & N.L.), Surry Co.; on S. side of the Little
Cr. Of the Three Creeks; adj. Col. Nathaniel Harrison; near head of the
Myery Br; Robert Hicks; & Capt. Thomas Goodwin's line; 25 Aug. 1731. 300
acs. granted Henry Peebles, 5 Sep 1723; 230 acs. granted sd. Lucas, 22 Feb.
1724; 600 acs. being waste land adj. 45 Shill., and Imp. Of 3 pers: John
Wall, Roger Richards & James Gristin."

"Will. 7 May 1744. I, Frances Hicks of B, being sick and weak but in
perfect senses?
I order that no appraisement be made of my estate.
Signed - Frances Hicks. Wit - John Wall, Henry Beddingfeild, William
Beddingfeild.
At a Court held for B 5 Jul 1744, this will of Frances Hicks, widow deced,
was presented in court by James Hicks, one of the executors, and the same
was proved by the oaths of John Wall, Gent, and Henry Beddinfeild, two of
the witnesses?"

"15 Oct 1747 from George Hicks of St Andrew's Parish in B, Gent, to Robert
Jones Jr of the Parish of Albemarle in the County of Surry, Atty at Law,
for 400 ?, all that tract of about 1310 acres of land in St Andrew's Parish
& B on the north side of Meherrin River?
Commission and certificate. To John Willis, Timothy Rives, George Wych,
John Wall, and Richard Ransom, Gentlemen, Greeting. Sarah cannot
conveniently travel to our County Court or to our General Court of Virginia
to acknowledge the conveyance. You are therefore given the power to
receive her acknowledgement by personally going to Sarah."
"Will. 27 Jun 1748. I, Richard Ransom of St Andrew's Parish in B, being
sick and weak but of sound memory?
Executors: my trusty friends Colo John Wall and Colo Nath'll Edwards. And
I appoint them, or the sur-vivor of them, to be guardian to my 2 sons,
James and Robin, whom I desire they may have bound apprentices when they
come to the age of 16. Signed - Richard Ranone. Wit - Saml Bennett, John
Wall Jr
At a court held for B on 6 Oct 1748, this will was presented by the exors,
who refused to take upon them-selves the burden of the execution, and the
same was proved by the oath of Samuel Bennett, a witness, and OR. On the
motion of the Francis, the widow and relict of the said testator, with John
Wall and Nathaniel Edwards, Gent, her securities, entered into and
acknowledged bond?"
"Inventory and appraisement of the estate of Richard Ransom dec'd?
Per B Court order, we appraised the estate. Signed 26 Jan 1748 - John Wall
Jr, Benja Seawell, George Wyche.."

"5 Jun 1746 from Isaac House of St Andrew's Parish in B, to Richard Ransom
(Ramsom) of same, for 35 ?, one certain tract of about 84 acres of land on
the north side of the three Creeks in B, and bounded by the creek a little
above the Mill. Signed - Isaac (X his mark) House. Wit - John Wall Jr,
James Maclin."

"Lease and Release. 15 May 1746 from David Crawley of Prince George
County, mariner, to John Wall the younger of B, Gent, for 60 ?, one certain
tract of about 240 acres of land on the north side of Meherrin River in B,
and bounded by [trees]. The land was patented to David Crawley, the
father, deceased, on 18 Feb 1722, and descends to the said David Crawley as
heir at law. Signed - David Crawley. Wit - George Wallton, Michael Wall,
Richard Ransom, Matthias Davis, John Butler, Walter Campbell. Re-corded 4
Sep 1746."

We know that Robert Hicks (and family) were involved in the Indian trade
from a charter provided by Al Tims a few days ago. We know that Peter
Poythress was also involved with the Indian trade, at least as an
interpreter. A careful examination of the Brunswick and Surry records will
reveal that Captain Thomas Goodwin, mentioned above, was a sea captain, and
involved in the Indian trade, and that David/Daniel Crawley (also mentioned
above) was similarly engaged. I have yet to place the Ransoms with this
group, but I'll bet they were coharts.

John Wall, Jr., married -- I believe -- Ann Poythress, daughter of Joshua
Poythress of Martin's Hundred, and Flowerdew, which establishes the
Poythress-Wall tie. Since I do not know to whom John Wall, Sr., was first
married, it is conceivable that he married a daughter of one of the above
families. The following patent establishes the fact that John Wall was
also somehow involved in the Indian affairs of the area.

"John Wall, of Pr. Geo. Co.; 100 acs. (N.L.), Is. Of Wight Co; on S. side
of Maherin River; near lower end of the Dutchman's Meadow; 17 Dec. 1717.
For service performed towards making the new settlement for the Saponie
Indians at Christianna, &c."

All the above named men were living at, or frequent visitors to, the area
near what is called Christiana Old Fort (in fact John Wall settled only two
miles from it). Robert Hicks was the commander of the militia unit in
charge of guarding it. Fort Christiana was established by Governor
Spotswood as an Indian trading post and settlement. In the early 1700's it
was governed by a privately chartered company known as the Indian Company.
I'm reasonably sure that all the named men were either members of the
Indian Company, or were employed by it. Even more compelling are the
following quotes taken from a history of Fort Christiana: "The Guard of
the Fort and the men of the Virginia Indian Company were entitled to use
the land within the six mile limit."

And...

"The Virginia Indian Company, 'a joint stock company open to all Virginians
then engaged in the Indian trade,' was established by an act of the
Assembly in 1714, with headquarters at Christanna. The twenty members,
paying between ?50 and ?100 per member, elected Spotswood as president of
the company. Its purpose was to regulate and conduct the trade between the
Indians and the Virginians. Formerly the Virginia Assembly had licensed
men as Indian Traders in an effort to control their conduct. Some of the
traders had cheated the Indians, sometimes by getting them drunk. The
Indians knew of no other way to avenge themselves other than by killing any
whites they met, or by stealing from them. Now the Indians were required
to bring their goods to one place, Fort Christanna, for trading in open
market, under the regulation of the Indian Company."

I believe from the information above that a lot of our family connections
would be revealed if we could find the records, especially the membership
and militiamen, of the Indian Company. I have yet to find these.

Lou Poole		07/01/1997 9:53:51
Re: Poythress>PockrusMarion & Helene PockrusTex is spewing his ice cream as he is laughingso hard. I loved it! Way to
go!
HeLP

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Poythress>Pockrus
> Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 4:32 PM
>
> I am going to postulate that the guy who was named Poythress and spelled
it
> Pockrus was in Alabama.
>
> Having gone to school in Alabama, I will try to get away with this one: I
> take as analogous to the above the recent scientific discovery that the
> toothbrush was invented in Alabama. Because if it had been invented
anywhere
> else they would have named it the teethbrush :).
>
> The Fantum		07/01/1997 10:14:47
Re: RAINEYAlbert R. TimsJohn,

First, we ALL make mistakes -- so don't worry. Tolerance, humility,
helpfulness and good humor are (we hope) part of our tradition. Basically,
we exist to help one another, learn, build a solid family history and have
fun in the process!

Second, It seems to me that Raney and Rainey are so close that I'd be
really surprised not to find the name spelled both ways -- even in the same
document. I'd suggest that you consider Rainey as a variant of Raney (or
vice versa) in collecting documentation on the family. You should see all
the ways Poythress gets spelled! Even my Tims surname gets spelled every
which way.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Johncbaird@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: RAINEY
> Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 10:40 AM
>
> Al, Lyn and others:
> I really made a boo boo on this post. It should have been RANEY not
RAINEY.
> Sorry.
> John		07/01/1997 10:18:10
Re: The Score: Poythress 352, Pockrus 63Hey, Lyn....NICE post....figured we needed an ingerneer in this crowd to get
something scientific going ;).

With respect to the mass mailing concept, I have already done this drill and
have the following to report:

1)We bought one of those every-phone-book-in-the-world mailing lists, worked
up what Barbara Neal and Barbara Wolfe and I thought was some suitably
seductive
text and let 'er fly. Incidentally, there were 306 of those rascals. We
were a tad surprised that far and away the greatest number were in NC, with
expectedly VA second and I think GA and ALA distant 3rd and 4th. The
remaining "pattern" was sort of proportinate to state populations....except
very few in the north and those who answered were all corporate transplants.
I'm guessing we got about 30 or so replies which I considered to be
outstanding.

The fruit of this endeavor can be summed up in a word: BUMMER. The good news
was the response rate was mathematically terrific, the bad news was they were
by and large, worthless responses IN A GENEALOGICAL sense. The folks were
uniformly cordial and supportive. Many said if we ever finished a book put
'em on the list and they would buy one. The problem was, in restrospect,
that this sort of query is just not appropriate for a scatter-shot. Nobody
knew much of anything past a grandfather or grandmother. Our conclusion:
great folks and heartwarming responses...but anyone likely to be interested
in genealogy was already there...and thats even more true now that we are
"easy to find".

2) is that intended to discourage Helene? Not one bit. The response rate is
likely to approximate the above but what you have to remember is the
cost/benefit leverage.
All you will have invested is 20 bucks or so and some time; if you get one
live one its likely to be worth 20 bucks. So I'd say, go ahead and take a
whack at it.

3) nor would I discourage anyone wanting to do it all over again for
Poythress if they are determined to do it. I'd just say beware of
unrealistic decisions.

Hope that adds a perspective.

Re pronunciation....I pronouce it as its spelled; my brother, who is running
for governor of GA and wants to be el supremo folksy, says Portriss. My
mother used to say that somewhere around the 8th grade is where you decide
how to pronounce it and whatever that decision is you are likely to stick
with it. :).

Maynard		07/01/1997 11:13:53
Name soundswayne scruggsMaynard,
I have to agree with your brother David. We always pronounced it
Portriss in Meridian,Ms.Of course they say all of us from Ms. are a
little backwards anyway .
Judy

07/01/1997 11:57:01
Mass MailingHey Lyn.....your post gave me an idea (always dangerous for me). I still
have all the answering letters to the query cards we sent out in...ta
da...1992. Geez, I'm not normally the packrat but I guess I was in this
case.

Anyhow, thanks to your jogging my memory, I'll now write all these folks a
personal letter and give them the webpage address. Contrary to having to
answer a letter, reaching a page (if one is on-line) is a fairly simple
proposition. I'm not unrealistic enough to expect a half dozen P-chasers a
long way into their projects but hey....this is a "leverage" proposition. If
we get even one "convert", let alone someone who is already working, its
worth the trouble. (we retired geezers with a wife out of town for three
weeks don't have anything else to do anyway).

In this same regard, I'm sure each of us on the wire is telling his or her
kinfolks all over the place that we're here and we are trying to do good
stuff. Al, we may raise our "Neilson" if nothing else. Once they see your
"stuff" you may be destined for a
new career.

Best,

Maynard		07/01/1997 12:56:33
Re: RAINEYMarion & Helene PockrusTIMS,TIMES, TYMES,THIMES, TUMS-Oh gosh I need one!

07/02/1997 1:02:28
Bristol Parish, Prince George County VAFrom "Baird & Beard Families by Fermon Baird Catchings, published 1918.

Mary Baird married THOMAS POYTHRESS, Editor and Legislator. Their daughter
married Col B. M. Jones.
ROBERT POYTHRESS of Prince George County, Va had nine beautiful daughters.
One married Bland; one Harrison and one Baird (may have had a son James
Harrison Baird).		07/02/1997 1:56:18
More on Robert HicksAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Maybe we're catching up with Jean Spille a little with our current studies
of Robert Hicks, the Ransoms, Walls, etc. Jean Sent the following to us
some time ago. We nodded, but didn't make it connect. Now, it connects
better than ever. Read this with care, compare it to the information I've
posted recently, Lou Poole posted yesterday and the allied family names I
have on the Butterwood map (3rd frame)
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/map1.html

It seems criminal for us not to give this part of the Poythress family
history careful study.

Enjoy this in the context of the recent information -- even if you read it
before when Jean sent her original post.

Best,
Al Tims

Sketches of Greensville County, Virginia, 1650-1967
Chapter II
"That Honest Man, Captain Hicks"
Part I

IN THE EARLY HISTORY of Greensville County Captain Robert Hicks, the
pioneer, has always been first in the imagination and affections of the
people. His life on the frontier is a window to the past; his career
the epitome of the traditional border captain.
There are two Robert Hicks - one the man of history, the other the
man of fiction and folklore. Since this is so, it would not he proper
to leave unmentioned the stories of him that have been repeated shout
the firesides of Southside Virginia for more than two centuries.
According to the old tales, he was a British officer; he came up the
James from Jamestown and up the Appomattox River. Here, Fort Henry on
Flea Island protected a small frontier settlement on the Site of what is
now Petersburg. He was caught up in a rollicking, hard-drinking crowd.
Once, while participating in a drinking bout with "the Bollings and
other high rollers," he became so intoxicated he lost consciousness.
When he came to himself, he discovered his queue had been cut off short,
an act implying great disrespect. Angered and deeply humiliated he left
Fort Henry and followed the Indian trail southward through the
wilderness toward Carolina. He journeyed forty miles, far beyond the
outermost white settlements, until he came to the Meherrin River deep in
the southern forest. Here he set down his stakes. He won the
confidence of the Meherrin Indians who were numerous and had many
settlements in the area. There was an Indian fort not far from the
river crossing where he stopped. The Indians gave him a plot of ground
on the river bank on which to build; they helped him cut down the huge
trees and erect his double log cabin. Then one day when Vnuntsquero,
the Chief of the Meherrins, saw Hicks wearing a fine silk hat with a
plume, he said to him, "Last night I had a dream."
"And what did you dream?", asked Hicks.
"I dreamed you gave me your hat," said the chieftain. (Vnuntsquero,
"Chiefs Man of the Maherian," signed the Treaty of 1677 thus:
; also signing was Horehannah, "next Chiefe man of the Maherians." His
signature was .)
Robert Hicks, knowing the Indians placed great significance on their
dreams and expected them to come true, and also remembering that it was
their custom when receiving a gift to return one of equal or even
greater value, seized the opportunity to improve his position among
them. Taking the hat from his head, be graciously presented it to the
chieftain who received it with apparent delight.
A few weeks later Robert hicks came upon Vnuntsquero and said, "I
had a dream last night."
"And what did you dream" asked the Indian.
"I dreamed you gave me all the land for twenty miles along the river,"
Hicks replied quickly. The chieftain hesitated for a moment, then
solemnly said, 'The land is yours, White Man, but go and dream no more!"
And so it was, according to the legend, that Robert Hicks came to be
rich in lands and spent the rest of his days near the river-crossing
which became known as Hicks' Ford [Hicksford] and after a long time
became Emporia. For a livelihood he built a Trading Post* and bartered
with the Indians and the incoming white settlers. Under the huge oaks
that still stand he would hold "pow-wows" with the Northern Indians when
the occasion arose. His son "Robin" (Robert, Jr.)
built himself a house in the woods on the southside of the river
(between it and Jefferson Street), but "he died young." All this is
folklore and with this the tales end. Captain Hicks is swallowed up by
time. He is lost - except in legend.
How much of the legend is true we shall now see. For of the real
Captain Hicks we know much more than we do of the legendary Captain.
Who he was or where he came from no one knows. Like Melchizdek in the
Old Testament he appears out of nowhere. Attempts have been made to
show that he was the same as the "Captain Hicks" who appeared in James
City in 1694 as commander of His Majesty's Ship, "King Fisher," or that
he was a descendant of Robert Hicks of Plymouth, Massachusetts, or the
son of Robert of Lancaster County, Virginia. All have failed. Neither
can it be shown that he was a British officer - retired or unretired -
unless his service as the commander of the Surry Rangers be considered
as such, as well it might be.
________________
* See footnotes

Robert Hicks appears first in Charles City County (afterwards Prince
George). In the records his name is spelled both Hix and Hicks, often
both ways in the same record. He was born about 1658. He married
Winifred Evans probably about 1678. She was a birthright Quakeress, the
daughter of Captain John Evans and his wife Mary, of Charles City
County. In 1663 John Evans' land lay on the south side of Appomattox
River, near Fort Henry and adjoining that of Major General Abraham Wood,
the great explorer, Indian trader and commander of the Fort. 'This site
was to become Petersburg. John Evans, Senior, also a large landowner
and successful Indian trader, was a devout Quaker.2 When the Act of
Toleration was passed by the British Parliament in 1692 he petitioned
for permission to hold a Quaker meeting once a month in "his old House
and twice a week there alsoe and once a year where he now dwells." His
son Captain John Evans, Jr. was a successful Indian trader and an
associate, later, of Robert Hicks.
It is probable that Robert and Winifred were married "in meeting" by
the simple Quaker rites. Had it not been so she would have been
dismissed from the Society for "marrying out" and he would have lost the
favor of his father-in-law. As it was, John Evans, in 1690, gave Robert
and Winifred "for love and affection" 560 acres adjoining General Wood's
land. It is reasonable to interpret this as meaning he approved of the
marriage. However, if Hicks was ever a Quaker himself he did not remain
one for we soon find him taking oaths in Court and "bearing arms." Among
his effects at his death would be a Prayer Book, something no good
Quaker would have had.
Winifred Evans Hicks did not live long but it is believed that she
was the mother of Robert's two oldest sons, Robert (Robin) and Daniel.
Eventually Hicks married again, this time to Frances. Her surname is
unknown. She was to be the mother of many children outliving her
husband by several years. Robert Hicks was to become the father of
twelve children, six sons and six daughters: Robert, Daniel, George,
John, James, Charles, Martha who married John Beddingfield; Frances who
married Richard Ransom; Rachel who married Matthias Davis; Tabitha who
married Thomas Jacobs; and Mary and Elizabeth (one of whom married an
Irby).
Robert Hicks must have been a handsome man, and blessed with a
strong physique, for he lived a long, strenuous life. At eighty-three
he was still in perfect health. The only description we have of him is
by William Byrd, II, who speaks of him as "my old friend." When Byrd
described him Hicks was seventy years old. The year was 1728. He
wrote, "Beauty never appeared better in old age, with a ruddy complexion
and hair as white as snow."3
Like many another lively young man Robert Hicks, no doubt, had years
when he sowed his wild oats. On April 13, 1693, he appeared in Charles
City County Court in a drunken state and was sentenced to the stocks.
This was far from commendable (in fact, it was a common occurrence even
for members of the Court) but he could not have been a worthless fellow
or given to continuous drunkenness for his father-in-law soon afterward,
perhaps at a vote of confidence, gave him another 1,120 acres of land on
the south tide of the Appomattox and shortly after that (on his own
initiative) Hicks claimed 6oo acres for transporting twelve persons into
the colony. These early acquisitions of land were the be ginning of a
habit he would follow to the year of his death - patenting, buying and
selling land by the thousands of acres. He would become a wealthy man.
The last mentioned grant was to the south of Fort Henry; it crossed
the Second Swamp and adjoined tracts owned by Evans and James Cock(e).
Few white men dared to journey in that direction except in the company
of others.
We do not know when Robert Hicks first started trading with the
Indians but it must have been at an early date - certainly prior to
1700. It is probable that he became involved from the time he arrived at
Fort Henry. The Fort, built in 1646, had been the center of Indian
trade from the early 1650s. Most of the men whose names we know who
lived in the locality were traders or factors in the peltry trade. Some
were involved in a large way sending caravans (made up of as many as 100
horses) out on the Trading Path which began at Bermuda Hundred where the
ships anchored.4 It would have been unusual had Robert Hicks not
become involved in so profitable a commerce and popular a pursuit.
In 1700 Governor Francis Nicholson of Virginia, who had long been
interested in the trade, conferred with Robert Hicks and John Evans
giving them "instructions to be observed . . . concerning which they are
to treat with such great nations of Indians as they shall trade to, and
particularly the Usherrees (The Catawbas, 283 miles southwest of Ft.
Henry) and the Tottevay (Nottoway or Toteros?) in regard to a school to
be established for the Indians." The Usherees lived in upper South
Carolina, their lands extending southward to what is now Camden. This
fact suggests how far these early traders had penetrated the then
unknown wilderness. That Robert Hicks and his associates went even
farther south is intimated by the fact that before 1705 he had brought
into the colony an Indian slave. Her English name was Bess and she
belonged to the Appalachian tribe whose original lands were about
Tallahassee, Florida. The tribe never lived farther north than Augusta,
Georgia, where the great "Western Trading Path" ended.6
In the years before tobacco became the major crop in Virginia the
fur trade (especially beaver) was the most advantageous in the colony.
Profits were fabulous. Many of the early fortunes were founded upon it
both in Virginia and South Carolina. Skins of wild animals bought for a
handful of glass beads or a cheap trinket brought handsome prices on the
European market. For the man with a little money to equip a trader or a
man with enough courage to venture his purse and person in the Indian
country, the opportunity to secure quick wealth was unexcelled. Hand in
hand with the "skin trade" went the trade in Indian slaves, it being the
accepted custom to buy the prisoners of war (whom the Indians
automatically made slaves) and resell them to the Virginia planters or
on the New England market.7 Unscrupulous white men engaged in "slave
catching." Though the Indian slave trade was a common practice at the
time we have no evidence that Hicks and his associates ever engaged in
it.
Robert Hicks, his father-in-law, John Evans, and John Evans, Junior
(later called "Captain Evans") were very active in the "southwest
trade." Others in the same business and with whom Robert Hicks was on
intimate terms were: Col.William Byrd II, John and Robert Bolling (who
had "an immense trade with the Indians" and a Store near Petersburg),
Col. Robert Mumford, several of the Joneses including Peter, Thomas and
Richard, and the Poythresses. The records tell of Robert Hicks' visits
to "Westover" to discuss the "skin trade" and his frequent and friendly
associations with these "Gentlemen." It is probable that William Byrd
shipped Hicks' furs for him. He certainly went out of his way to
accommodate him by buying two Negroes belonging to Captain Evans, "in
hope of gaining the trade."
Beginning as a "private trader" (as independent traders' were
called), or perhaps in conjunction with his relatives, it was not long
until Robert Hicks had a company of his own, which meant enough capital
to buy pack-horses, trade goods, ammunition and guns, provisions, and
wages for the pack-horsemen. His partners were: John Evans, Richard
Jones, "Gentleman" (later Captain); David Crawley, Nathaniel Urvin
(sometimes spelled Urven and again, Irwin), and possibly Nathaniel Irby.
With the exception of Jones, these men were related by marriage or
otherwise. Nathaniel Urvin's daughter would marry Robert's son and a
daughter of Hicks would marry an Irby.
These traders (with the exception of Hicks himself) would post bonds
in Charleston, S. C., in 1710/11. Logan in his history of Upper South
Carolina says they carried on "a regular and honorable commerce."8 For
a number of years they ranged so widely and did so handsomely they
aroused the intense jealousy of the South Carolinians with whom they
competed. They were representatives of a large number of white traders'
from the Southside. As early as 1698 the South Carolina Commons House
debated a bill forbidding Virginians to trade with any Indians in that
Province - as if Virginians had not been doing this very thing since the
1650s. In 1701 the Carolinians proposed that all of the Virginia
traders' goods be confiscated but this did not pass. However, in the
same year they levied a heavy tax on every horse brought into the
colony, an ill-conceived plan to stop Virginia caravans. Knowing this
law was contrary to Her Majesty's royal decree of free trade between her
colonies, the Virginians refused to pay the tax. In 1707, invoking this
act, the South Carolinians seized a considerable quantity of skins and
"diverse other goods" which Hicks and his partners had left in one of
the Catawba towns while they were further on trading with "the Western
Indians." The order had been to "seize the said Traders in their return
and take from them all they had and strip them and send them back to
Virginia."9		07/02/1997 2:14:16
New CustomersTo All:

As I hung out queries over the past few years I received many interested
responders and tried to answer them all. Now that we have a webpage and the
ability to make available to these folks more information than we could
practically mail to them, I felt the need/obligation to write all the ones on
my database, give them the website address, and invite them to join us.
So....I have today mailed out 50+ letters to all these names, adding a
personal note where appropriate. A copy of the letter is below.

Why am I telling you this?

1) since I pulled my whole database I will no doubt bump into somebody's
cousin who is going to ask you "who is this nut anyway?" ....you'll have the
answer.

2) to suggest to each of you that if you have friends and relatives with even
the chance of an interest, it would be a good idea to give them the webpage
address. Even if THEY have no interest, THEY may have a cousin who does have
the interest.

I'm begining to think our experience with this type of "advertising" is
wholly positive.
Those with limited interest and/or only a couple of questions don't tend to
stay on the radar screen very long. The ones that are left are either
already players or stand a good chance to turn into more serious players.

Just think about it.

Maynard

My letter:

John Maynard Poythress
2903 Glen Hill Circle
Louisville, KY 40222-6159

July 2, 1997

Dear Friend:

Please excuse the form letter but as I have advertised in the past I am
keeping people up to date with respect to the Poythress genealogy group and I
have a huge database. I would never finish if I used personal letters.

At some point in the past you were (and hopefully still are) interested in
the genealogy and history of the Poythress family and various allied families
Wynne, Bland, Boling, Randolph, Cleaton, etc. etc. Many of you were
interested in variant spellings of a particular name or historical events.

The purpose of this letter is to tell you about the Poythress webpage and its
related discussion group which is now very active on the internet via the
webpage and via e-mail for the discussion group.

Many genealogy pages simply put up a tree and start hanging names on it. You
will find our page to be completely different. We post original documents
(well, transcriptions anyway), maps, charts, and serious papers directed to
specific topics.

Both the page and the list are of course free if you have access to the
internet or have a friend who does. Participation in the discussion group
can take any form with which you are comfortable. Many members simply audit
the goings on and never say a word. We are pleased to have them too.

The address is: http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

You are cordially invited to visit the page. We will be delighted to have
you visit and stay as long as you wish.

Warmest regards,		07/02/1997 2:45:58
Va. Taxpayers 1782-87Virginia Tax Payers
1782-1787
Other Than Those
Published by the United
States Census

An act for the first census to be taken was passed at the second session of
the First Congress as was signed by President Washington on March 1, 1790.
This census was to include free white males over sixteen years of age, free
white males under sixteen years of age, free white females, all other free
persons and slaves.

These lists for Virginia, as well as several other states, were destroyed
when the British burnt Washington during the War of 1812 so an effort was
made to locate duplicates but there seemed to be only some copies of State
enumerations extant.

My (Mrs. Augusta B. Fothergill) effort has been to make use of the first
personal property tax lists for those counties then extant in order to supply
this deficiency. The lists are not absolutely conclusive since some men did
not pay taxes if they were indigent, exempt for physical disabilities or if
they held certain political or military offices. However, in some instances
we find that some of the latter paid on some of their personalty.

Poythress listings:

Name Poll Slaves
County____________

Poynthress, Joshua 1 24 Prince
George
Poythress, Mary 18 Prince George
Poythress, Mary 10 Prince George
Poythress, Meredith Brunswick
Poythress, Thomas 2 6
Brunswick
Poythress, William 1 16 Prince George
Poythress, William Southampton
Poythriss, Francis 2 1
Dinwiddie
Poythriss, John
Dinwiddie
Poythriss, Peter 26
Dinwiddie
Poythriss, Peter 1 17
Dinwiddie
Poythrop, Peter 1 87 Prince
George.		07/02/1997 2:46:06
Re: Our Pockrus Connection!Marion & Helene PockrusLyn,
Thanks so much! For a minute there I thought there was someone I had
missed, some unturned stone. I will have to send the research on your
wife's line in an attachment. Can you use a gedcom format? You did give
me the last name of Margaret however which I did not have. We have always
found John to be John T. which is easily read in the old script as an F I
am sure. It took years to find his son John T's middle name was John
Thompson. In one census index we found a reference to a Thomas , but he
wasn't on the census. Very interesting! The Bossier Historian really
laughed when we visited . "The infamous 1870 census! That is the year the
census taker got drunk up in those hills anddidn't finish the census.
Don't feel bad, he missed the Malones(related) 3 censuses running!" So we
thought "T" might have been his mother's maiden name. Are you or your wife
researching that family at all?
John THompson according to his Grand daughter (age 94) who is still
living, fell from a Riverboat fighting over a gun and fell overboard and
drowned, according to her Dad. We have marvelous stories of this families.
My husband wanted to be related to John Thompson but we can't prove a
relationship. He has a great history!
Helene

----------
> From: Lyn P Baird
> To: txphlp44@enol.com
> Subject: Our Pockrus Connection
> Date: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 6:29 AM
>
> My apologies for the delay in responding to your inquiry about Pockrus
> relations in Louisiana. According to unverified family information, my
> wife is the third-great-granddaughter of John F. Pockrus and Margaret
> Rummels. I know nothing about these two except the names. Again from
> the same unverified source, their children are atated to be as follows:
>
> >Martha Elizabeth P. (1851-1945) married Green Newton Goodwin
> (1847-1930); both buried in Salem Cemetery, Bossier Parish (my wifes
> further ancestors)
> >Nancy Melvina P.
> >Mary P.
> >Alfred Jackson P.
> >John P.
> >Billie P.
> >James P.
> >Clementine P.
> >Purilee P.
>
> Keep us posted on what you find and we will do the same.
>
> Regards,
> Lyn Poythress Baird
> llbaird@juno.com		07/02/1997 3:11:17
Re: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)StarrHello POYTHRESS researchers,
I forwarded one of the messages which came across this list to one of
"my" CLARK research group members, and lo and behold she has data to share
with you all; she also knows Lou --whose individual address I don't know --
but, Lou consider this my way of getting it to you.

>Interesting stuff..... Remember there were at LEAST 3 Robert Hicks in the
>area at the same time.... Here is some related information. I also happen
>to be a Crawley.....
>
>Linda, please forward this to Lou for me. I am at work and don't have his
>e-mail here. He and I are Marshall cousins. I didn't know that he was
>looking for these people.....
>
>Lea
>lea@gnat.net
>Southern Bass
>http://www.gnat.net/~lea/
>
>
>Descendants of Peter Poythress
>
> 1 Peter POYTHRESS
>. +ANN
>... 2 Anne POYTHRESS b: 13 Dec 1712 d: 09 Apr 1758
>...... +Richard BLAND II b: 06 May 1710 m: 21 Mar 1728/29 d: 26 Oct 1776
>........ 3 Elizabeth BLAND b: 17 Mar 1732/33
>........... +Peter POYTHRESS
>........ 3 Richard BLAND III b: 20 Feb 1730/31 d: 1788
>........... +Mary BOLLING b: 16 Jul 1744 d: 09 Sep 1803
>........ 3 Peter R. BLAND b: 02 Feb 1736/37 d: 16 Feb 1781
>........... +Judith BOOKER
>........ 3 Ann BLAND b: 15 Aug 1735
>........ 3 John BLAND b: 19 Oct 1739
>........ 3 Mary BLAND b: 15 Jan 1740/41
>........ 3 Edward BLAND b: 16 Dec 1746
>........ 3 Sarah BLAND b: 19 Sep 1750
>........ 3 Susan BLAND b: 20 Feb 1751/52
>........ 3 Lucy BLAND b: 22 Sep 1754
>
>
>These connect somehow...
>
>Descendants of Peter Poythress
>
> 1 Peter POYTHRESS
>. +Elizabeth BLAND b: 17 Mar 1732/33
>... 2 Mary POYTHRESS
>...... +John BATTE
>... 2 Elizabeth Bland POYTHRESS
>...... +William MAYO b: 26 Sep 1757 m: ca 1759
>
>
>Descendants of Peter Poythress
>
> 1 Peter POYTHRESS
>... 2 Jane POYTHRESS
>...... +Joseph MAYO b: 21 Mar 1771 m: 28 Jul 1792
>
>
>Descendants of Robert Hicks, Sr., the Taylor
>
> 1 Robert HICKS, Sr., the Taylor
>... 2 John HICKS, Sr. b: in Surry Co., VA d: ca Jul 1729 in Surry Co.,
>VA
>...... +Rebecca RIVES b: ca 1692 in Surry Co., VA m: Bef. 1712 d: Aft.
>1742
>........ 3 John HICKS, Jr.
>........... +ELIZABETH
>........ 3 Abigail HICKS d: Bef. 1781
>........... +John ROSE, Sr. b: ca 1694 in Surry Co., VA m: Bef. 1728 d:
>1781 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 Rebecca HICKS
>........... +Edward TATUM I d: ca 1739 in Surry Co., VA
>........ 3 Joshua HICKS
>........ 3 Daniel HICKS d: Bef. 1759
>........ 3 Robert HICKS b: ca 1712 in Surry Co., VA d: 1781 in Brunswick
>Co., VA
>........... +Mary COURTNEY? m: 1739 in Surry Co., VA d: Bef. 28 May 1770
>... 2 [1] Robert HICKS, Capt. b: ca 1658 in Surry Co., VA d: ca 1739 in
>Brunswick Co., VA
>...... +Winifred EVANS m: Bef. 1690
>........ 3 Daniel HICKS, Sr. d: 1735 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........... +EDITH d: Bef. 1740
>........ 3 Robert HICKS, Jr. b: 22 Jun 1691 in Charles City Co., VA d:
>1737 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........... +Elizabeth IRVIN m: 04 Mar 1725/26 in Brunswick Co., VA d:
>Bef. 02 Oct 1740 in Brunswick Co., VA
>... *2nd Wife of [1] Robert Hicks, Capt.:
>...... +Frances RAGSDALE? m: Bef. 1693 d: 1744 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 Charles HICKS d: 1745 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 Elizabeth HICKS
>........... +Peter RANSONE d: Bef. 1726
>........ 3 [2] Frances HICKS
>........... +Richard RANSOM m: 06 Mar 1737/38 d: 1748
>........ *2nd Husband of [2] Frances Hicks:
>........... +Batte PETERSON b: ca 1700 m: 28 Mar 1751 in Brunswick Co, VA
>d: ca 1751 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ *3rd Husband of [2] Frances Hicks:
>........... +Seymour POWELL, Jr. m: Bef. Feb 1753
>........ 3 Martha HICKS d: Bef. 1744
>........... +Henry BEDDINGFIELD m: 06 Mar 1737/38
>........ 3 Mary HICKS d: Bef. 1744
>........... +Edmund IRBY II d: 1762 in Abbeville Co., SC
>........ 3 Rachel HICKS
>........... +Matthias DAVIS
>........ 3 Tabitha HICKS d: Bef. 1744
>........... +Thomas JACOBS, Sr. m: in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 John HICKS, Sr. b: ca 1693 in Charles City Co., VA d: ca 1761
>in Anson Co., NC
>........... +OBEDIENCE
>........ 3 George HICKS, Sr. b: ca 1695 in Charles City Co., VA d: 1762
>in Craven Co., SC
>........... +SARAH m: ca 1725 d: 1770 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 James HICKS, Sr. b: Bef. 1700 in VA d: ca Jan 1761 in
>Brunswick Co., VA
>........... +FATHY d: ca 1765
>........ 3 Sarah HICKS b: ca 1700
>........... +Samuel CLARKE, Jr. d: ca 1753 in Brunswick Co., VA
>
>
>
>
>Descendants of Nathaniel Irvin
>
> 1 Nathaniel IRVIN
>. +ELIZABETH d: ca 1735 in Brunswick Co., VA
>... 2 Elizabeth IRVIN d: Bef. 02 Oct 1740 in Brunswick Co., VA
>...... +Robert HICKS, Jr. b: 22 Jun 1691 in Charles City Co., VA m: 04 Mar
>1725/26 in Brunswick Co., VA d: 1737 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 Elizabeth HICKS
>........... +Robert RIVES b: ca 1722 in Prince Geo. Co., VA d: 1774 in
>Prince Geo. Co., VA
>........ 3 Nathaniel HICKS
>........... +MARY
>........ 3 Winifred HICKS
>........ 3 Martha HICKS
>........ 3 Mary HICKS
>........ 3 Sarah HICKS
>... 2 [1] Mary IRVIN d: 1762 in Brunswick Co, VA
>...... +Burwell BROWN m: Bef. 1733 d: ca 1749
>........ 3 Betty BROWN
>........... +John COOKE I b: ca 1738 in Brunswick Co., VA m: 24 Sep 1759
>........ 3 Urvin BROWN d: ca 1776 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........... +Mary THWEATT b: ca 1734 m: Aft. 1758
>........ 3 George BROWN
>... *2nd Husband of [1] Mary Irvin:
>...... +John WALL, Sr., Col. m: Jun 1752 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ 3 Mary WALL
>... 2 Amy IRVIN
>...... +Thomas WILSON
>
>
>Now there are probably mistakes on the BATTE information as people have made
>mistakes putting BATTE and BETTY as one family. They are 2 separate and
>distinct families. I am afraid that I haven't cleaned THAT mess up yet....
>
>Descendants of John Peterson, Sr.
>
> 1 John PETERSON, Sr. b: in Bristol, England? d: Bef. 19 Feb 1678/79 in
>Charles City Co., VA
>. +Elizabeth SOANE
>... 2 John PETERSON, Jr. b: Bef. 1673 d: ca 1731 in Isle of Wight Co.,
>VA
>........ 3 [1] John PETERSON III
>........... +FRANCES/FANNY m: Bef. 1720
>............. 4 Nathaniel PETERSON b: 12 Nov 1720
>............. 4 William PETERSON b: 25 Oct 1723
>........ *2nd Wife of [1] John Peterson III:
>........... +Martha THWEATT m: Bef. 1731
>............. 4 Mary PETERSON
>................ +Francis POYTHRESS d: ca 1796 in Dinwiddie Co., VA
>.................. 5 Mary Peterson POYTHRESS
>..................... +? RANDOLPH
>............. 4 Nathaniel PETERSON b: 25 Apr 1732
>............. 4 Martha PETERSON b: ca 1734
>................ +Robert BATTE, Sr. b: 16 Oct 1727
>.................. 5 John BATTE
>..................... +Mary POYTHRESS
>.................. 5 Robert BATTE, Jr.
>.................. 5 Frederick BATTE I
>..................... +Mary BATTE b: ca 1774 m: 24 Sep 1795 d: 1855 in
>Brunswick Co, VA
>.................. 5 Mary BATTE
>..................... +F. EPPES
>.................. 5 [2] Martha BATTE
>..................... +? JONES
>.................. *2nd Husband of [2] Martha Batte:
>..................... +Nathaniel COLLEY m: 18 Aug 1791
>............. 4 Peter PETERSON b: Bef. 1741 d: 1819 in Greenesville Co.,
>VA
>................ +Elizabeth Barham NEWSOM d: 1848 in Greenesville Co.,
>VA
>.................. 5 Sarah Mason PETERSON
>..................... +John Norfleet BLUNT m: 28 May 1822 in Greensville
>Co., VA
>.................. 5 Mary E. L. PETERSON
>..................... +Edward DRINKARD m: 02 Jun 1828
>.................. 5 Ann P. PETERSON
>..................... +John M. RIVES m: 25 Jul 1833 in Greensville Co.,
>VA
>............. 4 Frances PETERSON b: 1745
>................ +James PARSONS
>............. 4 John PETERSON IV b: 1749 d: 1773
>............. 4 Thomas PETERSON I b: ca 1751 d: 1788
>................ +Elizabeth CLAIBORNE b: 1758 m: 15 Jun 1775 in Sussex
>Co., VA d: 1794
>.................. 5 Thomas PETERSON II d: 1809
>..................... +Sarah EPPES
>.................. 5 Ann PETERSON d: 1794
>.................. 5 John Herbert PETERSON b: ca 1777 d: 1829
>..................... +Mary Herbert HARRISON b: 11 Sep 1766 m: 09 Apr 1795
>d: 15 Jan 1833
>.................. 5 Augustine PETERSON b: 1783 d: 1803
>........ 3 Mary PETERSON
>........... +William SPAIN, Sr.
>............. 4 John SPAIN b: 22 Mar 1720/21
>............. 4 William SPAIN, Jr. b: 09 Mar 1722/23
>............. 4 Joshua SPAIN b: 10 Jul 1725
>............. 4 Eliza SPAIN b: 30 May 1731
>............. 4 Batte Peterson SPAIN b: 09 Sep 1733
>........ 3 Judith PETERSON d: ca 1773 in Brunswick Co, VA
>........... +John THWEATT I d: ca 1759 in Brunswick Co, VA
>............. 4 John THWEATT II b: 21 Mar 1720/21 d: in Young
>............. 4 James THWEATT b: 20 May 1722 d: Bef. 1758
>................ +Sarah STURDIVANT
>.................. 5 Thomas THWEATT
>..................... +BETTY
>.................. 5 Sarah THWEATT b: in Dinwiddie Co., VA
>..................... +John MITCHELL b: 25 Aug 1745 in Sussex Co., VA m:
>ca 1786 in Dinwiddie Co., VA d: 03 Jan 1804 in Hancock Co., GA
>.................. 5 John THWEATT b: 12 Jun 1745 d: 15 Nov 1802
>..................... +Edith PARSONS b: 07 Aug 1719 m: ca 1765
>.................. 5 Tabitha THWEATT b: 27 May 1749 d: 1805 in Hancock
>Co., GA
>..................... +John HAMILTON II b: 1745 d: ca 1817 in Hancock
>Co., GA
>.................. 5 [3] James THWEATT b: 03 Apr 1752 in VA d: 17 Sep
>1814 in Hancock Co., GA
>..................... +[10] Elizabeth PETERSON b: 1761 in VA m: 03 Apr
>1777 d: 11 May 1806 in Hancock Co., GA
>.................. *2nd Wife of [3] James Thweatt:
>..................... +SUSANNAH m: Aft. 11 May 1806 d: Aft. 1814
>.................. 5 [9] Peterson THWEATT I b: ca 1755 d: 1779 in
>Brunswick Co, VA
>..................... +[8] Rebecca PETERSON
>............. 4 Elizabeth THWEATT b: 11 Mar 1723/24
>................ +James BIRCHETT m: Bef. 1758
>............. 4 William THWEATT b: 11 Sep 1727 d: 1763 in Southampton
>Co., VA
>................ +Jane PARHAM m: 10 Feb 1755 in Sussex Co., VA d: ca 1804
>in Sussex Co., VA
>.................. 5 Rebecca THWEATT
>..................... +James MASON b: 04 Jan 1743/44 m: 1777 d: Bef. 1802
>............. 4 Martha THWEATT b: 20 Dec 1732
>................ +Joseph GOODWYN m: ca 1755
>.................. 5 Jacob GODWIN
>............. 4 Mary THWEATT b: ca 1734
>................ +Urvin BROWN m: Aft. 1758 d: ca 1776 in Brunswick Co.,
>VA
>............. 4 Judith THWEATT b: 19 Jun 1743
>................ +James GOODWYN m: 12 Oct 1770 in Brunswick Co, VA
>............. 4 John THWEATT b: 22 Aug 1726
>........ 3 Ann PETERSON
>........... +James THWEATT
>............. 4 Frances THWEATT b: 25 Dec 1725
>................ +Arthur HARRISON b: 15 Jan 1719/20 d: 1783 in Brunswick
>Co, VA
>.................. 5 Peterson HARRISON
>.................. 5 Stith HARRISON
>.................. 5 Answorth HARRISON
>.................. 5 Lewis HARRISON
>.................. 5 Frances HARRISON
>.................. 5 Elizabeth HARRISON
>..................... +Cuthbert HARRISON b: ca 1752 d: 1815
>............. 4 Christian THWEATT b: 09 Feb 1728/29
>............. 4 Martha THWEATT b: 29 Sep 1731
>............. 4 Elizabeth THWEATT b: 05 Aug 1734
>........ 3 Batte PETERSON b: ca 1700 d: ca 1751 in Brunswick Co., VA
>............. 4 [6] Martha PETERSON d: 1781 in Southampton Co., VA
>................ +Timothy THORPE, Jr. m: Bef. 1741 d: ca 1763 in
>Southampton Co., VA
>.................. 5 Betty THORPE b: 19 May 1733
>..................... +Jesse ATHERTON m: Aft. 1761 d: 1787 in Northampton
>Co., NC
>.................. 5 [4] Mary THORPE b: 19 Aug 1735 d: Aft. 1768
>..................... +William PERSON b: ca 1736 m: 10 Nov 1757 in
>Southampton Co., VA
>.................. *2nd Husband of [4] Mary Thorpe:
>..................... +William ANDREWS m: Bef. 15 Apr 1791
>.................. 5 Martha "Patty" THORPE b: 19 Aug 1738 d: Aft. 15 Apr
>1791
>..................... +Day RIDLEY
>.................. 5 Lucy THORPE b: 26 Jul 1741
>..................... +John SIMMONS
>.................. 5 Peterson THORPE b: 25 Nov 1745 d: ca Nov 1777 in
>Southampton Co., VA
>..................... +Martha PERSON b: 1752 m: Bef. 1777 d: 1836
>.................. 5 [5] Temperance THORPE b: 06 Feb 1748/49
>..................... +Philip PERSON b: Aft. 1747 m: 26 Jan 1772 in
>Southampton Co., VA d: Bef. Jan 1781 in Southampton Co., VA
>.................. *2nd Husband of [5] Temperance Thorpe:
>..................... +Annanias RANDAL, Dr. m: Bef. 1791
>.................. 5 Silva THORPE b: 10 Feb 1751/52 d: Bef. 1773
>.................... +Jordan RICHARDSON m: Bef. 1772 d: Aft. 15 Apr 1791
>.................. 5 Timothy THORPE III b: 06 Apr 1755
>.................. 5 William THORPE b: 25 Nov 1758
>............. *2nd Husband of [6] Martha Peterson:
>................ +James JONES I m: Aft. 1765 d: ca 1772 in Southampton
>Co., VA
>............. *3rd Husband of [6] Martha Peterson:
>................ +? JARRELL m: Aft. 1772
>............. 4 Christian PETERSON
>............. 4 John PETERSON I b: ca 1720 d: ca 1769 in Brunswick Co.,
>VA
>................ +Martha KINCHEN
>.................. 5 Batte PETERSON d: 1795 in Greenesville Co., VA
>.................... +Mary TAYLOR m: 15 Dec 1762 in Southampton Co., VA
>.................. 5 [7] William PETERSON d: 1814 in Putnam Co., GA
>..................... +Sally WILLIAMSON m: 07 Apr 1765 in Southampton
>Co., VA
>.................. *2nd Wife of [7] William Peterson:
>..................... +Sarah "Sally" BASS b: ca 1762 m: 11 Mar 1797 in
>Greensville Co., VA d: Aft. 1814
>.................. 5 John PETERSON II
>..................... +Martha BARRETT d: ca 1808 in Bertie Co., NC
>.................. 5 Kinchen PETERSON d: 1799 in Northampton Co., NC
>..................... +Ann STANTON
>.................. 5 Temperance PETERSON d: ca 1798
>..................... +Henry TAYLOR, Col. m: 20 Dec 1768 in Brunswick
>Co., VA d: 1781 in Southampton Co., VA
>.................. 5 Mary PETERSON
>.................. 5 Patience PETERSON
>.................. 5 [8] Rebecca PETERSON
>..................... +[9] Peterson THWEATT I b: ca 1755 d: 1779 in
>Brunswick Co, VA
>.................. *2nd Husband of [8] Rebecca Peterson:
>..................... +Jesse GRIGG m: 27 May 1783
>.................. 5 Lucy PETERSON
>..................... +Edwin LUNDY m: 03 Feb 1788 in Brunswick Co, VA
>.................. 5 Martha PETERSON b: Aft. 1748
>..................... +Joseph GURLEY
>.................. 5 Francis Briggs PETERSON b: Aft. 1758
>.................. 5 [10] Elizabeth PETERSON b: 1761 in VA d: 11 May
>1806 in Hancock Co., GA
>..................... +[3] James THWEATT b: 03 Apr 1752 in VA m: 03 Apr
>1777 d: 17 Sep 1814 in Hancock Co., GA
>........... +Frances HICKS m: 28 Mar 1751 in Brunswick Co, VA
>...... +?
>
>
>See, they are ALL related and they ALL tie back into BASS..... and MY
>lines.
>
>
>Hope that this helps.....
>
>Lea
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/02/1997 5:48:45
Odds and EndsLyn P BairdMaynard, thanks so much for your many communications. Here are some
odds-and-ends in response:

1) IN RECEIPT: I received you very nice care package by mail and am
going through it. Thanks particularly for the tutorial letter, very
helpful.

2) ATTACHMENTS: In my message of 6/29 "Children of Lewis" I attached an
encoded version of a Word 6.0 document LPOYTHRE.DOC. From your response
I gather it did not get through. So I will be mailing you a paper copy.
However, in the hope of eventually improving our ability to send
attachments, let's explore what is happening v. what I expected to
happen. In the past when I have attached a file in this manner, my
recipient sees one of two things:

a) If the recipient has an email package that automatically encodes and
decodes attachments, he sees a filename in the attachment field, ready to
be saved off to his hard drive or opened or whatever that particular
email software permits;

b) if the recipient has an email package that does not perform the above
service, he sees gibberish in the body of the message.

In the case of (b), he then must save the message as a text file, for
example as MYTEXT.TXT and then run the uudecode utility. To do this, at
the DOS prompt he types UUDECODE MYTEXT.TXT. Of course, to do this, he
has to have the UUDECODE utility available. It's freeware. He then
finds the decoded, reconstructed file, by its original name, in the
folder (or directory, if you will) with MYTEXT.TXT. He then opens it,
edits it, runs it, or whatever is called for.

That's what I expected to occur. I would like you to let me know what
actually happened. Then we can attempt to identify cause and correct.

3) SURNAME SEARCHES: In case you have further thoughts about mailings,
or just in case you want to explore surname distributions, let me call
your attention to a nice Internet service called "WhoWhere?". Among its
options is a free US white pages search. The URL is...

http://phone.whowhere.com

4) SOFTWARE: In your letter you discuss software. I am using Family
Tree Maker and find it generally acceptable. I have never used another
package. It needs improvement, however, in handling source information.
There is a meager 256 character limit on each source entry. Also, there
is no place to enter a source for a parent-child relationship. One is
forced to park relational proof in odd places. For example, I have
chosen the convention of placing the proof that Abbot is father of
Costello in the location for proof of Abbot's birth date. Of course, I
am tracing ancestry typically. If one were tracing descent instead, one
may prefer to place proof that Costello is son of Abbot in the location
for proof of Costello's birth date. Since there is no standard, I
foresee it will be hard to study another's database. I am unfamiliar
with ReUnion but would be a bit skeptical if it were from Microsoft.
They tend to be on a strategy of planned obsolescence that usually kicks
the consumer in the pocketbook. I foresee us becoming hostage to new
software revisions. For example, I'm running Family Tree Maker on both
Win95 and Windows 3.1. I do not know but would not be surprised to find
that the latest version of ReUnion would not run on Windows 3.1.
Broderbund sells no OS and therefore is motivated to run on everything.

5) FLOWERDEW HUNDRED: My mother corresponds fairly regularly with
Flowerdew Hundred and visits them occasionally and they seem interested
that she is a Poythress. From talking to her, I can't tell whether they
are collecting anything unique or doing any kind of original research on
the family. Would you know? Do they have a web site?

That's enough for now.

Regards,
Lyn		07/02/1997 6:38:04
Latest Hicks-Ransom-Wall (etc., etc.)-Poythress infoJames L. PooleYes, listees, I "know" Lea well -- we've mutual roots that cross and
recross all over southern Virginia, and we're constantly finding new
connections. If we were to tally up the number of ways we are related --
well -- it would boggle the mind. But the best info I can share at this
point is to tell everyone else you can consider her information as GOOD AS
GOLD; she does her research, and she knows her genealogy.

Hey, Maynard and Al, you've GOT to get this lady inducted into our "club"!
(If I'd known she had Poythresses up her tree, I'd have twisted her arm
sooner. Lea, are you listening?)

Linda Starr, thanks for making this serendipitous connection!

Lou Poole, Richardson, TX (lpoole@dallas.net)

07/02/1997 6:44:42
Re: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)Albert R. TimsLinda,

Once again, you lurk in the corner and then drop pure gold in our laps!
Fantastic. I don't quite understand the Bass connections, but I guess that
isn't the point. Also, does Lea have any easy way for us to keep the three
Hicks fellows separated? Were they related? We know our fellow is main
interest is Capt. Robert Hicks(Hix). I thought Robert Hicks (the Taylor)
was his father -- this is why I figured we had a very early Poythress
relationship (see below). Also, you might mention to Lea the patent
description:

Patent to John POYTHRESS, dated October 24, 1702, for 350 acres, Charles
City County, on North side of Nottoway River, for importation of John Lee,
Humphrey Hix, __ Standback, Robert Boroman, Hen: Snotgrooe, Wm: Lambred,
and Mary Driv?, running thence along headline of a tract of 950 acres
patented by Hugh Lee Junr. (and by him sold to William Jones, Senr., Robert
HIX the Taylor Senr., and John Roberts).  Virginia Patent Book 9, page 396,
page 397.

I can't tell you how exciting this is. Thanks to you and Lea, or as Lou
might call her, cousin Lea!!!!

Best,

Al Tims		07/02/1997 7:18:17
FW: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)James L. PooleDon't know how many of you will be interested in this, but Al suggested I
send it to the whole list. I have a short history of Fort Christiana
(spelled that way in some places, Fort Christanna, in others) which I'll
cut and paste out of my files for the general information it provides.
Coming up.

Lou

-----Original Message-----
From: James L. Poole [SMTP:lpoole@dallas.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 5:19 PM
To: 'Albert R. Tims'
Subject: RE: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)

Al, some time ago I picked up a copy the "Virginia Atlas & Gazetteer"
(DeLorme Mapping Company, P.O. Box 298, Freeport, Maine 04032, tel #
207-865-4171) at my local bookstore. It was one of my better purchases.
(In fact, I subsequently bought a similar atlas that covers NC.)

The location of Fort Christiana is clearly shown on page 31. As the crow
flies, it is about 5.5 miles south-south east of the town of Lawrenceville,
Va. By road "coordinates" it is just west of VA 46, about two miles (w
est) on Fort Hill Road. Or by creek and river "coordinates" it is on Hays
Creek, about 1.5 miles south of where Hays Creek empties into the Meherrin
River. Totario Creek, which is prominent in the Wall land descriptions,
empties into the Meherrin River about a mile northwest of the Hays mouth.

You betcha they were all there! And did you get that part that only
members and militia were allowed to settle within 6 miles of the Fort?
By-the-by, and a little known fact, the Harrisons achieved their wealth
and prominence through the Indian trade, too. I'll bet one or two of the
James River Harrisons were also members of the Indian Company, if not the
major stockholders.

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert R. Tims [SMTP:atims@minn.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 1:35 AM
To: lpoole@dallas.net; 'POYTHRESS List'
Subject: Re: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)

Lou,

I agree with you 100 percent. Not only is this great family history and
likely to help clarify the extent and nature of the connections, but it is
an important part of the early history of this country. Can you give me
the location of Ft. Christiana? The new maps I announced yesterday list a
number of the families living near the Poythress boys on Butterwood. Not
shown (yet) are those immediately to the south on the Nottaway. Among
these are the Wall, Irby (recall that Charles was selected as the guardian
of William Poythress in 1738 - orphan of John Poythress of Jordans),
Hardaway, Crawley, etc. Basically, every name mentioned in association
with the Indian Company seems to have owned land in this area. The
Poythress seem to have been geographically located right in the middle of
the group.

A footnote: George Booth is shown from 1719 with property that appears to
be adjancent to lands owned by William Poythress and Sloman Wynne. What is
interesting is that my 7.5 minute topographical map (De Witt Quadrangle)
still shows a small Booth Cemetery still standing at this location. It
also shows a very small unnamed cemetery near where Rockey Run branches off
Stony Creek. Looks to be at the end of a dirt road. Without question --
this was once Poythress land. I'd say the odds of this being a Poythress
graveyard are pretty slim, but wouldn't it be fun to go take a look (close
to where 645 joins 637 and turns north).

I hope we'll continue to work this topic.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: James L. Poole
> To: 'POYTHRESS List'
> Subject: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)
> Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 10:53 PM
>
> The following is somewhat lengthy, and is probably only of interest to
> those who might have been following the Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress)
> discussion.
>
> The above families were indeed very close, though I haven't discovered
> exactly in what way(s). The following are some Brunswick records that
> connect them:
>
> "William Lucas, 1130 acs. (O. & N.L.), Surry Co.; on S. side of the
Little
> Cr. Of the Three Creeks; adj. Col. Nathaniel Harrison; near head of the
> Myery Br; Robert Hicks; & Capt. Thomas Goodwin's line; 25 Aug. 1731. 300

> acs. granted Henry Peebles, 5 Sep 1723; 230 acs. granted sd. Lucas, 22
Feb.
> 1724; 600 acs. being waste land adj. 45 Shill., and Imp. Of 3 pers: John

> Wall, Roger Richards & James Gristin."
>
> "Will. 7 May 1744. I, Frances Hicks of B, being sick and weak but in
> perfect senses?
> I order that no appraisement be made of my estate.
> Signed - Frances Hicks. Wit - John Wall, Henry Beddingfeild, William
> Beddingfeild.
> At a Court held for B 5 Jul 1744, this will of Frances Hicks, widow
deced,
> was presented in court by James Hicks, one of the executors, and the same

> was proved by the oaths of John Wall, Gent, and Henry Beddinfeild, two of

> the witnesses?"
>
> "15 Oct 1747 from George Hicks of St Andrew's Parish in B, Gent, to
Robert
> Jones Jr of the Parish of Albemarle in the County of Surry, Atty at Law,
> for 400 ?, all that tract of about 1310 acres of land in St Andrew's
Parish
> & B on the north side of Meherrin River?
> Commission and certificate. To John Willis, Timothy Rives, George Wych,
> John Wall, and Richard Ransom, Gentlemen, Greeting. Sarah cannot
> conveniently travel to our County Court or to our General Court of
Virginia
> to acknowledge the conveyance. You are therefore given the power to
> receive her acknowledgement by personally going to Sarah."
> "Will. 27 Jun 1748. I, Richard Ransom of St Andrew's Parish in B, being

> sick and weak but of sound memory?
> Executors: my trusty friends Colo John Wall and Colo Nath'll Edwards.
And
> I appoint them, or the sur-vivor of them, to be guardian to my 2 sons,
> James and Robin, whom I desire they may have bound apprentices when they
> come to the age of 16. Signed - Richard Ranone. Wit - Saml Bennett,
John
> Wall Jr
> At a court held for B on 6 Oct 1748, this will was presented by the
exors,
> who refused to take upon them-selves the burden of the execution, and the

> same was proved by the oath of Samuel Bennett, a witness, and OR. On the

> motion of the Francis, the widow and relict of the said testator, with
John
> Wall and Nathaniel Edwards, Gent, her securities, entered into and
> acknowledged bond?"
> "Inventory and appraisement of the estate of Richard Ransom dec'd?
> Per B Court order, we appraised the estate. Signed 26 Jan 1748 - John
Wall
> Jr, Benja Seawell, George Wyche.."
>
> "5 Jun 1746 from Isaac House of St Andrew's Parish in B, to Richard
Ransom
> (Ramsom) of same, for 35 ?, one certain tract of about 84 acres of land
on
> the north side of the three Creeks in B, and bounded by the creek a
little
> above the Mill. Signed - Isaac (X his mark) House. Wit - John Wall Jr,
> James Maclin."
>
> "Lease and Release. 15 May 1746 from David Crawley of Prince George
> County, mariner, to John Wall the younger of B, Gent, for 60 ?, one
certain
> tract of about 240 acres of land on the north side of Meherrin River in
B,
> and bounded by [trees]. The land was patented to David Crawley, the
> father, deceased, on 18 Feb 1722, and descends to the said David Crawley
as
> heir at law. Signed - David Crawley. Wit - George Wallton, Michael
Wall,
> Richard Ransom, Matthias Davis, John Butler, Walter Campbell. Re-corded
4
> Sep 1746."
>
> We know that Robert Hicks (and family) were involved in the Indian trade
> from a charter provided by Al Tims a few days ago. We know that Peter
> Poythress was also involved with the Indian trade, at least as an
> interpreter. A careful examination of the Brunswick and Surry records
will
> reveal that Captain Thomas Goodwin, mentioned above, was a sea captain,
and
> involved in the Indian trade, and that David/Daniel Crawley (also
mentioned
> above) was similarly engaged. I have yet to place the Ransoms with this
> group, but I'll bet they were coharts.
>
> John Wall, Jr., married -- I believe -- Ann Poythress, daughter of Joshua

> Poythress of Martin's Hundred, and Flowerdew, which establishes the
> Poythress-Wall tie. Since I do not know to whom John Wall, Sr., was
first
> married, it is conceivable that he married a daughter of one of the above

> families. The following patent establishes the fact that John Wall was
> also somehow involved in the Indian affairs of the area.
>
> "John Wall, of Pr. Geo. Co.; 100 acs. (N.L.), Is. Of Wight Co; on S. side

> of Maherin River; near lower end of the Dutchman's Meadow; 17 Dec. 1717.
> For service performed towards making the new settlement for the Saponie
> Indians at Christianna, &c."
>
> All the above named men were living at, or frequent visitors to, the area

> near what is called Christiana Old Fort (in fact John Wall settled only
two
> miles from it). Robert Hicks was the commander of the militia unit in
> charge of guarding it. Fort Christiana was established by Governor
> Spotswood as an Indian trading post and settlement. In the early 1700's
it
> was governed by a privately chartered company known as the Indian
Company.
> I'm reasonably sure that all the named men were either members of the
> Indian Company, or were employed by it. Even more compelling are the
> following quotes taken from a history of Fort Christiana: "The Guard of
> the Fort and the men of the Virginia Indian Company were entitled to use
> the land within the six mile limit."
>
> And...
>
> "The Virginia Indian Company, 'a joint stock company open to all
Virginians
> then engaged in the Indian trade,' was established by an act of the
> Assembly in 1714, with headquarters at Christanna. The twenty members,
> paying between ?50 and ?100 per member, elected Spotswood as president of

> the company. Its purpose was to regulate and conduct the trade between
the
> Indians and the Virginians. Formerly the Virginia Assembly had licensed
> men as Indian Traders in an effort to control their conduct. Some of the

> traders had cheated the Indians, sometimes by getting them drunk. The
> Indians knew of no other way to avenge themselves other than by killing
any
> whites they met, or by stealing from them. Now the Indians were required

> to bring their goods to one place, Fort Christanna, for trading in open
> market, under the regulation of the Indian Company."
>
> I believe from the information above that a lot of our family connections

> would be revealed if we could find the records, especially the membership

> and militiamen, of the Indian Company. I have yet to find these.
>
> Lou Poole		07/02/1997 7:21:14
Fort Christanna, a brief history (pt. 1)James L. PooleThe following was copied verbatim from Brown, Douglas Summers, "Historical
and Biographical Sketches of Greensville County, Virginia, 1650-1967," pp.
31-38

"One of Virginia's best Colonial Governors, Colonel Alexander Spotswood,
founded Fort Christanna just four years after arriving in Virginia in June
1710. He found the colony anticipating an Indian war. Though forbidden by
the Queen and restricted by a peace treaty, some inhabitants of North
Carolina were causing trouble by settling in an area within three miles of
the Meherrin Indian Town. The Meherrins were harassing the settlers in
return.
"After the Tuscarora and other border Indians massacred the white settlers
in eastern North Carolina, Governor Spotswood sent some of the militia out
to prevent the Virginia Indians from joining them. He made arrangements to
meet with the heads of the Tuscarora Indians who had not been involved in
the war. He and 1600 militiamen from Prince George, Surry, and Isle of
Wight Counties (900 on foot and 700 on horse) went to Nottoway Town.
"The Governor appointed a guard of about one hundred men for the fort
outside the Town. He sent thirty horsemen to meet the Tuscarora Indians at
the Saponie town, probably at Unety (Unote) on Meherrin River. The next
day he divided the militia into companies of fifty men each with captains
over them. The Tuscaroras came with their guard and PETER POYTHRESS, an
Indian trader and interpreter. The Governor reviewed the cavalry, drew up
the militia in formation, and made the Indians walk from one end to the
other. This impressed the Indians greatly. They agreed to deliver two
children of the great men of each Indian town to remain as hostages and be
educated at the school for Indians at William and Mary College. This
proposal was renewed to the Virginia Tributary Indians who already had sent
some children there because if freed them from paying the yearly tax of
twenty beaver skins.
"As a result of the Indian disturbances in North Carolina and Virginia,
the General Assembly passed, in November 1711, the Act Appointing Rangers
of the frontiers. The commanders, appointed by Spotswood, could choose
their own eleven men with horses, arms and ammunition. The Assembly voted
the sum of L1000 to be used by the militia and Tributary Indians to help
North Carolina. It was not needed at this time, but the money was used
later.
"Some of the Senecas who had helped the Tuscaroras were killed by a party
of Tributary Indians. This caused the Northern Indians to raid the
frontiers, steal from the Indian traders, and murder some of the frontier
settlers. As a result, parties of Rangers were kept in each frontier
county.
"In December 1713 Governor Spotswood told the Assembly of his plans for
forts on the frontiers. After making treaties with the Sapony, Nottoway,
and Tuscarora Indians who agreed to make peace and come under the
protection of Virginia, the Council and Governor decided that the forts
should be built at the proposed Indian settlements. However, the
Tuscaroras who had fled to the upper Roanoke and who had intimated they
would like to settle in Virginia and become tributaries, changed their
minds and returned to North Carolina.
"In July 1714, Governor Spotswood started out on his six-week expedition
to the southern frontier to carry out the provisions of the treaties he had
made. At this time Colonel John Allen, of Surry, laid out the tract of
land, six miles square (23,040 acres) on both sides of Meherrin River, on
which the Indians would settle. This was in later Brunswick County, near
Lawrenceville [in present-day Brunswick County]. The Sapony, Occoneechee,
Stuckanox, and Totero Indians were to settle on the south side of the
river. They spoke the same language but preserved their different rules.
The Nottoways and Meherrins were to settle on the north. They could not
live peacefully with their traditional enemies, the Saponies. The Notto
ways and Meherrins, however, decided not to move from their old lands but
to remain where they were.
"Governor Spotswood named the settlement Christ-Anna (or Christanna) in
honor of Christ and Queen Anne. He placed there a guard of twelve white
men and an officer. They were to range, two or three of them at a time,
with ten or twelve Indians. In times of danger they would range the woods
between the settlements from Roanoke River to the Appomattox.
"The Guard of the Fort and the men of the Virginia Indian Company were
entitled to use the land within the six mile limit. At this time the
nearest inhabitants lived fifteen miles east, at Hicksford [present-day
Emporia, county seat of Greensville County].
"In 1714 the Assembly decided to reduce the Rangers to four troops
consisting each of six men and an officer, besides the guard at Fort
Christanna. The guard was paid for two years out of the unused money that
had been raised to help North Carolina. The remainder of the money was to
go towards finish-ing the fortifications and for other services. At the
end of two years the Indian Company would pay the guard. None of the
twenty-eight Rangers were ever employed to keep guard in Christanna, but
some would have visited there for supplies.
"Some of the Indians settled at Christanna while Spotswood was there in
the summer of 1714. At this time he placed a teacher among them, Charles
Griffin, whose salary of ?50 a year he paid. He later wrote to the Bishop
of London that he had also conferred with Mr. Forbes, a clergyman, to
settle there, but 'his retiring soon after into a married State, has
chang'd his inclinations.'
"The Virginia Indian Company, 'a joint stock company open to all
Virginians then engaged in the Indian trade,' was established by an act of
the Assembly in 1714, with headquarters at Christanna. The twenty members,
paying between ?50 and ?100 per member, elected Spotswood as president of
the com-pany. Its purpose was to regulate and conduct the trade between
the Indians and the Virginians. Formerly the Virginia Assembly had
licensed men as Indian Traders in an effort to control their conduct. Some
of the traders had cheated the Indians, sometimes by getting them drunk.
The Indians knew of no other way to avenge themselves other than by
killing any whites they met, or by stealing from them. Now the Indians
were required to bring their goods to one place, Fort Christanna, for
trading in open market, under the regulation of the Indian Company.
"Among the obligations of this Company was that of building, at its own
expense, a school house for the Indian children. In 1720 a reference is
made to Griffin's school on a creek about six miles west of Fort
Christanna, at one of the Indian towns, probably on Genito Creek or on
Avent's Creek. Whether this was the same as the original remains to be
seen.
"In March 1715 the Governor went again to Christanna. This time he
settled 300 Saponies there. They had seventy children at the school where
the children learned to read, write and speak English, and were taught
about the Lord Jesus Christ. They soon learned to say the Lord's Prayer,
the Ten Command-ments, and the Creed.
[Comment: Was this the resettlement referred to in John Wall's patent?]
"On this trip he completed the building of the fort itself, 'on a high
eminence' on the south side of Meherrin River (now just south of
Lawrenceville, on route 686). It was a few miles east of the old
Occa-neechee or Western Trading Path, the main artery of trade and travel
from North to South.
"In 1716 a man wrote from Chowan, North Carolina, to Richard Beresford, 'I
am just returned from Virginia where I was informed that the fort built at
Christ Anna by Col. Spotswood was finished. It lyes on Meherrin River
abough a small dies march from Moratoke [old name for Roanoke River], and
about 50 or 60 miles from some part of James River and Appamatocks River.
The fort consists of five large pentagonal log-houses which serve for
bastions, and a curtain of mault [split] wood with earth on the inside from
one house to another. Each house has a great gun 1400 lb. Each, etc?
"'I say [saw] abundance of iron, steel, and other utensils carring
thither. There is a couple of forges sett upp?'
"This description coincides with that of Jacques Fontaine who accompanied
Governor Spotswood to Christanna in 1716. In his 'Memoirs' he said it was
an 'inclosure of five sides, made only with pali-sades, and instead of five
bastions, there are five houses; each side of the five sides is 100 yards
long.'
"The Virginia Indian Company had built bridges and roads and constructed
the wooden building at the Fort. At the center of the fort was the
magazine. Here were kept the powder, ammunition, guns, and small cannon
ordered to be sent there in May 1715. This building may have been
eight-sided, about twelve feet high and fifteen feet across, with a pole at
the top for the flag. It would have had a floor about two feet above
ground to insure keeping the powder dry.
"It had been ordered that the cannon already at the fort be mounted.
These large pieces of cannon (five or six feet long) were mounted on
wooden carriages within each of the five pentagonal buildings. These
buildings must have been at least fifteen feet wide to accommodate and use
the cannon. A supply of round ball for the cannon and a keg of powder were
also kept on a wooden floor in each building. After the cannon was loaded,
its barrel was projected through a gunport.
"The Guard fired the morning gun each day, to establish the time and test
the powder. It might also have impressed on the Indians that there were
guns defending the Fort.
"Within the fort were warehouses for the furs bought from the Indians and
for the supply of Euro-pean trade goods. There would have been a crib for
corn to feed the horses, a building to store smoked meat and other food,
such as the 'two thousand weight of Bisquet' ordered to be sent to the Fort
in May 1715 'for the subsistence of the forces drawn there for the security
of the frontiers.' There would have been a building for them to cook and
eat in, with a well nearby. Other buildings would have been one and two
room sleeping quarters, and a building to house any slaves who grew the
supply of hay and corn for the horses and food for the men. There was at
least one blacksmith shop.
"The land for the fort, and the land around it, was cleared as far as a
'musket shot' - at least 100 yards. All large trees within one-half mile
would have been cut down, as the cannon at that time was accurate for at
least one-half mile, although their projected range was one mile.
"Fontaine wrote that while at Christanna, he and the Governor laid out an
avenue one-half mile long. The Chowan letter-writer stated: 'The Gov. is
now building a handsome house near Christanna, where he intends to live
when he shall be out of the government. It will cost him 5 or L600 sterl.
and divers other people encouraged by the governor's example are setling
plantations that way ? it is expected to be a place of note.' Apparently
the Governor hoped to establish a town here.
"Spotswood wrote to the Bishop of London on 3 May 1716 asking for a
contribution towards building a church at Christanna and establishing a
minister there. He said, 'Abundance of people, tempted by the goodness of
the Land, are seating near that place, but are above 60 Miles from any
parish Church. These would willingly contribute as much as they are able
towards the support of a Minister, and in a few years, I dout not, their
Number will be so increas'd as that a parish may be erected there. I have
already set apart a Tract of very good land for a Glebe, and am now
building a house which a Minister may have the use of for his residence,
and I am per-swaded if a good man be sent in, the Indian Company will not
be wanting on their part to give him all suitable Encouragement ?'
"Fountaine told of the headmen of the Sapony Indians bringing skins to the
Governor at the fort. He said they were fond of ceremony. Even if they
could speak English, when they spoke of anything concerning their nation,
it was spoken in their tongue through an interpreter. They would not
answer any questions unless they were asked in their own language.
"Governor Spotswood and Fontaine 'went to a nearby Saponey village, about
a musketshot away [from the fort]. It lieth on a plain by the river, the
houses join all the one to the other, and altogether make a circle. All
doors [are] on [the] inside of [the] circle, and the ground with-inside is
common between all people to divert themselves. In [the] center is [a]
great stumpt of a tree - for one of their headmen to stand on when he makes
a talk.'
"The houses were large, with no light except from the doors, and had holes
in the roof to let out the smoke. They used pots, wooden dishes and trays.
There were small divisions in the houses to sleep in, mats of bullrushes,
and bedsteads raised about two feet from the ground, upon which lay skins
and blan-kets.
"'Between the town and the river are several whittle [sic] huts built of
wattles [grass plastered with clay] in the form of an oven - big enough to
hold a man - sweating houses.'
"It was the custom for the Indians to surrender their arms whenever they
entered the Fort. On 9 April 1717 the Governor went to Christanna to meet
the Great Men of the Catawbas and other Western Indians who, having been
promised goods at cheap rates at the Fort, had brought with them some of
their children to be hostages and educated at the school. Next day the
Indians, lying unarmed in their camp about 50 yards from the Fort, were
attacked suddenly at dawn by a party of the Senecas and Tuscaroras, who
killed five, one of whom was Queen of the Catawbas. They wounded two, and
carried off five prison-ers including the Chief of the Catawbas, one of the
greatest and most influential Indians in the South. The Indians suspected
the English of being traitors. They were finally persuaded otherwise, and
left eleven children at the school. One the prisoners who escaped reported
later that the Iroquois had come down to surprise the Saponies, and
threatened to return soon to massacre the whole tribe and any of the whites
who might try to befriend them."		07/02/1997 8:30:26
Fort Christanna, Pt 2James L. PooleFollowing is the last of the Fort Christanna history....

"True or not, this caused great fear among the English settlers and
traders. The men hired by the Indian Company to guard their caravans and
cargo were so afraid that it was hard to find one who would go out on that
service. The Indian Company had spent nearly L3000 for horses, supplies,
and provisions, and advanced money to several of the men. Now it was
doubtful that they would be able to send out their cargo this summer
because they lacked enough men to guard it. Usually about forty men went
out together to trade with the Western Indians.
"Soon after this, the Act for Better Regulating the Indian Trade was
repealed and the Virginia Indian Company was dissolved. On 12 November
1717 the Governor reminded the Council that formerly the Indian Company had
kept up the Fort of Christanna, maintained the Guard, and supported the
hostages of the Southern Indians, and asked how these would be taken care
of in the future. The Northern Indians were threatening to destroy the
Tributary Indians settled at the Fort, and recently they had murdered some
of the English settled at Roanoke River. The Fort was intended to defend
them.
"The Council recommended to the former members of the Indian Company that
they continue repairing the fortifications, keep the same Guard as in the
past, and take care of the hostages until the General Assembly should make
some decision about them. The Government would reimburse the Com-pany for
their expenses. The Council also recommended that the Governor encourage
members of the late Indian Company to continue their trade, and that he
continue the same allowance to the school master as he had in the past.
"On 31 May 1718 the General Assembly decided not to keep up the Fort. The
was nothing the Council could do about it.
"As a result, several men employed by the Indian Company for the Guard of
Fort Christanna became mutinous and disorderly, refused sentinel duty, and
so exposed the Fort and the hostages there to great danger because the
northern Indians were again on the frontier. The Council ordered that the
com-mander, Captain Robert Hicks or any other person the late company had
employed for the management of their affairs, be given power to correct or
punish any of the Company servants who refused to do their duty. If they
tried to desert, Captain Hicks was to order out parties of Indians to
pursue and bring them back.
"The northern Indians went so far as to send a message to the officer who
commanded the Fort, demanding that the Sapony Indians (their enemies) be
delivered over to them. Therefore, in the summer of 1718, Spotswood moved
all of the Sapony Indians into the Fort for their protection.
"In 1719 the Governor of Pennsylvania wrote to the Virginia Council that
the northern Indians had marched toward Virginia with the intention of
testing the strength of the English at Fort Christanna. The Council
decided to halt any attempted march through Virginia. The Militia was
ordered not to shoot until shot at. The Virginia Tributary Indians were
ordered to notify the Government if any northern Indians arrived at their
towns.
"There are local traditions of a fierce fight between the Saponies and the
Genitoes (northern Indi-ans). Bullets have been plowed up in the low
grounds on the north side of the Meherrin River, opposite the Fort site.
"After the creation of Brunswick County in 1720, the region around the
Fort and beyond was becoming well-settled. All Indians were required to
get a passport to go through settled country.
"On 13 June 1723 the Council heard a petition of Thomas Jones in behalf of
the late Virginia Indian Company, in which the former members asked to be
reimbursed for their expenses in repairing the fortifications of
Christanna, according to the orders of the Governor, dated 12 November
1717. The Council ordered that they be paid. This seems to be about the
time that the officers and men left the Fort permanently.
"The Sapony Indians were still occupying the Fort in 1728 when Colonel
William Byrd went on the expedition to lay out the dividing line between
North Carolina and Virginia. On his return trip, he stopped at the
plantation of George Hix (Hicks) on Meherrin River, near present Diamond
Grove. The Grandees of the Sapony Nation came to the plantation to meet
him, as one of their number, Bearskin, had gone on the journey as guide and
hunter. Byrd wrote that the Indians had come on horseback, which, he said
'was certainly a Piece of State, because the Distance was but three Miles,
and 'tis likely they had walk't a foot twice as far to catch their Horses.'
"In the spring of 1729 the Governor received news that the Sapony Indians
had made no preparation for planting corn; it seemed probable that they
were preparing to leave the Fort. The inhabitants of Brunswick County were
apprehensive, fearing that the Indians might make trouble as they left.
The Coun-cil appointed someone to go with the interpreter, Charles
Kinball, to the Indian Town to observe what preparations they were making
to continue there, so that suitable measures might be taken for protecting
the inhabitants. The Journals of the Executive Council, in October 1729,
state that 'the Sapony ? have lately deserted their settlement ? [in
Virginia] and joined the ? Cattawba Indians.'
"In 1730 the members of the late Virginia Indian Company petitioned for
1000 acres 'where Fort Christanna stood,' on the south side of the Meherrin
River and back into the woods, and 1000 acres on the north side of the
river. They also requested that 23,040 acres of land formerly assigned for
the Sapony Indians be laid out and granted to the petitioners who pointed
out that they had invested money in buildings and improvements at the Fort.
This was done.
"In June 1733 the Sapony and Nottoway Indians met with the Governor and
Council. The Sapo-nies were given permission to join the Tuscaroras if
they wished, provided that neither Nation would hunt on any lands patented
in Virginia, nor go among the inhabitants in groups of more than three.
The Sapo-nies were permitted to stay at their town until their corn was
gathered. If they decided not to join the Tuscaroras, they were to move to
some place beyond the inhabitants between the Roanoke and Appomattox
rivers.
"Soon after this they all left the Fort. Some joined the Catawbas, and
some eventually joined the Five Nations of the Iroquois in New York.
"After the Indians left the region, all their former lands were taken up
in grants. The site of the Fort became known as Fort Hill Plantation. In
1847 an iron cannon was still on the hill. One cannon exploded in
Lawrenceville when fired during Cleveland's inauguration; another was taken
to William and Mary College. Tradition says three are in the Fort's old
well.
"The road that went by the Fort, from Gholsonville to the lower-cut banks
on Nottoway River, became known as Fort Road, eastward it crossed the
Meherrin at Hickford (Emporia), then on to James River. Among the owners
of Fort Hill Plantation, by which the road went, was the Jones family,
descen-dants of Benjamin Jones of Greensville. The present owner is Mr.
Clyde Butler of Lawrenceville.
"On 24 September 1923 the Colonial Dames purchased from T. E. Jones, N. S.
Jones, and W. M. McAden 3 ? acres 'being that portion of the tract of land
known as 'Fort Hill' plantation, which includes the site of the frontier
fort erected in the year 1714?' However, recent topographical studies
indicate that the actual Fort site is not at the monument but is nearby.
"The Colonial Dames brought the story of Christanna to a fitting
conclusion. On 24 May 1924 they had a dedication ceremony at the site
where they placed a cannon as a monument. Pamunkey Indians from the
reservation in King William County were present in tribal dress."		07/02/1997 8:32:10
Data"Early Deaths in Savannah, Georgia-1763-1803, Obutuaries and Legal Notices"
Compiled by Ga. Historical Society, Savannah, Ga.

Poythrus, Thomas: Burke County; George Poythrus, Patsey Poythrus, ltrs. admr.
Columbian Museum [newspaper], 11/18/1800, 2:1

"Laurens County, Ga. Legal Records Superior Court 1833-1857", Deed Book K

Poythress, George (pg 314-316) 4/15/1842.

John C. Poythress, executor of the estate of George Poythress, late of the
territory of Florida, sold to Charles S. Guyton of Laurens County. For the
sales price of $800, land sold was L. L. # 159, 187, 189,190. Also sold was
53 acres in L. L. # 204, 84 acres in L. L. # 205, 146 acres in L. L. 206, and
37 1/2 acres in L. L. # 207. This land was the George Poythress plantation
on the Oconee River. (no land district stated but it would have to be the 1st
Land District) Deed prepared in Burke County, Georgia and the sale was the
result of an order from the Ordinary Court of Burke County. Deed witnessed
by T. H. Blount and by Notary Public Thomas Moore Benan.

Maynard		07/02/1997 8:57:16
Prince George County VA Records6 Aug 1787 Colin Cocke of Prince George County to Thomas Harrison of same,
for L 324/12 200 acres bounded by James River, Flower de hundred Creek, and
lands of WILLIAM POYTHRESS, being land where said Colin now lives. Witness:
William Harrison, James Brodie, Lemuel Harrison. Recorded 12 Feb 1788

15 Aug 1791 John Baird and Charles Duncan, executors of Robert Boyd,
deceased, of 1st part; William Mayo, executor of PETER POYTHRESS, deceased,
and ELIZABETH POYTHRESS, widow of PETER POYTHRESS of 2nd part; and James
Cureton of PG County of 2rd part; Whereas Walter Boyd, by his will devised to
his wife the use of lots and house where he lived in Blandord as long as she
should live there and afterward to leave them to his brother Robert Boyd.
After his death, she gutted said houses and surrended them to his brother
Robert Boyd. In his will said Robert empowered his executors to sell. The
executors sold to PETER POYTHRESSS, but he died before conveyance was made.
In his will he said that his wife and his son in law William Mayo, had power
to sell. They have thus sold land to James Cureton. Lands sold for L900 and
are bounded by Appomattow River, Thomas Godron's corner, the Creek, Richard
Taylor, and include 2 lots #34 and #47, in the whole 15 acres.
Witnesses (for William Mayo) John Thweatt, John Batte and Robert Stewart, SR;
for (Baird and Duncan) Joseph Weisiger, Edmund Harrison, John Baird, JR.; for
(ELIZABETH POYTHRESS) Joseph Weisigner, John Baird, Jr..., Robert Stewart,
Sr. Recorded 11 Oct 1791		07/02/1997 12:33:27
Re: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)Albert R. TimsLou,

I agree with you 100 percent. Not only is this great family history and
likely to help clarify the extent and nature of the connections, but it is
an important part of the early history of this country. Can you give me
the location of Ft. Christiana? The new maps I announced yesterday list a
number of the families living near the Poythress boys on Butterwood. Not
shown (yet) are those immediately to the south on the Nottaway. Among
these are the Wall, Irby (recall that Charles was selected as the guardian
of William Poythress in 1738 - orphan of John Poythress of Jordans),
Hardaway, Crawley, etc. Basically, every name mentioned in association
with the Indian Company seems to have owned land in this area. The
Poythress seem to have been geographically located right in the middle of
the group.

A footnote: George Booth is shown from 1719 with property that appears to
be adjancent to lands owned by William Poythress and Sloman Wynne. What is
interesting is that my 7.5 minute topographical map (De Witt Quadrangle)
still shows a small Booth Cemetery still standing at this location. It
also shows a very small unnamed cemetery near where Rockey Run branches off
Stony Creek. Looks to be at the end of a dirt road. Without question --
this was once Poythress land. I'd say the odds of this being a Poythress
graveyard are pretty slim, but wouldn't it be fun to go take a look (close
to where 645 joins 637 and turns north).

I hope we'll continue to work this topic.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: James L. Poole
> To: 'POYTHRESS List'
> Subject: Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress?)
> Date: Tuesday, July 01, 1997 10:53 PM
>
> The following is somewhat lengthy, and is probably only of interest to
> those who might have been following the Hicks-Ransom-Wall (& Poythress)
> discussion.
>
> The above families were indeed very close, though I haven't discovered
> exactly in what way(s). The following are some Brunswick records that
> connect them:
>
> "William Lucas, 1130 acs. (O. & N.L.), Surry Co.; on S. side of the
Little
> Cr. Of the Three Creeks; adj. Col. Nathaniel Harrison; near head of the
> Myery Br; Robert Hicks; & Capt. Thomas Goodwin's line; 25 Aug. 1731. 300

> acs. granted Henry Peebles, 5 Sep 1723; 230 acs. granted sd. Lucas, 22
Feb.
> 1724; 600 acs. being waste land adj. 45 Shill., and Imp. Of 3 pers: John

> Wall, Roger Richards & James Gristin."
>
> "Will. 7 May 1744. I, Frances Hicks of B, being sick and weak but in
> perfect senses?
> I order that no appraisement be made of my estate.
> Signed - Frances Hicks. Wit - John Wall, Henry Beddingfeild, William
> Beddingfeild.
> At a Court held for B 5 Jul 1744, this will of Frances Hicks, widow
deced,
> was presented in court by James Hicks, one of the executors, and the same

> was proved by the oaths of John Wall, Gent, and Henry Beddinfeild, two of

> the witnesses?"
>
> "15 Oct 1747 from George Hicks of St Andrew's Parish in B, Gent, to
Robert
> Jones Jr of the Parish of Albemarle in the County of Surry, Atty at Law,
> for 400 ?, all that tract of about 1310 acres of land in St Andrew's
Parish
> & B on the north side of Meherrin River?
> Commission and certificate. To John Willis, Timothy Rives, George Wych,
> John Wall, and Richard Ransom, Gentlemen, Greeting. Sarah cannot
> conveniently travel to our County Court or to our General Court of
Virginia
> to acknowledge the conveyance. You are therefore given the power to
> receive her acknowledgement by personally going to Sarah."
> "Will. 27 Jun 1748. I, Richard Ransom of St Andrew's Parish in B, being

> sick and weak but of sound memory?
> Executors: my trusty friends Colo John Wall and Colo Nath'll Edwards.
And
> I appoint them, or the sur-vivor of them, to be guardian to my 2 sons,
> James and Robin, whom I desire they may have bound apprentices when they
> come to the age of 16. Signed - Richard Ranone. Wit - Saml Bennett,
John
> Wall Jr
> At a court held for B on 6 Oct 1748, this will was presented by the
exors,
> who refused to take upon them-selves the burden of the execution, and the

> same was proved by the oath of Samuel Bennett, a witness, and OR. On the

> motion of the Francis, the widow and relict of the said testator, with
John
> Wall and Nathaniel Edwards, Gent, her securities, entered into and
> acknowledged bond?"
> "Inventory and appraisement of the estate of Richard Ransom dec'd?
> Per B Court order, we appraised the estate. Signed 26 Jan 1748 - John
Wall
> Jr, Benja Seawell, George Wyche.."
>
> "5 Jun 1746 from Isaac House of St Andrew's Parish in B, to Richard
Ransom
> (Ramsom) of same, for 35 ?, one certain tract of about 84 acres of land
on
> the north side of the three Creeks in B, and bounded by the creek a
little
> above the Mill. Signed - Isaac (X his mark) House. Wit - John Wall Jr,
> James Maclin."
>
> "Lease and Release. 15 May 1746 from David Crawley of Prince George
> County, mariner, to John Wall the younger of B, Gent, for 60 ?, one
certain
> tract of about 240 acres of land on the north side of Meherrin River in
B,
> and bounded by [trees]. The land was patented to David Crawley, the
> father, deceased, on 18 Feb 1722, and descends to the said David Crawley
as
> heir at law. Signed - David Crawley. Wit - George Wallton, Michael
Wall,
> Richard Ransom, Matthias Davis, John Butler, Walter Campbell. Re-corded
4
> Sep 1746."
>
> We know that Robert Hicks (and family) were involved in the Indian trade
> from a charter provided by Al Tims a few days ago. We know that Peter
> Poythress was also involved with the Indian trade, at least as an
> interpreter. A careful examination of the Brunswick and Surry records
will
> reveal that Captain Thomas Goodwin, mentioned above, was a sea captain,
and
> involved in the Indian trade, and that David/Daniel Crawley (also
mentioned
> above) was similarly engaged. I have yet to place the Ransoms with this
> group, but I'll bet they were coharts.
>
> John Wall, Jr., married -- I believe -- Ann Poythress, daughter of Joshua

> Poythress of Martin's Hundred, and Flowerdew, which establishes the
> Poythress-Wall tie. Since I do not know to whom John Wall, Sr., was
first
> married, it is conceivable that he married a daughter of one of the above

> families. The following patent establishes the fact that John Wall was
> also somehow involved in the Indian affairs of the area.
>
> "John Wall, of Pr. Geo. Co.; 100 acs. (N.L.), Is. Of Wight Co; on S. side

> of Maherin River; near lower end of the Dutchman's Meadow; 17 Dec. 1717.
> For service performed towards making the new settlement for the Saponie
> Indians at Christianna, &c."
>
> All the above named men were living at, or frequent visitors to, the area

> near what is called Christiana Old Fort (in fact John Wall settled only
two
> miles from it). Robert Hicks was the commander of the militia unit in
> charge of guarding it. Fort Christiana was established by Governor
> Spotswood as an Indian trading post and settlement. In the early 1700's
it
> was governed by a privately chartered company known as the Indian
Company.
> I'm reasonably sure that all the named men were either members of the
> Indian Company, or were employed by it. Even more compelling are the
> following quotes taken from a history of Fort Christiana: "The Guard of
> the Fort and the men of the Virginia Indian Company were entitled to use
> the land within the six mile limit."
>
> And...
>
> "The Virginia Indian Company, 'a joint stock company open to all
Virginians
> then engaged in the Indian trade,' was established by an act of the
> Assembly in 1714, with headquarters at Christanna. The twenty members,
> paying between ?50 and ?100 per member, elected Spotswood as president of

> the company. Its purpose was to regulate and conduct the trade between
the
> Indians and the Virginians. Formerly the Virginia Assembly had licensed
> men as Indian Traders in an effort to control their conduct. Some of the

> traders had cheated the Indians, sometimes by getting them drunk. The
> Indians knew of no other way to avenge themselves other than by killing
any
> whites they met, or by stealing from them. Now the Indians were required

> to bring their goods to one place, Fort Christanna, for trading in open
> market, under the regulation of the Indian Company."
>
> I believe from the information above that a lot of our family connections

> would be revealed if we could find the records, especially the membership

> and militiamen, of the Indian Company. I have yet to find these.
>
> Lou Poole		07/02/1997 12:35:18
Re: Poythress>PockrusAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'm anxious to hear more about what Lyn Baird might have on the Pockrus -
Poythress hypothesis. Lyn, do you have a line you can post? Do any of
your Pockrus folks connect with those "collected" by Helene over the years?
I've posted some of Helene's information on the web page (queries and
research notes page). Anything more you can share will be helpful. We've
been scratching our heads, but haven't been able to give Helene much of
anything to prove/disprove the Pockrus-Poythress connections.

Best,

Al Tims

07/02/1997 12:53:52
RePockrus-Portriss!-Thank Goodness not Rachmaninoff!Marion & Helene PockrusGot this in my mail tonight:
Hi all,

Hope this doesn't make anyone nervous.

> > Subject: Pregnancy Pain Transfer (fwd
> >
> > A married couple went to the hospital together to have their baby
delivered.
> > Upon their arrival, the doctor said he had invented a new machine that
would
> > transfer a portion of the mother's labor pain to the father. He asked
if they
> > were willing to try it out. They were both very much in favor of it.
> >
> > The doctor set the knob to 10 percent for starters, explaining that
even 10
> > percent was probably more pain than the father had ever experienced
before.
> > But as the labor progressed, the husband felt fine, so he asked the
doctor to
> > go ahead and bump it up a notch. The doctor then adjusted the machine
to 20
> > percent pain transfer.
> >
> > The husband was still feeling fine. The doctor checked the husband's
blood
> > pressure and pulse and was amazed at how well he was doing. At this,
they
> > decided to try for 50 percent.
> >
> > The husband continued to feel quite well. Since it was obviously
helping out
> > his wife considerably, he encouraged the doctor to transfer ALL the
pain to
> > him. The wife delivered a healthy baby with virtually no pain. She and
her
> > husband were ecstatic.
> >
> > When they got home, the mailman was dead on their porch.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX Subject: SIRNAMES Threw History
>
> Cynthia Crigler posted this today on the GERMANNA_COLONIES-L
> List and I thought you might be interested. It does indeed explain
> why names have different spellings and sometimes why we have
> problems in our research. Can you imagine that one of your
> ancestors was named RACHMANINOFF? Would this person
> perhaps have written it down as ROCKMEOFF? ROCKETMANOFF?
> ROCKMANANDOFF? The possibilities are endless.
>
> SgtGeorge
>
> ===========
>
> >>Listowner Note: The following is a real note sent from a census
> >>taker in the 1800s to the government. This may explain why a
> >>lot of us have variations in the spellings of our names. LOL
> >>
> >>centsus rekurds "I am a cencus taker for the city of Bufflow. Our
> >>city has groan very fast in resent years and now, in 1865, it has
> >>becum a hard and time consooming job to count all the peephill.
> >>Thare is not meny that can do this werk, as it is necesarie to
> >>have a ejucashun, which a lot of pursons still do not have. Another
> >>atribeart needed for this job is good speling, for meny of the
> >>peephill to be caounted can hardle speek inglish, let alone spel
> >>there name."
>
> ===========
>
> George W. Durman
> sgtgeorg@concentric.net
>		07/03/1997 1:33:22
Answer to More on Robert HicksStarrHello POYTHRESS researchers,
Here's another from Lea which should interest all of you. I feel
there's something in here -- just can't make the connection. Linda

From: "Lea L. Dowd"

>Linda,
>
>Your group may be interested in several interesting facts. I do not claim
>or profess to be an expert on Native American history. However in my own
>search for ancestors, I have been forced to learn all that I can on this
>subject. I do not want to get really involved with this or to write a novel
>but....
>
>1) Capt. Robert Hicks is the son of Robert Hicks, Sr. the Taylor. He is
>also the brother to MY direct line of John Hicks.
>
>Book 7 PP 395 & 396 24 Oct 1701
>John Poythris, Senr. Deep Bottom, 350 acres Charles City Co. N side of
>Nottaway River adj 950 acres patented by Hugh Lee, Jr. (and sold to William
>Jones, Sr., Robert Hix, the taylor, Senr., and John Roberts); to fork of
>Myery Br., parting Tonatora old field, to the Indian SW, 24 Oct, 1701
>Transporatation of 7 persons; John Lee, Robert Boreman, HUMPHREY HIX, Hen.
>Snetgrove, Mary Drin, N. Satinbach, Wm. Lambut. (ref C & P Vol 3, P. 52)
>
>
>2) If you closely examine VA legal records of land, you will find that the
>property owned by Hicks and others included land designated to Native
>Americans. References in early records to Tontorora and Warwick Swamp were
>designated Native American land. Laws had to be passed for the Natives to
>sell their property. I am in the process now of mapping this land and
>showing how and when it was passed.
>
>PB 6 P. 536 Charles City Co., VA, 30 Oct. 1686
>Mr. Samuel Tatum, 803A Bristol Parish place known as Warrockbock begin at
>John Smith to Mr. Henry Batt, crossing the 2nd SW, to land of Hugh Lee for
>transp. of 17 persons.
>
>Note: Hugh Lee, III married Samuel Tatum's daughter Ann.
>This patent was never signed as the surveyor Thomas Ligon showed that it
>did possibly encroach on Native American land.
>
>PB 9 P.405 & 406
>Thomas Wyn 200 acres Charles City Co., S side of Jones Hole adj. to land of
>Hugh Lee, Jr. now in possesion of Wm. Jones, Sr., Robert Hix, Sr. and John
>Roberts.
>
>3) The laws clearly disallowed any claims or patents that had been made on
>Native American properties.
>4) However, many of this lines properties remained intact. Fifty years
>later, descendants were selling this property.
>
>
>Surry Co., VA DB 3:317
>1739 Rec: 1741 Deed between John Bolling, Fra. Epes and Henry Randolph of
>the Co. of Henrico and Thomas Eldridge of the Co. of Surry - 5 shillings -
>one tract containing 623A & 14 poles in Co. of Prince George known by the
>name of Waugh-rick -- got by patent Nov 20, 1682 unto Wm. Randolph and
>Robert Bolling, Gent. and afterwards 1/3 of said land sold by Wm. Randolph
>and Robt. Bolling unto Fra. Epes, Gent. and the said Bolling and Epes by
>said tripartite deed 3 Feb 1684 gave the said land unto the afsd John
>Bolling, Fra. Epes & Henry Randolph by and at the corner oak of HUGH LEE -
>Main Waughrick Swamp - for the term of one year. Wit: Drury Bolling, Fra,
>Eppes, Jr., Rich. Kennon
>Note: This land stayed patented. How can this be? All previous patents
>that encroached on Native lands were disallowed....
>
>PB 6 Charles City Co., VA, 8 Apr 1674
>Hugh Lee - 2000 acres named "Aberconaway" in Charles City Co. for transp.
>of 40 persons including; Thomas Clark, Phill. Pledge, ROBERT HICKS, Jno.
>Burges, Rebecka Love, Jno. Floyd, Tho. Stanley, Sara King, Jno Allen.
>
>Aberconaway was also Native land. If memory sevres me correct, this land
>later fell in Southampton Co.
>
>Patent Book 7 PP 395 & 396 24 Oct 1701
>John Poythris, Senr. Deep Bottom, 350 acres Charles City Co. N side of
>Nottaway River adj 950 acres patented by Hugh Lee, Jr. (and sold to William
>Jones, Sr., ROBERT HIX, the taylor, Senr., and John Roberts; to fork of
>Myery Br., parting Tonatora old field, to the Indian SW, 24 Oct, 1701
>Transporatation of 7 persons; John Lee, Robert Boreman, HUMPHREY HIX, Hen.
>Snetgrove, Mary Drin, N. Satinbach, Wm. Lambut. (ref C & P Vol 3, P. 52)
>
>PB 9 P.405 & 406
>Thomas Wyn 200 acres Charles City Co., S side of Jones Hole adj. to land of
>Hugh Lee, Jr. now in possesion of Wm. Jones, Sr., Robert Hix, Sr. and John
>Roberts.
>
>Charles City Co. Land Patents Bk. 8 P. 369
>Robert Hickes, 600A, Charles City Co., Bristol Parish & on the S. side of
>Appamatuck Rive vizt. beg. at a corner white oake belonging to the land of
>John Evans, and runs thence SSW -- then SW by S -- then SW -- thence S --
>thence SSW 58 po. to the line of Mr. James Cock, then on his line WNW 185
>po. crossing the second SW to a great pine and a Round Pond, thence NE by E
>--- thence NNW 26 po. and NW 68 po. & NW 3/4 W 15 po. to a corner line N --
>to the place where it began. The sd. land was due by Trans. of 12 psons.,
>20 Apr 1694.
>
>Chowan Co., NC DB 1 P. 86
>Arthur Kavanaugh of Meherrin River in ye Co. of Albemarle and Mary his wife
>to Robert Hicks of ye Co. of Prince George 20 April 1709 for 1 Indian slave
>and 18 pds; 1280 acres in 2 tracts excepting 1 small tract sold to Edward
>Goodridge and another small tract sold to Rolif Jackson the sd. 1280A being
>on the N. side of the Meherrin River and bounded by 2 patents; one dated 17
>Jul 1706 and ye other of ye aforesd. date all houses, buildings, gardens,
>orchards, etc. Wit: Jacob Cotton, Ralf Jackson, Joseph Evans. Reg. (not
>given)
>
>Chowan Co., NC DB 1 P. 87
>Arthur Kavanaugh of Meherrin River is held and firmly bound unto Robert
>Hicks of Prince George Co. 11 Apr 1709 in the sum of 96 pds. Sterling a
>mortgag of 1280 A. Wit: Jacob Collcon, John Evary. Reg. (not given)
>
>Arthur Kavanaugh/Cavanner was always in trouble with his land dealings.
>History speaks of him frequently. He would go in and occupy Native land
>and then claim squatter's rights.
>
>
>I think the point that I am trying to make, but not getting there is that
>to really understand this, you have to follow Native American history. I
>am trying to create a Tribal timeline of associations to better help me
>place these people. Not all Natives were friendly with each other. There
>were several major tribes. The Meherrin/Nottoway/Nansemond and others made
>up Powhatan's group. The Saponi were Iraquois. When reading slave
>records, you might be interested to know that "Mingo" was the name used for
>the Iraquois.
>
>I find it very intriguing that Capt. Robert Hicks was so friendly with the
>Meherrin and yet when Ft. Christianna was established, the Meherrin and
>Nottoways refused to go.
>
>Just a bunch of trivial persuit, but it may help someone.
>
>Lea
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/03/1997 3:24:49
Mrs. Dixon's GenealogyBelow is reply from Mrs. Dixon. I suppose I can charitably say the more I
read it the more befuddled I become. Mrs. Dixon is a lady hard to pin down.

I will say that any more retyping 4 single spaced pages of these Magnolia
scents and extracts of Wisteria may do me in.

Bud, it looks to me like she is saying Meredith, Sr. married Susan R. Maner
and presumably there never was a Meredith, Jr. or a Hester Wilder. Heck,
maybe she knows something....you think we ought to revisit all that Kathy
Best material once more...or forget it? And I'm still not sure if there was
one Thomas or two. And George seems to be moving around on us. And it now
appears that M. E. A. may be Thomas, Jr.'s daughter even though I'm not sure
there IS a Thomas, Sr. Bud, you have a better grasp on that bunch than any
of us, you want to try to do anything with this or just let it go?

Proposal: that I keep sending her Georgia stuff that we accumulate along
with nice letters without trying to engage her in any type of meaningful
analysis because her letter tells me she is just not up to that. If she is
indeed "much" older than my mother was ( I don't know how she knew that but
she said it on the phone) then she is "much over" 90 which would be my
mother's age if she were still alive. I guess she can get to the GDAH if she
says she can.

I'll keep up correspondence with her and try to gently propose questions that
would require a specific answer. And if she comes up with something that
looks to be significant I'll share it. That amounts to asking for group's
power of attorney to keep or not to keep, I suppose. I definitely don't
think we need to shrug Mrs. Dixon's work off because it seems that her
overall schematic makes some basic sense and may lead us somewhere. And there
is certainly no question that her heart is in the right place. I just don't
see her ever getting un-confused about the picture.

Anyone got any problems with that? Anybody want to do it differently? I
don't have any ego invested in this so please speak up if you have thoughts.

Thanks....Maynard

[square parentheses mine for comments on below]

4114-F Providence Rd.; Charlotte, N. C. 28211-4494 June
27,1997
704-366-2397

Mr. John Maynard Poythress
2903 Glen Hill Circle
Louisville, KY 40222 Re: Your June 21st Letter about
our Family

Dear Maynard,

I certainly did enjoy talking with you on the phone and appreciate so much
your above letter which contained so much information and the excellent copy
of the portrait of
Lt. William Poythress, and the ad material for your brother�s race for
Governor of Georgia. When he wins [I like her attitude], he will be the
second cousin I have had to occupy that office. I descend from Mary Moore
Irwin who married John Burney, Jr. in Burke County before the Revolution.
Her brother was Jared Irwin who served, I believe,
three times as governor. I do hope David wins.

The portrait of Lt. Poythress, I thought, of the Lt. William Poythress shown
as follows in the 1990 edition of the DAR Patriot Index, Part III, pg. 2358:
POYTHRESS, WILLIAM b. 1737 Va. d. 1783 Va. m. Elizabeth________.
1Lt CL VA. He had no sons - all daughters [I have had the
uniform identified as
�CL�, meaning Continental Line or Regular
Army as opposed to
militia].
The only other POYTHRESS listed is in the DAR P. III...is
POYTHRESS, PETER
b. 4-2-1733, d 12-19-87 m. Elizabeth Bland.

I was reminded, when we were talking, of the times your mother and I
conversed. She was so keenly interested in the family and that interest
inspired others. I am sure your family misses her very much.

I will respond to your chat letter in the attached pages.

Best
regards,

(s)
Martha M. Dixon


Poythress Family in Georgia by Martha Martin Dixon 6/27/97

After many years searching and the input of many people, including my new
friends Earl Hines in Georgia and John M. Poythress in Kentucky, I have begun
to believe that the four heads of family in Georgia, namely WILLIAM, FRANCIS,
THOMAS JAMES, AND MEREDITH POYTHRESS were brothers who left VA after January
23, 1786 (birthdate of of the daughter of Sheriff Thomas Poythress of Burke
County). At that time, Burke
County from old St. George�s Parish, extended south and and east and some of
this land later became Screven County. Francis stayed in Greene County (you
told me) and I know nothing about his family. In 1827, the state of Georgia
made land grants to Rev. soldiers who registered. By then, Thomas James
Poythress, Sheriff of Burke County, was dead and his son George was serving
as sheriff. But, Meredith in Screven and William, Sr. in Burke both signed,
stating that they were revolutionary soldiers. I believe Thomas James
Poythress was also. (A grant of land could be a blessing or a financial
drag.) If the land could be put to use by the man or his family, fine. If it
couldn�t taxes had to be paid either way. If the grant could be sold quickly
that was fine. If not, taxes went right on. Of course, the holder could
abandon the land to the county. There is no doubt in my mind that Thos. J.
Poythress, Sr. was a revolutionary soldier. That he, William and Meredith
were Rev. Sold. makes me believe they were siblings and cohorts. ( I know we
differ here).

Meredith kept interests in both Screven and Mecklenburg for a number of years
and returned several time to Va. Once, he served as sponsor at the marriage
of Miss Elizabeth Edwards, who, he declared, lived in the home of his father,
Thomas Poythress. I believe young Elizabeth was a niece or a ward of the
older Thomas. I was interested that one of Meredith P. Sr.�s grandchildren
was named ?Sarah? EDWARDS P. Coincidence? Maybe.

The reason I believe the Sheriff of Burke was Thomas James P. is that his
daughter, Martha Elizabeth Amanda P. Dixon named her Dixon children Robert J.
, Thomas James,
Harriet (for her brother, George P.�s wife, Hetty Carter P.) She named her
youngest child for second husband Laban Odom, James Poythress Odum. Her
second son, Thomas James Dixon, named his son Thomas James D. Jr.. Her third
Dixon son, William, also named his second son T. J. D. II.

Meredith P., Sr. married Edith, the daughter of William Cleaton, [pronounced
Clay-ton as Mrs. Dixon told me in phone conversation..whatever], and their
sons were Peter and (William?) Cleaton P. I believe Edith died before
Meredith sold his goods and went to Georgia. Both Peter and Cleaton received
land from their Cleaton grandfather and Meredith, of course, had to go back
to Virginia to discharge their obligations until they reached the age of 21.
It was Peter, living in Screven County, Ga. with his father, selling his
Mecklenburg County, Va. land that sent me back to Mecklenburg County.


-2-
Meredith Poythress, RS [typo for SR.?] married second, in Georgia SUSAN R.
MANER, daughter of John Maner from South Carolina. See �The Families of
Burke County, 1755-1855, a Census� by Robert Scott Davis, Jr. pgs. 48 & 122.
p. 48. Mainer, John. Surveyed on Jan 10, 1760. Plat Bk C, pg. 404. Granted
on
Nov. 6, 1764. Grant Bk. E., pg. 73. 300 acres bounded on the northeast by
the
Savannah River. (He appears to have had a cousin or brother, William Maner
who
drew also.)
p. 122 Mainer, John, Dec. 1759, been 1 yr. in Ga., has wife, 4 children, and
1
slave, asks for 400 a. ,near Thomas Bell. (this is near the Sav. Riv. about
5 miles
above Stony Bluff in Burke County.
I�m sure the Governor [I guess she�s already making David governor] knows
that there are copies of the plats in the Surveyor General�s office that can
be had. They make great, personal, historical pictures for a den or office.
p. 207 Poythress, Meredith Scr. Gr. Bk. F5, pg 572, 56 acres
p. 207 Poythress, Meredith Scr. Gr. Bk. H5,pg. 487, 687 acres.
Plats of these last two grants can be obtained from the SG�s Office, also.

Of course, on your Maners, this means they were pioneers of Georgia. The
Maners of Lebanon Forrest (Wade Plantation) were not. Just rich.
Both William and Meredith Poythress registered as Rev. Sold. to receive land
in the 1827 land lottery. William did not take his up- don�t know if
Meredith took up his.
Now, with reference to the men having to prove they were in the Revolution,
they had to give convincing evidence that they were. They had to give name
of commanding officer and battles in which they served. Believe it or not,
those records exist in Georgia Archives. I learned this only recently from a
young cousin. I believe she will tell me where to find them. If we can,
that should cinch the Georgia Poythresses [? - I still got a million threads
dangling] . Will try to get this this weekend.. Never doubt that Meredith,
Thomas James and William served. Meredith was a highly respected member of
the Screven population. After the war, the veterans fell on very hard times.
But, I�m confident that your Meredith, Sr. was an honorable man. We�re
going to justify your mother�s faith.
[Mrs. Dixon here is referring to the fact that I made some comment to the
effect that my mother so dearly wanted Meredith to be a Rev. Sol. ....and
Mrs. Dixon also seems focussed, and assumes I am likewise focussed, on the
matter of proving a guy a Rev. Sold. and then by golly, you got it, so just
write it down and call it a day]

William Poythress, brother of Thomas Rev. Sold. was the father of Corp.
William Poythress, cousin of Major George P. William P. Jr. had land on the
Savannah River in what, after December 1793, was Screven County. Believe
Jr. married a Miss Lewis in Bertie County, NC (this is what lead me to
Bertie). William Jr,. had a son named James
(Thomas James?)

The Summer Colony at Bath? [I had asked what this was] Bath is a small
community out from Augusta. It, and another community call The Sandhills,
was just above the gnat line
[Georgians are so accustomed to using this term she doesn�t even put it in
quotes...the gnat line crosses Ga. just south of Augusta on the east to south
of Columbus, Ga. on the west....its the line above below which one has to
contend with gnats flying around one�s face in the summer time...above the
line there are no gnats...or practically none. Thought I should add that for
those unfamiliar with the term] and was far enough from the Sav. R. to be
virtually mosquito free. In the little town of Bath, the very wealthy
planters of Burke and Augusta built summer homes. It was a virtual fairyland
of all things nice about the old South. The butlers, maids, and other
servants were the cream of the plantation servants. [wonder if they thought
it was a fairyland too?] The residents had their own Congregational
Presbyterian Church and Minister - also Professor, Mr. Caldwell [?].

Because the Presbyterians and their minister were out of Waynesboro during
the summer, the Presbyterian Church did not flourish in Waynesboro. You do
know, don�t you, that one of Mary Elizabeth P. descendants gave the land for
a park and an Episcopal Church in Waynesboro. At Bath in the Summertime, the
residents created their own amusements, produced plays, and musicals and gave
balls. It was a very exclusive, happy enclave of the very weathy. Not even
the Charles Colcock Jones, ((Rev. Dr. or Jr.,Esq. had a home there-though
they were often guests. (The Jones reference, of course, to the Jones family
in �Children of Pride�.

You are correct, of course, that the George Poythress Will is in Jackson
County. I�m sure you know that Dr. Curtis Lane of Waynesboro had a mother
who was outstanding in civic and cultural work in Georgia. She did a lot of
genealogy and organized the Georgia Society of the Magna Charter Dames. She
once told me that she had completely stopped making was she thought were
accurate statements, because they were so often wrong. I will take a page
from her book.

As we get older, the guards our minds keep on our speech seem less attentive
and our thoughts come out without circumspection. I am afraid that, in
explaining the attitude of Dr. Isiah Carter�s family toward the Poythresses,
I have been unduely sever [sic]. Truth of the matter is that, had my family�s
ancestoral silver and other cherished things gone to outsiders (as I�m sure
they had to regard Mary Elizabeth Poythress�es descendants) I would have felt
bereft and not a little resentful. Dr. Carter was highly esteemed and his
family enjoyed a leisured life.

With reference to my last visit to Mt. Bethany Methodist Church and its
adjoining Cemetery, when I said it was virtually abandoned, I meant that
people are not burying there anymore. At least it did not seem so to me.
Actually, the church keeps the cemetery as well as the reduced membership
can. Since it was also for the use of the whole community and not just for
the church, I feel they do a comendable job of caretaking. Another example
of the guard slipping. I know you will understand when I ask you to delete
that remark. You want to spell Odom with two O�s.

Since writing that I would spend time searching in Bertie County, NC I have
done so - and did not find anything of interest other than the Wm. Poythress
- ______Lewis marriage.
You must know how overjoyed I am to learn that this family came from
Brunswick County, Va. I have been searching this line since 1950 and, now, I
have hope. Thank you, so much, for sharing all your hard work.

Sincerely,

Martha

Martha Martin Dixon (Mrs. B. W.)		07/03/1997 4:22:31
A New MemberAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Thanks to Lou Poole, Linda Starr and "my kind message " (no I'm not
going to tell you what I said to her ), I think she is a wonderful new
addition to our group. As soon as I get done posting this I will be adding
Lea to our group (that way she won't see me braggin' about the quick
snare). Our "neat people" quotient continues to soar!!

Best,
Al Tims
-------------------------------------------
Al,

Thank you for the kind message. I have been buried in original records at
some court house or in a cemetery somewhere.... I love original work. I
would be pleased to join your group and have passed on a suggestion to
Linda. If someone would care to send me a POYTHRESS line, however much
they have; I will be more than happy to plug it in and see what connections
that I already have. Then I can send it back to the group.

I am very interested in my Native American heritage and very proud of it.
Only last year, my cousins and I were even questioning the link at all, and
now we have more Native American heritage than anyone would imagine. I am
the editor of Southern Bass quarterly and have been working with the
Nansemond tribe on our family's heritage. I absolutely love the stories
that I found. Of course, not all of them are happy.

I don't know how much time I will be able to devote to the list, but will
be more than happy to help when I can. As I explained to Linda, I am
trying to get legal proof on many Native lines and try and help get 94
Natives re-interred. Two of those are my family, 6th great grandparents.
Your group might be interested to know that families with Native heritage
seem to always stick together and intermarry quite frequently. Unless you
follow all of the siblings, it would be very easy to miss these important
connections due to the different surnames. The BIA uses this frequent
intermarriage as proof of Native heritage.

I will try to help as I can. If someone could send me a POYTHRESS gedcom,
it would help me to help the list better.

Thanks,
Cousin Lea
lea@gnat.net
Southern Bass
http://www.gnat.net/~lea/

PS; The Cousin Lea is really what our Bass cousins call me. Others may not
be so kind.		07/03/1997 5:23:50
Internet ProblemsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following was just posted to all RootsWeb list owners for Karen one of
the selfless folks run the RootsWeb operations. It is a lay explanation as
to why things have been so very strange in recent days -- strange in terms
of delayed delivery, none delivery, bounced messages, etc. I will keep you
posted -- assuming you ever get this ...

Best,
Al Tims
-------------------------------------
A few bits of information, perhaps related, perhaps not.

First, well, before I start, let me say that Brian really ought to be
writing this, since he actually understands how the stuff is supposed
to work that I'm going to handwave about. Please forgive any
technical errors, incorrect acronyms, etc. 😉

First, the DNS function on the Internet seems to be and to have been a
bit staggery since sometime last weekend, with different sites
(including RootsWeb) winking in and out of existence, at least as far
as other hosts are concerned. Last Sunday, and this morning, Prodigy!
has gone missing. Last night, mindspring.com was "host unknown".
Yesterday morning, =any= site ending in .net was similarly unknown.
Last evening, for about an hour, I suspect to most of the 'net,
RootsWeb didn't exist: there's this nice trough in the graph of
our bandwidth usage that is a bit difficult to explain otherwise.
And we're in a similar trough right now.

In fact, as we speak, I just received this note from John Pimentel:

> Assuming this reaches you L-Soft is reporting the following:

> 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: rootsweb.com:
host
> not found)

Who's to blame? Who knows. 😉 The problem is that when host A wants
to contact host B, to deliver mail or look at a web page or whatever,
it touches base with a (this is super simplified: the actual procedure
is apparently much more Byzantine than this) third party. "Where's
RootsWeb? Where's Prodigy?" The third party is supposed to respond
with a string of numbers, the IP address. But the system is often
returning a shrug instead. Hopefully we'll exist again soon. And
Prodigy will be refound, etc. Meanwhile, just try again later...

Second, Juno. Starting about noon on Tuesday, we've had serious
problems with mail deliveries to Juno. What is supposed to happen
is we ring up another site, say "We've got a letter here for
your user", they're supposed to say, "Sure, go!" Letter gets handed
off in less than a second and we head on to the next letter.
Or (like AOL often times), they respond, "Sorry, busy, try again
later." But again, a very quick transaction.

Instead, Juno sits on the line, so to speak. "Hang on, I need to
get a pencil." Long pause. "Oh, darn, no paper, hang on!" Long
pause. "Oops, the lead broke, let me go sharpen that pencil..."
Etc. For an HOUR or more. To deliver a message of less than 2K?
Come on... (If Juno didn't respond at all, we'd time out well
before then and move on. But they send back just enough to string
us along.) Do like AOL and tell us to come back later, please?

Juno isn't the only site that does this, but it's the only =big=
site that does it, and therein lies the problem. We can only
have so many connections open to the Internet before we run out
of table space, etc, and essentially stall. For a site like
Juno, with subscribers to virtually every list we host, we end up
with literally 100s of open connections to Juno. They're monopolizing
our connections, but not accepting mail, and no one else is getting
mail.

This isn't the first time this has happened. Before, we've simply
shut down the mailing lists for a few hours and queued the messages
and waited for Juno to get well, and then started things up again.
Everyone, Juno and non-Juno, gets their messages that way, and the
delays aren't too bad.

We did that this time, too. But four hours later, Juno was still
sticking. So we ran a script that trimmed all the Juno subscribers
out of all our lists (saving their addresses in a safe place so they
can be added back) and turned the lists back on. That was Tuesday
night. Since then, a few Juno subscribers have resubscribed on their
own. Enough that we can monitor whether or not our exchanges with
Juno are happening in a reasonable amount of time. As soon as they
do, we'll add all the Juno addresses back to your lists.

This obviously can't be a permanent solution. If Juno is going to
do this every few weeks (that's their current track record), something
better needs to be found. We're in hopes that when we upgrade to
the new version of sendmail (an upgrade in progress), that that
alone will solve the problem. Another possibility is to shift
to qmail for delivering our mail. Rumor has it that some sites that
host mailing lists have totally locked out Juno: we hope it won't
come to that.

If your Juno subscribers are looking for relief, meanwhile. 😉 I
don't normally recommend this, because the more links there are in a
chain, the more vulnerable it is to breakage. But in this instance,
it might make sense for them to look into a permanent address at a
site like bigfoot.com, iname.com, usroots.com, that would forward to
Juno. What happens then (I think!) is we hand the message off to
bigfoot, iname, or usroots, and then the hour long handshake with Juno
is their problem. Since they're undoubtedly configured differently
than we are, for them it may not =be= a problem, and everyone wins.

Meanwhile, the Juno delivery I'm currently monitoring has been
sitting like a lump for 13 minutes. Doesn't look promising...

Karen

P.S. Oh, I said the problems might be connected. Juno, no duh,
must have a =lot= of mail to deliver. The DNS problems I mentioned
earlier would be making this very difficult for them, and could possibly
explains the degraded performance we're observing...		07/03/1997 5:30:43
ROBERT & BENJAMIN C. PORTHRESS/RANSOMDear Tim and other Poythresses,

Eureka! I found my original notes from Dr. R.G. Ransom in Murphreesboro,
Tenn. telling me where the name change or adoption of the above two young men
is recorded. He told me it was listed as being at the request of: RICHARD
PAYNE RANSOM, ROBERT PORTHRESS & BENJAMIN C. (CLEVERS?) PORTHRESS.

(That is the spelling from the NC records .... SO THERE, you Portes, Portis
skeptics.) This was the same family as Kesiah Portis I'm sure (Mrs. Richard
Payne Ransom) My guess was always that they were the orphaned children of a
brother of Kesiah's.

INDEX TO THE N.C. STATE RECORDS: pg 399: Reference to RANSOM, Robert - An Act
to Change Name from PORTHRESS; vol. 24, pg 939

Also under ROBERT PORTHRESS (the older boy) a Bill to Change Name - Vol. 20
pp 155,159,179,190,191,339,357,366,377. (There must have been a lot of
changes to the bill???)

Under BENJAMIN C.(CLEVERS) RANSOM - pg 398-Act to Change Name From PORTHRESS,
vol. 24, p 939 (and several pp from the Vol 20 list, same pages as ROBERT's.)

THE NAME CHANGE BILL ITSELF IS IN VOL 20.
The Bill was brought by RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM, ROBERT PORTHRESS AND BENJAMIN
C. PORTHRESS.

BUT the biggest find of all is this: THE PORTHRESSES WERE APPARENTLY BORN IN
FRANKLIN COUNTY, N.C.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Would it be possible for some of you NC Poythresses to look up the time pd.
in Franklin Co. Records? I am trying to find their parents and the parents of
Christina Kesiah Portis/PORTHRESS>Here is what I know:

CHRISTINA KESIAH PORTIS/Porthress was b. in NC in 1763. She d. 1841 near
Murphreesboro, Tn. She married RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM b1752 Isle of Wight Co,
Va. emigrated 1812 from Va to N.C. to Tenn.

ROBERT PORTHRESS/RANSOM was b. in 1786
BENJAMIN PORTHRESS/RANSOM was b. in 1788
Both were apparently b. in FRANKLIN CO.

Okay, so I'm not very efficient. But I DID finally find it. PLEASE help if
you can.

A Poythress after all,

Caroline Burnett Cook		07/03/1997 8:08:03
PRONOUNUNC////SPELLINGPat & Maurice CreweGreetings Poythress hunters,

A few thoughts on the spelling questions. I may be stating the obvious to
some of you experts, but I am trying to clarify my own thoughts - and justify
some of my own mistakes!!

Experience suggests that almost anything is possible. As highighted in
the delightful example of the census taker reported by George W. Durman;
of course "it is necesarie to have a ejucashun, which a lot of pursons still do
not have." but I'm not taking it personal!

Words pronounced with various rural dialects were often written
by a semi literate local or 'incomer' clerics. The vicars/curates etc. were
often from other regions brought up with other accents and then educated
in colleges where they may have been encouraged to "talk posh". In some
cases a barely literate local may have been accepted as the clerk to complete
the mundane task of filling in the parish register. The problem exacerbated of
course because many Ag Labs could not read enough to check the spelling.
Therein lie several reasons for differing spellings.
If you have tried reading old documents you would know that at different times
the letters 'c' 'r' and 't' looked very similar - as did 'h' and 'k', not to mention
'e' and 'o'. I could illustrate with examples but I have yet to work out how to
send pictures on our system.
Bearing the latter in mind it is easy to see that Portress could become
Pockress, especially in the eyes of later readers who then perpetuate the
variations, adamant that they've seen it in black and white.
Having seen it in black and white is no guarantee of accurate transcription.

Regards
Maurice

07/03/1997 8:08:31
ConnectionsStarrAnother message from Lea,

>From: "Lea L. Dowd"

>Linda,
>
>You and the group were questioning connections.... Here are a few for you.
>They might explain what you are seeing. One more point... do not believe
>all that you are quoting about Ft. Christianna. You might want to read
>Robert Hicks, the Honest Man. The sad part of the whole thing is that he
>could easily be a half-Native himself. I really do believe this to be very
>probable.
>
>Lea
>
>Descendants of Nathaniel Irvin
>
> 1 Nathaniel IRVIN
>... +ELIZABETH d: ca 1735 in Brunswick Co., VA
>.... 2 Elizabeth IRVIN d: Bef. 02 Oct 1740 in Brunswick Co., VA
>........ +Robert HICKS, Jr. b: 22 Jun 1691 in Charles City Co., VA m: 04
>Mar 1725/26 in Brunswick Co., VA d: 1737 in Brunswick Co., VA [Son of
>Capt. Robert Hicks and half brother-in-law to Richard Ransome] [1st cousin
>to my Robert Hicks]
>......... 3 Elizabeth HICKS
>............. +Robert RIVES b: ca 1722 in Prince Geo. Co., VA d: 1774 in
>Prince Geo. Co., VA [nephew of my Timothy Rives]
>......... 3 Nathaniel HICKS
>............. +MARY
>......... 3 Winifred HICKS
>......... 3 Martha HICKS
>......... 3 Mary HICKS
>......... 3 Sarah HICKS
>.... 2 [1] Mary IRVIN d: 1762 in Brunswick Co, VA
>........ +Burwell BROWN m: Bef. 1733 d: ca 1749
>......... 3 Betty BROWN
>........... +John COOKE I b: ca 1738 in Brunswick Co., VA m: 24 Sep 1759
>......... 3 Urvin BROWN d: ca 1776 in Brunswick Co., VA
>............. +Mary THWEATT b: ca 1734 m: Aft. 1758
>......... 3 George BROWN
>.... *2nd Husband of [1] Mary Irvin:
>........ +John WALL, Sr., Col. m: Jun 1752 in Brunswick Co., VA
>......... 3 Mary WALL
>.... 2 Amy IRVIN
>........ +Thomas WILSON
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/03/1997 9:17:17
Old Maiser Archive FilesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I now have the old Poythress mailing list archive from our MAISER days.
I've created a self-extracting zip (compressed) file for the entire
archive. Compressed, it is still 371K. I will gladly send it to anyone
who would care to have it.

Best,
Al Tims		07/03/1997 9:38:54
Bristol Parish, Prince George County VACharles NealJohn C. Baird,

Enjoyed seeing the info from __Baird & Beard Families__ by Fermon Baird
Catchings, publ. 1918. Am curious whether you, having known about that
mention of "Thomas Poythress, Editor & Legislator" whose daughter married
Col. B.M. Jones, have ever been able to find out WHAT that Thomas Poythress
edited? or when & where he was a Legislator?

Thanks,
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/3/97		07/03/1997 10:42:50
Re: PRONOUNUNC////SPELLINGMarion & Helene PockrusWell, as the old Hillbilly mother said when she wrote to her son in the
Civil War,"I'm writing this slow cuz I know you can't read fast!"

Enjoy your weekend and barbeques!
Happy Fourth!

Helene

07/03/1997 11:32:43
Lyn's QuestionsLyn....I'll leave your "Captain Kirk to Alfred E.Neuman" questions until
later; meanwhile lets talk about Flowerdew. I think several of us are
friendly with administrator Libbie Myrick who I personally think is a jewel.
I send Flowerdew a few bucks every year and frankly, somewhat in tune with
your comment, I think it kind of tickles them to have a Poythress
contributor, even if he isn't a heavy hitter. I also know Barbara Neal knows
Libbie and is a contributor....probably others on our wire also. In fact, it
was Libbie who put Barbara and me together and was thereby the principle in
helping Barbara "found" this circle.

Below is a letter I wrote to Libbie on June 4. My purpose will be obvious
from the letter but we really do want Flowerdew to put up a sub-page on our
page....and then if they prefer they can just leave it "up" and walk away.
(after creating it they don't actually have to DO anything and I'm not sure
they know that) I know it would certainly add luster to our own
presentation...therefore the sell job I was doing. I also think it would be
at the very least a minor contribution to Flowerdew....even if they don't do
anything put post maybe a graphic, a terse history, hours of operation and a
map.

Its a little early to follow-up and bug Libbie given that non-profit
foundations typically take forever to get anything done so I do not interpret
her lack of an answer in just 30 days to be a "no". However, and I'll leave
this to your discretion, if you wanted to brief your mother and let her
perhaps broach her own "new idea" to whomever she knows at Flowerdew it might
move the process along.

Aside from the fact that Foundations generally do little walking and no
running, there may be yet another obstacle. Hard as it is to believe, they
just may not have anybody technologically hip enough to do a page. If thats
the case, shoot, thats no hill for us to climb. Maybe that's what we will
ultimately do.....draft up a page and submit it to them for their approval.
Flowerdew has a spot on the Va. tourist page and to link their Poythress
page to their own site (with their permission) would seem to be kind of neat.

So....I guess I'm saying even though its a little early, Leroy doesn't seem
to be doing much with this ball so if you want to add some impetus in any
greater or lesser degree, by all means have at it.

Incidently, list member Lori Poythress only lives a few miles from the place
and visits from time to time with her family. Lori, by all means jump in
here and give us your
opinion, would you?

To your second question: I don't think FD is doing anything on "the family"
and I also think they don't have any plans to do so. My general impression is
that while they are happy to refer queries to us, the Poythress family is no
great shakes to them inasmuch as their focus is on the colonial "link", the
windmill is their show biz, and they are big on the archaeology of the place.
If indeed they perceive those 3 to be their "mission" I would tend to think
they guessed it about right. Who besides us gives a hoot about a bunch of
dead Poythresses?

I assume you are familiar with the book published in 1993: "Flowerdew
Hundred, The
Archaeology of a Virginia Plantation, 1619-1864" by James Deetz, a professor
of Anthropology at UV. It's focus is just what the title implies but there
are at least a half dozen places where Jim dials in Poythress family members.
I bought copies for my kids from FH and sent one to Jim for inscribing which
he did. It really is an outstanding book; Jim could have glazed over some
eyes with heavy archaeology which he avoided and also in every other respect
he just put together an outstanding story.

The book is a stunner as a gift to other Poythresses who are most often
unaware the place even exists, and with some kind of hokey frontispiece
inscription with at least a P. mention by Deetz its a home run for less than
25 bucks. I have suggested to Craig Scott that he poll the list for orders
and if he gets enough commitments to make it worth his while to hustle the
deal: round up "X" number of copies, script an inscription for Deetz to write
because Deetz understandably thinks we are interested in the archaeology and
doesn't make the P. connection for inscription purposes, sell books to us,
and whistle all the way to the bank. ( Craig.....you hear me? How you expect
us to make you rich if you are going to be so "polite" as to not solicit on
your own page?).

Maynard

(letterhead)

June 4, 1997

Ms. Elizabeth B. Myrick, Administrator
The Flowerdew Hundred Foundation
1617 Flowerdew Hundred Road
Hopewell, Virginia 23860

Dear Libbie:

I hope you will be interested to learn that a group of Poythress genealogy
folks have a
homepage up on the internet now. The address is:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

If you have or can find access to the net I think you would enjoy reviewing
our efforts. We think the page, its index and many sub-pages are
professional in every way. As opposed to many genealogy groups, we
differentiate ourselves by posting many original documents (well,
transcriptions anyway). We insist on first rate scholarship or we dont post
it. In addition, Flowerdew material gets included quite often as a part of
our research efforts incidental to the many family members with a Flowerdew
Hundred connection.

Instructions for joining a Poythress genealogy e-mail discussion group are
shown on the home- page. We have a number of non-Poythress members who
enroll only for the excellence of the colonial Virginia material that is
posted. Viewing the pages is of course free; joining the discussion group is
also free but optional...many people are still shy about the internet.

With respect to this homepage, two things come to my mind:

First, if the page meets your approval, we would certainly have no objection
to you and your staff sharing this address with any of your visitors who
express an interest in the Poythress family and have access to an on-line
service. I will say that we fully realize that this publicity is likely to
get us many more questions than answers. Thats perfectly okay, we
understand and accept that in this instance a public educational obligation
comes with the territory.

Second, we would be most pleased to offer the Flowerdew Foundation the
opportunity to
add a sub-page (or pages) specifically about Flowerdew to the website.
This could take almost any form you would like. Illustrations would be
fine, for instance a line drawing of the windmill or something on that order.
Your own copy would be very satisfactory with regard to what you wished to
emphasize in the text of a page. In fact, tastefully advertising Flowerdew
with hours and directions would certainly not be out of order. After all,
you are non-profit just as are we. We would not ask that you tout the
Poythress angle but some brief explanation of the linkage would serve to let
the first time page reader know the connection between the two.

Libbie, I hope this will be of interest to you and your board. I wouldnt
suggest it if I didnt think it would be consistent with the good taste and
professionalism associated with the Flowerdew foundation. If you are
interested, just get back to me and I would be happy to put you in touch with
the gentleman who handles all of the technical aspects of adding material to
the page. There would be no charge to Flowerdew; in fact we would be honored
by the association. I can be reached at the address above or if you have
access to e-mail I am VKRatliff@aol.com.

From time to time, I hear back from people who have visited Flowerdew in the
several years since I have been there. Im sure you will be pleased to hear
that all of these visitors are uniformly delighted with the outstanding
public service you and your dedicated people are doing.

Warmest personal regards,		07/03/1997 12:49:52
Juno is backAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Good news from RootsWeb!

Hopefully the last word on this for awhile. Juno was looking good last
night when we went to bed. They're still looking limber this morning,
so I've added all the Juno subscribers back to the RootsWeb mailing
lists.

Now, if all the messages I posted yesterday ever show up I'll be a happy
camper. I may repost later today if it appears they are lost in
cyberspace.

Best,
Al Tims

07/04/1997 1:46:32
Wall ChapterAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Quick announcement. Lou Poole's Wall family history chapter is now up on
our allied family page at the web site. I have given up on making MS Word
footnotes convert to HTML code for the time being. The footnotes are at
the end, but not numbered as they should be. Perhaps there is a simple
solution I just don't know about.

In any event Lou's chapter is HIGHLY recommended. It is nearly 50 pages,
so I'd suggest printing it out unless you're on an unlimited connection
time account. Lou is to be congratulated for doing such wonderful work.
I'm very impressed. You will find this chapter extremely helpful in
understanding our current exchanges.

Up next -- Lou's chapter on the Epes family.

By the way, if you haven't read Lou's chapter on the Poythress family --
you're missing one of the best overviews you'll find.

Best,

Al Tims		07/04/1997 4:13:35
Re: PRONOUNUNC////SPELLINGNice post, Maurice....and well said. We have been struggling with just that
problem until I think we are about ready to concede that one of those
"frontier" court clerks in America could have created just about anything out
of Poythress. In fact, I don't think we have noticed the pace slackening
even in 1997.

I'm not sure that this problem is unique to us but we also have to watch for
another little rascal that is not a misspelling but a mis-transcription.
Early Americans and the continent as well, had a symbol for anything ending
in double-S that looks to the unsuspecting very much like "ff" or "fs". I
first saw the symbol taking German in school and that was long ago when
American schools made the student read in the German script (Bud Poythress
will say yeah, about a million years ago).

I spot the change to the conventional "ss" as middle 1800's because I have an
interesting 1864 document illustrating both characters. My g-g-grandfather,
who would have been just a lad in the War for Southern Independence was
issued a pass to return home to his native county to "look for deserters".
The officer who wrote the pass used the "ff" and the younger John M.
Poythress signed the same document as received and used today's conventional
"ss".

In American genealogical libraries we encounter numerous examples of
Poythreff and Poythop. It certainly gives one pause to wonder how
dependable the information might really be if the transcriber didn't even
understand period penmanship. Fortunately, with the variance being on the
"end" of the name and virtually all lists alphabetized the problem is only a
very minor annoyance that one quickly becomes accustomed to.

Maynard		07/04/1997 6:15:28
Re: RootsWeb Kaput again!To: Maynard, Barbara P. Neal & Barbara P. Wolfe:

Great work Maynard but thought I'd wait a while to answer your latest
from Mrs. Dixon. I'll have to chew on "some of what she says" for it is
getting rather confusing now. But I wanted to mention a couple other
points I've been kicking around........

As you know, we've never actually learned "when nor where" either of the
two Meredith's died, or is buried! That is other than what Mrs. Dixon has
indicated as to death dates Have any of you looked into records of other
Georgia Counties besides Burke and Screven? But now that Mrs. Dixon
mentioning the various land lotteries, is it possible the Meredith's,
especially "Meredith, Sr." might have gone to another county as the result of
a draw and died there? Consider the following:

The 1821 Lottery:

1) A "James P. Poythress of Screven", Mills M Dist. drew Lot
#232, Sect. 7, - Henry County;
2) "Meredith Poythress, Jr. of Screven", Mills M Dist. drew Lot
#92, Sect. 10, - Houston County; and
3) "Merediith Poythress of Screen", Mills M Dist. drew Lot #32,
Sect.16, - Dooly County.
Note: "3)" above does not say "Jr" nor "Sr"?

The 1820 Lottery:

1) "Joseph Poythress of Warren", Hubberts M Dist. drew Lot #98,
Sect. 15, - Irwin County;
2) "George Poyrthress of Burke", Bells M Dist. drew Lot #194,
Sect. 18, - Early County:
3) "Maryann Poythress of Screven" Lovitts M Dist. drew Lot #431,
Sect. 10 - Irwin County; and
4) "Ceaton (Sp.?) Poytrhress of Screven" Roberts M Dist. drew Lot
#177, Sect. 10 - Early County.

Then the 1832 Gold Lottery:

1) "Hardimend (Sp.?) Poythress" drew Lot#752, 2nd Dist., 2nd
Sect.- Cherokee County;.
2) "Joseph Poythress" drew Lot #7, 2nd Dist., 3rd Sect. -
Cherokee County;
3) "Meredith Poythress, Sr." drew Lot #1078, 16th Dist., 2nd
Sect. - Cobb County;
4) "S.M., W.(?) Poythress" drew Lot #471, 16th Dist., 2nd Sect.
- Cobb County; (I don't understand who this S.M., W. might have been. Could
the 'W' be for widow?) -- and
5) "Meredith Poythrup, Jr." (Sp.?) drew Lot # 76, 3rd Dist., 3rd
Sect. - Cobb County.

These jokers were jumping all over the state so theres no telling just
where they may have been with death caught up with some of them. I'm not
sure, but how do we find our if they in fact did take title to those lot
drawings?

And too, I don't think the above leaves any doubts about whether there
was ONE or TWO Meredith Poythresses?

Yes Maynard, I have been browsing through Kathy' Best's earlier reports.
Keep in mind that when Kathy and I first began 'my' Poythress search, I
didn't think anything about all those other elusive Poythresses, I was just
looking to see if "I had any before me,.... eh ... us -- that is" types!

I still haven't heard a word from the Carl C. Poythress in Savannah that
I wrote. I even wrote him a followlup back on June 19th, suggesting the
importance of some of "Mrs. Dixon" info, hoping that just might stir his
interest. But as you say, may he'll still come through yet, ... for some
times it takes a while for these mellons to wrippen anyway.

So take care and we'll be back in touch soon.

Best wishes,

Bud (BPoytress@aol.com - June 5th, 1997, 12:17 PM)		07/05/1997 10:15:34
Re: RootsWeb Kaput again!Charles NealI never received which-ever message your message was replying to, Bud,
which had obviously been captioned "RootsWeb Kaput again!" Maybe
CompuServe is just slower in getting that original message to me?

Bud, I read your message detailing the GA land lotteries with much
interest. Maynard has recently put out messages with all the Laurens
County, GA info I had just acquired & had intended to post. Other than
that, I recall little info of other counties. You make a great point that
Meredith (and any of the others) could have died anywhere.
Maynard, thanks for sending Mrs. Dixon's original data and thanks MUCH for
transcribing Mrs. Dixon's latest tome. I still haven't had time to analyze
all her data. AND thanks for posting all that Laurens County into!! You
have been going like a gangbuster on churning out transcriptions & related
thoughts.
Ay,
BPN

07/05/1997 10:52:05
A Ransome Family QueryAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Picked up the following query from VA-Roots. Perhaps one or more of us
might be able to offer an assist. I've already alerted Caroline Cook about
this (recall that Caroline is working on the Ransom adoption of William and
Benjamin C. Poythress in Franklin Co. NC. ROBERT PORTHRESS/RANSOM was b.
in 1786; BENJAMIN PORTHRESS/RANSOM was b. in 1788; Both were apparently b.
in FRANKLIN CO.).

We're also seeing the Ransom(e) family in other early records. Maybe by
giving Ann in CA an assist we'll all learn something new!!

Best,
Al Tims

ps-- I contacted Ann and asked if she would mind if I reposted her query to
our list. She said -- post away! 🙂
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 07:24:03 -0700
> From: Ann Mitchell Horne
> Subject: RANSOME/DUDLEY--1680
>
> Does anyone have data on James Ransome est. 1680-17??. His wife was a
> Dudley. Her given name not known to me. Anyone with info on this
> couple, I'd love to hear from you.
> Ann in CA
> VA surnames: WILSON, GIBBS, HARRIS, HUDSON, WATSON, JONES, FORTSON,
> BILLUPS, GREENE, HEAD, WINN, LANIER, KEEBLE, TANNER, CHAMBERLAYNE,
> CHAMBERLAIN, TAVERNER, STAPLETON, OVERTON, STRATTON, SHIPPEY, BRANCH,
WASHINGTON, MULLINS, WALTON, ROWE, etc.

----------------------------------		07/05/1997 10:56:56
More allied family chaptersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I've added Lou Poole's Hardyman, Peebles, Epes and Wall chapters to our
applied family pages at the Poythress web site. Enjoy -- great reading!

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

Best,
Al Tims		07/05/1997 12:13:03
"Applied" Families, Pointer, & Call For PapersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

1.
Okay, before you start laughing at me for my previous post reporting:

I've added Lou Poole's Hardyman, Peebles, Epes and Wall chapters to our
applied family pages at the Poythress web site. Enjoy -- great reading!

I have no idea what an "applied" family might be :-).

2. When time permits, do take a look at Lea Dowd's "Soap Box" on her Bass
web page.
This is a wonderful statement and echoes the sentiments I know many of you
share about our own efforts and approach. I'm really thrilled that Lea has
joined our group!!
http://www.gnat.net/~lea/soap.htm

3. Call For Papers -- We've started to build a solid list of will
transcriptions, but we need more. I know you've got em -- so how about
sending them to me for posting. Do remember to provide me with the source
documentation. In fact, It would be wonderful to get any original document
transcriptions you may have. Please :-)!

4. Maps -- I will (before the day is out) get a permanent link to the
"neighborhood" maps on the web page. In fact, I'm working on adding
several more. Eventually, we'll (hopefully) move up to doing actual deed
mapping, but for now simply showing the general location (via creek and
neighbor coordinates) should help us develop a better feel for things. I'm
working on the Ft. Christanna area and some of the properties south of the
Butterwood locations we already have mapped. If you suggestions for
improving the approach -- do let me know. I'm already thinking about
putting hyperlinks on the maps to the actual deed descriptions. May not be
necessary -- but it would be fun to try.
temporary link (3 map images): http://www1.minn.net/~atims/map1.html

Enough for now. Again, Lea's "soap box" is well worth your attention.

Best,

Al Tims		07/05/1997 12:43:46
Re: Woodlief PageHey, Woody, if you and Ann find that you got great (or even good) Woodlief
material for each other and all that good stuff, the finder's fee is: a few
oohs and aahs for our egos. Last long lost cousins we put together just rode
off into the sunset (figuratively speaking of course) with nary a word.

Seriously, wishing you both good luck.

Maynard

07/06/1997 4:50:39
1840 VA Census infoCharles NealBelow is some VA Census info I have from my research in the National
Archives Census microfilms. Again as in 1810 - 1830 much of what I had
agreed with Lyn Poythress Baird's info in his message of 6/29/97 entitled
"Children of Lewis Poythress." Thank goodness that for 1840, I indeed
copied all the counties' Poythress entries, contrary to what I did for the
1830 Census 😉

Below, where I don't list an age category for a household, it had none
indicated as counted in that category. Some zeros I have included, for
clarification.

WM= White Males; WF= White Females; SM= Slave Males; SF= Slave Females.
Where an age bracket is given, such as "20-30" below, the Census sheet
actually labels the column that the person has attained an age of "20 &
under 30"
---1840 Charles City Co., VA Census
- p. 125 Thomas E. Poythres (1 WM 50-60 yrs; 1 WF 50-60 yrs; 14 SM under 10
yrs; 8 SM 10-24 yrs; 2 SM 24-36 yrs; 6 SM 36-55 yrs; 11 SF under 10
yrs; 3 SF 10-24 yrs; 8 SF 24-36 yrs; 2 SF 36-55 yrs; 1 SF 55-100 yrs;
total 57 counted; 19 persons in Agriculture; NONE are listed as Pensioners
for Revolutionary or Military Services & none listed as deaf or blind or as
being students)

---1840 Prince George Co., VA Census
- p. 258 Joshua Potress (1 WM 50-60 yrs; 1 WF 30-40 yrs; 1 WF 40-50 yrs;
1 SM under 10 yrs; 1 SM 24-36 yrs; 1 SM 36-55 yrs; 1 SF under 10 yrs; 1
SF 24-36 yrs; 1 SF 55-100 yrs; 9 total counted; 3 persons in Agriculture;
NONE are listed as Pensioners for Revolutionary or Military Services & none
listed as deaf or blind or as being students)

---1840 Mecklenburg Co., VA Census
- p. 396 Eastern District or 98th Regiment has Jas. Portress (3 WM 5-10
yrs; 1 WM 30-40 yrs; 2 WF under 5 yrs; 1 WF 30-40 yrs; 1 SM 36-55 yrs;
total counted is 8; 3 in Agriculture; NONE are listed as Pensioners for
Revolutionary or Military Services & none listed as deaf or blind or as
being students)
- p. 405 Eastern District or 98th Regiment has David Portress (1 WM 5-10
yrs; 1 WM 30-40 yrs; 1 WF under 5 yrs; 1 WF 5-10 yrs; 1 WF 30-40 yrs;
total counted is 5; 1 in Agriculture; NONE are listed as Pensioners for
Revolutionary or Military Services & none listed as deaf or blind or as
being students)

- p. 407 Eastern District or 98th Regiment has Lewis Portress (1 WM 15-20
yrs; 1 WM 20-30 yrs; 1 WM 70-80 yrs; 1 WF 60-70 yrs; 1 Free Colored
Person Male 10-24 yrs; 1 Free Colored Person Female 10-24 yrs; total
counted is 6; 4 in Agriculture; NONE are listed as Pensioners for
Revolutionary or Military Services & none listed as deaf or blind or as
being students)

Nuff for tonight. 1850 Census will have to wait for another time, but as
way of preview it includes not only 5 Mecklenburg Co households, but also 1
each in Prince George, Greensville, Dinwiddie-City of Petersburg, and
Henrico-City of Richmond.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 7:59:07
1830 VA Census infoCharles NealBelow is some VA Census info I have from my research in the National Archives Census microfilms and various Indexes they had to the 1830 Censuses on one of my very first trip to the Archives back in 1990 (while we were stationed in Washington DC), when I failed to note the Index volumes. Again as in 1810 & 1820 much of what I had agreed with Lyn Poythress Baird's info in his message of 6/29/97 entitled "Children of Lewis Poythress."
Below, where I don't list an age category for a household, it had none indicated as counted in that category. Some zeros I have included, for clarification.

-----1830 Census Index Entries (apparently I never photocopied or transcribed these first counties)

---Dinwiddie Co., Roll 196, p.411: Poythress, Lily

---Charles City Co., Roll 196, p.116: Poythress, Thomas E.

---Prince George Co., Roll 201
- p. 046 (or 946?) Poythrop, John
- p. 943 Poythrop, Joshua

-----1830 Mecklenburg Co, VA Census (from my copies of actual Census pages, from microfilm, Roll 197. WM= White Males; WF= White Females; SM= Slave Males; SF= Slave Females. Where an age bracket is given, such as "20-30" below, the Census sheet actually labels the column that the person has attained an age "Of twenty and under thirty"
- p. 015 (within the Division allotted to Lewis F. Hicks) has Lewis Potress (1 WM 5-10 yrs; 1 WM 10-15 yrs; 1 WM 60-70 yrs; 2 WF 15-20 yrs; 1 WF 40-50 yrs; 1 SM 10-24 yrs; 1 SF 10-24 yrs; 1 SF 24-36 yrs; 1 SF 36-55 yrs; 10 total counted)

- p. 029 (within the Division allotted to Lewis F. Hicks) has James Poytress (1 WM under 5 yrs; 1 WM 20-30 yrs; 1 WF 15-20 yrs; 1 WF 50-60 yrs; 2 SM under 10 yrs; 1 SM 24-36 yrs; 7 total counted)

Nuff for this message. BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 7:59:10
1810 VA Census infoCharles NealBelow is some VA Census info I have from my research in the National
Archives Census microfilms and from Schreiner-Yantis' 1810 Mecklenburg Co,
VA Supplement.
Much of what I had agreed with Lyn Poythress Baird's info in his message of
6/29/97 entitled "Children of Lewis Poythress."
Below, where I don't list an age category for a household, it had none
indicated as counted in that category. Some zeros I have included, for
clarification.

-----1810 Census NOTE: WM= Free White Males; WF= Free White Females.
Where an age bracket is given, such as "16-26" below, the Census sheet
actually labels the column that the person has attained an age of 16 &
under 26.
---1810 Mecklenburg Co. only Lewis Poythress (1 W tithable), on Lewis
Parham's List

---1810 Prince George Co., Census Roll #70
- p.534 has Poythress, William (1 WM 26-45; no other W in hh; 5 "all
other")
- p.542 has Poythress, Betsy (or Betey?) (3 WM under 10; 1 WM 10-16yrs; 2
WM 16-26 yrs; 1 WF 10-16 yrs; 1 WF 16-26 yrs; 1 WF 26-45 yrs; 0 "all
other")

---1810 Southampton Co., Census Roll #71
- p.844 has Poythress, Mary (2 WM under 10; no other WM; 2 WF 16-26 yrs; 1
WF 45 & over; 0 "all other")

---1810 Bedford Co, Census Roll #67
- p. 478 Pratross (or Prortross?), James (1 WM 10-16 yrs; 2 WM 16-26 yrs; 1
WM 45 & over; 1 WF 16-26 yrs; 1 WF 45 & over; 24 "all other"

---1810 Brunswick Co., Roll #66: NO Poythress families of any spelling
that I could find

Nuff for this message. BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 7:59:12
1820 VA Census infoCharles NealBelow is some VA Census info I have from my research in the National
Archives Census microfilms. As with the 1810 Census info I posted, much of
what I had agreed with Lyn Poythress Baird's info in his message of 6/29/97
entitled "Children of Lewis Poythress."
Again, where I don't list below an age category for a household, it had
none indicated as counted in that category. Some zeros I have included, for
clarification.

WM= White Males; WF= White Females; SM= Slave Males; SF= Slave Females
Where an age bracket is given, such as "16-26" below, the Census sheet
actually labels the column that the person has attained an age of 16 &
under 26.
-----1820 Census NOTE: This is the only Census that had columns for both
WM ages 16-18 AND WM ages 16-26 (in order to get # of men of military
eligibility, I read somewhere). ALL of the 16-18 WM were supposed to be
included in the 16-26 WM column too per the instructions to the
Census-taker.
---1820 Mecklenburg Co., Roll 130
- p.158A has Portress, Lewis (1 WM under 10; 2 WM 10-16 yrs; 0 WM 16-18
yrs; 2 WM 16-26 yrs; 1 WM 45 & over; 1 WF under 10; 1 WF 10-16 yrs; 1
WF 45 & over; 1 M slave 26-45 yrs as best I can tell which column this is
in; 0 Freepersons of Colour; total of 10 counted NOTE: I wish every county
in this Census had put a total of those counted on the far right like
Mecklenburg's Census taker did!!)

---1820 Prince George Co., Roll 135 (Census taker put folks in alphabetical
order by first letter of their last names, so cannot tell who their
neighbors were)
- p. 053 has Poythress, John Jr. (or Sr? hard to read) (0 WM of any age; 0
WF of any age; 1 involved in Agriculture which may be a Slave M, but I'll
be darned if I can tell the right age column, or conceivably could be 1
Free Person of Colour)

---1820 Charles City Co., Roll ?135?
- p. 9A has Poythress, Thomas E. (1 WM 16-26 yrs; 1 WM 26-45 yrs; 2 WF
under 10; 1 WF 26-45; 19 in Agriculture; + lots of slaves which I THINK
are in columns as follows: 24 SM under 14 yrs; 8 SM 14-26 yrs; 5 SM 26-45
yrs; 2 SM 45 & over; 15 SF under 14 yrs; 4 SF 14-26 yrs; 6 SF 26-45 yrs;
1 SF 45 & over; 0 Free Persons of Colour)

---1820 Dinwiddie Co, Roll 137 (again alpha order)
- p. 17 has Poythress, Patrick H. (2 WM under 10; 1 WM 26-45 yrs; 1 WM 45
& over; 1 WF under 10; 1 WF 16-26 yrs; 1 WF 26-45 yrs; 3 Foreigners not
naturalized; 0 in Agriculture; 1 in Manufactures; 2 which I THINK is in the
column for SF under 14yrs; 1 which I THINK is in the column for SF 14-26
yrs; 0 Freepersons of Colour)

---1820 City of Petersburg, Dinwiddie Co, Roll 139
- p.111 has Potress, Joshua (1 WM 16-26 yrs; 1 WF under 10; 2 WF 16-26 yrs;
1 SM who I THINK is in the under 14 column; 1 SF who I THINK is in the
14-26 column; 0 Freepersons of Colour)

Nuff for this message. BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 7:59:15
Census Index Info - several Southern statesCharles NealObviously the below info would require looking at the Census pages
themselves to be sure the index-makers (1) included all the households we
might recognize as possible Poythress households, and that they (2) spelled
the names as actually shown on the censuses. This is offered here with
those limitations, well known to the many of us who have used Census
indexes before.
This info was compiled prior to May 1992 by BPW from her searches of
VARIOUS Census Indexes (names & compilers not now known). She typed up and
mailed this info to me (BPN) in May of 1992. I just ran across this info
she sent me over 5 yrs ago & called to ask her if she minded if I included
it in my message to Listers. She said "Go ahead"
I [BPN] am now amazed at the appearance of a Thomas (could he be one of the
same Thomases who folks have recently been working on in VA & GA?) in South
Carolina in 1830!!

FL Census: no Poythress names or similar names found in indexes covering
1820 thru 1870

SC Census:
----- 1870: none
----- 1860: Poytress, Henry C. in Beaufort Co, p.66 of Beaufort twp.
----- 1860 Mortality Schedule: Portress, Lydia in Barnwell Co., p.27 of
Barnwell twp.
----- 1850: Portress, Henry C. in Beaufort Co, p. 003 of St. Helen twp.
-& Portress, Lydia in Beaufort Co, p. 019 of Prince W[illiam?] twp.
----- 1840: none
----- 1830: Poythress, Thomas in Charleston Co, p. 193 of St. Thom[as?]
----- 1820: none
----- 1810: Portious, John in Beaufort Co, p. 136 of St. Helen
-& Porton, Lydia in Barnwell Co, p. 073 of [no designation]
----- 1800: Porteous, Alexander R. in Beaufort Co, p.126 of Beaufort
----- 1790: none

AL Census:
----- 1880 [this yr not included in BPW's compilation, but BPN is aware of
these 2 from my own copies of Census pages themselves, from Natl Archives
microfilms, series T9:]
- Poytrass, Algenon in Sumter Co, p. 16, Gainesville Beat [BPN's ggfather,
Algernon Poythress]
- Poythress, James S. in Sumter Co, p. 17, Sumterville Precinct [This is
James Speed Poythress]
----- 1870 [this yr not included in BPW's compilation, but BPN is aware of
these 2, again from copies of pages themselves from Natl Archives
microfilms, series M593:]
- Poythress, Algernon in Sumter Co, p.84 of Township 22, R.3&4 West [BPN's
ggfather]
- Poythress, Catharine in household headed by her daughter Cathrine
Gilbert, in Sumter
County, p.83 of same twp [C.P. is BPN's gggmother]
Again resuming BPW's '92 compilation:
----- 1860: Poythress, James in Sumter Co, p.036 of Sumterville twp [BPN's
gggfather]
-& Portis, B. P. in Sumter Co., p. 491 of Alamuella, MS[?!?] twp.
-& Portis, Thomas J. in Dallas Co, p. 946 of Cahaba twp.
-& Portis, David H. in Wilcox Co, p.1180 of Western Dv. twp
-& Portis, S. W. in Wilcox Co, also p. 1180 of same twp.
-& Portis, Thomas in Monroe Co, p. 896 of Burnt Corn twp.
-& Portes, Edmond M. in Clarke Co, p. 746 of Grove Hill P. twp.
----- 1850: none
----- 1840: Portis, Joseph P. in Clarke Co, p. 240 [no designation]
-& Portis, Margaret in Clarke Co, p.255 [no designation]
-& Portis, Samuel G. in Monroe Co, p. 238 [no designation]
----- 1830: Porthrett, William in Wilcox Co, p. 184 Southern
-& Portis, Joseph F. in Clarke Co, p. 223 Southern
-& Portis, L. W. in Clarke Co, p.224 Southern
MS Census Index:
----- 1860: none
----- 1850: Portress, L. H. in Yaloubusha Co, p.417, N of j[?] Yaloubusha
----- 1840: Portis, James P. in Tippah Co, p.178
----- 1830: none
----- 1820: none
----- 1810: none

All for now. BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 7:59:23
Wynne/Woodlief, Maps, Deeds & MoreAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Woodlief Thompson to us in search of Ann Woodlief. Ann isn't a member of
our list, but I have been in contact with her and we have a link to her
Woodlief web page at our site. I forwarded to "Woody" information on how
to contact Ann and told him of our interest in the Woodlief and Wynne
families. Seems we have hit gold again! Below is a recent message.

I hope we'll be able to establish a dialogue with Woody, even if he doesn't
join our group.

Best,
Al Tims

- ------------------------------
Al, Following is the text of a document I wrote in 1994 concerning a
relationship between my branch of the Woodlief family and the Wynne family.
There is more here than you probably want to know, but you can ignore the
parts that seem irrelevant to you. What is evident is a close relationship
between the Woodlief and Wynne families in the early 18th century in
Virginia
---

Yesterday (2/17/94), my wife and I spent the day in the Virginia State
Archives in Richmond researching the latest revelations in the ongoing
search
for Susan Woodlief's father. Having discovered last month a discrepancy in
the transcription of a land transaction between that recorded by Col.
Robert
S. Thomas [my Uncle Rob] in the 1920's and that recorded in Elizabeth Ann
Kerman's recent Woodlief genealogy, I went first to the photocopy of the
original document to verify the facts.

The document in question is a deed made between Peter Wynne and Frances,
his
wife, and Joshua Woodlief, 11 March, 1727, in Prince George County. Col.
Thomas had recorded this transaction as being between Wynne and Joseph
Woodlief, perhaps because, in the margin of the document, Joshua is
abbreviated Jos. However, throughout the text the name is always spelled
out
in full, Joshua.

In the transaction recorded in this deed, which begins on page 1080 of the
Deed Book, Joshua Woodlief leases from Peter Wynne and his wife, 342 acres
on
both sides of the Nummisseen [sic] Road between Nicholas Overby's and
Buller
Herbert's lines for three years in return for an annual rent of "one ear of
Indian Corn, if the same should be demanded," payable on the tenth day of
November. Immediately following this deed and beginning at the bottom of
page 1081, is a second deed dated the next day, 12 March, 1727, between the
same parties for the same land which appears to transfer all rights to the
parcel to Joshua Woodlief (as best I can understand the convoluted legal
language of these deeds) "in consideration of the sum of one shilling,
current money of Virginia, to them in hand paid, by the said Joshua
Woodlief". If I have understood these deeds correctly, first there was a
lease agreement and then there was an actual transfer of title. The second
deed may, however, say that the transfer of ownership was to occur at the
end
of the three year lease; I'm not sure.

It is worth noting that, if Joshua is the son of John Woodlief (III),
then
his grandmother was a Mary Wynne, and thus, Joshua and Peter Wynne might
well
have been cousins (perhaps second or firsts-once-removed).

Since Col. Thomas had decided that "Joseph" might be Susan's father
because
of the proximity of this site to the region where Susan and Samuel lived
(about 30 miles as the crow flies, maybe two days with a wagon), and that
same reasoning could now apply to Joshua, I next tried to satisfy myself
about the location of this land. In the Archives is a map, dated about
1820,
of Amelia County showing the roads and streams and clearly showing the
Namozine [sic] Road. This road runs more or less east and west in the
southeastern part of Amelia County, apparently coming up out of Nottoway
County and rising slightly northward as it proceeds east, leaving Amelia
County at about the lattitude of Petersburg.

I next obtained a map of "Plats of the Land Patents in Amelia County,
Virginia" prepared by the Amelia County Historical Committee in 1987.
Tracing on this map along the route of the Namozine Road, I was unable to
find any land in the names of Peter Wynne, Nicholas Overby, or Buller
Herbert. I subsequently determined that Peter Wynne had indeed patented
the
tract in question 20 Feb 1723 by looking at the Land Office records
(Patents
11, p 336), so that if the tract were in present day Amelia County, it
should
have been on this map. Further, on a comtemporary county map of Dinwiddie
County, which abuts Amelia County to the east, there is a Namozine District
just west of Petersburg. I conclude, therefore, that the land that Joshua
Woodlief leased or aquired from Peter Wynne was located in present day
Dinwiddie County, then still part of Prince George County, as indeed were
Amelia and Nottoway Counties in 1727.

While I was thus engaged, my wife was exploring other records to find
traces
of Joshua. In the Prince George County records 1713 - 1728, there are a
half-a-dozen references to Joshua:
10 Oct 1715, he witnessed a transaction involving Henry Talley and his
wife
Mary of Bristol Parish, p. 74.
9 Jul 1717, witnessed a transaction for Adain Tapley of Westopher Parish,
p. 172.
10 Oct 1717, witnessed along with John Carter a land transfer from Eliz
Hamlin and John Hamlin to William Hamlin, p. 375.
1 Nov 1723, witnessed a deed for John Hamlin, p. 664.
8 Mar 1725, Inventory of John Carter, Dec'd, Joshua Woodlief,
Administrator,
p. 873.
13 Feb 1727 witnessed transaction between Henry Wyatt and John Carter of
Charles City County, p. 1076.
Joshua Woodlief does not appear in the next group of Prince George County
records, which begins in 1733.

I do not know why Joshua appears as a witness in this apparently diverse
group of actions over a dozen years, but the reason he does not appear
subsequently may have to do with the fact that he gained responsibility for
some 300 acres of land in the Spring of 1727, and may possibly even have
gained a wife about the same time. If Joshua is Susan's father, we believe
that Susan must have been born in the 1730-35 interval and that her
brother,
Robert, was probably born before her. Merrillan searched the likely
counties
for a marriage record for Joshua, but did not find one.

These records do establish that Joshua was considered qualified as a
witness
on a legal document by 1715 and had therefore presumably reach his majority
by then. Thus his birth year must be 1694 or earlier.

On 10 September, 1755, Samuel Thomas patented 476 acres on both sides of
Jordan's run, in the fork of the Nottaway (Patents #31, 1751-56, p 705).
Not
far to the east (maybe 5 miles), John Thomas had patented 400 acres on the
east bank of the Little Nottaway River in 1739. Near the east line of
present Nottoway County, on the northeast bank of Tomahitton Swamp, William
Thomas patented 400 acres in 1746 (perhaps 5 or so miles NE of John).
These
three appear to be the only Thomases in the area (original Amelia Co) at
that
time. Perhaps they were brothers, or conceivably, considering the dates,
Samuel was a son and John and William were father and uncle (or vice
versa).

A note on the plat map warns that often these parcels were not actually
patented until after the people had been living on and working the land for
a
while, sometimes quite a while. Thus the dates of the patents are not
always
definitive. William Thomas's patent appears to be located within the
present
confines of Fort Pickett, while the other patents are to the west and
appear
to be south of the present city of Blackstone, a relative newcomer to the
area, founded in the latter half of the 19th century. Amelia County was
formed out of Prince George and Brunswick Counties in 1835. All of these
patents were located in Amelia County at the time.

A side note: In the Amelia County Will Book 2, pp 25-26, Fanny S. Thomas,
orphan of William Thomas, deceased, to John Jones, guardian, 1803; and p
189,
11 September 1805, Fanny S. Thomas, age 21, petitions the court for release
from her guardian. Fanny was born in 1784, and her father apparently died
in
1803 (or before). On the personal property tax rolls for Amelia County, 10
April 1782, a William Thomas is listed with 1 free male above 21, 1 slave,
2
horses, and 4 cattle. If this William Thomas is the same who patented 400
acres of land in 1746, then he would be more likely to have been a
contemporary of Samuel (brother maybe) than of the previous generation.

Another interesting revelation from the patent plat map is that it
identifies the parcel of land that Samuel Thomas bought on 24 October 1770
from Thomas Walker "on the north side of the Horsepen Creek in the fork of
Nottoway." This was a triangular piece of land of 167 acres, patented by
Dennis Burchard in 1747, and lying on the southern boundary of Samuel
Thomas's 1755 patent. But Burchard must have sold it in the meantime,
because Samuel bought the land from Thomas Walker and his wife Mary.
However, the description of the boundaries begins "at John Thomas's corner
in Edward Thweatt's line." By interpreting the "plat map," in 1755, the
same
desription would have read "beginning at Samuel Thomas's corner in Edward
Thweatt's line." So, by 1770, a John Thomas owned some, or all, of Samuels
original 476 acres. It seems unlikely that this John would have been
Samuel
and Susan's son John, who later (1795) willed his land to his brothers and
sisters, because in 1770, son John would have probably been but 10 or 12
years old. Also, the description of son John's land when it was sold by
his
brother's and sisters to Stith Hardaway in 1795 does not seem to match
Samuel's patent. Son John's land was 115 acres on the Little Nottoway
River.

Also on the map is 586 acres patented by Peter Wynne in 1751, of which he
sold 386 acres on 27 January 1755 to Robert Woodlief, Susan's brother. I
don't know if this is the same Peter Wynne who leased (sold?, gave?) the
land
to Joshua Woodlief in 1727 or, perhaps, a son. Robert, on his death in
January 1757, left this property to his nephew, Woodlief Thomas. We
believe
that this is the farm near Blackstone, Virginia, that was passed down
through
several generations of Woodlief's descendents and only recently sold out of
the family. It should be relatively easy to check by examining the land
records. It is interesting to note that Samuel Thomas patented his land in
the same year that his brother-in-law, Robert Woodlief, bought land very
close by (perhaps 5 miles east).

The descripton of the property Robert bought from Peter Wynne "on both
sides
of Johny's Branch of Little Nottoway River" describes the southern boundary
of the parcel as "Southerly Maynard's in Spring Branch [emphasis added],
then
up the said Branch as it meanders to the old line." Presumably, this
description means that part of the southern boundary was Spring Branch. 1
June 1756, Robert Woodlief sold to William Hamlin 100 acres, "being part of
the land I now live on ... all of the lands I hold North side of my Spring
Branch ... and is bounded on the West by Bonney's line and on the North &
East on the said William Hamlin's line." It is hard to reconcile these two
descriptions except to conclude the Robert retained 286 acres, which
presumably was the land left to Woodlief Thomas "containing three hundred
acres more or less."

Peter Wynne's patent of 1751 was separated from John Thomas's patent of
1739
to the west by the 280 acre patent of Edward Cox, also 1739.

Samuel and Susan's two sons, Athanasious and Woodlief, had been born by 31
May, 1756, when Robert made out his will. Thus, Samuel and Susan were
certainly married by 1755 (or perhaps in 1755 if the two boys were twins).
The fact that Samuel patented his land in 1755 may be related.

Woodlief Thomas, Jr.
297 South Union Street
Spencerport, NY 14559
(716) 352-5660
e-mail: ThomTrav@aol.com

1751 was separated from John Thomas's patent of 1739 to the west by the 280
acre patent of Edward Cox, also 1739.

Samuel and Susan's two sons, Athanasious and Woodlief, had been born by 31
May, 1756, when Robert made out his will. Thus, Samuel and Susan were
certainly married by 1755 (or perhaps in 1755 if the two boys were twins).
The fact that Samuel patented his land in 1755 may be related.

More later -- my wife wants to get on the computer.

Woodlief Thomas, Jr.
e-mail: ThomTrav@aol.com		07/06/1997 9:03:02
Lea Dowd's mapping projectAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Lea sent me the following two (2) notes. She is way ahead of us, although
we do have a number of the deed data pool descriptions already extracted.
So, perhaps we might be able to participate at some level. Very exciting
stuff!!

Al,

Thank you so much for such a warm welcome. At the present time, a BASS
cousin and I have hired a person to actually do mapping through deeds and
patents for the southside area that you are looking at. I would be more
than happy to include your deeds and patents in this mapping venture. Your
providing them to me would also save me the time and energy to look them up
myself.

I will be trying to get all of them to her within the next week. So, if
you would like yours added to the neighborhood platting, you are welcome to
forward them to me. They then should be in a graphic file which may be
placed on the web, which is what I do plan to do with appropriate pieces.
You can as well.

Thank you again. I am honored.

Lea
------
l,

You are more than welcome to post the note. Secondly, the deep pool data
is what I am using. Carol Morrison is aware of my undertaking and who I am
using to do my work. She is familiar with April Pitman. The deed mapper
program automatically plots the land and you can then put in all
descriptions and save it as a pcx file.

I also talked with Carol Morrison a couple of weeks ago and she told me
that she was going to be putting out CDs with all of her work. I have
already requested to be on the list for purchase when she is done. Carol
is a wonderful researcher and a great source of information on the Hicks
family. She certainly has made my research a lot easier. We are very
lucky to have her.

Sounds like a great project that should hold answers for many....

Lea
lea@gnat.net		07/06/1997 9:07:58
More on Baird's and Raney'sLyn:
This will answer your post to me of 7-6-97 which I will also send to the
group and to Al.
I descend from John Baird, b. ca 1675 (?) shows up in Jamestown, VA in the
late 1600's. Married Margaret (Rookings). He lives at Jamestown until ca 1717
when he moves to Chippokes Creek Plantation in Prince George Co VA.. He has
four known sons: Rook, (my ancestor) b. ca 1702; Reuben, b. ca 1704; John, b.
ca 1706 (He was never recorded as John, Jr.) and Ephraim, b. ca 1715. Rook's
only known child is Benjamin ( my ancestor) b. ca 1720 in PG Co VA. m. in
1743 to Sarah Batte Jones, widow of John Jones. They live in Southwark
Parish, Surry Co VA on land known as "Averis Pond". He left Surry Co a
substantial land owner and Justice of the Peaceand moved to Lunenburg Co on
18 Aug 1760. His plantation was on Miles Creek. He remained in Mecklenburg Co
until early 1772 when he moed to Anson County NC. In 1779 Montgomery County
was cut from Anson and his land fell in Montgomery Co. The 1782 Tax list
shows no Benjamin Baird, but does show his son Alexander Baird (my ancestor)
who had m. Elizabeth Jennings. At the time of his demise, he owned 4540 acres
of land, a grist mill and a partnership in a saw mill. In addition to
Alexander, his children were: Sarah Baird who m. John Speed, Jr., and John
Batte Baird who m. Jenny (Reynolds).
John (ca 1706) had a son William who m. Mary Partridge. Among their children
were Charles William Baird b. 27 Dec 1775 m. Mary Archer Hansard Phillips in
Mecklenburg Co VA. Among their children was a Charles W. Baird, Jr.,, b. 11
Sep 1814, m. Margaret Mosely in 1838 and moved to TN. This John also had a
daughter Eliza Partridge Baird who m. Thomas Hall Raney in Mecklenburg Co VA
on 20 Oct 1836. They had 14 children. My line of Baird's were millers and
millrights who built dams, or mill races, and mill houses, and operated
water powered mills. This was handed down for several generations in VA, NC,
TN, KY and TX. None of the above John Baird's were ever connected with the
John Baird House in Petersburg, VA.
Another Benjamin Baird was the son of Ephraim (above) and was b. ca 1739 in
PG County, Martin Barandon's Parish. Ephraim also had a son named John, b. ca
1740 and could be the John Baird, Jr connected with the John Baird House. He
was not a Jr in the true since, but must have taken Jr to distinguish him
from other John Baird's in the area at that time. There were a total of four
John Baird's in the area of Petersburg between 1750 and 1825. He is listed as
John, Jr as Executor of Ephraim;s estate along with his brother, Benjamin.
I will post more on the John Baird's of Petersburg later.
Lyn, I do not know of nor do I suspect any relationship with the Baird's you
listed I will send you the materials on Brunswick Co that were compiled by
Richard L. Baird by mail. Address of Donald E. Baird, 15810 Gary Avenue,
Chester, VA 23831-7207.
John		07/06/1997 9:25:45
New SubscribersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'm delighted to tell you that we've added two new subscribers this
weekend-- in addition to Lea Dowd.

Paul MURAUSKAS and Bruce PORTER

Paul and I exchanged notes back in February concerning his HALL lines. In
addition, he has been in contact both with Lou Poole and Jean Spille.

Paul shares our interest in Ft. Christanna and in deed mapping. He just
sent me a long list of Poythress deed description from the deed data pool.
I still need to compare these with the ones we already have on the web
page.

Bruce PORTER found us on his own :-).

I hope both Paul an Bruce will be posting to our list in the near future.

Cheers,
Al Tims

07/06/1997 9:35:14
Laurens Co, GA RecordsCharles NealIf my conclusion is erroneous that the below source is where the
recently posted Laurens Co, GA information came from, then I am willing to
be corrected. I suspect however from the wording and the format, that the
recently-posted info on Laurens Co, GA, for the use of all us Poythress
Listers, probably came from 2 wonderful (copyrighted) volumes without
mentioning the fantastic fellow who has compiled those Laurens records, and
who laboriously typed up the entries over a period of some years in his
pre-employment hours and in his evenings and weekends, out of the goodness
of his heart, and published two THICK and GREAT volumes of Laurens County
records. As far as I know, he is the first person to ever put in
chronological order ALL the available records from a county, no matter
whether they were in Deed Books or Will Books or Marriage Books or
whatever, as he did in his first volume. A huge vote of appreciation is
due to him:
Allen Thomas, who also happens to be the Clerk of the Superior
Court of Laurens County, GA. He is the PRESENT Clerk of the Court, and
CONTINUES to be doing wonderful work saving the county's records &
compiling such records into indexes to make available not only to us but to
generations to come, the old otherwise - unavailable records.
His first volume was __Laurens County, Georgia Legal Records
1807-1832__ copyrighted by Allen Thomas in 1991, published by W. H. Wolfe
Associates, partially funded by a grant from the R. J. Taylor Jr.
Foundation. It originally cost $45 +$4 shipping and right now its first
printing is out of print, but my understanding is that it will be
reprinted. It is 906 pages absolutely packed (using a tiny
lineprinter-sized font) with info.
His second volume is __Laurens County, Georgia Legal Records
Superior Court 1833-1857__ copyrighted 1993 by Allen Thomas, same publisher
& partial funding by same as above. This one is currently available for
$45 + $4 shipping, direct from the compiler Allen Thomas, at P.O.Box 1719,
Dublin, GA 31040. It is 850 pages, again absolutely packed (using same
size small font) with info.
His intent is to do such work for many more old unwieldy volumes of
court records for Laurens County.
Allen Thomas notes that photocopies from the original Laurens
volumes of court records, for any of the compiled (abstracted) entries
listed in either volume, are available from the Laurens County Regional
Library for $.25 per page (801 Bellevue Avenue, Dublin, GA 31021) since
they now have either microfilm or photocopies of EVERY volume he has
abstracted and included in his books.
Mr. Thomas himself loves to hear from folks who have seen his
books' entries and hear that his work of a number of years has made some
connection for them. It helps him "keep on keeping on" with the
compilation work, to know that his work so far has made a difference to
folks. My husband Charles has, as a result, recently gotten copies of
about 60 previously-crumbling (and now laminated for preservation)
documents regarding his 5-gr-grandfather who was in Laurens in 1805.
I haven't studied copyright restrictions in depth, but I know that
usually when we make photocopies at a library or archives we are just using
info from someone's published compilations internally for our own
individual research. And I know that if we later publish a book or article
in which we want to quote from a person's book, we need to be sure we give
the appropriate source of the quote AND ask for permission to quote in our
own publication if it is more than a very few words.
With Web Pages these days prominently making available information,
which is not always being made available from the original records
themselves, people have to be more careful about violating copyrights by
"publishing" on the Web for the use of virtually anyone who hits their
website, info that was either compiled or written by others & copyrighted.
I don't know how the publishing of copyrighted info to just the couple
dozen of us on one List would currently be viewed, as compared to such
postings on Web Pages which virtually anyone worldwide can hit, but we
should realize that any one on our little List might copy one of our
postings to THIS List and put it out on other more widely circulated Lists,
too. (And if such wonderful compilers offer the fruits of their labors of
careful compilations to their local county's websites, then that probably
introduces yet other thought processes entirely, possibly having the effect
of nullifying the copyright of such info placed there? I have no way of
knowing if Mr. Thomas has offered any of his abstracts in such a way to any
website.)
** But at any rate LOGIC tells me that the wonderful people (like
Allen Thomas) who are spending years laboriously deciphering the old
handwriting in unwieldy ancient volumes, merit our undying gratitude for
what they have done so far, and any encouragement we can give them to
continue such work. Violating their carefully acquired copyright is not
likely to fit in with such encouragement, so we need to be careful of our
ways of sharing information.***
😉 Nuff for now, folks. BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 10:51:12
Lea Dowd's mapping projectCharles NealGreat news re Lea Dowd's neighborhood mapping project!

Carol, would you please add me to your list of purchasers awaiting the CDs
with all your deed-mapping work? Thanks!

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97		07/06/1997 11:12:52
NC Census excerptsCharles NealThe below info is some I photocopied several years ago in Washington DC
when Craig Scott loaned me his then-file of Poythress material:
handwritten research notes which had 2 NC Poythress households listed as
below. I suspect some of the above-listed Poythress folks are
grandparents of our current Poythress List subscribers. [Notations in
square brackets are mine.]
Craig assured me today that it is okay with him to post this info here. If
you wish to reach Craig directly he is at:
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net
Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is
http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit

"NC 1880 Soundex"
--[Note 1: After the head of household's name, you will see listed numbers
that correspond to the Vol., E.D., Sheet, Line #s from top of Soundex card]
--[Note 2: On the 2nd line of these notations you will see abbreviations
for the Color, Sex, Age, & Birthplace of the head of household. These are
from the next line below his/her name on the Soundex card]
--[Note 3: On the 3rd line of these notations, the first place listed is
the County & the second place listed is the precise area within the county
-- township, town, or whatever]
--[Note 4: Then the card has a place for "Other Members of Family" with
each line having a place for the person's Name, Relationship, Age,
Birthplace. Acceptable abbreviations for the Card-maker to use were "W"
for wife, "S" for son, "D" for daughter. Perhaps "N" was the abbreviation
for "Not related" but that is speculation on my part. In the below list, I
have added 2 extra dots ".." after the person's first name or after the
person's middle initial where one is included, in order to separate names
from the Relationship column as listed in the notes]

"NC 1880 Soundex"
[First household listed on the sheet is:]
Poythress, George W. 5-21-34-14
W M 43 Virginia
Chetham, Baldwin Township
[Poythress,] Pamela Susan.. W 31 VA
[ " ] William.. S 18 NC
[ " ] Robert Lee.. S 16 NC
[ " ] Ella May.. D 14 NC
[ " ] Simeon.. S 12 NC
[ " ] John.. S 10 NC
[ " ] Virginia.. D 8 NC
[ " ] Thomas..S 6 NC
[ " ] Herbert H...S 4 NC
[ " ] Charles..S 2 NC
[ " ] Roberta..D 7/12 NC
Redmond, Thomas..N 19 NC

[Then the second household listed on the same sheet is:]
Poythress, Jno L. 8-96-23-1
W M 50 Virginia
Franklin, Louisburg
[Poythress] T.Ann..W 42 NC
[ " ] Fanny..D 16 VA
[ " ] John W...S 13 NC
[ " ] Joseph S...S 11 NC
[ " ] Otelia M...D 9 NC
[ " ] Alice O...D 5 NC
[ " ] Mary G...D 2 NC
Dickerson, Virginia..D 21 VA

All for now. BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/6/97.		07/06/1997 11:12:58
Woodlief PageA message for Ann Woodlief:

I am a Woodlief descendant and would be interested in corresponding with you
by e-mail or otherwise to see if we have any information that may complement
each other's files. I am descended from Joshua Woodlief, apparently a son of
John Woodlief (III) and Mary Wynne, through his daughter, Susan "Suky"
Woodlief, who married Samuel Thomas c. 1850, probably in Amelia Co., VA.

Woodlief "Woody" Thomas		07/06/1997 12:35:37
Additional Wynne & Woodlief informationAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below are two additional messages I received today from Woodlief (Woody)
Thompson. Please note his mention of a "second" Mary Sloman. I suspect
this may be an error -- just not sure yet. I'm going to try to get Woody
to consider signing on to the list (at least for a bit) so I don't have to
keep acting as a middleman in the exchanges. For now, please post any
questions or additions directly back to Woody (his email is shown) and to
the list.

I think Woody might be interested in our quest to better understand the Ft.
Christanna issues and the land ownership patterns. My bet is that Peter
Wynne was also connected with Ft. Christanna. If you look at our map (now
linked to the web page under land records) you'll see that the area around
Butterwood was positively infested with Poythress, Wynne and Woodlief
families.

Please do jump in...

-------------------
Woody Thompson ThomTrav@aol.com wrote:

I perhaps owe you some apology for the lengthy document I sent yesterday
without any preliminary explanation and without any pruning or editing. My
excuse is that I was short of time and thought it useful to send the whole
thing and follow up with some background.

For nearly seventy years, off and on, various members of my family have
been
searching for the parents of our ancestor Susan "Suky" Woodlief. The final
clue to the puzzle came recently through the efforts of Sterling Anderson
of
Richmond, VA, (a fifth-or-so cousin, once or twice removed). He found a
document in the records of the Amelia County Orphan Bonds that a Peter
Wynne
had been appointed guardian of Robert Woodlief (whom we already knew to be
the brother of Susan) son of Joshua Woodlief. This record finally
confirmed
for us what we had long suspected ever since my uncle Col. Robert Thomas,
USA
Corps of Engineers, had found the land transactions, deliniated in my
previous e-mail, between Peter Wynne and Joshua Woodlief (although Col.
Thomas had recorded the name as Joseph, causing, over the years since, a
good
deal of blind alley searching). Col Thomas, by the way, appears to have
been
one of the first, if not the first, to have done a careful search of the
extant records relating to the Woodlief family.

The records are unclear as to Joshua's parentage, but Elizabeth Ann Kerman
believes that he must be a son of John Woodlief (III) and Mary Wynne,
because, as she puts it, we already know the children of John's brothers.
The dates, as I have worked them out, are plausible, although Joshua would
have been a relatively late child in the John Woodlief/Mary Wynne family.

The plot thickens further because a Peter Wynne sold land in Amelia County
to
Robert Woodlief in 1755. Robert Woodlief died in late 1756 (or possibly
Jan.
1757) and left this land to his nephew, Woodlief Thomas. The executor of
the
estate was Samuel Thomas, my g-g-g-grandfather. We're not sure if these
two
Peter Wynnes are the same person or not, but some evidence indicates that
the later Peter Wynne (of the 1755 Robert Woodlief transaction) was a son
of
the earlier one (of the 1727 Joshua Woodlief transaction).

It would appear that the first Peter Wynne was the son of Maj. Joshua Wynne
(1662-1714) and Mary Jones. Joshua Wynne was the brother of Mary Wynne,
spouse of John Woodlief(III). Joshua and Mary were children of Col. Robert
Wynne and Mary Frances ______ Poythress.

Following is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to my Cousin Phil Thomas of
Cartersville, VA, 4/16/96:
"I have recieved some more information about the Wynne family with a
reasonable confirmation that the Peter Wynne who was Robert Woodlief's
guardian and who sold land to Robert, was the son of the Peter Wynne who
sold/gave land to Joshua Woodlief.

"All of the Wynne genealogies I had come across until the last few weeks
showed that Peter Wynne, son of Maj. Joshua Wynne and first cousin of
Joshua
Woodlief, had married Frances Anderson Herbert, widow of John Herbert.
Frances Anderson Herbert Wynne died in 1726, leaving some Herbert
children,
but no Wynne children. John Herbert had died in about 1716, so Frances and
Peter must have married after that date. Peter Wynne was born about 1685
and
died about 1735 or so.

"In February, I received from my e-mail correspondent, Sarah Ekern, a
descendancy chart that showed a second wife for Peter Wynne and four
children, one of them named Peter, born 1714. She and I have been
exchanging
notes about this second wife, delayed by the fact that she took a trip to
Kenya during this interval. I have just received the following information
from her: "What I have came from research done by a Mildred S. Winn
(probably deceased). There is a two page list entitled 'Wynne Lineage'
which
she did and it has been passed around to other researchers. It states that
Peter Wynne married 1) possibly _____ Hill as Col. Edward Hill left Peter's
daughter, Mary, a slave in his will. Married 2) Frances Anderson Herbert,
a
widow with 4 Herbert children. Peter had 4 known children, Mary, Peter,
John
and Harry."

"If we look at the dates, we find that Peter(II) would have been 32 when he
was appointed guardian for Robert Woodlief in 1746, 37 when he patented his
586 acres in Amelia County in 1751, and 40-41 when he sold 386 of these
acres
to Robert Woodlief in 1755.

"Peter(I)'s first child, Mary, was born in 1710. Peter probably married
about 1709 when he was about 24. Peter(II) was born in 1714, John in 1716,
and Harry in 1718. There is a hint in these birth dates that there was
another child born in 1712 that did not survive. Since the last child,
Harry, was born in 1718, Peter(I) did not marry Frances Herbert until after
that date."

Another bit from this descendancy chart of Wynnes is that John Wynne
(1688-1738), son of Joshua Wynne and Mary Jones, married a Mary Sloman
(b.1700).

Perhaps thats enough for now. If I'm overloading you, don't hesitate to
say
so.

Woody Thomas

Next message:

On the Wynne descendancy chart sent to me by Sarah Ekern, I find a Sloman
Wynne (1700-1760), son of Joshua Wynne and Mary Jones and brother of Peter.
He had children Matthew, Sloman, Lucretia, Anne, Robert, William,
Elizabeth,
and Stith.

If you like, I can send Sarah your e-mail address and suggest that she
communicate with you -- or perhaps you already are in touch.

Woody
------------------------------------------------		07/07/1997 1:02:56
Re: 1830 VA Census infoAlbert R. TimsBarbara and Others,

Can you explain the reference to Lewis F. Hicks in this record. I believe
I understand, but would prefer to get a confirmation:

- p. 015 (within the Division allotted to Lewis F. Hicks) has Lewis Potress
(1 WM 5-10 yrs; 1 WM 10-15 yrs; 1 WM 60-70 yrs; 2 WF 15-20 yrs; 1 WF
40-50 yrs; 1 SM 10-24 yrs; 1 SF 10-24 yrs; 1 SF 24-36 yrs; 1 SF 36-55 yrs;
10 total counted)

Thanks,
Al Tims		07/07/1997 1:49:24
Warren Poythress - followupMaynard and Patti,

Received a phone call from the Carl C. Poythress, Jr. in Savannah this
morning in response to the '2' letters I'd written him earlier.

He appreciated the information I'd sent him on his family for he only knew
his family back through his grandfather -- Robert L. Poythress. He did not
know his g-grandfather was William E. Poythress "until I told him", which he
said he was glad to learn! He has no real interest in genealogy but he did
find what I'd sent him interesting reading, he said! His daughter is his
computer wizard and he will try to get her to check our our web-site.

Carl C. Jr. was the only child born, late in life, to Carl C. (b. 1892 d.
1974) & Beatrice E. (b. 1896 d. 1986) Poythress, Sr. of Newington, Screven
County, GA. So Carl (Sr) would have been 42 or 43 years old when young Carl
was born.

Carl C., Jr told me he is 62 years old now. That he attended school and
graduated from HS at Sylvania, GA and later graduated from "The Citadel" at
Charleston, SC, and was Commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant in the USA National
Guard. I think he remained active in the Guard, after a few years of active
duty with the USA, and recently retired from that service. (P.S. He was
called up for active duty during the recent Gulf Conflict).

He remembers his father mentioning an "Uncle Warren" but other than that,
knows very little about his great-uncle.

I'm not surprised at Carl's seemingly lack of interest in the genealogy of
his family because a couple of my first cousins told me straight off -- "I'm
not interested in those damn old people!" Surprising, but true.

Sorry, nothing further to report.

Take care,

Bud (BPoythress @aol.com)		07/07/1997 5:11:36
Re Those Old POCKRUS'sMarion & Helene PockrusBud said:
>
> Carl C., Jr told me he is 62 years old now. That he attended school and
> graduated from HS at Sylvania, GA and later graduated from "The Citadel"
at
> Charleston, SC, and was Commissioned a 2nd Lieutenant in the USA National
> Guard. I think he remained active in the Guard, after a few years of
active
> duty with the USA, and recently retired from that service. (P.S. He was
> called up for active duty during the recent Gulf Conflict).
>
> He remembers his father mentioning an "Uncle Warren" but other than that,
> knows very little about his great-uncle.
>
> I'm not surprised at Carl's seemingly lack of interest in the genealogy
of
> his family because a couple of my first cousins told me straight off --
"I'm
> not interested in those damn old people!" Surprising, but true.
>
> Sorry, nothing further to report.
We recently went to a Family Reunion and there was blood spilt. A sister
and brother had words. He felt the history of the family should be kept
for all future generations. So has researched the family genealogy, both
good and bad. She felt no mention of anything that was not perfect should
be mentioned, like a child with unknown parents,& grandpa threatening to
shoot someone for not keeping a promise on a deed due him. ( He spent time
in jail). He had good reason to be upset. Anyhow now the siblings, both
in their 60s aren't speaking. She wants to be the last of the matriarchs
and he wants to tell the history in total. Too bad. However it's the old
people who give us the best information. I've had info from 93 year olds
who didn 't know their own children but could tell you about coming across
the plains and who their neighbors were in 1880. It's sad that our younger
generation has so little respect for their past and their old timers. By
the way, it was he who won out as all the youngsters wanted to update the
records so they were included and wanted copies. So she left a day early
and took all 5 watermelons with her! I was there, it was myh husband TEx.
Helene		07/07/1997 5:52:13
Indian Company (update)James L. PooleI took my question about the Indian Company to the VA list, and got several
replies. At least two people, however, pointed me to "The Spotswood
Papers" which supposedly are kept at the Library of Virginia.

I'll be checking into these from far-off Dallas as best I can in the coming
weeks. If anyone else has a personal interest in the question, then please
join me in the search (and let me know if you have success in locating
these papers). I'm personally convinced that if I could find the original
charter for the Indian Company, and the papers dealing with Fort
Christanna, we would understand a lot more about the families connected to
the Poythress family. And who knows, "The Spotswood Papers," if they truly
exist, just might give us more direct insight into the Poythresses,
themselves.

For what it's worth...

Lou

07/07/1997 7:29:07
F. A. (Francis A.?)Poythress Bible

Family record pages are MSS #20, Special Collections, University of Georgia
Library, Athens, GA 30602

Births(quoted):

F. A. Poythress Born April 4th 1836 (written in pencil "Francis A. Poythress
age
64 April 3rd 1836"; the entry is cross-hatched)

Mary's and Maria's Children
Logan was born June 28rd [sic] 1856
Nathaniel was born Oct 6, 1858
Waverly? was born Oct 28, 1859
Madaline was born Feb 26, 1860
Luciane was born May 4th 1862
Alice was born April 27 1864

Mary Lorane Poythress, Sept. 3rd 1856; 1856

[All of above typed exactly as it appears in bible. A last line is added in
Martha Dixon's handwriting "This is a S. C. Bible". As with many Bible
entries, they were made seemingly as reminder notations to the writer with
little concern for being read by future generations. For example, is F. A.
or Francis A. Poythress the father of the chlldren of "Mary's and
Maria's"....it would seem so. And the first sentence re
F. A. Poythress can be read with any of several interpretations]

MP		07/07/1997 12:29:01
Ft. Christanna Source BooksAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Several of us are keen to develop a deeper understanding of Ft. Christanna
because of the clear evidence that the Poythress, Hicks, Wall, Wynne and
other allied families were intimately involved in the enterprise. Below is
a recent worldwide search (WorldCat) of all libraries for books related to
Ft. Christanna. Please note that this isn't exhaustive, since other
histories of the period will likely contain relevant information.

I've also included reference (bottom of list) to a recent book on the
official letters of Lt. Gov. Spotswood. This book might be available for
purchase.

Unfortunately, most of these books are not in libraries outside of
Virginia.

Best,
Al Tims
---------------------------------------------

ACCESSION: 16393196
AUTHOR: Buford, Edward Price, 1865-1931.
TITLE: Fort Christanna;
PLACE: Lawrenceville, Va.,
PUBLISHER: Brunswick times-gazette print
YEAR: 1924
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 25 p. on 13 l, 22 x 28 cm.
NOTES: Collation of original: 1 p. l., 3-25 p., 23 cm.
Photocopy.
SUBJECT: Fort Christanna (Brunswick County, Va.)

ACCESSION: 9739438
AUTHOR: Hazzard, David K.
TITLE: Fort Christanna archaelogical reconnaissance survey /
PLACE: [Williamsburg (Wren Kitchen, College of William and Mary,
Williamsburg, VA 23186)] :
PUBLISHER: Virginia Research Center for Archaelogy,
YEAR: 1979
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: [51] leaves : ill., maps ; 29 cm.
NOTES: "Footnote Bibliography": leaves [46-51].
SUBJECT: Indians of North America -- Virginia.
Virginia -- History -- Colonial period, ca. 1600-1775.
Fort Christanna (Va.)
OTHER: McCartney, Martha W.
Virginia Research Center for Archaeology.

ACCESSION: 8630731
AUTHOR: Beaudry, Mary Carolyn, 1950-
TITLE: Excavations at Fort Christanna, Brunswick County, Virginia :
1979 season /
PLACE: Williamsburg :
PUBLISHER: College of William and Mary in Virginia,
YEAR: 1979
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 75 p. : ill. ; 28 cm.
NOTES: Bibliography: p. 67-68.
SUBJECT: Excavation -- Virginia -- Brunswick County.
Fort Christanna (Va.)
Virginia -- Antiquities.
OTHER: Brunswick County Historical Society.
College of William and Mary. Dept. of Anthropology.

ACCESSION: 6343530
AUTHOR: McCartney, Martha W.
TITLE: History of Fort Christianna [i.e. Christanna] /
PLACE: [Williamsburg] :
PUBLISHER: Virginia Research Center for Archaeology,
YEAR: 1979
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: [42] leaves : maps ; 30 cm.
NOTES: Cover title: History of Fort Christianna, Brunswick County,
Virginia.
Includes bibliographical references.
SUBJECT: Indians of North America -- Virginia.
Fort Christanna (Va.)
Virginia -- History -- Colonial period, ca. 1600-1775.
OTHER: Virginia Research Center for Archaeology.

ACCESSION: 6260036
AUTHOR: Buford, Edward Price, 1865-1931.
TITLE: Fort Christanna;
address delivered on the occasion of the erection of a monument
by the Society of Colonial Dames of America, in the State of
Virginia, to mark its site, May 22, 1924.
PLACE: [Lawrenceville, Va.,
PUBLISHER: Brunswick Times-Gazette Print.,
YEAR: 1924
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 25 p. 26 cm.
SUBJECT: Indians of North America -- Virginia.
Fort Christanna (Va.)
Virginia -- History -- Colonial period, ca. 1600-1775.
OTHER: National Society of the Colonial Dames of America in the
Commonwealth of Virginia
----------------------------------------------------

ACCESSION: 37214725
AUTHOR: Virginia. Lieutenant-Governor (1710-1722 : Spotswood)
TITLE: The official letters of Alexander Spotswood, lietenant-governor
of the colony of Virginia, 1710-1722, now first printed from the

manuscript in the collections of the Virginia historical
society,
with an introduction and notes by R. A. Brock ...
PLACE: Richmond, Va.,
PUBLISHER: The Society,
YEAR: 1882 1885
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 2 v. in 1. front. (port.) coat of arms 25 cm.
SERIES: Collections of the Virginia historical society. new ser. col. I-
II
SUBJECT: Virginia -- History -- Colonial period.
OTHER: Spotswoods, Alexander, 1676-1740.
Brock, R. A. (Robert Alonzo) 1839-1914.		07/08/1997 1:02:16
Spotswood & Company - Additional ResourcesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

An additional source document related to Spotswood.

Maynard - Do you still have a contact at William & Mary who might be able
to get hold of the second item below (MA thesis)? If not, I can try to
request it via library loan.

Best,
Al Tims
---------------------------------------------------------
ACCESSION: 24165704
AUTHOR: Mazur, Frances Susan, 1961-
TITLE: For peace and prosperity : the defense, trade, and expansion
polices of Governor Alexander Spotswood /
YEAR: 1990
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: vi, 116 leaves ; 29 cm.
NOTES: Typescript (photocopy)
Vita.
Thesis (M. A.)--College of William and Mary.
Bibliography: leaves 111-115.		07/08/1997 3:15:28
Another Spotswood - Christanna SourceAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Sorry, this should have been sent with my earlier message on Spotswood
resources.
Best, Al Tims
---------------------------------------------------------------------
ACCESSION: 19697718
AUTHOR: Kraus, Casper C.
TITLE: Governor Spotswood's interest in frontier problems /
YEAR: 1988 1931
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: vi, 84 leaves ; 29 cm.
NOTES: Thesis (M.A.)--The Ohio State University, 1931.
Bibliography: leaves 80-84.
Photocopy. Columbus, Ohio : The Ohio State University. 1988. 29
cm.
SUBJECT: Spotswood, Alexander, -- 1676-1740.
Indians of North America -- Virginia -- Christanna settlement.
Indians of North America -- Virginia -- Government relations --
To 1789.
Iron mines and mining -- Virginia.
Land grants -- Virginia.
Virginia -- History -- Colonial period, ca. 1600-1775.
Shenandoah River Valley (Va. and W. Va.) -- History -- Colonial
period, ca. 1600-1775.		07/08/1997 3:18:58
Flowerdew Hundred BookCraig R. ScottHaving had my arm twisted (although not very hard at all) I am about to
consumate Willow Bend's relationship with the University of Virginia Press.
My normal venue would be to obtain the Flowerdew Book in paperback at $12.95
ea., however I am sure that there are some among you who would like it in
cloth at $26.50 ea. Therefore, I am asking those interested to email me and
let me know their wishes before I place the order. If there are any other
University of Virginia books that you are interested in I will be happy to
accomodate you. You can visit the University of Virginia home page at
http://www.upress.virginia.edu to have a look at their catalog. I intend to
place an order on Friday.

C.

Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		07/08/1997 3:40:29
Re:Still searching for Parcus-Pockrus-PortrissMarion & Helene PockrusAl or Maynard, One of you mentioned Dogpile as a good search engine. Can
it be downloaded to use on a regular basis and where?
Helene

07/08/1997 4:46:31
Emily Portace/PortissGail S. TomlinsonThanks for your form letter informing me of your web site. The
specifics of my Portace/Portis ancestor are:

Emily Portace/Portis b. c 1795, d. c 1843, m. Joel Cooper II, in
probably Bedford County, TN. They married c. 1835. Born to them were
Cynthia Sue Cooper b. 6 Nov. 1836, Elizabeth K. "Lizzie" Cooper, b 1839,
and George W. Cooper, b. c. 1843.

Any information about possible Portis/Portace connections in Middle
Tennessee around 1836 will be most appreciated.

Gail S. Tomlinson: tomlinso@gmi.net		07/08/1997 6:55:48
Spotswood, colonial government and Indian tradeAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

1. Craig Scott is going to get pricing and availability for:
The official letters of Alexander Spotswood, leut governor of the colony of
Virginia, 1710-1722, now first printed from the manuscript in the
collections of the Virginia historical society, with an introduction and
notes by R. A. Brock ...Richmond, Va. Virginia Historical Society.

If you're interested in this book, please let Craig know soon.

Craig -- How about posting the availability and pricing to the list when
you get the information for us.

2. Four disseration references of possible interest (2 of them abstracted
below)
If you're not interested in Ft. Christana, Indian trade, early colonial
government, or the social history of Virginia, then no need to read
further .

By the way, most university libraries will loan dissertations. Also, many
are available on microfilm.

Best,
Al Tims
------------------------------------------
Author:FRANKLIN, WILLIAM NEIL
Title:INDIAN TRADE OF COLONIAL VIRGINIA
Publisher:Thesis (PH.D.)--PRINCETON UNIVERSITY, 1928
Date:S1977
Journal:American Doctoral Dissertations
Notes:Source: American Doctoral Dissertations, Source code: S1977.
Abstract: (Not available)
Subjects:History, United States

----------------------------------------------
Author:CARTER-HAMILTON, ANNE
tle:RULES AND RHETORIC AS GOVERNORS OF VIRGINIA HISTORY: A STUDY OF POWER
IN POLITICAL PROCEDURE, 1630S TO 1730S
Publisher:Thesis (PH.D.)--UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, 1985
Date:46-09A
Journal:Dissertation Abstracts International
Notes:Source: Dissertation Abstracts International, Volume: 46-09, Section:
A, page: 2787.
Abstract:This study assumes if a rulership is by the fiat of magistracy
rather than the fiat of arms, then, the authority of the government has
been
established by rules and rhetoric, the construct being man-made for the
protection of life, liberty, and property. Ideally the goal of legislative
decision-making is the furtherance of the public good. Within this
framework
politics as debate is operative, attempting to balance the needs and wants
of
man It is maintained that the perception of reality held by the man of
yesteryear may well be considered mythology and fiction by the man of a
later
year. In every age man seeks to perpetuate his interests by means of
propaganda and fabrication. History strives for truth amid these fancies.
With the acceptance of the lawful, man becomes alerted to the unlawful, the
unlawful in certain instances bearing the label of conspiracy, a defiance
of
the lawful The concern of this study is with the origination and
maintenance
of authority and with the suspicion and actualization of conspiracy. It
deals
with the transition from the rule of the one to the rule of the many. It
considers the establishment of law and order in the colony of Virginia.
There
is the challenge to government by Nathaniel Bacon, and the using of
government
by Alexander Spotswood. Taxes, trade, and towns are seen to be
interrelated
objectives. By means of rules and rhetoric man structured the new world in
the semblance of the old, using the machinery of government to attain
specific
ends (Copies available exclusively from Micrographics Department, Doheny
Library, USC, Los Angeles, CA 90089-0182.)
%Subjects:History, United States

-----------------------------
Author:DODSON, LEONIDAS
Title:ALEXANDER SPOTSWOOD, GOVERNOR OF COLONIAL VIRGINIA, 1710-1722
Publisher:Thesis (PH.D.)--THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA, 1927
Date:L1932
Journal:American Doctoral Dissertations
Notes:Source: American Doctoral Dissertations, Source code: L1932., page:
0047.
Abstract: (Not available)
Subjects:History, American

-------------------------------
Author:SHROCK, PAUL RANDALL
Title:MAINTAINING THE PREROGATIVE: THREE ROYAL GOVERNORS IN VIRGINIA AS A
CASE STUDY, 1710-1758
Publisher:Thesis (PH.D.)--THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL,
1980
Date:41-04A
Journal:Dissertation Abstracts International
Notes:Source: Dissertation Abstracts International, Volume: 41-04, Section:
A, page: 1738.
Abstract:This dissertation examines three royal governors in Virginia from
1710 to 1758 to determine how and why they succeeded or failed in
maintaining
the prerogative, the rights and powers inherent in the king's power to
rule.
Focusing on Governors Alexander Spotswood, William Gooch and Robert
Dinwiddie,
this work argues that gubernatorial success hinged on much more than the
official powers proclaimed in the governor's commission and instructions.
In
particular, executives derived influence by possessing expertise in
contemporary concerns, by coercing and rewarding subjects, and even by
reinforcing genteel colonial values. Throughout, the chronological context
of
governing was significant. For instance, the territorial pressures
engendered
by the westward expansion of the British colonies toward the French created
problems for Dinwiddie which never confronted Spotswood Above all, this
dissertation stresses that interest was always a central gubernatorial
concern--but not always in the same way. Spotswood used colonial interest
to
preserve power; in contrast, Gooch used power to balance conflicting
interests; and despite his disavowals, Dinwiddie used power to advance
individual and corporate interest. This focus on interest impaired the
prerogative. More specifically, seeking to balance competing needs of
Virginians and fellow Englishmen diminished Gooch's willingness to maintain
the prerogative. When Virginians discovered that Dinwiddie, unlike Gooch,
was
flagrantly untrue to his claim of protecting Virginia's interest, Dinwiddie
could only fall back upon the official authority of his station and thereby
governed for the most part without colonial approval. Thus, Dinwiddie did
not
maintain the prerogative because he was not of Virginia; paradoxically,
Gooch
did not because he was of Virginia. For both, maintaining the prerogative
was
less significant than pursuing interest, and when Spotswood before them had
endeavored to use interest as a means to maintain the prerogative, he too
failed Regardless of gubernatorial success at maintaining the prerogative,
Virginians preferred to savor rather than to sever the imperial nexus,
principally because they had been able to redress grievances. In seeking
their own interest, Virginians had learned much about liberty and
authority.
They preferred to seek the good of the colony, if not individual
well-being,
rather than to observe the wishes of the empire. Generally lacking
irrational
fears of a conspiracy against their liberties, Virginians rationally
pursued
their self-interest. In essence, questions of corrupt executives
encroaching
upon liberty or threatening legislative rights concerned Virginians less
than
questions of interest Yet, by conditioning colonials to the reality that
American and English interests were at odds, Dinwiddie reminded Virginians
that their relationship to the crown was formal rather than emotional.
Consequently, Virginians preserved only a legal bond of loyalty to the king
as
representative of a larger political organism. In the face of ineffective
government, was there no solution to maintaining the prerogative? For
Dinwiddie, and higher British officials, the only means was more formal
authority: parliamentary legislation to bring the colonies into line with
British interest Consequently the context of governing would completely
change
after 1763 with Parliament's enactment of a series of measure designed to
tie
the provinces more closely to British interest. Among other concerns,
Parliament and English officials recognized that royal governors were poor
managers of provincial politcial systems with their competing claims of
interest. Thus, gubernatorial efforts to maintain the prerogative fell
victim
to colonial opposition, if not hostility, and ultimately to parliamentary
intervention as well.
Subjects:History, United States
-------------------------------		07/08/1997 7:53:13
Info-Martha DixonMartha didn't make connections on giving the web page address to her AOL
daughter in Richmond but she did get me the AOL address for her daughter,
Alice Dixon.

The purpose of my e-mail to Alice (below) was to get her the right address
for the web page and tell her she could make her mother a very happy lady by
printing all that stuff for her.

Since I was already in the door, I couldn't resist giving Alice a sales
pitch, especially as she lives in Richmond.

Maynard

Hello Alice. My name is Maynard Poythress and I have been having some
correspondence with your mother recently on Poythress genealogy. She has
provided me with some most valuable information. Martha is indeed a gracious
lady.

Your mother and you and I descend from the same crowd of Poythresses in
Brunswick, Prince George, Dinwiddie, Mecklenburg, etc. counties. The part of
the family that we share moved to Georgia ca 1786. I don't know that any of
us will ever unravel all those Georgia people but we are certainly trying.

I believe (hope) that some of the information I have sent to Martha has been
valuable also. Your mother truly did some pioneering work on researching this
family back when doing so was not easy. While the amount of information has
probably not grown in recent years, the ability to get at it via on-line
access and e-mail has certainly made the job a lot easier than it was when
your mother and my mother were blowing away gnats in dusty old south Georgia
courthouses.

I belong to a group who (we think) is doing some exciting stuff with
researching this family. There are 30+ of us in a round-robin e-mail
"discussion group". We are located from England to California. In addition
to the discussion group, we post a webpage as a source of reference
information on a number of subjects related to the family, its history, its
allied families, etc. Perhaps 8 or 10 of us are very active, the rest often
just "auditing" the dialogue just because they are interested in it for
whatever reason. Group members are all friendly and getting comfortable
chatting "on the patio" is a very quick proposition. Few of us have ever met
some or even any of the other members but we overcome that and usually right
away.

Different from many genealogy "pages" that simply stand up a "tree" and start
hanging names and dates on it, we post original documents (well,
transcriptions anyway), graphics, posting of land patents overlaid on large
scale gazatteer pages, serious papers, etc. We will be delighted to have you
visit the page. The address is:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

I hope you will find it interesting and I know you will find it hospitable if
you decide to join the discussion group (instructions on the webpage) which
is quite easy to bail out of if it proves boring or not what you had in mind.
Simply type "unsubscribe" and you are out of there. The web page above, of
course, may be visited as often and as long as you wish and that is a purely
anonymous proposition.

I do know how you can make your mother a very, very happy lady. Print out all
(or maybe just "a lot") of that material on the Poythress webpage and share
it with your mother the next time you visit her. As you will see, if you
plan to print it at a friend's home in Charlotte you might want to take the
friend a ream of paper and a fresh ink cartridge. And, as a fair warning,
when you join the discussion group we may just put you to work and get you
addicted to genealogy. After all, you're living in Richmond and that's where
most of the information is. Seriously, you can participate at whatever level
you are comfortable and there is nothing wrong with printing the posts and
mailing them to your mother if you choose. My guess is that will delight her.

Thanks for helping us get this information to your mother. I plan to
continue mail corresponding with her and by that means perhaps make up in
part for the fact that she has no e-mail or internet access to information
she enjoys.

Please feel free to get back to me if I can provide further information or if
there is anything you wish to talk to me about. I can be reached at
vkratliff@aol.com.
Thanks for "sharing" your mother with us; she is a treat.

Sincerely,

Maynard		07/08/1997 9:07:57
Some points to ponder (I hope)James L. PooleSince I'm the nut who started all this discussion on Fort Chritanna and the
Indian Company, I thought it about time to better explain to the list my
motivations. Al, Paul, and Lea, please bear with me as you've heard a lot
of this from me in personal messages.

I've learned that sociology, economics, and history are really just three
dimensions of the same thing, and are always parts of the same human
equation. The first two are independent variables in the equation, with
history being the dependent variable.

I've always been one to try to "get into the heads" of my ancestors and
really understand them. This obsession has paid off handsomely in the past
in making connections that just weren't there with the raw facts of deeds,
wills, etc.

So, why am I so interested in the Indian Company, Fort Christanna, etc?
The answer is to better understand the Poythresses, and the allied
families we've been discussing the last few days, their place in society,
and their relationships to each other. To me, this is what makes genealogy
become alive, not to discount the possibility of discovering new
connections.

In addition to the families whose histories I've attempted to document and
which Al has posted, I've also got Burwells, Allens, Harrisons, Jordans,
Coggans, and many others on my tree somewhere. I'm far from finished, but
I have studied a lot of families from the area of southern Virginia. And
through this study I've become aware of some patterns that aren't easily
found in the "casual" literature.

When I got deep into my Allen, and allied families (of Surry County) -- my
ancestor was a brother of the Arthur Allen who built Bacon's Castle, which
led me into studying Bacon's Rebellion -- I really started to understand
something that is not in the common histories. There really was a clique,
a secret society almost, of merchants and traders who formed the nucleus of
the local government, at least in southern VA -- they were the church
aldermen, the Burgesses, the militia commanders, and generally all the
influential positions that could help them in acquiring their wealth.
These were the true movers and shakers in their society. The aristocratic
sons came over and soon "rotted" from lack of industriousness; the yeomen
just struggled with life. The Burwells, Harrisons, Byrds, Epes', etc. did
not come to America as wealthy people, but they acquired great wealth
before their lines began to wilt. Where did they get that wealth? Trade!
and who did they trade with? the Indians!

Why do I refer to their clique as a secret society? Well, it was more open
in the mid 1600's --until Bacon's Rebellion. Governor Berkley was deeply
involved in the Indian trade, and his looking after his own commercial
interests and that of his cronies, was a large part of what Bacon's
Rebellion was really all about. The yeomen basically revolted from his
high-handed approach to government, and his blatant conflict of interests.
So after that event, those who continued in "the trade" did so much more
covertly and secretly -- or at least not nearly as openly as Berkley and
his cronies did. But I've learned to correlate that anyone who was
well-placed in the late 1600's and early 1700's in southern Virginia seemed
to fit a common pattern -- relatively new wealth in an area that couldn't
generate wealth except through trade with the Indians. Enough pieces have
now come together in my mind to make me sure of this hypothesis. So if we
want to understand the Poythresses, the Walls, the Hicks, etc., etc., I
think, first, we have to understand this brotherhood. It would certainly
help this understanding if we could place the players in their proper
stratum of the order of things.

I've already commented on the Indian Company, Fort Christanna, and the
people who seemed to be associated with it. Did you catch the fact that
Governor Spotswood, himself, was named President of the short-lived Comp
any? So he, like Governor Berkley before him, was really a member of the
"gang."

And just like any other social grouping there had to be a pecking order.
My hunch is that the Byrds, the Burwells, the Harrisons, and maybe the
Epes', etc., were at the top, along with Governor Spotswood -- that's where
these people got their wealth, which curiously no one seems to ask about.
Then I'd guess that the Poythresses, the Hardimans, and maybe the Walls,
were on the next level (maybe the Epes family fit here). It would seem
that the Hicks' and the Ransomes might have been on the third level. etc,
etc. Somehow, I'm convinced, all the pieces are there just waiting to be
put together. That's why the Indian Company charter, and the Spotswood
Papers are so important to me -- they will give us clues about this
"hidden" society.

Let me dangle some other tantalizing clues: Sandy Krutilek (a Poythress
descendant who got me started on them, and who happens to be a first-rate
researcher, but not connected electronically), pointed out that Thomas
Goodwyn/Godwyn was captain of the schooner "Henrietta." BOTH the
Poythresses and the Hardimans were part owners of this ship according to
her (and I have since found reason to believe that the Epes family was also
involved, or part owners). I haven't seen her proof, but if she says so,
it's because it has basis. If you go to my Wall file, you will see that
John Wall, Sr., was the executor of Thomas Goodwyn's will, and spent quite
a bit of time bringing his estate to a close. This relationship between
John Wall and Thomas Goodwyn (and the others) could not have been just a
casual, or purely professional, relationship.

Another thought to ponder: one didn't establish "business" relations with
the Indians by walking up to the Chief and just handing him one's business
card. No, these relationships were carefully cultivated, and probably over
a great deal of time. And there's no doubt that some of the members of the
trade society actually gained entry into the Indians' confidence by
marrying into the tribe (Lea & Jean, that one's for you).

For those that have read to the bottom of this missive, I thank you for
your forbearance. And please excuse my inability to clearly and concisely
describe my thought process. But I firmly believe that if we're to make
real progress on the Poythress clan, and the families allied and associated
with them, we have to understand their social and their economic interests;
and then (and only then) will we understand their history.

Just a babbling fool's contribution for the night....

Lou		07/08/1997 9:24:27
Re: MiscCharles NealMaynard,
You were right; after hearing from you that I do have it, I searched more
diligently & finally found Edward Giles' will, which I had mis-filed by
folding it between some huge photocopy-sheets from Mecklenburg Index to
wills. My copy of the will indicates that it is one that BPW had tracked
down & photocopied from microfilm of the Mecklenburg Co, VA Will Book 8,
covering 1813-1819, pp. 415-416.

What is the status of the "I've got a sleeper working" re ordering
photocopies of Augusta [GA] Chronicle articles 1786-1830, which you said
had about 30 Poythress entries? In that paragraph, I wasn't sure whether
you have already ordered them, or just plan to look them up next time you
are in GA, or what.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/8/97		07/08/1997 9:34:55
Misc.BPN....re Edward Giles will. Its Mecklenburg. I got it so you got it. Look
in your archives. Its a photo-copy of the original which is why it may not
be in your indexed file. If you still can't find it gimmie a growl and I'll
copy it for you. Remind me its
pg. 52 in my Va. Vol. 2.

Al....re the current So. Ga. Poythress soiree...I agree, leave it to Bud and
me and
anybody else ready to jump in and help if we are recognizably seen doing
something dumb. I suspect Bud will agree that is likely to be "often". Bud,
you gotta put that snapping-turtle-grip brainbone of yours on this one.

In fact, I have sort of been just filing and leaving it to you all on Fort
Christianna (although I will say you all are whetting my appetite on this
one) and the land patents. I want to concentrate on the Ga. thing and
getting the whole shebang put together from W&M collection of Va. Gazette(the
one Lori is going to help me with but she doesn't know it yet...being a
natural as an alumna of the place).

Plus, I've got a sleeper working....one can order photo copies of Augusta
Chronicle articles for 1786 to 1830 and in the personal name index there are
probably 30 or so P. entries. These entries include the slaves with the
surname which really had my curiousity going until I found out that was sort
of a "cheater"...if they knew the slave's first name they just automatically
gave him the owners surname to get him on the list. Obviously, the government
was paying the good 'ol boy census takers by the name so names they got! In
addition to the slaves they probably got some names off tombstones. Thats a
tradition in south Georgia....in Toombs County some of those folks actually
got up out of those graves and went in to vote for Gene Talmadge back in the
forties. Maybe thats a good idea for David's campaign, I'll see what he
thinks.

That may be the answer to my question as to why there were many, many black
P's on the Georgia census of 1870 and zero on the 1880 census. Perhaps the
guys doing the 1870 census (even though war was over 5 years by then) just
took the easy way out and gave the blacks the surname of previous
masters....and then by 1880 the blacks had gotten increased recognition, at
least enough increased recognition to be asked what their surname was and had
chosen something besides Poythress . I can't believe that many blacks would
have actually "moved" without leaving a single soul. In fact, I rather
suspect NONE of them moved, they just sharecropped the land they previously
worked as slaves and picked out their own surnames which history says is par
for the course. Alternatively, in 1880 the government may have stopped
paying census takers "by the name".

Lou & Al: I have that bibliography from Al and comments from Lou on the Fort
Christiana thing. It will be on my list for trip to LVA. Looking over your
bibliography, Al, I'd be inclined to say that if one of those books turns out
to be fairly comprehensive and names as many names as we expect then it might
be worth buying a copy if Craig can find it for us.

Al, tell me about "WorldCat".....is it a search engine just for books? Can
it search by "topic"? Whats it's address?

Best to all,

Maynard		07/08/1997 10:51:57
Re: Some points to ponder (I hope)Marion & Helene PockrusLou:
From a non Poythress --I am impressed with your study and knowledge of the
early history of our southern culture and the economics. I am sharing it
with my hubby who is a history buff. You are making a history nut out of
me. I haven't anyone in this family that I can track but it's well worth
thinking about and is thought provoking.. Thanks for your thoughtful
outlook on history. I for one am enjoying it.
Helene POCKRUS
----------

07/08/1997 11:05:40
Re: Portace/Portiss/Porkis/Porcus/PockrusMarion & Helene PockrusVery Interesting!.....Watch for Parcus families that are in TN that time
frame, Pokres, Parkis, etc.
Helene Pockrus

----------
> From: Gail S. Tomlinson
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Emily Portace/Portiss
> Date: Tuesday, July 08, 1997 6:55 AM
>
> Thanks for your form letter informing me of your web site. The
> specifics of my Portace/Portis ancestor are:
>
> Emily Portace/Portis b. c 1795, d. c 1843, m. Joel Cooper II, in
> probably Bedford County, TN. They married c. 1835. Born to them were
> Cynthia Sue Cooper b. 6 Nov. 1836, Elizabeth K. "Lizzie" Cooper, b 1839,
> and George W. Cooper, b. c. 1843.
>
> Any information about possible Portis/Portace connections in Middle
> Tennessee around 1836 will be most appreciated.
>
> Gail S. Tomlinson: tomlinso@gmi.net		07/08/1997 11:22:02
Sessional Papers From 1709-1712Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Since we are gathering sources for further study of the early Christanna
settlement, Indian affairs, etc. I certainly believe we should make a
point of examining the following original documents.

Source:

Virginia Colonial Records Project Survey Report 1605
Depository: Public Records Office
Title: Sessional Papers (Duplicates)
Dates: 1709-1712
Reference: Andrews List 500, 503
List of Colonial Office Records, Supplementary List II, 5.
Examined: 13 Feb. 1958, Exposures 283

Scope: Contains ten volumes. The volumes are not numbered, but there
is a continuous foliation (ff 1-300) running through the ten volumes.
The journals are duplicates of those in C.O.5/1406 and C.O.5/1414.

(Some example entries suggesting a broader examination might be productive)

31 January 1711/12 (ff.255-256)

Acceptance by Council of Receiver General's offer to advance 400 pounds
for payment to Tuscarora Indians, as House of Burgesses have made no
provisions for such supply; preparations against possible Indian
attack.

20 February 1711/12 (ff.256v-257v)

Petition of inhabitants of Neuse River in North Carolina re Indian
attacks; government can do nothing more because of lack of revenue;
PETER POYTHRESS sent to Tuscarora Indians with trading goods to carry
out articles of the alliance.

1 April 1712 (ff 257v-259)

Request from North Carolina for two hundred men to assist in war
against Indians: decision that, due to lack of revenue, only force
of 100 can be sent; details of their pay; arrangments for raising
money, etc.; failure of Tuscarora Indians to fulfil their treaty
obligations.

Best,

Al Tims		07/08/1997 11:28:24
ReSLC FHCMarion & Helene PockrusAll right gang, I'll offer the following:

About once a month I go up to the Family History Library. I moved here
just for the JOY of researching! Anyhow, if you can spell out a simple
request in monosylablistic phrases as to a specific thing you want to see a
copy of, I will do my best to find it and get a copy of it. I know the
Library like the back of my hand. Every conceivable map is there, ancient
books and out of prints are there. Everything is there (except my POCKRUS
families I think).
Too I have here in my home, and I'm afraid to mention this too loudly, the
complete Family Search Program. That includes the Ancestral file, the IGi,
SSDI and the Library catalog. I'll do look up these as time permits. I
haven't mentioned this out there until now. I've offered a couple of times
to help someone out and it got out of hand. So easy does it.
Now help find my POCKRUS families.

Helene

07/08/1997 11:34:17
Thomas Poythress Brunswick Co. deed mentionsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I posted the following several months ago. Not much notice was taken at
the time . However, with new members and a growing interest in
neighboring families I figure this is worth bringing back to the top of the
inbox. Please note the surnames mentioned and the mention of THOMAS
Poythress in these records.

So, which Thomas might this be?

Also, anyone know where the old Baptist Meeting House was located?

Best,
Al
-------------------------------------------------------

This Indenture made this twenty second Day of January, 1781 BETWEEN
William Mason, Mary, his wife, and William Gilliam of the County of
Brunswick of the one part and Robert Spencer of the said County of other
part . . . for and in consideration of the sum of twenty seven thousand
pounds of Tobacco . . . doth grant bargain and sell enfeoff & confirm unto
the said Robert Spencer . . . one certain Tract or parcel of Land lying and
being in the said County of Brunswick containing by estimation three
hundred and twenty eight acres, including two acres whereon the Baptist
Meeting House stands, and which is reserved and excepted out of the said
tract of Land for the sole use of the said Meeting House, . . . it is
bounded thus BEGINNING at a new marked line of Lewis
Charleses (sic) corner on Thomas Mop's line thence along the said Thomas
Mop's line to Thomas Jeffers's line, thence along the said Thomas Jeffers's
line to Thomas
Pears line, thence along Thomas Pears line to Mary Dunns line, thence along
Mary Dunns line to a corner white oak at the edge of Lewis Charles old
field, thence along a new line dividing between the said Land the Land of
Lewis Charles to the beginning . . . Signed by William Mason, Mary Mason,
and William Gilliam, and witnessed by Mark Jackson, John Prince, and Thomas
Poythress. At a Court held for Brunswick
County the 22d Day of January 1781. This Indenture was Acknowledged by
William Mason and William Gilliam Parties thereto and Ordered to be
recorded. Deed Book
14, page 86.

This Indenture made this sixty Day of November 1787 BETWEEN Isham Randle
and Frances Randle of the County of Brunswick of the one part and Edward
Drumgold of
the County aforesaid of the other part . . . for and in consideration of
the sum of twenty
pounds . . . doth grant bargain sell and confirm unto the said Edward
Drumgold . . . one certain tract or parcel of Land containing by Estimation
fifty acres . . . lying and being in the County aforesaid and adjoining the
land of William Warrick, generally known by the name of Randle's Ordinary
also by the land of Benjamin Britt and Edward Drumgold BEGINNING at a
corner on the Pitch Landing Road on a corner pine thence along William
Warrick's to a corner pine in the head of Bennett's great branch, thence
down said branch to a corner maple on Edward Drumgold's line, thence along
said line to a corner white oak,
thence along said line to a corner pine on Benjamin Britt's line, thence
along said line to the Pitch Landing Road, thence up said road to the
BEGINNING . . . Signed by Isham Randle and Frances Randle (her mark) and
witnessed by William Finch, Thomas Poythress and George Walton.
Brunswick County Court April the 28th 1788. This Indenture was proved by
the oaths of William Finch and George Walton witnesses thereto and having
been proved on the 28th Day of last January by the oath of Thomas Poytrass
also a witness thereto is ordered to be recorded. Deed Book 14, page 350.		07/08/1997 11:36:51
re: Lou's points to ponderStarrHello POYTHRESS researchers,
I must say Lou "hit the nail on the head" as to why I joined this list;
it's the uncanny connections of these "southside" VA famiies and those in
NC and GA. I would like to add a couple more surnames to Lou's "pecking
order" of VA society -- RANDOLPH and BOLLING. The latter should get the
attention of the Indian researchers for I believe BOLLING is a "documented"
Melungeon name. And incidentally, the specific reason I'm on this list -- I
figured POYTHRESS was easier to research than BOLLING or RANDOLPH (all of
you can now get up from the floor, laughing) -- and with two lines which
have BOLLING as given names and another with RANDOLPH, it seemed a natural.

I have two books which I recommend along the lines of Lou's theory that
the study of sociology, economics and history goes along with genealogy.
One is _Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America_ by David Hackett
Fischer, Oxford Press NY 1989. He covers the VA elite and how connected
they were by marriage, cousinship, etc. -- he specifically traces back to
one lady in particular. Of special interest to this group is the footnote
on page 216 which talks about the 152 VAians who held top offices in the
late 17th and early 18th centuries: (paraphrasing and picking out only the
surnames I "think" are of most interest to this group -- BTW the read this
after typing the first part of this message.)

There were 16 aristocratic connections, including: Berkeley, Culpepper,
Digges, Fairfax, Mason, Matthews, Spotswood, West. The Gentry families
included: Bacon, Batte, Bathurst, Bennet, Bland, Burwell, Clarke, Cocke,
Harrison, Isham, Kemp, Lee, Lightfoot, Randolph, Reade, Tucker, Warner,
Washinton.
The "Armigerous urban families" included: Bland, Byrd, Cary, Fitzhugh,
Ludwell. And "Lesser ranks" included: Blair, Bassett, Beverley, Bolling,
Chew, Jones, Allerton, Madison, Fry. "Not of English origins" included:
Taliaferro, Eppes, Hartwell, Jefferson, Lewis, and PORTEUS. [Please note
-- Fischer says PORTEUS isn't English, not I. ]

And note to Craig here: I'd love to get a copy of Fischer's second vol.
in this series -- _American Plantations_ but everything I've seen says it's
out of print. If you ever come across one, please get it for me.

Another book I highly recommend is: _A Place in Time: Middlesex Co. VA
1650-1750_, by Darrett B. and Anita H. Rutman. Norton: NY, 1984 ISBN
0-393-01801-6. Even though I don't have any direct lines in Middlesex
Co., there's a lot of useful information about social patterns in the 17th
century. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/09/1997 1:48:06
book SearchMarion & Helene PockrusLinda:
I have in the past gotten books that are out of print. There is a
bookstore here that does that sort of thing. He searches, buys and sells
old books. If you like, I could call them and find out if there is one
available & have them notify you when it is and how much.
I would definitely need the author's name and the full title. They
specialize in this type of search. Been in business over 100 years. It's
the Sam Weller Book Store in SLC Utah.
By the way, I loved the Porteus(Porkeus?-Pockrus?) connection!
Helene Pockrus
----------		07/09/1997 3:54:26
LVA POYTHRESS NOTESMURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)I have just started into the POYTHRESS discussion list. I do not know
what you have discussed and/or what most of the POYTHRESS researchers
are looking for. But I do know it is important to keep those that do
not have the ability to retrieve information, whether by Internet of
from larger libraries, informed on what is available. Some it is old
news, but for others it is what they are waiting for.

If this is not the forum for this type of information, then you have my
permission to flame me. I will learn quickly!

The following was extracted from the Digital Collection SEARCH at the
Library of Virginia. (One of these days when I come back to America, I
will be able to visit these places most of you take for granted).

Accession No 34866
Title Preston-Poythress family Bible record, 1795-1918.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 34866.
Location 11th St. at Capitol Sq., Richmond, VA 23219.
Size 8 leaves.
Summary Includes Bible record (3 leaves) and typed transcript (5
leaves). Areas covered are Brunswick and Mecklenburg counties, Virginia;
Alabma; Georgia; Mississippi and Tennessee. Other surnames mentioned:
Bennett, Cleaton Crowder, Gilbert, Lavendar, McKinley, Sargett and
Stanley.

----------------

Acession No 28772
Title Mayo family Bible record, 1792-1843.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 28772.
Size 3 leaves.
Summary Area covered is Powhatan County, Virginia. Bible printed in
1769. Other surnames mentioned: McNemara, Poythress, Tabb, and Tennent.

--------------------

Accession No 33443
Title Jones family Bible record, 1630-1926.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 33443.
Size 8 leaves.
Summary Area covered is Dinwiddie County and Petersburg, Virginia.
Bible published in 1824. Other surnames mentioned: Bennet, Bland,
Bolling, Bragg, Cox, Gilliam, Hamner, Lundy, McKenney, Meacham,
Mickelbrough, Poythress, Pryor, Randolph, Shore, and Yates.
Note These records are from the Bible of Benjamin Jones.

---------------------

Accession No 28758
Title Flowerdew Hundred collection, 1673-1893.
Record Ser. Personal papers collection; 28758.
Location 11th St. at Capitol Sq., Richmond, Va. 23219.
Size 75 cubic ft. (91 items)
Background Flowerdew Hundred was patented and named by Sir George
Yeardley in 1618. In 1624, the property was transferred to Abraham
Peirsey whose daughter, Mrs. Elizabeth Stephens, repatented it in 1636.
She sold it to William Barker and the property eventually came into the
possession of John Taylor who willed it to his heirs in 1707 (proved
1709). His heiresses who married John and Francis Hardyman and [Henry?]
Duke sold the property to [Joshua] Poythress. The lands were eventually
reassembled by purchase and descent from the several owners and became
the property of the Willcox family.
Summary This collection consists of a variety of legal documents
associated with the Flowerdew Hundred property and its owners. There
are also several letters and a journal of John Poythress Willcox
concerning a visit to the Northeastern United States in 1827.
Finding Aid Inventory available in repository: item level control.
Cite As Flowerdew Hundred Collection, Accession 28758, Personal papers
collection, The Library of Virginia. Archives Branch, Richmond, Virginia
23219.

----------------------

Accession No 24288
Title Claiborne family Bible record, 1621-1954.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 24288.
Size 32 leaves.
Summary Area covered is Dinwiddie County, Virginia. Bible printed in
1859. Other surnames mentioned: Baskerville, Blunt, Butler, Clayton,
Coleman, Dillon, Doyle, Duke, Early, Edmunds, Epps, Ferguson, Fern, Fox,
Fraser, Hardaway, Harper, Hicks, Hinton, Jones, King, Lewis, Lipscomb,
Lloyd, Powell, Poythress, Ravenscroft, Rives, Robertson, Robinson,
Russell, Simms, Spain, Taylor, Thweatt, Topp, Tucker, Walker, and
Zehmer.

----------------

Accession No Miscellaneous reel 701
Title Maitland-Harrison-Pollock family Bible record, 1645-1891
[microform].
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 22837.
Size 10 leaves.
Size microfilm.
Summary Areas covered are Prince George and Surry counties, Petersburg
and Norfolk City, Virginia; North Carolina; and Scotland. Bible printed
in 1830. Other surnames mentioned: Atkinson, Avery, Baird, Bassett,
Batte, Beach(?), Bland, Bray, Brown, Burwell, Carter, Claiborne, Cocke,
Collier, Coupland, Cullen, Devereux, Dunlop, Edwards, Ellison, Eppes,
Gilliam, Goode, Henry, Johnson, Lee, Lenox, Mayo, McKenzie, Minge,
Morrison, Murray, Newton, Osborne, Pierpont, Polk, Poythress, Randolph,
Richardson, Ruffin, Runciman, Sanderson, Scolley, Singleton, Skipwith,
Smart, Stith, Swan, Van Cortlandt, and Williams.

-----------------------

Accession No 34362
Title Robertson family Bible record, 1739-1765.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 34362.
Size 1 leaf.
Summary Record is a typed transcript. Other surnames mentioned:
Blaikley, Poindexter, and Poythress.

--------------------

Accession No Miscellaneous reel 445
Title Atkinson family Bible record, 1753-1958 [microform].
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 28126.
Size 7 leaves.
Summary Areas covered are Lunenburg County (Virginia); and Texas.
Bible printed in 1835. Other surnames mentioned: Jones, Kemper, Mayo,
Page, Personby (?), Poythress, and Zander.

---------------------

Accession No Miscellaneous reel 445
Title Bland family Bible record, 1630-1921 [microform].
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 28126.
Location reel 445.
Size 2 leaves.
Summary The record is a notarized typed transcript. Areas covered are
Dinwiddie County, and Williamsburg (Virginia). Other surnames mentioned:
Bragg, Jones, Meacham, Poythress, Pryor, Randolph, and Yates.

--------------------

Accession No 35260
Author Batte, R. Bolling (Robert Bolling), 1906-1996.
Title Papers, 1918-1992.
Record Ser. Personal papers collection; 35260.
Size 26.9 cu. ft.
Background Born in Norfolk, Virginia on 13 August 1906. Graduated from
Virginia Military Institute in 1928. Engineer, C & P Telephone Co.
Earned an LL.B. degree from Virginia College of Law. Resident of
Richmond, Virginia. Died in Petersburg, Virginia on 3 June 1996. Buried
in Elmwood Cemetery, Norfolk, Virginia.
Summary Genealogical research files of Robert Bolling Batte, including
family research files, subject files and county research notes,
extensive information on the Batte, Brodnax, Ingram, Epes/Eppes and
Jones families, and card files. Also contained in the Collection is
information which was compiled by Augusta B. Fothergill (Augusta
Bridgland Middleton Fothergill, 1876-1965) and Alice L. Ingram (Alice
Littlepage Ingram, 1891-1982). Every effort was made during processing
of the collection to maintain the original order of the materials. In
some cases, information amassed by all three individuals can be found in
the same folder.
Summary The family research files contain genealogical notes
abstracted form court records, including deed books, order books, will
books and marriage records. There is a substanial amount of information
on the Blow, Bolling, Drummond, Harrison, Jones, Lee, Lewis, Moseley,
Poythress, Smith and Willis families. Families researched are from all
over Virginia, but there is a particular emphasis on those from Amelia,
Brunswick, Dinwiddie, Lunenburg, Nottoway, Prince George and Sussex
Counties. The majority of this group of records were compiled by
Augusta B. Fothergill.
Summary The subject files and county research notes also include
abstracts from court records, as well as correspondence, clippings,
tombstone inscriptions, pedigree charts and published works. This group
of records is largely the work of R. Bolling Batte.
Summary The Batte files contain information on the descendants of
Captain John Batte who came to Virginia from Oakwell Hall, Yorkshire,
England in 1643. Included is correspondence, abstracts, source material
received from other individuals, as well as Various forms of a
manuscript on the Batte family, which R. Bolling Batte had intended to
complete and publish.
Summary The Brodnax/Ingram files were compiled by Alice Littlepage
Ingram and contain correspondence, source material from other
individuals, copies of court records, and information on Brodnax family
homes.
Summary The Epes/Eppes files document R. Bolling Batte's interest in
the ancestors of Francis Epes I. They include court record copies and
abstracts, Bible records, correspondence, trial charts, clippings,
source notes from other individuals, and other information concerning
Batte's membership in the Epes Society.
Summary The Jones files contain information compiled by Augusta B.
Fothergill in the course of researching her book PETER JONES AND RICHARD
JONES GENEALOGIES, published in 1924. They include court record
abstracts, Bible records, correspondence, notes from other individuals
and manuscript drafts.
Summary The alphabetical card files contain more than thirty thousand
cards, each representing an individual. Each card gives as much
information on the subject as was known when they were compiled,
including date and place of birth, full names of parents, date and place
of marriage(s), name of spouse, notation of education, public offices
held, profession, military service, date and place of death, and place
of burial. Codes are used on the right end of each line to indicate
sources. On the backs of the cards appear extracts from pertinent
documents, tombstone inscriptions, obituary notices and a listing of the
subject's children.
Summary At the end of the card files is an index to the sources which
were used in their compilation. The canary yellow cards give the author
of the source and are filed alphabetically. The cherry cards give the
subject of the source and are also filed alphabetically. Also included
are miscellaneous index cards to sources, counties, cities, family
Bibles, cemetery records, census lists, marriage records, newspapers,
other published sources, parish registers and wills which were used in
the compilation of the card files. Finally, there is a title/subject
card index covering articles appearing in CIVIL WAR TIMES ILLUSTRATED.
Finding Aid Inventory-aavailable in repository Folder level control.
Cite As R. Bolling Batte Papers, 1918-1992. Accession 35260, Personal
papers collection, The Library of Virginia, Richmond, Va. 23219.
Related Augusta B. Fothergill Papers, 1925-1955 (Accession 35204).
---------------------------------------------------------
Enjoy!

Paul Murauskas
g3socsgm@hq.c5.army.mil

"Writing from Heidelberg, Germany"		07/09/1997 4:33:38
RE: LVA POYTHRESS NOTESJames L. PooleWell, it didn't take Paul long to make a BIG contribution. I haven't
mastered the search technique for the on-line LVA list, so I very much
appreciate his findings. I'm sure that these will be valuable to a lot of
us, but the ones that really caught my eye were: 1) the Claiborne family
Bible record, 1621-1954 [did you notice the names that are grouped in this
one?], and 2) Maitland-Harrison-Pollock family Bible record, 1645-1891
[ditto]. Those appear to be genelogical gold mines for the folks on this
list!

Thanks, Paul.

Lou

-----Original Message-----
From: MURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM) [SMTP:G3SOCSGM@HQ.C5.ARMY.MIL]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 5:34 AM
To: 'POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com'
Subject: LVA POYTHRESS NOTES

I have just started into the POYTHRESS discussion list. I do not know
what you have discussed and/or what most of the POYTHRESS researchers
are looking for. But I do know it is important to keep those that do
not have the ability to retrieve information, whether by Internet of
from larger libraries, informed on what is available. Some it is old
news, but for others it is what they are waiting for.

If this is not the forum for this type of information, then you have my
permission to flame me. I will learn quickly!

The following was extracted from the Digital Collection SEARCH at the
Library of Virginia. (One of these days when I come back to America, I
will be able to visit these places most of you take for granted).

Accession No 34866
Title Preston-Poythress family Bible record, 1795-1918.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 34866.
Location 11th St. at Capitol Sq., Richmond, VA 23219.
Size 8 leaves.
Summary Includes Bible record (3 leaves) and typed transcript (5
leaves). Areas covered are Brunswick and Mecklenburg counties, Virginia;
Alabma; Georgia; Mississippi and Tennessee. Other surnames mentioned:
Bennett, Cleaton Crowder, Gilbert, Lavendar, McKinley, Sargett and
Stanley.

----------------

Acession No 28772
Title Mayo family Bible record, 1792-1843.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 28772.
Size 3 leaves.
Summary Area covered is Powhatan County, Virginia. Bible printed in
1769. Other surnames mentioned: McNemara, Poythress, Tabb, and Tennent.

--------------------

Accession No 33443
Title Jones family Bible record, 1630-1926.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 33443.
Size 8 leaves.
Summary Area covered is Dinwiddie County and Petersburg, Virginia.
Bible published in 1824. Other surnames mentioned: Bennet, Bland,
Bolling, Bragg, Cox, Gilliam, Hamner, Lundy, McKenney, Meacham,
Mickelbrough, Poythress, Pryor, Randolph, Shore, and Yates.
Note These records are from the Bible of Benjamin Jones.

---------------------

Accession No 28758
Title Flowerdew Hundred collection, 1673-1893.
Record Ser. Personal papers collection; 28758.
Location 11th St. at Capitol Sq., Richmond, Va. 23219.
Size 75 cubic ft. (91 items)
Background Flowerdew Hundred was patented and named by Sir George
Yeardley in 1618. In 1624, the property was transferred to Abraham
Peirsey whose daughter, Mrs. Elizabeth Stephens, repatented it in 1636.
She sold it to William Barker and the property eventually came into the
possession of John Taylor who willed it to his heirs in 1707 (proved
1709). His heiresses who married John and Francis Hardyman and [Henry?]
Duke sold the property to [Joshua] Poythress. The lands were eventually
reassembled by purchase and descent from the several owners and became
the property of the Willcox family.
Summary This collection consists of a variety of legal documents
associated with the Flowerdew Hundred property and its owners. There
are also several letters and a journal of John Poythress Willcox
concerning a visit to the Northeastern United States in 1827.
Finding Aid Inventory available in repository: item level control.
Cite As Flowerdew Hundred Collection, Accession 28758, Personal papers
collection, The Library of Virginia. Archives Branch, Richmond, Virginia
23219.

----------------------

Accession No 24288
Title Claiborne family Bible record, 1621-1954.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 24288.
Size 32 leaves.
Summary Area covered is Dinwiddie County, Virginia. Bible printed in
1859. Other surnames mentioned: Baskerville, Blunt, Butler, Clayton,
Coleman, Dillon, Doyle, Duke, Early, Edmunds, Epps, Ferguson, Fern, Fox,
Fraser, Hardaway, Harper, Hicks, Hinton, Jones, King, Lewis, Lipscomb,
Lloyd, Powell, Poythress, Ravenscroft, Rives, Robertson, Robinson,
Russell, Simms, Spain, Taylor, Thweatt, Topp, Tucker, Walker, and
Zehmer.

----------------

Accession No Miscellaneous reel 701
Title Maitland-Harrison-Pollock family Bible record, 1645-1891
[microform].
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 22837.
Size 10 leaves.
Size microfilm.
Summary Areas covered are Prince George and Surry counties, Petersburg
and Norfolk City, Virginia; North Carolina; and Scotland. Bible printed
in 1830. Other surnames mentioned: Atkinson, Avery, Baird, Bassett,
Batte, Beach(?), Bland, Bray, Brown, Burwell, Carter, Claiborne, Cocke,
Collier, Coupland, Cullen, Devereux, Dunlop, Edwards, Ellison, Eppes,
Gilliam, Goode, Henry, Johnson, Lee, Lenox, Mayo, McKenzie, Minge,
Morrison, Murray, Newton, Osborne, Pierpont, Polk, Poythress, Randolph,
Richardson, Ruffin, Runciman, Sanderson, Scolley, Singleton, Skipwith,
Smart, Stith, Swan, Van Cortlandt, and Williams.

-----------------------

Accession No 34362
Title Robertson family Bible record, 1739-1765.
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 34362.
Size 1 leaf.
Summary Record is a typed transcript. Other surnames mentioned:
Blaikley, Poindexter, and Poythress.

--------------------

Accession No Miscellaneous reel 445
Title Atkinson family Bible record, 1753-1958 [microform].
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 28126.
Size 7 leaves.
Summary Areas covered are Lunenburg County (Virginia); and Texas.
Bible printed in 1835. Other surnames mentioned: Jones, Kemper, Mayo,
Page, Personby (?), Poythress, and Zander.

---------------------

Accession No Miscellaneous reel 445
Title Bland family Bible record, 1630-1921 [microform].
Record Ser. Bible records collection; 28126.
Location reel 445.
Size 2 leaves.
Summary The record is a notarized typed transcript. Areas covered are
Dinwiddie County, and Williamsburg (Virginia). Other surnames mentioned:
Bragg, Jones, Meacham, Poythress, Pryor, Randolph, and Yates.

--------------------

Accession No 35260
Author Batte, R. Bolling (Robert Bolling), 1906-1996.
Title Papers, 1918-1992.
Record Ser. Personal papers collection; 35260.
Size 26.9 cu. ft.
Background Born in Norfolk, Virginia on 13 August 1906. Graduated from
Virginia Military Institute in 1928. Engineer, C & P Telephone Co.
Earned an LL.B. degree from Virginia College of Law. Resident of
Richmond, Virginia. Died in Petersburg, Virginia on 3 June 1996. Buried
in Elmwood Cemetery, Norfolk, Virginia.
Summary Genealogical research files of Robert Bolling Batte, including
family research files, subject files and county research notes,
extensive information on the Batte, Brodnax, Ingram, Epes/Eppes and
Jones families, and card files. Also contained in the Collection is
information which was compiled by Augusta B. Fothergill (Augusta
Bridgland Middleton Fothergill, 1876-1965) and Alice L. Ingram (Alice
Littlepage Ingram, 1891-1982). Every effort was made during processing
of the collection to maintain the original order of the materials. In
some cases, information amassed by all three individuals can be found in
the same folder.
Summary The family research files contain genealogical notes
abstracted form court records, including deed books, order books, will
books and marriage records. There is a substanial amount of information
on the Blow, Bolling, Drummond, Harrison, Jones, Lee, Lewis, Moseley,
Poythress, Smith and Willis families. Families researched are from all
over Virginia, but there is a particular emphasis on those from Amelia,
Brunswick, Dinwiddie, Lunenburg, Nottoway, Prince George and Sussex
Counties. The majority of this group of records were compiled by
Augusta B. Fothergill.
Summary The subject files and county research notes also include
abstracts from court records, as well as correspondence, clippings,
tombstone inscriptions, pedigree charts and published works. This group
of records is largely the work of R. Bolling Batte.
Summary The Batte files contain information on the descendants of
Captain John Batte who came to Virginia from Oakwell Hall, Yorkshire,
England in 1643. Included is correspondence, abstracts, source material
received from other individuals, as well as Various forms of a
manuscript on the Batte family, which R. Bolling Batte had intended to
complete and publish.
Summary The Brodnax/Ingram files were compiled by Alice Littlepage
Ingram and contain correspondence, source material from other
individuals, copies of court records, and information on Brodnax family
homes.
Summary The Epes/Eppes files document R. Bolling Batte's interest in
the ancestors of Francis Epes I. They include court record copies and
abstracts, Bible records, correspondence, trial charts, clippings,
source notes from other individuals, and other information concerning
Batte's membership in the Epes Society.
Summary The Jones files contain information compiled by Augusta B.
Fothergill in the course of researching her book PETER JONES AND RICHARD
JONES GENEALOGIES, published in 1924. They include court record
abstracts, Bible records, correspondence, notes from other individuals
and manuscript drafts.
Summary The alphabetical card files contain more than thirty thousand
cards, each representing an individual. Each card gives as much
information on the subject as was known when they were compiled,
including date and place of birth, full names of parents, date and place
of marriage(s), name of spouse, notation of education, public offices
held, profession, military service, date and place of death, and place
of burial. Codes are used on the right end of each line to indicate
sources. On the backs of the cards appear extracts from pertinent
documents, tombstone inscriptions, obituary notices and a listing of the
subject's children.
Summary At the end of the card files is an index to the sources which
were used in their compilation. The canary yellow cards give the author
of the source and are filed alphabetically. The cherry cards give the
subject of the source and are also filed alphabetically. Also included
are miscellaneous index cards to sources, counties, cities, family
Bibles, cemetery records, census lists, marriage records, newspapers,
other published sources, parish registers and wills which were used in
the compilation of the card files. Finally, there is a title/subject
card index covering articles appearing in CIVIL WAR TIMES ILLUSTRATED.
Finding Aid Inventory-aavailable in repository Folder level control.
Cite As R. Bolling Batte Papers, 1918-1992. Accession 35260, Personal
papers collection, The Library of Virginia, Richmond, Va. 23219.
Related Augusta B. Fothergill Papers, 1925-1955 (Accession 35204).
---------------------------------------------------------
Enjoy!

Paul Murauskas
g3socsgm@hq.c5.army.mil

"Writing from Heidelberg, Germany"		07/09/1997 7:01:55
List Management RequestAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I have a couple of requests as your list manager. You all know that we're
pretty easy going on this list. All for the general welfare .

1. Attachments. Please do not send attachments to the list. Attachments
might work for some, but they can cause real problems for others.
Moreover, RootsWeb really isn't designed to manage attachments. If you
want to send attachment files please send directly to the interested
parties.

2. Threads. Many of us have our email readers configured to include the
original message text in our replies. This can cause lots of unnecessary
duplication -- especially when the original message was a lengthy post.
So, please try to edit out anything that isn't relevant to your response
before posting back to the list. Often it makes sense to keep some part of
an original question/statement in posting a response. This practice makes
perfect sense and isn't a problem. All of you likely know what I'm talking
about. It only takes a minute or two to delete the redundant or
unnecessary parts of the thread. Fair enough? It really will help
everyone. The other option is to simply change your email configuration so
that the original message isn't included automatically in your replies.

Okay, now I can get back to the fun stuff .
Best,
Al Tims		07/09/1997 8:40:09
Lou's points to ponderJean SpilleAnother good article on Indian Traders and the allied families is
"JAMES LOGAN COLBERT OF THE CHICKASAWS: THE
MAN AND THE MYTH", by Richard Colbert, North Carolina Genealogical
Society Journal, May 94., P.82. Here is an exerpt from that article.

"The Indian traders who lived along the Roanoke River in North
Carolina
during the 1700's were from all walks of life. Most were descendents
of
Indian traders themselves. Others chose the life of a "woodsman" the
moment they set foot on American soil. Thee woodsmen came from
Scotland, Ireland, England, and the European countries. Others
migrated
to America via Barbados and the West Indies. Still others came from
Africa. Some of the most famous Indian trading families were of
African
descent. During the early, mid, ad late 1600's, Afican and West
Indian
slaves were sent to Virginia and bought by "white" Indian traders such
as Charles Harmar, Abraham Wood, Benjamin Harrison, and others. Over
the years these slaves learned the "skin trade" and then gradually,
one
by one, obtained their freedom. As "Free Men of Color" they continued
to support themselves and their families as Indian traders. In the
1700's several of these families migrated to North Carolina.
In the March, 1993, issue ofthe National Genealogical society
Quarterly, Dr. Virginia De Marce's article on the "Origins of
Tri-racial
Isolate Settlements" made two important points. The first was that "
genealogicial research can make a major contributio toward identifying
the origins of 'mysterious' tri-racial isolate groups found in the
Upper
South>" Her second point was that:

Many isolate groups still resist the idea of African-American
ancestry.
Yet, if the genealgy of these families is to be be studied with any
hope
of success, descendants who identify themselves with Indians must be
willing to consider frankly the possiblity of both white and
African-American components. Similarly, families whose current social
definition is white will have to consider the possiblity of Indian and
African-American components. To do otherwise is simply to wear
blinders"

on page 94 of the same article, the author writes:
"Further research revealed that the Turbevilles, Colsons, and Calverts
worked for Major Robert Mumford of Brunswick County, Virginia, and
with
Thomas Whitmel. MAJOR Mumford was a large land owner speculator and
the
descendent of an Indian Trading family. The Mumfords had traded
alongside men like Abraham Wood, Benjamin Harrison, Robert Bolling,
William Byrd I, Peter Poythress and Robert Hicks since the late
1600's."
42

This is talking about Halifax County North Carolina and a footnote to
the latter is
42 Traders who later owned land in the county included Edward Mumford,
Robert Hicks, Benjamin Harrison, Robert Bolling, Peter Poythress and
Richard Kennon. Gay Neale, Ed. Brunswick County, Virginia,
1720-1975
(Richmond: Whittet & Sheperson, 1975)		07/09/1997 9:08:46
Re: Spotswood & Company - Additional ResourcesAl: Re W&M contact: she graduated in May and is long gone.

Is the inter-library loan a big deal?....or you want me to put it on my
master search list?

MP

07/09/1997 9:31:35
ReSLC FHCCharles NealHelene,

It is my dream to live there, mainly for the proximity to the FHC. I
unashamedly got my husband & our 2 grown daughters hooked on skiing there
(I of course don't ski :-)) two winters ago & we met the 2 of them back
there this year for another family vacation/ski/research trip. I will keep
your proximity AND your Pockrus/et all folks in mind, yet I will not
inundate you with requests. Thanks so much -

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/9/97		07/09/1997 10:04:40
Re: Some points to ponder (I hope)Hey, Helene....just remember...when you look at Lou's stuff you are looking
at the top of the mountain. Its all downhill to get to everybody else. (Cool
it, Lou, and don't let that go to your head, I just wanted to help the lady).

Maynard

07/09/1997 10:12:10
Fort ChristiannaAt: http://www.pride.net.com/native_indians/saponi.html

is "A Brief History of the Occaneechi Band of the Saponi Nation" which deals
to some degree with the fort. The site is compromised only because its in
part a sales pitch and in part history. "The Chief" is collecting money to
rebuild the village.

Maynard

07/09/1997 11:22:02
Census on CD-ROMCraig, I started out few years ago just checking two Georgia counties for
P's....now those guys are metastasizing on me. Even in late 1700s, early
1800s they are showing up all over Georgia.

I guess I need to rethink my census approach to include all counties....and
just my luck to be working the state with the most counties in U. S., count
'em....159 of those rascals.

Anyway, it sure would be easier to do at home by giving some guy bucks for 1
or 2 CD-ROMs which could easily cover the whole state for all the census
years. However, the problem seems to be when I look on net the catalogs from
all those guys selling CD-ROMS they want to slice the watermelon the other
way; i. e. they want to give you one census, multiple states instead of one
state, multiple censuses.

You got any solution for this better than trudging back down to East Point,
Ga. to the corner of Ghetto and Ghetto and going blind on microfilm?

Thanks,

Maynard		07/10/1997 1:26:53
Speed - Poythress - Cocke - EppesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

This is mostly for Judy Speed Scurggs, but I suspect many of us will have
an interest in discovering more about this collection. So far, the only
place I've found with this (microfilm ?) holding is the University of
Virginia library. Might be worth checking to see if it can be obtained via
library loan. I'm particularly interested in the mention of correspondence
with Tabitha Eppes and Tabitha Cocke Adams. Anyone have a Tabitha Eppes
(1756 - ?)? Maybe Judy can fill us in on the Callaway, Fry, Griffin &
Speed family connections.

Best,
Al Tims

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

ACCESSION: 32135392
AUTHOR: Adams, Gilmer Speed, 1854-, collector.
TITLE: Papers collected by Gilmer Speed Adams
YEAR: 1651 1879
PUB TYPE: Archive/Manuscript Control
FORMAT: 30 items.
NOTES: Chiefly genealogical information on the Adams family of New Kent

Co., Va., descendants of Ebenezer Adams and Tabitha Cocke Adams;

on the Innes family of Harry Innes and Elizabeth Callaway Innes
and also on the related Callaway, Fry, Griffin, and Speed
families.
Correspondents include Tabitha Eppes, Innes Callaway Adams,
Catherine Elizabeth Innes Adams, and Joshua Fry who describes a
trip to Kentucky in 1789.
Other items included in the collection are wills, surveys, land
grants, and business contracts.
Also included in the collection is a printed version of the Fry-

Jefferson map (1787), and notes on Huguenot emigration to
Virginia from the Virginia Historical Collection, chiefly
genealogical. It also includes typed copy of a letter written
June 24, 1797, from Thomas Jefferson to Edward Rutledge
discussing foreign relations with Great Britain and France.
SUBJECT: Adams family.
Adams, Ebenezer, -- 1765-1841.
Adams, Tabitha Cocke.
Innes family.
Innes, Harry, -- 1752-1816.
Innes, Elizabeth Callaway, -- 1756-1790.
Callaway family.
Frye family.
Griffin family.
Speed family.
Fry-Jefferson map of Virginia and Maryland.
Huguenots -- United States.
United States -- Foreign relations -- Great Britain.
Great Britain -- Foreign relations -- United States.
United States -- Foreign relations -- France.
France -- Foreign relations -- United States.
Virginia -- Genealogy.
Kentucky -- Genealogy.
OTHER: Eppes, Tabitha, 1756-, correspondent.
Adams, Innes Callaway, 1807-1862, correspondent.
Adams, Catherine Elizabeth Innes, 1779-, correspondent.
Fry, Joshua, 1700 (ca.)-1754, correspondent.
Jefferson, Thomas, 1743-1826, correspondent.
Rutledge, Edward, 1749-1800, correspondent.		07/10/1997 1:40:16
Re: Speed - Poythress - Cocke - EppesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'll respond to my own post . The Poythress reference in the subject
line is a shameless bit of false advertising.

Re: Tabitha Eppes. Found her in Stanard's article on the Eppes family in
the Genealogies of Virginia Families. Stanard lists her as the daughter of
Richard and Martha (Bolling) Eppes of Chesterfield. Stanard states that
her father, Richard Eppes, was a member of the House of Burgesses
representing Chesterfield circa 1752 - 1765. Stanard lists no further
information concerning Tabitha.

Best,
Al Tims		07/10/1997 3:46:07
Another good referenceJames L. PooleWhile we're digressing from focused genealogy to broader matters, I thought
I'd pass to y'all a general historical reference that I found most
interesting. It's Francis Earle Lutz's "The Prince George-Hopewell Story."
It's a big book, but only about the first couple of chapters (more
specifically, I recommend pages 25-70) are really relevant to the
discussion. It should be available in any relatively well-stocked
genealogy library (or perhaps just the history section of any larger
library).

You will find in these sections a historical perspective of the formation
of Prince George County, with many mentions of Poythress, Epes, Hardyman,
Byrd, Harrison, Wynne, etc. (i.e., many of the names that have been tossed
around in the last week or two), along with contextual discussions and
histories of Flowerdew Hundred, Martin's Brandon, etc. A section I find
fascinating is that on the establishment of Merchant's Hope Church in 1657,
and which is claimed to be the oldest English-built church in America that
is still in existence. This was undoubtedly the same church that the very
earliest Poythress family attended, judging by its proximity to where we
know the Poythress family lived. (Isn't that a fascinating name for a
church -- "Merchant's Hope"?) I would not be at all surprised that many of
our earliest Poythress and allied families were not only members, but were
instrumental in its establishment, and were the earliest church elders.

Lou		07/10/1997 5:21:42
Fwd: Colonial VA Plantation NamesThought this might be of help to some of you.

Caroline
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: SeaNymph@netunlimited.net (Kelli Allison)
Sender: va-roots@leo.vsla.edu
Reply-to: SeaNymph@netunlimited.net
To: va-roots@leo.vsla.edu (Multiple recipients of list)
Date: 97-07-10 17:51:11 EDT

I'm such a book nut sometimes I buy several books while I'm out looking at
historical sights and when I get home one will get shelved before I get it
read!

Such a book is: 'The First Seventeen Years: Virginia 1607-1624 by Charles
E. Hatch, Jr...I bought this book when I went to Colonial Williamsburg in
1988.

Anyhow...as to why I'm boring y'all with these details...

Someone recently posted a name she was trying to find - not found in any
gazeteer that anyone has yet found - and I think it was the name of a
colonial VA plantation.

So in case others are trying to find such places I'm going to list the
names of plantations from this book [plus a few other place names that may
not be easily found elsewhere]...if anyone wants more info on a specific
plantation/place, let me know:
Pasbehegh Terr. - 1617
Argall Town - 1617
Smith's [Southampton] Hundred 1617
Tanks Weyanoke - c1618
Swinhows - <1622
Westover c1619
Berkeley Town and Hundred 1619
Causey's Care [or Cleare] c1620
West and Shirley Hundred c1613
Upper Hundred-'Curls' c1613
Diggs His Hundred c1613
Arrahatock <1619
The College Lands c1619
The Falls 1609
Falling Creek c1619
Sheffield's Plantation <1622
Proctor's Plantation <1622
Coxendale c1611
Bermuda Hundred 1613
Rochdale Hundred 1613
Bermuda City 1613
Piercey's Plantation c1620
Jordan's Journey c1619
Woodleefe's Plantation c1619
Chaplain's Choice c1623
Truelove's Plantation c1621
Powle-brooke or Merchant's Hope 1619
Maycock's Plantation c1618
Flowerdieu Hundred-Piercey's Hundred c1618
Captaine Spilmans Divident <1622
Ward's Plantation c1619
Martin's Brandon c1617
Paces-Paines 1620
Burrow's Mount c1624
Treasurer's Plantation [George Sandys] c1621
Hugh Crowder's Pl. c1622
Edward Blaney's Pl. c162
Capt. Roger Smith's Pl. c1622
Capt. Samuel Mathews' Pl. c1622
Hog Island 1609
Lawne's Pl. 1619
Warrascyack [Bennett's Pl.] 1621
Basse's Choyce 1622
Nansemond 1609
Elizabeth City [Kecoughtan] 1610
Blunt Point c1621
Mulberry Island c1617
Archer's Hope c1619

I got tired of spelling plantation out so Pl. = Plantation.

Hope this helps someone!
Kelli		07/10/1997 5:33:34
Techniques and So ForthLyn P BairdAl, first again let me express my gratitude for the excellent care of the
list and web site which you provide. Here are some comments and some
questions mainly regarding technique which I hope you will not mind
addressing:

1) I seem to be back on the list now. Is everything OK now with my Juno
address? Frankly, I cant tell for sure how long I was out or what I
missed.

2) Regarding Ft. Christianna, if you should ever wish to place it on the
map, I can help. I have been to the site many times. It was excavated
in the late 70s as I recall.

3) Regarding the Hicks Mill, I am also aware of its location (or at least
that of one Hicks Mill), though I have never been to the site. I believe
that what we now refer to as Hicks Creek was sometimes referenced as
Great Creek. Today we reference another creek as Great Creek. Hicks
Creek enters Meherrin from the south and (modern) Great Creek enters from
the north.

4) Regarding your posession of Mecklenburg deed books covering 1765-1786,
in what form are they and how and at what cost did you obtain them? What
other original sources can be obtained similarly?

5) You have referred to deed pool data. What is this, where is it, and
how would others of us tap into it?

6) As my questions indicate, I am very inexperienced at use of the
internet for family research. Would you (and/or perhaps Paul M.) be up
to the challenging of posting for us light-weights a bit of a tutorial on
this topic?

7) Thank you for your recent republish of some of the Poythress
references in Brunswick DB14. For my own use I have searched all
Poythress references in the Carol Morrison transcription of DB14. I will
be sending this to you separately. If you think this would be of
interest, and if Carol Morrison would not object, you can place it on the
web site and/or post it to the list.

8) Since all of the references to Thomas POYTHRESS in DB14 are as
witness, I am curious to know what one might infer about the
relationships between witnesses and grantors and grantees. Who was
typically called upon to witness? Neighbors? Friends? Strangers off
the street on court day?

More than enough for now. Thanks for any attention you can spare this.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		07/10/1997 5:55:16
Researching Prince George and DinwiddieLyn P BairdPoythress List

All, this is a request for general advice on how to research the
Poythress family in Prince George and Dinwiddie Counties, Virginia,
giving the sad state of court records in these counties. Maynard and
others have posted references from Prince George court records. How are
such obtained? Are there reconstructions of the records from secondary
sources? Does one go to the county seats? To Richmond? Or to the web,
instead? Then, assuming there are records to be researched, what indices
exist and which are reliable and which are not. Lots of questions.
Thanks, anyone, for the help.

Thanks,
Lyn
llbaird@juno.com

07/10/1997 5:55:16
SOURCES: Southside VA Plus -- Wynne, Randolph, GilliamAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Paul's note on the ante-bellem colonial papers prompted me to do a larger
search for primary sources. I was able to identify several hundred
collections (amazing)! I was also able to identify at least some of the
libraries with various portions of the collections. It may be that a
library in your area has one or more of the following, or may be able to
obtain them via a library loan. All of the items below are of possible
value to us.

Included below are: Southside VA Families, Wynne papers, Randolph papers;
Gilliam family papers. I have indicated many of the libraries where each
can be found. I have no west coast libraries listed, but would be
surprised if one or more didn't hold some of these.

Enjoy,

Al Tims

ACCESSION: 24506835
TITLE: Southside Virginia family papers (Reid papers), 1748-1918,
Bedford, Campbell, Charlotte, Franklin, Pittsylvania, Halifax,
and Mecklenburg counties, Virginia, accession number 550
PLACE: Frederick, Md. :
PUBLISHER: University Publications of America,
YEAR: 1986
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: On 6 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.
SERIES: Records of ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution
through the Civil War. Series E, Selections from the University
of Virginia Library ; pt. 3, reels 1-6
NOTES: Accompanied by a printed reel guide.
Title from reel guide.
SUBJECT: Plantation life -- Virginia -- History -- 19th century --
Sources.
Virginia -- History -- 1775-1865 -- Sources.
OTHER: University of Virginia. Library. Manuscripts Dept.

LOCATIONS: U OF KENTUCKY (Maynard !!), U OF MINNESOTA (humm -- like a
block away from my office), NEWBERRY LIBRARY - CHICAGO, MIDDLE TENN STATE,
U OF VA, WILLIAM & MARY)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
ACCESSION: 24496633
TITLE: Randolph family papers, 1790-1864, Albemarle County, Virginia,
accession number 8937b
PLACE: Frederick, Md. :
PUBLISHER: University Publications of America,
YEAR: 1986
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: On 3 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.
SERIES: Records of ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution
through the Civil War. Series E, Selections from the University
of Virginia Library ; pt. 2, reels 24-26
NOTES: Accompanied by a printed reel guide.
Title from reel guide.
Collection consists mainly of letters addressed to Thomas
Jefferson Randolph (1792-1875) and his father-in-law, Wilson
Cary
Nicholas.
SUBJECT: Randolph family -- Archives.
Randolph, Thomas Jefferson, -- 1792-1875 -- Correspondence.
Nicholas, Wilson Cary -- Correspondence.
Plantation life -- Virginia -- History -- 19th century --
Sources.
Virginia -- History -- 1775-1865 -- Sources.
OTHER: University of Virginia. Library. Manuscripts Dept.

LOCATIONS: U OF KY, AUBURN, U OF MINN, NEWBERRY, LSU, UNC - CHAPEL HILL,
MIDDLE TENN STATE, U VA, WILLIAM & MARY, U OF GA.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
ACCESSION: 24526496
AUTHOR: Wynne, A. R.
TITLE: A.R. Wynne papers, 1818-1866, Sumner County, Tennessee
PLACE: Frederick, Md. :
PUBLISHER: University Publications of America,
YEAR: 1986
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: On 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm.
SERIES: Records of ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution
through the Civil War. Series F, Selections from the Manuscript
Department, Duke University Library ; pt. 1, The Deep South,
reel
23
NOTES: Accompanied by a printed reel guide.
Title from reel guide.
"Papers document the sales and purchase of merchandise, land,
and
slaves"--Reel guide.
SUBJECT: Wynne, A. R. -- Archives.
Plantation life -- Tennessee -- History -- 19th century --
Sources.
Tennessee -- History -- Sources.
OTHER: Duke University. Library. Manuscript Dept.

Locations: AUBURN U, U OF GA, NEWBERRY LIBRARY- CHICAGO, CINCINNATI PUBLIC
LIBRARY, U OF PENN, OHIO STATE, U TEXAS - AUSTIN, U OF VA, WILLIAM & MARY.

_____________________________________________________________

ACCESSION: 24496414
TITLE: Gilliam family papers, 1794-1857, Dinwiddie and Chesterfield
counties, Virginia, accession number 3164
PLACE: Frederick, Md. :
PUBLISHER: University Publications of America,
YEAR: 1986
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: On 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm.
SERIES: Records of ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution
through the Civil War. Series E, Selections from the University
of Virginia Library ; pt. 2, reel 21
NOTES: Accompanied by a printed reel guide.
Title from reel guide.
SUBJECT: Gilliam family -- Archives.
Plantation life -- Virginia -- History -- 19th century --
Sources.
Virginia -- History -- 1775-1865 -- Sources.
OTHER: University of Virginia. Library. Manuscripts Dept.

ACCESSION: 24496380
TITLE: Gilliam family papers, 1802-1865, Dinwiddie, Chesterfield,
Brunswick, Surry, and Sussex counties, Virginia :
also Alabama, accession number 2608
PLACE: Frederick, Md. :
PUBLISHER: University Publications of America,
YEAR: 1986
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: On 3 microfilm reels ; 35 mm.
SERIES: Records of ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution
through the Civil War. Series E, Selections from the University
of Virginia Library ; pt. 2, reels 19-21
NOTES: Accompanied by a printed reel guide.
Title from reel guide.
SUBJECT: Gilliam family -- Archives.
Plantation life -- Virginia -- History -- 19th century --
Sources.
Plantation life -- Alabama -- History -- 19th century --
Sources.
Virginia -- History -- 1775-1865 -- Sources.
Alabama -- History -- Sources.
OTHER: University of Virginia. Library. Manuscripts Dept.

LOCATIONS; U OF KY, U OF MINN, U OF GEORGIA, U OF DELAWARE, NEWBERRY, LST,
U OF CINCINNATI, MIDDLE TENN STATE, U TEXAS-AUSTIN, U VA, W ILLIAM & MARY		07/10/1997 6:48:20
ANTE-BELLUMAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Yes -- it is Ante-Bellum NOT Ante-Bellem. Sorry, didn't proofread very
well did I?

Best,
Al Tims

I have a couple of additional items to provide for your notes:

ACCESSION: 26874324
AUTHOR: Schipper, Martin Paul.
TITLE: A guide to the microfilm edition of Records of ante-bellum
southern plantations from the Revolution to the Civil War :
series J, selections from the Southern Historical Collection,
Manuscripts Department, Library of the University of North
Carolina at Chapel Hill /
PLACE: Bethesda, MD :
PUBLISHER: University Publications of America,
YEAR: 1991
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: vii, 105 p. ; 28 cm.
SERIES: [A guide to the microfilm edition of Records of ante-bellum
southern plantations from the Revolution to the Civil War ; Ser.

J]
NOTES: --Pt. 6. Mississippi and Arkansas
SUBJECT: Plantation life -- Mississippi -- History -- Sources.
Plantations -- Mississippi -- Records and correspondence.
Mississippi -- History -- Sources.
OTHER: Stampp, Kenneth M. (Kenneth Milton).
Records of ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution
through the Civil War.
Ante-bellum southern plantations from the Revolution through the

Civil War.

2. Nottoway Indians -- (Last night I typed this Nottaway!! I need to slow
down a little ).

ACCESSION: 36581187
AUTHOR: Briggs, Martha Wren.
TITLE: Circle and square tracts of the Nottoway Indians /
PLACE: Sedley, Va. :
PUBLISHER: Dory Press,
YEAR: 1995
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 13 p. ; 28 cm.
NOTES: Cover title.
Includes bibliographical references.
ISBN: 0963324012
SUBJECT: Nottaway Indians -- Land tenure.
Indian reservations -- Virginia -- Southampton County.
Land tenure -- Virginia -- Southampton County.
OTHER: Pittman, April Cary.

ACCESSION: 5005022
AUTHOR: Smith, Gerald P.
TITLE: Protohistoric sociopolitical oranization of the Nottoway in the
Chesapeake Bay-Carolina Sounds region /
YEAR: 1979 1971
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: xvi, 399, [3] leves : ill., maps.
NOTES: Vita.
Photocopy of typescript. Ann Arbor, Mich. : University
Microfilms
International, 1979. -- 21 cm.
Thesis--University of Missouri, Columbia.
Bibliography: leaves 262-268.
SUBJECT: Indians of North America -- Virginia -- Antiquities
Excavations (Archaeology) -- Virginia.

ACCESSION: 29254206
AUTHOR: Rountree, Helen C., 1944-
TITLE: The termination and dispersal of the Nottoway Indians of
Virginia.
PLACE: [S.l. :
PUBLISHER: s.n.],
YEAR: 1979
PUB TYPE: Book
FORMAT: 55 p. ; 28 cm.
NOTES: Photocopy of typescript.		07/10/1997 7:01:52
List Management RequestCharles NealAl,

Thanks

Since I haven't been to THE site recently, I haven't seen any posting such
as Al's Handy Guide to Copyrights. Were you planning on mentioning that
type of info on the List (I hope), or just as a disclaimer statement on the
website? Or maybe you are just still formulating the correct tone &
verbage?
Ay,
BPN

07/10/1997 7:21:39
Records of Ante-Bellum Southern PlantationsMURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)I believe the information that can be found at the University
Publications of America is worth looking at. Of course no one that I
know can afford the microfilm with the actual documents- the cheapest
reel of film is $1800. Southside Virginia papers are over $6500.

( If you already know about this site, then do not continue reading and
delete this message.)

This is the URL for UPA: http://www.upapubs.com/

-------------------------
Here is a small sampling of what the papers contain. As shown, they are
from a collection from the Virginia Historical Society, so some of these
papers have to be available, loose and not entwined into a $6500 bundle
of film; I have Bolded some of the subjects that have been shown to be
of interest to some of the POYTHRESS members.

Records of Ante-Bellum Southern Plantations
From the Revolution Through the Civil War
Series M: Selections from the Virginia Historical Society
Part 2: Virginia's Northern Neck; also Maryland

Section 15, Various Persons, Materials concerning the Boundary between
Virginia and North Carolina, 1707

This section consists of eight items, materials, 1707, of various
persons concerning the boundary between Virginia and North Carolina.
Items include a letter, 1707, of Francis Foster, William Glover, Edward
Moseley, and Samuel Swann (while serving on the Council of North
Carolina) to the Council of Virginia; a commission, 1707, of Arthur
Allen, John Hardyman, Benjamin Harrison, Francis Mallory, John
Poythress, and Joshua Wynne (signed by Edmund Jenings and bears seals of
John Hardyman, Benjamin Harrison, Francis Mallory, and the colony of
Virginia) to receive affidavits in Isle of Wight, Nansemond, Prince
George, and Surry counties, Virginia; and affidavits (copies), 1707, of
Robert Bolling, Benjamin Harrison, James Thweatt, and Thomas Wynne.

Section 16, Various Persons, Affidavits concerning the Boundary between
Virginia and North Carolina, 1710-1711

This section consists of ten items, affidavits, 1710-1711, concerning
the boundary between Virginia and North Carolina. Included are
affidavits (copies witnessed by Edward Moseley) of William Bonner,
George Bullock, William Duckenfield, James Farlee, Lawrence Mague,
Richard Sanderson, Edward Smithwick, and Francis Toms; affidavits
(copies) of Robert Lawrence and Henry Plumpton; and affidavits
(witnessed by Nathaniel Harrison and Philip Ludwell II) of Betty
(Indian), Henry Briggs, Great Peter (Indian), Thomas Green (Indian),
Nicholas Major (Indian), Mary (Indian), Jenny Pearce (Indian), and the
Meherrin and Nottoway Indians.

Section 17, Ludwell, Philip (1672-1727), Letter, Undated

This section consists of one item, a letter, undated, of Philip Ludwell
II to an unidentified addressee. The letter concerns Alexander
Spotswood.

Section 18, Bassett, William (1671-1723), Letter, 1713

This section consists of one item, a letter, 22 September 1713, of
William Bassett, Eltham, New Kent County, Virginia, to Philip Ludwell
II, London, England. The letter concerns Queen Anne, Nathaniel
Blakiston, Doctor William Cocke, Lucy (Ludwell) Grymes, Edmund Jenings,
Hannah (Ludwell) Lee, Hannah (Harrison) Ludwell, the Earl of Orkney,
Micajah Perry, and Alexander Spotswood (while serving as governor of
Virginia); corn; tobacco; and the Council of Virginia.

Section 61, Ludwell, Philip (1672-1727), Animadversions, 1719

This section consists of one item, 1719, animadversions on a paper
entitled "Virginia Addresses" printed in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The
animadversions concern Edward Teach (i.e., Blackbeard); Fort Christanna,
Brunswick County, and Germanna, Spotsylvania County, Virginia; and
addresses by the grand jury of Virginia to the governor (i.e., Alexander
Spotswood) and the King of Great Britain (i.e., George I) and by the
Virginia House of Burgesses to King George I.

Section 62, Ludwell, Philip (1672-1727), Animadversions, 1719

This section consists of one item, 1719, animadversions on a paper
entitled "Virginia Addresses" printed in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The
animadversions concern Edward Teach (i.e., Blackbeard); Fort Christanna,
Brunswick County, and Germanna, Spotsylvania County, Virginia; addresses
by the grand jury of Virginia to the governor (i.e., Alexander
Spotswood) and the King of Great Britain (i.e., George I) and by the
Virginia House of Burgesses to King George I; and the Council of
Virginia.

Section 63, Lane, Thomas (d. 1710), Letter, 1704

This section consists of one item, a letter, 19 August 1704, of Thomas
Lane, London, England, Micajah Perry, and Richard Perry to Philip
Ludwell II, Green Spring, James City County, Virginia. The letter
concerns Joseph Blagdon, Richard Browne, John Evans, and John King; and
the ships Falmouth, Fowey, Gloucester, Medway, Moderate, Rainbow, and
Revenge.

Section 66, Ludwell, Philip (1672-1727), Letter, 1711

This section consists of one item, a letter, 10 July 1711, of Philip
Ludwell II, Williamsburg, Virginia, to John Lawson and Edward Moseley.
The letter concerns Nathaniel Harrison, Edward Hyde (while serving as
governor of North Carolina), and Alexander Spotswood (while serving as
governor of Virginia); the rebellion of Thomas Cary; and the boundary
between Virginia and North Carolina.

Section 69, Perry, Micajah (d. 1721), Letter, 1716

This section consists of one item, a letter, 14 March 1716, of Micajah
Perry and Richard Perry, London, England, to Philip Ludwell II, Green
Spring, James City County, Virginia. The letter concerns William
Blathwayt (while serving as auditor general of the colonies), Stephen
Fouace, John Grymes, Sir Edward Northey (while serving as attorney
general of Great Britain), and Alexander Spotswood (while serving as
governor of Virginia); Spotswood's removal of Ludwell as deputy auditor
general of Virginia; and the ship Page.

Section 76, Spotswood, Alexander, Materials, 1710-1720

This section consists of twenty-two items, materials, 1710-1720,
concerning Alexander Spotswood (while serving as governor of Virginia).
Items include correspondence (copies), 1710-1718, with William Blathwayt
(while serving as auditor general of the colonies), Henry Compton (while
Bishop of London and concerning William Dun, Tanaquil LeFevre, and John
Skaife), Charles Eden (while serving as governor of North Carolina and
concerning Ellis Brand, [first name unknown] Bray, William Howard,
Edward Teach [i.e., Blackbeard], [first name unknown] Williams, and
pirates), and the Board of Trade (concerning the Virginia Court of Oyer
and Terminer); "Observations upon the Mismanagement of the King's
Revenue of Virginia with the Lieutenant Govern[o]rs charge against the
Deputy Audit[o]r" (copy), 1716 (concerning Philip Ludwell II and
quitrents); an order, 1716, of Alexander Spotswood to Philip Ludwell II
(concerning William Blathwayt [while serving as auditor general of the
colonies] and Peter Beverley's appointment as deputy auditor of
Virginia); an address (copy), 1715, of Alexander Spotswood to the
Virginia House of Burgesses (concerning the Nottoway Indians; and bears
address, 1715, of the House of Burgesses to Spotswood [concerning Thomas
Butts and Richard Littlepage]); an address (copy), 1715, of Alexander
Spotswood to the House of Burgesses (concerning the Yamassee War; and
bears address, 1715, of the Virginia Council of the House of Burgesses
[concerning Elizabeth (Gibbes) Fenwick and Sarah (Patey) Fenwick];
extracts [copy], 1715, from the journal of the House of Burgesses; an
address [copy], 1715, of the House of Burgesses to the Council
[concerning the privileges of the Burgesses]; a petition [copy], 1715,
of the House of Burgesses to Spotswood [concerning the location of the
courthouse of James City County, Virginia]; an address [copy], 1715, of
Alexander Spotswood to the House of Burgesses [concerning taxation];
minutes [copy], 1715, of the Committee of Propositions and Grievances of
the House of Burgesses [concerning Thomas Butt and Richard Littlepage;
the Yamassee War; election of Burgesses in Warwick County, Virginia;
justices of the peace in New Kent County, Virginia; and taxation];
resolutions [copy], 1715, of the House of Burgesses [concerning duties
on liquor and slaves]; an address [copy], 1715, of Spotswood to the
House of Burgesses [concerning the courthouse of James City County,
Virginia]; an address [copy], 1715, of the Council to the House of
Burgesses [concerning the privileges of the council and grievances of
the people]; and an address [copy], 1715, of the council to the House of
Burgesses [concerning John Roberts, James Shields, and James Terry]); an
address (copy), 1715, of Alexander Spotswood to the House of Burgesses
(concerning the militia); an address (copy), 1715, of Alexander
Spotswood to the House of Burgesses (concerning their rights and the
trial of justices of the peace); an address (copy and imperfect), 1715,
of Alexander Spotswood to the House of Burgesses (concerning the
dissolution of the House; Indians; the Yamassee War; quitrents; and
religion); an address (copy and imperfect), 1718, of Alexander Spotswood
to the House of Burgesses (concerning John Clayton and the Governor's
Palace, Williamsburg, Virginia; and bears address [copy], 1718, of the
House of Burgesses to Alexander Spotswood; and instructions [copy],
1718, of the House of Burgesses to Alexander Spotswood [concerning
laws]; an answer, 1718, of Alexander Spotswood; and instructions [copy],
1718, of the House of Burgesses to William Byrd II [while serving as
their agent in England]; and minutes [copy], 1718, of the House of
Burgesses [concerning instructions to William Byrd II]); an address
(copy), 1718, of Alexander Spotswood to the House of Burgesses
(concerning Nathaniel Blakiston, William Byrd II, Josiah Forbes, William
Howard, and pirates); addresses (copies), 1715, of the House of
Burgesses to Alexander Spotswood (concerning Thomas Butts and Richard
Littlepage); an address (copy), 1718, of the House of Burgesses to
Alexander Spotswood (concerning the Virginia Court of Oyer and
Terminer); an address (copy), 1718, of the House of Burgesses to
Alexander Spotswood (concerning the College of William and Mary,
Williamsburg, Virginia; the Virginia Court of Oyer and Terminer; Fort
Christanna, Brunswick County, Virginia; the Virginia Indian Company; and
the Catawba and Sapony Indians; and bears instructions to William Byrd
II [agent for the House of Burgesses in England]); an address (copy),
undated, of the council to Alexander Spotswood (concerning a letter from
the council to the Board of Trade); address (3 copies), 1720, of
Alexander Spotswood to the council (concerning the appointment of
William Byrd II by the Virginia House of Burgesses to be their agent in
England); a speech (copy), 1715, of Alexander Spotswood to the Virginia
General Assembly (concerning the Yamassee War; and bears a petition
[copy], 1715, of the House of Burgesses to Alexander Spotswood
[concerning the Yamassee War]); and a bill of complaint and legal brief
(copies) [1719?] in the lawsuit of the Vestry of Bruton Parish Church,
Williamsburg, Virginia v. Alexander Spotswood (concerning the induction
of ministers).

Section 79, Indian Trade, Materials, 1715-1718

This section consists of four items, materials, 1715-1718, concerning
the Indian trade. Items include a petition, 1715, of the Virginia House
of Burgesses to the council (concerning John Roberts, James Shields, and
James Terry; and taxation); recommendations, 1717, of the Board of Trade
(also bear opinion of William Thompson [while serving as solicitor
general of England]) concerning tobacco; an address, 1718, of the
Virginia House of Burgesses to the Virginia Council (concerning Fort
Christanna, Brunswick County, Virginia; and the Catawba Indians); and
resolutions, 1718, of the Virginia House of Burgesses (concerning Fort
Christanna, Brunswick County, Virginia; and the Virginia Indian
Company).

Section 80, Virginia Council, Materials, 1714-1719

This section consists of seventeen items, materials, 1714-1719,
concerning the Virginia Council. Items include extracts (copies made by
William Robertson), 1714-1719, of the journals (concerning William Byrd
II, Nathaniel Harrison, Robert Hix, Robert Hunter, Christopher Jackson,
William Lyell, Micajah Perry, and George Walker; the Court of Oyer and
Terminer; the Virginia Indian Company; Fort Christanna, Brunswick
County, Virginia; the Board of Trade; vestries and the appointment of
ministers in the Church of England; quitrents; militia; lawyers; and
surveying); a resolution (copy made by William Robertson), 1715, to the
House of Burgesses (concerning the council's rights and privileges);
memorials (copies), 1715-1717, to the Board of Trade (concerning
quitrents and the Court of Oyer and Terminer); a proposal (copy made by
William Robertson), 1715, to the Virginia House of Burgesses (concerning
Elizabeth (Gibbes) Fenwick and Sarah (Patey) Fenwick and the Yamassee
War in South Carolina); minutes, 1719, of a council meeting; and notes
(made by Philip Ludwell II), 1715-1718, (concerning Alexander Spotswood
[while serving as governor of Virginia] and the council).

Compilation © 1995 by the Virginia Historical Society

Paul Murauskas
g3socsgm@hq.c5.army.mil		07/10/1997 8:07:38
Reference to Southern PlantationsMURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)Sorry, but the text did not bold for you.

I guess you have to read it all!

Paul Murauskas
g3socsgm@hq.c5.army.mil		07/10/1997 8:13:41
Re: Reference to Southern PlantationsAlbert R. TimsPaul,

Super! I'll check to see which libraries outside of VA might have this
collection. No doubt that it could prove invaluable. THANKS!

Al Tims

07/10/1997 10:27:16
Other points to ponderLea L. DowdAs "Free Men of Color" they continued


I have an overwhelming need at this point to add my two cents about this
subject.....

1) Free Person of Color means that... of color. This does not mean that
they are particularly African American, it also means could be Native
American. For many years, midwives were instructed to mark a birth
certificate as Black, if the baby was not lily white. The State of VA
recognized this error and has subsequently made corrections to remedy this
situation. I applaud them for their recognition of this error and attempt
to rectify it.

2) I sincerely suggest that you read my article published Feb 1996 in the
NCGHSJ regarding Paul Heinegg's book on Free African Americans of NC and
VA. He may have won a Jacobus Award, but was dead wrong in his
classification of the BASS family, among others.

3) There was also an obscure law Abt. 1713-1726 which basically stated that
any person that was a child or a Native American or a child, grandchild of
an African American was designated as a "Mulatto". So many people over the
years have wrongly assumed that the definition of the term "Mulatto".

4) According to many, there are no Native Americans east of the
Mississippi. I disagree with this statement. Now, I will say that there
probably very few if any with 100% Native American Blood, but then you
skirt the blood quantum issue. For that matter, I read a study that stated
that if your family was from early VA in the 1700's, you had Abt an 80
something % chance of having Native American blood. If they were from the
1600's, then that chance rose to over 90%. The Nez Pierce tribe was one of
the first to practice selective breeding of horses. They are the tribe
that developed the Appaloosa. When Chief Joseph was captured after his long
chase, the first thing they did was to take their horses and breed them to
anything, donkeys etc. as a further insult to the tribe. It wasn't until
Abt 1940 that a wonderful man decided to try and bring the breed back. The
mindset was if you can't beat them, dilute the blood until they don't
exist.

5) It is books such as these that have a tendency to utilize census
records to manipulate truth. If the census records are to be assumed
correct, then the BASS family are a bunch of chameleons. They bounce back
and forth from white to Free persons of Color to black. THIS family has
been in court many times to prove their Native American heritage. These
documents are still available to be viewed.

6) In Southampton Co., VA, the remainder of the Nottoway Indians signed an
agreement which basically stated that they would be allowed to sell their
land, but that they would no longer receive the land leases and rights
entitled to the Tribe. Subsequent census then show these people listed as
black.

7) I am not saying that there were NO intermarriages between African
Americans, whites and Native Americans. What I AM saying is that in order
to determine this, you must be aware of the social and political situations
surrounding this issue. Many Native Americans opted to classify themselves
as African Americans in order to gain some semblance of rights. The slaves
had more rights than Native Americans. Also as you read the names of
slaves listed, it might help to realize that the word or name "Mingo" is a
Powhatan word for an Iroquois. Native Americans were made slaves as well.
Slave does not mean African American.

8) Another point to consider... As Lou so astutely pointed out... Do you
really think that a white man just walked into a village and gained their
respect to trade with them? I think not. James Logan even lived with the
Native Americans for a period of time, as did others. I personally believe
that there were MANY intermarriages between Natives and whites and have
records to document a multitude of these. A good number of these were
between Indian Traders.

9) Pocahontas by Disney was a fairy tale and a very inaccurate one at that.
How many of you knew that she had been previously married to a Native
American named Kokoum? Did you also know that Pocahontas had a sister
referred to as Cleopatra that married Opechancanough. Their daughter
Niketti married Capt. John Hughs? This family then descends on down to
Davis, Lewis, Venable, Moorman (Yes, Linda), Powell, Strange, Morton &
Woodson among others. "A" group of Woodson's were enumerated among the
Nottoway Indians as late as 1825.

As Al previously stated, I do have a soapbox and I apologize for getting on
it again. The greatest advice that I would like to pass on is to PLEASE
read original work. Do not ASSUME that others works are correct. They may
contain errors. Even my own work probably has errors (Heaven forbid ).
I hope that these few points will help you to understand the history of the
times and people a little better.

Lea
lea@gnat.net		07/10/1997 10:30:56
Other points to ponderCharles NealRe:
> I sincerely suggest that you read my article published Feb 1996 in the
NCGHSJ >regarding Paul Heinegg's book
Lea, that is an excellent article. I had read it when I first got my
issue, and had not made the mental connection of you, after you recently
joined our List, to the article. Well done!

Since you joined later than our big discussion of it, I will mention that
Jean Poythress Spille had explored with us, too, how the Free Persons of
Color apparently could've included some Portuguese who came to dig the
canal

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/10/97		07/10/1997 10:42:46
Misc.7/10/97Charles NealRe Maynard's observations on Sandy Krutilek:
>suggested to Barb Neal that she phone Sandy since it was local call. Barb
got no >answer.
Actually, I (Barbara) could not find any phone NUMBER for Sandy at the
Pacific Palisades address -- none listed, and the info operator didn't even
say that she had a nonpub one.
Apparently she no longer lives here.

Re: Paul Murauskas contribution -- Yes, keep those posts from abroad coming
in. Appreciate your presence.

Maynard: re your
>I'd suggest I make a follow-up call to Libbie Myrick and see if they want
to do anything >.....failing at that, shoot, we just make up our own
Flowerdew Page.
I would suggest that calls be placed, yes, but that we tread carefully
there, and NOT just make up our own page.

Re
>story about how the Brunswick records got saved... even care if it was all
myth
I concur; I would enjoy hearing it.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/10/97		07/10/1997 10:42:48
Re: Other points to ponderMarion & Helene PockrusThere is an excellent article that I posted in our Library tonight from the
Muleugeon Board. 5 pages long but excellently written about just the point
you are discussing here. It discusses the diluting from 1100 when the
Portugese were here until the mixing of the early "colored" (not
necessarily black) were slowly integrated. Some of the names listed as
being of this group were Randals, Ganns and (Goings) Some of these crop up
on this board.
Helene		07/10/1997 11:58:25
Misc.Lou Poole.....Lou, Sandy Krutilek has dropped off the radar screen. When I
sent out letters to all former correspondents notifying them of web page I
suggested to Barb
Neal that she phone Sandy since it was local call. Barb got no answer. I
wrote to last known adds. and it bounced. I'm a little suprised she is not
on some kind of PC link. Anyway, if you know of her whereabouts, please tell
her about the page would you? Thanks.

Barbara Neal......Barb, I'm phoning around in Ga. to see where I order those
Augusta Chronicle copies. I'm drawing a lot of blanks. I think U. of GA.
library will be the one soon as I can find somebody home in the Archives
Dept. . Yes, I plan to just go ahead and order the copies.

Paul Murauskas.....Paul, hey, welcome aboard. Great posts! Keep those cards
and letters coming. Your bible list just laid me out a few hours work in LVA
this fall. And I am approaching some of those with great trepidation....I
have photocopy of the original on the Maitland bible out of library of Va.
Historical Society and I'm here to tell you its about like translating
Chinese. Accordingly, the ones with the transcriptions I'm sure to fall in
love with. And by the way, hiss if I ever complain again
about being 7 hours each from Richmond and Atlanta. I guess where you are
its internet or nothing, would seem to tend to give one a lot of practice on
the PC though.

Barbara Wolfe......hey, Barbara, you xeroxed and transcribed all those neat
Mecklenburg County documents and sent copies to BPN and me back years ago.
Why don't you put 'em up on the board? They are a tad "late" as I
recall....1850's (?) but still.....its rounding up the usual suspects. For
example that deed from Lewis P. to sons Lewis Y. Poythress and Thomas
Poythress. Don't you just KNOW that Thomas is either named for an uncle
(Thomas the Ga. sheriff) or even more likely (and preferable in our case) a
grandfather....who would be the progenitor of more than half of us.

Lyn Baird....Lyn, what did you decide to do on Flowerdew contact? I'm
amenable to just about anything you think is best...thats your stomping
ground with your mother's contacts. If your mother doesn't want to pick it
up, I'd suggest I make a follow-up call to Libbie Myrick and see if they want
to do anything.....failing at that, shoot, we just make up our own Flowerdew
Page. I have a great notecard-sized black and white line drawing of the
windmill that Al could scan into an intro page.

And Lyn, when you going to post that story about how the Brunswick records
got saved? That one sounds so good I wouldn't even care if it was all myth.

Best,

Maynard		07/10/1997 12:05:38
Thomas P. Deed FragmentThis an interesting, but mostly frustrating, document. It is a single page
deed fragment that is Mss1 T6895 a 3844-3847 in Va. Historical Society
library.
I am posting with the hope that the other names and/or description of the
property might hit someone's "association" button. Its name is "Barns 1
(fragment)". No county or dates are cited.

The left margin of the paper is intact with room for a handwritten note
vertical on the left margin: "Picked up by my father after some Yankis had
raided and destroyed a Citti - where I now forget". The paper is parchment.

The top, bottom and right edges of the paper are torn off, almost as if it
were done with a straight-edge or cut with sissors. The deed is handwritten
and the handwriting "falls off" the right edge. Therefore, it will not parse
properly since I'm typing it and I will type the "lines" exactly as they are
on the sheet:

Land containing forty acres be the same more or less, lying and...
in the Parish and County aforesaid on the South side of Pole Ru...
Part of the said Land being formerly bought by the said John Ba...
the said Thomas Poythress and the other part being given to the...
Elizabeth Barns by her grandfather James Jones and is all the......
that the said John and Elizabeth Barns hold on the said Run a......
Bounded as followeth (viz) begining on Pole Run at Joseph Glov....
and running up the said run to Thomas Potses line thence along...
Potses line to John Smith's line thence along John Smith's line to..
Glover's line thence along the said Glover's line to the begining.....
HAVE AND TO HOLD the said forty acres of land be the sam......
or less with all and Singular its appurtenances to the said Tho.....
Poythress and his heirs and assigns to the sole use and behoof of the...
Thomas Poythress his heirs and asigns forever and the said Joh...
for himself and his heirs the said forty acres of Land against....
and his heirs and against all and every other Person and Person...
soever to the said Thomas Poythress and his Heirs and assigns sha..
will Warrant and forever Defend by these presents. In Witn....
whereof the said John and Elizabeth Barns have hereunto set....
hands and affixed their Seals the day and Year above mentione...

Signed Sealed & Delivered} John (his Barns (sea
in Presence of..................} mark)

[is Potses the same as Poythress which is spelled conventionally in three
places on the document? If it were not for "Thomas Potses" in line 7 I would
say no without qualification....but line 7 has to make one wonder. Presence
or absence of possesive apostrophes are no clue as these are used in no place
on the deed]

Maynard		07/10/1997 12:05:42
FHC Documents of InterestAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below are several books/manuscripts with Poythress and allied family
references identified by Helene Pockrus in a recent search of the Family
History Library. Helene provides information on ordering these immediately
below. Please let us know if you've reviewed any of these works. Thanks
to Helene for sharing this information.

Best,
Al Tims
_____________________

These are films and books available at the Family History Library in SLC.
Unless it says otherwise(copyright protection) these films can be ordered
to th nearest Family History Center anywhere in the world. There is a
nominal charge to keep it in that library for 6 weeks (about $3.50).
--------------------------
CALL NUMBER
US/CAN
BOOK AREA
929.273
A1
no. 5106
AUTHOR
Austin, Jeannette H. (Jeannette Holland), 1936-
TITLE
Wynne, 1550-1800 / by Jeannette H. Austin.
PUBLICATION INFORMATION
Riverdale, Ga. : J.H. Austin, [1985?].
FORMAT
[10] leaves
NOTES
With: Williams, ca.1640-1905 / Jeannette H. Austin. Riverdale, Ga. :
J.H. Austin, [1985?].
CONTENTS
Robert Wynne (1622-1675) immigrated from England to Charles City County,
Virginia and married widow Mary Poythress (widow of Francis Poy-
thress). Descendants and relatives lived in Virginia and elsewhere.
Includes ancestry in England.
Includes Woodleif and related families.
US/CAN
ADDITIONAL FORMATS FILM AREA
Also on microfilm. Salt Lake City : Filmed by -------------- 1321107
the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1986. on 1 item 22
microfilm reel ; 35 mm.

THIS RECORD FOUND UNDER
1. Wynne
2. Poythress
3. Woodlief
-------------------------------
CALL NUMBER
US/CAN
BOOK AREA
929.273
W73d
AUTHOR
Danforth, Art, 1912-
TITLE
A Winn family story : the ancestors and all identified descendants of
Llewellyn Parks Winn, 1841-1923.
PUBLICATION INFORMATION
[United States] : Art Danforth, c1986.
FORMAT
179 leaves : ill., maps, facsim.
CONTENTS
Bibliography: p. 172-174.
Begins with Robert Wynn of 1563 of Salop, England, and continues with
ancestors of Llewellyn Parks Winn of 1876 in Virginia. Also includes
information about the allied family lines of Danforth, Gould, Henley,
Hurst, Paschall, Poythress, and Stringer.
Includes documentation such as maps, photocopies and detailed historical,
social, and geographical accounts. Includes first name and surname indexes
and table of contents.

THIS RECORD FOUND UNDER
1. Winn
2. Danforth
3. Gould
4. Henley
5. Paschall
6. Stringer
7. Poythress
----------------------
CALL NUMBER
US/CAN
BOOK AREA
929.273
A1
no. 5816
AUTHOR
Dotson, Flora B.
TITLE
Analysis of Cheney Boyce, Richard Tye, and John Coggan and Poythress; / by
Flora B. Dotson ; The Pace-Poythress land transactions ; Continuation of
the Pace-Poythress connection ; The Richard Pace-Richard Baker question ;
Research notes on Rebecca Cocgan and Major Francis Poythress, supplement ;
Research notes on Poythress ; Research notes on Littlebury Eppes (Epes).

PUBLICATION INFORMATION
1987-1988.

FORMAT
37 leaves.

NOTES
Typescript.

CONTENTS
John Cogan married Joyce, the widow of Richard Tye in 1659. Their
daughter Rebecca was born ca. 1660 and married Major Francis
Poythress who died in 1688. Their daughter Rebecca Poythress
was married to Richard Pace by 1699. Includes additional
genealogical analysis of various family relationships.
Many family members lived in Charles City County, Virginia.
Includes Epes, Pace, Kirkland, Ardington, Knowles, and related families.
Includes index.
Consists of a series of articles written by the author, 1987-1988.

THIS RECORD FOUND UNDER
1. Poythress
2. Tye
3. Cogan
4. Boyce
5. Pace
6. Kirkland
7. Ardington
8. Epes
9. Knowles
I. The Pace-Poythress land transactions
II. Continuation of the Pace-Poythress connection
III. The Richard Pace-Richard Baker question
IV. Research notes on Rebecca Cocgan and Major Francis Poythress,
supplement
V. Research notes on Poythress
VI. Research notes on Littlebury Eppes (Epes)
-----------------------------
CALL NUMBER
US/CAN
BOOK AREA
929.273
B812me
AUTHOR
Merrill, Eleanor Brown.

TITLE
A Virginia heritage / by Eleanor Brown Merrill.
- ------------------------------		07/11/1997 2:39:29
Lyn's Question-PG & Dinw.How does one research PG and Dinwiddie?

Following are just my thoughts....how I did it/do it....and I really didn't
think this through, I just started doing it and this turned out to be about
the only way I think it was doable: assembling fragments (large and small)
from a million different sources. I'm not even sure I would call it
"research"....at least in the sense of a methodical
process.

Starting I guess five or so years ago Barbaras Neal and Wolfe and Bud P. and
I just haunted potential sources, xeroxed everything in sight and mailed each
other copies. Bud even had a "hired gun" for a while. We all furiously wrote
round-robin letters. That was before we knew what e-mail was. As you might
well imagine we ran up some nice Xerox and postage bills.....but it was
certainly not in vain. I have probably 70+ 1 1/2" three ring binders full
on Va. and maybe 8 or 10 on Georgia. Do I have a lot of
duplications?...probably.

As for search "method" there are some "reconstructed" records but I really
don't think these amount to any huge part of the available information. I
guess I would say that far and away the majority of the information comes
from "peripheral" sources.

For example (and this is only a random example) there are 3 or 4 volumes of
"The Edward Pleasants Valentine Papers" (a relatively common genealogical
source I now know) in the local historical society here in Louisville. I
found them just walking down the "Virginia" shelves. I had never heard of
them before.

There is a respectable (barely) quantity of Virginia material in KY simply
because people here researching typically "come from Virginia"...shoot, their
families were Virginians. Anway, I just pulled down the last volume, looked
in the index for Poythress, xeroxed the title page and all the references to
P., put 'em in a three ring binder....and start hunting for the next likely
source. And the way we got to likely source records was to go to what we
considered likely "places", Va. Hist. Society Library for example. Barbara
Neal, for example, I think combed the entire directory of that periodical
"The Southside Virginian". Barbara Wolfe (don't ask me how) rustled up scads
of photocopies of documents....I think Mecklenburg and Brunswick mostly.

I will most certainly stand down in favor of an organized method proposed in
lieu of my disorganized method by just about anyone....but to my
non-analytical mind this was the way to do it. And IF one accepts that
premise, it sets up a favorable scenario considering the degree of difficulty
of the whole enterprise. That is: when one of us "works" a site we can mark
that site off the list. To be sure the searcher, just on the percentages,
missed something and to be sure another group member will later bring up a
back door entry that may need looking up under something besides the "P's"
but for the majority of instances....that source is DONE....and PROVIDED (a
big hooker) the finder has posted the information for everyone else, another
member of the group physically going to "pump out" this particular source is
a low leverage proposition.

Still looking at this method in the macro, an obvious downside is that you,
for example, weren't around when all the xerox copies were being sailed
around the world so, at worst, you might conceivably be starting from scratch
and that sure isn't effective....but short of buying our own Kinko's
franchise I really don't know how to fix that one. I do, however, recognize
the problem and that is why I have been such a vigorous "poster" of
documents, compilations of abstracts, etc. I figure the more I can cut down
on the "held" knowledge in all my binders by transfer to the "page" the
better off we all are......particularly since we have folks (BPN, Bud, Al,
etc.) who have the laser beam mind that I don't have and can rip this stuff
apart and start building logical scenarios out of it.

In my view we got ourselves a world class delimma....here I sit with all this
information and ain't smart enough to put it on a program.....but starting
now I have to get that way...simply because I think in large part we have
reached diminishing returns....I came home from a mad xeroxing trip to
National Genealogical Society Library (Arlington) to find that about half my
stack was of duplicates copied long ago.
So, all I can say is I'm going to work on it. Don't let me create or leave
you with the impression that I have some guy's detailed contemporaneous
history of PG County....its all fragments as stated orginally. And its not
in some "obscure" place, its just in "a lot" of places.

In the meanwhile, most any of us can do "look-ups" for you but I certainly
understand that is not your main message. You want something you can start
"putting together" if my sense is correct.....and thats the same thing I
want.

Let me give you (and this probably going to get longer than I want it to)
something of a check list of places "NOT" to go....or at least don't go to a
lot of trouble to get there...because I've already been. I will also include
the physical location where I think the supply of fragments suggests itself
as just about inexhaustable because I haven't been able to scratch the
surface.

To wit:

1. my first one is the simple disclaimer that Al Tims, et al are finding more
stuff in more places via the net than I ever dreamed possible so take that as
a big caveat up front with which to dilute my "claims".

2. in GENERAL, the stuff you will find on the net OTHER THAN abstracts of
originals, transcribed documents accessed via net.....i. e., the material
"posted" by "genealogists" who use that universal web format that actually
encourages little or no documentation, is by and large junk. It has value
more as a "finding guide"..i. e. you see a name and a date and at least you
have a place to start looking even if you suspect its fantasy. And by the
time you meet enough great grandsons of General Lee you'll likely get a tad
cynical about it too. So....stick with things like that Brunswick County
page where Carol Morrison has abstracted all those deed books, the LVA
electronic catalog, the Wm. & Mary Quarterly reprints, all those land patents
that Al found Lord knows where.

3. Sons of American Revolution Library.....headquarters is here in
Louisville....90% of it is the documentations guys used to qualify for
membership. I have spent 3 or 4 days in there and assure you it can be
scratched off the list as a blank. (but again, for your purposes, thats not
so hot because while I have what little I found here in my records, you have
nothing).

4. Va. Historical Society, Richmond...I shudder to say this because that
place is a gold mine of original documents but I honestly think I have a copy
of everything in there that says Poythress on it. The bill was over 200
smackers when I walked out the door so if I DON'T have it all, I sure have a
wad of it.

5. National Genealogical Society Library. Frankly, I was a bit disappointed
but I think my expectations were perhaps unrealistic. Again, I think its
"pumped out".

6. Filson Club, Louisville.....drained 100%.

7. Calendar of Virginia State Papers
Hening's Statutes of Virginia
Virginia Historical Register
Tyler's Quarterly
Virginia Mag. of History and Biography
William & Mary Quarterly Historical Mag. Series I
William & Mary " " " Series II.
I realized that here I'm switching from physical sites to "works" on you but
these are all covered by the Swem Index and, excepting the ones I might have
missed when brain dead, I think I have it. ("it" being xeroxes of all the P.
mentions and articles) If you have a decent sized genealogical library in
Houston you could probably cover this one as quickly as I did.

Whats left? No doubt plenty....and maybe our list-meister, being experienced
at putting together "studies" of stuff can suggest a format for attacking
what I suppose I would call "the dissemination problem". Maybe we want to
build our own "bibliography" check list as a group....and how to do that sort
of stuff Al would know.

I realize I haven't solved anything for anybody but maybe my thrashing about
will help to clear somebody's mind on the subject.

One final note....the place that I now believe to be the mother lode (I
suppose just by elimation) is the Library of Virginia....I got in there one
day and copied some "generic" stuff already published in books (Weisiger is
an author's name to look for) but I didn't know until recently that one can
just go into the archives of loose papers, etc. and just poke about. And
that there are supposed to be mountains of this stuff.

And to further sweeten the LVA pot, we have learned that the R. Bolling Batte
(died 1996) papers, reputed to be over 30M 8 x 5 index cards on families
Bolling, Batte, Poythress, etc. have newly arrived.

Somebody want to pick this thread up and continue it.....I guess you all know
everything I do by now. And Lyn, any specific questions, by all means get
back to me....I don't particularly lack energy, just direction.

Best,

Maynard		07/11/1997 3:51:25
Re: Lyn's Question-PG & Dinw.Marion & Helene PockrusMaynard:
How the heck do you find anything? Especially those loose pieces of info
that don't fit anywhere.?
I have a family line of HOLTS that a group of researchers years ago
decided to try to keep all the odds and ends. I am most grateful to them
as many of them are gone now. They devised a binder which I have a copy of
thanks to one of the gals. In it the just made small notes on every Holt
they found and alphabetized them. So I may have 20 pages of Williams but I
can sift through the clues of where they are and the notation about them,
then go to the source they mentioned and go from there. When ever someone
has a new one that they came across, they just added it to the main index.
Then no one had to have the full copies of anything unless they chose to
research that person.This binder is 2-3 inches thick and has nothing but
one or two liners. In this case most are from the south so they could
further their own research. No sense in going backwards. With the
computer, it would be easy for everyone to keep track of those lists.
For instance:
John Holt: 1 tithable in John Michells' Precinct, year 1739, Orange Co.,
VA.

Just a thought.
Helene		07/11/1997 4:38:38
Re: Lyn's Question-PG & Dinw.Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

The answer to the document problem is simple, but the task is demanding.

What we need to develop is either (1) an annotated bibliography of sources
(emphasis on annotated) with key words and/or (2) a searchable database
bibliography with annotations and key words.

We simple can't put everything up on the web page. We could eventually
develop such a database of references for the web page, but to do so will
take lots of time and effort. I do lots of database work in my job and
can build one we might be able to use fairly easily, but I won't have the
time to "stock the shelves" without major contributions from many of you.

As for research in Virginia, there are several good genealogical reference
books that can help. Craig Scott has most on them listed on his WillowBend
web site. Barbara Neal might be able to offer additional suggestions.
Personally, I've found Carol McGinnis' "Virginia Genealogy: Sources and
Resources" (Genealogical Publishing Company, Baltimore, 1993) very helpful.
I think it costs about $35 in hardback. She deals specifically with
alternative sources when researching the "burned" counties.

So, my best and only good advice on this topic .

Best,

Al Tims		07/11/1997 5:55:48
BAIRD/POYTHRESSJohn Baird, Esq., of Prince George County VA b. ca 1732 Easter Muckcroft,
Scotland of John and Anne Starke Baird. He immigrated to Petersburg, VA in
1750 as a merchant. Married ca 1762 to JANE POYTHRESS who died in July 1779.
First legal papers in Va were as "John Baird, Jr" , then briefly as "John the
Elder" and lasting as "John Baird, Esq.", of Prince George County. He
operated as John Baird & Company of Blandford. He first lived at the John
Baird house, then after marriage at Hallsfield in P G. County. He moved to
Greencroft after giving Hallsfield to his son William Baird as a wedding
present. John's first of many ventures outside wide Merchant classification,
was founding and operating The John Baird House. He lived, held his office
and provided room and board for visitors here. It was a meeting place for
planters from the wilderness, Europe and visiting businessmen. He also
supplied bread for th4e early Colonial troops from the kitchens at the John
Baird House. He sold the John Baird House in the early 1780's and moved his
operations to the Blandford section of Petersburg. Blandford then had docks
and tobacco warehouses. Blandford dominated Petersburg as a business center
for only a few years. He found interest in being a planter and selected the
Roxboro, NC area as desirable for growing tobacco. His land holdings totaled
more than 40,000 acres. John also imported race horses, the most famous geing
"Merry Tom".
Compiled by Roger P. Baird from Baird Family Papers; Benjamin Rice Baird
Papers (W&M Library); L. F. Baird Family Papers; Chesterfield County,
Lunenburg County, Petersburg Court House, Scottish Record House, Glasgow,
"The Tobacco Lords" U of Richmond Library; Books by Dr Benjamin B. Weisiger,
III, Va Historical Society; Person, Orange and Caswell County Court Houses in
NC.		07/11/1997 8:32:32
Frys/Speedswayne scruggsPoythress list:
This is in responce to al's questions on the Speed/Fry connections.
Mary Spencer Speed,daughter of Capt. James Speed,married William Smith
in 1789. He was a man of great wealth who went from N.C. to Kentucky in
1788.They had 3 children:Elizabeth Smith born 1790,John Speed Smith born
1792 & Guy Smith born 1794. Their Daughter Elizabeth Smith married
Thomas Walker Fry,son of Joshua Fry who was born in Va,and a soldier of
the Revolution. Joshua Fry's father was, Col. John Fry who commanded the
Virginia troops in the Colonial Wars. His father was Joshua Fry an
English gentleman & Oxford graduate who went to Va. from England &
became a Prof. at William & Mary College.Thomas Walker Fry's sister,
Lucy Gilmer Fry married Judge John Speed,brother of Mary Speed Smith.
They were like double first cousins and the Speed family & Fry families
were all very close. I know nothing of the Callaway & Griffin
Families,or of Tabitha Eppes.
Judy		07/11/1997 8:33:07
Re: Other points to ponderLea L. DowdThat is very interesting as the Goings/Goins family is reportedly Lumbee.
I would love to correspond with anyone working on that line.

Lea
lea@gnat.net

: From: Marion & Helene Pockrus
: To: Lea L. Dowd ; POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
: Subject: Re: Other points to ponder
: Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 1:58 AM
:
: There is an excellent article that I posted in our Library tonight from
the
: Muleugeon Board. 5 pages long but excellently written about just the
point
: you are discussing here. It discusses the diluting from 1100 when the
: Portugese were here until the mixing of the early "colored" (not
: necessarily black) were slowly integrated. Some of the names listed as
: being of this group were Randals, Ganns and (Goings) Some of these crop
up
: on this board.
: Helene
:		07/11/1997 9:38:50
Re: Researching Prince George and DinwiddieMarion & Helene PockrusLyn:
I have all of the FHL films available of the court records etc listed on
the Library Catalog here. If you would like I will send a list of these
films that are available to read at your local FHCenter. There is a
nominal cost for shipping of about $3.50 to keep it at the center for 6
weeks and you have unlimited access to reading it there. I'll send a
couple of attachments for Prince George Counties. You let me know what you
think.
Helene

----------
> From: Lyn P Baird
> To: poythress-l@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Researching Prince George and Dinwiddie
> Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 9:55 PM
>
> Poythress List
>
> All, this is a request for general advice on how to research the
> Poythress family in Prince George and Dinwiddie Counties, Virginia,
> giving the sad state of court records in these counties. Maynard and
> others have posted references from Prince George court records. How are
> such obtained? Are there reconstructions of the records from secondary
> sources? Does one go to the county seats? To Richmond? Or to the web,
> instead? Then, assuming there are records to be researched, what indices
> exist and which are reliable and which are not. Lots of questions.
> Thanks, anyone, for the help.
>
> Thanks,
> Lyn
> llbaird@juno.com		07/11/1997 12:40:43
Peter, son of MeredithHEY BUD: a "find" for us all:

Meredith's son Peter didn't die in S. C......or at least he got to Ga. before
he did. And here is further verification of our projected linkage:

SCREVEN COUNTY Book A-2, p. 182.

7th day of ____, 1809

Peter Poythress, of Screven County, Ga. first part, conveys to Thomas
Cleaton, second part, of Mecklenburg County, Va., for 43L current money of
Virginia, paid to his father, Meredith Poythress, by said Cleaton, and for
one cent in United States coin, paid to Peter Poythress by Thomas Cleaton, a
certain tract of land in Mecklenburg County, Virginia containing 50 acres by
estimation.
Usual Warranty
In presence of: Peter Poythress (ls)
Hardy Parker, James Ponder
Recorded 30th day of October 1809
Roger McKinney, Clerk

[comment: obviously a family transaction made technically legal but I can't
quite figure out how it goes. Transcription by Dorothy B. Poythress. (guess
I ought to look thru all that old material more often)]

Maynard

Maynard		07/12/1997 1:34:28
Tabitha POYTHRESS QueryJWinstonDear POYTHRESS List:

I have been back to the Louisville Library to find information on the
James B. Cabell argument that Elizabeth Bland was Tabitha's mother. Six
different members of the Cabell family corresponded with the author,
Wassell Randolph. James B. Cabell's notes on his research of the
Randolph family can be found on file in the research room of the Memphis
Public Library. His correspondence evidently was in the '40s and 50's.
If any one is in the Memphis Area, maybe they could look?

On the Cocke question, here are some UNverified notes that I have
found-including uncited material on the net. I think they may be
worthwhile following up on:

Thomas Cocke md. Margaret Powell
Their son, James Cocke, b.1661 d.1721, md. 11 Jan. 1691, VA, Elizabeth
Pleasants, b.circa 1676 d. circa 1751. Elizabeth Pleasants mentions her
daughter Elizabeth Poythress in her will.

Elizabeth Pleasants Cocke, b. circa 1693, md. Thomas Poythress, b.circa
1677, Charles City, "a cousin of Joshua". According to the citation,
this comes from "LDS Library, Salt Lake City, Oct.1992, 'Cockes and
Cousins' "

Feel free to correct me on any of this information. If this is true,
it may eliminate this Elizabeth Poythress as Robert's wife. It does seem
to add to the question of who was the wife of Robert Poythress.

Elise Courtney H. Markham		07/12/1997 6:46:22
Tabithe Poythress QueryJWinstonHi!

I just found some info on James Branch Cabell. He was a noted author
and avid geneologist who died in 1958. There is a James Branch Cabell
Library that houses much of his correspondence and notes at the Virginia
Commonwealth University. From what I can gather, his Randolph notes are
at the Memphis Library where Wassell Randolph's research was printed.

Elise Courtney H. Markham
wry@aye.net		07/12/1997 7:59:24
John Baird m. Jane PoythressJohn Baird:

John, do you have copy of Bolling Batte's trial chart of Poythress family? I
made a supply of copies because its a great schematic 17 x 11 that lets you
see all those guys and gals in perspective; a la Jane (m. John Baird) was
daughter of Robert (1690-1745), Robert was son of John (m. Christian
Peebles), John was son of "the Francis". The "text" of the Batte chart is
on the webpage but it comes crystal clear if you are looking at the schematic
as you are reading the text of the chart.

We have found Mr. Batte in a sin or two of omission but not in a sin of
commission...
and he's about the best we got for this particular purpose.

Be happy to send you a hard copy if you want to send me your snail mail adds.
Any-body else on the wire too, for that matter.

Maynard		07/12/1997 8:46:11
Ties That BindAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following isn't even pure speculation. I'm not trying to make a case
-- just thinking out loud.

If (BIG IF) we assume that there really was a Jane Poythress (dau of
Francis) who married Thomas Rolfe; and IF we assume that Thomas Rolfe came
to hold significant lands -- not granted by the government, but by the
Pohatans:

1. Would Jane's father (Francis) and brothers (Francis, John, Thomas) have
any special "family" status among the Pohatan tribe? Would they have been
able to travel in Indian territories with immunity or even in the company
of the tribe on hunting/trapping excursions?

2. If the above is true, how would this have affected their relationships
with other tribes in the region? Would this have made it harder or easier
for Peter and Robert Poythress to emerge as traders and interprets with the
tribes to the south?

3. Moreover, wouldn't the Jane Poythress - Thomas Rolfe marriage place the
Poythress family squarely as part of one of the most notable mixed-race
marriages in early colonial history?

I don't expect anyone to be able to answer the questions. A little
knowledge is often dangerous -- and I'm feeling particularly dangerous
right now . Just something to think about as we try to understand the
forces that might have help shape the course of history for the Poythress
family.

Best to all,

Al Tims		07/12/1997 10:05:18
Re: Lyn's Question-PG & Dinw.StarrPOYTHRESS list,

I'll chime in here with a couple additions of things to research and
one big suggestion, which is only my opinion. It seems that Al's
contribution of the web page is enough to ask of him; setting up a database
is time consuming -- but altho the person setting up a CLARK database isn't
finished yet, I've already seen the benefits. Now, I personally have
neither the time nor the computer expertise, but isn't there someone else
on the list who has an hour a day to begin building one?

Here's how the CLARK one works -- We first set up limits (only VA 1600s
and 1700s) which I don't see "you" doing with the POYTHRESS one. I sent
copies from the genealogy I use most often and other works as I come across
them. She cites as she goes, and matches names with additional sources
where possible. I forward info I discover on the net to her with a comment
"for later" or "see now" depending on whether it fits our immediate CLARK
line or one of the "southside" bunch. So, the person building the database
shouldn't also have to come up with the data ... which is where the rest of
you/us come in. That way someone just getting started on POYTHRESS
research can contribute, receive loads of data "free" and the group gets a
database. But that's just my opinion.

Maynard mentioned Weisiger as an author only in passing. I started
Henrico Co. research with him. I consider his work an index to all the
court records -- a place to see relevance of "other" surnames before you
begin digging in originals. Weisiger has done "some" of the Pr George
records; TLC is another "good" abstractor of court records for those
working Brunswick Co. I'm sure Craig has a complete list of Weisiger's
works; TLC has a web page and advertises in The Helper. Chamberlayne's
abstracts of the parish vestry books are another good source. [I much
prefer reading books to reading microfilm and haven't had the opportunity
to do much genealogical travel.]

I would also like to suggest Virginia Lee Hutcheson Davis' "Tidewater
VA Families" as an excellent source. And since I have a full set of her
quarterlies, will look up POYTHRESS entries after I return from vacation.
Someone probably should remind me of this offer in about ten days.
Have a good week. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/12/1997 10:39:11
John Baird & Company partners and a bit of intrigue for spiceAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

John Baird's note about John Baird of Blandford and some recent exchanges
with Lea Dowd concerning Gray Briggs prompted me to recall a couple of
interesting items relevant to both of these men and the Poythress family.

In part, John wrote:
John Baird, Esq., of Prince George County VA b. ca 1732 Easter Muckcroft,
Scotland of John and Anne Starke Baird. He immigrated to Petersburg, VA in
1750 as a merchant. Married ca 1762 to JANE POYTHRESS who died in July
1779.
First legal papers in Va were as "John Baird, Jr" , then briefly as "John
the
Elder" and lasting as "John Baird, Esq.", of Prince George County. He
operated as John Baird & Company of Blandford.

First -- Jane (Poythress) Baird's death is noted as 3 July, 1779 in the
Personal Notices from the Virginia Gazette. A minor item. I hope John will
write this up with full references so we can add it to the Poythress web
.

Secondly, the "& Company" of John Baird & Company were Peter Poythress,
Gray Briggs & William McWhann (of whom I know little).

Finally, and most interesting of all, consider the following two items. In
the first, we find William McWhann appointed to the Committee of
Intelligence" for Prince George on 8 May, 1775. In the second item we find
evidence that McWhann was "forced to leave the colony, his partners
supporting the rebellion." I think there is a "story" here. Perhaps even
the seeds for a historical spy novel!

I have yet to determine what became of the substantial property claimed by
Mr. McWhann. I suppose it was taken over by his former partners --
Poythress, Briggs & Baird. The LVA survey below indicates that this claim
is 18 pages. So, have any of you examined this document? It seems
reasonable to assume that it might indicate more about the circumstances of
Mr. McWhann's departure (soon after being elected to the committee of
intelligence ) and perhaps a detailed description of his estate and the
affairs of his partnership. Seem worthwhile? Oh yes, do take note of the
other names on the committee of intelligence.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------
"Committee of Intelligence," appointed at a meeting of the committee for
Prince George county held at Blandford, 8 May, 1775, "to convey any alarm,
as speedily as possible, to the adjacent counties," the same "mode" being
recommended to the counties in the colony:

Benjamin Harrison of Brandon, David Meade,
Richard K. Meade, Hubbard Wyatt,
Peter EPPES, James COCKE
Nathaniel Harrison, John BAIRD,
Robert Boyd, William McWHANN
Richard BLAND Theodorick BLAND, Jr.
Nathaniel Raines, Thomas Bonner,
John Raines, Jun.
------------------------------------
Loyalist Claims Series II - Virginia 1776-1789
Folder M II.
The claim of William Mc WHANN, merchant, late of Blandford, Virginia, and
now of London, partner in the firm of John Baird & Co. with John Baird,
Gray Briggs and Peter Poythress, for the loss of 4 lots of land, houses,
furniture, negroes and debts valued at L3,775-3-7. He had
been forced to leave Virginia in 1775, his partners supporting the
rebellion. Claim dated 3 December 1783, his earlier memorial of
16 April 1779 having been rejected as he had gone to America.
(18 pages).
- ------------------------------		07/13/1997 1:51:02
Welcome, Honored GuestCharles NealWelcome to the Dixons!! I have been fortunate to read some of your earlier
compiled information, which looks like it will help us greatly in our
Poythress-Puzzle-working. I confess, though, that I have not yet had time
to digest all your info, but considering how long it probably took for you
to put it all together, I guess that does not surprise you greatly.
(Note: the "g" inside of the "< >" marks, indicates a grin)

Anyway, welcome aboard. Hope you find this week's computer-genealogy trip
to be of interest.

Barbara Poythress Neal (or BPN, for short) 7/13/97		07/13/1997 8:12:08
Charles Cleaton & PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pardon me for repeating some information you have seen in other messages.
Barbara Poythress Neal is working on will transcriptions. Immediately
below is one currently under study in which Charles P. Cleaton is named.
Note: Barbara tells me that she believes that the middle initial may be a
P rather than a D as she first thought. (Others with this will in hand
would be of great help by providing an independent read).

In any event, this will for Jack Poythress gives new meaning to the second
item below. While item 2 below doesn't mention a Poythress, it does bring
together Cleaton, Taylor, Dortch, Hicks and Harwell families and provides a
partial record of the family relationships. I hope we'll be able to piece
this together with other Cleaton, Dortch, Giles and Hicks information to
frame a better sense of how these families connected -- and where they
lived.

Best,
Al Tims

ITEM 1
Mecklenburg County, VA Will Book 8 (1813-1819), pp. 465
Will of Jack Potress, recorded 17 August 1818:
In the Name of God Amen I Jack Potress of Mecklenburg County being in
sound
mind and memory do make and ordain this my last will Testament, hereby I
desire what my Grandfather Giles left to me I wish it to be paid to my
Father his heirs.
his mark, Jack Potress (s)
Edward Giles, James S. Nance
Milly Nance

At a Court held for Mecklenburg County the 17th day of August 1818
This will was proved by the oath of James S. Nance one of the witnesses
thereto, and is ordered to be recorded Teste Joel Watkins,
D.C.
And at another Court held for the Sd County the 18th day of [Jany?] 1819
The Same was further proved by one other witness hereto subscribed [and?]
in motion of Lewis Potress [and?] [illeg?] appearing at this Court
certificate is granted him and obtained letters of administration [illeg?]
[illeg?] of the [illeg?] dec[eased?] [?] due for the giving security
whereupon he together with Edward Giles [Jr?], Charles [D?] Cleaton his
securities [entered?] unto [have?] [reckoned?] [to?] [go?] [to?] [their?]
[bond?] in the penalty of five hundred dollars conditioned in the law
[disicis?] [illeg?] [Eyer?] [?] Tabb, C.M.C.

ITEM 2

CHANCERY PROCEEDING - CLEATON, Charles P. - Court for November 27, 1826.
Suit in Chancery. Harrison Barner and John Barner and others, plaintiffs
against Joseph H. Travis and Wm. F. Brodnax, Executors of John Barner,
defendants. This day this cause was docketed and came on to be heard on the
bill answer and exhibits heretofore filed in this cause and it appearing to
the court that the order of publication as to the absent defendants,
Benjamin Marrable and Lucy, his wife, has been regularly inserted in the
public newspaper and posted at the front door of the courthouse of this
county according to the order heretofore made in this court by this court
It is decreed and ordered that John Taylor, John B. Thrower, Richard R.
Browse, Robert Jones and James Seward or any three of them do divide the
slaves and the estate owned by John Barner the Elder to his wife for life
and which were not otherwise specifically disposed of equally between the
devisees of the testator that is to say that they allot to William Harwell,
Elizabeth P. Baugh late Harwell, Joseph Harwell, Martha Harwell, wife of
Samuel Harwell, Rebecca J. Dorch late Harwell, Nancy Clauswell, late
Harwell, John B. Harwell, Caroline A. Harwell, Mary Harwell and Richard
Harwell one fifth they being the children of Rebecca Harwell late Barner,
to Charles P. Cleaton, Catharine Rainey late Cleaton in right of the said
Catharine Thomas Cleaton, Benjamin Tanner and Elizabeth his wife late
Cleaton in right of the said Elizabeth, Jesse Rose and Edney his wife late
Cleaton in right of the said Edny, William B. Cleaton and Parasade Cleaton,
children of Elizabeth Cleaton late Barner, one fifth to James Hicks, John
B. Hicks, Isaac Hicks and Francis B. Hicks, sons of Tabetha Hicks late
Barner, one fifth and on fifth to Judith Pittello wife of Littleton
Pittello which said fifth is allotted her for life and to revert to all her
children after her children and to Benjamin and Lucy Marable late Barner,
the remaining fifth according to the will of the testator in kind if it can
be effected and make report thereof in order to a final decree.

Order Book 31, page 381, Brunswick County, Virginia		07/13/1997 9:25:29
Re: Charles Cleaton & PoythressLea L. DowdWell, I don't know about the Cleaton and Poythress connection, but that
last item has stepped all over my lines. They relate in so many ways (i.e.
Hicks and Patillo.) Littleton Patillo is the brother to my 4th great
grandmother Rebecca Patillo who married John Hicks BASS.

Here is what I have for the FGS of that Barner family. Maybe someone else
will see a link.

Lea

1. John Barner , Sr., died 1822 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: Brunswick
Co., VA WB 9 P. 223; OB 31 P. 381). He married (1) Elizabeth Harrison
(Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA). She was the daughter of Benjamin
Harrison , Sr. and Elizabeth.

More About John Barner , Sr.:
: 20 Mar 1821, Will dated
: 27 May 1822, Will proved: Ex: Jos. H. Travis & Wm. F, Broadnax (Source:
Brunswick Co. WB 9 P. 223)
: 12 Nov 1799, Benj. Harrison, Jr. ex. & surviving heir to John Barner 380
acres (Source: Brunswick Co., VA DB 18 P. 34)
: Wit: Hamlin Hicks, Robt. Harrison (Sr.'s grandsons) (Source: Historical
Southern Families; Boddie)
: Will Wit: James W. Nicholson, Wm. Buckner, Thos. H. Steed, & Burwell
Barker

Children of John Barner and Elizabeth Harrison are:
i. Judith Barner (Source: Brunswick Co., VA WB 9 P. 223 : OB 31 P. 381),
married Littleton Pattillo 15 Feb 1798 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: MR
Brunswick Co., VA).

More About Judith Barner:
: 22 Oct 1804, Littleton & Judith-Zakiel Blanch land- Wit: N. Fletcher &
Ruchard Clack. (Source: DB 19 P. 171 Brunswick Co., VA)
Notes for Littleton Pattillo:
DB 18 P. 170 Brunswick Co., VA 26 Spe 1801; Rec 26 Sep 1809
Deed of gift. Indenture between James Petillo and Littleton Petillo of
Brunswick Co. for natural love and affection of his son, 250A bounded by
Davis Ezell, George Gunn, Ezekial Blanch, & Howell Taylor. Wit: Lew
Williams, Willie Bass, L___ Hartwell, Chas. (x) Hill
More About Littleton Pattillo:
: 1810, Brunswick Co, VA (Source: 1810 Census)
: 1820, Brunswick Co., VA (Source: 1820 Census)
: 1830, Rutherford Co., TN (Source: 1830 Census)
: 23 Jun 1806, Little resigned 96th Regmnt of C9ommonwealth (Source: OB
21:430 Brunswick Co., VA)

ii. Lucy Barner (Source: Brunswick Co., VA DB 15, WB 9 P. 223), married
Benjamin Marable 30 Jul 1799 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: WB 9 P. 223
Brunswick Co., VABrunswick Co., VA MR).
iii. Harrison Barner (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA), married
Polly Jones 17 May 1786 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: Brunswick Co., VA
MR).
iv. John B. Barner , Jr. (Source: Brunswick Co., VA WB 9 P. 223).
v. Rebecca Barner (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA), died Bef. 27
Nov 1826 (Source: Brunswick Co., VA, OB 31:381.); married James Harwell 16
Nov 1779 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co.,
VABrunswick Co., VA MR).
vi. Elizabeth Ann Barner (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA), died
Bef. 1821 (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA); married Thomas Cleaton
28 Apr 1788 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co.,
VABrunswick Co., VA MR).
vii. Tabitha Barner (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA), died Bef.
1821 (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA); married Miles Hicks Bef. 1820
(Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA).

More About Tabitha Barner:
: 28 Sep 1812, Returns slave girl lent by father John Barner (Source: DB 22
P. 22 Brunswick Co., VA)
More About Miles Hicks:
: of NC (Source: WB 9 P. 223 Brunswick Co., VA)

:
: Poythress List,
:
: Pardon me for repeating some information you have seen in other messages.

: Barbara Poythress Neal is working on will transcriptions. Immediately
: below is one currently under study in which Charles P. Cleaton is named.
: Note: Barbara tells me that she believes that the middle initial may be
a
: P rather than a D as she first thought. (Others with this will in hand
: would be of great help by providing an independent read).
:
: In any event, this will for Jack Poythress gives new meaning to the
second
: item below. While item 2 below doesn't mention a Poythress, it does
bring
: together Cleaton, Taylor, Dortch, Hicks and Harwell families and provides
a
: partial record of the family relationships. I hope we'll be able to
piece
: this together with other Cleaton, Dortch, Giles and Hicks information to
: frame a better sense of how these families connected -- and where they
: lived.
:
: Best,
: Al Tims
:
:
: ITEM 1
: Mecklenburg County, VA Will Book 8 (1813-1819), pp. 465
: Will of Jack Potress, recorded 17 August 1818:
: In the Name of God Amen I Jack Potress of Mecklenburg County being in
: sound
: mind and memory do make and ordain this my last will Testament, hereby I
: desire what my Grandfather Giles left to me I wish it to be paid to my
: Father his heirs.
: his mark, Jack Potress (s)
: Edward Giles, James S. Nance
: Milly Nance
:
: At a Court held for Mecklenburg County the 17th day of August 1818
: This will was proved by the oath of James S. Nance one of the witnesses
: thereto, and is ordered to be recorded Teste Joel Watkins,
: D.C.
: And at another Court held for the Sd County the 18th day of [Jany?] 1819
: The Same was further proved by one other witness hereto subscribed [and?]

: in motion of Lewis Potress [and?] [illeg?] appearing at this Court
: certificate is granted him and obtained letters of administration
[illeg?]
: [illeg?] of the [illeg?] dec[eased?] [?] due for the giving security
: whereupon he together with Edward Giles [Jr?], Charles [D?] Cleaton his
: securities [entered?] unto [have?] [reckoned?] [to?] [go?] [to?] [their?]
: [bond?] in the penalty of five hundred dollars conditioned in the law
: [disicis?] [illeg?] [Eyer?] [?] Tabb, C.M.C.
:
:
:
: ITEM 2
:
: CHANCERY PROCEEDING - CLEATON, Charles P. - Court for November 27, 1826.
: Suit in Chancery. Harrison Barner and John Barner and others, plaintiffs
: against Joseph H. Travis and Wm. F. Brodnax, Executors of John Barner,
: defendants. This day this cause was docketed and came on to be heard on
the
: bill answer and exhibits heretofore filed in this cause and it appearing
to
: the court that the order of publication as to the absent defendants,
: Benjamin Marrable and Lucy, his wife, has been regularly inserted in the
: public newspaper and posted at the front door of the courthouse of this
: county according to the order heretofore made in this court by this court
: It is decreed and ordered that John Taylor, John B. Thrower, Richard R.
: Browse, Robert Jones and James Seward or any three of them do divide the
: slaves and the estate owned by John Barner the Elder to his wife for life
: and which were not otherwise specifically disposed of equally between the
: devisees of the testator that is to say that they allot to William
Harwell,
: Elizabeth P. Baugh late Harwell, Joseph Harwell, Martha Harwell, wife of
: Samuel Harwell, Rebecca J. Dorch late Harwell, Nancy Clauswell, late
: Harwell, John B. Harwell, Caroline A. Harwell, Mary Harwell and Richard
: Harwell one fifth they being the children of Rebecca Harwell late Barner,
: to Charles P. Cleaton, Catharine Rainey late Cleaton in right of the said
: Catharine Thomas Cleaton, Benjamin Tanner and Elizabeth his wife late
: Cleaton in right of the said Elizabeth, Jesse Rose and Edney his wife
late
: Cleaton in right of the said Edny, William B. Cleaton and Parasade
Cleaton,
: children of Elizabeth Cleaton late Barner, one fifth to James Hicks, John
: B. Hicks, Isaac Hicks and Francis B. Hicks, sons of Tabetha Hicks late
: Barner, one fifth and on fifth to Judith Pittello wife of Littleton
: Pittello which said fifth is allotted her for life and to revert to all
her
: children after her children and to Benjamin and Lucy Marable late Barner,
: the remaining fifth according to the will of the testator in kind if it
can
: be effected and make report thereof in order to a final decree.
:
: Order Book 31, page 381, Brunswick County, Virginia		07/13/1997 10:08:45
Map PackageCharles NealLea Dowd, my individual message to your above address bounced back as
undeliverable. Hoping you will get it this way, thru the List -
BPN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lea,

Glad you got the copy of one corner of the map so quickly. Yes, the map is
great; though it would certainly be nicer if it can now be placed in
conjunction with rivers, creeks, and other map markings. The 1984 platting
& drawing of that old hand-drawn map of Nottoway County was done by Dr.
Robert Brumfield, who also did Amelia County (which is just north of
Nottoway) and Prince Edward County (which is just west of Nottoway), & who
donated all 3 of them to the:
Amelia County Historical Society
P. O. Box 113
Amelia, VA 23002
which copyrighted them and which sells them and the typed indexes to all 3
maps, at $10 per county: an excellent buy. The indexes were prepared by
Mr. Sterling Anderson, who donated them to the Society.

I am not aware of any of Brunswick County or Dinwiddie County already
having been so mapped, but if either has been, I'll bet that Carol would be
aware of it since that is her "stomping grounds."

All for now
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/13/97		07/13/1997 10:18:57
Re: Tabitha POYTHRESS QueryAlbert R. TimsElise,

I don't have a direct response to the information you discovered as yet.

I hope you caught my note about the Randolph papers on microfilm at the
University of Kentucky in Lexington. I don't know if they'll contain
anything related to Tabitha, but they might offer other insights. This
collection can also be found at Auburn, U of GA - Athens, U of Delaware,
LSU, UNC - Chapel Hill, Middle Tennessee State, The Newberry Library in
Chicago, U of VA, William and Mary and here at the University of Minnesota.
I hope to be able to get a look at the collection in the not too distant
future. By the way, UK also holds a microfilm collection of the Southside
Virginia Papers (1748 - 1918).

Best,
Al Tims
----------		07/13/1997 10:21:42
Honored GuestHey, folks, we have a guest on the line for the next week. (and also a
prospective new member).

Martha Dixon's daughter Alice (AEADIX@aol.com) took her laptop on vacation
with her mother and Al Tims will be signing Alice's address on to the list so
that Martha Dixon can get mail there. Martha will be "auditing the course"
until next Friday. I have already sent Martha the Rogue's Gallery Biography
List. If you get a second or two, drop Martha a welcoming line at the
Poythress List address, I'm sure she'd be glad to hear from you.

Martha's first experience with computers is precisely like each of
ours...this thing is a MONSTER. I have told Martha that by next Friday it
will be like she has been handling one all her life and she will be champing
at the bit to get one and get in on the fun with a bunch of great folks.

Best,

Maynard

07/13/1997 11:06:44
Re: you grew up in and around Savannah!I was born there! And have cousins living there. It does take a long time
to pull the sandspurs out of your feet, doesn't it? Actually, I grew up in
Atlanta and graduated from Girls High School, never mind how many years ago.
I do hope we will be able to wrap up our Georgia Poythresses as a
tribute to Maynard's mother who, like me, was caught up in the mystic of the
name and worked so diligently to find all the links...encouraging others,
like me, along the way,

07/14/1997 1:06:06
Search engine: HotBotSearch engine HotBot (www.hotbot.com) when given "Poythress" turns up 304
"hits",
about par for the course.

But the interesting thing about HotBot is the "density" of genealogy pages on
the listing, perhaps 50%+. And another 40% you can whiz right by without
wasting any time. If it says anything remotely connected to jobs, skip it
because its something from Ga. Dept. of Labor (picks up my brother David's
name). If it says anything remotely connected to religion its picking up
that author Vern Poythress who writes theological books and articles.
Assuming you have no interest in either of these two HotBot is a "quick"
search.

Again, as we have said before, there is a ton of misinformation in a lot of
these sites so they are probably best used as a "search guide" to find our
own reliable information...but this one is full of "raw" data.

Maynard		07/14/1997 3:27:03
By GEORGE, I think we've got something hereAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

You "ancient" listers will recall that I've speculated from time to time
about a possible connection between Francis Poythress and the London
Company. You'll also recall that I've been interested in the ships named in
the following account: ...Lawrence Evans, merchant, sent to Virginia in the
previous year goods for a value of £2,000 in three ships, the Rebecca,
master - Richard Buckham, the George, master -- Robert Page, and the
Hopewell, master -- William Smith. One factor died during the journey, his
other factor Francis Poetres returned a bill of only £150.
C. M. Andres, F. G. Davenport, Guide to the Manuscript Materials for the
history of the United States to 1783, in the British Museum, in Minor
London Archives and in the libraries of Oxford and Cambridge (Washington,
D.C., 1908) pp. 170-177. p. 220

I don't know why it has taken me so long to make this connection, but it
turns out that the ship the London Company had arranged for John Rolfe,
Lady Rebecca (Pocahontas) and young Thomas Rolfe to use for their return
to Virginia in March of 1617 was the above named George.

This is as close as I believe we've come to developing a basis for
establishing a link between the London Company and Francis Poythress.

Best,
Al Tims		07/14/1997 4:13:52
Welcome!Dear Martha and Alice,
Welcome to our Poythress roundtable! I am Barbara Poythress Wolfe, a
descendant of David (1800-1876) from Mecklenburgh, VA with an undetermined
kinship to Lewis and Thomas too.
My line moved into NC and then FL and AL.
Trust that we'll have lots of information to share and that you will enjoy
our discussions and speculations too.
Sincerely, Barbara Poythress Wolfe		07/14/1997 4:58:28
Welcome NeighborDear Mrs Dixon and Alice,

We're always delighted to find (possibly) another cuz, no matter just how
distant! Great to have you with us, even if it is for only a short while.

But I must remind you, even a small sample of "a good thing" may prove to be
contagious!

I'm one of the "Poythress Boys", and like Maynard, if you pull my string it
seems to runs back to Meredith, Sr and I think Edith Cleaton, so we need all
the help we can get.

I grew up in and around Savannah, but mainly in Chatham and Effingham
Counties and have walked through many of those cemetaries in that location.

Again, welcome, and again we're delighted to have you with us.

Our best to you,

Bud - now living in Wilmington, NC
(or more real "LeRoof [and I can assure you there ain't but one of me]
Poythress", second son of Joseph Eugene Poythress,
Sr)...(BPoythress@aol.com)

07/14/1997 5:35:28
Welcome NeighborDear Carl,

Welcome aboard cuz! Always great to find another cousin, no matter how
distant!

Sorry, but there for a moment we had gaven you a "new name" but you'll have
to admit it was a duzzie! At least it had the familiar and the real
"classic spelling".

But you see, there is another Carl! But this one is Carl C. Poythress, Jr.
presently living in Savannah, GA (my home town) that I've been in contact
with and have attempted to get him to "dial us in" (the discussion group that
is). But unfortunately, my Carl doesn't have a computer -- but his daughter
does, and there for a moment I just thought -- maybe I'd had at least a bit
of luck and he had checking in for a "look see". No such luck, I guess.

But we are delighted to have you aboard with us and hope to see more of you.

Bud (now living in Wilmington, NC)
(BPoythress@aol.com)

07/14/1997 5:35:29
Re: By GEORGE, I think we've got something hereThink about Thomas Rolfe being even a child, say 2 or 3, in 1817 when he came
home on the George (BTW is that the ship Pocahontas never caught because she
died in London?). Anyway, Francis has got to come to America 1633, get
married,
have daughter Jane, and Jane has to grow up enough to get married, call it
age 18 just for a reasonable guess. That puts Thomas at age 36 and Jane at
age 18 at time of marriage, certainly possible (even probable). I guess I
just never thought of it.

MP		07/14/1997 9:30:22
Re: SuggetionsThanks, Scott, for all the information. I do have another piece of the
puzzle that I would like to give you about the Georgia Poythresses - that
William Poythress who described himself as a RS in the l827 Lottery. Was he
the same William Poythress who was recruited in Virginia and fought with
Gen. Pickens et al ? There was one, you know. Might he no have returned to
VA and enlisted his brothers to leave Brunswick County, VA for Burke County
after the war? Now it begins to make some sense. He was in the Continental
Line of Georgia., though recruited in Virginia. We know our William of GA
(brother of Thomas the Sheriff) served with the GA forces. He is listed in
Robert Scott Davis, Jr's paper back book about Revolutionary soldiers in
Georgia. We know RS William Poythress brought his son, William, Jr. to GA
and that William, Jr. was a Corp\Ensign in the GA Militia at the time that
his cousin,, George Poythress was Major. If other sons and daughters of RS
William came to Georgia , also, we do not know. William, Jr,had a son,
James . Was he "Thomas " Jaames... MJMDIXON
-deletes James?"		07/14/1997 9:53:55
SuggetionsCraig R. Scott> I'll chime in here with a couple additions of things to research and
>one big suggestion, which is only my opinion. It seems that Al's
>contribution of the web page is enough to ask of him; setting up a database
>is time consuming -- but altho the person setting up a CLARK database isn't
>finished yet, I've already seen the benefits. Now, I personally have
>neither the time nor the computer expertise, but isn't there someone else
>on the list who has an hour a day to begin building one?

Some of you may know that in another life I am the Clan Scott Genealogist
with a database of over 53,000 records tracking over 3,000 different Scott
folks whose parents I don't know. Also I am the President of the Association
of One-Name Studies. In both capacities, I have learned (as many on this
list already know) that there is no such thing as an hour a day. The process
is all comsuming and lifelong. Most of us already have GEDCOM files of
POYTHRESS material. What should probably happen is that, once some foolish
person voluteers to do such a thing, we all send our GEDCOMs in to be
integrated into a single repository.
>
> Maynard mentioned Weisiger as an author only in passing. I started
>Henrico Co. research with him. I consider his work an index to all the
>court records -- a place to see relevance of "other" surnames before you
>begin digging in originals. Weisiger has done "some" of the Pr George
>records; TLC is another "good" abstractor of court records for those
>working Brunswick Co. I'm sure Craig has a complete list of Weisiger's
>works;

Anyone wishing a list of the Weisiger and Chamberlayne books that Willow
Bend carries only has to ask.

C.

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		07/14/1997 10:22:02
Fwd: Major George P. "of Virginia"---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Major George P. "of Virginia"
Date: 97-07-15 15:55:33 EDT
From: AEADIX
To: VKRatliff

Thanks for the encouragement; but, I'm not QUITE THAT BRAVE!

With reference to Ranks and Titles, it would appear that each state (and
even sections of states) had its own way of granting. For example, your
grandfather in Georgia was called "Colonial." Was he not a lawyer. All
lawyers in GA were given the honorary title of "Colonial."

l

]
The Military Records of Georgia show that George P. was the Major of a
unit and that his coousin, William P.,Jr. was a Ens/Corp, of a unit down in
the lower part of BurkeCounty - the part that became Screven County after
Dec.l798. When I return home, I will send you copies of these from my
reference books. )

)
Now, as to those honorary titles given plantation owners - and what was
a plantation owner!! Well, you will remember that, when King George made
grants of land to his subjects, he referred to them as "plantations" even
it they were only l00 acres. So, technically, every landholder was a
"plantation owner." in his/her own right by the King. After Eli Whitney
invented the cotton gin, the rush was own for more and more land . The
small sold out and went west. The larger got larger and, of course, required
larger and larger black families. To tell you the truth, I don't know
whether the titles were based on the extent of the plantings (for example,
it was not uncommon for a rich man to the "planting" in several counties
(absentee landlordism) in which case the owner would have members of his
black family all over the place. Or, the titles may have been based on
the number of planatations he owned. But, no matter how small the plot, the
white owner was called "Capt." - usually only if he had only a few members of
his black family. This would go all the way up to Colonial.

)

(
The plot thickens....After THE WAR , if a man had achieved a military
ranking, he was called by that until the end of is life.

)

(
So, you see, our George really was a Militia Major. His father-in-law
Alexander Carter was referred to as, I think, a super SUPER GENERAL (on
his tombtone). Gen Carter entertained Pre. George Washington on
his way from Savannah to Augusta. But, the l790 tax records shows that Major
George Poythress' house was worth $l,500. while the General's house was
worth $l,000. Believe George was living in his father's house that George
inherited. Maybe - Maybe Not.		07/15/1997 2:02:41
Edward Randolph Turnbull and Koutz's RaidLyn P BairdSome of you have expressed interest in the story of how Brunswick County
records survived the Civil War. Perhaps there were numerous threats
repulsed, but the incident that has become legend surrounds Koutz's raid.
I have heard many embellished versions of this tale through the years.
The most authoritative account of which I am aware is found in Neale's
Brunswick County, Virginia, 1720 - 1975, p. 175, which follows:

>From a letter from the Honorable Robert Turnbull, Lawrenceville, to the
Archivist, Virginia State Library, April 14, 1916:

"My father, Edward Randolph Turnbull, was county clerk at the time
Koutz's (1864) raid came through this section. I was a small boy at the
time, about 12 or 13 years old, and was in the office of my father when
he left it just before the raiders came into our town, and he took a
Masonic flag that was in the office and spread it out on the office table
before he left. I helped do this. About twenty minutes after the
raiders came into town a guard was sent to my father's house, who gave
him the flag. After the raiders left we went back to the office and it
looked as if all the records were destroyed, or a great part of them, as
the floor of the office was about a foot deep in papers, but upon careful
examination we found nothing was injured that was of any value. We had a
case in the office that was filled with old blanks and they threw these
all over the floor. They tore the leaves out of a lot of blank books,
and scattered these over the floor and then put ink over the top of this
stuff they had thrown on the floor; otherwise nothing was injured, and
the records are still intact beginning with 1732 and down to the present
time."

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		07/15/1997 2:16:04
Important LinkageI have here before me a transcript of a single 1799 Burke County, Georgia
document signed by Thomas Poythress, George Poythress, Edward Poythress, and
Thomas Poythress, Jr.:

PETITION
Asking for Pardon for Leonard Nobles, Jr., 1799
To his Excellency James Jackson esquire Governor and commander in Chief in
and over the State of Georgia and of Militia & Army & Navy there of.

The petition of the Subscribers Inhabitants of the County of Burke in the
said State, Most Respectfully Sheweth.

That having understood Leonard Nobles is at present confined in the Jail of
Screven County and under Sentence of Death.....they are induced from Motives
of Humanity, and in consideration of his extreme age and helpless Family to
Solicit your Interposition in his favor and that your Excellency....granting
him a pardon for the above mentioned Offence; and they as duty Bound will
ever pray, etc. Burke County,
28th October 1799.

Signers: 50 individuals, including..
Thomas Poythress
Geo. Poythress
Edward Poythress
Thomas Poythress, Jr.

I consider this extremely important evidence with respect to "the Thomas
Poythress" question which had offered us two options:

a) Thomas is the father and he himself came to Georgia from Virginia
(with sons
George-Meredith-Thomas, Jr.-Edward-William (or some combination
thereof)
while Lewis remained in Mecklenburg County. Elder Thomas is sheriff
Burke
of Burke County.
or....
b) Thomas the father stayed in Mecklenburg County (with Lewis) and some
combination of brothers came to Georgia (including Thomas JUNIOR who
became sheriff of Burke County).

Based on c 1740 birth for 'a' Thomas and a certain 1800 death in Georgia for
'a' Thomas, that argues forcefully for "c 1740 Va.- 1800 Ga." to be one in
the same Thomas who is sheriff of Burke County Oct. 21, 1799 to late 1800
when he dies in offfice at approximately age 60. The very presence of a
Thomas Jr. in 1799 as an "inhabitant of the County of Burke" (with the
others) argues that Thomas, Sr. is the sheriff and has with him son Thomas,
Jr., and George and Edward Poythress, very, very likely also sons.

The implications of the above would seem to be threefold:

1) the answer to "the Thomas question" is "a)".

2) we can start looking for a father of Brunswick/Burke's Thomas (Sr.). This
man was probably born somewhere around, say 1690 to perhaps as late as 1720.
This father's name may or may not also be Thomas....but we ought to clear
all the Joshuas off the table first. (more below on this).

2) since we don't see any more of Thomas, Jr. and I don't THINK we see any
more of Edward that wouldn't necessarily "prove" but it certainly would
support the comments on Martha Dixon's trial chart saying:
Thomas James Jr.> b. ca 1767 Va., d. bef. 1803 or moved away
Mil. Ens.(?) Edward>b. ca 1769 Va.- (?), may have moved to Elbert
City and
then to Alabama.
(Nice going, Martha)

Next question: where were Meredith and Martha Elizabeth Amanda?....well this
document proves "only the affirmative", not "a negative". They didn't all
HAVE to be there at the courthouse to sign the petition. Meredith and MEA
could have been home pickin' cotton...it was October 28....MEA would have
been only 13 so she wouldn't have been around the courthouse or allowed to
sign a petition anyway.

My conclusion at this time is that we can start looking for Thomas' father
which is not to imply that we haven't always looking for him in some sense
but that we can look for him in earnest now because we have his son Thomas
pinned down almost as a certainty. And if, and, or when we find him I
suspect we might have the link back to PG County and that would be
great...some of you ladies could maybe start warming up your writing hands to
sign those papers for Colonial Dames. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

Now who is Thomas' mystery father??????

Just for starters, Bud, with your permission, I will take as my text that
letter from your hired genealogist H. S. Holman of Lawrenceville, Va. I seem
to remember you writing in one of your letters that you dropped Mr. Holman
pretty quickly because of lack of enthusiasm or something to that effect. At
any rate, you weren't happy and after reading his stuff I could see why.
However nothing in all that says we can't let Mr. Holman give us a hint or
two (shaky or not).

Anyway, in an undated "Poythress Report" which Mr. Holman sent to Bud (Bud
paid, thanks Bud, the next round is on us) Mr. Holman gives citations in
first couple of paragraphs about Meredith marrying Edith Cleaton and Meredith
making that "house of his father Thomas" affidavit in 1782 which we know
about so they don't tell us anything. Then Mr. Holman goes on to say, and
I'm quoting here: [my comments in square parentheses]

"This Thomas Poythress ["this" meaning the one of the 1782 affidavit but I
don't know how he got to that] was shown on the tax records of Brunswick
[when?] with six slaves over 16 years of age. He appears in the deed records
as early as 1773 [about right for a man for whom we have a projected 1740
birthdate] selling 525 acres--part of which was on Fountain's Creek - for
400L to John Dameron (Br. DB 11, p 239). [Do we have a confirmation on
that?] The other transactions dated through 1795 were sent in a previous
report [?].

In these deed records he is listed as Thomas Poythress of Martin's Brandon
Parish, Prince George County. [if this is so plus its the right Thomas this
is a really big deal] The 1782 tax records show the other Poythress Family
members in Prince George: Joshua, who had twenty four slaves over sixteen;
Mary, with eighteen slaves over sixteen & Mary with ten slaves over sixteen &
also Wm. with sixteen slaves over sixteen.

I suppose Joshua was the father of Thomas, but with the records burned
there's no way to prove that at this time. There was another Joshua of
Prince George whose estate was settled in 1741 by Thomas and Robert
Poythress. The latter Joshua was likely the father of the Joshua who was
living in 1742.

Lastly there was another Joshua Poythress who had a manor house at
Flower-dew-hundred [sic], Prince George County in the seventeeth century. He
was likely the same Joshua who was executor for the estate of Thomas
Poythress [when darnit?]"

So the above is what we have to go on from Mr. Holman and admittedly its not
much.
Holman gives us three Joshuas. Joshua #1 [who gets a "suppose" from Mr.
Holman]
is, I believe one we can consider. Our Thomas would be about age one if he
was the person settling the estate of Joshua# 2 so # 2 is not a likely
candidate. Joshua# 3 would be the son of John, son of Francis the first.
Holman says this Joshua# 3 had Flowerdew in the seventeenth century and was
the executor of an estate of Thomas Poythress [obviously a different Thomas].
Although Holman has a slightly dismissive tone with respect to Joshua # 3,
Bolling Batte has Joshua # 3 dying in 1740 so let's call him only a
"possible", especially since Batte has the children of Johusa # 3 listed.
Qualifying THAT however is that we do know Batte was capable of missing a
child or two.

Well, I'm worn out from thinking about this one. Anyone want to throw
something
else on the table? Thoughts? Opinions? Curses?

Best.

Maynard		07/15/1997 4:40:16
Repost-Peter, son of MeredithReposted for reason described below. (Heads up, Lea)

SCREVEN COUNTY Book A-2, p. 182.

7th day of ____, 1809

Peter Poythress, of Screven County, Ga. first part, conveys to Thomas
Cleaton, second part, of Mecklenburg County, Va., for 43L current money of
Virginia, paid to his father, Meredith Poythress, by said Cleaton, and for
one cent in United States coin, paid to Peter Poythress by Thomas Cleaton, a
certain tract of land in Mecklenburg County, Virginia containing 50 acres by
estimation.
Usual Warranty
In presence of: Peter Poythress (ls)
Hardy Parker, James Ponder
Recorded 30th day of October 1809
Roger McKinney, Clerk

Transcriber: Dorothy B. Poythress

REPOST COMMENTS:

Note that this is land sold by Peter NOT to his grandfather, it is to his
UNCLE,
Thomas Cleaton, b. 1750-60 in Va.; married ELIZABETH ANN BARNER,
28 April 1788 in Brunswick County. Thomas is listed as presumably the oldest
of the eight children of William C. Cleaton II, b. ? d. before 1790 m. Jane
Poole.

Lea: isn't that Barner lady one of yours?

Maynard		07/15/1997 4:40:19
Re: Important LinkageCraig R. ScottAt 06:40 PM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I have here before me a transcript of a single 1799 Burke County, Georgia
>document signed by Thomas Poythress, George Poythress, Edward Poythress, and
>Thomas Poythress, Jr.:
>Signers: 50 individuals, including..
> Thomas Poythress
> Geo. Poythress
> Edward Poythress
> Thomas Poythress, Jr.

The very presence of a
>Thomas Jr. in 1799 as an "inhabitant of the County of Burke" (with the
>others) argues that Thomas, Sr. is the sheriff and has with him son Thomas,
>Jr., and George and Edward Poythress, very, very likely also sons.

I don't want to be the fly in the ointment or anything but everything was
going along just fine until the arguement began to hinge on the issue that a
Jr. had to belong to a Sr. Based on the information provided (and I am not
an afficinado of these Ga. Poythresses, I'm still stuck in 1859 remember)
there is not sufficient evidence to create a perponderance of the evidence
case for Thomas Jr belonging to Thomas Sr. There is no doubt that they are
related in some way, but is he a nephew who is known as Jr. to keep him
unique from the Sheriff? Is he a cousin just a few years younger (I doubt
it)? What other information exists to make it so?

C.

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		07/15/1997 4:59:26
Re: Repost-Peter, son of MeredithLea L. Dowd>

>Note that this is land sold by Peter NOT to his grandfather, it is to
his

>UNCLE,

>Thomas Cleaton, b. 1750-60 in Va.; married ELIZABETH ANN BARNER,

>28 April 1788 in Brunswick County. Thomas is listed as presumably the
oldest

>of the eight children of William C. Cleaton II, b. ? d. before 1790 m.
Jane

>Poole.

>

>Lea: isn't that Barner lady one of yours?

Maynard and all,

First, I am so glad to be back on-line. I may recover from withdrawal
soon. My service is now back up, so hopefully I can get back into the
discussions.

I am not a BARNER, but Carol Morrison sure is... I only have the Barner's
that marry into my Patillo/Pittillo line. I will forward this to Carol
and see if she has some more information.

I also want to add my personal praises of Carol Morrison. I have no idea
how many counties she heads, but she also heads the best
Hicks page around. She gives tirelessly of her research and
work. She is definitely my idol....

I will see what I can find out and post it to the list.

Thanks,

Lea		07/15/1997 5:23:04
Edward PoythressMarriage Records:
1811-1853 Mecklenburg County, VA

Edward Poythress and Mahaley Nance were married 10 Dec. 1828.
The minister was James Smith and surety was William Drumwright.

Barbara (BPW)		07/15/1997 6:29:01
Bill of Sale - Lewis PoythressRecorded 18 Oct. 1845
Bill of Sale on property from Lewis Poythress, Sr. to youngest sons, Lewis Y.
Poythress, Jr. and Thomas M. Poythress

Mecklenburg County Deed Book 31 1843-1845 Reel 15 p. 605

Know all men by these presents that I Lewis Poythress, Sr. for and
consideration of my natural estimation and love for my two youngest sons
Lewis and Thomas Poythress and in the further consideration of the sum of one
dollar to me in hand paid by them the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged
do give unto my sons above named one tract of land containing by estimation
one hundred and forty acres bounded as follows (virg) by the land of Charles
D. Cleaton and John Giles and David Poythress, Williamson Rainey Sr.,
together with one yoke of oxen, one cow and calf, oxcart, one box of
furniture, forever free from the claim or claims of all and any person
whatsoever upon the condition however that my said sons Lewis and Thomas do
bond themselves to keep me the said Lewis Poythress and my wife Rebecca
Poythress free from want the remainder of our lives from the adversity of the
above named land and other property. In testimony whereof I have here unto
set my hand and seal this 14th day of September 1845.
Lewis Poythress
Lewis Y. Poythress
Thomas M. Poythress

Barbara (BPW)		07/15/1997 6:29:08
Giles WillIn Edward Giles will he mentions under Item four: "I give and bequeath to my
Grand Daughter Martha Giles, Daughter of my Daughter Betsey P. Giles two
hundred dollars------".

Could Betsey be a daughter-in-law and the initial "P" stand for Poythress?

Barbara (BPW)

07/15/1997 6:29:24
Re: Important LinkageWhat is believe is that we have three Thomas Poythresses in a row.I,II,and
III. Thomas I is the father of Meredith, Thomas II, Sheriff of Burke Cty,GA,
and William, the last three Rev.Soldiers. The reason I believe this is that
the three sons all had children of an age - they were cohorts: Peter and
Cleaton; Lewis, George, Edward, Thomas III; and William , Jr., were of
the same generation - thus all were cousins and all grandsons of Thomas I,
lived in Brunswick County, VA , and had a ward or niece or granddaughter
named Elizabeth Edwards whose marriage Thomas I's son Meredith (brother of
Sheriff Thomas Poythress and William Poythress.)

We have the birthdate of Sheriff Thomas Poythress and I believe your
guess about the birthdate of his father, Thomas, is accurate. This puts us
back another generation to a THOMAS POYTHRESS, father of Meredith, Thomas
II, and William and probably others, including several daughters we don't
know about yet, and guardian of Miss Elizabeth Edwards. I do not believe
that Sheriff Poyathress of Burke County, GA, was the father of Meredith
Poythress who was born in Virginia and died in Screven County, Georgia.

After reading my message before this one, do you still think I can do
without Alice?

Martha

07/15/1997 7:30:38
Carol Morrison & BarnerAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

GREAT news. Carol Morrison has subscribed to our Poythress list. She has
quite a bit of Barner information up on her web page -- perhaps we can
start to untangle these closely allied families. Note that the land Thomas
& Martha Poythress sold to George Hicks (Rattlesnake) puts it very close to
the Fountains Creek location Maynard mentions in his recent post.

Best,

Al Tims

07/15/1997 8:20:55
Re: Important LinkageCharles NealCraig,

Thanks for the reminder of the "Jr" business to all of us. Good point!

BPN

07/15/1997 9:38:35
Edward Randolph Turnbull and Koutz's RaidCharles NealLyn, Thanks for sharing the story!
BPN

07/15/1997 9:38:39
Re: Important LinkageCraig....you are absolutely right....I thunk long and hard on the possiblity
of the Junior perhaps being "the younger" of almost any relationship...didn't
have any evidence in the slightest indicating he might be a "nominal" junior
so I deemed him a "junior" in reality. You're right...I postulated. But
given that with all this absence of facts its a percentage game I choose to
take 'em at their word. Should have qualified this. Thanks for the add on.

Maynard

07/15/1997 9:49:54
Martha Poythress -- wife of Thomas & moreAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison and I have exchanged some information on George Hicks and
Thomas Poythress. She just posted the following along with a read on
who George Hicks is. Will post the Hicks info separately. I will say that
it connects this George to Capt. Hicks, the HIll family and the Cleaton
family. Yes, the plot thickens...

The information below is directly relevant to our Thomas Poythress and his
wife. It also establishes that this property was roughly 5 miles due south
of Ft. Christanna on Rattlesnake Creek.

Enjoy this one,
Al Tims
- ----------------------------

This Indenture Made this Twentieth day of August One thousand Seven
hundred & ninety five Between Thomas Poythress of Brunswick County of
the one part & George Hicks of the same County of the other part
Witnesseth that for and in Consideration of the sum of Fifty pounds
Current Money of Virginia to me in Hand paid by the said George Hicks
the Receipt whereof I do hereby Acknowledge have Bargained & sold &
Confirmed & by these presents doth Bargain, sell & Confirm unto the said
George Hicks & his Heirs forever One certain Tract or parcel of Land
containing eighty five Acres more or less lying & being in the County
aforesaid & is bounded as follows (to wit) Beginning at Wesson's Corner
white Oak on Rattle snake Creek the white oak being down have made a
Corner of a Hickory thence by his line to a Corner Hiccory thence by
George Hearn's Line West to a Corner Red Oak on John Sewards line thence
by the said John Sewards Line to a Corner sweet Gum on the said Creek as
aforesaid thence by the Meanders of the said Creek to the Beginning To
have & to hold the said Land & other premises to the said George Hicks &
his heirs forever against the Claim & Demand of him the said Thomas
Poythress & his Heirs forever against the Claim of every other person or
persons forever unto the said George Hicks & to his Heirs forever In
Witness whereof I have hereunto set my Hand & Seal the Day & date first
above written.
Sealed Signed & Delivered
In the presents of
Thos. Poythress (LS)
Christr. Thrower
Henry Mangum Brunswick
County Court Septr. 28 1795
James Harrison Jr. This
Indenture of Bargain & sale
Jno. Green was
acknowledged by Thomas
Poythress party thereto to be his act & Deed and ordered to be recorded.

Teste

CB Jones CBC

Deed Book 16, pages 165, 166, Brunswick County, Virginia

----------
The Commonwealth of Virginia to James Fletcher and Thomas Washington
gentlemen Justices of Brunswick County Greeting whereas Thomas Poythress
and Martha his wife by their certain Indenture of Bargain and Sale
bearing date the 28th Day of August 1795 have sold and conveyed unto
George Hicks eighty five acres of Land with the appertenances lying &
being in the County of Brunswick and whereas the said Martha cannot
conveniently travel to our County Court of Brunswick to make
acknowledgment of the said Conveyance. Wherefore we do give unto you or
any two or more of you, power to Recieve the acknowledgment which the
said Martha shall be willing to make before you of the Conveyance
aforesaid Contained in the said Indenture which is hereunto annexed And
we do therefore command you, that you do personally go to the said
Martha & recieve her acknowledgment of the same, and examine her privily
and apart from the said Thomas her husband, whether she doth the same
freely and Voluntarily without his persuasions or Threats and whether
she be willing that the same should be Recorded in our County Court of
Brunswick aforesaid And when you have recieved her acknowledgments &
Examined her as aforesaid that you distinctly, plainly and openly
Certify us thereof in our said County Court under your hands & Seals
sending then there the said Indenture and this Writ Witness Charles B
Jones clerk of our said Court at the Court House this 14th day of Decr.
1796 In the 21st year of the Commonwealth.

CB Jones
By Virtue of this Commission to us directed we the Subscribers have
privily examined Martha Poythress wife of the within named Thomas
Poythress in manner & form as the said Commission requires &have
Recieved the acknowledgment of the Indenture hereunto annexed, which
said Indenture she acknowledged freely & Voluntarily without his
persuasions or threats and that she was willing the same should be
recorded in the County Court of Brunswick Certifyed under our hands &
Seales this 17th day of January 1797.

Jas. Fletcher (LS)

Thos. Washington (LS)

Brunswick County Court January 23rd 1797
This Commission for taking the acknowledgment & Privy examination of
Martha Poythress wife of Thos Poythress to an Indenture of bargain and
sale between Thos Poythress & Martha his wife of the one part & George
Hicks of the other part was returned together with a certificate of the
Execution thereof is ordered to be recorded

Teste

CB Jones CBC		07/15/1997 9:53:58
Lewis & Important LinkagesCharles NealBPW, thanks so much for adding the Lewis Bill of Sale. I, for one, also
appreciate having the document's citation at the beginning of the document
(like you did it) rather than having to read all the way down thru it, to
get to the county & date where it got recorded.

Martha, You are catching on much quicker than some of us did to Emailing.
I know you still feel the need for Alice to help you out, but believe me,
you are growing fast in your own capabilities. We can all see you've got
knowledge to share & this is the quickest way around to share it. Just ask
our other members of the retired generation if that's not so, eh folks?

Barbara Poythress Neal 7/15/97		07/15/1997 9:55:46
Re: Repost-Peter, son of MeredithLea et al....

Second the motion.....Carol Morrison has to be one of God's chullun. Her
creation is simply incredible.

Tell Carol she's got it by acclamation.

Best,

Maynard

07/15/1997 9:58:55
Re: Important LinkageOkay, what is birthdate of Burke Co. sheriff Thomas #2? I want to be
convinced about all those cousins....especially since it would go a long way
to explain how those guys just exploded on the censuses in a relatively
compact period.

Maynard		07/15/1997 10:07:08
Giles Will & Lewis' SaleCharles NealAl, in Lewis' Bill of Sale is mentioned a Williamson Rainey Sr. Didn't we
have something from/about a Rainey/Raney recently?

BPW, Yes, could well be that Betsey was a Poythress before marrying one of
Giles' sons, since Mr. Giles says "to my Grand Daughter Martha Giles,
Daughter of my Daughter Betsey P. Giles two hundred dollars------" I think
it is clear that Betsey's husband is a Giles (to have given the
grandaughter the last name of Giles)
BPN 7/15		07/15/1997 10:10:58
Re: Giles WillAlbert R. TimsBarbara,

What is the date of this will? Is it something we have?

Best,
Al
> In Edward Giles will he mentions under Item four: "I give and bequeath to
my
> Grand Daughter Martha Giles, Daughter of my Daughter Betsey P. Giles two
> hundred dollars------".
>
> Could Betsey be a daughter-in-law and the initial "P" stand for
Poythress?
>
>
> Barbara (BPW)

07/15/1997 10:30:32
George HicksAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison has helped us open a whole new arena for our study of Thomas
Poythress and the Poythress ties to the Cleaton, Hicks and related
families. I strongly urge you to visit her Brunswick Co. page again. In
particular, scroll down and review the Hick family information. She has a
wealth of primary source information. In fact, the entire web site is a
wonder to behold -- best GenWeb page you'll ever find. Amazing!

The link to Carol's Brunswick GenWeb page is:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/

The direct link to the Hicks family page is:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/hicks/index.html

The even more direct link to the deeds section where Carol has posted the
Thomas & Martha Poythress deed to George Hicks is:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/hicks/deeds/index.htm

As for George Hicks, Carol is someone cautious (always a good sign), but
she does tell us that:
"... I've now looked at the deed and can at least say that my "guess" is
that I'm pretty sure that he's the George Hicks who married Temperance
Hill. Now, I'm not really sure who he actually is, other than that, but
have been "told" that this is the son of George HICKS, and grandson of
Capt. Robert HICKS."

We have from Carol's post of a Clayton (assume Cleaton, as well) bible
record that:
John Clayton married Temperance Hill, December 15, 1776
Temperance Hill, born February 10, 1761; died July 17, 1799
Temperance Hill Clayton married George Hicks, May 20, 1783

Add to these records the following: (I don't have the full text of this --
perhaps Barbara Wolfe can provide it for us).

2 Mar 1796 John and Martha Cleaton sold 98 acres in Mecklenburg to Lewis
Poythress. Abstracted from Deed 10, page 62, Film #0032536 of Mecklenburg
County.

IF (BIG IF) this was sold for next to nothing, I "think" we might want to
explore the possibility that Thomas Poythress had died and Martha remarried
John Cleaton. DON'T RUN WITH THIS - just keep it as a possibility (remote,
at best).

Add the following and you'll see why I think things are starting to come
together:

1 Will of Cleton (sic) Poythress (1828) lists father as Meredith Poythress.
1800 Personal property list in M. shows Meredith with 2 taxable. Son
Peter indented -- between ages of 16 & 21.

2 John CLEATON sold 200 acres in M. to Edward GILES in 1778.
(Here we have a CLEATON - GILES connection established.)

4. Mecklenburg deed book entry for Pothres CLEATON in 1777. Again in 1779
- as POYTHRESS CLEATON. Both times in association with William
CLEATON.

5 Meredith POYTHRESS m. Edith CLEATON in 1781, William Cleaton father and
surety.

6. Lewis POYTHRESS m. Patsey GILES in 1793, with Meredith Poythress as
surety.

7. Nelly PRESTON m. John CLEATON in 1822.

8. Catherine PRESTON m. James E. POYTHRESS in 1828.

So, we have: Cleaton - Giles, Giles - Poythress, Cleaton - Poythress,
Cleaton -
Preston, and Poythress - Preston connections.

If we can combine our new Georgia information (thanks Martha!) with what
Carol Morrison, Lea Dowd, Lou Poole, John Baird, Lyn Baird and others of
you are adding to the base already developed by Bud Poythress, Maynard
Poythress, Barbara Poythress Neal and Barbara Wolfe ... Well, I think
we're going to have a major breakthrough before we know it. Thanks to all
of you! If we could just find a way to coax Carol into joining the
Poythress list . A fellow can dream ...

Best,
Al Tims		07/15/1997 10:51:46
Re: Important Linkage--Thos PoythressLet me try to differentiate more sharply the three THOMAS POYTHRESSES.
The first I know about was the man Meredith stated was his father, in
whose home resided the lady Elizabeth Edwards. I believe this first Thomas
died and was buried in Brunswick County, VA.

The second Thomas Poythress about whom I know was Meredith 's brother
who went to Georgia with Meredith and another brother William. I believe
Meredith died in Screven County and Thomas No.2 (who was the Sheriff) and
brother William Poythress died and were buried in Burke County.

Now, the third Thomas Poythress about whom I know signed himself Thomas
Poythress, Jr. on the petition on which appear the signatures of Jr's
brothers Edward and George. I believe the petitioners represented the entire
Militia unit in which these men served. I believe Thomas Poythress who
styled himself , Jr. left the area and I don't know where he died.

I believe that Patsey (Martha) was the sheriff's 2nd wife because of
the age difference in the brothers and my MEAPDO. Of course she could have
been a "caboose," in which she would have been a cherished child and
probably a great pet of all those brothers

Does this help?

Martha		07/15/1997 10:57:00
Re: Giles Will & Lewis' SaleAlbert R. TimsBPN wrote --
Al, in Lewis' Bill of Sale is mentioned a Williamson Rainey Sr. Didn't we
have something from/about a Rainey/Raney recently?

Well, Lyn Baird is chasing the Rainey surname. That we know for sure. I
found a William Rainey down in Sumter Co., Alabama in the 1830s, but Lyn
says he can't place the fellow just yet. Heck, this might mean something
to us down the line, but for not it is just an isolated item.

Closer to home -- I'm cherry picking the following from Carol Morrison's
page [again ;-)]. All of you following the great Poythress roundup in
Brunswick and Mecklenburg -- please note ALL the surnames -- not just the
Rainey surname. How this record got written without a Poythress mention
sure beats me :-).

Best,

Al Tims
---------------------------
Court for November 27, 1826. Suit in Chancery. Harrison Barner and John
Barner and others, plaintiffs against Joseph H. Travis and Wm. F. Brodnax,
Executors of John Barner, defendants.  This day this cause was docketed and
came on to be heard on the bill answer and exhibits heretofore filed in
this cause and it appearing to the court that the order of publication as
to the absent defendants, Benjamin Marrable and Lucy, his wife, has been
regularly inserted in the public newspaper and posted at the front door of
the courthouse of this county according to the order heretofore made in
this court by this court It is decreed and ordered that John Taylor, John
B. Thrower, Richard R. Browse, Robert Jones and James Seward or any three
of them do divide the slaves and the estate owned by John Barner the Elder
to his wife for life and which were not otherwise specifically disposed of
equally between the devisees of the testator that is to say that they allot
to William Harwell, Elizabeth P. Baugh late Harwell, Joseph Harwell, Martha
Harwell, wife of Samuel Harwell, Rebecca J. Dorch late Harwell, Nancy
Clauswell, late Harwell, John B. Harwell, Caroline A. Harwell, Mary Harwell
and Richard Harwell one fifth they being the children of Rebecca Harwell
late Barner, to Charles P. Cleaton, Catharine Rainey late Cleaton in right
of the said Catharine Thomas Cleaton, Benjamin Tanner and Elizabeth his
wife late Cleaton in right of the said Elizabeth, Jesse Rose and Edney his
wife late Cleaton in right of the said Edny, William B. Cleaton and
Parasade Cleaton, children of Elizabeth Cleaton late Barner, one fifth to
James Hicks, John B. Hicks, Isaac Hicks and Francis B. Hicks, sons of
Tabetha Hicks late Barner, one fifth and on fifth to Judith Pittello wife
of Littleton Pittello which said fifth is allotted her for life and to
revert to all her children after her children and to Benjamin and Lucy
Marable late Barner, the remaining fifth according to the will of the
testator in kind if it can be effected and make report thereof in order to
a final decree.

Order Book 31, page 381, Brunswick County, Virginia

Court for February 26, 1827. Suit in Chancery. Harrison Barner and John
Barner and others, plaintiffs against Joseph H. Travis and Wm. F. Brodnax,
Executors of John Barner, defendants. This day came the parties by their
counsel and the commissioners appointed to divided slaves. . . made the
following report to . . .allotted No. 1 to James Hicks, John B. Hicks,
Isaac Hicks and Francis B. Hicks, sons of Tabetha Hicks late Barner,
comprising of Phillis a Negro woman and Isaac an old Negro man valued at
$400.00. . . Lot #2 to Charles D. Cleaton and others in right of Elizabeth
Cleaton late Barner. . . Charles an old man and Tom a boy valued at
$400.00. . .Lot #3 to Benjamin and Lucy Marable late Barner. . . Fanny a
woman and child Earnined valued at $400.00. . . Lot #4 to William Harwell
and others in right of Rebecca Harwell (late Barner). . . Negro man named
George valued at $350.00. . . Lot #5 to Judith Pittello wife of Littleton
Pittello. . . (report dated December 9, 1826)

Order Book 31, page 434, Brunswick County, Virginia		07/15/1997 10:59:35
George HICKS and ALLIED family informationAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison has helped us open a whole new arena for our study of
Thomas
Poythress and the Poythress ties to the Cleaton, Hicks and related
families. I strongly urge you to visit her Brunswick Co. page again.
In
particular, scroll down and review the Hick family information. She has
a
wealth of primary source information. In fact, the entire web site is a
wonder to behold -- best GenWeb page you'll ever find. Amazing!

The link to Carol's Brunswick GenWeb page is:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/

The direct link to the Hicks family page is:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/hicks/index.html

The even more direct link to the deeds section where Carol has posted
the
Thomas & Martha Poythress deed to George Hicks is:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/hicks/deeds/index.htm

As for George Hicks, Carol is someone cautious (always a good sign), but
she does tell us that:
"... I've now looked at the deed and can at least say that my "guess" is
that I'm pretty sure that he's the George Hicks who married Temperance
Hill. Now, I'm not really sure who he actually is, other than that, but
have been "told" that this is the son of George HICKS, and grandson of
Capt. Robert HICKS."

We have from Carol's post of a Clayton (assume Cleaton, as well) bible
record that:
John Clayton married Temperance Hill, December 15, 1776
Temperance Hill, born February 10, 1761; died July 17, 1799
Temperance Hill Clayton married George Hicks, May 20, 1783

Add to these records the following: (I don't have the full text of this
--
perhaps Barbara Wolfe can provide it for us).

2 Mar 1796 John and Martha Cleaton sold 98 acres in Mecklenburg to Lewis
Poythress. Abstracted from Deed 10, page 62, Film #0032536 of
Mecklenburg
County.

IF (BIG IF) this was sold for next to nothing, I "think" we might want
to
explore the possibility that Thomas Poythress had died and Martha
remarried
John Cleaton. DON'T RUN WITH THIS - just keep it as a possibility
(remote,
at best).

Add the following and you'll see why I think things are starting to come
together:

1 Will of Cleton (sic) Poythress (1828) lists father as Meredith
Poythress.
1800 Personal property list in M. shows Meredith with 2 taxable. Son
Peter indented -- between ages of 16 & 21.

2 John CLEATON sold 200 acres in M. to Edward GILES in 1778.
(Here we have a CLEATON - GILES connection established.)

4. Mecklenburg deed book entry for Pothres CLEATON in 1777. Again in
1779
- as POYTHRESS CLEATON. Both times in association with William
CLEATON.

5 Meredith POYTHRESS m. Edith CLEATON in 1781, William Cleaton father
and
surety.

6. Lewis POYTHRESS m. Patsey GILES in 1793, with Meredith Poythress as
surety.

7. Nelly PRESTON m. John CLEATON in 1822.

8. Catherine PRESTON m. James E. POYTHRESS in 1828.

So, we have: Cleaton - Giles, Giles - Poythress, Cleaton - Poythress,
Cleaton -
Preston, and Poythress - Preston connections.

If we can combine our new Georgia information (thanks Martha!) with what
Carol Morrison, Lea Dowd, Lou Poole, John Baird, Lyn Baird and others of
you are adding to the base already developed by Bud Poythress, Maynard
Poythress, Barbara Poythress Neal and Barbara Wolfe ... Well, I think
we're going to have a major breakthrough before we know it. Thanks to
all
of you! If we could just find a way to coax Carol into joining the
Poythress list . A fellow can dream ...

Best,
Al Tims		07/15/1997 11:00:06
ReDinwiddieMarion & Helene PockrusMaynasrd, Here are all files available on the Dinwiddie subject in the FHL
in SLC, Utah. Also the 5 files on the Surname POYTHRESS.

Do you want other names checked for books on their sirname? I can
guarantee there are no Pockrus, but there may be other names I could check
& download.
Next, I guess you want St. George? Anyone want to vote?
Helene Pockrus		07/15/1997 11:09:00
Re: ReDinwiddieMarion & Helene PockrusI must be tired-Sorry for the mispelling!

----------
> From: Marion & Helene Pockrus
> To: VKRatliff@aol.com
> Cc: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: ReDinwiddie
> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 11:09 PM
>
> Maynard, Here are all files available on the Dinwiddie subject in the FHL
> in SLC, Utah. Also the 5 files on the Surname POYTHRESS.
>
> Do you want other names checked for books on their surname? I can
> guarantee there are no Pockrus, but there may be other names I could
check
> & download.
> Next, I guess you want St. George? Anyone want to vote?
> Helene Pockrus		07/15/1997 11:23:35
Re: Important Linkage--Thos PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

RE: Martha's 3 Thomas theory.

Your 3 Thomas explanation helps me understand your thinking. It makes
sense to me, but I am persuaded by Craig Scott's observation about cousins,
nephews, etc. to hold back just a tad.

Would it be your opinion that the Martha Poythress we see in the land
transaction from Thomas Poythress to George Hicks (1795, Brunswick) is not
the same Patsey(Martha) Poythress we find in Georgia? Or, are you
suggesting the Thomas & Martha we see selling land in Brunswick in 1795 is
your second Thomas Poythress -- who later became Sheriff?

I find your observations very interesting and helpful.

Best,
Al Tims		07/15/1997 11:24:25
Dennis BASSLea L. DowdYes, Dennis is a BASS. I have very little on him. But he will probably tie
into my line somewhere...

Lea
lea@gnat.net

Generation No. 1

1. DENNIS1 BASS died 1818 in Halifax Co., NC (Source: Halifax Co., NC WB
3:624).

More About DENNIS BASS:
: 13 Oct 1812, Will written (Source: Bell; Halifax Co. P. 5)
: 1818, Will probated; Halifax Co. Wit. J. Brumlow & Wm. Dancy Exr. Dr.
Isaac Edwards
: 1790, Mecklinburg Co., VA (Source: Bell; VA P. 4)
: 1791, to 1794 Brunswick Co., VA
: 1800, Personal Property Tax Mecklenburg Co., VA
: 23 Jun 1795, Charles Floyd vs Geo. Finch & Dennis Bass (Source: Brunswick
Co., VA OB 16:449)
(Charles Floyd is the brother to Elizabeth Floyd that married James
Patillo. Their daughter, Rebecca married John Hicks Bass, my 4th gr grf.
George Finch married Nancy Harrison Ivy on 22 Dec 1789)

: Rev. Soldier (Source: Rev. War Records, Vol. 1, Brumbaugh)

Child of DENNIS BASS is:
2. i. WILLIAM P.2 BASS.

Generation No. 2

2. WILLIAM P.2 BASS (DENNIS1). (Source: WB 3 P. 624 Halifax Co., NC)

Children of WILLIAM P. BASS are:
i. BENJAMIN D.3 BASS (Source: WB 3 P. 624 Halifax Co., NC).
ii. MARY A. BASS (Source: WB 3 P. 624 Halifax Co., NC).		07/16/1997 1:13:09
Re: BASSMarion & Helene PockrusThis board keeps playing around my names. I have a Thirsa Bass born 1820
who married into our HOLT Line in Chambers Co., AL 1841. Married Jesse
Holt. Anyone working with this name?
Helene		07/16/1997 2:06:46
Re: Dennis BASSAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Lea sent this (see below) in response to my query to her concerning the
following deed from Dennis BASS to Lewis POYTHRESS. Barbara Wolfe
speculates "probably Bass". Lea is confirming for us that Dennis is indeed
a BASS. Thanks Lea!

3 Nov 1813 Dennis Bafs (probably Bass) sold 33 acres to Lewis Poythress in
Mecklenburg County. Abstracted from Mecklenburg County Deeds.

If anyone has a full transcription -- I'd like to have it for the web page.
Thanks,

Best,
Al
----------
> From: Lea L. Dowd
>
> Yes, Dennis is a BASS. I have very little on him. But he will probably
tie
> into my line somewhere...
>		07/16/1997 2:57:57
VAUGHAN SurnameAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Lea Dowd's Southern Bass web page lists the following marriage.

Polly Bass m. James VAUGHAN 26-MAR-1804 Brunswick VA

This caught my eye because I seem to recall the Vaughan surname showing up
in a number of places of late. Do we see this surname in any of the
Carolina, Georgia or Florida records?

It is of further interest because Susan Peachy Poythress m. John VAUGHAN
Wilcox. Susan Peachy Poythress descends from three Joshua Poythresses in a
row.
Does anyone happen to know if James Vaughan connects in any fashion with
James Vaughan Willcox?

Thanks,

Al Tims		07/16/1997 3:03:56
Porthress - Bass MarriageAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I tell you, Lea's web page is a gold mine! Below is evidence of what
appears to be a Poythress - Bass marriage in North Carolina.

John BASS m. Julia POTRESS, 03-SEP-1866, Northampton NC

This is a little later than we've been working, but certainly worth
exploring.

Best,

Al Tims		07/16/1997 3:14:01
FW: George HicksMURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)I do not profess to be a an expert on the HICKS, I would believe that
Carol Morrison ranks right up there with Mrs. Carstairs Bracey and Mrs.
Pegues Lidwin, so take what I say with a grain of salt. [Carol got me
going with the copious amounts of her own HICKS collection].

I ramble.

Anyway, this is a quick pedigree on how I see the George HICKS who
married Temperance Hill Clayton. He would be the great grandson of CPT
Robert HICKS.

1] CPT Robert HICKS 1658 - 1739 m. 1st Winifred EVANS m. 2nd Frances d.
1744 [not all children listed]
2] George HICKS Sr. abt 1695 - abt 1762 m. Sarah [not all
children listed]
3] Cpt James HICKS 1728 - 1793 m. Judith Collier
4] Charles HICKS
4] John HICKS
4] Isaac HICKS
4] George HICKS m. Temperance Hill CLAYTON (dau
of John CLAYTON and Temperance HILL)
5] Martha Hill HICKS 1785 - 1809
5] Hannah HICKS 1788 - 1808
5] James Green HICKS 1790 -
5] John HICKS 1794 - 1813
5] George HICKS 1797-
4] Vines HICKS
4] Sarah (Sally) HICKS
4] James HICKS
4] Nancy Vines HICKS

The George HICKS that Al mentions, in his message below, is the son of
George HICKS Sr., the son of Cpt Robert HICKS. George HICKS Sr. went to
South Carolina and his son George HICKS Jr. was born 1730 Marlboro Co.,
SC, later becoming a Colonel during the American Revolution in SC.

We go back to Brunswick Co., VA, and George HICKS Sr.'s son James HICKS,
later a Captain in the Brunswick Co., militia, stays in Brunswick Co.,
choosing not to go with his father to SC. [It is really unknown to me
how many children stayed in VA]. James is the eldest son, as his father
gives him property, as shown in George HICKS Sr.'s will, His brother
George Jr. must buy this property from him later. [This is hearsay as I
do not have a copy of George Hicks Sr.'s will at this time]

Below is a Will of Captain James HICKS Sr. that will show the naming of
the children:

From the papers of Mrs. Carstairs Bracey and Mrs. Virginia Pegues
Lidwin:

HICKS, James of Brunswick County written March 20, 1789. Probated Dec
23, 1793. To wife Judith the use of my house and plantation whereon I
now live and all the land on the north side of the creek, also the use
of four negroes, Cyrus, Izbell, Daniel, and Tab, also 2 mairs, namely,
the old sorrel and Dill, 6 head of cattle, 2 sows & piggs, 6 ewes, 2
beds & furniture, 1 cubbard and her equal part of all the other
household furniture of every sort, kitchen utensils, during her
widowhood, at death or marriage to be equally divided among all my
children then living; to son Charles 100 acres joining the land whereon
he now lives to son John, 2 negroes, Dick & Sarai; to son Isaac,
L120:0:0 instead of a negro named Dick, also 860 acres in Mecklenburg
Co. on Stith's Creek; to son GEORGE 1/2 of my little creek land to be
divided across the land from east to west, during his life and after his
death to return to my son Vines Hicks; to daughter Sally Hardaway
L30:0:0 curr.; to son James the plantation whereon he now lives and all
my land from Peterson's line on s. side of the creek to a branch below
. . . etc. [ I did not finish so as to shorten the message, and I did
not feel like typing anymore]
Three sons Charles, John, Isaac, exors. Wit: Myhill Collier, Zachr.
Floyd, Chislen Curtis. [Brunswick County, Virginia Will Book 5, page
518.]

The following is a land transaction identifying Temperance and George as
husband and wife, and shows his father James Sr, brothers, James Jr.,
Charles, and Vines Hicks, as mentioned in the above will.

From my collection of HICKS material:

George Hicks and wife Temperance of Brunswick County to James Hicks, Sr.
and Charles Hicks of Brunswick Co. 850 L curr. 828 acres in Brunswick
County on Waters of Little Jenito creek and Hicks creek, adjoining
Blewes, Floyds creek, the old ford, horse ford road. Wit. James Hicks,
Jr., Vines Hicks, March 1, 1791. Recd. June 27, 1791 - Deed Book 15,
page 97.

I hope this helps. If anyone wants the complete will, I will be
delighted to finish typing it up for you.

Paul Murauskas

> ----------
> From: Albert R. Tims[SMTP:atims@minn.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 6:51 PM
> To: Poythress Genealogy List
> Subject: George Hicks
>
> Poythress List,
>
> Carol Morrison has helped us open a whole new arena for our study of
> Thomas
> Poythress and the Poythress ties to the Cleaton, Hicks and related
> families. I strongly urge you to visit her Brunswick Co. page again.
> In
> particular, scroll down and review the Hick family information. She
> has a
> wealth of primary source information. In fact, the entire web site is
> a
> wonder to behold -- best GenWeb page you'll ever find. Amazing!
>
> The link to Carol's Brunswick GenWeb page is:
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/
>
> The direct link to the Hicks family page is:
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/hicks/index.html
>
> The even more direct link to the deeds section where Carol has posted
> the
> Thomas & Martha Poythress deed to George Hicks is:
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/hicks/deeds/index.htm
>
> As for George Hicks, Carol is someone cautious (always a good sign),
> but
> she does tell us that:
> "... I've now looked at the deed and can at least say that my "guess"
> is
> that I'm pretty sure that he's the George Hicks who married Temperance
> Hill. Now, I'm not really sure who he actually is, other than that,
> but
> have been "told" that this is the son of George HICKS, and grandson of
> Capt. Robert HICKS."
>
> We have from Carol's post of a Clayton (assume Cleaton, as well) bible
> record that:
> John Clayton married Temperance Hill, December 15, 1776
> Temperance Hill, born February 10, 1761; died July 17, 1799
> Temperance Hill Clayton married George Hicks, May 20, 1783
>
> Add to these records the following: (I don't have the full text of
> this --
> perhaps Barbara Wolfe can provide it for us).
>
> 2 Mar 1796 John and Martha Cleaton sold 98 acres in Mecklenburg to
> Lewis
> Poythress. Abstracted from Deed 10, page 62, Film #0032536 of
> Mecklenburg
> County.
>
> IF (BIG IF) this was sold for next to nothing, I "think" we might want
> to
> explore the possibility that Thomas Poythress had died and Martha
> remarried
> John Cleaton. DON'T RUN WITH THIS - just keep it as a possibility
> (remote,
> at best).
>
> Add the following and you'll see why I think things are starting to
> come
> together:
>
> 1 Will of Cleton (sic) Poythress (1828) lists father as Meredith
> Poythress.
> 1800 Personal property list in M. shows Meredith with 2
> taxable. Son
> Peter indented -- between ages of 16 & 21.
>
> 2 John CLEATON sold 200 acres in M. to Edward GILES in 1778.
> (Here we have a CLEATON - GILES connection established.)
>
> 4. Mecklenburg deed book entry for Pothres CLEATON in 1777. Again
> in 1779
> - as POYTHRESS CLEATON. Both times in association with William
> CLEATON.
>
> 5 Meredith POYTHRESS m. Edith CLEATON in 1781, William Cleaton
> father and
> surety.
>
> 6. Lewis POYTHRESS m. Patsey GILES in 1793, with Meredith
> Poythress as
> surety.
>
> 7. Nelly PRESTON m. John CLEATON in 1822.
>
> 8. Catherine PRESTON m. James E. POYTHRESS in 1828.
>
> So, we have: Cleaton - Giles, Giles - Poythress, Cleaton - Poythress,
> Cleaton -
> Preston, and Poythress - Preston connections.
>
> If we can combine our new Georgia information (thanks Martha!) with
> what
> Carol Morrison, Lea Dowd, Lou Poole, John Baird, Lyn Baird and others
> of
> you are adding to the base already developed by Bud Poythress, Maynard
> Poythress, Barbara Poythress Neal and Barbara Wolfe ... Well, I think
> we're going to have a major breakthrough before we know it. Thanks to
> all
> of you! If we could just find a way to coax Carol into joining the
> Poythress list . A fellow can dream ...
>
> Best,
> Al Tims
>
>
>
>		07/16/1997 3:18:39
Re: BASSAh.....Helene.....you have to watch those folks on this board...betcha they
are just making those people up from time to time to tease you ;).

Maynard

07/16/1997 3:53:35
Re: Porthress - Bass MarriageLea L. DowdIf any one can figure out WHICH John Bass this is, please let me know. I
have too many John's in the same place at the same time...

Thanks,
Lea
lea@gnat.net

At 04:14 PM 7/16/97 -0500, Albert R. Tims wrote:
>Poythress List,
>
>I tell you, Lea's web page is a gold mine! Below is evidence of what
>appears to be a Poythress - Bass marriage in North Carolina.
>
>John BASS m. Julia POTRESS, 03-SEP-1866, Northampton NC
>
>This is a little later than we've been working, but certainly worth
>exploring.
>
>Best,
>
>Al Tims
>
>		07/16/1997 5:32:06
Catching up with y'allJAMES L. POOLEI've been "down" a few days setting up and transferring everything over to
a new computer. I've a few things to offer on the message traffic that
accumulated while I was down.

Last week I mentioned a very good reference (at least I think so): Lutz's
"Hopewell, and the Prince George History." Actually, I have copied the
recommended pages into a file, which I am willing to share with the
interested readers of the list. I've specifically asked Al not to post
this file on the web page, because it is too much a straight copy with
little to "no value added" (though I did fully credit the author, source,
etc.) If you would like a copy, I'll be happy to send it to you via an
email attachment. But there's a catch (isn't there always?). You must be
able to accept it zipped (it's pretty big), and you must be able to use it
in Microsoft Word 6.0/7.0/95 (they're all the same) for MS Word 97 format.
Just send me an email requesting it, and I'll reply with the attachment.
(And please be patient. If I receive more than just a few requests, it
will take a while to get the copies transmitted.)

Regarding the new interest in the Vaughan name -- yep, that's another one
that Lea and I share and have connections with. The Vaughan family was
originally located (as early as I can trace them) in Lunenburg County --
the progenitor was a James Vaughan who left a will in Lunenburg dated 1740
or 1749. They are allied by marriage (at least my line) with the Ingrams,
the Moodys, and through them to the Worshams and the Epes. (Small world
wasn't it, down there in southside Va?). Though I don't have records of
any of the names mentioned in the recent posts, a VERY good reference is
Parks' "Francis Moody (1769-1821), His Ancestors, Descendants, and Related
Families."

With regard to the Flowerdew options, Maynard, I agree with your
recommendation on Option #2 as the "class" option.

Lou		07/16/1997 5:41:41
Known Members of Virginia Indian CompanyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

According to Leonidas Dodson's "Alexander Spotswood: Governor of
Colonial Virginia 1719-1722" (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania
Press,
1933, p. 86)

Those know to have been members of the Virginia Indian Company are:
John Baylor, Peter Beverley, Arthur Bickerdale, Richard Bland,
Charles Chiswell, William Cocke, William Cole, William Dandridge, Cole
Digges, Nathaniel Harrison, John Holloway, Robert Innes, Henry Irwin,
Thomas Jones,Edmund Kearney, Thomas Nelson, Mann Page,
William Robertson, Alexander Spotswood, and E. Walker.

Also, according to Dodson, subscriptions (stock) in the Virginia Indian
Company could be purchased for L50 to L100. A 1981 unpublished version of
a manuscript by Mary Beaudry of Boston University (Submitted for
publication in The Comparative Archaeology of European Colonialism, Stephen
Dyson [ed]] titled Colonizing the Virginia frontier: Fort Christanna and
Governor Spottswood's Indian Policy states:

"Most of the powerful independent traders already engaged in the Indian
trade declined to subscribe and used their influence to prevent others from
doing so. At the close of the prescribed period of subscription, no one
had purchased stock."

Spotswood apparently had to make personal appeals to the leaders of the
colony to raise enough money to form the company. I do not know why Capt.
Hicks is not mentioned in the list above. With more study, I'm sure we'll
come to understand why or why not.

NB -- Thanks to Paul Murauskas who sent me a collection of articles (all
the way from Germany) on Ft. Christanna. As I continue to study the
material I will post items I believe to be of general interest. The
bibliographies suggest there is enough information to keep us busy for
quite some time.

Best,

Al Tims		07/16/1997 6:38:39
Raneywayne scruggsPoythress List:
If you already have this message please excuse this. Lighting shut down
my computer and I'm not sure if this went out.Yes, there was mention of
a Raney before. Mrs. Elizabeth P.Raney was the great granddaughter of
John Speed who was born 2-5-1714. He lived in Mecklenburg Co,Va. He
married Mary Minetry Taylor in Surrey,Va. 10-6-1737. Mrs.Raney lived in
Kittrel N.C. Her mother was a daughter of Sarah Speed Hansard, who was a
daughter of John Speed. John Speed also had a son John Speed, born in
Va. 8-3-1738. He married Sarah Baird in Va. in 1763.There was a Speed's
church in Mecklenburg about a mile from the old homestead. This was
built by the first John Speed I mentioned. When it was torn down, the
new one was called St Andrews Church.This is confirmed in Bishop Meade's
" Old Families of Va."I wish I knew more about Sarah Baird, so we could
tie this Speed/Baird/Poythress thing together.By the way Maynard, I also
vote for Option #2.

Judy		07/16/1997 6:40:01
RE: Known Members of Virginia Indian CompanyJAMES L. POOLEGreat find, Al -- or does the credit go to Paul? The list of members
is indeed interesting, and may blow a big hole in my theory. Maybe
Peter Poythress and John Wall, at least, were among those who opposed
this obviously blatant attempt at creating a cartel. Or maybe they
were not officially members, but more like employees. Capt. Hicks
was almost certainly the latter, which is why he'd probably not be on
the list.

My opinion....

Lou

On Wednesday, July 16, 1997 7:39 PM, Albert R. Tims
[SMTP:atims@minn.net] wrote:
>
> Spotswood apparently had to make personal appeals to the leaders of
> the
> colony to raise enough money to form the company. I do not know
why
> Capt.
> Hicks is not mentioned in the list above. With more study, I'm
sure
> we'll
> come to understand why or why not.
>		07/16/1997 6:48:36
Re: Porthress - Bass MarriageLea....I can sympathize with you...but not too much....you got an overload of
John's...try an overload of Johns, Francises, Thomases, Joshuas. If you ever
break the code, share it would you ;).

Maynard

07/16/1997 7:34:29
Saints List/DinwiddieHelene: I'm not too well informed on ordering stuff from Saints so help me
pls.

I presume these "download files" added together comprise the "master list" of
what Saints in SLC have for Dinwiddie County and we just use this as a check
list for going to local FHC and ordering specific titles, right? Could I
have gotten this same info at my local FHC and downloaded it onto a disk and
taken it home? Or ordered the "publication" on the spot? And does the final
stuff come on CD-ROM which would be like dying and goin' to heaven since I'm
fairly sure one can highlight and copy to a floppy at most local FHC's....or
do you get microfilm and transcribe it by hand?

If so, doesn't seem fair to offload this dog onto you but on the other hand,
all 36 of us don't need to be going to FHC's for indexes.

Was it just the contemplation of all the other zillion Va. counties that made
it seem
a monster? Now that we have Dinwiddie, I surely think the absolute max of
what we might ultimately want would be additonally: Charles City County,
Prince George County, Brunswick, Surry, Lunenburg, and Mecklenburg...6
counties making 7 total with Dinwiddie. That would likely keep us busy for
years. And I think if we got it all in "one site" we could jointly peck away
at the list without duplicating all the copying, etc.

I guess I know so little about Saints' library I'm asking is 7 counties more
of a bear than you want to tackle or is it something you are willing to do?
If its a bear (and it
IS available and local FHC's) then we could split it up.

Enlighten me, would you? Thanks.

Maynard		07/16/1997 7:59:55
VAUGHAN SurnameCharles NealI don't recall seeing the Vaughan surname anywhere related to Poythress
folks before, and I kinda think I would have recalled it if I had, since I
grew up with a Vaughan friend in Birmingham, AL, who descended from a
distant GODFREY relative of mine.

BPN 7/16/97		07/16/1997 9:30:39
Re: Important Linkage--Thos PoythressCharles NealMartha,

You are making great strides in Emailing.
Appreciate greatly your clarification on this knot of THOMASes.

Maybe I'm dense tonight, but could you please clarify for me who/what you
are referring to when in 2 messages you said "my little MEAPDO" ?

Thanks in advance (or "TIA" in Email terminology)
BPN 7/16/97		07/16/1997 9:30:41
Flowerdew HundredCharles NealI vote for #2. We can easily afford to wait a month before doing anything
to connect to Flower Dew Hundred, since we have plenty going on right now.

BPN		07/16/1997 9:30:43
Re: BASS/POCKRUSMarion & Helene PockrusWouldn't surprise me in the least! They are all around me! Holt
connections, Bass connections and no POCKRUS. Next it'll be my Hancock
connections and Arrants.
Helene

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: BASS
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 3:53 PM
>
> Ah.....Helene.....you have to watch those folks on this board...betcha
they
> are just making those people up from time to time to tease you ;).
>
> Maynard		07/16/1997 10:16:07
Re: FW: George HicksLea L. DowdPaul,

I just wanted to say that I agree with your chart 100%. However, I also
want to mention that among the top HICKS researchers, you have to include
my cousin Patti Silvestri. It is her work alone that separated the Robert
Hicks in Brunswick and even found Capt. Robert Hicks and my John Hicks' of
Brunswick Co., VA father, Robert Hicks, Sr., the Taylor.

She and Carol have both known that reading original legal records and court
order books will supply the answers. I will add my "concerns" that there
is possibly another James HICKS that has been overlooked, co-mingled or not
placed. I cannot prove this as yet, but I do feel that it is a very good
possibility.

I am truly honored to be on a list with such wonderful researchers. Again
I don't know how you do it from Germany, but you are terrific.

Lea
lea@gnat.net		07/16/1997 10:17:56
Re: Thos Poythress 1, 2, & 3Maynard,

I am reluctant to create a chart because I do not have my records for
reference. First of all, as I am sure you know, the first census for Georgia
is the l820 census -the earlier ones were burned by the British in l8l2.
But, here goes!

THOMAS POYTHRESS I m. Martha ? Brunswick Cty, VA (sold to
Hicks)

THOMAS POYTHRESS II (Sheriff Burke Cty
b.Bruns.Cty,VA d. Burke Cty m. lst ? 2nd. Martha ? his son
was

THOMAS POYTHRESS III styled himself Thomas Poythress, Jr.

on the Nobles Petition (along with his father and brothers
George and
Edward.)

Check the Poythress Chronology I sent you. Wasn't the Sheriff , Thomas
II, dead by l795? validating that Thomas I in Brunswick Cty deed to Hicks?
Meredith can prove that Thomas P. I is his father. I can't prove that
Meredith is a brother to either Thomas, Sheriff or to William Poythress.
Meredith bought and sold land to John Carter Poythress several times. But,
in none of the transactions was a relationship mentioned.

Best regards, Martha		07/16/1997 10:28:20
SubscribePattiHear you have the best list server on the net. Don't want to miss a thing
were people are doing and discussing original research.

Patti
patti@rivcom.net

07/16/1997 10:47:22
Re: Vaughan surnameW. David SamuelsenActually, you will need to go back earlier - to the Batte line, there is
a Vaughn tie in at that point.

Henry Batte's material grandmother was Elizabeth Vaughan, daughter of
Richard Vaughan, Bishop of Chester (England)

Elizabeth Vaughan married Thomas Mallory. Their daughter Martha
Katherine Mallory married John Batte and son was Henry Batte who was
grandfather of Elizabeth Poythress, wife of John Fitzgerald.
(Elizabeth's parents were John and Mary (Batte) Poythress)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W. David Samuelsen
Will Testators Indexes Online
Visit http://www.wasatch.com/~dsam/sampubco/sampubco.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/16/1997 11:06:30
FW: FW: George HicksMURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)Lea and POYTHRESS list,

Please forgive my ineptitude for not including Lea Dowd's cousin Patti
Sylvestri as a top HICKS researcher. It appears I am ill-mannered.

I was basically expressing that my humble little HICKS research cannot
compare to those I had mentioned. And really, I can only comment on
those HICKS researchers I have heard from or dealt with, even though Lea
told me awhile ago about Patti, I just didn't realize how very important
her contributions have been.

Your "humbled" and obedient servant,

Paul Murauskas
g3socsgm@hq.c5.army.mil

> ----------
> From: Lea L. Dowd[SMTP:lea@gnat.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 6:17 PM
> To: MURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)
> Cc: Poythress Genealogy List
> Subject: Re: FW: George Hicks
>
> Paul,
>
> I just wanted to say that I agree with your chart 100%. However, I
> also
> want to mention that among the top HICKS researchers, you have to
> include
> my cousin Patti Silvestri. It is her work alone that separated the
> Robert
> Hicks in Brunswick and even found Capt. Robert Hicks and my John
> Hicks' of
> Brunswick Co., VA father, Robert Hicks, Sr., the Taylor.
>
> She and Carol have both known that reading original legal records and
> court
> order books will supply the answers. I will add my "concerns" that
> there
> is possibly another James HICKS that has been overlooked, co-mingled
> or not
> placed. I cannot prove this as yet, but I do feel that it is a very
> good
> possibility.
>
> I am truly honored to be on a list with such wonderful researchers.
> Again
> I don't know how you do it from Germany, but you are terrific.
>
> Lea
> lea@gnat.net
>
>
>		07/16/1997 11:27:03
Flowerdew HundredI had a long chat this morning with Director Libbie Myrick. She is excited
and pleased that we want to include Flowerdew on our page. The reason she
has not responded to my letter is that they are in the process of having
their own page "built". They are deferring all decisions on web matters until
they see what they end up with.

In general, they have contracted for a full depth (multi-page, multi-color)
site. It will have ongoing updates on coming events. It will feature a
broadbrush history of the place that will advertise the "history" of
Flowerdew more than in the past. They feel their focus until now on just the
archaeology may NOT have had the most positive effect on their "gate". The
inference that I drew is that the tourist traffic goes down that "plantation
route" for history.....and archaeology is not the most gripping of magnets.
Flowerdew has learned that.

Libbie also reports that their attendence is growing at a very satisfactory
pace. They are building an addition to the museum. They only have room to
display perhaps a third of their 200,000 Flowerdew items and plan a program
to rotate exhibits.

We arrived at two options and Libbie was quite comfortable with either:

1) that we devise our own Flowerdew related page, using the windmill (one
color line drawing, very simple) as a graphic since it almost amounts to
being their "logo". The drawing was on the front of a note card they gave
away to contributors a couple of years ago. I have a copy of this note card.
We would submit the page for their approval. It would be our stand-alone
heavy-Poythress sub-page and whether or not to link to Flowerdew would be our
choice.

2) that we devise our own Flowerdew page to incorporate the windmill and text
MAKING the Poythress connection but also EMPHASIZING a link from our page to
their's at the end of our "short story". This, of course, requires that we
wait until Flowerdew is up and running with their own page (estimated 30
days). Submit to them for approval.

My thoughts:

Just about anything we do that is in good taste is very likely to be
acceptable to them. Option 2 requires that we wait the estimated 30 days
until their site is up and running which is a minor negative. A plus for
option 2 is that we will get our viewers to the Flowerdew pages which will
have extensive, multi-color graphics. These pages will also be "current" and
intended to be an actual soft-sell for visiting Flowerdew and its upcoming
attractions. They may even make their own Flowerdew page interactive in some
minor way.

Option 2 would probably eliminate any chance that we might be seen negatively
and in some way to be competing with their page. This notion is of course
preposterous but non-profit boards are both keepers and givers of paranoia.

I'm inclined to opt for # 2. We will look sophisticated "by association" with
FD's multi-colored show biz and proud to make it part of our schtick. With
the "link" we associate ourselves more directly with FD in support of their
efforts (on their terms) and this contribution would seem to just be the
right thing to do.

Do I hear a motion? Discussion? In any case we will also need a PC guru
volunteer for the technicals. And a volunteer for the text....whether all we
use is the "front page" with text along side the graphic or whether we have a
Poythress FD history sub-page which can be more extensive and deal at greater
length with the Poythress aspects....and perhaps be so well done and orginal
that the FD docents would be inclined to pass our web "address" to visitors
who ask for more information.

Maynard		07/16/1997 12:03:34
Re: Important Linkage--Thos PoythressHi! thanks for all the input. It is very encouraging.

Maybe, I can cut this Gordian knot - maybe not.

If the Thomas II, Sheriff, and wife, "Patsey" had sold the land, their
deed would drawn in Burke County and notarized - as Peter Poythress' deed
to ____ Cleaton was drawn in Screven. After all, Thomas II and Patsey were
residents of Georgia and not of Virginia. Look at that deed. If it says
Thomas Poythress of Brunswick Cty, Virginia, then it was sold by Thomas I and
his wife whose name was Martha.

I understand why my little MEAPDO was called Elizabeth . If the
people who placed her monument had not put that "M" next, I never would have
been able to tie her to George and Martha and Edward who are listed as
orphans of Thomas Poythress and entitled to draw in the l805 GA land lottery.
My grandmother was named Amanda Jane Elizabeth and Alice's middle name is
Elizabeth, ;last Anne,

So it would seem that Thomas I's wife, at the time of the 1795 sale of
land, was also Martha. She well may have been his second wife.

All the best, Martha (who else!!!!!)		07/16/1997 12:06:09
John PortreesIf we accept this variant then it looks like somebody beat our boys to
Georgia:

Will of John Portrees 15 August, 1773

In the Name of God Amen----I John Portrees, Schoolmaster residing at present
in the Province of Georgia in North-America, being at present blessed by God,
in good health, and of sound and disposing mind and memory, but not knowing
at what hour I may hear my Master�s Call, for which the good Lord prepares
me; I do make this my last Will and Testament in manner and form following,
viz. Imprimis. I commit my Body to the Ground in joyful hope of a
Resurrection to eternal life thro� Jesus Christ; and my Spirit I commend into
the Hands of a merciful God who gave it, trusting and relying on the mercy of
Jesus Christ my Savior for my Redemption...........My Will is,
that my Body may be decently buried where I lived and with very little cost
by my Executor hereinafter mentioned, and all my Debts paid......Item, I do
hereby give and bequeath all my Effects, whether Money, Bonds, Mortgages,
Notes, Accounts, Books, Paper, Debts and everything else whatever belonging
to me at my Decease, the same to be for the sole Uses and benefit of Mr.
Edward Langworthy Schoolmaster in Savannah in the said Province, to him and
his Heirs for ever, whom also I do hereby appoint to be my sole
Executor of this my last Will and Testament, and I do hereby utterly revoke,
disannul all former Bequests, Wills, and Legacies by me heretofor in any wise
left (?) or made, declaring, ratifying and confirming this and no other to be
my Last Will and Testament. In Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand
and seal this fifteenth day of August in this Year of our Lord one thousand
seven hundred and seventy three.

John Portrees (ls)

Signed, sealed, published, pronounced and declared by the within Testator
John Porthrees to be his last Will and Testament wrote with his own hand, in
the presence of us, who at his request and in each other�s presence
subscribed our Names George Fox
Peter Axe

Georgia
Before his excellency Archibald Bulloch Esquire President and Commander in
Chief of the said province and Ordinary of the same...personally appeared
George Fox of the Parish of Christ Church in the province aforesaid, planter
one of the subscribing witnesses to the within written Last Will and
Testament of John Portrees of the same parish Schoolmaster deceased and who
being duly sworn on the Holy Evangelists of Almighty God made oath that he
was present and did see the said Testator sign seal publish and pronounce and
declare the same to be and Contain his Last Will and Testament, and that he
was of sound and Disposing mind and memory to the best of his knowledge and
belief, and that he with Peter Axe subscribed their names as witnesses to the
said Will at the request and in the precense of the said Testator and in each
others presence----

At the same time Edward Langworthy, Executor named in the said
Will Qualified as such......

Given under my hand the day of
1776

Telemon Cuyler Collection, Ms 1170
Box 38G �Bulloch 5E�
Hargrett Rare Book & Manuscript Library
The University of Georgia
Athens, Georgia 30602-1641
Transcribed from photocopy 17 July, 1997
John M. Poythress

[note: �wrote with his own hand� is true; and it is
a handwriting clear in every respect and easily
transcribed]		07/17/1997 2:02:07
Thomases 1,2 & 3Hey, Martha, I apologize...I wasn't asking for a chart on the spot...you are
at the beach to have a good time, remember...and this stuff gets to be grubby
work sometimes. I should have been clearer and said when you get back to
your records and if or when its convenient. Please forgive me, I wouldn't do
that to you on purpose.

I won't put you at the disadvantage of not having your records but I will try
to take advantage of "the medium" of e-mail to cram about a years worth of
correspondence into a week. And if you are so inclined, when you return home
we can continue via correspondence..... unless of course we make a
"convert" out of you about
computers and modems.

Anyway, couple of thoughts:

1. Since I think the whole world is in agreement on the subject of Thomas,
Jr. or
Thomas III or whatever we call him, lets take him off the board and boil our
problem down to the "one or two Thomases" matter on the "front end".

2. I like the way you went at it in your last e-mail. When there is not
enough paper information to wad a shotgun in the first place, its often just
as important to establish where a person COULD NOT be and sort of back one's
way into giving "value" to the alternative on the basis of both probability
AND possibility. You have good instincts for that sort of thing and watching
you do it has helped me. After all, you have been doing this stuff all your
life and I'm only five years into it so I need all the help I can get.

I'll put your theory back up on the board so we can work with it:

THOMAS POYTHRESS I m. Martha ? Brunswick Cty, VA (sold to
Hicks)

THOMAS POYTHRESS II (Sheriff Burke Cty
b.Bruns.Cty,VA d. Burke Cty m. lst ? 2nd. Martha ? his son
was

THOMAS POYTHRESS III styled himself Thomas Poythress, Jr.

on the Nobles Petition (along with his father and brothers
George and
Edward.)

Check the Poythress Chronology I sent you. Wasn't the Sheriff , Thomas
II, dead by l795? validating that Thomas I in Brunswick Cty deed to Hicks?
Meredith can prove that Thomas P. I is his father. I can't prove that
Meredith is a brother to either Thomas, Sheriff or to William Poythress.
Meredith bought and sold land to John Carter Poythress several times. But,
in none of the transactions was a relationship mentioned.

I'm not quite ready to be a "two Thomas" guy yet....at least not based on
that August 1, 1795 transaction in which Thomas Poythress sold 85 acres to
George HIcks.

If Sheriff Thomas, Sr. is indeed dead by 1795 and and there is a Thomas
selling land in Brunswick County with his wife Martha present....then I think
its a cinch we have ourselves TWO Thomases. I surrender.

However, I don't think that IS the case and, moreover, the circumstances
outlined in the 1795 deed and the "trailing" paperwork sort of ( I say "sort
of")make it look very, very possible that Sherriff Thomas is indeed one of
the principles in that 1795 Brunswick transaction while wife Martha (probably
the "only" Martha) is sitting back home in Burke County.

My....theory, I guess I call it (it's all fact but I'm stretching it a bit):

First, Sheriff Thomas died in late 1800 (not "before 1795"). Burke County
history records him as sherriff "October 21, 1799 - 1800 died". Timing
supported in part by
George P. and Patsy P. doing the will administration 10 Nov 1801 (I say "in
part" in recognition that it was not terribly unusual to administrate a will
several years after the death of the principle). But in any case, its a lock
that he was not dead in 1795.

Second, lets look at the dates in that 1795 deed carefully (I'll send you a
copy right after this e-mail) and I will take some liberties with the
"dialogue" to make it fit dates that are only slightly awry. Lets pretend:

1) Thomas (sheriff to be) is at home in Georgia with wife Martha in spring of
1795 and he has about decided that the home in Georgia is here to stay and he
is not getting any younger. Lets call him 55...after all he will still be
vigorous enough in 1797 to take the sheriff's job. Thomas figures he might as
well sell that 85 acres left in Virginia and get it off his mind by
converting it to cash so Martha won't have to fuss with it after he dies(or
maybe they just need the money).

2) Thomas goes to Virginia, finds George Hicks and makes a verbal deal on
August 20, 1795 to sell Hicks the 85 acres for 50L.

3) They go to Brunswick clerk Charles B. Jones on Sept. 28. Jones writes it
up and dutifully records it. Thomas has his money and Robert has his 85
acres in Brunswick County. Thomas likely goes home to Burke County.

3) Somehow (maybe Hicks tries to resell the land) it is discovered over a
year later in the fall of 1796 that Thomas' title to the property is
deficient inasmuch as Martha has dower rights to the property. Her daddy
gave it to her for a wedding present or something. Unless Martha is willing
to release "the indenture" the sale is void and Thomas has to refund the
50L.

4) Thomas is summoned back to Brunswick County (a very unhappy camper).
Clerk Jones (Dec. 14, 1796) says "this August deed is no good because your
title was deficient. (so he cited August and it should have been
September...but shoot, it was over a year ago). Jones: "give me a couple of
names for your Burke County court officials". Thomas: Well, James Fletcher
and Thomas Washington. Jones: okay, since "said Martha cannot conveniently
travel to our County Court of Brunswick" then you (Thomas) take this document
home, I have addressed it to Fletcher and Washington. Get them to "examine
her [Martha] privily" and "apart" from you and get a release of her dower
rights/indenture.

5) Thomas gets back home, gets all the red tape done, and on January 17 takes
the certified release (actually, relief of indenture) from Fletcher and
Washington and trudges through the snow all the way back to Brunswick Court
with the document.

6) On January 23 clerk Jones says "okay, we're all legal now" so I will
record it. My guess is that Thomas huffs out of the court muttering a few
things under his breath.

Now....it this a fairy tale? Well, sure. But its certainly possible. And
it allows for only one Brunswick Thomas b. ca 1740 Va. d. 1800 Sheriff of
Burke County, Georgia
leaving a widow named Martha (nickname Patsy) who is the only Martha in the
scene.

Is this one bullet-proof ? Absolutely not. We still have the following
problems:

1) where did MEAPDO* come from? A "caboose" (I loved your term) is possible
but only remotely so. Martha would have to be younger than Thomas by a lot.
Martha as Thomas' second wife is certainly a plausible
theory.....particularly given the age of "a half-brother as old as Meredith".
Maybe first wife Martha, second wife Patsy or more likely the other way
around. Or.....could AEMDO been a daughter of anybody else? I have to
assume I overlooked her (probably because of that same large age
differential) and therefore never had to "account" for her as we do now. B.
26 Jan 1788 Va. is a tough one to slot in there. Superficially, it appears
everybody is either too old or too young to be her father. * Martha Elizabeth
Amanda Poythress Dixon Odum.

2) just where does Meredith fit into this picture? You can't prove him a
brother to
Sheriff Thomas or William and neither can I. John Carter P. (under the
theory of one Thomas as Meredith's brother) would I suspect have been a
nephew and thats not a close enough relationship to mention in deeds....or at
least all the microfilm deeds I have pored over seldom mention Uncles and
Nephews. Wills yes, but deeds seldom.

3) I am also slightly uncomfortable with Thomas (presumably the "tather" in
the "one Thomas theory"). He shouldn't be "inheriting" the sheriff's job
from his son, it should be the other way around. Certainly "inheriting" is
not precisely the right word but it the deal just looks backwards.

Again, Martha, I'm not suggesting that the "one Thomas theory" is "proved"
even if Thomas, sheriff WAS in that 1795 transaction. I'm just thinking that
the 1795 transaction doesn't disprove a "one Thomas" scenario.

Cheers, hope this one will lead us to something constructive. We'll get
there one of these day. Take a look at your charts when you get home and let
me know what you think.

Best,

Maynard		07/17/1997 2:02:39
Alexander Spotswood BookCraig R. ScottI have learned through conversations with the Virginia Historical Society
that the following book is no longer in print:

ACCESSION: 37214725
> AUTHOR: Virginia. Lieutenant-Governor (1710-1722 : Spotswood)
> TITLE: The official letters of Alexander Spotswood, lietenant-governor
> of the colony of Virginia, 1710-1722, now first printed from the
> manuscript in the collections of the Virginia historical
> society, with an introduction and notes by R. A. Brock ...

Not to be undone by such an event I contacted a librarian friend of mine and
asked her to locate libraries where it might be available. This is what she
sent me:

The question may be where isn't it available:

edition as shown below, or VHS reprint 1983:

Duke, Indiana Univ, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Bowdoin, Univ of
Rochester, Historical Soc of PA, East TN State Univ, Allen Co,
U Mich, Citadel, Texas A&M, Charlotte/Albemarle Hist Coll.,
Richard Bland, Roanoke City Public, UVA, Lynchburg Public, CW,
Emory & Henry, LVA, Hollins, Hampden Sydney, W&L, Mary
Washington, ODU, Radford, Randolph Macon, Univ of Richmond, VA
Theological Seminary, W&M

AGLL microfilm: VBPL

1973 reprint by AMS Press

Central Rappahannock Regional Public, Clinch Valley, CW,
Longwood, W&L, James Madison, VPI, VCU, LC, Eastern Kentucky
Univ, Murray St (KY), Univ of MD, Western Carolina Univ, Univ
of TN, Univ of Memphis, Memphis/Shelby Co Public, Southern West
Virginia Community & Tech College, Shepherd College (WV),
Glenville St (WV)

That ought to put it close to somebody.

Craig

P.S. Flower du books have not yet arrived.

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		07/17/1997 2:10:58
Re: Thomases 1,2 & 3Marion & Helene PockrusMaynard, You old story teller you! How old did you say you are? What a
tale you can spin!
Helene
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------

> My....theory, I guess I call it (it's all fact but I'm stretching it a
bit):
>
> First, Sheriff Thomas died in late 1800 (not "before 1795"). Burke
County
> history records him as sherriff "October 21, 1799 - 1800 died". Timing
> supported in part by
> George P. and Patsy P. doing the will administration 10 Nov 1801 (I say
"in
> part" in recognition that it was not terribly unusual to administrate a
will
> several years after the death of the principle). But in any case, its a
lock
> that he was not dead in 1795.
>
> Second, lets look at the dates in that 1795 deed carefully (I'll send you
a
> copy right after this e-mail) and I will take some liberties with the
> "dialogue" to make it fit dates that are only slightly awry. Lets
pretend:
>
> 1) Thomas (sheriff to be) is at home in Georgia with wife Martha in
spring of
> 1795 and he has about decided that the home in Georgia is here to stay
and he
> is not getting any younger. Lets call him 55...after all he will still be
> vigorous enough in 1797 to take the sheriff's job. Thomas figures he
might as
> well sell that 85 acres left in Virginia and get it off his mind by
> converting it to cash so Martha won't have to fuss with it after he
dies(or
> maybe they just need the money).
>
> 2) Thomas goes to Virginia, finds George Hicks and makes a verbal deal on
> August 20, 1795 to sell Hicks the 85 acres for 50L.
>
> 3) They go to Brunswick clerk Charles B. Jones on Sept. 28. Jones writes
it
> up and dutifully records it. Thomas has his money and Robert has his 85
> acres in Brunswick County. Thomas likely goes home to Burke County.
>
> 3) Somehow (maybe Hicks tries to resell the land) it is discovered over a
> year later in the fall of 1796 that Thomas' title to the property is
> deficient inasmuch as Martha has dower rights to the property. Her daddy
> gave it to her for a wedding present or something. Unless Martha is
willing
> to release "the indenture" the sale is void and Thomas has to refund the
> 50L.
>
> 4) Thomas is summoned back to Brunswick County (a very unhappy camper).
> Clerk Jones (Dec. 14, 1796) says "this August deed is no good because
your
> title was deficient. (so he cited August and it should have been
> September...but shoot, it was over a year ago). Jones: "give me a couple
of
> names for your Burke County court officials". Thomas: Well, James
Fletcher
> and Thomas Washington. Jones: okay, since "said Martha cannot
conveniently
> travel to our County Court of Brunswick" then you (Thomas) take this
document
> home, I have addressed it to Fletcher and Washington. Get them to
"examine
> her [Martha] privily" and "apart" from you and get a release of her dower
> rights/indenture.
>
> 5) Thomas gets back home, gets all the red tape done, and on January 17
takes
> the certified release (actually, relief of indenture) from Fletcher and
> Washington and trudges through the snow all the way back to Brunswick
Court
> with the document.
>
> 6) On January 23 clerk Jones says "okay, we're all legal now" so I will
> record it. My guess is that Thomas huffs out of the court muttering a few
> things under his breath.
>
>
> Now....it this a fairy tale? Well, sure. But its certainly possible.
And
> it allows for only one Brunswick Thomas b. ca 1740 Va. d. 1800 Sheriff of
> Burke County, Georgia
> leaving a widow named Martha (nickname Patsy) who is the only Martha in
the
> scene.
>
> Is this one bullet-proof ? Absolutely not. We still have the following
> problems:
>
> 1) where did MEAPDO* come from? A "caboose" (I loved your term) is
possible
> but only remotely so. Martha would have to be younger than Thomas by a
lot.
> Martha as Thomas' second wife is certainly a plausible
> theory.....particularly given the age of "a half-brother as old as
Meredith".
> Maybe first wife Martha, second wife Patsy or more likely the other way
> around. Or.....could AEMDO been a daughter of anybody else? I have to
> assume I overlooked her (probably because of that same large age
> differential) and therefore never had to "account" for her as we do now.
B.
> 26 Jan 1788 Va. is a tough one to slot in there. Superficially, it
appears
> everybody is either too old or too young to be her father. * Martha
Elizabeth
> Amanda Poythress Dixon Odum.
>
> 2) just where does Meredith fit into this picture? You can't prove him a
> brother to
> Sheriff Thomas or William and neither can I. John Carter P. (under the
> theory of one Thomas as Meredith's brother) would I suspect have been a
> nephew and thats not a close enough relationship to mention in
deeds....or at
> least all the microfilm deeds I have pored over seldom mention Uncles and
> Nephews. Wills yes, but deeds seldom.
>
> 3) I am also slightly uncomfortable with Thomas (presumably the "tather"
in
> the "one Thomas theory"). He shouldn't be "inheriting" the sheriff's job
> from his son, it should be the other way around. Certainly "inheriting"
is
> not precisely the right word but it the deal just looks backwards.
>
> Again, Martha, I'm not suggesting that the "one Thomas theory" is
"proved"
> even if Thomas, sheriff WAS in that 1795 transaction. I'm just thinking
that
> the 1795 transaction doesn't disprove a "one Thomas" scenario.
>
> Cheers, hope this one will lead us to something constructive. We'll get
> there one of these day. Take a look at your charts when you get home and
let
> me know what you think.
>
> Best,
>
> Maynard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>		07/17/1997 3:30:30
Re: MEAPDOCharles NealMartha,

Thanks for filling me in re MEAPDO 🙂 No reason to discontinue referring
to her that way on my account. If it is a while before her name crops up
again, we may need a reminder of the abbreviation again then.

Hope you are enjoying your sojourn in cyberspace.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/17/97		07/17/1997 8:27:42
Mecklenburg RecordsMarion & Helene PockrusAll right gang. I now have uploaded all the records that the LDS FHL has
on Mecklenburg. There are about 65. I missed a couple of numbers. I was
smart enough to save a copy for myself this time so if anyone wants a copy
of what can be ordered or researched theywill know what is available. I
did Dinwwiddie yesterday but only Maynard and Al have those .I guess that
Charles City Co. will be tomorrow. Just in passing, I got the newest
update to the SSDI today if anyone needs a look-see, let me know.
Now Find my POCKRUS Families. Lea and I have someinteresting things going
if we can make it juggle and jell.

Helene		07/17/1997 8:56:01
Thomas Pourtes - Bute Cty NCBute County, NC holds hands with Mecklenburg County, VA. Bute was created in
1764 and abolished in 1769. It is now Warren, Franklin, and Vance County.

And just speculating that the following two records might be our Thomas and
George. The years and geographic area would be right.

The following is from Warren County NC Records, Vol. III Abstracts of Will
Books 1779-1814

Will Book 7 page 47

Feb. Ct. 1794 Sale of the estate of Harbert Haynes, dec'd by James Moss,
Sheriff

Purchasers: (around 80 names are listed)

Benjamin Harrison
Thomas Pourtes (Poyrtis)

And on page 60:
9 Nov 1793 Feb Ct. 1794 Sale of the estate of Thos. Gibbs, deceased by
James Moss, Sheriff

Purchasers: (10)

George Potress

The index to these abstracts lists Poythress in various phonetic spellings:
Portis, Potress, Pourtes, Poyrtis

Barbara (BPW)		07/17/1997 9:13:12
Charles Pouthress - Bute Cty NCYet another Poythress probably land speculating in Bute Cty. A year later the
buyer, Isaac Howell, sold the land for a profit.

Warren County, NC Records
Vol. II Supplement
Abstracts of Bute Co., NC Deeds registered in Warren County

Deed Book 3, page 464. 6 April 1772. WILLIAM CRYOR, Surviving Exr. of
CHARLES POUTHRESS (POURTHRESS), dec'd., of Parish of Bath, Dinwiddie Co.,
to ISAAC HOWELL, of same Parish & County. Having qualified as Exrs. of will
of CHARLES POURTHRESS who died 17___, Certificate recorded in Dinwiddie
Court, WILLIAM CRYOR & PETER WOODLEY, of Dinwiddie Co., sold 644 A. in Bute
Co. on Hawtree Creek, adj. HAWKINS, to JOHN REES, JR., for 45 Pds. Va. money.
PETER WOODLEY died before this transaction was completed, but JOHN REES had
sold 320 A. of this land to ISAAC HOWELL & THE OTHER 324 A. to TRAVICE REES.
Now it is agreed that the whole tract be conveyed to ISAAC HOWELL, for the 45
Pds. Va. money paid by JOHN REES, JR. & 5 Sh: to be paid by sd. HOWELL.
Wit: JOHN COLEMAN, JOHN WILLIAMSON, DRURY RAGSDALE, ABNER GRIGG, JR.
Proved by JOHN WILLIAMSON, Bute May Court 1772, BEN MC CULLOCK, C.C.
Reg: 1 Aug. 1772, by JS JOHNSON, P.R

Barbara (BPW)		07/17/1997 9:29:30
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From: AEADIX@aol.com
Message-ID:
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To: VKRatliff@aol.com
cc:
poythress-Lrootsweb.com
Subject: Thomas P

The date that George and
Patsey Poythress requested letters of
administrtion on the estate of Thomas
Poythress in Burke County does nothing
to help us differenciate the Thomas
in Brunswick County, VA, as I had thought
it might. But, that chronology is
very helpful.

The scenario you have suggested is entirely plausible
and should be
weighed in the scales of possibility. I am not knowledgable
in Virginiia
land laws of that time. When I read the deed, I interpreted
his wife's
inability to come into the courthouse to be separately examined
for consent
to mean that she might be ill. In that case, a Peace Officer
or Notary
Public could do this and report her agreement to the authorities
in the
Brunswick Courthouse.

When I return to Charlotte and have an opportunity to do so, I will
send
you some of the iinformation that led me to take the position I have
taken
about my Elizabeth Poythress and her paternity. Mind you, in this
family,
the clues are fragile and I think that only a truely surprising
revelation of
heretofore unknown facts will ever be enough to clinch those
fragile clues
into acceptable proof. So, I am looking at - maybe
never.

Thanks for playing Devil's Advocate, Martha		07/17/1997 10:48:20
Re: MEAPDOBarbara, Hi! Thanks for all the hard work you are doing. Eventually, we'll
untangle all these brothrs and cousins.

When I referred to "my little MEAPDO'", I mean Sheriff Thomas
Poythress' daughter and youngest child, MARTHA ELIZABETH AMANDA POYTHRESS DIXO
N ODOM. I descend from her youngest child of lst husband, JOHN DIXON.

Family understanding has it that she was a small woman who had been
educated (at the Waynesborough (Burke County, GA ) Academy where she,
supposedly, was instructed in Piano by John Dixon . In a conversation in
l950 with an eighty - something year old lady, she told me she remembered
that people spoke of Mrs. (then) Odom as being educated, reserved but kind,
and pious. Thus the "little."

Her second husband was Laban Odom.

If the use of MEAPDO is confusing, I will discotinue it. Actually, I
doubt I would have many reasons to refer to her in the future.

Regards, Martha.		07/17/1997 12:22:40
Unidentified subject!Marion & Helene PockrusMaynard:
Just doing my thing-I called the FHL and talked to my connections. They
advised me to talk to Noel Barton who is the top man in this area. I left
word on his voice mail as he is out of town until next week. I'll have
grandkids for 2 weeks starting Sunday but I hope I can have an intelligent
conversation with him at that time. More later.
Helene

PS-Lea has been comparing some notes and material with me and have 3 named
families playing tag back in the SC, area.		07/18/1997 1:50:06
Mary Poythress WillWill of Mary Poythress, 21 July, 1772

I Mary Poythress of the County of Dinwiddie being very sick and weak but in
perfect mind an memory thanks be to God; and calling to mind that all must
die and return to dust from whence they came, so make and ordain this my last
Will and Testament - I do give, devise and bequeath to my Loving Daughter
Tabitha Poythress and her heirs forever, whatever falls or belongs to me by
Law, of my Dec�d husband Edward Poythress� estate.

I do choose and appoint William FitzGarrett and my [?]ter Tabitha Poythress,
Executors of this my last will and Testament.
Witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and offered my seal this 21st day
of July 1772.
Signed , sealed, published and
Declared in presence of
John Cryer Mary (her mark) Poythress
Thomas Anderson
Thomas Rodgers
Elizabeth Poythress		07/18/1997 1:55:04
Re: Alexander Spotswood BookAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

If anyone plans to track this book down -- please let me (list) know.
Otherwise, I will attempt to get it via library loan. Might well hold some
important clues about the Indian trade, Peter and/or Robert Poythress,
Capt. Hicks, etc.

BTW, Thanks Craig! Could you get this republished for us please !

Best,
Al Tims
----------
> From: Craig R. Scott

> I have learned through conversations with the Virginia Historical Society
> that the following book is no longer in print:
>
> ACCESSION: 37214725
> > AUTHOR: Virginia. Lieutenant-Governor (1710-1722 : Spotswood)
> > TITLE: The official letters of Alexander Spotswood,
lietenant-governor
> > of the colony of Virginia, 1710-1722, now first printed from
the
> > manuscript in the collections of the Virginia historical
> > society, with an introduction and notes by R. A. Brock ...
>
> edition as shown below, or VHS reprint 1983:
>
> Duke, Indiana Univ, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Bowdoin, Univ of
> Rochester, Historical Soc of PA, East TN State Univ, Allen Co,
> U Mich, Citadel, Texas A&M, Charlotte/Albemarle Hist Coll.,
> Richard Bland, Roanoke City Public, UVA, Lynchburg Public, CW,
> Emory & Henry, LVA, Hollins, Hampden Sydney, W&L, Mary
> Washington, ODU, Radford, Randolph Macon, Univ of Richmond, VA
> Theological Seminary, W&M
>
> AGLL microfilm: VBPL
>
> 1973 reprint by AMS Press
>
> Central Rappahannock Regional Public, Clinch Valley, CW,
> Longwood, W&L, James Madison, VPI, VCU, LC, Eastern Kentucky
> Univ, Murray St (KY), Univ of MD, Western Carolina Univ, Univ
> of TN, Univ of Memphis, Memphis/Shelby Co Public, Southern West
> Virginia Community & Tech College, Shepherd College (WV),
> Glenville St (WV)		07/18/1997 4:56:54
Re: Poythress webnetelcome aboaraed"Welcome aboard Robert,

(Take note Maynard, Al and Patti)

Great to find another Screven County, GA descendant. Robert L. Poythress (Sr
& Jr) are familiar name to me for I've just been chasing them around recently
based on a request from Patti Poythress Koscheski, who was checking on a
brother of Robert Sr. namely "John Warren" Poythress; and of course I've been
tring to wake up another Savannah, GA guy namely Carl C. Poythress, Jr.,
whose father was of course Carl C. Sr., a brother of Robert L. Poytrhress,
Jr. Now is all that clear as mud?

But Robert, when you mention GA's Screven/Burke/Effingham and or Chatham
counties, you're talking about "real honest to God home folks", and we've
agreed to let Maynard in once a year to attend the Screven County Poythress
Family Reunion, but we have to keep it quiet.........hush - hush, like! You
wouldn't believe it, but Maynard really likes to slap at those south GA
gnats, so don't let him tell you otherwise..

And don't let Maynard get you confused. Oliver, GA is on GA Rt 17, and the
oposiste side of the county and doesn't even have a 'caution light'....wait a
minute man, hell, they don"t even "HAVE A STOP SIGN(!)" on the main road;
whereas the "city (with a small 'c') of Newington is on GA Rt. 21 and has "a'
real caution light, One anyway!.. Both does however have post offices
which doesn't say very much for our government, does it? However, the
Austins, Maynard's cousins are at Newington and really are great folks.
You'll have to forgive Maynard, he's from Kentucky now!

According to my records,

First off: William E. Poythress (b7/11/1833 d. 12/23/1907) m. Martha J. (b
6/4/1841 d. 12/8/1935) - buried at North Newington Baptist Church Cemetary).
Children: Idella; Thomas Boston; William E., Jr.; John Warren; Robert L.;
and maybve Gassie H.; Bessie and Willia.

2nd: Robert L. Poythress (b. 1/2/1867 d. 2/10/1935) m. 1890 Evalina D. Evans
(a widow with 2 children) (b 4/28/1861 d. 5/2/1946) both buried at North
Nerwington Baptist Chruch Cemetary. Children: Agnes; Ernest; Earl; Robert
L., Jr.; Carl C.; Ehilma; and Lucile.

Robert L. Poythress Jr. (b. 1890 d. ? ). Sorry that is all I have on Robert,
Jr.

But one of his brothers was: -
Carl C. Poythress Sr. (b. 12/30/1892 d. 11/29/1974) m. Beatrice E. (b
10/15/1896 d. 12/29/1986) - and buried at Newington Baptist Church Cemetary
(Note: this is a different cemetary than listed above. This one in right in
the heart of the town of Newington whereas the "North Newington" cemetary is
a couple miles out of Newington. And this Carl C. Sr. had one son, Carl C.
Poythress, Jr that is 62 years old and presently lives in Savannah, GA whom
I've been trying to get to tune in to our webnet.

Hope this helps -- and again Cuz, "welcome aborad"......!!!!!

Bud Poytrhress (BPoythress@aol.com - 7/18/97, 7:PM)		07/18/1997 5:01:37
Goodbye.......for now ! I haven't been so challenged by or has so much fun with a toy since
Rubic's Cube. Seriously, this past week has expanded my circle of friends
so pleasantly I am reluctant to leave. But, we can stay in touch through
Alice.

Thank you, Maynard, for all your compliments. You are truely your
mother's son. And, thanks to the others of you who made me feel so welcome.

Goodbye! for now! And, thanks. Martha

07/18/1997 6:42:12
Re Martha's Dower ReleaseCharles NealMaynard,

As entertaining as your yarn was, upon examination of the deed & its
recording & its associated dower release, I can't agree with you re Martha
& Thomas being in Georgia.

First: it is VERY common for a deed to not be recorded as soon as it is
drawn up, BECAUSE a recording fee had to be paid whenever the recording was
done and heaven knows Poythress folks were not the only ones to have one
trait in common -- tight with a penny.

Actually this one was recorded much sooner after it was drawn up than some
of my Alabama ancestors. This deed was drawn up on 28 Aug 1795, and it was
apparently recorded in Brunswick Co, VA, when the court instructed any 2 or
more of its commissioners to go examine Martha, only 16 months later on 14
Dec 1796 (assuming both the 1795 and the 1796 have been transcribed
properly), rather than 10 YEARS later as some of my AL kinfolks did.

Secondly: the commission was named to go examine Martha on 14 Dec 1796.
The Brunswick Co, VA Commissioners were the ones who had to go and
interview Martha. They returned with the results of their examination of
her only 6 weeks later, at the next regular meeting of the (usually monthly
back then) court, and they had the holidays in the meantime. I assure you
that Brunswick would not send its commissioners to Georgia to examine
Martha, and Thomas could not examine her. If she had been examined in
Georgia by Georgia commissioners at a special request of the Brunswick
commissioners, you can bet that the dower-release's Return on 23 Jan 1797
would have read differently.

The commissioners DID NOT come back to the next monthly court and report,
"Hey, Judge, Thomas & Martha have gone to Georgia. Send the court in GA
some instructions to get a proper dower release from her." Nor did we see
any mention of the judge ordering such instructions to be sent to GA.

Therefore, THIS Thomas & and THIS Martha were still in Brunswick Co, VA as
of at least late December 1796 or January of 1797.

Ay!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 7/18/97 P.S. I'll be incommunicado for
a few days, probably for the entire weekend.		07/18/1997 9:46:32
Re: Mecklenburg RecordsHelene....I just KNEW there was some reason we were paying you six figures to
be consultant to this dumb board ;).

You're a jewel! Thanks a ton.

Maynard

07/18/1997 10:52:14
Revolutionary War RecordsCharles NealHelene,

Thank you for that very valuable tidbit; I had no idea such letters would
be there from prior researchers: what great news.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

07/19/1997 1:04:25
FW: George HicksMURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)Dear POYTHRESS researchers,

Remember when I wrote this message last week? Well, forget what I
wrote. There is a blunder. I am here to make amends and put you on the
correct path.

> ----------
> From: MURAUSKAS, PAUL SGM (G3 SOCOORD SGM)
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 1997 11:13 AM
> To: 'Poythress Genealogy List'
> Subject: FW: George Hicks
>
> . . . this is a quick pedigree on how I see the George HICKS who
> married Temperance Hill Clayton. He would be the great grandson of
> CPT Robert HICKS.
>
> 1] CPT Robert HICKS 1658 - 1739 m. 1st Winifred EVANS m. 2nd Frances
> d. 1744 [not all children listed]
> 2] George HICKS Sr. abt 1695 - abt 1762 m. Sarah [not all
> children listed]
> 3] Cpt James HICKS 1728 - 1793 m. Judith Collier
> 4] Charles HICKS
> 4] John HICKS
> 4] Isaac HICKS
> 4] George HICKS m. Temperance Hill CLAYTON (dau
> of John CLAYTON and Temperance HILL)
> 5] Martha Hill HICKS 1785 - 1809
> 5] Hannah HICKS 1788 - 1808
> 5] James Green HICKS 1790 -
> 5] John HICKS 1794 - 1813
> 5] George HICKS 1797-
> 4] Vines HICKS
> 4] Sarah (Sally) HICKS
> 4] James HICKS
> 4] Nancy Vines HICKS
>
Delete the part that states: 4] George HICKS m. Temperance Hill CLAYTON
(dau of John CLAYTON and Temperance HILL)

Change that to: 4] George HICKS m. Temperance Hill CLAYTON the
widow of John CLAYTON.

The CLAYTON Bible Record shows no children for John Clayton and
Temperance Hill. It was an assumption I made without aying attention.
Sorry!

I was quickly notified by an attentive researcher who caught my error.
I hope this has not caused too much interference.

Paul Murauskas
g3socsgm@hq.c5.army.mil		07/19/1997 1:06:53
Surname Query & Info -- Mary PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Received the following two messages from Gene Rooks in NC. I responded to
the first asking for permission to post the query to the list and relaying
a summary of what I understand about the maiden name of Mary Poythress. I
sais that we didn't have solid evidence, but seem to have some
circumstantial indications making the Sloman surname a leading candidate.
The second message below is Gene's response. Gene isn't on the list, so
please send your replies to her email address directly -- copy to the list,
if you feel it is appropriate. Her last sentence in the second message is
very interesting!

Best,
Al Tims
------------------------

Subject: Capt. Poythress - Chas. City Co. VA
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:48:28, -0500
From: VWTK60A@prodigy.com (MRS GENE ROOKS)
To: Albert R Tims

Hi, Al, I was told you have a Poythress Group, I would be interested
in a query. We don't actually have Poythress on our pedigree, but
do have a line to a widow Mary Poythress (widow of Capt. Francis
Poythress who died in Charles City VA? who married Robert Wynne ca.
1650 and had children by him. I have seen various maiden names
suggested for her, among them Booth, Sloman, and Peyton. Is she in
your data, and does anyone know who her family is? Gene Ballentine
Rooks in Hendersonville, NC

Message #2

Subject: Re: Capt. Poythress - Chas. City Co. VA
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:35:40, -0500
From: VWTK60A@prodigy.com (MRS GENE ROOKS)
To: Albert R Tims

By all means, Al, please do so. I might mention that another
researcher tells me she found papers at the NC Archives filed by a
Mrs Lucille Pleasants back in 1939 who makes a convincing case for
Mary's maiden name being BOOTH. Gene in NC		07/19/1997 2:03:52
Re: Revolutionary War RecordsMarion & Helene PockrusJust my bit for the day!. You are welcome.
Helene

----------
From: Charles Neal
To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Revolutionary War Records
Date: Saturday, July 19, 1997 1:04 PM

Helene,

Thank you for that very valuable tidbit; I had no idea such letters would
be there from prior researchers: what great news.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
----------		07/19/1997 2:13:36
Taxes Bass/Poythress1816 June 28 Received of Lewis Poytrefs the sum of five dollars and forty two
cents for the land damage and all charges on 33 acres of land returned for
the nonpayment of taxes in the name of Dennis Bafs for the year 1809 in the
County of Mecklenburg which was sold to Richard Apperson at August Court
1815.

Truly Recorded Edward S. Tabb CC

Barbara (BPW)		07/19/1997 3:47:42
Bass/Poythress Indenture3 Nov. 1813

Dennis Bass (North Hampton County, NC)
sold to Lewis Poythress (Mecklenburg County, VA)
33 acres

Transcribed from Mecklenburg County Records

This Indenture made this third day of November in the year of our Lord
Christ, one thousand eight hundred and thirteen, between Dennis Bafs of
Northhampton County and State of North Carolina of the one part and Lewis
Poythrefs of Mecklenburg County and State of Virginia of the one part.
Witnefeth that for and in consideration of thirty three pounds in hand paid
by the said Lewis Poythrefs the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged by the
said Dennis Bafs have bargained and sold and by these presents do and doth
bargain and sell unto the said Lewis Poythrefs his heirs and afsigns one
certain tract or parcel of land situated lying and being in the County of
Mecklenburg and bounded as follows to beginning on a corner maple on Prellys
(?)Branch in Grief Harwells line thence along the said Harwells line to a
corner post oak in Lewis Poythrefs line. There down said branch as it
meanders to the long branch, thence up the said branch as meanders to a
corner white oak in James L. Nance's line thence along the said Nances line
to a corner pine thence along said Nances line to the beginning. Containing
by a late survey Thirty three acres all houses and houses orchards and
appurtenances thereunto belonging or in any wise appertaining and reversion
and reversions remainder and remainders to have and to hold the said tract or
parcel of land and all and singular The said premises above mentioned and
every part thereof with their appertenances unto the said Lewis Poythrefs his
heirs and afsigns forever to the only proper use and behoof of him the Lewis
Poythrefs his heirs and afsigns and the said Dennis Bafs and his heirs and
afsigns the said tract or parcel of land and premises and every part thereof
against him and his heirs and against all and every other person or persons
whatsoever to the said Lewis Poythrefs his heirs and afsigns shall and will
forever warrant and defend by these presents. In Witnefs whereof the said
Dennis Bafs have hereunto set his hand and affixed his seal the day and year
first above written.

Dennis Bafs (his mark and seal)

Signed sealed and delivered in presence of
Jno Nance
Edward Giles
Nancey L. Nance
Lewis Parham
James Harwell

The Commonwealth of Virginia to Lewis Parham, James Harwell and John
Poynor(?) Gent. Justices of Mecklenburg County Greeting: whereas Dennis Bafs
by his Indenture of bargain and sales bearing date the 3rd day of November
1812 hath sold and conveyed unto Lewis Poythrefs Thirty three acres of land
situated lying and being in the County of Mecklenburg on Brellys (?) branch
and whereas Mary Bafs the wife of the said Dennis Bafs cannot conveniently
travel the said County Court of Mecklenburg to relinquish her right of dower
in and to the said land conveyed and the deed hereto annexed, ___ are
therefore to commifsions and require you or any two of you that you privily
and apart from the said Dennis her husband to examine the said Mary touching
her free relinquishment of dower in and to the said lands and that thereof
you plainly and distinctly certify and inclose to the Justices of our County
Court of Mecklenburg aforesaid, under your hands and seals, together with
this commifson and deed Witnefs William Baskervill Clerk of our said Court
the 5th day of November 1813 in the 38th year of the Commonwealth.

W Baskerville

In compliance with the written commifsion to us directed we have examined the
within named Mary Bafs as herein required and do hereby certify that she hath
freely and voluntarily relinquished her right of dower in and to the land
conveyed in the annexed Indenture and consent that the same shall be recorded
in the Court of this County. Given under our hands and seals this 6th day of
November 1813.
Lewis Parham
James Harwell

Barbara (BPW)		07/19/1997 4:12:18
Re: Re Martha's Dower ReleaseBPN....otay....back to the drawing board. I still think Fletcher and
Washington were in Georgia but I'll root some more.

MP

07/19/1997 9:51:54
Revolutionary War RecordsMarion & Helene PockrusLearned something new today. Thought I would share it-Helene

You are aware that for the Revolutionary Pension and Bounty Land
Applications have been filmed by LDS-FHL. If you order the microfilm
copies through a Family History branch Library you can look at the whole
packet. Not just SELECTED pages. Often those non-selected pages the
National Archives do not copy includes letters from earlier researchers
asking for a copy of these records (some as early as late 1800s) with
other genealogical information on them. Also can look at all the other
packets of your surname. I have found brothers of my ancestor (whose
first
names I was not aware of) this way with lots more genealogical information
in the brother's packet.		07/19/1997 11:18:52
"Family Name History"One of my kids came back from somewhere with one of those one-page print-outs
sold at county fairs.....10 bucks to get your Family History! etc. etc.

It may be generically computerized and generally a cornball deal but there
are a couple of points worth posting just for the curiosity.....and there is
the observation that those guys sometimes aren't 100% selling a scam, maybe
only 90%.

FAMILY NAME HISTORY: Poytress [notice that conventional Enlish spelling]

"The family name Poytress is classified as being of occupational
origin....with regard to the surname Poytress, this name appears to be a
derivaitive of the regional French term "poitrau" which refers to the harness
of a horse. Thus the name indicates that its original bearer was a
harness-maker."

"Variants of the surname Poytress include Poythress and Poytris...."

"One of the earliest references to this name or to a variant is a record of
one Aliciae
Poythress, daughter of Henry Poythress and his wife Martha, who was baptised
in Newent, Gloucestershire on March 21 1724. One Ann Poytris, daughter of
Thomas
Poytris and his wife Anna was christened in Tirley, on October 17.1773, while
one Agnes Louisa, daughter of James Poytress and his wife Sarah, was
christened in Hasfield, on August 6, 1868"

Well, with respect to that occupational origin...we got French red beards,
pewter-workers, and now harness makers. Only a matter of time until we get
to book makers, bootleggers, etc.

Maynard		07/20/1997 2:50:13
Re: "Family Name History"Maynard,

Sorry--but we are already there. Grandfather Claner Poytress Northampton Co.
NC was a bootlegger. b. 1898

Bruce Porter		07/20/1997 3:34:38
RE: Where is the connection?Hello Everyone,
I am new to your list and have been reading all your stuff for about three
weeks. Some really great stuff it is too. I have a question, of all those
Poythress people you have located, how come none of you seem to have a
connection to any of mine from Northampton County, NC. Yours seem to be all
around -- there has to be a direct link somewhere?

Family is descended from James Poythress m. Sarah Crowder 1826, son Richard P
Poythress b. 1847, his son Charles b. 1869, his son Claner b. 1898, his son
Robert b. 1921 to my husband Charles b. 1950. All in or around Northampton
CO. NC.

James probably was not an only child, so one of your is probably a
brother--any help would be greatly appreciated. You may even have one of
Richards children, he had 11.

Bruce Porter		07/20/1997 5:51:06
MelungeonsJean P. Spille:

Jean...I have mailed you today an article The Louisville Courier-Journal
picked up off the AP wire. I make it a million to one against the possiblity
that it will tell you anything you don't already....and therefore its value
is simply seeing the information/misinformation that can be done by a cub
reporter.

The "occasion" is the announcement of Friday's Mulungeon gathering in Wise,
Virginia...and the rest of the article is standard fare for what I suspect
they think are general interest newspaper readers.

I found it VERY interesting that the lady around whom they built the story is
Sharon
BOLLING.

Best,

Maynard

07/20/1997 12:48:05
Re: Re "family Name History"Maurice.....thanks....thats what I was driving at...the peddlars of that
stuff aren't 100% fraud, they are often only 99.9% fraud. Yep, I agree with
all of your points.

By the way, how you guys coming along with the mad cows? You're not shipping
them over here now are you? 😉

Maynard		07/21/1997 9:39:07
Flowerdew Hundred & Mecklenburg CountyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Would be interested in some independent interpretation of the following.

Jones Family of Warwick County, Tyler's Quarterly Magazine, Vol. 6, 1924,
p.45.

Tingnall JONES married Martha Anderson, daughter of Thomas Anderson (Thomas
Anderson married Miss Clark of Charles City County, a daughter of James
Clark and Henrietta Maria Hardiman, daughter of John Hardiman and Henrietta
Maria Taylor (daughter of John Taylor), who in 1725 sold Flower de Hundred
to Joseph POYTHRESS of Charles City County. He removed to Mecklenburg Co.,
sometime prior to the American Revolution.) Tingnall Jones moved thither
also, and his will is on record at Boydton. It was dated 21 June, 1793,
and proved 13 October, 1794.

1. I believe this reference is in error -- should read Joshua Poythress
rather than Joseph. Am I correct?

2. Anyone want to guess WHO "removed to Mecklenburg Co., sometime prior to
the American Revolution"? The author may mean John Hardiman or Joseph
Poythress. I know the author doesn't mean Tingnall JONES since he mentions
Tingnall in the next sentence.

Best,
Al Tims		07/21/1997 10:33:25
Re "family Name History"Pat & Maurice CreweGreetings to Maynard and all,
Re the Family Name History you acquired, I was surprised that the
references it quoted were from Gloucestershire rather than the USA. All
they appear to have done is copy the 1st 3 entries from the IGIs - not
the earliest references datewise as is implied. I can't see how these
could be of much use to anyone especially as the last one mentioned died
as a baby. I know, what can one expect for very little outlay.
As to the meaning of the name, my, admittedly very small, book on
surnames doesn't mention Poythress in any form. In my Dictionary of
Archaic Words, I did find "Poy" meaning a long boat hook by which boats
were propelled against the stream. So how about Poythress as one who
used a poy - perhaps not, but you can add it your list of almost possible
meanings. I'd love to know where the "French red beards" derivation came
from, unless of course it applies to one of you guys! Pewter-worker is
also interesting as we have already discussed whether Pewtris and
Pewteres are variants of Poythress. If this is correct perhaps Poythress
is a variant of Pewtris and not the other way round!!
Regards, Pat		07/21/1997 12:35:20
POYTHRESS look-upsStarrHello everyone,
I'm "sorta back" from vacation for am now beginning "back to school"
preparations. Before I left last week, I promised to do some look-ups in
back issues of "Tidewater VA Families" qtrly for the POYTHRESS / PUCKRUS
surname. I'm surprised to find only a couple, and both of these are not
likely to be even POYTHRESS, but I'll let you decide.

One is a brief mention of the Thomas PETTUS plantation which overlooked
the James River and where major archaeological digs have been made. This
is within an article on Kingsmill plantation a.k.a. Archer's Hope. But
reading further I see he is well documented so not a likely POYTHRESS
candidate. [Nothing like typing on the wing, is there?]

The other "unlikely candidate" is Mathew PEATROSS of Carolina Co., one
of the signers of a petition to have the local miller exempted from service
in the CW.

I can give further citations if anyone wants to pursue either ... Sorry
there wasn't more, but at least this quarterly is something others can mark
off the list of indexes to go through. Have a good week everyone. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/22/1997 1:20:15
Re: Poythress & Pockrus in LAMarion & Helene PockrusAl:
Bless you!
I have the records of the Wilburn Pockrus. I will enclose same. Hadn't
thought to check the Poythress. In fact there has been some confusion to
us as to a Wilburn, and a William C. The James interests us very much
because we have always wondered if the J.R. Pockrus that married Almarinda
Boggs, and the J.R. who married Margaret Shaver McMahon(widow of John
Shaver who died in CW) were one and the same. My 9 year old gs is sitting
here correcting my punctuation. Time to go to the Discovery Park. By the
way, I can't get into that site as it times out.
Back later tonight!
Helene

----------
> From: Albert R. Tims
> To: Poythress Genealogy List
> Subject: Poythress & Pockrus in LA
> Date: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 12:41 AM
>
> Poythress List,
>
> Have located an online source for LA land records.
>
> http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/laland/laland.pl
>
> It is possible to get a detailed description of the properties listed.
> Below is the first record I've seen so far that actually puts a Poythress
> and a Pockrus in the same place. I do not know who this James A.
Poythress
> might be. Any clues? I did a quick check for alternate spellings and
> didn't find additional information.
>
> Best,
> Al Tims
>
> Louisiana Land Records -- Interactive Search
>
> Entries matching "Poythress"
>
> Last Name First Name Init Date Parish

> Acres
> POYTHRESS JAMES A 1860 Bossier/Caddo
> 0.0000
> POYTHRESS JAMES A 1860 Bossier/Caddo
> 35.4200
> POYTHRESS JAMES A 1860 Bossier/Caddo
> 119.3600
>
> Entries matching "Pockrus"
>
> To see the full record, just select the surname in the line of interest.
If
> no names are listed below
> here, then none were found.
>
> Last Name First Name Init Date Parish

> Acres
> POCKRUS WILBURN C 1893 Bossier
> 0.0000
> POCKRUS WILBURN C 1893 Bossier
> 0.0000
> POCKRUS WILBURN C 1893 Bossier
> 160.4200
>
> ---------------
> After this intro, there is the full record as taken from the Bureau of
Land
> Management CD-ROM.
> As we decipher what each field contains, and the codes used in it, we
will
> add that information to
> this page. That is, there is little point in contacting us to find out
what
> these fields mean: if we don't
> provide the information here, then your guess is as good as ours. The
> documents themselves may be
> ordered from the BLM. Call them at 703-440-1600 to set up a GLO account
> with your Mastercard
> or VISA. They can then send you the images via FAX or mail, as you
prefer.
> They also have a web
> page that may be of interest.
>
> For more information on how to interpret legal descriptions of this type,
> be sure to visit Melissa
> Calhoun's Graphical Display of the Federal Township and Range System.
>
> PATENT_L_N: POYTHRESS
> PATENT_F_N: JAMES
> PATENT_M_I: A
> ACCESS_NR: LA0720__.262
> SEQ_NR: 1
> TOTAL_PAGE: 1
> IMAGE_NAME: 00009112
> VOL_ID: 508
> IMAGE_TYPE: P
> DESCRIP_NR: 2
> ALIQUOT_PT: SESW
> SECTION_NR: 20
> TOWNSHIP: 16.0N
> RANGE: 13.0W
> BLOCK_NR: 0
> MERIDAN_CD: 18
> TOTAL_ACRE: 119.3600
> FRAC_SECT: N
> L_O_CODE: 04
> DOCUMENT_N 409: 15350
> MISC_DOC_N:
> TITLE_AUTH: 272002
> SIGNATURE: Y
> SIGN_DATE: 1860/06/01
> SUBSU_RESV: N
> METES_BOUN: N
> SURVY_DATE:
> WARR_L_NAM:
> WARR_F_NAM:
> CANCEL_DOC: N
> MULT_PATEN: N
> MULT_WARR: N
> REMARKS:		07/22/1997 1:27:22
Re: Flowerdew Hundred & Mecklenburg CountyAl,

In regard to the Jones Family in Tyler's Quarterly Magazine:

1. I think you are correct in that Joseph Poythress should read Joshua
Poythress.

Here is an excerpt from an article written by John Frederick Dorman, C. G.,
F.A.S.G.
"The Flower de Hundred tract was acquired by Joshua Poythress from two of the
daughters of Capt. John Taylor, the previous owner. He bought 300 acres on
9-10 July 1725 for 300 pounds from John Hardyman (who married Henrietta Maria
Taylor and had previously bought 150 acres of this from Francis Hardyman and
wife Sarah, another Taylor daughter) and an additional 250 acres on 6 Oct.
1732 from Mrs. Elizabeth Duke, the third Taylor daughter."

2. I would interpret the WHO removed to Mecklenburg County as meaning Thomas
Anderson.

And TAYLOR presents another intriguing name to track into Mecklenburg. Lewis
Poythress of that county married Rebecca B. Taylor there on April 9, 1802.

AY! Barbara (BPW)		07/22/1997 6:05:00
Thomas-Chasing in BrunswickLyn P BairdAll, the following is from notes transcribed by my mother in 1989. I
have not yet verified against the originals:

OB8, p104 Before July 15, 1781 Joseph Prince against Thomas Poythress,
Jr. and Thomas Poythress, Sr., Debtors
Francis Mallory _ special bail and judgment confessed for 3000 lbs
inspected tobacco at pitch landing with interest from the 25th December
1782 and the books and by consent the execution of this judgment is
stayed 3 months. [Comment: Note this implies that in 1782 in Brunswick
there are TWO Thomas Poythresses, BOTH OF LEGAL AGE, and obviously
associated economically. Relationship is not stated.]

Your further analyses are welcomed.

Regards,
LPB		07/22/1997 6:21:58
Williamson RaineyLyn P BairdAll, Barbara Neal inquires who is Williamson Rainey, Sr., neighboring
landowner to Lewis POYTHRESS in his 1845 land sale. I have not fully
researched Williamson, but this is what I know of him:

Williamson is the son of Francis RAINEY of Brunswick Co. Williamson was
born between 1760 and 1770 and married Edith MORGAN in Mecklenburg in
1779, daughter of Reuben MORGAN. Williamson was a Revolutionary soldier
and a Christian layman instrumental in establishing the Methodist sect in
eastern Mecklenburg. His will was probated in Mecklenburg in 1847. He
is buried on his farm near the headwaters of Great Creek of the Roanoke,
just off Gaulding Road in Mecklenburg, and his grave is marked by a stone
erected in 1967 by the DAR. I am the fifth-great-grandson of Williamson,
Sr. through his daughter Elizabeth who married John B. KIDD of
Mecklenburg.

Regards,
LPB		07/22/1997 6:21:58
Sources for Claims, PleaseLyn P BairdMaynard, I have been out of town and am playing message catch-up. That
discussion with Martha Dixon was great. Since she is no longer on-line,
it would be appreciated for you to provide the rest of us the citations
and contents of the sources you and she were debating, as follows:

1) In a message of July 15 Martha states “We have the birthdate of
Sheriff Thomas Poythress...”

2) In a message of July 17 Martha states “Wasn't the Sheriff , Thomas II,
dead by l795?”

3) In a message of July 17 you hold that “...Burke County history records
him as sherriff ‘October 21, 1799 - 1800 died’.

4) In 7/17 and other messages there have been references to the estate of
Sheriff Thomas Poythress; specifically a) administrators Patsy and
George, b) administration 1801, c) position of sheriff included in
estate.

5) In your message of 7/20 you state “we can prove that Thomas also had
sons Lewis, Thomas, Jr., etc” [In this case, I am of course especially
interested in your basis for the parentage of my ancestor Lewis.]

In regard to source materials for the above five sets of claims, I have
searched through the web site, but have not been able to locate. If any
are, just point me. Again, your help in providing citations and
transcriptions would benefit several of us. Or, let me know materials
you do not have and possible alternative sources for me to pursue.

Sincerely,
LPB		07/22/1997 6:21:59
Early Evidence of Poythress in BrunswickLyn P BairdAll, here are entries from Brunswick, Virginia, Court Order Books.
[These are from notes transcribed by my mother in 1989. I have not yet
verified against the originals.]

OB8, p16 Order that Ingram Blanks, Thomas Morris and Richard Blank being
first sworn before a Justice of this county do appraise in current money
the slaves (if any) and personal estate of John PORTIS decd and ______
the appraisement ot the Court. [Comment, while this is not dated, it
appears to be associated with the 1760 inventory of the estate of John
POTESS, WB3, p341. It is noteworthy that this 1760 inventory is the last
indexed estate record of a Brunswick Poythress until A. J. Poythress in
1936!]

OB8, p92 Ordered that John Peterson, George Wyche, Thomas Morris and
John Liefsay or any three of them being first sworn do view the
conveniency and inconveniency that may attempt turning the River Road
beginning at Smith’s old Fields or thereabouts and running from thence
into POYTHRESS's road near the Great Swamp bridge and make a report
thereof to the Court. At a court held for Brunswick County on Monday the
Twenty-fifth day of August in the year of our Lord one thousand seven
hundred Sixty. [Comment: This indicates established Poythress
"presence" in the county in 1760.]

Your further analyses are welcomed.

Regards,
LPB		07/22/1997 6:21:59
George Poythress of GAAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following is a minor record, but it does raise an interesting question
about the Virginia origins of George Poythress of Georgia, 1791.

Virginia Calendar of State Papers, 15 Sept. 1791
State of Georgia, Richmond County:
Robert Dixon, William Nicholson and George POYTHRESS testify under Oath,
that a certain Benjamin Woodward, then in the common jail, in the County of
Richmond, in the State of Georgia, is the identical person who was formerly
a resident of Dinwiddie County, in the State of Virginia, and has long been
noted for his villainy for counterfeiting the public papers of that State,
and for whose arrest and delivery to the proper authorities, a large reward
was offered by the Governor of Virginia.

Note: The capture of Woodward as regarded as a matter of so much
importance that a reward of $400 was offered for his arrest and delivery to
the District Jailer at Petersburg. He was arrested at Augusta, Georgia,
and brought by Major Longstreet and Alexander McMilean, to the city of
Richmond.

This record is of interest because:

1. It would seem to establish that George Poythress (in Georgia, 1791) had
reason to know Benjamin Woodward of Dinwiddie County. This may indicate
that Poythress might have come from Dinwiddie County. I'd hardly call this
proof; just a small clue.

2. We have the following record for Thomas Poythress. Please note that I
have no evidence to establish a connection between the Henry Woodward named
below with Benjamin Woodward mentioned above.

30 Mar 1789.."Thomas Poythress for removing Henry Woodward"..meeting
of the Overseers of the Poor at the Court House...from St. Andrews Parish
Vestry Book 1732-1797 of Brunswick County, Virginia. By Wm. Linsay
Hopkins (abstracted from photocopies in the Virginia State Library).

I have not seen the original entry from the St. Andrews Vestry Book. It
might well merit our study.

Best,
Al Tims		07/22/1997 12:10:30
Poythress & Pockrus in LAAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Have located an online source for LA land records.

http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/laland/laland.pl

It is possible to get a detailed description of the properties listed.
Below is the first record I've seen so far that actually puts a Poythress
and a Pockrus in the same place. I do not know who this James A. Poythress
might be. Any clues? I did a quick check for alternate spellings and
didn't find additional information.

Best,
Al Tims

Louisiana Land Records -- Interactive Search

Entries matching "Poythress"

Last Name First Name Init Date Parish
Acres
POYTHRESS JAMES A 1860 Bossier/Caddo
0.0000
POYTHRESS JAMES A 1860 Bossier/Caddo
35.4200
POYTHRESS JAMES A 1860 Bossier/Caddo
119.3600

Entries matching "Pockrus"

To see the full record, just select the surname in the line of interest. If
no names are listed below
here, then none were found.

Last Name First Name Init Date Parish
Acres
POCKRUS WILBURN C 1893 Bossier
0.0000
POCKRUS WILBURN C 1893 Bossier
0.0000
POCKRUS WILBURN C 1893 Bossier
160.4200

---------------
After this intro, there is the full record as taken from the Bureau of Land
Management CD-ROM.
As we decipher what each field contains, and the codes used in it, we will
add that information to
this page. That is, there is little point in contacting us to find out what
these fields mean: if we don't
provide the information here, then your guess is as good as ours. The
documents themselves may be
ordered from the BLM. Call them at 703-440-1600 to set up a GLO account
with your Mastercard
or VISA. They can then send you the images via FAX or mail, as you prefer.
They also have a web
page that may be of interest.

For more information on how to interpret legal descriptions of this type,
be sure to visit Melissa
Calhoun's Graphical Display of the Federal Township and Range System.

PATENT_L_N: POYTHRESS
PATENT_F_N: JAMES
PATENT_M_I: A
ACCESS_NR: LA0720__.262
SEQ_NR: 1
TOTAL_PAGE: 1
IMAGE_NAME: 00009112
VOL_ID: 508
IMAGE_TYPE: P
DESCRIP_NR: 2
ALIQUOT_PT: SESW
SECTION_NR: 20
TOWNSHIP: 16.0N
RANGE: 13.0W
BLOCK_NR: 0
MERIDAN_CD: 18
TOTAL_ACRE: 119.3600
FRAC_SECT: N
L_O_CODE: 04
DOCUMENT_N 409: 15350
MISC_DOC_N:
TITLE_AUTH: 272002
SIGNATURE: Y
SIGN_DATE: 1860/06/01
SUBSU_RESV: N
METES_BOUN: N
SURVY_DATE:
WARR_L_NAM:
WARR_F_NAM:
CANCEL_DOC: N
MULT_PATEN: N
MULT_WARR: N
REMARKS:		07/22/1997 12:41:01
Re: Williamson RaineyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Lyn Baird wrote:

"Williamson Rainey was a Revolutionary soldier and a Christian layman
instrumental in establishing the Methodist sect in eastern Mecklenburg.
His will was probated in Mecklenburg in 1847."

Lyn, this is interesting in light of the following Poythress information:

An Unusual Valentine -- An Anointed Vessel From: "History of the Methodist
Episcopal Church," Vol. IV, Book V, Chapter XIX, by Abel Stevens

"In 1798 Bird and Poythress lead, as presiding elders, the Holston corps,
though there is yet but one district; and we meet again the tireless
Valentine Cook at the head of the solitary district which comprises the
more western field, with its six long circuits and seven itinerants."

The list below, taken from "A History of the Methodist Episcopal Church,"
Volume IV, by Dr.
Nathan Bangs, includes: "all the preachers who were received into full
connection in the Methodist
Episcopal Church to the year 1840, including those who came from Europe and
returned, as well as
those who remained in this country." While the Methodist Episcopal Church
was not organized until
1784, some of the preachers on this list entered the Methodist ministry
long before that. Especially is
this true of those who came from England, one of whom was "received" in the
year 1762. Thus, the
range of years shown above is from the year 1762 to the year 1840.

Poythress, Francis -- Received 1776, Located 1801

These two records show that Francis Poythress entered the MEC prior to its
organization in 1784 and that he was a "presiding elder" by 1798. Chances
are that we might well find more on the Francis Poythress in the various
archives of the Methodist Church. Would be interesting to explore this
potential source of a relationship between Rainey and Poythress.

Best,

Al Tims		07/23/1997 1:06:57
Re: Flowerdew Hundred BookCraig....I'll take 2 hardbacks....is that $64 or $68? I'll put you a check
in the mail.

Thanks.

Maynard

(2903 Glen Hill Circle
Louisville, KY 40222-6159)		07/23/1997 1:32:08
Re: Sources for Claims, PleaseI have been following your discussions for my mother, and sending her
copies of posts that I think will be of interest to her....She seemed
especially interested in the notation by Al Tims Re: the verification by
Robt Dixon, Wm Nicholson & Geo Poythress of the identity of Benj Woodward.

In response to Lyn Baird's request for sources (and I'm not sure how to
include the text of LPB's questions in this post) I have posed your questions
to my mother:

1) The birthdate of Sheriff Thos Poythress: She says that she doesn't
have that Information, and was puzzelled that she was quoted as having
claimed said. She has no proof of his birthdate.

2 & 3 & 4) Re: his date of death/execturors: She references a
November 10, 1801 notice in the Augusta Chronicle which specifies George and
Patsy as the administrators of the estate.

5) Re: Thos sonsbeing Lewis, Thos Jr, et al : She notes that this
information is found in the will of George Poythress filed in Florida.

Hope that this is helpful in clarifying online discussions that my
mother had with Maynard last week.

On a personal note, I wish to thank you all for being so accomodating to
my mother....I think that she found the internet, and most specifically your
discussion group, to be fascinating! I hope that by Christmas, I will be
able to upgrade my computer and pass this old 486 on to her.

I will continue to "lurk" on this discussion board, copying and mailing
info of interest to my mother; if there are any specific questions for her, I
will atttempt to answer them for her.

Finally, while I have not caught the geneaology bug, and will never
uncover anywhere near the information that my Mother has, I do recognize that
by virtue of my residence (Richmond, Virginia), and accompanying proximity to
the Library of Virginia, I might be of value to the group. While I can make
no promises, if I can earn my mother any good-will currency with a bit of
occasional research for you, I will do what I can!

Alice Dixon (AEADIX@aol.com),
daughter of Martha Dixon		07/23/1997 2:42:59
Francis Poythress - Methodist PreacherAlbert R. TimsSubject: Re: Williamson Rainey

Maynard Wrote:
> Can't we almost say for certain that this particular Francis (who died a
> batchelor in KY) is the same one we had several exchanges on about a
month or
> so ago?

Yes, this is the same person. We have some information Jean Spille
provided on the web page -- under queries.

> If he is, we 3 have considerable information on him. Other than finding
out
> his parentage (which as I recall we did but I can't remember it now) this
> Francis had considerable historical interest but almost zilch
genealogical
> interest.

Maynard, I don't recall that we established who his parents were. If so,
would someone remind me. Your comment concerning his "genealogical"
interest stems from our belief that he never married. I don't recall that
we ever established this as a fact, although I do believe some secondary
source made this claim. Again, I can't recall the authority for this
statement.

More importantly, I believe, is the surname linkages we have for his two
sisters (Elizabeth Peniston and Susan Pryor). According to a query posted
to The Virginia Genealogist (Vol. 6, 1962, p. 142) by Mrs. J. Franck
Thompson, 1203 East Rollins, Columbia, Mo., "Francis was a Methodist
minister with Bishop Asbury. He died in 1820 at the home of Susanna Pryor,
12 miles from Lexington, Ky."

On a personal note -- Asbury Seminary is just west of Lexington in Wilmore,
Ky. When I was an undergraduate at UK I use to play golf at the seminary
course -- nine holes for 75 cents, or was it 50 cents ;-). In any event, I
can only wonder if the archives at the seminar might not have additional
information on Francis Poythress and his relationship with Bishop Asbury.

Back to genealogy -- the PENISTON surname does show up as a POYTHRESS AND
CLEATON neighbor in the following deed to George WAINRIGHT in 1749:

re 1000a PGCo on the N Side of Tommahitton Swamp
...... pt A) at Poythress's Corner white Oak on the sd Swamp
.......pt G) Cleatons corner
.......pt K) Penniston's Line

Moreover, I've also seen the PRIOR surname connect, but can't quite place
it just yet.

I believe we would do well to try to get a better sense of the Peniston and
Prior migration into Kentucky. It appears to correspond fairly closely
with the movement of the Speed family into Kentucky.

Maynard, I'm not sure I agree that Francis isn't of genealogical interest
-- even if he didn't have issue. It seems that he was a contemporary of
Thomas Poythress and of the same southside origins. If so, his papers
might hold considerable insight, and offer us some fresh perspectives on
the forces that led to the family migrations we're seeing.

Best,

Al Tims		07/23/1997 4:12:54
Re: Early Evidence of Poythress in BrunswickLea L. DowdI read with much interest about John Portis... The following material is
taken from secondary sources and should NOT be accepted as fact.....
However, I did find it interesting and it may contain a clue in here
somewhere. This would be an earlier John Portis/Poythress. Any additions
and/or corrections are welcomed. Also below is some information that I
have on Thomas MORRIS.

Lea

Descendants of John Portis

Generation No. 1

1. John1 Portis died 07 Apr 1703 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story;
Thomas). He married (1) ? Bef. 1650. He married (2) Deborah Hardy Aft.
1671 (Source: Anne Jones; annegj@juno.com), daughter of John Hardy and
Alice.

Child of John Portis and ? is:
+ 2 i. Susannah2 Portis.

Generation No. 2

2. Susannah2 Portis (John1). (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas)
She married (1) ? Frizzell Bef. 1672. She married (2) John Thomas , Sr.
Bef. 1673, son of Richard Thomas and Elizabeth Marshall.

Children of Susannah Portis and John Thomas are:
3 i. John3 Thomas , Jr. (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Elizabeth Kearney (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
+ 4 ii. Richard Thomas , Sr..
5 iii. William Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Martha Robinson (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
+ 6 iv. Joseph Thomas , Sr., born ca 1680; died ca 1736 in Bertie Co., NC.
7 v. Phillip Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Ann (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
+ 8 vi. Barnaby Thomas.
+ 9 vii. Elizabeth Thomas.

Generation No. 3

4. Richard3 Thomas , Sr. (Susannah2 Portis, John1). (Source: The Thomas &
Bridges Story; Thomas) He married ? Rogers, daughter of Michael Rogers.

Children of Richard Thomas and ? Rogers are:
10 i. John4 Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
11 ii. Mary Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
12 iii. Elizabeth Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
13 iv. Richard Thomas , Jr. (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

6. Joseph3 Thomas , Sr. (Susannah2 Portis, John1) was born ca 1680
(Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas), and died ca 1736 in Bertie
Co., NC (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He married (1)
Elizabeth in #1 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He married
(2) Alice Spivey in #2 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

Notes for Joseph Thomas , Sr.:
Joseph Thomas' original plantation consisted of 200A of land that he
purchased from Samuel Bass. Six years later, May 12, 1735, he paid for an
additional 640A on the N side of the Roanoke River adj. property of John
Blount, Thomas Busby and Richard Melton. This was purchased from Henry
Avery and his wife Mary. Likely this property was adj. to property that he
already owned on the south side of the Cashie Swamp.

More About Joseph Thomas , Sr.:
: Feb 1734/35, Ex: Michael Thomas & John Spivey. Wit: Francis Hobson & Wm.
Summers
: 1729, Moved from Nansemond Co., VA to Bertie Co., NC (Source: The Thomas
& Bridges Story; Thomas)
: 1720, Purchased 200A on S side of Cashie Swamp from Samuel Bass (Source:
Bertie Co., NC DB G:425)
: 1720, Joseph Thomas to Samuel Bass 175A S side of Oropeak Swamp & 14A
Sand Hill Swamp (Source: Bertie Co., NC DB G:425)

Children of Joseph Thomas and Alice Spivey are:
14 i. Joseph4 Thomas , Jr. (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas),
died 1758 in Bertie Co., NC (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
He married Ann (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

More About Joseph Thomas , Jr.:
: Apr 1758, Ex: widow Ann, Thomas Whitness & Arthur Williams

15 ii. Michael Thomas I, born ca 1710 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story;
Thomas); died 1802 in VA (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married (1) ? Bef. 1792 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married (2) Elizabeth Staton 1792 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story;
Thomas).
16 iii. Luke Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas), died Jul
1751 in Edgecomb Co., NC (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

More About Luke Thomas:
: Never married (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas)

17 iv. James Thomas I, born ca 1714 in Nansemond Co., VA (Source: The
Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas); died 1780 in Bertie Co., NC (Source: The
Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He married Sarah Barnes ca 1741 (Source:
The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
18 v. Jacob Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas), died in
Edgecomb Co., NC (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
19 vi. Jonas Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
20 vii. Charity Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
21 viii. Mary Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

8. Barnaby3 Thomas (Susannah2 Portis, John1). (Source: The Thomas &
Bridges Story; Thomas) He married Sarah Dawson (Source: The Thomas &
Bridges Story; Thomas).

Child of Barnaby Thomas and Sarah Dawson is:
22 i. Elisha4 Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

9. Elizabeth3 Thomas (Susannah2 Portis, John1). (Source: The Thomas &
Bridges Story; Thomas) She married (1) John Dawson , I, Col. (Source:
17th Century Isle of Wight; Boddie), son of Henry Dawson and Martha Martin.
She married (2) John Boddie in #1 (Source: 17th Century Isle of Wight;
Boddie).

Notes for John Dawson , I, Col.:
DB 1:175
John Dawson of Northampton Co. to William Cannady and Judith Cannady his
wife of Edgecomb Co., NC 7 Apr 1744. 3 pds 10 nshillings current money of
VA, 100A more or less a certain plantstion of ours, on Uraha Swamp, joining
the mouth of a branch, the edge of a pocosin, James Hutcherson, and the
swamp. Wit: William Boddie, John BASS, Jacob BASS. Reg Feb Ct. 1744.

Children of Elizabeth Thomas and John Dawson are:
23 i. Elizabeth4 Dawson (Source: 17th Century Isle of Wight; Boddie). She
married William Kinchen II (Source: 17th Century Isle of Wight; Boddie).
24 ii. Henry Dawson (Source: Wb 1:69 Northampton Co., NC).

Descendants of Thomas Morris

Generation No. 1

1. Thomas1 Morris died ca 1772 in Brunswick Co., VA (Source: Reliques of
Rives; Childs). He married Boyce.

More About Thomas Morris:
: 1772, Will dated

Children of Thomas Morris and Boyce are:
+ 2 i. Boyce2 Morris.
3 ii. Chisholm Morris (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).
4 iii. Henry Morris (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs). He married
Phoebe Claud 12 Dec 1782 in Southampton Co., VA (Source: Southampton Co.,
VA, WB 4:631. & MR).
+ 5 iv. Bathia Morris.
+ 6 v. Sukey Morris.
+ 7 vi. Sarah Morris.
8 vii. Jabez Morris (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).
+ 9 viii. Agnis Morris.

Generation No. 2

2. Boyce2 Morris (Thomas1). (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs) She
married William Rives, son of Thomas Rives.

More About William Rives:
: 1772, Suit against Drury Bass in Brunswick Co. (Source: Reliques of
Rives)

Children of Boyce Morris and William Rives are:
10 i. Winifred3 Rives, born ca 1765 (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).
She married James Hinton 16 Dec 1786 in Greensville Co., VA (Source: MB
Greensville Co., VA).
11 ii. Sarah Rives, born ca 1768 (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs). She
married William Collier 10 Jan 1789 in Greensville Co., VA (Source: MB
Greensville Co., VA).
12 iii. John Rives, born ca 1770 (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs). He
married Mourning Perry 28 Nov 1799 in Greenville Co., VA (Source: MB
Greensville Co., VA).
13 iv. William Dymer Rives, born ca 1772 (Source: Reliques of Rives;
Childs). He married Lucy Jeter 25 Feb 1803 in Greenville Co., VA (Source:
MB Greensville Co., VA).

5. Bathia2 Morris (Thomas1). (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs) She
married John Brewer (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).

Child of Bathia Morris and John Brewer is:
14 i. Ann3 Brewer (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).

6. Sukey2 Morris (Thomas1). (Source: WB 3:319 Southampton Co., VA) She
married ? Eppes.

More About Sukey Morris:
: 1781, Left property by James Lundy (Source: Southampton Co., VA, WB
3:319.)

Child of Sukey Morris and ? Eppes is:
15 i. Thomas3 Eppes (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).

7. Sarah2 Morris (Thomas1). (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs) She
married ? Davis.

Child of Sarah Morris and ? Davis is:
16 i. Rebecca3 Davis (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs).

9. Agnis2 Morris (Thomas1). (Source: Reliques of Rives; Childs) She
married (1) Samuel Alsobrook III Bef. 1735 (Source: WB A:93 Sussex Co.,
VA), son of Samuel Alsobrook and Joan Howell. She married (2) Arthur Bass
Bef. 07 Sep 1759 (Source: WB A:137 Sussex Co., VA), son of Charles Bass and
? Thorpe?.

More About Samuel Alsobrook III:
: 21 Apr 1758, Inventory of estate by James Wyche, Joseph Thorpe & Major
Tiller (Source: WB A:93 Sussex Co., VA)

More About Arthur Bass:
: 1797, Sold land to Lewis Thorpe in Sussex Co., VA
: 1767, Arthur Bass of Brunswick to Thos. Moniss (Source: DB 8:503
Brunswick Co., VA)
: May 1793, Grantor Greensville Co., VA
: 09 Jun 1768, Thomas Peete vs Arthur Bass, deft no inhabitant of
Southampton (Source: OB 1768-1772:69 Southampton Co., VA)
: 1782, Census 9 whites & 3 blacks Sussex Co., VA
: 16 Aug 1764, Inv estate of John Rawlings, Jr.; Joseph Tharp, Major
Tiller, Arthur Bass (Source: Sussex Co., VA WB A 1754-1764:6)
: 1790, Census w/9 in family; Sussex Co. (Source: 1790 Census Sussex Co.,
VA)

Children of Agnis Morris and Samuel Alsobrook are:
17 i. John3 Alsobrook, born Aft. 1735 (Source: OB 1757-1761 Sussex Co., VA
P. 196).

More About John Alsobrook:
: Aug 1758, Thomas Morris guardian; Major Tillor Sec. (Source: OB 1757-1761
Sussex Co., VA P. 196)

18 ii. Mary Alsobrook, born Aft. 1735 (Source: OB 1757-1761 Sussex Co., VA
P. 196).

More About Mary Alsobrook:
: Aug 1758, Thomas Morris guardian; Major Tillor Sec. (Source: OB 1757-1761
Sussex Co., VA P. 196)

19 iii. Elizabeth Alsobrook, born Aft. 1735 (Source: OB 1757-1761 Sussex
Co., VA P. 196).

More About Elizabeth Alsobrook:
: Aug 1758, Thomas Morris guardian; Major Tillor Sec. (Source: OB 1757-1761
Sussex Co., VA P. 196)

Children of Agnis Morris and Arthur Bass are:
20 i. Creasy3 Bass (Source: WB 3:319 Southampton Co., VA).

More About Creasy Bass:
: 1781, Left property by James Lundy (Source: WB 3:319 Southampton Co., VA)

21 ii. Thomas Bass (Source: WB 3:284 Southampton Co., VA). He POSSIBLY
married Sarah English 1788 in Southampton Co., VA (Source: MR Southampton
Co., VA).		07/23/1997 7:58:00
Williamson RaineyBill of Sale

Lewis Poythress to Lewis Y. Poythress & Thomas Poythress

September 14, 1845

Know all men by these presents that I Lewis Poythress, Jr. for and
consideration of my natural estimation and love for my two youngest [?] sons
Lewis and Thomas Poythress and in the further consideration of the sum of one
dollar to me in hand
paid by them the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged do give unto my sons
above named one tract of land containing by estimation one hundred forty
acres bounded as follows (virg) by the land of Charles D. Chalam and John
Giles and DAVID POYTHRESS, WILLIAMSON RAINEY SR. together with one yoke of
oxen, one cow and calf, oxcart, one box of furniture, forever free from the
claim or claims of all and any person whatsoever upon the condition however
that my said sons Lewis and Thomas do bond themselves to keep me the said
Lewis Poythress and my wife Rebecca Poythress free from want the remainder of
our lives from the adversity of the above land and other property. In
testimony whereof I have here unto set my hand and seal this 14th day of
September, 1845.

Lewis Poythress
Lewis V. Poythress
Thomas M. Poythress

(Deed recorded Clerk of Mecklinburg, R. B. Baptist, 14 Sept. 1845)

Comments:

1) here is the Rainey fellow again, with adjoining land.

2) source of document: Barbara Wolfe, it was between photocopies of Meck.
documents you sent to me. I'm guessing its from you.

3) in my "SCENARIO"......this is the Lewis brother of Meredith and son of
Thomas (our Thomas of the chase). He is the Lewis who remained in Meckenburg
County. He is, by 1845, getting on in years and the tone of this deed
implies that pretty clearly. He is deeding property for nominal value to his
sons Lewis Y. Poythress and Thomas M. Poythress.

Lewis Y. may not technically be a Junior but this document clearly makes him
a son along with Thomas M. Poythress. I'll make it 9 to 2 if we ever get to
the bottom of this one Thomas is named for his grandfather and the "M" stands
for Meredith.

4) may I assume that we already knew that Lewis' wife WAS named Rebecca?

5) earlier (15 August 1845) Lewis Poythress, with the approval of spouse
Rebecca B. Poythress, sold to David Poythress 143 acres for $ 215.25. If
Lewis Y. and Thomas M. of the later deed are identified as "younger" sons of
Lewis, is it fair to put this David down as the "older" son with a qualifying
question mark? Admittedly the
$ 215.25 mitigates against this. Still, IF this assumption is later proved,
BPN et al, is this YOUR link to Lewis, brother of George, or do you already
have that?

Maynard		07/23/1997 8:29:51
Re: Sources for Claims, PleaseHey, Alice...glad to hear from you. And I predict that after about 6 months
of seeing all the neat stuff she is missing, your mother is going to 'rassle
that 486 right out of your hands.

This is for your mother......Martha:

I think Lyn was "aiming" more at me than you.

I have staked out what now appears to be shaky ground: that there were only
two Thomases including the one who styled himself "Jr." and the Brunswick
county man for whom the paper trail seems to be growing every day. This
Brunswick county Thomas may indeed have had a father named Thomas but we
don't know that yet.

My theory is that there are only Brunswick's Thomas and Thomas, Jr. between
ca 1740 and 1800 and that they both came to Georgia where the elder Thomas
became sheriff of Burke County and died in office in 1800. There may indeed
have been a Thomas before Brunswick's "our" Thomas but he is not sqeezed in
there in that 60 year window with the other two and that is my "theory".

The "three Thomas" folks are coming out of the woodwork. My ground is not
only shaky but it is taking flack from just about everybody on the wire. I'm
going to continue to defend it merely as a "thesis"....I WAS going to invite
all comers to play devil's advocate. True to form for this group of
roughnecks, that invitation was totally unnecessary, they came anyway...with
guns 'ablazing.

The first counter shot was when Al Tims demonstrated that Thomas Washington
(one of the guys who examined Martha "privily" to get her okay to sell the
land to Hicks) was indeed in Brunswick County, not as I speculated....sitting
at home in the Burke County courthouse waiting to run an errand on behalf of
the Brunswick court.

Barbara Neal signed on next with the observation that those extended time
frames in that Hicks deed and the trailing paperwork were not particularly
abnormal....and made a good case.

So.....Martha if you want to get in your licks too, you are in heavy duty
company.

So, as General McClellan was wont to say I'm in the process of "change of
base", not retreat. Over my shoulder, running hard and breathing heavy, I'll
just offer some comments when I answer Lyn's questions....or perhaps better
said, TRY to answer Lyn's questions.

Best,

Maynard

Best,

Maynard		07/23/1997 8:30:18
"Joseph" PoythressAl Tims

Al....Joseph confused for Joshua?

I say yes mainly because the purchase of Flowerdew by Joshua is recorded in
about a million places....just as BPW said.

I have read that paragraph enough now to know it by heart and I still don't
know what the author means. It looks to me like he got so tangled up in his
syntax that we are not likely to find out precisely what he did mean. If I
had to guess it would be by process of elimination: if he said Joseph and
meant Joshua, well, we know for a fact that Joshua didn't move to Mecklenburg
and we haven't found a Joseph in Mecklenburg (at least not yet)....so that
would imply to me that he meant Hardiman.

And if we don't have a Hardiman in Mecklenburg either ( I don't know that)
then I wouldn't have to be pressed too hard to believe the author meant Jones
in BOTH sentences. His first sentence was just so long and twisted he forgot
who the original "subject" was and doubled back on himself. My experience in
tight calls like this one has been woeful trying to lean on technically
correct grammar from folks who wrote a lot of those articles.

I would also suggest article writers may or may not have a great respect for
correct
history and names when they are on their primary family; material on allied
families almost always gets short shrift. And lets face it, for this guy
Poythresses were just the backdrop.

I have a similar suspected error in Virginia Gazette. On July 29, 1772
George Noble and Joshua Poythress, administrators, are advertising Wilkins
Ferry on the James R. to let. Later, in an auction for a lease to be held on
November 28, 1778,
a practically identical advertisement is run by George Noble and Joseph
Poythress.

Six years is enough of a "window" for a Joseph to come on the scene....but it
seems highly unlikely to be enough of a window to oust Joshua from his
"administrator" relationship with George Noble, insert himself into that
role, and also gain "rights" to the ferry plus the 138 acres of land that
went with the ferry.

I'd say simply slip of the pen....in both cases.

Maynard		07/23/1997 8:32:25
Augusta ChronicleBPN

Barbara, you were particularly interested in this. I finally got the Augusta
Library and they don't make more than 5 copies and we need about 50+. I
asked: 5 at a time, or 5 per day, or what? Ans: just 5. MP: does that mean
5 per lifetime? Ans.: well, I guess so, but you can get all the rolls of
microfilm one at a time thru inter-library loan. MP: how many rolls? Ans.:
about 15. MP: no wonder we lost the war....

MP continuing: say, I'll be staying in Augusta 8/18 while my wife visits her
mother in St. John's Towers in Augusta, does that offer any possibilities?
Ans.: oh, sure, we are less than a block from St. John's Towers and if you
actually come into the library we do the copying for you and its as many as
you want, no charge.

Now there is a bunch of folks that sho 'nuff don't want to do business
through the mail! I'll get copies on 8/18, post couple days later when I get
home.

Maynard		07/23/1997 9:15:24
Family Reunion-Screven CountyWill be attending Poythress Screven/Burke/Effingham family reunion at McBride
Methodist Church, Sylvania, Georgia afternoon of 8/17 (Sunday). Church
service is brief and exceptionally well done. Its not too difficult for all
the out of town P's to pack the church as I think it seats all of about 75.
Service is followed by barbeque and socializing in the air conditioned
activity hall.

Jean and I will be going down there from Atlanta on Saturday and will stay at
the high rise downtown Sylvania Day's Inn. Will enjoy assorted cousins and
chullun of all ages and sizes. Saturday night pig-out puts away a boatload
of those three-hours-out-of-the-ocean shrimp fried in death dealing
carcinogens....hopefully neutralized by a wee scotch or two.

Bud, you are the likeliest suspect and I would love to think you could make
it...duh, just looked at map..it wasn't any big deal from Lavonia but
Wilmington is a tad further. Anyway, would love having you if you can make
it. I WAS told that since you moved to North Carolina you had forgotten how
to blow gnats with your bottom lip...so at the Effingham County deal for your
crowd this summer you sucked down all the gnats in S. Ga. and the tourist
trade is up 20%.

Same invitation applies with much joy to any of you all within striking
distance of Sylvania. Just say the word and I'll send you map, etc.

Maynard		07/23/1997 9:16:25
Re: Flowerdew Hundred BookCraig R. ScottFor those who had an interest in the Flowerdew Hundred books, they arrived
yesterday.

The softcover edition costs $12.95 + $3.00 s&h.

The hardcover edition costs $30.00 + $4.00 s&h (the orginial price I quoted
was $26.50; I was incorrect).

Plese send me (not the list) your preferences and I will put them in the mail.

Thanks.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		07/23/1997 9:18:02
Re: Williamson RaineyRe Francis Poythress (Methodist Minister/Circuit Rider)

Al & Lyn & Jean Spille.....

Can't we almost say for certain that this particular Francis (who died a
batchelor in KY) is the same one we had several exchanges on about a month or
so ago?

If he is, we 3 have considerable information on him. Other than finding out
his parentage (which as I recall we did but I can't remember it now) this
Francis had considerable historical interest but almost zilch genealogical
interest.

Maynard		07/23/1997 9:36:14
Augusta ChronicleCharles NealMaynard,

Bless you for making the side-trip to help those folks avoid having to do
business thru the mail. Look forward to whatever we can learn from the
Augusta Chronicle mentions.

Wish I could join you folks at the Reunion, but not this year.
Ay!
BPN 7/23/97		07/23/1997 10:45:01
More Thomas Poythress Deeds!!Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison has, once again, opened new vistas for our work! Below are
several deeds she has extracted for us. I'm working on a comparison of
these property locations with earlier grants and patents. I think we're
going to have a match!

Three cheers for Carol!!

Best,
Al Tims
Al,

Here are some Poythress references in Brunswick Co., that I was telling
you about.....

[DB13, page 1, Brunswick Co., VA] (NOTE: This land should be in present
day Greensville Co., VA) --

Indenture made this thirteenth Day of May One Thousand Seven Hundred and
seventy three Between Thomas Poythress of Martin's Brandon Parish in
Prince George County of the one part and William Rives Son of George
Rives deceased in Meherrin Parish and the County of Brunswick of the
other part Witnesseth that the said Thomas Poythress for and in
Consideration of the Sum of One hundred and fifty Pounds Current Money
of Virginia to him in hand paid by the said William Rives. . . sell
alien and Confirm unto the said William Rives. . . one Tract or parcel
of Land situate lying and being in the said Parish of Meherrin and
aforesaid County of Brunswick adjoining the Lands of Benjamin Rives and
Richard Woodroof lying upon the Beaver Pond Creek containing two
hundred and seventy four Acres be the same more or less . . .
Signed Thomas Poythress. Wit: James Young, William Rives,
Benjamin Rives. Court 22 November 1773, Indenture partly proved
by the Oaths of James Young and William Rives.

[DB10, page 274, Brunswick County, VA] --
Indenture made the twenty third Day of November one thousand seven
hundred and seventy one betw. John Morton Junior of the County of
Brunswick of the one part and Peter Poythress of the County of Prince
George of the other Part, for sum of six Pounds, sell to Peter
Poythress, six acres of Land be the same more or less lying and being on
Nottoway River and in the aforesaid County of Brunswick and is bounded
as followeth, to wit, Beginning on the said River Nottoway from thence
along a Line of Marked trees made by the said parties to the Roky (sic)
run Thence Down the said Rocky run to the said River Nottoway thence up
the said River to the Beginning. Signed John Morton Jr. Wit: Jas.
Lindsey, Bartho. Dameron, Wm. Manies. Court 25 November 1771, Indenture
proved by the oaths of James Lindsey, Bartholomew Dameron and William
Manies.

DB 11, page 239, Brunswick Co., VA -- [NOTE: This should also be in
present day Greensville Co., VA]

Indenture made the Sixth Day of July 1773, betw. Thomas Poythress of
Prince George County Virginia and John Dawson of Brunswick County, for
Four Hundred Pounds, sells to John Dawson, Two Certain Tracts,
Containing by Estimation five hundred and Twenty five acres, Begining at
a Gum on the East side of the Cane Branch thence East by south forty
four Poles to a black oak thence north seventy five Degrees East Twenty
eight poles to a white oak thence North Eighty five Degrees East fifty
four Pole to a Red oak thence North seventy five Degrees East fifty
seven pole to a Red oak thence North by West Eighty Nine poles to a
White Oak thence north west by West one Hundred and seventy seven
poles to a Black oak thence south west by west Eighty six Poles to
a Maple by the side of the Cane Branch aforesaid and Down the
Various Courses of the Run of the said Branch to the Begining
Containing two Hundred acres, part of the above mentioned five
Hundred and Twenty five Acres also one other Tract or Parcel of
Land Containg by Estamation three hundred and Twenty five Acres
Bounded by the above mentioned tract of Two Hundred acres of Land
to wite Begining at a Sasafrass and Holly by the side of
fountains Creek a Corner of James Chapples Land Thence by
Chappells line North Two Hundred and thirty six poles to a Black
Oak and North East Sixty Six poles to a Maple by the side of
Great Swamp thence up the Various Courses of the said swamp to a
Marked Live Oake a Corner of William Doughlas's Land thence by
Doughlas's Line North Eight degrees West fifty four Pole to a
Black a Corner of Samuel Clark's Land thence by Clarke's Line
south west by west one Hundred and sixty Poles to an Hickory,
thence south Twenty Eight Degrees West Sixty two Poles to a Maple
by the side of the Cane Branch a Corner of the above tract of Two
Hundred Acres of Land thence along the said Land North East by
East Eighty Six Poles to a Black oak, south East by East one
hundred and seventy seven poles to a White Oak south By East
Eighty Nine poles to a Red Oak south seventy five Degrees West
fifty seven Poles to a Red Oak, south Eighty five Degrees West
fifty four Pole to an White Oak south seventy five Degrees West
Twenty Eight Degrees Poles to a Black Oak and west by North forty
four Poles to a Gum by the side of Fountain's Creek Just against
the Mouth of the Cane Branch and down the various Courses of the
Run of the said Creek to the Begining. Signed Thomas Poythriss.
Wit: David Edmunds, Howell Edmunds, David Edmunds, Jr.
Memorandum that on the 6 day of July 1773, Thomas Poythress did
deliver to John Dawson quiet and peasible possession and seisin.
Signed Thomas Poythress. Wit: David Edmunds, Howell Edmunds, and
David Edmunds, Junr. July 6, 1773, Received of John Dawson, the
sum of Four Hundred pounds. Signed Thomas Poythress. Court 24
January 1774, Indenture, Memorandum, from Thomas Poythress to
John Dawson proved by oaths of David Edmund and David Edmunds,
Junr. and at Court 28 February following proved by oath of Howell
Edmunds and OTBR (ordered to be recorded).		07/23/1997 12:45:00
PortisLea L. DowdMy cousin Sarah was really terrific and found these citations and Lou, I am
sure that you will know some of the people. If someone sees a connection of
the Portis to the Davis & Marshall families, I would appreciate knowing the
connection. I descend from David Marthall and Mary Davis.

Thanks,
Lea

16 Mar 1761
Halifax Co., NC
"THOMAS DAVIS of Halifax Co. to DAVID MARSHAL and MARY his wife of same.
For 'natural love and good will.' 520 acres originally granted 30 June
1760. THOMAS DAVIS. Wit: SAMUEL DISPAIN, WILL PORTIS, JACOB WATSON. Mar Ct.
1761" Halifax Co. Deed Book 7, 222
The Deeds of Halifax County, North Carolina, 1758-1771, Abstracted by Dr.
Stephen E. Bradley, Jr., p. 20.

27 Nov. 1764
Halifax Co., NC
DB 9, p. 191: "Samuel Dispain of Halifax Co. to William HADLEY of same. 27
Nov. 1764. £50 proclamation money. 100 acres which sd DISPAIN had purchased
from ARTHUR DAVIS 18 Nov 1755, joining Great Fishing Creek. Samuel Dispain
(X). Wit: Arthur Davis, David Marshall, Joseph Hadley (X) Apr Ct. 1765"
The Deeds of Halifax County, North Carolina, 1758-1771, Abstracted by Dr.
Stephen E. Bradley, Jr., p. 78

26 (?) June 1750
Brunswick Co., VA
DB 4, p. 171. Deed from Samuel Dispain of Brunswick Co., VA to Samuel
Marshall of Brunswick Co., VA. £30 VA. 200 acres in Brunswick Co. on south
side of Mathreen (?) River; granted to Samuel Dispain by patent 17 Aug.
1748. Beg. in William Maclin's corner white oak on the river then along the
said line south 39 degrees west 34 poles to Pennington's corner white oak
thence along the said line South 22 degrees east 116 poles to a small
hickory thence east 220 poles to a white oak on John Ezell's line thence
north 7 degrees east 138 poles to a beech on the said river thence up as it
meandereth to the beginning. Wit: Andrew (?) Metcalfe, Anthony Metcalfe, M
Cadet Young.
Copy of deed as recorded in deed book.

Jan Ct. 1765
Halifax Co., NC
WB 1, p. 153 Thomas Davis WW 29 Sept. 1764
"son Frederick Davis 2 tracts upon Sandy creek in Bertie Co. and the 132
acres joining which I bought of John Watson and 100 acres I bought of John
---(?). son Goodwen Davis land and plantation whereon William Davis now
lives containing 200 acres and 700 acres in Bertie Co. joining Daniel
Nance. wife use of plantation and still during her life or Widowhood and at
her decease the same to go to my SON DOLPHIN DAVIS. son Dolphin land in
Halifax Co. and Edgecombe Co. and Bute joining James Ransom, GEORGE PORTIS
and Lewis Davis. SON THOMAS DAVIS plantation in Bute I bought of John
Watson being 170 acres and the land I bought of Arthur Watson and the 700
acres joining Benjamin Wheelison and 640 acres joining Robert Hill. SON
ARCHIBALD DAVIS the land I bought of John ---(?) and the land on White Oak
swamp in Edgecombe and Bute. SON ORINDATUS DAVIS rest of my Lands. NEPHEW
DIOCLESIAN DAVIS SON OF LEWIS DAVIS negro girl and her increas. DAUGHTER
SALLY DAVIS slave. wife use of other negroes and their increase during her
natural life. residue of estate to go for maintainance of wife and children
and to educate children. should wife marry my household goods are to be
equally divided among my 7 children when the (sic) arrive at 21 or marry.
BROTHER LEWIS DAVIS money. friends Joseph Montfort and Blake Baker 30
pounds each. Wit: SAMUEL DAVIS, Abraham Green, John Green, Thomas Mann.
Extrs: Joseph Montfort, Blake Baker and LEWIS DAVIS."
Margaret M. Hoffman, Genealogical Abstracts of Wills, 1758-1824, Halifax
County, North Carolina, 1970, p. 22		07/24/1997 1:30:33
"Albert R. Tims" : Re: Williamson RaineyPoythress List...

Al, of course any possible connection will be interesting. However, this
part of Virginia was a hotbed of early Methodism. Most of the known
church affiliations of my ancestors are Methodist affiliations. In this
area even today Methodist churches dot the countryside the way
Presbyterian churches dot the Valley of Virginia and Baptist churches dot
many other sections of the South. In this region it might be easier to
find connections among non-Methodists than among Methodists. -Lyn

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "Albert R. Tims"
To: , "Lyn P Baird"
Subject: Re: Williamson Rainey
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:06:57 -0500
Message-ID: <199707230705.CAA17382@t-rex.minn.net>

Poythress List,

Lyn Baird wrote:

"Williamson Rainey was a Revolutionary soldier and a Christian layman
instrumental in establishing the Methodist sect in eastern Mecklenburg.
His will was probated in Mecklenburg in 1847."

Lyn, this is interesting in light of the following Poythress information:

An Unusual Valentine -- An Anointed Vessel From: "History of the
Methodist
Episcopal Church," Vol. IV, Book V, Chapter XIX, by Abel Stevens

"In 1798 Bird and Poythress lead, as presiding elders, the Holston corps,
though there is yet but one district; and we meet again the tireless
Valentine Cook at the head of the solitary district which comprises the
more western field, with its six long circuits and seven itinerants."

The list below, taken from "A History of the Methodist Episcopal Church,"
Volume IV, by Dr.
Nathan Bangs, includes: "all the preachers who were received into full
connection in the Methodist
Episcopal Church to the year 1840, including those who came from Europe
and
returned, as well as
those who remained in this country." While the Methodist Episcopal Church
was not organized until
1784, some of the preachers on this list entered the Methodist ministry
long before that. Especially is
this true of those who came from England, one of whom was "received" in
the
year 1762. Thus, the
range of years shown above is from the year 1762 to the year 1840.

Poythress, Francis -- Received 1776, Located 1801

These two records show that Francis Poythress entered the MEC prior to
its
organization in 1784 and that he was a "presiding elder" by 1798.
Chances
are that we might well find more on the Francis Poythress in the various
archives of the Methodist Church. Would be interesting to explore this
potential source of a relationship between Rainey and Poythress.

Best,

Al Tims

--------- End forwarded message ----------		07/24/1997 1:42:13
Re: PortisCaroline, sorry but I do not have more on this John Poythress. I write
"Poythress" because with the spellings "Portis" and "Potess" referencing
what I guess to be the same estate, and with no other evidence for a
separate Portis surname in this region, I surmise this to be just another
example of the corruption of our dear surname. -LPB

On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:37:08 -0400 (EDT) CarBurCo@aol.com writes:
>Lyn,
>
> Is that the only mention you have of the name Portis? I.E. do you
>have
>anything on his family, parents, bros, sisters, children? That is
>close to
>the lost Portis of mine, but he could not be her father as she was
>born in
>1763. Any others?
>
>
>Caroline
>		07/24/1997 3:06:20
"portuguese" as a raceJean SpilleLea,

As with so many tri-racial isolate groups, labels are attached to call
them anything but ""white". "Portuguese" has been used in other
instances. A friend, Elwood Stith, shared this and I will past it on
to the list:
Subject: Something else to ponder
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:47:19 -0400
From: "STITH, ELWOOD C"
To: "'samlin@webtv.net'"

See what happens when they allowed us to acqiure reading skills:

This use of the term "Portuguese" for a mixed-race person accepted as
white was used as early as October 1812 when the Marion District,
South
Carolina Court of Common Pleas ruled that Thomas Hagans did not have
to
pay the levy on "Free Negros" because he was Portuguese [NCGSJ
IX:259].
Thomas was the son of Zachariah Hagins, a "Mulatto" bound out in
Johnston County Court in October 1760 [Haun, Johnston County Court
Minutes, I:46].
Elwood C. Stith

Here is another from the Melungeon discussion list ( some of whom, by
the way, ascribe to the theory that they are of Portuguese descent)
The document below was also filed in MARION County, ARKANSAS on June
26, 1843
at YELLVILLE, AR, the county seat of Marion County and in OREGON
County,
MISSOURI on February 13, 1850 and refiled on May 5, 1890 in HOWELL
County,
Missouri, after his death.

THOMAS HALL died December 30, 1888 at South Fork, HOWELL County,
MISSOURI.

September 19, 1935 MAURY COUNTY, TENNESSEE
(Typed exactly as written)

PROOF OF RACE AFFIDAVIT
FILED IN MARION COUNTY, ARKANSAS at YELLEVILLE, ARKANSAS,
OREGON COUNTY and HOWELL COUNTY, MISSOURI at WEST PLAINS, MISSOURI.

State of Tennessee, Maury County, this day personally
appeared
before me, James L. Crawford one of the Justice of the Peace
and for said county, THOMAS HALL and made part of
private testimony that the said THOMAS HALL is intitled
to all the privileges of a private citizen. THOMAS HALL'S
great grandfather on his fathers sid was a PORTAGEE.
His great grandfather on his mother's sid was an INGLISH
man and THOMAS HALL grand on his father's sid was
of the PORTAGEE decent and his grandfather on his
mother's sid was an IRISHMAN and his own father was of the
PORTAGEE decent and his mother was a WHITE AMERICAN BORN
WOMAN. Sworn to and executed before me this 19th day
of September 1835.
James L. Crawford J.P.		07/24/1997 3:41:01
Bethany SchoolJean SpilleSince Lea posted the Bethany records I have collected, I will share
with you a personal experience of a former Bethany Student. People
who attended this school still carry the scars of
discrimination...including a fair number of Poythresses and Poythress
cousins. I am in personal contact with a growing number of students
and descendents of students.

Yes, I grew up in Northampton County and needless to say I'm not proud
of
it. My own family was subjected to racial slurs and discrimination
because
of a decision/agreement made many years before we were born. There was
and
still is, much bitterness among the people who lived there because of
the
injustice it caused even though many have succeeded in having the word
"Portuguese" removed from their birth records. People felt early on
that
that decision should never have been made because it affected the next
generation and generations to come and so much could have been done to
change it. Not my parents or even my grandparents, but the people
before
them are to blame for not taking a stand. I feel, that the bottomline
is
they were a (A people Divided), and brought it all on themselves
because
they didn't stand up for their rights or support each other.

I want to thank you for all your help. I knew someone, somewhere,
had to
know something about these people and the information from you appears
most
accurate.

Another comment on Bethany:
>I have always wanted to trace my family roots also. As a child I begged
>and pleaded for information on how I came to be called "Portuguese". My
>mother, (she never learned to read or write), told me what she could but
>for the most part was vague. My father refused to even mention it. I did
>learn that the people left that meeting and vowed to start their own
>schools and churches. Which is what they did. They were a very proud people
>back then. By the time I was school age, Bethany School had deteriorated to
>a dump and at one time It had no teacher. The teacher I had was called a
>Miss Ola Crew - a poor substitute for a teacher - I only remember my first
>school years as being painful, shameful, and degrading.

And yet another:
It was most likely
that Northampton Co dedcided that 6th grade was all those people
deserved.

There's much bitterness among members of my family about the injustice
of
it all and being denied the right to an education beyond 6th grade.
There
was no Civil Rights Act for the people called "Portuguese"
They were US citizens. It should not have been allowed to happen in
The
United States of America.

Now these are not quotes from yesteryear. I received all these within
the last week.

Jean		07/24/1997 3:53:36
Yet Another Thomas Poythress Deed!!Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Admiration for Carol Morrison continues to grow at an exponential rate!
Below is yet another deed for Thomas Poythress. The described property
looks like it "might" be the same property we see Thomas & Martha (perhaps
a son, perhaps not) selling to George Hicks in 1795. Certainly merits
careful study!

Best,
Al Tims
Here is another one for you-----

This Indenture made this 12th Day of August 1791 BETWEEN Thomas Clary of
Brunswick County of the one part and Thomas Poythress of the same County
of the other part . . . for and in consideration of the sum of thirty
seven pounds . . . doth bargain sale and confirm unto the said Thomas
Poythriss . . . one certain tract or parcel of land containing eighty
five acres . . . lying and being in the County aforesaid and is bounded
as follows to wit BEGINNING at Wesson corner white oak on Rattle Snake
Creek the white oak being down have made a corner of a hicory thence by
his line to a corner hicory thence by George Hearnes line West to a
corner red oak on John Sewards line thence by the said Sewards line to a
corner sweet gum on the [ ] creek as aforesaid thence by the
meanders of the creek to the BEGINNING . . . Signed by Thos. Clary
(his mark) and Seally Clary (her mark). Brunswick County Court September
26th 1791. This Indenture of Bargain and Sale was acknowledged by Thos.
Clary party thereto to be his act & deed & ordered to be recorded. Deed
Book 15, page 135, Brunswick County, Virginia.

Carol		07/24/1997 5:57:21
Baird/Phillipswayne scruggsPoythress List,Lyn & John Baird,

Lyn this is in response to your question to John. You wanted to know
more about Charles William Baird and Mary Archer Hansard Phillips.I can
tell you a little about the children. Maybe this will help.

Mary Hansard,daughter of Richard Hansard & Sarah Speed Hansard was born
and married in Mecklenberg Co.,Va. First to Archer Phillips, who died
leaving two sons, D.P.Phillips, of Grenada ,Ms.,and Archer Phillips, a
merchant of Durhamville, Tn. Mary married again to Charles William
Baird, and left two children Charles & Eliza Partridge Baird. Charles
Baird taught school a number of years at Durhamville,Tn.,where he died.
I have no dates. Their daughter Eliza was born 1818. She married Thomas
H.Raney, in 1836. At the age of 74 she was living in Kittrells,Granville
Co.,N.C. Her children were:
1.
Mary A.,married John Debnan and had 6 children:
Lula,Thomas,George,Elizabeth,Hattie and Carrie.
2. Charles William,Married Sallie Kittrell.
3. Hal,killed during Civil War.
4. Alice, died a child
5. Lucy Speed, married Mr.Tilly. she died leaving 1 child, Thomas.
6. Hattie,married Samuel Bridges and had 4 children.
7. Anna,married Julien Hines, had 4 children.
8. Laura,died young.
9. Thomas,married Dora Tilly, had 5 children.
10. Cora,married John Leigh Hunt. She died and Mr. Hunt married Rosa,
the next younger sister of Cora.She had 3 children.
11. Rosa (see above)
12. Richard Beverly,unmarried.

I have nothing on the son, Charle Baird,brother of Eliza P. Baird Raney,
except that he taught school in Tn.

Could this be some of the Williamson Rainey people we are looking for,
only spelled different?

Al, I find nothing on the Peniston, Prior or Pryor families connected to
the Speed Family.

Judy		07/24/1997 8:02:35
Re: Poythress & Pockrus in LAHello Everyone,

Could this James A Poythress be a missing brother to Richard P Poythress of
Northampton Co. NC??? Would have been born 1832 so would have been 28 in LA.

Might be worth researching.

Bruce		07/24/1997 8:14:52
Francis Poythress, MinisterAl:

1) re batchelor status. While we don't have a death certificate, we have the
subject either addressed or by it's omission (of mention or name of wife)
sufficient enough to convince me.

The sources are:

a) The History of Methodism in Kentucky, A. H. Redford, Published 1870, Sou.
Meth. Pub. House, Nashville. "He died unmarried".

b)Those Incredible Methodists, compiled by Commission on Archives and
HIstory, The Baltimore Conference, 1972

c)Methodism in Kentucky by Roy Hunter Short, Bishop, United Methodist Church

d) The Encyclopedia of World Methodism, Noland B. Harmon, Bishop. Pub.
United Methodist Pub. House.

Plus....I think Jean Spille has at least one more.

2) decendancy.....oooh...I either lost it in my files or I never had it.
What we do know: Francis b. 1732 Va. d. 1818 KY at the home of his sister
in Mercer County, Ky. The record does not state which sister. He had two
sisters Elizabeth Poythress Penniston (b. ? Va. d. ? Ky.) and Susanna
Poythress Pryor (b. ? Va. d. ? Ky).

Help me out here, Jean Spille, didn't we use the names of the three siblings
and fairly well pin down who the parents were?

Al, at this point I'm going to dial on a lady with whom I have had some
e-mail correspondence. FPP1802@aol.com is Tara Peniston who lives in
Lexington and is direct descendant of Elizabeth Poythress Peniston. I'm
asking Tara to jump on the list long enough to see if we can link some of
this together....and, of course, stay as long as she wishes as I suspect she
will be most interested. Tara its: http://www1.minn.net/~atims/ for the
Poythress website and it will have instructions for the discussion group.

Maynard		07/24/1997 9:08:22
Re: Poythress & Pockrus in LAAlbert R. TimsBruce,

Re:

> Could this James A Poythress be a missing brother to Richard P Poythress
of
> Northampton Co. NC??? Would have been born 1832 so would have been 28 in
LA.

I need some help here. Can you tell us more about Richard P. Poythress and
family.

Helene Pockrus is going to a reunion in LA later this summer and has plans
to research James A. Poythress. Perhaps Barbara P. Wolfe can remind us
again about the Littleberry Poythress "stray" found in Mississippi in the
1830s. I don't know if we have a connection here, but seems like a stone
worth turning.

Best,
Al Tims		07/24/1997 9:30:47
Williamson RaineyCharles NealMaynard,

My working hypothesis is that the Lewis documents you cited are for the
Lewis who was the brother that George mentioned in his Florida will.

As to my "link," I still have no document linking my gggfather James Edward
Poythress to any of the above, only a hunch/hypothesis that JEP was a son
of Lewis.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

07/24/1997 10:26:30
RE: Where is the connection?Charles NealBruce Porter,

Re your original question of who your James A. Poythress might be kin to,
and re your question of could "this James A Poythress be a missing brother
to Richard P Poythress of Northampton Co. NC??? Would have been born 1832
so would have been 28 in LA. Might be worth researching."

I am not sure who your James Poythress (m. Sarah Crowder 1826; parents of
Richard P. Poythress b.1847) might hook up to, though I am willing to keep
an open mind on possibilities. In the meantime, I have a Crowder question
for you:

Background:
Joshua L. Poythress (b. 10 Nov 1828 in Mecklenburg Co, VA) was the eldest
child of my gggparents (James Edward Poythress, b. 1803 Mecklenburg Co, VA,
& Catherine S. Preston, b. 20 Jan 1800 in Brunswick Co., VA; they married 6
Feb 1828 after getting marriage bond in Brunswick Co). Joshua L. Poythress
married Elizabeth J. Crowder 17 Oct 1852 in Mecklenburg Co, VA after they
got their marriage bond in Warren Co, NC. Soon after marrying, Joshua &
Elizabeth moved along with all Joshua's siblings & his parents & his
cousin James Speed Poythress, down to Sumter County, AL in a wagontrain
trip that took 6 weeks.

Joshua L. Poythress & his wife Elizabeth J. Crowder & their infant son
William Huel Poythress, Jr. (b. 30 Nov 1853 in Sumter Co, AL & named for
Joshua's closest brother William Huel Poythress) all 3 died -- Joshua &
the baby in summer of 1854 & Elizabeth later. Ironically, Joshua's
brother Wm Huel P, died within 2 wks of Joshua's death, apparently of same
illness)

Question:
Was Crowder a really commonly occuring name in the Northampton Co/Warren
Co, NC area then?
Do you know anything about the family of your Sarah Crowder who married in
1826, such as whether your she had brothers, one of whom could have been
father of Elizabeth J. Crowder?

All for now
Barbara Poythress Neal 7/24/97
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		07/24/1997 10:26:34
Re: Poythress & Pockrus in LAMarion & Helene PockrusI'll be in Bossier Parish next month so hope to find that out unless I get
a chance to go to the LDS FHLibrary in SLC after
the boys & their parents leave.
Helene
----------
> From: Portermom1@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Cc: spillej@esper.com
> Subject: Re: Poythress & Pockrus in LA
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 8:14 PM
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Could this James A Poythress be a missing brother to Richard P Poythress
of
> Northampton Co. NC??? Would have been born 1832 so would have been 28 in
LA.
>
> Might be worth researching.
>
> Bruce		07/24/1997 10:59:01
Bethany School in Northampton Co., NCLea L. DowdFYI....

I do beg to differ that these people were not actually Portuguese... Most
that I know had Native American ancestors.... Would love to hear from any
others researching these lines.... Funny how they continue to stick
together.

I will be gone until the 1st, so you haven't gotten rid of me yet. Y'all
have a great weekend and I look forward to seeing what you solve while I am
away.

Lea
lea@gnat.net
Southern Bass
http://www.gnat.net/~lea/

School Cards Bethany Gaston
Lee Harris Teacher

1. Lilli Mae Bass b 1927 Portuguese
parent W.D. (Whalen) Bass, Garysburg
finished 7th grade - married 41-42

2. Hazel Mae Bass Portuguese
Dollie Mae Bass Portuguese
parent Haywood Bass

3. Clifton Hobbs Portuguese
Vilene Hobbs Portuguese
parent Ruffin Hobbs

4. Edward Jarrell, Jr. born Halifax Co.
Fleeta Jarrell
Virginia Jarrell
Parent Edward lived Ft. Bragg
children moved to Raeford

5. Ruth Jarrell
parent R.B. Jarrell

6. Effie Mae Newsom
parent Lonnie Newsom

7. Eva Newsom
parent Zollie Newsom

8. Maggie Newsome
parent Annette Newsome

9. Odell Newsom
papers missing

10. Ora Newsome
parent Zollie Newsom
address: Skippers, Va.
also Racia/Racher Newsom
Walter Newsome Lucy Mae
George Newsome Macon Newsome

11. Ezell Newsome b.1918
papers gone

12. Catherine Peters
parent L.J. Peters

13. Bertha Poythress b. 1927
parent Horace
son Calvin also Robert Lee b/1930

14. Juanita Poythress b 1932
parents J.R. & Mary
Juanita moved to PA.

15. Juanite Poythress b 1933
father Charlie Poythress

16. Anna Lou Scott b 1927
parent Anna Scott
dau Frances 17 in 1940
dau Maelene
dau Viola
did not list all her kids

17. Margaret Rae Scott b1930
married & moved to Wilson Co.
father Adam Scott

18. Asa Turner
father Morris Turner

19. Ballard Turner
father E.J. Turner

20. Celia Turner
father Thomas Turner

21. Buddie Turner
fathr J.R. Turner
lived Roanoke Rapids

22. Bernice Turner
dau Irene Turner

23. Annie Lee Turner
father Lommie
moved to Wilson Co 1948

24. Madgie Turner
father J.R. (Roger) Turner

25, Marshall Turner b 1930
Retha Turner
mother Gracie Turner

26. Edgar Scott
father Ruffin

27. Winnifred Turner died 1940
father E. J.

28. Lewis Bass
father Haywood Bass

all addresses Rt. #1 Garysburg		07/24/1997 11:35:53
Re: Where is the connection?Marion & Helene PockrusI have 2 Crowder girls in TN in White Co., IL. Both born TN1810/1812.
Both married to Hunsingers, who were born in Muhlenberg Co., KY So it
appears the Crowders got around. It appears that John H. Crowder is
possibly their brother. He was from NC. Came to IL in 1829. Just a
trivial I am sure.
Helene		07/24/1997 11:54:16
George POYTHRESS & Woodward, et. al.Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is additional information on the affairs of Benjamin Woodward and
others that led to the identification of Woodward by George Poythress.
(see my earlier posts on this topic). Take note of the other surnames in
the passage quoted below.

Best,
Al Tims

----------------
Counterfeiting in Colonial Virginia, Virginia Historical Magazine, Vol. 61,
1963, pp 32-33.

.....
There can be no doubt that Governor Henry in his letter to Benjamin
Harrison had in mind Benjamin Woodward and others who had been suspected of
counterfeiting in the Colonial Period. On December 4, 1778, he notified
his council that he had received information on oath that "Benjamin
Woodward, Jesse Woodward, Thomas Woodward, Sterling Turner, Edward Walker,
Ambrose Gresham & John Edmondson of Dinwiddie; Drury Burge, John Bonds &
James Hall jun. of Prince George; Lewellin Williamson, Ephraim Peebles,
Churchill Anderson, & Sterling Harris of Brunswick; Joseph Smith of Prince
Edward; Henry Wright of Cumberland; John & Joseph Hightower & Jacob Chavis
of Lunenburg; & Samuel Morgan, Benjamin Alfriend & Francis Woodward of
Amelia, have been guilty of certain offences described in an Act of General
Assembly intitled 'An Act for more effectually guarding against
counterfeiting of the Bills of Credit Treasury Notes or Loan Office
Certificates'." The council advised Henry to issue warrants for the arrest
of all the suspected persons and authorized a reward of four thousand
dollars for the capture of Benjamin Woodward, one thousand for that of
Sterling Turner and three hundred and fifty for the apprehension of each of
the other offenders."

Many years later the search for Benjamin Woodward was still under way and
on June 29, 1790, a proclamation for his arrest for counterfeiting was
issued, with the promise of a reward of $150 for his capture. One of
Woodward's neighbors, John Young, found in the woods several thousand
pounds in North Carolina currency, most of which was signed, and also
implements for counterfeiting and coining, presumably the property of
Woodward. Woodward was in jail in Richmond County, Georgia, when on
September 15, 1791, Robert Dixon, William Nicholson and George
Poythress identified him as Benjamin Woodward, "who was formerly a resident
of Dinwiddie County, in the state of Virginia, and has long been noted for
his vilany for counterfeiting the public papers of that State." He was
apparently released, but Virginia was now offering $400 for his arrest, and
he was taken up at Augusta, Georgia, and brought by Major Longstreet and
Alexander Mc Milean to Richmond. His trial was to be held in Petersburg.
On February 3, 1796, James Innes, in a letter to the governor, referred to
Woodward as the notorious Counterfeiter of Coin as well as of public
papers, an Inhabitant of the County of Dinwiddie, who was apprehended under
a proclamation of the Governor of this State, in Georgia, and delivered
here for the premium of one thousand dollars."

Authorities:
Journal of the House of Delegates of the Commonwealth of Virginia, October
5, 1778; December 19, 1778.
Journals of the Council of the State of Virginia, Ed. by H.E. McIlwaine,
Richmond, 1932, pp. 229-230.
Calendar of Virginia State Papers, V 178, 223, 366, 367 and VII 342.		07/25/1997 1:18:53
Re: MethodismStarrHello all your POYTHRESS researchers,
I feel the need to chime in with this Methodism discussion. ALL the
STARRs who appear in Wilkes Co. GA as early as 1785 were Methodists -- have
several ministers including allied lines in the family down to the current
genreation. To hear my father-in-law talk, they were Methodists BEFORE John
Wesley. Therefore, I'm not sure you'll get very far with this line of
search ... However, there's lots of books about the Methodists in GA and AL
-- abstracts of records, details about various ministers, abstracts from
Methodist newsletters, etc. Sorry I don't know about KY but I suspect if
you (or Craig) looked thru some catalogs you might find some interesting
books to look into for more info in KY. I'm just saying, it's not a
POYTHRESS or Screven Co. thing; the STARRs are traced from Wilkes due west
across most counties to Fayette/Henry and up to Gordon -- and all are
Methodists. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		07/25/1997 2:11:01
Two Further Requests re: Thomas PoythressAttention Poythress List: Two further requests for help regarding Thomas
Poythress:

A. In her 7/23 message, writing for Martha Dixon, Alice Dixon writes: "2
& 3 & 4) Re: his date of death/execturors: She references a November
10, 1801 notice in the Augusta Chronicle which specifies George and Patsy
as the administrators of the estate."

If any of you happen to have the CONTENT of this newspaper notice and
could share a transcription of same to our list, it would be most
appreciated. Or, if it's already on the website, just "slap and point"
me in the right direction.

B. Also in her 7/23 message, Alice Dixon writes: "5) Re: Thos sons
being Lewis, Thos Jr, et al : She notes that this information is
found in the will of George Poythress filed in Florida."

I have checked the transcript of this will on the website and do not find
the referenced relationships, only the sibling relationship of George and
Lewis. Am I missing something? Is there more to this estate
documentation, not showing on the website? If there is ANY SOURCE
ANYWERE that explicitly or indirectly reveals the parentage of Lewis or
George Poythress, I would be much obliged for any of you to cite it for
me.

For your convenience, the text of the George Poythress will as
transcribed on the website follows:

"In the name of God Amen. I George Poythress of the Territory and County
aforesaid calling to mind that all men must die and wishing to dispose of
my worldly Estate do make and ordain this as my last will and Testament
in Manner and form following to wit Item 1st I give and bequeath unto my
Son John Carter Poythress my tract of Land lying and being in the County
of Burk in the State of Georgia Known as the Rocky Creek Plantation to
him and his heirs and assigns forever Item 2nd I give and bequeath unto
John C. Poythress of Burk County in the state of Georgia and my friend
James W. Exum of Jackson County West Florida whom I hereby nominate
create and appoint Executors of this my last Will and Testament in trust
as such executors all the remaining part of my Estate real & Personal
both in Law and Equity with all monies and evidences of Debts due me to
them & their heirs Executors and Administrators, But upon this special
trust and confidence and for the purposes hereinafter mentioned, That is
to say to suffer and permit my daughter Mary Elizabeth Mandell receive
and use to her sole and separate use free from the controle or contracts
of her husband or husbands the income and profits of my saidEstate for
and during her natural life. And I do hereby declare that my said
daughter's separate receipt notwithstanding her said coverture shall be a
sufficient & legal discharge to the said Trustees for the Income of said
property so paid over to her from time to time. And it is further my will
and desire that should my said daughter have a child or children living
at her death then & in that case I give and bequeath said Estate Real &
Personal herein conveyed to said Child or children and to them their
heirs and assigns forever - But if my said daughter depart this life
without having a child or children living at her death then and in that
case it is my will and desire that my said Estate real and personal after
my daughter's death without children living go to and I do bequeath the
same to such children of my Brother Lewis of the State of Virginia as may
be living at the death of my Daughter.

I do hereby nominate and appoint my Son John Carter Poythress and my
friend James W. Exum my Executors to carry this my last will into effect
hereby revoking all former wills made by me - In witness whereof I have
hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal this Sixth day of April In the
year of our Lord 1829 -- Geo Poythress"

Any help on these questions will be appreciated.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		07/25/1997 2:47:03
William Short Will 1756Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'm looking for the will of William Short (dated 21 Dec. 1756). If any of
you have it in hand, I'd love to see it. Why? Well, I have a little scrap
of information for the Virginia Historical Magazine (Vol. 23, 1914-15, p.
208) that says the following:

"Will of William Short, dated dec. 21, 1756, legacies to son-in-law Joshua
Poythress, and to daughter Mary Poythress's children Joshua, William and
Elizabeth Poythress."

Thanks,
Al Tims		07/25/1997 3:38:43
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #63Al,

My computer gave me a warning not to download this edition. Then, when I
tried to, anyway, it said there was an error due to a download within a
download or something like that. What's up?

Caroline

07/25/1997 6:01:39
Lyn- Thomas QuestionsIt bounced the first time so here it is again:

Message-ID: <970725194423_-1240647569@emout01.mail.aol.com>
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.coms
Subject: Sources for Claims-Thomas

1) Birthdate of Thomas....if anyone said a specific birthdate I think he or
she may have been focussed on something else and used that casually.
Actually, it has always been "ca" something. Al and I had him ca 1735
primarily based on him having a son who married in 1781 but the ca 1735
"backs up" neatly (although admittedly on probabilities) from every other
document we have on Thomas and that is getting to be a considerable number.

Along came Martha with ca 1740 and since neither Al nor I had any problem
with that we just adopted ca 1740. The birthdate for Meredith of ca 1760
also fits this scenario. We know both son and father were there at about
that time because we have documents out the wazoo....the dates were picked
"ca" because we had to have some kind of reference sequence to work with.
Whether its ca 1735 or ca 1740 didn't appear to make much difference for
"working" purposes.

2) Message of July 15 Martha states "wasn't the Sheriff, Thomas II, dead by
1795?"

Well, actually, Martha was at the beach poking her toes up at the sunshine
without a care to her name but in this instance, more importantly, without a
record to her name and she was asking, not stating. Martha asked a pertinent
question because at the time we had under consideration the Thomas P./Hicks
deed in 1797. Implicit in all of this is trying to come to grips with the
"two Thomases" or "three Thomases" question. If Sheriff Thomas (with a son
Thomas, Jr. for the 3rd Thomas) had died in 1795 he would not have been able
to be a participant in a deed deal of 1797, thereby adding evidence to the
3-Thomas option....which is apparently is the option everybody likes but me.

I not only pointed out that it would have been possible for Sheriff Thomas to
be in on that deed deal (since he didn't die until 1800) but indeed probable.
I speculated that
Thomas came to Brunswick, did the deed without spouse Martha's permission so
the Brunswick Court sent Thomas back home to officials of Burke county
(Washington and Fletcher) to secure Martha's approval. Al shot this one down
by pointing out Washington's presence at another Brunswick deal and BPN added
fuel by pointing out that the time intervals in the Poythress/Hicks deed
(plus it's trailing paperwork) were not really abnormal enough to make a fuss
over (I'm still not 100% convinced that it was a "routine" transaction...how
often does a court get snookered with a deficient title, finds out a year
later and has to "fix" it?)

I concede those two points but will STILL maintain that it was indeed
possible (whether probable or not) for Sheriff Thomas to have been the one in
that 1797 deed simply because he did not die in 1795, he died in 1800, and
that was the basis for the original question.

Its beginning to look to me like both of these points have a sizable
improbability to cope with. The 3-Thomas folks have got to prove three
Thomases and two Marthas all crammed into a 60 year time frame. The 2-Thomas
folks (well, actually, just me) have got to rationalize two Thomases
scurrying back and forth from Burke to Brunswick often enough to look like
they were catching commuter flights.

3) Burke County history records him as sheriff October 21, 1799 - 1800 died.
>From Official Records of Burke County, Ga.:

Sheriffs
James Lewis Dec. 3, 1795 - Nov. 17, 1797
Geo. Poythress Nov. 17, 1797- Oct. 21, 1799
Thos.Poythress Oct. 21, 1799- 1800 died
John Broome Dec. 8, 1800- Oct 22, 1801

I just took the plug out of the middle. There are 8 or 10 individuals each
preceding and suceeding these sheriffs. Note that contrary to the way it
gets stuck in most memories, father suceeded son in the job, not the other
way around.

4) Estate of: Poythress, Thomas
Administrator(s): Geo. Poythress
Patsy Poythress
Date of administration: 10, Nov. 1801
Source: Columbia Museum & Savannah Advocate (Newspaper)
I'm fairly sure its also in the Augusta Chronicle (see
below)

Also, this administration grant is shown in a couple of other places and
I'll pick
them up when I do a Thomas time-line. Also, I'll pick up date of
Application for
Administration which I recall as Oct. 21, 1800 but I don't have it at my
fingertips
right now.

5) Lyn, I'm going nuts with this one....I saw the thing just the other day.
I guess when I get a look-up on a guy with one foot in Va. and the other in
Ga. (or, I guess more specifically in this case, Fla.) its a long hike
through about 35 or so binders. So I can get this on out to you let me keep
this one on the burner. In part, it will also be an acknowledged
"non-answer" to today's question about Martha's statement.

What she saw, and I'm almost positive I saw (and didn't realize it was a big
deal at the time) was a document/transaction "trailing" George's Florida will
in which he (or whomever wrote the document for him) mentioned not only
brother Lewis (again and no surprise) but also referred to "our father"
Thomas or maybe it was "their father Thomas". I now see this one is a
stunner.

Of your five questions, it didn't take a Rhodes scholar to figure out which
was the most important to you so I have had answers to 1 thru 4 sitting in my
e-mail for two days while I looked for that document. I'm going ahead and
shooting this to you acknowledging that # 5 is unanswered and I am likely to
find it when I start (tomorrow I promise) building a time line for Thomas.

And for gosh sakes, if anybody else on the wire has it please speak up.....I
would hate to think its buried in my hard drive instead of a 3-ring binder.

6) There was no #6 in your first questions but since original # 5 and
today's B) are the identical questions I'll make this one the answer to
today's A). I have that reference in at least several "compendium" type
publications. Do I have the actual text or photocopy of the newspaper
article. No. But I expect to have it on 8/18 when I will be at the Augusta,
Ga./Richmond County Public Library with copies of the P. pages in their all
name index for the Augusta Chronicle. I tried to do this one via mail and
letter with them but nothing doing. Apparently, show up in person and
they'll give you the store, try to do anything on the phone or mail and they
duck you.

I'll be at the P. Screven County family reunion on the preceding Sunday and
will stay over in Augusta (only about 40 or so miles north) and go to the
library Monday A. M.

Sorry to drag you out on this one but I figured # 5 was the el supremo one
for you. I'll acknowledge that one "open" and get 1 thru 4 to you now.

Best,

Maynard		07/25/1997 6:36:18
Two Further Requests re: Thomas PoythressCharles NealLyn,

Re (b) in your posting: "I have checked the transcript of this will on the
website and do not find the referenced relationships, only the sibling
relationship of George and Lewis. Am I missing something? Is there more
to this estate
documentation, not showing on the website? If there is ANY SOURCE
ANYWERE that explicitly or indirectly reveals the parentage of Lewis or
George Poythress, I would be much obliged for any of you to cite it for
me."

George's will & the follow-up entries were what I spent a good bit of time
on, in the court house in Jackson Co, FL, in May of this year. I posted
the entire will and I looked at lots of follow-up entries (mainly receipts
acknowledged by his daughter Mary for proceeds from crops sent by John
Carter Poythress, George's son). I found nothing about any others than
Lewis.

If there is a specific citation in the records that anyone is aware of,
that goes into other Poythress folks, I too would very much appreciate
learning of it. I now know a fellow there in the county who would be
willing to get me a copy of any other specific citation like that.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

07/25/1997 7:46:55
Re: Where is the connection" Crowder - CleatonCharles NealAl,

Yes the juxtaposition of Crowder, Cleaton, and even Stanley names are
certainly interesting, though the will is probably more recent than
Elizabeth's parent could have been alive, even if he lived a long time.

And re:
>will for Sterling Crowder on her Brunswick page. Connection?<

I doubt it, unless he might have been a cousin or brother of Elizabeth,
since it sounds like his kids were all much younger, of the same generation
that Elizabeth's children would have been had she had more children instead
of dying as a young mother.

Basically, by reading my excerpt from family records you now know
EVERYTHING that I know about Elizabeth 😉

BPN

BPN

07/25/1997 7:46:58
MethodismHey, Lyn, nice hit! I always wondered (but not enough to research) why my
folks were always Methodists....and Burke and Screven, GA (who had a big draw
for those folks in Va.) are wall to wall with Methodist Churches. Most other
places in the state the Baptists are predominant.

I had always been jokingly told in my early teens that Methodists were
Baptists who had learned to read and write....although I'm reasonably sure
the Baptists were telling their children the reverse.

The reason I would speculate with some level of confidence that the influence
was early on is the number of Methodist churches where I have folks buried:
Wesleyanna
Meth. Ch., McBride Meth, etc. etc. and the burial dates go easily back into
mid
1800's so it's no recent phenomenon.

And Al, just think....ol' batchelor Francis hisself just may have had a lot
to do with that. I think I'll ask Tara Peniston (by copy of this) if she has
a concentration of Methodist above what the usual demographics would
suggest....although I have no idea what the majic number would be.

Maynard		07/25/1997 9:14:08
Scottish NamingMarion & Helene PockrusThe following from the third quarter of THE GENIE:
Thought this was of interest & thought I would share it!
Helene Pockrus

In naming their children the following is interesting and helpful to know.
The first son is named after his father's father, his middle name after his
father's mother's maiden name.
The eldest daughter is named for her mother's mother. Middle name from
mother's maiden name.
The second son is named for his mother's father.
The second daughter is named for father's mother.
The third son is named for his father.
The third daughter is named for her mother.

07/25/1997 10:22:10
Re: MethodismAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Linda Starr wrote:

> I feel the need to chime in with this Methodism discussion. ALL the
> STARRs who appear in Wilkes Co. GA as early as 1785 were Methodists --
have
> several ministers including allied lines in the family down to the
current
> genreation. To hear my father-in-law talk, they were Methodists BEFORE
John
> Wesley.

I so enjoy Linda's observations and her wonderful sense of humor. Linda's
father-in-law may be half-right about Methodism and Georgia. We may not
get too far with this line, although the premise that Francis Poythress was
a pioneer missionary holds considerable interest. I may elaborate on this
in a subsequent message, but for now I thought I would share the following
account of John Wesley's first visit to America and the origin of
Methodism. There is no genealogical information in the following passage
-- just a small passage on John Wesley and his early missionary work in
Georgia during the 1730s.

Best,
Al Tims

The Rev. John Wesley was the second son of Samuel and Susanna Wesley, and
was born at
Epworth, in Lincolnshire, June 17th, 1703, O. S. He received his first
lessons of instruction from his
mother, a woman admirably qualified for the right education and training of
her children. His father
was a learned and pious minister of the establishment, and his mother was
not less strenuously
attached than he to the doctrines, usages, and formularies of that church.

At the age of sixteen he entered college at Oxford, and soon gave evidence,
by his progress in his
studies, of that acuteness of intellect, and sternness of virtue, by which
he was afterward so
eminently distinguished. When about twenty years of age he began to think
seriously of entering into
holy orders; and accordingly, after consulting his father and mother,
turned his attention to those
books and studies which were best adapted to give him the needful
information.

In September, 1725, he was ordained a deacon, and the following year
elected fellow of Lincoln
College. He took his degree in February, 1727, and in 1728 was ordained a
priest or presbyter in
the Church of England. In 1729 he attended the meetings of a small society
which had been formed
at Oxford, in which were included his brother Charles and Mr. Morgan, for
the purpose of assisting
each other in their studies, and of consulting how they might employ their
time to the best advantage.
The same year he became a tutor in the college, received pupils, and
presided as moderator in the
disputations six times a week.

It was about this time, the society above named having attracted some
attention from the regularity
of their lives, and their efforts to do good to others, that some of the
wits at Oxford applied to the
members the name of Methodists, a name by which John Wesley and his
followers have ever since
been distinguished. Whatever might have suggested this name to those who
first used it in this
application, whether in reference to an ancient sect of physicians, or to
some Christians so called in
the early days of the Reformation, it is no small recommendation of those
who were thus designated
at this time, that it was applied to them as descriptive of the rigidness
with which they adhered to
method in their studies, the regularity of their deportment, and their
diligence in visiting the sick and
the poor, with a view to relieve their wants, and impart to them religious
instruction.

Passing over the events of his life which occurred during the remainder of
the days he spent at
Oxford, in which he continued to be characterized by his wisdom in counsel,
his attachment to the
Church, and his charity to the poor and the ignorant, I come to notice his
missionary voyage to
America. In the latter part of the year 1735; through the solicitation of
General Oglethorpe, and the
trustees for the new colony of Georgia, he consented to deny himself of the
many advantages he
enjoyed in the seclusion of Oxford, and to embark, in company with his
brother Charles, on a
missionary enterprise for that colony. Here they landed on the 6th of
February, 1736. Of his fidelity
in the cause of his Master here, the privations he suffered, and the good
he was instrumental in
doing, I need not speak in this sketch, as a full detail of them may be
seen in his biography, by Mr.
Moore and others. After remaining about one year and a half, baffled in his
pious design of
preaching the gospel to the heathen, misrepresented and persecuted by those
who ought to have
been his friends and defenders, and seeing no prospect of succeeding in his
main design, which was
to convert the Indians, he took leave of the Georgians, and arrived in
London February 3, 1738.		07/25/1997 10:23:02
Re: Where is the connection?Albert R. TimsBarbara,

Carol Morrison has the following will for Sterling Crowder on her Brunswick
page. Connection?

Best,
Al Tims

Last Will and Testament
of
Sterling Crowder

I, Sterling Crowder of the County of Brunswick and State of Virginia, being
of sound and disposing mind, do make this my last will and Testament,
revoking all others hither to made by me, As soon after mydecease as my
Executor, herein after to be named, shall deem advisable, I wish all my
perishable property to be sold at public auction, the proceeds of net sale
to be applied to the payment of my past debts. The balance of my estate I
wish to be kept together for the maintenance and education of my children,
till my youngest child attains the age of twenty-one years, at which time,
I desire that my estate both real and personal should be divided equally-
My wife taking her thirds during life, or a childs part in fee simple. I
wish my Executor to furnish my boys, as they arrive at the age of
twenty-one years, with a good horse, saddle, and bridle. Also to pay my
daughters when they marry, the sum of fifty dollars.

It is my wish that my sons and daughters, when they reach the age of twenty
one years or marry, shall make to Baxter Lambert a relinquishment of their
right to the land (107 acres) which I sold him and which belonged to my
first wife. Should either of my sons or daughters refuse to make this
relinquishment, then I revoke the specific bequest to him or her that
refused-

I would prefer that my Executor should employ one of my sons, either Julius
or Wiley, to manage my plantation affairs.

Lastly, I constitute and appoint John S. Harris Executor to this my last
will and Testament. Witness my hand and seal this the 27th April 1848.

                                                                   Sterling
Crowder (Seal)
Witness
James E. Crichton
William Nash
Wyatt Adams
John Stanley
Edmund B. Webb

Brunswick County Court November term 1848

This last will and testament of Sterling Crowder was proved by the Oaths of
James E. Crichton and John Stanley witnesses therto and ordered to be
recorded. And on the motion of John S. Harris the executor therein named
who made oath thereto according to Law, and together with R.H.H. Wallton
and Thomas I. Hicks his securities, entered into and acknowledged a bond in
the penalty of $15000. Conditioned as the Law directs, certificate is
granted him, for obtaining a probate--of said will in due form.
                                                                         
Ex'd. E.R.Turnbull, Clk.
Will Book 15, page 201, Brunswick County, Virginia
Contributed on February 24, 1997 by S. Lepow		07/25/1997 12:51:10
Re: Where is the connection" Crowder - CleatonAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: BPN's Crowder query

Barbara, the following Crowder will is particularly interesting because of
the the Cleaton mentions. Once again, Carol Morrison's Brunswick page is
the source :-).

Best,
Al Tims
------------------------
Will of Wiley H. Crowder

April 21st 1890 In the name of Almighty God I W.H.Crowder doe make this my
will. I loan to my wife Sarah V. all of my real estate and personal
property after my just debts are paid so long as she is my widowe then all
my land to my three boys to stirling the land from the old gap as we went
to B. Cleaton's now marked by a rock strait to a rock on west side of Joe
gap to J.C. Crowder all the land on the west from the corner between me and
C.L. Cleaton and myself to rock inside the fresh land to the corner next
Charles Evanses to John L. Crowder the remainder of my land. My girls the
sengle ones to have a home at my old homested during life or so long as
they remain single. Stirling to pay ten dollars to each girl or the lawful
ones James C. to pay each fifteen dollars and JL to pay $25.00 twenty five
to each one and all my property to be divided among my girls or their
lawful heirs those refusing to accept this wil is not to be benefited by it
at all.

                                                          Wiley H. Crowder

J.C. Crowder, witness
Jno. L. Crowder, witness

Brunswick County Court April term 1894 A writing purporting the last will
and testament of Wiley H. Crowder, dec. was produced in Court, and said
Wiley H. Crowder dec., his handwriting was proved according to law by Chas.
L. Cleaton and by M. Stanley and the said writing is ordered to be recorded
as the last will and testament of Wiley H. Crowder, dec. Teste: G.R.
Mallory, clerk Examined April 30, 1894

Will Book 22, page 656, Brunswick County, Virginia
Contributed by Linda Lewis Lepow		07/25/1997 12:56:34
Lyn...Lewis Y. and Thomas M.Lyn....in going through my entire files building a Thomas time line I'm
finding stuff I never even knew I had. At one time I sent for the Natl.
Archives cards for all CSA
vets named Poythress. Or...at least I think it was Natl. Archives, Craig is
the expert on this area, I might have gotten them from those folks in
Hillsboro, TX.

Anyway, I have a xerox page with two name cards on same page:

1) Poythress, L. Y., Private, Capt. Scott's Company, Local Virginia Defense,
Co. A,
Greenville County Home Guard

2) Poythress, Thomas M. Private, Co. D, 2nd Virginia Artillery.

I don't see how these two fellows can miss being the Lewis Y. and Thomas M.
of the deed I posted the other day, whereby Lewis Poythress, Junior was
giving them land for a nominal value. Since I have noticed (as I did not the
first time) that the party A of the deed was Lewis "Junior" in the text of
the deed, I guess I missed my speculation by a generation when I said I
thought he was George's brother. Can you clear that one up?

And I'm mailing you the page today.

Best,

Maynard		07/26/1997 4:30:34
Re: Where is the connection?Lea L. DowdThe Crowder family also came on down to Baldwin Co., GA and married into
the BASS and GREEN family as well. There is a "Diary that has been
published with some of this family "The Journal of a Milledgeville Girl" by
Bonner. Maybe this will have a clue.

Lea

1. Thomas1 Crowder was born 1774, and died 1830. He married Elizabeth
Hawkins, daughter of Col. John Hawkins.

Children of Thomas Crowder and Elizabeth Hawkins are:
+ 2 i. Adeline Eliza Anne2 Crowder, born ca 1807; died 24 May 1860.
3 ii. Martha Hawkins Crowder, born 1812; died 1884. She married Thomas
Fitzgerald Green , Dr. Jan 1862.

More About Thomas Fitzgerald Green , Dr.:
: Doctor

Generation No. 2

2. Adeline Eliza Anne2 Crowder (Thomas1) was born ca 1807, and died 24
May 1860. She married Thomas Fitzgerald Green , Dr., son of William Green
and Anne Wilkes.

More About Thomas Fitzgerald Green , Dr.:
: Doctor

Children of Adeline Crowder and Thomas Green are:
4 i. Thomas3 Green, died in infancy.
5 ii. William Green, died in infancy.
6 iii. Adeline Eliza Green, died Mar 1861. She married James Augustus
Hall.

More About Adeline Eliza Green:
: No children

7 iv. Mary Hawkins Green, born 09 Aug 1833; died 1860. She married Adlai
Osborn Houston Nov 1851.
+ 8 v. Martha Crowder Green, born 20 Nov 1836; died 1925 in Baldwin Co.,
GA.
9 vi. Thomas Fitzgerald Green II, born 03 Mar 1843; died Jul 1874. He
married Ella Bibb Lipscomb 18 Sep 1868 in GA.
10 vii. Anna Maria Green, born 26 Sep 1844; died 09 Feb 1936. She married
Samuel Austin Cook 08 Apr 1869 in Milledgeville, GA.

More About Anna Maria Green:
: Her journal became The Journal of a Milledgeville Girl 1861-1867; Bonner

11 viii. Frances Joseph Green, born 05 Oct 1848; died 1911 in Clarksville,
GA. She married James Patton Phillips 02 Nov 1871.

More About James Patton Phillips:
: Doctor

Generation No. 3

8. Martha Crowder3 Green (Adeline Eliza Anne2 Crowder, Thomas1) was born
20 Nov 1836, and died 1925 in Baldwin Co., GA. She married Charles Henry
Bass Jul 1858, son of Larkin Bass and Mary Rabun.

More About Charles Henry Bass:
: Doctor; Asst. Phys. at Millidgeville

Children of Martha Green and Charles Bass are:
12 i. Thomas Green4 Bass, born 15 Aug 1859; died 03 Jul 1860.
13 ii. Adeline Green Bass, born 23 Aug 1861.
14 iii. Mary Raburn Bass, born 26 Mar 1863. She married Hal Lawson , Col.
30 Dec 1902.
15 iv. Martha Crowder Bass, born 21 Jun 1864.
16 v. Henry Fawcett Bass, born 23 Apr 1867; died 25 Apr 1867.

More About Henry Fawcett Bass:
: Twin of William

17 vi. William Raburn Bass, born 23 Apr 1867; died 23 Apr 1867.

More About William Raburn Bass:
: Twin of Henry; died in infancy

18 vii. Charles Larkin Bass, born 30 Apr 1869 in Midway, Hancock Co., GA.

More About Charles Larkin Bass:
: Lawyer; Chieftian of Freemasons; Minister
: Succesful lawyer & member of legislature.

19 viii. Julia Louise Bass, born 11 Aug 1869; died in in infancy.
20 ix. Adeline Houston Bass, born 31 Dec 1871; died 23 Jul 1872.

More About Adeline Houston Bass:
: died in infancy		07/26/1997 5:49:07
Mecklenburg LDS ResourcesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The resource materials held by the LDS (available through your local FHC)
related to Mecklenburg County, Virginia are now listed in a text file on
the Poythress web pages.
You'll find the link on the Resources pages. The information is in plain
text format for each downloading to any system.

The direct link to the file is:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/mecklen.txt

I'll be adding additional resources like this in the next day or so.

Best,
Al Tims		07/26/1997 12:58:23
AOL ProblemsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following message to the rootsweb listowners is consistent with notes
I've been getting from several of you on AOL. If you are on AOL and are
having problems with messages arriving as attachments please let me know
and I'll try to help. I suspect this is a temporary glitch -- at least I
hope so.

Best,
Al TIms
---------------------
To: RootsWeb ListOwners

AOL is having big time mail problems. Random messages are being received
as
attachments, some that can be read and some that can't. It doesn't have a
lot to do with the size of the message either, but some come without an
extension and then can't be interpreted.

07/27/1997 1:01:55
Re: AOL ProblemsYep, can't get attachments.

MP

07/27/1997 1:29:56
William Poythress, Mary Poythress & Bothwell siteAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following record is of interest, since it isn't clear to me that we've
answered the questions raised below. Moreover, it points to the existence
of a grave site near Butterwood (see map on our web page) as late as 1935.
Finally, the location and dates fit very nicely with our current studies of
Thomas Poythress and Francis Poythress (Methodist preacher).

I'd love to know if any of you have visited "Bothwell". I'd also put out a
general request that anyone close enough to make a day trip consider trying
to locate this site and attempt to gain access to the grave site. A
photograph would be wonderful!

Best,
Al Tims
-----------------------
William and Mary Quarterly, Vol. 15, 1935, p. 312.

Poythress and Eppes.-The following is an excerpt from a letter of
Mr. Richard D. Gilliam of Petersburg:

"I visited last week 'Bothwell' Dinwiddie Co. the former home of Dr. John
Cabaniss, and in the grave yard there was shown the tombstone of 'Mary
Poythress, daughter of Capt. William Eppes, and wife to William Poythress,
Jr., who died on the 4th. day of October 1750, aged 19 years.' 'Bothwell'
was prior to 1752 in the County of Prince George and Butterwood Creek or
Swamp is one of its boundaries. I have no doubt that the Land grant to
William Poythress included Bothwell (some 1200 acres now) or were adjoining
the place. This William Jr. was probably the son of Maj. Wm. & Sarah
Poythress & born Mch 14 1733."

On page 65 of the January number of the Quarterly under our study of the
Poythress family, this William Poythress, son of William Poythress and
Sarah Eppes, was born March 14, 1729 (Mr. Gilliam gives 1733) and died
October 15, 1794. We did not have knowledge of this marriage but he had
one son the third William in line, and there must have been other children
as this third William made tax returns on the Estate of William Poythress
for personal property from 1795-1801 and real property from 1797-1811. We
will appreciate any information given in connection with the family of
William second, and third. Identify accurately Capt. William Eppes and his
relationship to Sarah Eppes the wife of the first William Poythress, and
also the exact date of birth of Mary Eppes. Did William (2) Poythress have
any other children than William (3), and did he marry a second time? We
rather infer that he did marry again and had minor children at his death in
1794, otherwise why should William (3) make tax returns between the years
1795-1811.

William B. Hall, M.D., Selma, Alabama		07/27/1997 1:59:27
Time Line Thomas P.Below is a "time-line" for Thomas P. citing all references that I have. This
is a working model and I would fully expect additions and perhaps even some
deletions.

I have quoted the source in each instance, without regard to whether I
considered the source to be reliable or not. In general, however, one should
not have a lot of trouble assigning relative value to the sources.

I thought I would share this with the group before trying to do any analysis.
The only observation I would make at this time is that effective analysis is
likely going to require more "life events" (marriages, wills, etc.) than we
presently have. Deed books are great but they don't "trace" much other than
the single individual involved...
or, at least it appears that way to me.

(in case AOL automatically makes an attachment out of this thing becauses its

40M bytes, I'll send it to Al to get it to list some other way.....in fact,
Al, I'll also send to you in MS Word format in case we want a copy that
doesn't parse funky.

Maynard

1 May 1773 Thomas Poythress �of Martin�s Brandon Parish� in Prince George
County
sells to William Rives 274 acres for 150L current money. DB 13, pg. 1,
Bruns. Co. (Note: this land should be in present Greenville County).

6 Jul 1773 Thomas Poythress �of Prince George County, Va.� sells to John
Dawson
of Brunswick County , for 400L, �two certain tracts, containing by
estimation 525 acres. From private report to Bud Poythress by Mr. L.
Holman.

22 Jan 1781 Indenture for Mason & Gilliam to Spencer land transfer in
Brunswick, witnessed by...Thomas Poythress... Bruns. Deed BK 14,
page 68.

14 Jul 1781 Thomas Poythress� son Meredith is married to Edith Cleaton,
source:
Mecklenburg County Marriages, Vogt & Kethley, Iberian Publishing
Co., Athens, Ga.

22 Aug 1782 John Morris & Elizabeth Edwards, dau. Thomas Edwards, deceased.
Surety Meredith P. makes affidavit that Elizabeth Edwards lives at the
home of his father Thomas Poythress and is 23 years of age. Knorr�s
Brunswick Marr. pp 66.

1782 Personal property list of Bruns. Co. lists Thomas Poythress and
Meredith
Poythress and 6 slaves- also 6 horses & 18 cattle. (Bud Poythress� notes
2 Dec 1991).

1782 The 1782 land tax record of Brunswick Co., Va. showed that
Thomas
Poythress, Sr. paid tax on 584 acres in that county. This land was
apparently not all acquired by deed or will. However, the sources
have not been located at this time. The Virginia Land Office does not
show that a Thomas Poythress acquired any land by patent.

The Brunswick Co., Va. tax record alterations show that 50 acres of this
land was transferred to a James Phipps and 484 acres transferred to a
William Warrick. These deeds have not been located as of now. However,
in 1787 the land tax of Brunswick shows that these persons now owned the
land. Thomas Poythress is no longer listed as owning any land in
Brunswick County. (Report of Anne Taylor Brown to Bud Poythress
7 Dec 1991).

6 Nov 1787 Indenture between Isham Randle and Edward Drumgold (both of
Brunswick) for sale of land. Bruns. DB 14, pp 350. (TP a witness).

28 Jan 1788 Randle/Drumgold transaction above additionally proved by oath of
Thomas Poytrass, Bruns. DB 14, pp 350.

22 Apr 1788 Thomas Poythress and George Walton, witnesses to above
transaction
Bruns. DB 14, pp 350.

26 Jul 1788 ...Thomas Poythress...�List of Defaulters in Cap. Wynn�s Dist.,
Burke
County� from Georgia State Gazette/Independent Register published in
Augusta, Georgia, issue of 26 July, 1788, pg 3, col. 2.

1 Nov 1788 Thomas Poythress.....Ibid. issue of 1 Nov 1788, page 2, col.
3...From list
of presentments of the Grand Jury of the Present Term: �In the Superior
Court it is ordered that the presentments of the grand jury of the present
term be published in the State Gazette.....(grievance #7)...We present
Joshua Inman....Thomas Poythress, as gamblers; therefore a nuisance to
this county. Source of two entries above: microfilm of Ga. Gazette for
issues cited above, Georgia Dept. of Archives & History.

1788 Brunswick County personal property tax records show Thomas
Poythress
listed for 1788....1 tithe. (Report of A. T. Brown to Bud Poythress7 Dec
1991)

30 Mar 1789 �Thomas Poythress for removing Henry Woodward�...meeting of the
Overseers of the Poor at the Court House...from St. Andrews Parish
Vestry Book 1732-1797 of Bruns. Co., Va. By Wm. Lindsay Hopkins
(abstracted from photocopies in Va. State. Library).

1789 Poythes, Th. On Green County, Ga. Taxpayers List, From The
Reconstructed 1790 Census of Ga. by DeLamar & Rothstei, Baltimore
Gene. Press, 1985. (questionable entry?)

1789-1795 Brunswick Personal property tax shows Thomas Poythress listed:
one tithe. (Report of A. T. Brown to Bud Poythress 7 Dec 1991)

Aug 12, 1791 Thomas Clary sells to Thomas Poythress (both of Brunswick) 85
acres
for 37 Lbs. Deed Bk. 15, pg. 135, Bruns. County. (Comment by A. T.
Brown in report to Bud Poythress 7 Dec 1991: �The 1791 land tax shows
that a Thomas Poythress acquires 85 acres in Brunswick. That deed was
located and cited earlier. This Thomas as shown had a wife named Martha.
It is not known whether the Thomas Sr. who owned 534 acres in 1782 in
Brunswick is the same Thomas who owned 85 acres in that county in 1791.
However, it seems that the Thomas who had a wife named Martha may be
the Thomas who went to Georgia�).

14 Dec 1793 Screven County created, taking lower part of Burke, including
holdings of
Meredith Poythress, Thomas� son and William Poythress (also a son?)

20 Aug 1795 Thomas Poythress to George Hicks land in Brunswick County, 85
acres
for 50 Lbs. Bruns. DB 16, pp 165-6.

28 Aug 1795 Order prepared Washington and Fletcher ordered to secure relief
of dower
indenture on above propery from spouse Martha Poythress.

28 Sept 1795 Above transaction ordered recorded Bruns DB 16, pp 165-6.

14 Dec 1796 Order given to Washington and Fletcher to go to Martha Poythress
and
secure relief of down indenture on the 85 acres.

1796 Brunswick County personal property tax records show Thomas Poythress
No tithe listed, 2 slaves over 16, 2 horses. (Report of A. T. Brown to
Bud Poythress 7 Dec 1991)

17 Jan 1797 Washington & Fletcher submit to court relief of dower indenture.
Same
as DB 16 above.

23 Jan 1797 Execution of relief of dower indenture ordered to be recorded,
Bruns.
DB 16, pp 396-7.

17 Nov 1797 Thomas�s son (?) George becomes Sheriff of Burke. Serves until
21 Oct 1799 when replaced by his father (?) Thomas (who serves until
his death in late 1800).

1798 ff. No entries for Thomas Poythress on Brunswick County personal
property
tax records. �It seems that Thomas Poythress must have left Brunswick
County mid-1797 at the latest to early 1798�. (Report of A. H. Brown to
Bud Poythress 7 Dec 1991).

1 Oct 1798 Poythress, Thomas, Burke County tax records, book 4, year 1798,
From
An Index to Ga. Tax Records, 1789 Forward...4th Dist. Tax
Digest....Southeast Regional Archives, East Point, Ga.

21 Oct 1799 Thomas Poythress elected Sheriff of Burke Counnty, Georgia.
History of
Burke County, Ga.

28 Oct 1799 Poythress, Thomas (along with Tho. Poythress, Jr., Geo.
Poythress,
and Edward) Signed Petition behalf of Leonard Nobles asking Ga. Gov.
James Jackson to pardon death sentence.

29 Apr 1800 Thomas Poythress, S. B. C. (Sheriff Burke County) testifies at
court of
inquiry into the conduct of Major William Wynne, charged with not
keeping a guard over the jail in Waynesborough allowing escape of one
Anthony Disto �confined for murder�. (WPA Project # 5993, Ga.
Military Affairs, original in GDAH)

6 May 1800 Thomas Poythress, Sheriff of Burke County to Barbara Vince,
widow,
(highest bidder $ 300) by suite of James Henderson vs. estate of Jacob
Griner. Witnesses: George Poythress, Jno. Mobley. (Screven County,
Deeds & Meetings, Vol. A, 1794-1810, pg.260.

10 Nov 1800 Poythress, Thomas....administrators: Geo. Poythress, Patsy
Poythress,
Columbia Museum & Augusta Chronicle, Notices of Administrations.*

10 Nov 1800 Poythress, Thomas, ditto above, �Jefferson-Burke County, Ga.
Early
Records, Published by Alden & Associates, Albany, Reviewed by
Wm. H. Dumont, NGS Quarterly, 1966.*

*[note: entries for administration of estate show variously as 1800 and 1801.
I will check this on visit to Augusta library 8/18/97. I speculate that
1800 is going to be the correct date for administration of estate]

7 Mch 1801 Augusta Chronicle, issue of this date, pg. 2, col. 3: �Will be
sold at public
auction 15 April next, Waynesborough, 2 horses belonging to the estate
of Thomas Poythress, deceased, etc. By Geo. Poythress, Adm�r.

1 May 1801 Thos. Poythress, decd. taxes in default 1 May 1801. Augusta
Chronicle
notices of sales of property by Burke County sheriff.

10 Nov 1801 Administration, from �Nuggets & Other Findings in Burke County,
Ga.
Hillhouse, A. M.*

10 Nov 1801 Ditto above �Burke County Residents (1764-1832)� Abstracted from
Savannah and Augusta newspapers (source not mentioned) by Herring,
Dorothy Holland.*

1803 Martha, George & Edward Poythress (widow and sons of
Thomas?)
register for 1805 (1st) Georgia land lottery.

1807 Poythress, Thomas (orphans of) Registered and won in Georgia
1807 (2nd) land lottery. County: Burke, Militia District: Sharpe�s, Lot #
44, District # 22, Land won in: Washington County.		07/27/1997 2:24:09
Thomas Time LineBud Poythress......

Bud, I was somewhat surprised to find out just how much of this came from
Kathy Best back in her reports to you in '91-'92. I guess I get more respect
for her work every time I go through it.

A few observations:

1) she grows to be fairly sure of herself with the assertion from
circumstantial evidence that Thomas is father and Meredith and George and
Thomas, Jr. are the sons. This does not imply that she doesn't accept
Edward, I just think she wasn't looking for him. And Lewis (understandably
since she was only looking in Ga.) plus
Martha Elizabeth Amanda go right by her too.

2) you can forget about that "Hetty" buried down in Savannah being confused
with Hester Mock (whom Kathy assumes to be Meredith, Jr.'s first wife).
Hetty was the wife of George and they were the parents of John C. They had
gone to Savannah for a holiday wedding of son John C. when his mother
contracted typhus (I believe). Since the health regulations of the day
quarantined typhus victims dead or alive, Hetty was buried in Savannah. I
got the story originally from Martha Dixon. As I checked facts it turned out
that Martha had nailed this one right on the money.

3) I'm still not totally clear (although I put it in my Thomas trial
chart....I guess we ought to stop calling him "of Dinwiddie") how Kathy Best
finally came down on the matter of wives for Meredith, and Meredith, Jr.

At one point she has Meredith, Sr. wife of Edith Cleaton (only) and Meredith,
Jr. m.
1. Hester Mock and 2. Susan R. Maner. Then in another place she makes Susan
Maner clearly the mother of Meredith, Jr. (and by implication the wife of
Meredith, Sr.)

Contrast the above with Martha's take which is to make Meredith Sr. m. 1.
Edith Cleaton and 2. Susan R. Maner.....then I don't know who marries
Meredith, Jr.

Have you done any more thinking on this one, Bud? How about you, Martha?

Maynard		07/27/1997 2:24:26
Re: Thomas Time LineAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Thanks to Maynard for pulling together the Thomas Poythress records. I
have put his time line up on our web site and will following shortly with
the full text of the deeds Carol Morrison provided.

The direct link to the Thomas Poythress Time Line is
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/TPLine.html

I just noticed that it needs a little more format cleaning, but the text is
fine. I'll likely have the problem fixed by the time you read this.

You'll find it under the Studies and Charts button on the web page
http://www1/minn.net/~atims/

Best,
Al Tims		07/27/1997 4:19:37
Bothwell Followup & PG RecordsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Just added the Prince George County Records bibliography for the LDS
holdings to our reference source page. Helene Pockrus was kind enough to
pull these together for us. I just noticed that I may have additional
items for the Mecklenburg bibliography. Both of these are wonderful
resources for us since most everything listed can be loaned to your local
FHC library.

I'm not sure if it is the same cemetery or not, but I note on the very
first PG County entry a mention of the Bothwell cemetery (see earlier post
today re Bothwell). Would be interested to know if anyone has examined the
microfilm described below.

Best,
Al Tims

---------
CALL NUMBER
US/CAN
FILM AREA
0849499
item 6
AUTHOR
Daughters of the American Revolution. Frances Bland Randolph Chapter
(Petersburg, Virginia).
TITLE
Bibles of Dinwiddie County, Va. / Frances Bland Randolph Chapter, DAR.
PUBLICATION INFORMATION
Salt Lake City : Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1970.
FORMAT
on 1 microfilm reel ; 35 mm.
NOTES
Microreproduction of original typescript (34 leaves) written in 1948.
Title and author handwritten at top of p. 1.
Print is sometimes faded.
CONTENTS
Includes index.
Contains Bible records for William Cole Powell family, Rose Family,
B.T. Scott Family, Thomas E. Clarke Family, Pegram-Hargrave,
John Francis family, Smith-Love, Temple Family (Prince George
County), Fayette Dandridge Clarke family, John Field M.D. family,
John Smith Thomas family, Rives family, George D. Baskerville
family, John Y. Bristow family, Rose family, John A. Meade family,
and John B. Chambers family. Contains tombstone inscription from
Neiland Graveyard, Thomas C. Chappell Graveyard, Bothwell Cemetery,
Paschal Heartwell Graveyard, Groveland Graveyard, Gibbs Graveyard,
William Dabney Family Graveyard, White Oak Grove Graveyard,
THIS RECORD FOUND UNDER
1. Virginia, Dinwiddie - Bible records
2. Virginia, Dinwiddie - Cemeteries
3. Virginia, Prince George - Bible records		07/27/1997 6:11:06
Poythress in the Northern Neck of VA?Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'm going to point out an obscure stone for us to turn here :-). But, why
not?

We have:

"On December 8, 1656, Sir Henry Chicheley patented a 2,200 acre tract of
land lying on the north side of the Rappahannock River between Jet and
Chingoteque creeks and overlooking the broad expanseof Nanzatico Bay."
Note: This area was first explored by Captain John Smith in 1608.

Nanzatico, King George County, Virginia, by George Green Shackelford, The
Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol. 73, No. 4, October, 1965.

In a footnote accompanying this passage we have the following:

"Virginia Land Office Records, old vol. V. p. 43. Jett Creek was named
POYTHRESSES Creek and at various times was called Peetris, Pestris, and
Murdock Creek."

WHEN was it called Poythresses Creek? Prior to 1656? If so, WHY? Yes, we
know that Francis Poythress was out and about, but did he own land this far
north? Unless I'm mistaken, the first reference we have for Francis is
the one I cite below. I will add that I have still yet to determine the
who and why for this reference either. But it does "suggest" to me that
Francis didn't just jump off the boat in 1633. Basically, I'm suggesting
that we might want to rethink the conventional wisdom of Francis Poythress
being tied to the 1633 date we have in all the old articles. Just a
thought.
----------
Minutes of the Council and General Court at James Citty, 9th Feb 1632
Virginia Historical Magazine, Vol. 31, 1923, p. 295
Present: Sir John Harvey Knt Governor &c Capt ffrauncis West, Capt Samuell
Mathewe, Capt Wm Clayborne, Mr. Henry ffinch, Capt John Uty, Capt Richard
Stephens, Capt Hugh Bullocke, Capt Wm Peirce.
"Uppon ffrauncis Poythres his peti'con there is graunted unto him a l're of
Administra'con uppon the estates of Thomas Hall & Robert Kidd deceased."
----------------

Best,
Al Tims		07/27/1997 7:59:05
Littleberry H. PoythressHelene,
The only info I have on Littleberry Poythress are two land records that were
recorded in Tallahatchie, Mississippi. One is for 39 and 23/100 acres dated
Oct. 22, 1836 and the other for 235 and 42/100 acres on March 4, 1836.

Can give you more detail on the land from these records if you would like.

AY!
Barbara (BPW)		07/27/1997 10:11:03
Bolling/Bowling/Hancock/Poythress/RolfeKen PooleI am researching the families in the subject line, and can use any
information about any of these surnames, that I can find.

The Bolling connections are a real mess, and I have already found several
people who disagree with the published genealogies. Any and all
information will be a great help. Ken Poole

07/28/1997 4:57:37
Jack POYTHRESS Will - 1818, Mecklenburg Co., VAAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Maynard Poythress just sent me a photocopy of this will. I have enlarged
the tiny type as much as reasonable and put it up on the web for
inspection. I haven't connected it to the main Poythress web page yet --
since you may find my "enlargement" a bit much. Then again, it does make
text much easier to read. Notes: You'll see a large left margin. I'll
eventually clip this out. You'll need to use your scroll bar to read
across the page.

Let me know if it helps. I'll create a smaller version for the main web
pages.

Very interesting will for those of us working on the Mecklenburg Poythress
families.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/jackpoyt.html

Best,
Al Tims		07/28/1997 6:39:11
Bothwell FoundAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Linda Starr forwarded my Bothwell query based on Dr. William B. Hall's
query from the 1930s to the Worsham list. A kind person on that list took
up the challenge and FOUND Bothwell for us. It is RIGHT were I thought it
would be based on the Bolling surveys I put up on the web page. I'll do a
more detailed version and post it to the web.

Below are the directions to Bothwell.

Best,
Al Tims

I found what I think is the place referred to in your query.

In the OFFICIAL ATLAS OF THE CIVIL WAR, plate #93, (middle of left page)
the
home of a family named Cabiness is identified just south of Butterwood
creek
in Dinwiddie County.

In my DeLorme atlas of Virginia, (p. 47, lower right corner) it looks like
this is the way to get there:
from highway 460 in Dinwiddie county, go south on state road 622 to its
intersection with state road 613, Turn east (left) to the next
intersection
(about 1/4 mile) then turn south on road 610. (In 1864 this was called
White
Oak Road and may still be). Cross over Butterwood Creek. Go another 1 1/2
miles and the place is on the west side of the road. If you get to road
645,
you went about 1/4 mile too far.

If traveling on I-85, then get off on state highway 40 north. Go about 5
miles to road 610 and turn north. go about 10 miles, just past road 645.
Place on west side about 1/4 mile north of road 645.

Hope this helps.

Janelle Swearingen		07/28/1997 8:39:46
THOMAS POYTHRESS & JOHN POYTHRESSAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

This might be a historic note for all of us Thomas Poythress chasers :-).
Below is a post from Carol Morrison (aka Sherlock Holmes) that will likely
cause considerable excitement. A word of caution -- this isn't a guarantee
of parentage :-). I will add full transcriptions for these documents to
the Poythress Web immediately.

Enjoy,
Al Tims
-----------------------------
Carol Wrote:

Maynard's Time line shows a Thomas Poythress conveying 525 acres to John
Dawson in 1773. This Deed is recorded in Deed Book 11, at page 239-241
and includes two tracts of land; i.e., one tract for 200 acres and
another tract for 325 acres, located on the South side of Meherrin River
and on the East side of Cane Branch. There is no privy examination of a
wife at the time of recording, and have I not found a subsequent privy
examination or release of dower for this conveyance -- as of yet.

But I thought you all might be interested in *possibly* where Thomas
Poythress got these two tracts of land, particularly since both tracts
were owned previously by another Poythress.

John POYTHRES of Price George County, for 20 Shillings, was granted 200
acres of New land, in Isle of Wight County, located on the S. side of
Maherin River and on East side of the Cane Branch, on 5 Sept.
1723, Patent Book 11, page 258-259. Note: Cavaliers & Pioneers shows
this as being on Cave Branch, but I've looked at the Patent and this
appears to me to be 200 acres of the 525 acres which Thomas Poythress
conveyed to John Dawson. I'll probably be able to work up a
transcription of this particular patent sometime tomorrow.

The 325 acres (balance of the 525 acres) was granted to John Poythress,
Gentl., by Letters Patent, for consideration of 35 Shillings, on 17
March 1735/36. Virginia Patent Book 17, page 293-294.

Furthermore, the Brunswick County records show an "Inventory &c" for a
John Potess recorded in the year 1760. This is how its spelled in the
Index. This Inventory (of which I haven't seen) is recorded in Will
Book 3, beginning at page 341.		07/28/1997 10:23:08
Re: Bolling/Bowling/Hancock/Poythress/RolfeAlbert R. TimsKen,

Welcome to the Poythress list. Actually, we're more than the Poythress
list since we're actively encouraging allied family researchers and are
every bit as interested in these families and the social and political
contexts of their lives. We're blessed with participation by a fantastic
group of experienced and enthusiastic researchers.

Perhaps you''ll be able to help us untangle the
Bland-Blair-Bolling-Poythress relationships.

Some of what we know is posted on our research web pages. This site is
designed to be a research tool that will enable us to share primary
research resources with everyone on the list. However, we have a long way
to go before it even begins to represent more than a community file drawer.
I would recommend Lou Poole's chapters on the allied family pages as an
excellent starting point.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

The Rolfe-Poythress-Bolling relationship remains unclear. I'm sure you've
seen all the GEDCOM's out there giving birthdates and birthplaces for Jane
Poythress. Some even give birthdates and birthplaces for Francis
Poythress. Well, all of this is a mystery. Can't seem to find anyone who
can produce any authority for any of it.

We also have some evidence to suggest that our original Poythress immigrant
(Francis Poythress) was married to Mary Sloman. Was Mary (Sloman)
Poythress the mother of Jane Poythress? Mary (Sloman?) Poythress did
marry Robert Wynne (circa 1652) after the death of Francis Poythress
(before 1652). This fact seems to be established in Robert Wynne's will
(see allied family page at our web site). However, just this past week I
received a note from someone suggesting that Francis Poythress was married
to a Boothe.

So, we can easily identify with your frustration with the state of the
Bolling family history.
Toss out a query and we'll go to work :-).

Best,

Al Tims		07/28/1997 11:53:47
PG to Brunswick LinkAl.....I think this new information from Carol Morrison (where DO you get
this stuff, Carol, may we borrow that magic potion for a day or so) with
respect to Thomas Poythress perhaps having gotten those two chunks of land on
a "nominal" transaction from John Poytres is MOST significant.

Actually, while I had no doubt that those first two deed transactions in the
Thomas time line were legit.....my concern was that those first two are the
first time we had seen a "Prince George" Thomas connected to ANY of those
other "non-PG" counties. My concern here was not that we had the wrong land,
but that we might have the wrong Thomas.

My suggestion is that the link from the PG guys to any one else out of PG is
so important in our entire endeavor that we should subject that link to tough
scrutiny.

Granted if we still accept "our" Sheriff-to-be Thomas' birth date as ca
1735-40, he is old enough to be trading land in 1773 (33 to 38) but not by
much.

Back to the observations when I first put up the Thomas time line.....I think
we need to be getting into those will books and court orders and marriage
bans.....deeds alone or even predominantly...are tough to use for links.

You folks with those gazzatters are something else.....I barely know the way
to Virginia.

Nice going!

Maynard		07/29/1997 2:00:46
Poythress, and related lineagesKen PooleI am researching all connected lineages to Poythress. Is there a linked
genealogy available, such as GED COMs?

I realize this is a loaded question, as there is often a question of being
correct for a given link. However I need a starting point, and if anyone
can steer me in the right direction, it would help a lot. Ken

07/29/1997 2:37:09
Re: Poythress, and related lineagesKen PooleI suspect you are mostly correct. My efforts have been to find all those
relations which someone has "on paper, or GED COM", (of interest to our
goals).

I must point out that at some point we have to rely on others, or each of
us would have to begin with ourselves, and work backwards, one courthouse
at a time. No one person could do that, and get very far.

I agree that one who trusts, blindly, is in for a rought ride on the Net.
However, the same goes for any thing in your local library. The one idea
which has some merit is to employ a method of "Collecting It All". If there
is contradictory information out there, you ought to find it, and use it to
help you find the facts. For example a child linked to two different
parents will jump out at you. Big Clue! The more confused the better,
because we can be sure that a contradictory link is a good place to
investigate.

The book, "Pocahontas' Descendants", gives a genealogy, which is a good
example. The "book", lists some children but not all who claim to belong
to that family. Once all those "unclaimed" children, are traced, we are
finding that they were not made up people. They were Bollings from the same
VA areas (Henrico, Albermarle, Chesterfield, Goochland, ect...).

They married , had children, named them,(often those Indian names), and
lived their lives without being aware they did not exist. Yet, I'm given
the same song and dance about junk GED COMs. Genes are real, everyone has a
set.

I suspect you have a better database, given your experience, and years of
research. I also hoped you would have shared it, as I did offer to share
what I have. I still hope to find information which someone will share with
me. It saves time typing, if nothing else, and frees us to help "you"
search for "our" lineages.

Besides, GED COMs do have places for notes, sources, ect. Besides, I had no
idea some of you descended from Christ. Besides his name was Jessie.

Best,
Ken Poole

At 09:04 PM 7/29/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Ken.....I will answer your question in full anticipation that someone on the
>"listserve" with more technical savvy than I will give you a technically
>correct answer. At which point you should take their word, not mine.
>
>However, for several years now I have been actively searching the
>'net....largely in that GED-something ( I don't think GEDCOM) format which
>provides for all sorts of folks to just write down name, rank and serial
>number and thereby with a few minimal details imply decendancy from Charles
>Martel or Jesus Christ or whomever. There may indeed be some of it that is
>dead on the money.....but 99% of what I have seen is without question junk of
>varying degrees; with no malice aforethought but junk all the same.
>
>For example, the father of "the immigrant" Francis Poythress is cited almost
>everywhere as "Joshua, b. 1588" with a wife named "_____Peachey". We have
>been unsuccessful in locating "Joshua" (incidentally the name of one of
>Francis' sons thus suggesting a source for confusion) and the name Peachy
>does not show in the family until late 18th, early 19th century.
>
>Our original suspicion was (and is) that all of these people simply copied
>each other; and, albeit all in good faith, in error nonetheless. There is
>also room for suspicion that many people simply submitted fantasy information
>to LDS who are all too trusting in these matters. We have located Francis
>baptised Newent, Gloustershire 1509 and while we may not be in love with that
>one, it at least has some factual basis.
>
>I apologize for "answering in the negative", but that is my "take". If one
>just must have an absolute, right now answer....the only one I can give is
>"come back in about 5 years". That is based on the progress we are now
>making on the page and listserver now in operation and it assumes continued
>evangelical fervor as demonstrated currently. Under Al Tims' guidance the
>quest has become a knuckles down, no b. s. sort of thing. I am confident
>that we will ultimately unravel more than has been done in the past 200
>years.....not that we are that great, just that we are working that hard at
>it and; in a practical sense, the ONLY ones working at it. Please feel free
>to e-mail me if you think I can help.
>
>Best,
>
>Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)
>
>		07/29/1997 6:10:40
Re: Poythress, and related lineagesMarion & Helene PockrusNow that is a loaded question Ken. I'd like to see that list on the
Poythress board.Do you just want Poyhthress or all the variable spellings?
Ok Al & Maynard-out of the woodwork!
HelenePockrus

----------
> From: Ken Poole
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Poythress, and related lineages
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 2:37 AM
>
> I am researching all connected lineages to Poythress. Is there a linked
> genealogy available, such as GED COMs?
>
> I realize this is a loaded question, as there is often a question of
being
> correct for a given link. However I need a starting point, and if anyone
> can steer me in the right direction, it would help a lot. Ken		07/29/1997 8:02:21
Re: Poythress, and related lineagesHey folks, I'm out of business on that subject......everytime I "ruled out" a
variant somebody nailed me being dead wrong by coming up with some guy named
pxy#&@! who was Francis' older brother. B'rer Rabbit he has had enuff of
that tar baby.....far as I'm concerned anything starts with a "P" is okay by
me to be a variant.

Okay, Al, you got the ball, show 'em your stuff!

Maynard

07/29/1997 8:30:45
Deed Transcriptions -- Thomas and John PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Have added a link on the Thomas Poythress time line for the deed/patent
transcriptions from Carol Morrison. I've also added the two transcriptions
to the deeds page.

http://www1.minn.net./~atims/TPLine.html

Best,
Al Tims		07/29/1997 12:03:54
Just joinedThanks for the quick response when I joined yesterday. It looks like a good
group and lots of activity. Have already been impressed with the Poythress
information and now hope to get some coming in on the other branches...My
main interest right now lies in Mary Bland b.1770 m. THomas Osborne Randolph
b. 1765. I have a line running through the Randolphs on back to the 1600's
and it vers off and becomes a descendent of Pocahantas along the way. But I
also believe that the Bland and the Cross families also are descendents but
haven't connected that up yet. There seem to be many connections of Blands
and Randolphs in the Poythress family, so feels Mary fits in there someplace.
I find other Marys, but not married to THomas. Mary's daughter by the way was
Prudence, m. William Cross. So I'll follow the information and continue to
fill out the twiggs, and thank you all. Marian onefergy@aol.com		07/29/1997 12:08:55
Martha Dixon's ScribeBelow is transcript of a 6-pager received from Martha today. I have offered
Alice the deal that if she will print what she thinks Martha is interested in
I'll transcribe her letters to me to the group. Alice hasn't taken the deal
yet but I'll transcribe the first one anyway. I will quote directly omitting
only those Dixon mentions that don't pertain to the train of thought. And if
I comment I'll do so in square parentheses.

Charlotte,
July 25, 1997

To: JMP
Re: yours of 12 July, 1997

I never had any definite thoughts about Peter Poythess except that he and his
brother Cleaton were born 1781/1787 and that he sold his Mecklenburg, Va.
property in 1811 while living in Screven County. I had no idea where he had
gone and often thought: I'll just bet someone is really looking for him.
But, that Screven deed is what sent me back to Mecklenburg Co. where I found
his family.

I do [did?] not understand the Ga. Soc. of Col. Dames' 1924 book "Some early
Epitaphs in Georgia for Savannah". When I saw the small gray headstone,
about 2' wide by 2 /2' high and 6 inches thick, it was overgrown with fungus
making it gray. All the headstones in that section were exactly like it, and
a man told me it was in the typus section. There was no approbrium atttached
to these deaths. It was a classless, ageless, wealth-regardless equal
killer......

[Martha goes on to point out that she saw a headstone and the Ga. Col. Dames
said it was a "plaque"....no matter, the copy is the same as quoted by
each...and it is for absolutly, positively, sure that this woman was the wife
of George Poythress and the mother of John C. Poythress who had gone from
Burke Co. to Savannah for a holiday (death date 12/24) marriage of her son.
Bud, this should get completely off the table any confusion between THIS
Hetty and the Hetty Wilder Mock Poythress whom we presume to be Meredith's
first wife....Martha probably doesn't even have an opinion on Hetty Wilder
Mock Poythress but its certain she would agree the two ladies are not the
same person].

"Since returning to my records, I see that Peter and Cleaton Poythress were
more of an age with my MEA than with Lewis, George, Edward, and Thomas Jr.
Therefore,
Meredith is a cohort of Lewis, George, Edward, and Thomas Jr. UNCLE !!!
[Martha essentially agrees with most of us who have been saying that MEA was
simply too young to have been a daughter of Thomas (Sheriff) and is likely
the niece of Meredith and the daughter of one of the others although we don't
know which yet.]

[ I am going to start on a Meredith time line in the next day or two and I
think I'll just wrap Junior and Senior together....first because I don't know
how to two-column the thing which rationalizes a reason to combine them.
Second, there is some question whether or not there were two Merediths and I
think a time line will put that one to rest for good by saying there were
indeed a Jr. and a Sr. I think what is going to get REALLY interesting is
that we are now up to the point where some of these folks are going to start
showing up in the 1820 census....and, as sloppy as the 1820 gets in some
places, it still has the potential to do good things for us]

Martha: However, I believe the Thomas P. who made the 1795/96 sale to Hicks
and who removed the Woodward name from the Parish records was NOT the
sheriff. I am not a lawyer, but, have read enough of these legal papers to
feel that there is something innately illegal about the scheme you have
hypothesized. Of course, in those rough pioneer days many things were not
handled according to Hoyle. So, could be. [ I surrender on the scenario
I hypothesized, I don't give up that the seller was likely Thomas the
sheriff....but you all have rocked me enough to get me shaky].

All able bodied men in Georgia were in the State Militia after the Revolution
- subject to call at a moment's notice. "Some Georgia County Records", Vol.
4, by Rev. Silas Lucas [I knew him. He is dead now but a highly credible
source] :
Pg. 2 Burke Tax Defaulters 1793 Thomas Poythress [I think we have this
one]
Pg. 7 Dist 5 Militia Feb 25, 1819 , 8th Reg. Edward Poythress
Pg. 8 7th Reg. William Poythress
Pg. 9 8th Reg. George Poythress (1st
Co.)
Pg. 9 8th Reg. Laban Odum
Pg. 10 8th Reg. John Dixon

[Odum and Dixon first and second husbands for MEA]

"Georgia Citizens and Soldiers of the American Revolution" Robert Scott
Davis, Jr.
[also a credible although not primary source].
pg. `131.....Robert Poythress. He was recruited in Virginia and served in
3rd Ga.
Cont. Regt. under Col. James Screven.
[Since he was Continental Line and not militia could this have been same the
guy we have illegally recruiting..in Va. Gazette: "Prince George, Nov. 23,
1776. Contrary to my desire, and express order, my servant man James Bullock
enlisted with mr. Robert Poythress, an officer, he says, under Captain Scott
of the Georgia Service; upon which I demanded my servant of the said
Poythress, without effect. This is therefore to request Mr. Scott to have my
said servant returned to me without delay
or further expense, or I shall certainly prosecute him according to Law.
signed: James Anderson"......interesting....hey, Craig, you got both a
Robert Poythress AND a Captain Scott in 3rd Ga. Cont. Line? Shoot, maybe he
was even one of YOUR boys.]

"The Families of Burke County, Ga. 1755-1855" by Robert Scott, Jr. [I think
she means Robert Scott Davis, Jr.]. This book suffered because the person
Bob got to index it did a poor job.
pg. 207 Land Grants to Meredith Poythress in Screven in 1806, 1811.
[does this imply grants in return for Rev. War service?].

In order to pay for the War of 1812, taxes were levied on commodities and
property in 1790. Ibid, p. 233.
Pg. 236 Houses Alexander Carter $ 1200 [future father-in-law of Geo. P. I
presume]
Pg. 239 George Poythress $ 1500.

Martha: (her comments I think, not quotation from book) Most people lived in
simple houses: Isaac Perry, Town Commissioner, Architect, and Surveyor lived
in a house near Waynesboro valued at $ 120. So, you can imagine the splendor
of the Carter and Poythress homes.
Pg. 240 Thomas Poythress resided in a house owned by Margaret Jones and
Henry Jones Jr. valued at $ 412.
So, we see that the sheriff was residing with his wife [Hetty Carter] and
family: Ned,
Elizabeth Martha in an eminately respectable dwelling house....I gather from
this that the sheriff had staked George [his son] worthy of lovely
Hetty......and Patsey must have agreed to this.

It is the time frame here that puzzles me. The P. family was in Burke by
1787. Yet, in 3 yrs. Geo. is domeciled in a mansion.

"Grave Markers in Burke County, Georgia" by Powell Odum & Hillhouse.
Pg. 242 John Carter Poythress Sept 14, 1796-Sept. 12, 1862.
Pg. 231 Alexander Carter, Esq., age 70 years June 24, 1841.
Young John Carter P. was born six years after Geo. was in posssession of the
mansion. This elegant house may have been confiscated from a Tory after the
war. Do not believe the Mjr. had it built. But whence the money?

Pg. 25 Elizabeth Odum [MEAP] Jan. 26, 1788-Oct. 5, 1861
(in 1950, "Elizabeth M. Odum" was visible and a rubbing revealed the birth
year as
1788. When they did the book the inscriptions were hardly decipherable. The
1850 census for 68th GMD [Ga. Mil. Dist.?] Burke Co., Ga. states she was born
in Va.

Thomas P., Sheriff died 1801 [all the books say death 1801, administration
shows as both 1800 and 1801, I'll check this] Geo. and Patsey P. took Letters
of Administration.

In 1804, MEAP m. John Dixon [husband # 1] reputed to be her piano teacher.
Her mother "Patsey" may have remarried. We do not read of Patsey again. In
18 Apr 1812 Augusta Chronicle Elizabeth Dixon Letters of Administration
Estate of John Dixon.

Last Thursday, Alice read me a complete message from (didn't get the name)
who found in the papers of Va.: "Georgia, Richmond Cty. Robert Dixon, Geo.
Poythress and Wm. Nicholson testified under oath that a certain Benjamin
Woodward, then in the common jail of the county of Richmond, Ga. is the
identical person formerly a resident of Dinwiddie County in the State of Va.,
long noted for his villany for counterfieting the public papers of that state
and for whose arrest and delivery to the proper authorities a large ($400)
reward was offered by the Gov. of Va."
Major Longstreet delivered the prisoner to Va.

About a year later, 30 Mch 1789, Thos. Poythress removed the name of Henry
Woodward from the St. Andrews vestry book. [you also picked this link up,
Al, you think it says anything with respect to "which" Thomas?]

You had asked me to jot down the foregoing facts with the sources. Hope they
help.
I think we need to pursue Elizabeth Edwards residing in the home of Thomas
Poythress. Also, the 1807 Land Lottery was state wide and the names of the
orphans of Thomas Poythress are listed in Wilkinson County and should include
your Meredith in with George, Edward, and Martha (using her first name on a
government paper). If Meredith isn't an orphan of Thomas the sheriff,
believe he was a younger brother.

Fondly, Martha

(Please remember me to my new friends on the monster).		07/30/1997 4:24:20
Re: Poythress, and related lineageAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: Ken Poole's GEDCOM query

Sorry for the delay in responding, but my inbox overfloweth due to the
telephone outage, etc. I understand Ken's frustrations and desire to get
all clues (good and bad) into some sort of unit for careful analysis. We
have discussed the need for a database of known information and are moving
in that direction. At this point we're collecting as many primary source
materials as we can and trying to use our web page as a tool for sharing
what we find. The web page doesn't show the published studies by Boddie,
Hall, Stanard and a few others. Lou Poole's chapters on the allied family
page are excellent jumping off points. The policy on the web page is that
we (1) will not violate the intellectual property rights of others, (2)
will always favor original documents over abstracts or compilations when
possible, (3) will site all sources accurately, (4) will clearly label
speculation/queries as such, (5) will credit the work of others fully.
Otherwise, we're open to posting anything folks find helpful.

If I had a GEDCOM I'd share it with one and all. I have my Family Tree
Maker 4.0 sitting here with little in it. I suspect some of us have
"parts" of the tree in a GEDCOM. Maynard's group sheet on the Georgia
Poythress is a good example. We have most all of that up (except the most
recent generations) on the web. Barbara Wolfe has given us all she has on
David and Lewis Poythress. Barbara Poythress Neal has quite a bit on the
Alabama and Mississippi folks -- but no one is really clamoring for that
information right now. We're pretty much focused on Virginia Poythress and
the early migrations into the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida. There is so
much we don't really understand. Several of us are quite excited about the
new insights we're gaining through study of the Hicks, Wall, Hall, Bass,
Cleaton, Barner and the other families that first settled southside
Virginia and North Carolina. With you bringing your study of the Bolling
family, we've added another piece to the puzzle.

I'm more than willing to create pages for posting Bolling information
and/or links to other sources. You'll find that Lea Dowd, Carol Morrision,
Jean Spille, Lou Poole, Paul Murauskas and others are simply fantastic
researchers and have a wealth of information to share and are quick to make
connections we would have easily missed.

I have a Bolling GEDCOM someone sent me for John Bolling. As with all
GEDCOMs, I don't know how much is fact and how much is fiction. I'll be
happy to send it to you as an attachment file. More importantly, I'd love
for you to post what you have on the Bolling family in North Carolina. We
have Poythress in North Carolina that the census clearly shows to be 'other
free persons' . Jean Spille has compiled an impressive amount of
information in a relatively short period of time on these families. We
don't know how they connect -- yet. My guess is that the answers will come
with continued study of our southside families and more careful study of
the North Carolina records.

Our list started in early March of this year. We migrated from the Maiser
lists and have steadily grown to nearly 45 subscribers. Our web page is
only a couple of months old (still a baby). All things considered, I
believe we are making major headway. I wish I had more answers and more
concrete information.

If you haven't done so already, I would urge you to visit:

1. Carol Morrison's outstanding web pages:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/
2. Lea Dowd's amazing Southern Bass page: http://www.gnat.net/~lea/

We'll get there -- with a little help from our friends :-).

Best,

Al Tims		07/30/1997 5:15:38
Poythress Drug Store - Richmond, VAAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

We've just added a small artifact to the Poythress web page at
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/bottle.html

Actually, we have a bit more information on the business of William
Poythress of Richmond. I do not know if any of us have his genealogy
established. Perhaps in time :-).

One of the things that makes this item so interesting is that it was found
(cap on) in the sand on a river bank in Florida in the 1990s by a
POYTHRESS! Fun stuff!

Best,
Al Tims		07/30/1997 7:46:20
Re: Lyn...Lewis Y. and Thomas M.Maynard, thanks so much for this information.

a) Regarding the service record of Thomas M. POYTHRESS, yes, this is my
second-great-grandfather. I have independing confirmation of his
enlistment in this military organization. I understand he enlisted at
Lombardy Grove, Mecklenburg Co., Va. on January 20, 1862.

b) Regarding the service record of L.Y., I have no doubt this was Lewis
Y. POYTHRESS, brother of Thomas M. POYTHRESS and son of Lewis POYTHRESS.
I am sure of this because i) he is in Greenville Co., where the 1850
census record from BPN places him and ii) I just do not believe there
were more than one Poythress in one county with the first initial L. and
the unusual middle initial Y.

c) Regarding your reference to Lewis, Junior, I have rechecked my
transcription of the 1845 deed from Lewis POYTHRESS to Lewis Y. and
Thomas M. and do not see the work "Junior" anywhere in the text. I do,
however, see "Sr.". The grantor is "LEWIS POYTHESS, SR." Considering
all the evidence, I am continuing to treat this man the grantor as the
brother of George POYTHRESS of Florida. If you disagree, please
elaborate.

Thanks ever so much for your kindness in mailing me the copies. I look
forward to receiving them. --LPB

On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:30:34 -0400 (EDT) VKRatliff@aol.com writes:
>Lyn....in going through my entire files building a Thomas time line
>I'm
>finding stuff I never even knew I had. At one time I sent for the
>Natl.
>Archives cards for all CSA
>vets named Poythress. Or...at least I think it was Natl. Archives,
>Craig is
>the expert on this area, I might have gotten them from those folks in
>Hillsboro, TX.
>
>Anyway, I have a xerox page with two name cards on same page:
>
>1) Poythress, L. Y., Private, Capt. Scott's Company, Local Virginia
>Defense,
> Co. A,
> Greenville County Home Guard
>
>2) Poythress, Thomas M. Private, Co. D, 2nd Virginia Artillery.
>
>I don't see how these two fellows can miss being the Lewis Y. and
>Thomas M.
>of the deed I posted the other day, whereby Lewis Poythress, Junior
>was
>giving them land for a nominal value. Since I have noticed (as I did
>not the
>first time) that the party A of the deed was Lewis "Junior" in the
>text of
>the deed, I guess I missed my speculation by a generation when I said
>I
>thought he was George's brother. Can you clear that one up?
>
>And I'm mailing you the page today.
>
>Best,
>
>Maynard
>
>		07/30/1997 8:09:48
Middle Initial "Y"Poythress List

I have a technical question for you. This arises from the exchange with
Maynard regarding Lewis Y. POYTHRESS. Do middle letters ever represent
something other than the initial of a middle name? I ask because as a
think about southside Virginia I can think of no surnames or Christian
names that begin with the letter Y. Also I ask because I am familiar
with the usage of middle letters "NM" to indicate no middle name. So we
have here at least one such case of middle letters that are a code rather
than the initial of a name. Also, I also know that in some cases folks
had middle letters but no middle name, just middle letters. Could "Y"
mean "younger" and serve the same function as "Jr."?

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

07/30/1997 8:18:09
Re: Middle Initial "Y"Lyn....very interesting question. If "y" stands for younger I have never
seen it or read about it doing so. If I just had to guess I'd say it was
somewhere around the "beginning" of middle names in the first place.

My question, and I intend to post it on several genealogy boards, is when did
Sr. & Jr. stop meaning just the older and the younger and start meaning
father and son in the context in which we use it today. I realize there is
going to be no magic date on the calendar but there is likely to at least be
a period of transistion. And even if the "period" is 30 or 40 years it will
mean something to us.

If somebody on the board already knows the answer let us know would you?

Thanks.

Maynard		07/30/1997 8:50:33
Re: Thank you!To: Al Tims

I spoke to my mother last night, and she had finally received the hard copy
of the information about Robt Dixon, Goe Poyt, and Wm Nicholson identifying
Benj Woodward, that showed it as being from you.

She asked that I write you and let you know how much she appreciated that
information! She now believes that the Robert Dixon mentioned is someone who
she has been looking for since 1950! And it took only two weeks on your
discussion page!

She didn't ask me to do this, But I believe that she might like to thank you
herself....Could you either send me your address, or, if you wish, you could
write her directly at: Mrs. B.W. Dixon, 4114 F Providence Rd.; Charlotte, NC
28211-4494...

Thank you!
Alice Dixon		07/30/1997 10:38:24
Familiar Face?Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Since we're pretty sure that the Poythress surname means "Red Head with
Penchant for Gambling" it might be worth taking a look at the following mug
shot for family similarities.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/poytboy.html

This appeared in the Minneapolis Star Tribune July 30, 1997		07/30/1997 10:55:28
Re: PG to Brunswick LinkAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Maynard -- re: your note stating:
"with respect to Thomas Poythress perhaps having gotten those two chunks of
land on
a "nominal" transaction from John Poytres is MOST significant."

I don't see a nominal transaction between Thomas and John Poythress. I
believe what we have is a patent to John Poythress in 1736. We then have
Thomas selling the same parcel of land in 1773. I've connected these two
land transactions to the time line you developed for Thomas Poythress on
the web page. My take is that we have the possibility of Thomas (of
Brunswick) having acquired this land through inheritance. This isn't the
only possibility, but certainly one we should explore. I hope the record
for the other parcel of land will shed further light on this all important
issue. Furthermore, if this is the proper read, then the age of Thomas in
1773 is essentially moot (so long as he was 21 by 1773).

Folks, please do correct me if I'm reading this the wrong way.

Carol Morrison has established a critically important connection for us.
Recall that after years of study, Bud Poythress reached the conclusion that
Thomas Poythress of Brunswick Co. didn't have parents :-).

p.s. -- My phone lines have been down for the past 24 hours -- so I'll need
a little time to get caught-up.

Best,
Al Tims		07/30/1997 10:55:34
John Poythress 1723 Patent - Sold by Thomas PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison has provided us with an original patent to John Poythress in
1723 that seems to correspond to the "other" parcel of land sold by Thomas
Poythress to John Dawson in 1773.

This means that both of the parcels of land sold by Thomas Poythress were
originally patented by John Poythress, Gentl. I've added Carol's
transcription to our deeds page and have added a direct link to the Thomas
Poythress time line pulled together by Maynard Poythress. You'll be able
to link to the Poythress-Dawson transcription and both of the John
Poythress patents.

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/TPLine.html

Again, let me emphasize that we should not jump to the conclusion that
these deeds establish that John Poythress was the father of Thomas. It is
a possibility, but there are lots of other ways Thomas could have come to
own the two properties.

STILL, this discovery is the first hard evidence we have establishing a
connection between Thomas Poythress of Brunswick with the earlier Poythress
generations.

I'm thrilled to be able to communicate this news!

Best,

Al Tims		07/30/1997 11:38:17
Re: Lewis, Sr. and Jr.BPW, good to hear from you. As I see it, at least two possibilities are
indicated:

1) Neither father nor son has a middle name. The "Y" in the name of the
son has some other cultural meaning of which I am unaware. Here the Sr.
is used casually and pragmatically to avoid confusion in the shared first
name of father and son.

2) Lewis the father shares a middle name (or the middle letter "Y"
without an associated name) with the son, but does not use it, neither
here nor in any other notice yet discovered.

The GOOD thing in this notice is that the relationships of father and
sons are explicitly stated, unlike (as you well know) the case of MOST
DEEDS and, sadly, unlike all our known references to the Sr. and Jr.
Thomas Poythresses. -lpb

On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Beetle72@aol.com writes:
>Lyn,
>You wrote: Regarding your reference to Lewis, Junior, I have rechecked
>my
>transcription of the 1845 deed from Lewis POYTHRESS to Lewis Y. and
>Thomas M. and do not see the work "Junior" anywhere in the text. I
>do,
>however, see "Sr.".
>
>Many thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've rechecked this
>document
>too and evidently I jumped to the conclusion (and jotted it in my
>notes) that
>Lewis Sr. automatically made Lewis Y. a Jr.
>
>The first signature at the bottom is Lewis, then Lewis Y. and then
>Thomas M.
>So in this instance the Sr. just means the older. Would you agree?
>
>Can't find a reference at this moment, but in questioning the Y
>initial, it
>seems I have seen a Yates surname.
>
>AY! Barbara (BPW)
>		07/31/1997 1:53:02
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______________________________		07/31/1997 4:21:52
Ken Pools's Hix/Hicks, Epes, et al. queryAlbert R. TimsPoythress List:

Ken,

Our interest in the Hicks/Hix surname derives from Capt. Robert Hicks and
his likely association with Peter and Robert Poythress (both early Indiana
traders). We don't have any of this nailed down in any formal sense, but
it is clear that all were associated with Ft. Christanna and were holders
of early land patents near the Fort. Carol Morrison's Hicks/Hixs page is a
great source for documents. Carol includes links to other Hicks pages. We
also are just starting to surface evidence of Dortch and Cleaton
connections with the Hicks surname. We have known Poythress connections
with Dortch and Cleaton families (see Poythress web info on David and Lewis
and Thomas Poythress). In addition, the Hicks and Bass connections are
very interesting to us. Lea Dowd has compiled far more on her Bass surname
than we have on the Poythress.

None of these genealogies are written. Most of the real work lies ahead
and isn't likely to evolve in a linear fashion. As you can probably tell
from recent days, we are actively working on Thomas Poythress of Brunswick.
We have a first name for a spouse (Martha) but don't know if this is the
wife of the father or son. It might even be that both father and son were
married to a Martha. We know that Thomas sold property to George Hicks in
the 1790s. This is also the time we see Thomas Poythress showing up in
Georgia. Is this the same Thomas Poythress we have selling land in the
1770s? Don't know -- yet.

We have a Hardimon Poythress and James Poythress in Northampton Co., NC --
both appear to be described as "free persons". Jean Spille is our expert
on these families.

As for the Epes family, there are long associations. For example, Mary
Eppes (dau. of Capt. William Eppes) married William Poythress, Jr. We also
have some evidence that Peter Poythress of Branchester (m. Elizabeth Bland)
had one son William who first married ? Bollling and then a ? Marable.
This William's sister (Lucy) married John Eppes of Eppesville. Other
sisters married into the Bland, Mayo, Atkinson, Randolph and Batte
families. These families in turn connect to the Woodlief, Hardaway,
Harrison, etc. The Bland - Poythress connections are very complex -- to
say the least.

Other than the archives for this list and some references to published
sources, I really don't have more to offer at this time.

Best,

Al Tims		07/31/1997 10:10:45
Thomas M. PoythressCraig R. ScottHi! Craig Scott is attending a family reunion (his wife's) and will be out
of town for a few days. But he asked me to forward to the list some
research he had completed before he left. I'm just transcribing what he
gave me, so you'll have to direct any questions you might have to him.
Regards, Michelle Krowl

M324 #225

Military History of Thomas M. Poythress

Thos. M. Poythress Pvt Co D 2d Regt Va. Artillery
company muster roll Mar & Apr 1862
enlisted 20 Jan @Lombardy Grove by
Camp Alexander for 12 months
absent sick at Camp Winder
company muster roll Apr 30- May 31, 62
absent Detailed at Camp Winder over 35

T. M. Portress 2 Arty Va
Register of Gen Hosp Camp Winder
Diarrhea adm: 9 May 62
disd convalst

16 May 1862 Detailed as a nurse @ Camp Winder

not dated, but inspection report was
--> 26 Aug 1864 list of detailed men and employees
at the C. S. Shoe Depot under the
control of Stephen Putnex, Capt., AQM
place of nativity Va
detailed Maj. Pexton
no of order 12
enlisted 2nd Batt L. F.
residence Richmond
age 44

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		07/31/1997 12:05:21
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #70Dear Poythress list,

Here I am again, speaking up just in case someone runs across what I am
looking for. The Poythress list seems to be the meeting place for Bolling,
Ransom and Portis/Porthress/Portice and my Burnett's have a Bolling
connection I am trying to pin down: to wit - I have been told that BOLLING
CLARK (one of many but mine died old and rich on June 17, 1809 in Dinwiddie
County, VA. My great great grandfather, JOSEPH BOLLING BURNETT was named
after him by his mother, Mary Baugh, daughter of Daniel Baugh and the
daughter of BOLLING CLARK. MARY BAUGH BURNETT is mentioned in BOLLING CLARK'S
will. This is proved. But I am told that
My Bolling Clark is the son of Christopher Clark and PENELOPE BOLLING. Does
anyone know where I can find out about PENELOPE? Seems my links also always
come down to a woman that is under reported. MISS CLARK who was Bolling
Clark's daughter is not mentioned in the will, but that is not too
surprizing. He was in his 90s and even some of his GRAND children had died.
That is why I have no first name for her.
Won't take up more of your time. Just please make a mental note to tell me
if in your deep researching you should find information on BOLLING CLARK,
PENELOPE or CHRISTOPHER BOLLING or a listing of BOLLING CLARK'S children by
his wife WINIFRED BURFORD or BUFORD. Thanks.
I am still keeping my eyes open for Robert and Benjamin Portress/Ransom and
Kisiah Portis/Portress. A few research avenues are opening up, but slowly.

Keep up the good work.

Caroline Burnett Cook
CarBurCo@aol.com		08/01/1997 1:32:45
Re: Lewis, Sr. and Jr.Lyn & BPW:

Okay, so I goofed and can't read. I rechecked and it sure enough does say
Sr. not Jr. Always thankful for the eagle eyes in this crowd....I'd be
tracing folks in South Dakota otherwise.

Its to bad we can't yet"get behind" Lewis and see if there were any "Y"
surnames he wanted to "preserve"....or perhaps maybe use to flatter a
potential "legitor".

Wouldn't your case that the "Y" has a social implication.....be compomised by
the fact that he gave the other son a middle name (or initial) also? Unless
of course it turns out that "M" is a "symbol" rather than a name.

This one is worth digging for!

Maynard

08/01/1997 8:39:55
Re. Senior & JuniorPat & Maurice CreweGreetings all,
For what it is worth I thought I would just tell you of my findings in
Gloucestershire. In 2 separate cases I have come across a family with 2
sons of the same name alive at the same time. I thought at first that one
must have died as a child, but the wills of both of the parents
mentioned "my son William the elder" and "my son William the younger".
I am not suggesting that this is the case with all the senior and junior
references you have found, as it is rare, but it does happen!
Best wishes, Pat		08/01/1997 8:55:26
Re: Poythress Drug Store - Richmond, VAAl, thanks for including this on the web. I have one of these bottles
which my mother gave me. I have not looked at it lately, but as I recall
it is identical to this. The web text is informative. I really never
knew much about the person and the firm behind my bottle. Thanks, BPW,
for the contribution. -lpb

On Wed, 30 Jul 1997 20:46:20 -0500 "Albert R. Tims"
writes:
>Poythress List,
>
>We've just added a small artifact to the Poythress web page at
>http://www1.minn.net/~atims/bottle.html
>
>Actually, we have a bit more information on the business of William
>Poythress of Richmond. I do not know if any of us have his genealogy
>established. Perhaps in time :-).
>
>One of the things that makes this item so interesting is that it was
>found
>(cap on) in the sand on a river bank in Florida in the 1990s by a
>POYTHRESS! Fun stuff!
>
>Best,
>Al Tims
>
>
>
>
>		08/01/1997 11:10:16
Poythress Questions - Ken PooleAlbert R. TimsFollowing was sent by Ken to list. Had some little addressing error that
caused it to bounce. Some VERY interesting questions below. I can say
pretty clearly that Jane Poythress was not the daughter of Lt. William
Poythress. Our 17th century records are quite consistent and clear that it
was Francis Poythress who was in the House of Burgesses in 1644. See web
page -- 17th Century records for a chronological survey of these records.
Best,
Al Tims

Poythress List,

1. I have found a record which says that William Hancock m. Susan Poynter
(sic). Wm was killed at the Berkley Hundred, in 1622. I have been told she
was a Poythress. Is this wrong?

2. Thomas Rolfe married Jane Poythress, we are told. However, we are
finding a lot of misinformation out there, or confusion. Here's what we
have on her father:

(We found one record which says his name is Francis Poythess. However
another of the family histories we have looked at was done by Carrie
Bradshaw Bolin. Carrie says Jane was the daughter of Lt. William
Poythress.

Lt William Poythress was said to be a member of the House of Burgesses, A.
D. 1644, for Charles City. He would have been born much earlier, as his
rank does suggest an older man. His daughter by way of and estimate is
born about 1620 - 1630.)

As you see we are unsure of the information we have. Can someone exchange
Bland information with us also? What names are you looking for? I hope to
connect with others. We have compiled more than 24 thousand names in a
database, many of early VA.

Looking for: Bland, Kennon, Bolling, Poythress (any spelling), Green,
Hunnicutt, Hartwell, Randolph, Eppes, Sanders, Saunders, Freeman, Etheldred
(sic) Harris, West Harris, Yarborough, Dinion Wright, Hurt, Rolfe, Blake,
Pool/Pole, Callicutt, Page.

Ken Poole		08/01/1997 11:16:18
Ga. Land LotteriesLyn.....I have some of the records of Georgia Land lotteries. My plan was to
do some more text copying next time I'm in GDAH and do an "article" on
Poythresses in the Georgia Land Lotteries. Al could have then put it on the
page and that "site" could be something of a permanent resource.

Inasmuch as I have two projects ahead of it and will need to spend some
additional time in GDAH to do it justice, I'll hang up what I have now so
that we can use it as a "placement guide" for Poythresses (a partial one
anyway).

There were 6 lotteries. In general the land was "ceded" (euphemism) from the
Creeks and Cherokees and the sequence of the lotteries is generally westward.
Also in general, the succeeding boundaries were from river to river.
Virtually all the Georgia rivers except the Chattahoochie and it's
tributaries flow SSE into the Atlantic either directly or as a tributary.

My impression(and its ONLY my impression) is that in terms of administration
the thing was something of a government boondoggle. The lotteries spanned a
time frame from 1805 to 1832. Various "incentives" in terms of extra draws
were awarded from time to time. True to all incentives, you can almost tell
what the particular incentives were by the number of registrants signing on
for the incentive. In the lotteries where orphans got an extra draw, most
folks were orphans. In the lotteries favoring vets, almost everyone had
served in Rev. War. even though that particular draw was in 1820 and the war
had ended 41 years prior.

Anyway, here are the Poythress entrants I have so far:

1805 -- 4 columns: name, registration number, B=blank or P=prize, county in
which registered (not county in which land was won).
Page # 280
Poythress, Edwards (sic) 47 B B Burke
Francis 613 B B Hancock
George 65 B B Burke
Martha 50 B B Burke
Meribeth(sic) 968 B B Scriven(sic)
William 967 B P Scriven(sic).
[comments: hint of connection between William and Meredith...they went to
register together...sequential registration numbers. Land awarded was that in
the orginal Baldwin and Wilkinson Counties. Do not infer that a winner
always (or even most of the time) "moved" to his or her land; an award was
frequently sold for an immediate profit. I would personally speculate that
this practice of selling one's award at least to some extent "drove" the
evolving rules to allow into a particular lottery only "non-winners" of
previous lotteries. No surprises with the Poythress entrants, they are
pretty much right where they ought to be in 1805].

1807 (Only names of winners publically published), 5 columns: name, Militia
District where registered, Lot # won, District of the lot, County of the
lot.
BURKE COUNTY
Poythress, Thomas (orphans of) Sharp's 44 22 Wilkinson County
HANCOCK COUNTY
Poythress, Elizabeth Coffee's 31 6 Wilkinson County
Poythress, Francis, orphans of Coffee's 290 24 Wilkinson County
Still on 1807, there is a supplementary publication by Silas Lucas of
"eligible entrants for 1807 lottery. Lucas lists: Edward Poythress, Martha
Poythress, and George Poythress. In many references the 3 names above were
published as a sub-heading for "orphans of"....but the author would actually
have had to get the names from 2 different places. (Lucas not searched for
Hancock County).

[comments: since Martha would presumably be a "widow" and not an "orphan"
wouldn't this Martha likely be Martha Elizabeth Amanda Poythress (very late
daughter of Thomas?]

1820
Contrary to an erroneous opinion held by many genealogists, the land
lotteries were
NOT held to give land to Rev. War vets. Vets, only if indigent or invalid,
were awarded an extra draw plus the "regular" draw to which they were
entitled as citizens. (Winners "published" but registrant's list was kept
somewhere else)

Five columns: Grantee, militia district, land lot#, section, county the "won"
land.
SCRIVEN COUNTY
Poythress, Cleaton Robert's 177 10 Early County
Poythress, Maryann Lovitt's 431 10 Irwin County
BURKE COUNTY
Poythress, George Bell's 194 18 Early County
WARREN COUNTY
Poythress, Joseph Hubbert's 98 15 Irwin County

1821
Only winners published. Four columns: Grantee, militia district, land lot#,
section,
County of location for land won.
SCREVEN
Poythress, James P. Mill's 232 7 Henry County
Poythress, Meredith Jr. Mill's 92 10 Houston County
Poythress, Meredith Mill's 32 16 Houston County
Poythress, Jas. P. Mill's 232 7 Henry County

[the lot size was 202 1/2 acres, one of the Merediths is on record selling
202 1/2 acres in Houston County, I have it around here somewhere. Houston
County (Perry)
is 30 mi. south of Macon; it is highly unlikely that either Meredith would
have moved that far and there is no evidence that either did move that far.
This is James P. Poythress' first appearance on the scene, he won twice so
he had some special qualification. What I don't know. I'll add it when I
study this lottery.]

1827
Four columns: "Fortunate Drawer", militia dist., dist.#, County of won land.
BURKE
Poythress, William R. S. Gordon's 177 31 Lee County

1832 (Land & Gold)
Call this list questionable until I can get to GDAH
WARREN COUNTY Dist. Sec. Lot County (won)
Poythress, Hardimend 2 2 752 Cherokee County
Poythress, Joseph 2 3 7 Cherokee County
Poythress, Meredith, Sr. 16 2 1078 Cobb County
Poythress, S. M., W, (?) 16 2 471 Cobb County
Poythrep, Meredith, Jr. 3 3 76 Cobb County.
Poytress, Sarah E. (orph) 6 3 ? Cherokee County
TROUP COUNTY
Poythress, Joseph (soldier)7 4 ? Cherokee County.

[comments: the 1832 lottery was referred to as the Land and Gold lottery; I
surmise that if one won land in Cherokee County (where the gold was) it was
considered a mining site, if one won land in Cobb County (Marietta) is was
merely farm land....
I need to do some work on this.

In fact, I need to do some work on the whole thing which is now on my agenda]

Maynard		08/01/1997 11:39:22
Lewis/George/MeredithBud Poythress

Bud.....remember the will in which George mentions his brother Lewis in
Virginia? We asked ourselves: well, if Meredith was a brother why didn't he
get mentioned too?
A very logical speculation at the time was: Well, Meredith, Sr. would very
likely be dead by the mid-1820's when George died because Meredith was a much
older brother.

According to what we just turned up in the registrants and winners of the
Georgia
Land Lotteries: not so. Meredith (and clearly Meredith, SR.) was at least
registered, if not present, at the time of the 1832 Georgia Land/Gold
lottery.

This still doesn't rule out the possibility (or even probablity) that
Meredith, Sr. was a brother to George and Lewis, it just says to me that we
shouldn't use his death as a reason for not being in George's will. You (or
anybody else) have any problem with that deduction? Or....put another
way...if Meredith was George's brother, George sure blew an nice opportunity
to let posterity know about it.

Maynard		08/01/1997 11:39:37
Re: Lewis/George/Meredith & what if?Maynard,

You are right, seems Meredith was still living when George wrote his Will and
when he died, if Martha's "death dates" for the Poythress boys are reasonable
correct.

BUT WHAT IF? (Try this on for size only)

1st note the birth dates: 1760 - Meredith
then 5 years later 1765 - George
" 2 " " 1767 - Thomas
James, Jr.
" 2 " " 1769 - Edward
" 2 " " 1771 - Lewis

Doesn't it seem a little odd that 5 years pass before Meredith & Edith's
2nd child came along? Birth control being what it was in those days, I 'd
say that that seems rather unusual. Then after George (the 2nd child) came,
they had one every 2 years like clockwork. That is, if we discount MEAP as a
child of Thomas and Martha.

Do you suppose (it possibly), as Martha Dixon contends, Edith did in
fact "died in VA and could it have been in childbirth, maybe"?' -- probably
Meredith's birth? Something not at all unheard of back then!

Then just maybe Meredith married a 2nd time, while still in VA, and
might her name have been "Martha", as his mother was also named? And not
Susan R. Maner, which I still contend is much too young for Meredith (Sr) to
have married. And too, wasn't there a second "Martha" floating around back
there somewheres for a while -- who we were trying to connect with someone?
Maybe she belonged to Meredith Sr?

That might open up another box of worms though.

However, that would make "Meredith and George as well as the rest of
the Poythress boys only "half brothers" and obviously would explain George
mentioning only his youngest "full" brother" as "still living in Virginia" in
his WIll. Then too, I believe George's mention of Lewis only in a reference
manner of the possibliity that if his first named beneficary "was not still
living", then his property would pass to Lewis and his heirs.

Just something else I thought you might like to chew on? For it seems
we have a numer of Thomases, Francises, Hetties, Johns, Jameses and a few
other named characters floating around where name duplications seems to be
the orders of the day.

Things are looking up here Maynard, so just in case all works out here
for me on the trip to Slyvania and the "McBride Methodist Church Poythress
Bar-be-cue" gathering, you'd better send me the proposed "plan of the day"
for that Sunday, August 17th. IF i do make it, I'll most likely have our #2
grandson with me.

Our very best wishes,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com - 8/2/97 1:55 PM, aor 1355 hrs)

Maynard, send me the

Otherwise, the fact that Lewis being 6 years younger than Geroge and
the youngest in the family too might have cause George to mention only him.
Sort of taking care of the "baby of the family", cause if you are the
youngest you never outgrow that title, regardless of your age.		08/02/1997 1:12:10
Update on Research in EnglandAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I'm still working with Liz Jack to investigate Poythress folk (or
suspects). I asked her to check St. Dunstan's in London for Poythress
references, etc. Below is her message back to me. I'm on my way out for
the evening, but hope to give this closer look tomorrow. Looks promising
..

Best,
Al Tims

ubject:
Re: Poythress
Date:
Sat, 2 Aug 1997 16:11:14 +0100
From:
Elizabeth Jack
To:
Albert R Tims

Hi Al

I had a good but tiring time in a very hot and humid (and dirty) London
last week. Now I have to type up everything I found for my clients!

>If time permits and the spirit is willing, I'd love to know what might
>exist for St. Dunstans. Again, we need to focus on the Poythress
>surname for the period before 1640.

I did not have a great deal of time to spare but while I was checking a
book of early wills at the Society of Genealogists library for someone
else, I found:

PEWTRIS William 1743 Jan ESS W PROB 11/723 sig 18
PEWTRIS James 1709 Aug Pts A PROB 6/85
PEWTRIS Thomas 1746 Jan HEF W PROB 11/764 sig 23
PEWTRIS John 1708 Jun SRY W PROB 11/502 sig 151

I am not sure what the abbreviation Pts stands for but it seems to mean
'Foreign parts' or equivalent. Are any of these wills of interest?
e.g. James?

I had the chance to look at the indexes of early marriages for St
Dunstans - I could only find the marriages book, 'Marriages Register, St
Dunstan's Stepney, 1568-1639 and 1640 -1696', but there is supposed to
be a christenings and a burials index there as well so I'll check that
next time - someone else must have been using it or else it is stored
elsewhere - this was my first time at the SoG library as I only joined
this year - they have some wonderful records there!

I found:

18 June 1593 John Portus and Jone Thorogood of Ratclift
1 Oct 1593 Edward Pewtris and Margaret Hollicom
1 Oct 1600 Daniel Portis and Ellen Ethell both of Stepney
20 Aug 1603 Nicholas Skrene of Ratclift and Jone Portus, W
1 May 1622 John Thomas of Lymehouse, Blacksmith, & Jane Peuters, M
17 AUg 1624 Lawrence Whit of Ratcliff, Marrener, and Margarrit
Portis
22 Jan 1625/6 Henry Pewtris of Limehouse, shipwright and
Clare Webster, M, L, F.O.
14 Sep 1612 Paule Portis of St Georges in South worke and Elizabeth
Bently of Shadwell, W
4 Jun 1661 Joseph Griffen of Popler, smith and Margrett Pewtris, M

M = Maid, W = Widow, L = Licence and F.O. = Faculty Office (don't know
what the latter means.)

I included the Portis/Portrus just in case there is a connection.

Now, all of the above mentioned places are along the waterfront just
down river of the Tower of London so it seems to me that there was a
family or families of Pewtrises living near the River Thames involved in
occupations on the river/sea. This would tie in with the Frances
Poythress joining Lawrence Evans company in London, and sailing abroad
possibly.

On the other hand, the lack of any Poythress spelling is disappointing.
I have only come across that spelling in the Gloucestershire/Herefordshi
re/Worcestershire areas so far. It may be worth doing more detailed
checking in HEF and WOR some time.

So, you have some more information but how much can be inferred from it
is difficult to judge!

>Francis Poythress was reported to be a factor of Lawrence Evans of Wood
>Street in London. Evans was probably associated with the Virginia
>Company in some fashion, but I have yet to find any solid evidence to
>support this belief. Evans filed suit againt Poythress for the loss of
>L2000 associated with goods shipped to Virginia.

I did not have chance to look at the Virginia Company, nor the Jane
Poythress/Thomas Rolfe/Pocahontas connection.

I will be back in London for the day on Tuesday, at the new Family
Records Centre at Myddleton House which combines the old St Ctaherine's
House (Births, marriages and deaths, IGI, etc.) with the old Chancery
Lane (censuses, early wills) and various other items which include some
parish registers from the London area so I hope to check the rest of St
Dunstans then.

Will be in touch.
Liz
Elizabeth Jack : ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk
Hidden Heritage : http://www.hidden-heritage.com

Researching : BLINKHORNE / BLENKARN / SOSBE / GWINNUTT / RANN
: BASTARD / SEAPEY / JACK / HOLLOWAY / DIVERS
: PHILPOTT and PURDON in IRELAND

Gloucestershire FHS : http://www.compulink.co.uk/~rd/GENUKI/gfhs.htm		08/02/1997 4:21:54
Unknown BollingsKen PooleWhat was required to become an attorney before 1700? Where did they get the
education? How long was the school? The more I learn the less I know, it
seems.

Since I began a search for other Bollings in the area of old Henrico, I
have been finding some there. I am told Bolling were connected several
times to Poythress, but have not made these connections. Who were these
other connections?

I have found Bolling in Stafford. Is any one working these lines? I am in
touch with several (more than a dozen) Bolling researchers, some of whom
are hard at it. Would some of you like to join a group?

Greens married into Bollings, perhaps via Archers, anyone working those
lineages? Likely in Amelia or Mecklenburg.

I have found evidence of 2 John Bollings in Henrico (not the Junior),
anyone else working the second John Bolling?

Ken Poole		08/02/1997 4:27:27
Re: Poythress Drug Store - Richmond, VA Fianlly, I have something to add to the discussion group...When I worked
as a pharmaceutical rep in Richmond, I "knew" about a Poythress Drug Company
...I always assumed that it was a very small production company, but I feel
certain that it was located in Hopewell, VA......Some of the MDs that I used
to call on were on Poythress Avenue in Hopewell........ Small world 🙂

Alice Dixon

08/02/1997 4:48:28
George/LewisBud,
You wrote: However, that would make "Meredith and George as well as the rest
of
the Poythress boys only "half brothers" and obviously would explain George
mentioning only his youngest "full" brother" as "still living in Virginia" in
his WIll. Then too, I believe George's mention of Lewis only in a reference
manner of the possibliity that if his first named beneficary "was not still
living", then his property would pass to Lewis and his heirs.

Just thinking out loud........could it be that Lewis stayed at home to mind
the store, so to speak? Perhaps he was the link to the family interests there
in VA or responsible for aging parents, etc? Of course, that would throw
another block in the way of Thomas, whom we think to be his father, and who
is now we think in GA.

AY! Barbara (BPW)

08/02/1997 6:24:13
Wm Poythress 1739Charles NealIn my Spring '97 issue (rec'd 6/21/97) of the __Magazine of Virginia
Genealogy__ (MVG) is an article entitled "Amelia County, Virginia
Tithables, 1739" which is information that Joanne Lovelace Nance
transcribed from the Library of Virginia's Accession No. 20919, Tithable
Lists, Amelia County, Virginia. Since MVG does a once-a-yr index, I don't
have access to an index for the article yet, but I did happen to see listed
the following fellow of interest to us:
On a List of Tithables Between Deep & Flat Creek, 1739 appears "Wm
Poythress" who only had one tithable in his household. (In 1739 white
males 16 & over were the tithables.)

BPN 8/2/97		08/02/1997 6:25:30
Ultimate vs InstantCharles NealA reminder from an article I recently saw, which had been reprinted in LA
Westside Gen. Soc's LAWGS Newsletter of 8/97 from the Ohio Genealogical
Society's __Pathways__ via the Stark Co, OH __Treeclimber__ of 5/97: Terms
that we encounter mainly in old newspapers & manuscripts refer to dates
such as:
Monday instant: if used, usually means today
The 10th instant: the 10th of the present month
The 10th ultimo: the 10th of the last month
Monday last: the most recent Monday
Monday next: the nearest Monday to follow
December last: the most recent December, even though this was in the
previous year.
"Next" and "last" are usually written out.
"ULT" is frequently seen for the term "ultimo"
"INST" is frequently seen for the term "instant"
In interpreting all of the above, one must refer to the date of the
document being read.

BPN		08/02/1997 6:25:34
Poythress/Related FamiliesKen PooleCan anyone tell me about the Whiting family? Did they intermarry with the
Beverely and or Wilson? Ken

08/02/1997 8:29:45
The Ugly BollingKen PooleI am looking for sources, and if any of you have to sell, or know where I
can get the below mentioned books, please let me know.

I have also added some "Points to Ponder", and a short bit on the Ugly
Bollings. Ken

Times New Roman

Bolling Sources



1. Pond Creek and Letterbox, Robert M. shephard,
Professor of Art at the University of Kentucky. 1990.

2. From Pocahontas to the Bollings, James Reed Lawrence,
Jr., 1985. From Benjamin II, son John.

3. Our Kin, Mary Denham Ackerly and Lula Jeter Parker, JP
Bell Company, Lynchburg, VA. Bedford, Virginia History, likely they
copied from the "Colonial Families of America."

4. The Bollings - Bowlin, Bolen Family, Ted and Lois
Strange, a search for Henry Bolen b. 25-26 Dec 1782 or 84. Said to be an
excellant book, and was written as given to them.

5. Memoir, Robert Bolling, c. 1764, 1803.

6. The Bollings of Wise County, Virginia, WS Rose.

Wyndham Robertson



7. Pocahontas and her Descendants, Wyndham Robertson. This
book was written in 1887 and re-printed in 1982. It states on page 32
that Major John Bollings had nineteen children, but goes on to list only
seven. Edward was omitted in this book, he would become number 20.

The UGLY BOLLINGS.



 Wyndham Robertson goes on to tell us why he did not list all
the children, in perhaps the most arrogant statement ever made public,
by someone less that nobility. He goes on to say there were other
branches of the tree, but those branches were lacking, but read on. Next
Wyndham Robertson engages in a series of statements which were an effort
at double talk, thinly hidden. He alerts you to use caution when you
research this family. In the preface to his book, Robertson
states:
1

"...I have to lament the want of completeness I sought.......as a
genealogy, baffled in part by ignorance of

2
3

the sources to apply to, and in part, also, by the indifference of many
to the object in view. To these causes

are owing the many bare and unsightly limbs it exhibits, that disappoint
the eye by want of their proper

4

foliage. I hope however, that these very defects themselves will serve to
stimulate many, who will regret to

5

see them, to yet supply these waste places, in some future reprint, with
their proper garniture. I submitt it

6

as it is, however, with all its defects.... If.... I have succeeded in
laying a safe foundation whereon others

7

may raise a more complete structure, I shall be content..."

When one reads carefully what he has just said, one will
understand this statement is a blatant attempt to disregard some of the
branches connected to this family. He has just told the entire set of
Bolling who were omitted, that they were without garniture. Let's read
this statement again, and break it down. The numbers atop the sentence
are what we are referring to here.

Note 1, He tells us he regrets his book is lacking in completeness, thus
he has admitted it is incomplete to the extent it fails as a genealogy,
(his words) and in the next sentence he tells us why.

Note 2, He goes on to suggest he is uncertain of which set of data he
ought to use....thus he has more than one set, but he feels compelled to
use only the one set: the others he is not going to tell us about.
Earlier he told us he had a list compiled of 19 people. But only seven of
this list would be considered.

Note 3, Here it is, out front and to the point, the indifference he
speaks of is coming from some of those with whom he is working,, who
have no desire to clean up the genealogy. This indifferent group of
people would ,sadly, tell it the way it was. Here we learn that he is
not printing a genealogy, as he has already admitted, but that he wants a
picture book genealogy, and this family has warts which must be hidden
from public view. If you doubt this meaning, read the next statement,
for it proves the point.



Note 4, He warns us that we must be concerned with the many "limbs" of
this family who lack the "proper foliage". In other words, he has taken
pains to prevent the other families he has found from appearing in his
book. Surely you will understand that he did so to protect the family.

Consider what he has just said. He has just told us in plain
English that he has found "limbs" of the family tree alive and well, but
that he is ashamed of them, even to the extent that he feels he must
omitt them from his book. If you doubt this read on, for he adds in the
next statement that these Bolling descendants of Pocahontas "disappoint
the eye".

In honor of this honest, relentless, and dedicated geneoligist, we
shall call the family lines which he selected for publication the " Ugly
Bolling", for they know Ugly when they see it, even to the extent they
must protect themselves from those branches of the Bolling family who
"disappoint the eye".

Note 5, He is just warming up to the subject, he gos on to say he feels
that perhaps his work will stimulate other Bolling at some later date to
add these Bolling to the genealogy, but with the "proper garniture".
Garniture is of course, a process of word-smithing, which is entended to
make some of these "Ugly Bolling" look more important than they were.



To sum this up, he admits, in his own words, there were
other Pocahontas descendants, but they were omitted from his work. If
the basic standards of genealogy are considered here, his work is not a
genealogy at all. It is instead a work of art, designed to please the
eye, and hide the many ugly limbs of the Bolling family, from the prying
eyes of the crust of Virginia society.

Further research has uncovered more of this mans effort. The
"Memoirs", which he and a Mr. Randolph published, was so footnoted, that
when published, it was really Mr. Robertsons work. Mr. Robertson then
goes on to use the list in Memior for his book, and has the gall to refer
to it as anothers work. We have learned the publisher, at the time, said
much of the book he was given had been marked out, and footnotes and
additional pages added for his to work from.

Garniture



Someone asked what garniture is? Garniture is a form of word
smithing. For example "proper garniture" could make the Big Foot of the
northwest look something like this.

Harry Bigge Foote, one of the founding fathers of the northwest, is
believed to have descended from King Edward, and French Royalty . Mrs.
Too Dittledoo studied this family for years, and says Harry is believed
to be short for Harrison which clearly suggests Harrison Bige Foote if of
the Royal Blood of King Edward. (Here go into 200 pages of King Edwards
genealogy followed by 200 more pages of French Royalty).

Mrs Too Dittledoo, a descendant of Harrison Bigge Foote, is
promoting her book in malls all across Washington State, and was recently
entertained in the White House by "you know who", when it was discovered
"you know who", also had roots into the Bigge Foote family.

8. Of Whom I Came, Ect., Zelma Wells Price. 1963. She was
a DAR member, National Number, 455405.

9. My Bradshaws and Allied Families, Carrie Bradshaw Bolin.

10. Bollings, Hattie L. Bollings.

11. Bollings Descendants, Edward Watson Bollings.

12. Perry County History, Hazard Chapter of DAR.

13. Pennington, Will Lake.

14. Dozens of Cousins, William G. O'Connor.

15. History of Wise County, Luther Addington.

16. Cantrell File, JF Cantrell.

17. Dickey Diaries, Rev. John J.
Dickey.

You can order the microfilm copies of the Dickey Diaries
through the Family History Centers with the Mormon Tabernacle
Church. It takes about two weeks. You read it at the center- but since
that's where the copier is it works out well. Linda

18. Pioneer Families of Clay County, Kelly Morgan.

19. Chart, Benjamin H. Latrobe. May 1796. This chart listed
18 children....

20. OMSS, Old Manuscript, which we are told
includes the names in the Cobbs family Bible. This list is
said to be the same as the VOLTA list. Having told you this, remember
that it is important to understand there is not a shred of evidence that
a COBBS family bible ever existed.

Perhaps it too belongs under the label, "proper garniture". Did
the "Ugly Bolling" invent the COBBS bible? This does seem to have
happened.

James S. Patton

The VOLTA LIST, 1965

James S. Patton became an important figure in the 1985
edition of "Pocahontas' Descendents", he is said to have been the one to
"bring to light" the VOLTA LIST, and "has incorporated many of his
finding into articles, ect., that have appeared in the GOOCHLAND COUNTY
HISTORICAL SOCIETY MAGIZINES." Page 328 of the 1985 edition of
POCAHONTAS' DESCENDENTS.

From the above
information one can infer that James S. Patton is a force to be dealt
with in the world of serious historical research. But read on dear
reader, for this is the same Mr. Patton, who also wrote in
1965 about the VOLTA LIST, and says flat out, that, " one or more
bibles were available at the time, but not now extant." We have no idea
how he concludes that , as the time he is speaking of was 1900. And by
his own admission, he has no idea of how many ever existed. "One or
more"., her tells us , on page 328 of Pocahontas' Descendents, 1985
edition. Warming up to the subject, he goes on to tell us (on the same
page), "There is no indication of the possessors at the time she copied
the record." He has just said he has no idea if there was a bible, or
who would have owned one, but he is fast to add that "she copied the
record".

He seems confident that he knows exactly what she did search for in
the year 1900, as he tells us that in the next paragraph. Listen to
this; he tells us she searched for bibles which had been at Bolling
Hall. Did he mean may have been at Bolling Hall. Has someone told him
there had been bibles there? Besides, Bolling Hall belonged to the White
Bolling. Not Pocahontas lines at all.

However, he goes on to tell us of a search for a bible, in great
detail , which one ought to note. He tells us, the search proceeded,
first to Richard M. Bolling, who directed "her" to Robert Skipwith in
Powhatan County, who directed her to Wm Albert Bolling of Goochland C.
H. (does that C. H. mean the County Home?), surely not the Ugly
Bolling. Wm Albert denied he had the bible, and redirected the search
to his sister, Mrs. Susan King, who may have the "Leaves" to the old
bible.

Did he say leaves? Yes he did. He is
telling us the old bible was dismanteled for reasons only they could
tell us. However, as the search proceeded it was learned that Susan did
not have "them". Them, meaning the leaves from the old bible.

Susan King, redirects the searchers to Tom Bolling, Jr. of
Richmond, as she thinks he may have the bible. But you guessed it, old
Tom didn't have the bible either.

If Patton is correct about this account of the search for the
bible, he would know if they found it. I think this account, did really
exist, and was an expense account, as someone was paying her to search
for the bible. Did she find it? No, she did not.

Read on for you would think she did, from the following comments
made by Patton. "It is my theory that Robert Skipwith was in Possession
of them (does he mean the leaves of the bible?), and in the destruction
of his home by fire in 1909, five years after his death, when his wife
Lizzie perished in the fire, it , or they, were destroyed".

The VOLTA list, we are told by some, came from that very bible
which no one could find, the one with the missing leaves, at that.

This is too much even for Pocahontas'
Descendents, at the end of the VOLTA list discussion on page
329, edition 1985, they seem movitated to muddy up the waters of
reality a bit. It is here they tell us that the VOLTA list "appears" to
be the same as the eighteen children listed in the OMSS. Yes we agree.
We think Mrs. Pratt copied the OMSS. We know she never found a bible,
don't we, thanks to James Pattons research. If research is what one
calls this sort of babbling.

We are then told this "suggests" that Mrs Pratt and the preparer of
the OMSS examined the same source. And further more the OMSS came from
the COBBs bible. Let's face it, we don't even know if the OMSS even
existed? Did the bible tell us so? No, it did not. There was never a
bible.

Thereare two major sources, which are said to back up the
Pocahontas' Descendents view point. The OMSS and the VOLTA list, which by
their own admission is one and the same list, both of unknown origin.

Does the Virginia Historical Society back this sort of thing up?
I asked the Virginia Historical Society if there is a way we can force
these people to use accepted methods of genealogy. Their answer: no!
There are no standards. Period. Babbling is ok in Virginia.

So now you know when you read the VOLTA list, it is a copy of
another source, the OMSS. By the admission of Pocahontas' Descendents,
book, page, 329, 1985 edition.



21. VOLTA, Volta Bureau for the Deaf, Washington,
DC. Information collected by Mrs. Annie C. Pratt of Chelsea,
Massachusetts. Described as a professional genealogist.

This took place in the spring of 1900, in and around Richmond,
Goochland County, Virginia. She produced a list of 18 children. Her
work is a copy of the OMSS.

Garniture being the essence of the book, "Pocahontas' Descendants",
leads us to wonder if this dear lady was a "professional genealogist", as
we are told. If there was a degree for professional genealogists, we are
unaware of it. In this light the word professional is clearly garniture.

Beware readers, for I recently read a genealogy which began with,
"this family was the elite of the elite"; speaking of The Alston Family,
Chatham County, NC. Those who prefer garniture to fact would have no
problem with making Bigfoot one of the founding fathers of the
northwest. This practice is widespread, and centered mostly in the
northeast, but Virginia is playing catchup.

22. On page 327 of "Pocahontas Descendents", 1985 edition, we read: In
OMSS, in an "extract from the Cobbs family bible", the following children
are named: We think this is an extract of Parrish records of more than
one family of Bolling. It was extracted from Goochland. Pocahontas'
descendents lived in Henrico, not Goochland.

John, Archibald, Robert, Elizabeth, Thomas, John 2nd of this name, Robert
2nd of this name, Sarah, Ann, Mary, Edward, Sarah 2nd of this name,
Archibald 2nd of this name, Ann 2nd of this name, Eliza 2nd of this
name,Jane, Rebecca, Eliza 3rd of this name.

But in fact there is no evidence that this list was an "extract" from
anything. None, zip. Were this list to go to court, it would not be
admitted as evidence.

08/02/1997 9:02:46
Dawson - Poythress - Bass Land IssuesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

We have a land transaction from Thomas Poythress of Prince George County
Virginia and John Dawson Brunswick County Virginia on 6 July 1773:
Two Certain Tracts, Parcels or Dividends of Land Containing by Estamation
five hundred and Twenty five Acres (originally patented by John
Poythress).
Deed Book 11, pages 239-241, Brunswick County, Virginia

Three immediate questions are before us:

1. Is this the same Thomas Poythress we see in 1781 listed as the father
of Meredith Poythress (Meredith's marriage to Edith Cleaton)?

2. What connection exists between the Thomas Poythress selling these two
parcels of land and the John (or two John) Poythress we see originally
patenting these parcels?

3. What do we know of John Dawson? Below are several deeds from
Northampton Co., NC shown on Lea's Southern Bass web pages mentioning a
John Dawson. Obviously, Lea has listed these because they all involve
BASS. We would surely find more if we looked at all the Northampton deeds.
Still, seems reasonable to ask if this is the same person (or family). If
so, then a proper review might be in order.

A technical question: If John Dawson (or anyone else) owned plantations in
two states (NC and VA) would that person HAVE to declare a primary
residence or could that person BE of different locations, depending on when
and where transactions were taking place? This question might be equally
appropriate to ask about our Thomas Poythress being both in Georgia and
Virginia.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------------------------

P. 175 Wm. Cannady & Judith his wife of Edgecomb Co. to John Dawson of NH,
7 Apr 1744. 3 pds. 10 shil. VA 100A more or less a certain plantation of
ours on Urahe Swamp joining the mouth of the branch, edge of pocosin, James
Hutcherson, & the swamp. Wit: Wm. Boddie, John BASS, Jacob BASS. Feb Ct.
1744 (NOTE: John BASS will of Bertie Precinct Feb Ct 1732 left this 100A to
his daughter Jeudath Canady)

P. 185 John BASS of Northampton to Jethro BASS of Northampton. 24 Feb 1755
for the love and affection that I do bear unto my son 200A on the north
side of Uraha swamp, adj. The Honerable John Dawson, Wolf Pit branch and
John Bryant, it being the tract the sd John BASS purchased of William BASS
30 Dec 1742. Wit: John Duke, David Rice, D___y Hunter. Rec Feb 1755.

P. 180 Charles Council & his heirs to John BASS planter of same. 2 Aug
1762. 120A on Uraha Swamp, adj. Colo. Dawson, Jethro BASS. Wit: Jno.
Barnes, Joshua Tadlock, Willis Boddie. Aug Ct. 1862

P. 124 Charles Council of NH to John BASS of same. 2 Aug 1762. 10 pds
proclomation 120A which was part of 361A patented to sd. Council 28 Jul
1761 on Uraha Swamp, adj. Colonel Dawson, John BASS. Wit: Wm. Boddie,
Robert Sherrad, Jno. Barnes. Mar Ct 1768		08/02/1997 10:15:23
Used book on PoythressCharles NealFolks,

The below message was forwarded to me by Pamela Hurak.
I have no wish to buy this used book, but if it hooks
more directly to one of your lines then one of you may
be interested in obtaining it. Also, it is good to
know of the Book Search website (at very bottom of all
of the below).

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

From: Pamela G Hurak, INTERNET:researchva@juno.com
To: [unknown], [73622,2543]

Date: 8/1/97 9:06 PM

RE: You may want 2 look 4...

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Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:46:21 -0400
Subject: You may want 2 look 4...
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From: researchva@juno.com (Pamela G Hurak)

Barbara,

Hope this finds you well and enjoying your summer!

Saw this on Gen-Mat... Notice in the book "A Virginia Heritage" there is
mention of the Poythress family... didn't know if you saw this or not.

It gives enough information that you may be able to try to obtain it
through interlibrary loan at your local archives or family history
center.

Keeping you in mind, as always...
Pamela Hurak
ResearchVA@juno.com		08/02/1997 10:28:41
Dawson - Poythress - Bass Land IssuesCharles NealAl,

If you don't already have the equivalent (DeLorme or whoever) Atlas &
Gazetteer for North Carolina, like your Virginia one, you should probably
go ahead & order it to refer to in such instances. Alternatively, the
website you had mentioned some months ago for doing geological-survey
searchs could help with such questions.

Bertie & Northampton counties of NC were both immediately across the "state
line" and immediately across some rivers' windings (pre- being dammed up &
widening), from our VA areas of interest.

It is certainly possible for one person to be listed in 2 places because
he was in each of them at different times, but in SOME instances of
adjacent states' land holdings, it seems conceivable to me a slip-up might
have been recorded saying that John Doe was "of Bertie" when the house on
the property was actually located on the VA side of the property, and
technically, he should have been listed as "of (whatever county at that
point of time) VA."

Just my two-cents worth 😉

BPN		08/02/1997 10:47:43
Re: Dawson - Poythress - Bass Land IssuesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: Barbara Poythress Neal's message
>
> If you don't already have the equivalent (DeLorme or whoever) Atlas &
> Gazetteer for North Carolina, like your Virginia one, you should probably
> go ahead & order it to refer to in such instances. Alternatively, the
> website you had mentioned some months ago for doing geological-survey
> searchs could help with such questions.
>
> Bertie & Northampton counties of NC were both immediately across the
"state
> line" and immediately across some rivers' windings (pre- being dammed up
&
> widening), from our VA areas of interest.

Yep on the locations; although this really wasn't the issue I was trying to
track. I've got lots of maps 🙂 of these areas -- so the location of
Bertie and Northampton in relation to Brunswick is clear. I guess my real
question was more of a legal one.

If someone maintained two or more plantations, each with a house (or living
quarters), would there be advantages/restrictions/requirements/limitations
on which of these residences the person mentioned in legal documents.
Basically, when in North Carolina the "of" is listed as Northampton and
when in Virginia the "of" is listed as Brunswick (or whatever). Again, the
premise being that the person maintained more than one residence. Perhaps
this wasn't clear during the period and people did what they thought would
be to the best advantage.

Best,
Al Tims

08/02/1997 11:13:31
Library of Va. Online ExhibitCharles NealThought some of you might be interested in looking at this
exhibit.

BPN

-------------Forwarded Message-----------------

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Date: 8/1/97 9:01 AM

RE: Library of Va. Online Exhibit

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Subject: Library of Va. Online Exhibit
X-Listserver-Version: 6.0 -- UNIX ListServer by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Virginia History Discussion Group

The Library of Virginia is proud to announce an online
exhibition:

"The Common Wealth: Treasures from the Collections of The
Library of Virginia"

The URL is http://leo.vsla.edu

The online exhibition is a preview of the major exhibition of
the same title that opens at the Library of Virginia on
September 4, 1997. The online exhibition contains a sample of
the hundreds of rare and beautiful books, manuscripts, and
images that will be on display at the Library through September
7, 1998.

The online exhibition also offers information about the
Library's forthcoming book, The Common Wealth: Treasures from
the Collections of The Library of Virginia. The book includes
a history of the Library and more than 250 full-color
illustrations of items from the Library's collections.

Designed by Rose Schooff, the online exhibition is linked to
the rich resources of the Library of Virginia's Web
site. Thus it also provides an introduction to the numerous
databases, online catalogs, and millions of images available
through the Library's home pages.

Best of all, the online exhibition is a lot of fun. Take a
look!

John Kneebone
Publications and Educational Services Division
Library of Virginia		08/02/1997 12:04:44
Bolling/PoythressKen PooleI have a question to ask of anyone who can help. What is this about, and
who is Peter Bolling?

This came from the Amelia County, Virginia Court Order Book 1, 1735 - 1746,
page 133. Court Held August 19, 1743.

Chancery suit Henry Fitz. vs. Christopher Robertson; by consent of parties,
commission directed to Peter Bolling, William Poythress, Peter Jones &
Theophilus Feild, Gent., or any 2, to take depositions of wits. in Prince
George Co.,; Edward Booker. R `ichard Booker, Samuel Tarry & William
Booker, Gent., or any 2, to take depositions of wits. in Amelia Co.

Ken Poole		08/02/1997 12:26:26
Re: Bolling/PoythressAlbert R. TimsKen & List,

I'm not sure what the Chancery suit (listed immediately below) might be
about. However, we

> Amelia County, Virginia Court Order Book 1, 1735 - 1746,
> page 133. Court Held August 19, 1743.
> Chancery suit Henry Fitz. vs. Christopher Robertson; by consent of
parties,
> commission directed to Peter Bolling, William Poythress, Peter Jones &
> Theophilus Feild, Gent., or any 2, to take depositions of wits. in Prince
> George Co.,; Edward Booker. Richard Booker, Samuel Tarry & William
> Booker, Gent., or any 2, to take depositions of wits. in Amelia Co.

do know that William Poythress was the Sheriff of Prince George County
(starting in 1729). In 1738 he was named the Justice of the Peace for
Prince George. In addition, William Poythress and Peter Jones were
appointed inspectors of tobacco at Appomatox starting in 1732. Henning's
Statutes shows that in 1755 Isham Eppes and William Poythress were
appointed commissioners of Proprietors whose tobacco burnt at Bolling's
Point warehouse. This last reference post-dates your Amelia court record
and may add little beyond further establishing that this William Poythress
was clearly a person of some standing in the community.

William was the youngest son of John Poythress and Mary (Batte) Poythress.
His wife Sarah was the daughter of Col. Frances Eppes. Both William and
Mary are buried in the Blandford Church Cemetery. Sarah died in 1750 at
the age of 48 and William died in 1763 at the age of 68. We have a black
and white photograph of a drawing of Col. William Poythress on the
Poythress web page (Images).

Peter Jones, Robert Bolling and William Poythress werce leaders in the
Blandford Church.
Theophilus Field also was one of the founders of the Blandford Church. He
had a son and a grandson with the same name, but I suspect your 1743
reference is to the progenitor of this Field family in Virginia.

Capt. Richard Booker was contracted to build a small "Chapple" on Flat
Creek for the Bristol Parish circa 1735. I don't know much more about
Richard Booker at this time.

Peter Bolling is not a name I recall seeing before. I will continue to
watch for him. I wouldn't rule out the reference you cite as being Robert
Bolling rather than Peter Bolling Might be worth verifying the reference
-- especially if it comes from a book of abstracts.

Best,

Al Tims
>
> I have a question to ask of anyone who can help. What is this about, and
> who is Peter Bolling?
>
>
> Ken Poole		08/03/1997 1:18:06
Surname Registration-Genweb StatesAl Tims...

Al, I got to national genweb through> http://www.usgenweb.com/index.html

I saw where you had linked us to the national surname registry via the
webpage which is certainly the better way to do it than through an
individual....more friendly welcome, the "grab effect" of all that great
material... and all that stuff.

However, on this site, I then clicked on the map of the states a couple of
the individual states (Ga., NC...not Virginia) and we are not surname
registered. I was reluctant to register us because I'm under the impression
I could only give them my personal e-mail whereas you could hook them to a
direct link to the P-page in lieu of an e-mail address.

You think it would be a good idea to go to each of the states where P's were
known to be lurking at one time or another and link us in to the individual
states as surname contacts ? And if so, you want to link it....or tell me
how to...I'm not trying to dump the job off on you.

BTW, the Georgia page, or at least what I saw of it in an all too brief
session, wasn't in the same league with the Virginia pages...but maybe I was
comparing it mentally just with Carol's Brunswick page....up against which
most anybody's page would look shabby. Besides those folks in Va. have been
at it for centuries compared to
the rest of the South.

And Bud, if you want a hour or so worth of fun, go to the address above on
the web and click on Georgia and just wander around.....its awfully "bare
bones" right now but you can tell they have got a framework in place that is
terrific. All they need now is enough volunteers to start getting and
posting stuff.....put some branches and leaves on the tree.

If I had everyday access to the GDAH I'd volunteer for Screven in a heartbeat
but my guess is it would look awfully arrogant for some guy in Kentucky to
grab a south Ga. county. Anyway, the issue is moot....I ain't gonna get
everyday access to the GDAH anyway...unless my bride gets hit with a
lightning bolt of sanity and lets us head
for the red dirt and pine trees.

Nite folks, hope everyone had a nice weekend.

Maynard

08/03/1997 8:27:59
Lewis/Geo./MeredithBud Poythress

Bud, that scenario is an interesting one to chew on indeed. I'd like to hear
Lyn's ideas on that one since it basically says all the "action" took place
in Brunswick County. With respect to Edith Cleaton, I think we have all
unanimously decided
(with no evidence) that she never lived to move to Georgia.....perhaps its
the "no evidence" itself that is convincing....where is she in the records?
Just not to be found after marriage to Meredith.

If you can make it to Sylvania GREAT! Directions: almost anyway you come
from the north will make the last 10 miles into U. S. # 301. Either you are
on Ga. # 24 which overlays 301 for about 5 miles....or you are on 301 to
begin with. Ga. #25 merges with 301 from the west side and about 3 miles
later Ga. 25 leaves U. S. 301 now going further east. Get on Ga. 25 east and
McBride Methodist Ch. is on the right about 2 or 3 miles after you get off of
301. If you get to the "loop" around Sylvania you have gone too far on 301.

Church (optional but neat since "family" just about fills the little place
up) begins at
11:15....ends shortly after Noon at which time everyone just adjourns to the
recreation center next door for afternoon of socializing, etc. I usually
leave about 5 or so to get back to Atlanta but since I'm only going 40 miles
back up the road to Augusta I'll stay later this year....especially if you
are there to swap notes. So.....try your best!

Wouldn't have put all this detail "on the board" except I'd like to re-issue
the invitation to all within "getting to Sylvania" distance......hows the
supply of frequent flyer points for the California delegation?

Best,

Maynard		08/03/1997 8:58:55
A Fribble for the Day"How to be a Court Clerk Forever Loved by Family Historians"

In the front half of the 1800's, Screven County, Georgia had a clerk of the
Court named Seaborn Goodall who held that job for many years. I only hope
that some day I run into one of his descendants in order to sing Seaborn
Goodall's praises to them personally. Surely, Mr. Goodall wrote the
"manual" on how to be a magnificent court clerk.

Mr. Goodall won his fame with Screven County family historians by doing three
things. None of his peers seemed to have ever figured out what Mr. Goodall
did......if they even cared.

First, Mr. Goodall had a beautiful handwriting; at once pleasing to the eye
and with never a word or line that is unclear.

Seond, Mr. Goodall had a passion for organization. He was a man ahead of his
time and perhaps ahead of all time. His every book is INDEXED. For the
amatuer genealogist working on Screven County that is truly a blessing. Gone
are countless hours straining the eyes on microfilm in the Georgia Archives.
Look in the index of a Seaborn Goodall book, turn to the indexed page and
there you are.

Third, perhaps the most important, Mr. Goodall left no doubt as to the nature
of the court transaction. What was done? Who were the people? How were the
people related to each other?

Here is a typical gem from Seaborn Goodall:

28 November 1846 Meredith Poythress deeds to John S. Maner, for $ 700, all
his right in the estate of Susan Cooper, deceased, of South Carolina, to
which he is entitled in right of his wife, Susan R., late Susan R. Maner,
daughter of John Maner and his wife, formerly Ruth Stafford, who was the
sister of said Susan Cooper.
Screven County Deed Book R, pg. 69. Recorded by Seaborn Goodall.

Now just how much clearer could one be? I sincerely hope that Mr. Goodall's
children and his children's children all rose up and called him
blessed....for I certainly do.

Maynard		08/03/1997 8:59:09
No Freq Flyer PointsCharles NealMaynard (& Bud),

Unfortunately I cannot join you at the Poythress Reunion in Screven County;
no frequent flyer points available to me personally for a trip, plus tied
up with visiting relatives from Atlanta! Thanks for the invitation,
though. Sure would enjoy seeing you again, Maynard, and meeting you in
person, Bud. Maybe next year.

BPN 8/3/97		08/03/1997 9:33:46
Becoming a LawyerCharles NealKen,

I know that as recently as 1975, in Virginia one could become an attorney
without ever stepping foot into a lawschool because Virginia had a
time-honored tradition of letting one "read for the law." My understanding
of what was involved in that process is that one would get hooked up with a
practicing attorney, and would literally read every lawbook that atty had
in his law library. Then you could sit for the Bar exam (presumably after
being vouched for, in some way, or recommended perhaps, by that attorney).
If one then passed the Bar examination (which I think for that process
included an oral examination), then voila, one became an attorney. This
was all explained to me while we lived in Virginia by a dear friend of ours
(now departed for the heavenly courtrooms) who was intending to "read for
the law" before she got breast cancer.

Re the rest of your questions, I know nothing about connections to those
lines, and I'm working on too many things right now to let myself get
sidetracked in the Bollings. But I wish you best of luck in your search.

All for now.

BPN 8/3/97		08/03/1997 9:33:50
NEAT WEBSITEStarrHi Al,
Thought you and the list should see this posting from the WORSHAM list.
Congrats on a job well done! Linda

>X-Loop: WORSHAM-L@rootsweb.com
>Resent-Sender: WORSHAM-L-request@rootsweb.com
>
>Hello to the group. While looking through the different group lists
>available on rootsweb, I happened to check the POYTHRESS surname to see
>if a list was available. There was and there was also another web site
>you could click on that took me to some wonderful info for anyone that is
>looking for WORSHAM/EPES/HARDIMAN/WALL/WOODLIEF/POYTHRESS connections.
>That site is : http://www1.minn.net or get to it thru the POYTHRESS
>group list at rootsweb. It has some great info and you can spend hours
>there. Thought the group might like to know about it. It also mentions
>LITTLEBERRY. Have fun.
>Sheila
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		08/03/1997 10:56:14
Minor correctionAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

In my post re Peter Bolling query by Ken Poole I made the following
statement

"William was the youngest son of John Poythress and Mary (Batte) Poythress.

His wife Sarah was the daughter of Col. Frances Eppes. Both William and
Mary are buried in the Blandford Church Cemetery."

I should have said that "Both William and Sarah are buried ..." -- not
Mary. My apologies.

By the way, I see no reference to a Peter Bolling in the Bristol Parish
Vestry Book & Register. If this Peter Bolling had been connected to Robert
Bolling we might expect to see him listed. Obviously, there are lots of
explanations why the Bristol register might not list him, but because all
of the others mentioned in Ken's post are connected with the parish it
seems reasonable to start with this resource. I think there are even more
mentions of the Bolling family in the Bristol Parish Vestry Book & Register
than there are Poythress mentions. Both families are extensively
represented.

Best,

Al Tims

08/03/1997 11:49:40
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #74This is for Linda Starr
and anyone else trying to straighten out the Bolling Clark mess: I have a
copy of the will of BOLLING CLARK of Dinwiddie County, Va
These are the names mentioned in the will DO NOT include a single person
named Clark, which ought to tell us something, if only that he outlived all
the Clarks in his immediate family. He was said to be in his nineties? when
he died in 1809.

The Names and designations:
PETER PRIDE, my son in law
ANN ALLEN, my granddaughter

*MARY BURNETT, my granddaughter (this is Mary Baugh who m. TALIAFERRO
BURNETT; my line)
BOLLING C. BURNETT, my great grandson
*TALIAFERRO BURNETT, my grandson in law

ABRAM NORTH, my grandson in law
RICHARD ALLEN, my grandson in law
JESSE CLARK, son of my brother JOHN CLARK, deceased

ELIZABETH NORTH, my granddaughter
BOLLING C. NORTH, my great grandson
JAMES BAUGH, my grandson
JOHN BAUGH, my grandson
SUSANNA BEASLEY, my granddaughter
NANCY HOGH, my granddaughter.

WITNESSESS: Herbert Reese, Amy R. Featherson, Bartley Wicks, Alexander
Atkins, Jordan Reese and Spencer Howell.

This seems to say that Bolling CLark had no sons, does it not? Or they had
died without marrying, or their widows had married again?

IN MONROE COUNTY MS. PROBATE CT. Jan Term 1861

A PETITION brought by the Atkinsons claiming the Burnetts had sold some
slaves for below the cost they should have gotten and that they had no notice
of the sale.
The petition was brought against the estate of *MARY BAUGH BURNETT and her
three sons: BOLLING C. BURNETT, the children of RICHARD BURNETT, and the 5
children of the deceased *JOSEPH BOLLING BURNETT: *WW BURNETT, JOHN J.
BURNETT both of Williamson County Tenn. and JAMES T. BURNETT of Dallas
County, Alabama; ELIZABETH A., wife of Richard F. Dodson and Emily J. wife of
William Atkinson all of Monroe Co., Ms.

" Four yoears have elapsed since the sale and the estate has not debts. The
money could have been put out at 10%. Petitioners pray that they be paidtheir
1/15th sshare of the estate with 10% interest per annum since the 9 of May
1857, the interest to be compounded annuyally. B.G. Burnett sonof Bolling C.
Burnett is considered to be a suitable person to supervise the division of
the estate." Printed in the SOUTHSIDE VIRGINIAN, Vol 7, 1989. by L.H. Hart.

Since there was interest in Bolling Clark, I thought I'd put this in. It
is supports the fact that the Burnett line married into the Clark line (via
the marriage of Mary Baugh, daughter of Daniel Baugh and Miss Clark
(Bolling's daughter, who must have predeceased him.) to Taliaferro Burnett.
His son Joseph Bolling Burnett was the father of William Wiltshire
Burnett....both are mentioned in the petition.

It also proves to whoever said Bolling Clark had no daughters, that THIS
one did. I think it must have been the same person who told me Bolling Clark
was the son of Christopher Clark and Penelope Bolling (which Linda correctly
informed me is not true.)

Thanks for the help. I hope this helps someone else. EXCUSE ME POYTHRESSES
if this is too much off the subject, but I see these families intertwine a
lot, don't they?

Caroline Burnett Cook		08/04/1997 2:21:31
Re: Early marriageKen PooleAlberet, read what you sent me again. You speak of good authority, but go
on to quote to me a statement that they don't know who he stayed with when
he came here.

In fact, this appears to be bottleneck. So far I can find only one original
source for this, and you did not mention him. Albert you are saying we
ought to document, yet, everything you just said in this lacks
documentation. Let's all go back to the basics.

Old don't mean documented, fancy don't mean documented, many people
repeating an undocumented source does not docucment that source. Ken

At 12:38 AM 8/5/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Poythress List,
>
>Re: Ken Poole's query:
>> I am looking for information that shows that Robert Bolling married to
>Jane
>> Rolfe. I am trying to document. Ken
>
>There may be better sources, but I do have the following from an article
>titled "The Ancestors and Descendants of John Rolfe With Notices of Some
>Connected Families" published by GPC as part of the "Genealogies of
>Virginia Families" series based on articles originally appearing in the
>Virginia Magazine of History and Biography. The passage cited below is
>from an article by W. G. Stanard on "Bolling of Virginia", VA Mag of
>History and Biography, Vol. 22, 1914, pp. 217-218.
>
>I pick this up with Robert Bolling's memorial. You'll see below what
>appears to be good authority for the Jane Rolfe - Robert Bolling marriage.
>I think many of you might enjoy this account. Hope it helps. Of course,
>we still don't have proof that Jane Rolfe's mother was Jane Poythress.
>Best,
>Al Tims
>
>"Here lyeth interred in hope of a joyful resurrection, the body of Robert
>Bolling, the son of John and Mary Bolling, of Allhallows, Barkin Parish,
>Tower Street, London. He was born the 26th of December in the year 1646,
>and came to Virginia October the 2d, 1660, and departed this life the 17th
>day of July, 1709, agffd sixty-two years, six rronths and twenty-one days."
>As these dates show, Robert Bolling was only fourteen years of age when he
>came to the colony and was doubtless, in the care of some friend. In early
>manhood he engaged in trade as a merchant, and the firm of "Robert Bolling
>and Company" is referred to in the records of several counties, showing
>that their business was extensive. He was also a planter and acquired
>large-tracts of land. His residence was in Charles City County, on the
>south side of James River in what is now Prince George County. The name of
>the plantation where he lived,"Kippax," did not probably originate with
>him, as he had, so far as is known, no reason for giving the name.
>The first public office which he held was, doubtless, that of justice of
>Charles City County, and he was sheriff of that county in 1692 and 1699
>(Va. Mag. Hist. and Biog. I, 234). In 1702 he was still a justice. He
>was member of the House of Burgesses for Charles City at the sessions of
>April 1688, April 1692, and April 1699 and for Prince George, April 1704
>(Va. Mag. Hist. and Biog. XV, 332, 438, 411, and Colonial Va.
>Register). In 1705 he is styled, in a land patent, "Col. Robert Bolling,"
>which indicates that he was then Colonel of the Prince George militia.
>Col. Bolling probably acquired much land by purchase, as his grants were
>not extensive. There is on record in Henrico County a deed dated March
>1700-1701, from Stephen Cocke to Robert Bolling, merchant, of Bristol
>parish, Charles City Co., conveying 240 acres north of the Appomattox
>River, part of a plantation called Old Town. His grants comprised about
>1760 acres in Bristol Parish, 50 acres in Henrico Co., and 1973 acres in
>Prince George on Moccasoneck Creek and Nottoway River. The last grant,
>dated May 6, 1706 was to "Collo. Robert Bolling." His first grant was in
>1682 to "Robert Bolling, Gent."
>There is in the Virginia State Library an old volume of the laws of
>Virginia known as "Purvise's Collection," which once belonged to Robert. A
>fly leaf contains an entry which gives the dates of his birth and arrival
>in Virginia as they appear on his tomb, and continues,
>
>"& in the year 75 married Jane the daughter of Thomas Rolfe, gent., by whom
>he had one son, John Bolling, Born ye 26th day of jan'y 1676. She dying
>[in 1676-Bolling Memoirs] he married a second venture Anne ye daughter of
>Major John Stith in ye year 1681, by whom he hath Robt ]selling born Jan ye
>25th 1686, ditto Stith Bolling Borne March ye 28th 1686, ditto Edward
>Bolling borne ye first day of October 1687, ditto Ann Bolling borne ye 22d
>of July 1690, ditto Drury Bolling borne ye 21st day of June 1695, ditto
>Thomas Bolling borne ye 30th day of March 1697-8, & Agnes Bolling borne ye
>30th November 1700, and that god almighty may bless these blessings shall
>be the contnuall prayer of their father Robt Bolling."
>
>--------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>		08/04/1997 3:41:47
Surname Registration-Genweb StatesCharles NealRe Maynard's:
>You think it would be a good idea to go to each of the states where P's
>were known to be lurking at one time or another and link us in to the
> individual states as surname contacts ?

We have a List-master par excellence in Al as things currently stand. And
thanks to the number of hours Al & others are devoting to serious research,
we are indeed making some progress.

Such listings in other states COULD lead to finding additional people
interested in such serious pursuits.

HOWEVER, the more places we are listed the greater the risk that we may
get a flood of messages from a number of the "quick-fix" folks who, way
back in their family tree hooked into one Poythress & who may think that by
asking here regarding the "unique" name in their tree, they can (more
easily than researching their own main John Doe line) get the entire
Poythress lineage for that one Poythress-ancestor handed to them on a
silver platter.

I feel that you, Al, should be the one to determine how many places you are
up-to-it, to handle messages from, with your level of detail paid to what
is already going on -- which we all GREATLY appreciate.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/4/97		08/04/1997 4:20:58
Pharmaceutical Poythress familyCharles NealRe: Jean Poythress Spille's statement that
>The Ben Poythress that Barbara Neal visted in Petersburg is of the pharm.
>family.

Correction: No, Ben Poythress who currently lives in Petersburg is NOT of
the Poythress family that had the pharmaceutical companyt named Poythress.
He has, thru the years, stayed pretty close to home in Petersburg, & has
never gotten to know other Poythress families in the Petersburg area, or
Hopewell area, or Richmond area.

Ben is my first cousin one generation removed (i.e. he & my Dad were first
cousins). Ben moved to Petersburg sometime after May of 1955 thanks to a
transfer with the company for which he was in management -- Sears Roebuck,
I believe it was. Ben was born & raised in the Meridian, Mississippi area,
& he is a grandson of Algernon Edward Poythress (who was born in
Mecklenburg Co, VA & who moved to Sumter Co, AL at age 9, & who died in the
Meridian, MS area).

All for now.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/4/97		08/04/1997 4:21:01
Re: Surname Registration-Genweb StatesMarion & Helene PockrusHear Hear to Barbara's statement!
Helene POCKRUS ( the otherunique name)

----------
> From: Charles Neal
> To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Surname Registration-Genweb States
> Date: Monday, August 04, 1997 4:20 PM
>
> Re Maynard's:
> >You think it would be a good idea to go to each of the states where P's
> >were known to be lurking at one time or another and link us in to the
> > individual states as surname contacts ?
>
> We have a List-master par excellence in Al as things currently stand.
And
> thanks to the number of hours Al & others are devoting to serious
research,
> we are indeed making some progress.
>
> Such listings in other states COULD lead to finding additional people
> interested in such serious pursuits.
>
> HOWEVER, the more places we are listed the greater the risk that we may
> get a flood of messages from a number of the "quick-fix" folks who, way
> back in their family tree hooked into one Poythress & who may think that
by
> asking here regarding the "unique" name in their tree, they can (more
> easily than researching their own main John Doe line) get the entire
> Poythress lineage for that one Poythress-ancestor handed to them on a
> silver platter.
>
> I feel that you, Al, should be the one to determine how many places you
are
> up-to-it, to handle messages from, with your level of detail paid to what
> is already going on -- which we all GREATLY appreciate.
>
> BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/4/97		08/04/1997 5:00:52
Early marriageKen PooleI am looking for information that shows that Robert Bolling married to Jane
Rolfe. I am trying to document. Ken

08/04/1997 5:36:12
Re: Surname Registration-Genweb StatesI don't have a bit of problem with that approach, Barb, good thinking. Your
ball, Al.

MP

08/04/1997 8:03:35
GA questionCharles NealMaynard & Bud especially,

I am having brain failure & cannot recall whether or not Wilkes Co, GA is
one of the areas where we have previously found Poythress folks; can you
refresh my memory?

The reason I ask is that I saw a review of a marvelous new (1996) work, 962
pp, abstracting the first 22 deed books of Wilkes Co, GA covering
1784-1806, which certainly falls in the timespan of interest these days.
In that time, Wilkes was huge and encompassed much more than now. The book
is by Michal Martin Farmer of Dallas, TX, and I saw it reviewed in the
first '97 issue of The Virginia Genealogist.

Thanks for any help you can offer on this.

BPN 8/4/97		08/04/1997 9:04:36
Quick UpdatesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

1. We've added Carol Morrison's latest deed transcriptions to our web
page. These include the deed from Thomas Poythress to William Rives in
1773 and Meredith Poythress to John Morris in 1783. Interestingly, in the
1783 deed from Meredith Poythress to John Morris we have Meredith listed as
being of Brunswick Co. In his 1786 deed to William Cleaton we have
Meredith listed as being of Mecklenburg Co. You'll find these on the land
and court records page. BTW, I'm going to redesign this page because the
number of transactions we're listing and hope to be listing makes the
current format cumbersome -- I think.

2. I've added a group sheet for the descendants of John Bolling (father of
Robert Bolling who married Jane Rolfe). This was given to me by William
Morgan of Orlando. I do not make any claim about the accuracy of this
work. I don't see a Peter Bolling mentioned :-). It is linked to our
allied family page. The direct link to the group sheet is:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/bolling.html

Best,

Al Tims		08/04/1997 9:06:09
DocumentationKen PooleThe Memoirs is known as a French Device, likely created about 1803 or so as
a means to protect Bolling property. A French Device was a means to
establish a court record more to the Crown's liking. It came about because
the British were about to take Virginia, and all the rest, back, and the
writer of the Memoirs felt the British would prevail, which they did in
fact do.

The Memoirs has a 25 year old speak of his 27 year old brother as "The Old
Indian", and even got his own and, his brothers birthdates wrong. Who ever
wrote that thing, didn't even know Mary Jefferson's name. Their is no
documentation in the form of the Memoirs. It was even said to have been
translated by a child.

Let us define documentation as "other than" a work of fiction to our
liking. Ken		08/04/1997 9:34:57
Re: Quick UpdatesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

In my previous post re land transaction of Meredith Poythress and John
Morris. I listed it as Meredith P. selling the land when obviously it was
the other way around. Sorry about that.

Best,
Al Tims

08/04/1997 9:39:53
Re: Pharmaceutical Poythress familyIn my trusty PDR, I found the following:

Poythress Laboratories, Inc
16 N. 22nd Street
Post Office Box 26946
Richmond, VA 23261

with 12 prescription products.....

My $ .02 🙂

Alice Dixon		08/04/1997 9:56:56
Fw: [D-S] BASSMarion & Helene PockrusLea Dowd:
Can't find your address so will send this through the Poythress board-sorry
guys-
Helene
----------
> From: Barbara B. Waters
> To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> Subject: [D-S] BASS
> Date: Monday, August 04, 1997 8:48 AM
>
> I am not researching this family.
>
> >From "Gone to Georgia" by Wm. C. Stewart:
>
> BASS-Sampson B. BASS and William DELLAFIELD (the latter a Revolutionary
> soldier living in Garrard's district, Hall Co., in 1827) were witnesses
Aug.
> 17, 1810, when William STEWART sold his land on the Mulberry Fork of
Oconee
> in Jackson County. Nothinng more is known of BASS; was he by chance
names
> for Sampson County, NC? There Charles BASS in his 1786 will mentioned
his
> son Burwell, who was enumerated in Sampson Co. in 1790. Burwell, a
> Revolutionary soldier, was living in Jefferson Co., AL, in 1830. He was
> perhaps the Burwell enumerated 1820 in Hancock Co., GA, along with Edmund
and
> Larkin BASS. A Sion BASS was in Nash Co, NC, in 1790 and a man of that
name
> was enumerated 1820 in St. Clair Co., AL, where John BASS lived in 1828.
The
> family was found in 1820 in Clarke Co., AL, Oglethorpe (Christopher),
Warren
> and other GA counties. The family was in Bertie Pct, NC, as early as
1732.
>
> Barb
>
> ----------------------!!-------------------------
> TOPICS are now available on this list.
> SEE http://copper.ucs.indiana.edu/~stephenl/genealog.htm#topics		08/04/1997 10:20:19
Re: More Thomas & Meridith Poythress deed transcriptionsCharles NealCarol,

Sure do appreciate the abundant material you have been assisting us with!!
Your excellent work is so timely. I always look forward to reading what
you have made available. Keep up the great work.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/4/97		08/04/1997 10:51:30
Re: Forward: Jean Spille NotesCharles NealJean,

Sure do appreciate the succinct & helpful Northampton Co, NC info you made
available to us thru Al.

Keep in touch when work allows.
God Bless -

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/4/97		08/04/1997 10:51:33
Re: Early marriageAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: Ken Poole's query:
> I am looking for information that shows that Robert Bolling married to
Jane
> Rolfe. I am trying to document. Ken

There may be better sources, but I do have the following from an article
titled "The Ancestors and Descendants of John Rolfe With Notices of Some
Connected Families" published by GPC as part of the "Genealogies of
Virginia Families" series based on articles originally appearing in the
Virginia Magazine of History and Biography. The passage cited below is
from an article by W. G. Stanard on "Bolling of Virginia", VA Mag of
History and Biography, Vol. 22, 1914, pp. 217-218.

I pick this up with Robert Bolling's memorial. You'll see below what
appears to be good authority for the Jane Rolfe - Robert Bolling marriage.
I think many of you might enjoy this account. Hope it helps. Of course,
we still don't have proof that Jane Rolfe's mother was Jane Poythress.
Best,
Al Tims

"Here lyeth interred in hope of a joyful resurrection, the body of Robert
Bolling, the son of John and Mary Bolling, of Allhallows, Barkin Parish,
Tower Street, London. He was born the 26th of December in the year 1646,
and came to Virginia October the 2d, 1660, and departed this life the 17th
day of July, 1709, agffd sixty-two years, six rronths and twenty-one days."
As these dates show, Robert Bolling was only fourteen years of age when he
came to the colony and was doubtless, in the care of some friend. In early
manhood he engaged in trade as a merchant, and the firm of "Robert Bolling
and Company" is referred to in the records of several counties, showing
that their business was extensive. He was also a planter and acquired
large-tracts of land. His residence was in Charles City County, on the
south side of James River in what is now Prince George County. The name of
the plantation where he lived,"Kippax," did not probably originate with
him, as he had, so far as is known, no reason for giving the name.
The first public office which he held was, doubtless, that of justice of
Charles City County, and he was sheriff of that county in 1692 and 1699
(Va. Mag. Hist. and Biog. I, 234). In 1702 he was still a justice. He
was member of the House of Burgesses for Charles City at the sessions of
April 1688, April 1692, and April 1699 and for Prince George, April 1704
(Va. Mag. Hist. and Biog. XV, 332, 438, 411, and Colonial Va.
Register). In 1705 he is styled, in a land patent, "Col. Robert Bolling,"
which indicates that he was then Colonel of the Prince George militia.
Col. Bolling probably acquired much land by purchase, as his grants were
not extensive. There is on record in Henrico County a deed dated March
1700-1701, from Stephen Cocke to Robert Bolling, merchant, of Bristol
parish, Charles City Co., conveying 240 acres north of the Appomattox
River, part of a plantation called Old Town. His grants comprised about
1760 acres in Bristol Parish, 50 acres in Henrico Co., and 1973 acres in
Prince George on Moccasoneck Creek and Nottoway River. The last grant,
dated May 6, 1706 was to "Collo. Robert Bolling." His first grant was in
1682 to "Robert Bolling, Gent."
There is in the Virginia State Library an old volume of the laws of
Virginia known as "Purvise's Collection," which once belonged to Robert. A
fly leaf contains an entry which gives the dates of his birth and arrival
in Virginia as they appear on his tomb, and continues,

"& in the year 75 married Jane the daughter of Thomas Rolfe, gent., by whom
he had one son, John Bolling, Born ye 26th day of jan'y 1676. She dying
[in 1676-Bolling Memoirs] he married a second venture Anne ye daughter of
Major John Stith in ye year 1681, by whom he hath Robt ]selling born Jan ye
25th 1686, ditto Stith Bolling Borne March ye 28th 1686, ditto Edward
Bolling borne ye first day of October 1687, ditto Ann Bolling borne ye 22d
of July 1690, ditto Drury Bolling borne ye 21st day of June 1695, ditto
Thomas Bolling borne ye 30th day of March 1697-8, & Agnes Bolling borne ye
30th November 1700, and that god almighty may bless these blessings shall
be the contnuall prayer of their father Robt Bolling."

--------------------------		08/04/1997 11:38:06
Forward: Jean Spille NotesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Jean Spille sent us the following. She provides some great information
about Hopewell and about the Poythress records in North Carolina. Great
contributions!

Best,
Al Tims
-----------------
Re: Alice Dixon's note:

"Finally, I have something to add to the discussion group...When I
worked as a pharmaceutical rep in Richmond, I "knew" about a Poythress Drug

Company ...I always assumed that it was a very small production company,
but I
feel certain that it was located in Hopewell, VA......Some of the MDs that
I used to call on were on Poythress Avenue in Hopewell........ Small world
:)"

Alice Dixon
--------------
Poythress Drugs was definitely never in Hopewell. My family was the
only Poythress family in Hopewell from 1936 until 1981 when my father
died. He was a contractor and not in pharm. The Ben Poythress that
Barbara Neal visted in Petersburg is of the pharm. family. We knew
that there were Poythresses in Richmond, but didn't know them or how
we were related.

The street in Hopewell is Poythress Street because it is on what used
to be Poythress lands.

Now that I am on digest I am not sure how to make a post so could you
pass along this information for me.
- ------------------------------

It is difficult for me to attend to the discussion of land deeds in
Northampton , but from some information my friend in Northampton sent
last spring, I find the following notes. Maybe you can draw some
connections. Also, I have collected land records from the NC/SC roots
lists that have VA connections. Some one may be able to draw some
connections from those. Anyway here is what my friend wrote.

Early Poythress deeds in Northampton
1755 Wm. Portis wit deed

Early Poythress Estate records in Northampton
1758 Wm. Portis - John Williams of Bertie
1765 Wm. Portis - John Hill of Bertie
1787 Hardimon Poythress - James Sexton
1789 Odam Poythress - James Sexton
1789 Hardiman Poythress - Ransford Flowers
1791 Hardiman Poythress - Isham Johnson
1779 Odum & Sele Poythress land sale 50 acres to Robert Crittdon (I
have a copy of this)

from Colonial Rev. War Records

Col. W.L. Davidson's Co. 1770
left at hospital
Hardy Portriss
Bertie Co. Men

Order Book of Sgt. Issax Rowell
10th reg
Hardy Portis
Lewis Portis

Pay Accoutns
Hardman Portoise
3rd Reg.
Eatons Reg.

1829 District #2
Lands of John Portress Sherrif Sale 95 acres to William Moody

Lands of James Portress
Sheriff Sale 95 acres to William Moody.
( I have copies of these 2 but I can't read them. I will be glad to
send you copies if you would like to attempt to read them)

Jean Spille		08/04/1997 11:38:31
Re: Poythress/Related FamiliesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re; Ken Poole Posts

Ken, I'll likely miss some of your items. I believe most of the parish
registers have been microfilmed by the LDS and can be loaned to your local
FHC. Helene Pockrus can probably help you with specific vestry
book/register questions. I ordered my Bristol vestry book through Craig
Scott (see link on Poythress web to his Willow Bend Internet Bookstore).

On the "ugly" Bolling materials. I seem to recall an extensive discussion
of this on the VA-Roots list some time ago. The archives for VA-Roots
might offer some insights -- although you may have monitored those
exchanges. I have Pocahontas' Descendants by Brown, Myers & Chappel
(1994), which is represented as a revision, enlargement and extension of
the list as set out by Wyndham Robertson. Unfortunately, I don't know
enough about the Bolling lines to know if it does a better job of filling
the branches of the tree. Perhaps you know.

I know nothing of the Whiting family -- I'm still back on Peter Bolling and
sorting through some of the earlier questions you've asked about the
Poythress :-).

I want to be responsive, but I can't keep pace with your queries right now.
I hope others on the list might be able to help with some of your
interests.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Ken Poole
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Poythress/Related Families
> Date: Saturday, August 02, 1997 9:29 PM
>
> Can anyone tell me about the Whiting family? Did they intermarry with the
> Beverely and or Wilson? Ken		08/04/1997 12:25:20
More Thomas & Meridith Poythress deed transcriptionsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison has done it again!

She has transcribed the following for us. I will add these to the web page
in short order.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------

One is a deed of 50 acres to Meredith Poythress from John Morris

Another is the Deed from Thomas Poythress of Martin's Brandon Parish,
PG, recorded in Deed Book 13, page 1, Brunswick County.

BTW, the tract of land that Maynard refers to in the timeline that
shows up on the tax records for Thomas Poythress and then by the tax
records shows was transferred to William Warwick, . . .

Well, later (on September 30, 1783) William Warwick conveys the same to
Thomas Claiborne (as a mortgage). The mortgage indicates that it was
two tracts consisting of 514 acres what was purchased by him of Thomas
Poythress and that the tracts what is/was known by the name of "Randles
Ordinary." This mortgage was recorded in Will Book 2, page 238,
Brunswick County and proved on April 26, 1784.

Thought these might be of interest to your group.

Carol		08/04/1997 12:31:30
John Morris & Meredith PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

If you study Maynard's timeline for Thomas Poythress you'll find:

22 Aug 1782 John Morris & Elizabeth Edwards, dau. Thomas Edwards, deceased.
Surety Meredith P. makes affidavit that Elizabeth Edwards lives at the home
of his father Thomas Poythress and is 23 years of age. Knorr’s Brunswick
Marr. pp 66.

Might this be the same John Morris we see in the deed Carol Morrison just
sent our way:

John Morris of Brunswick County to Meridith Poythress 22 September 1783
Order Book 2, page 506-507, Brunswick County, Virginia, 50 acres.

Maynard -- Do you have the full transcription of the 22 Aug 1782 affidavit?

Best,

Al Tims		08/05/1997 2:34:20
Military Record of L. Y. PoythressCraig R. ScottFound among the microfilm of the National Archives in M324, Compiled Service
Records of Confederate Soldiers Who Served in Organizations From the State
of Virginia.

L. Y. Poythress
Private Captain E [dward] P[egram] Scott's Co. A, Greenville Home Guards
age 45
enlisted July 1863 at Hicksford by Scott for war
present on a roll dated 9 September 1864
Exempt on account of being very lame in one leg

The previous record of the military service of Thomas M. Poythress came from
the same microfilm.

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		08/05/1997 3:14:18
Leg WorkKen PooleI want to thank Carol also. I'm new here, but I know the data which gets on
here comes from someone doing the leg work. I have a son-in-law in VA
Beach, and we get up there whenever we can, and try to get into
Chesterfield or whereever. Problem is, you have to have some idea of what
to look for, which is more leg work.

I have picked up a lot of Poythress information, some of which disagrees.
Can someone tell me if Poynter is Poythress. Susan married Wm Hancock, born
early 1600s.

Anyone have Archer/Poythress infoprmation? Ken		08/05/1997 3:53:07
Re: Military Record of L. Y. PoythressGotta be your boy, Lyn, don't you think?

08/05/1997 4:54:06
Re: GA QuestionBarbara P. Neal

>In reference to your question concerning Wilkes County, GA?<

I find no listings of any Poythresses being located/listed as being in Wilkes
County.

Sems a little strange too since Wilkes County isn't that far from Burke and
Screven counties, and Wilkes was great farming country, especially cotton in
the early days.

Sorry can't be of more help.

Take care,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com)

08/05/1997 7:16:51
Re: GA questionStarrCharles and POYTHRESS list,
I have the Farmer book in my personal library that Charles mentions. I
previously recorded all POYTHRESSes my the Wilkes Co. tax records from
Hudson's masterful work; did I not include references from Farmer's book
or have I forgotten to follow up on a promise?

From the index to Farmer's book: I find George POYTHRESS as witness of
"Rec. of Nathaniel DURKEE of Wash. GA (CH of Wilkes Co. is located in
"city" of Washington) 31 AUG 1791 L50 in full for a negro woman called
Judeh, about 30 years old, 31 AUG 1791. (signed) Wm F. Mann. I assign all
my interest to James ARMSTRONG of within mentioned negro wench for value of
him rec. 3 SEP 1791 (signed) N. Durkee. Wit: George POYTHRESS. Receipt
proved by George Poythress 8 SEP 1791, H. Mounger, J.P. "
This is found Deed Book GG, 1790-1793, page 313.

Same book, page 331: "William Sansom to Nathaniel Durkee, a negro fellow
named Jim, about 20 years old, for L65 Washington GA 1 SEP 1791. (signed)
Wm. Sansom. wit: F. Sims. Proved by Frederick Simms, 22 SEP 1791. H.
Mounger. J.P. Sansom signed right of bill of sale to James Armstrong 3 SEP
1791. (signed) N. Durkee. Wit: Geo POYTHRESS. Assignment proved 3 SEP 1791,
H. Mounger JP. Rec. bill of sale of Nathaniel Durkee for Jim, also a negro
wench named Judy purchased of Capt. MANN. (signed) James Armstrong. Rec. 10
SEP 1791 from N. Durkee L1000 for Jim & Judah. (signed) James Armstrong.
wit: Jno WALLACE Jr. Proved by Jno Wallace 14 SEP 1791. Regd 23 SEP"

Looking thru the "P" index: Jessey POATERS
Book DD, page 25: John Morgain bound to Richard Melear, both of Wilkes ...
wit: Jessey (J) POATERS, Wm Hammett JP.

[The dau of this Richard Melear married a STARR so I have some things on
him, but probably NOT where he came from in VA.]

I don't see anything else from the index that jumps out at me as a
corruption of POYTHRESS -- but then I pronounce it with an OK accent.

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		08/05/1997 8:49:14
Re: DocumentationAlbert R. TimsKen,

All I said, I believe, is that the Robert Bolling original document
"Purvise's Collection" does exist in the Virginia State Library and can be
evaluated for validity. If you have evidence that this too is a work of
"fiction" then that would be interesting and important. Again, this is the
original source document that seems important to your original query.

Best,

Al Tims

08/05/1997 9:00:12
The Brunswick ConnectionCarol,
Many thanks for your great contributions which are filling in more and more
of our knowledge of Thomas et al in VA.
Sincerely, Barbara (BPW)

08/05/1997 10:05:39
Re: GA questionCharles NealLinda,

Thank you for the look-up.
I know our mailing label says "Charles" but I'm really "Barbara" or BPN;
computers don't know everything.
😉
Thanks again,
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/5		08/05/1997 10:27:30
Re: GA QuestionCharles NealBud,

Thanks for your input.

Ay,
BPN

08/05/1997 10:27:33
Re: GA questionLinda to the rescue. I knew I remembered at least one of those recordings of
"our George" in Wilkes. Thanks, Linda.

Maynard

08/05/1997 11:33:54
Re: Early marriageAlbert R. TimsKen & Poythress List,

Re Ken Poole's comment:

> Alberet, read what you sent me again. You speak of good authority, but go
> on to quote to me a statement that they don't know who he stayed with
when
> he came here.
>
> In fact, this appears to be bottleneck. So far I can find only one
original
> source for this, and you did not mention him. Albert you are saying we
> ought to document, yet, everything you just said in this lacks
> documentation. Let's all go back to the basics.
>
> Old don't mean documented, fancy don't mean documented, many people
> repeating an undocumented source does not docucment that source. Ken

My response:

Ken, if you look at the article again, you'll see that the authority is not
the Stanard article itself, but the source Stanard uses as documentation.
I believe you can confirm that this original document in Purvise's
Collection does exist in the Virginia State Library. For 17th century
records, this would be a real treasure -- especially since it is confirmed
by the Bolling Memoirs -- also mentioned. I don't believe you asked "who
he stayed with" but "what evidence exists that he married Jane Rolfe."

Immediately below is the relevant passage of the material I provided
earlier. I would consider this "quotation" a solid primary source. I'm not
a registered genealogist, but I am a university professor and I can tell
you that such a primary source document would be considered good authority
in academic circles. The archives at the VSL may have information on the
validity of this record. I agree that it would be great to have a vestry
book entry, will, etc. Perhaps such documents exist and I simply don't
know about it. If I find further documentation I'll let you know.

Best,
Al Tims

Here is the relevant reference to the source documentation:

.... in the Virginia State Library an old volume of the laws of
> >Virginia known as "Purvise's Collection," which once belonged to Robert.
A
> >fly leaf contains an entry which gives the dates of his birth and
arrival
> >in Virginia as they appear on his tomb, and continues,

[Below is the documentation I would consider a primary source]

> >"& in the year 75 married Jane the daughter of Thomas Rolfe, gent., by
whom
> >he had one son, John Bolling, Born ye 26th day of jan'y 1676. She dying
> >[in 1676-Bolling Memoirs] he married a second venture Anne ye daughter
of
> >Major John Stith in ye year 1681, by whom he hath Robt born Jan ye
> >25th 1686, ditto Stith Bolling Borne March ye 28th 1686, ditto Edward
> >Bolling borne ye first day of October 1687, ditto Ann Bolling borne ye
22d
> >of July 1690, ditto Drury Bolling borne ye 21st day of June 1695, ditto
> >Thomas Bolling borne ye 30th day of March 1697-8, & Agnes Bolling borne
ye
> >30th November 1700, and that god almighty may bless these blessings
shall
> >be the contnuall prayer of their father Robt Bolling."		08/05/1997 11:37:28
Richard Randolph & Deed mention of Jane RolfeAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

This is the last scrap of information I have on the issue of Jane Rolfe's
marriage to Robert Bolling. Up front, I will say that (1) I do not know
anything about the "Southern Literary Messenger" or (2) the validity of the
deed Richard Randolph is said to have communicated.

Best,
Al Tims

From "The Ancestors and Descendants of John Rolfe" VA Magazine of History
and Biography, p. 205.

Among the James City records (now destroyed) was the following deed,
communicated to the "Southern Literary Messenger" by the once well-known
Virginia antiquary, Richard Randolph:

"This Indenture made 1st October 1698 between John Bolling of the County of
Henrico and parish of Varina, Gent, son and heir of Jane late wife fo
Robert Bolling, of Charles City County, Gent, which Jane was the only child
of Thoms Rolfe, dec'd, conveying to William Brown, of the parish of
Wilmington, in the County of James City, one thousand acres of land
commonly called the Fort of Chickahonimy River, as per patent granted to
Thomas Rolfe (this was Fort Chickahonimy granted him in 1646)."		08/05/1997 11:42:08
Fw:Lea DoddMarion & Helene PockrusFor Lea-Can't reach you so will send it through the P board. I get yours
back like this alot.
Helene

----------
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> Date: Wednesday, August 06, 1997 12:47 PM
>
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>		08/06/1997 1:24:03
MORRISLea L. DowdWhile y'all are discussing the MORRISes, if you happen across any of these,
I would appreciate knowing about them.

Thanks,
Lea
lea@gnat.net

Descendants of Thomas Morris

Generation No. 1

1. Thomas1 Morris died ca 1772 in Brunswick Co., VA. He married Boyce.

More About Thomas Morris:
: 1772, Will dated

Children of Thomas Morris and Boyce are:
+ 2 i. Boyce2 Morris.
3 ii. Chisholm Morris.
4 iii. Henry Morris. He married Phoebe Claud 12 Dec 1782 in Southampton
Co., VA.
+ 5 iv. Bathia Morris.
+ 6 v. Sukey Morris.
+ 7 vi. Sarah Morris.
8 vii. Jabez Morris.
+ 9 viii. Agnis Morris.

Generation No. 2

2. Boyce2 Morris (Thomas1). She married William Rives, son of Thomas
Rives.

More About William Rives:
: 1772, Suit against Drury Bass in Brunswick Co.

Children of Boyce Morris and William Rives are:
10 i. Winifred3 Rives, born ca 1765. She married James Hinton 16 Dec 1786
in Greensville Co., VA.
11 ii. Sarah Rives, born ca 1768. She married William Collier 10 Jan 1789
in Greensville Co., VA.
12 iii. John Rives, born ca 1770. He married Mourning Perry 28 Nov 1799
in Greenville Co., VA.
13 iv. William Dymer Rives, born ca 1772. He married Lucy Jeter 25 Feb
1803 in Greenville Co., VA.

5. Bathia2 Morris (Thomas1). She married John Brewer.

Child of Bathia Morris and John Brewer is:
14 i. Ann3 Brewer.

6. Sukey2 Morris (Thomas1). She married ? Eppes.

More About Sukey Morris:
: 1781, Left property by James Lundy

Child of Sukey Morris and ? Eppes is:
15 i. Thomas3 Eppes.

7. Sarah2 Morris (Thomas1). She married ? Davis.

Child of Sarah Morris and ? Davis is:
16 i. Rebecca3 Davis.

9. Agnis2 Morris (Thomas1). She married (1) Samuel Alsobrook III Bef.
1735, son of Samuel Alsobrook and Joan Howell. She married (2) Arthur Bass
Bef. 07 Sep 1759, son of Charles Bass , Jr..

More About Samuel Alsobrook III:
: 21 Apr 1758, Inventory of estate by James Wyche, Joseph Thorpe & Major
Tiller

More About Arthur Bass:
: 1797, Sold land to Lewis Thorpe in Sussex Co., VA
: 1767, Arthur Bass of Brunswick to Thos. Moniss
: May 1793, Grantor Greensville Co., VA
: 09 Jun 1768, Thomas Peete vs Arthur Bass, deft no inhabitant of
Southampton
: 1782, Census 9 whites & 3 blacks Sussex Co., VA
: 16 Aug 1764, Inv estate of John Rawlings, Jr.; Joseph Tharp, Major
Tiller, Arthur Bass
: 1790, Census w/9 in family; Sussex Co.

Children of Agnis Morris and Samuel Alsobrook are:
17 i. John3 Alsobrook, born Aft. 1735.

More About John Alsobrook:
: Aug 1758, Thomas Morris guardian; Major Tillor Sec.

18 ii. Mary Alsobrook, born Aft. 1735.

More About Mary Alsobrook:
: Aug 1758, Thomas Morris guardian; Major Tillor Sec.

19 iii. Elizabeth Alsobrook, born Aft. 1735.

More About Elizabeth Alsobrook:
: Aug 1758, Thomas Morris guardian; Major Tillor Sec.

Children of Agnis Morris and Arthur Bass are:
20 i. Creasy3 Bass.

More About Creasy Bass:
: 1781, Left property by James Lundy

21 ii. Thomas Bass. He POSSIBLY married Sarah English 1788 in Southampton
Co., VA.		08/06/1997 1:25:40
Re: MORRISLea....in case you didn't see this one the other day:

22 Aug 1782 John Morris & Elizabeth Edwards, dau. Thomas Edwards, deceased.
Surety Meredith Poythress makes affidavit that Elizabeth Edwards lives at the
home of his father Thomas Poythress and is 23 years of age.

All we have is the above abstract from Knorr's Brunswick Marriages, if nobody
is able to come up with the full text, I'll look for it next trip to LVA.

Maynard		08/06/1997 2:52:33
Re: Leg WorkStarrKen asked:

>Can someone tell me if Poynter is Poythress. Susan married Wm Hancock, born
>early 1600s.

IF it is, then there's more people for you in Wilkes Co. GA. I'll
forward this question to a POYNER researcher who is trying to decide if
Poyner and Pointer / Painter are the same. I doubt she'll want to include
POYTHRESS to her list of possibilities, but one never knows. The Wilkes
Co. GA POYNERs/POYNORs come out of Caswell Co. NC if that helps -- at least
some of them do. Ken, this same researcher is dealing with TRAYLORs -- the
Poyners I believe have dealings with OGLETREEs which come out of Hanover
Co. VA to NC to Wilkes Co. GA. And the given name "Amelia" is found in the
POYNOR line as in my STARR line which is how Marla and I got together in
the first place.

Do any of THOSE surnames ring a bell with any of you POYTHRESS people?
My best guess is, the two surnames are not connected, but that's a guess.
Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		08/06/1997 3:44:48
Re: MORRISAlbert R. TimsLea,

The Morris information is very interesting and helpful. I'm particularly
interested in the William Rives connection because of the deed (below)
showing Thomas Poythress selling 275 acres to a William Rives in 1773.

Is it possible that we have two William Rives? Your record shows a William
Rives as the son of Thomas Rives. The deed below shows a William Rives as
the son of Benjamin Rives.
.Best,
Al Tims

> 2. Boyce2 Morris (Thomas1). She married William Rives, son of Thomas
Rives.

This Indenture made this thirteenth Day of May One Thousand Seven Hundred
and seventy three Between Thomas Poythress of Martin's Brandon Parish in
Prince George County of the one part and William Rives Son of George Rives
deceased in Meherrin Parish and the County of Brunswick of the other Part
Witnesseth that the said Thomas Poythress for and in Consideration of the
Sum of One Hundred and fifty Pounds Current Money of Virginia to him in
hand paid by the said William Rives the receipt whereof he doth hereby
acknowledge hath granted Bargained and Sold Alien'd and Confirmed and by
these Presents doth Grant Bargain and Sell Alien and Confirm unto the said
William Rives his Heirs and Assigns forever one Tract or parcel of Land
situate lying and being in the said Parish of Maherrin and aforesaid County
of Brunswick adjoining the Lands of Benjamin Rives and Richard Woodroof
lying upon the Beaver pond Creek containing two hundred and seventy five
Acres be the same more or less with all and singular its appurtenances
thereunto belonging and also the Reversion and Reversions Remainder and
Remainders thereof and all the Estate right Title Claim Interest and Demand
whatsoever of him the said Thomas Poythress of in and to the said Two
hundred and seventy five Acres of Land and every part and parcel thereof To
have and to hold the said Two Hundred and seventy five Acres of Land be the
same more or less with all the appurtenances thereunto belonging unto the
said William Rives his Heirs and Assigns forever And the said Thomas
Poythress for himself and his Heirs the said Two hundred and Seventy five
Acres of Land with its Appurtenances against him and his Heirs and against
all and every other person and persons whatsoever to the said William Rives
his Heirs and Assigns shall and will Warrant and forever defend by these
Presents In Witness whereof the said Thomas Poythress hath hereunto set his
hand and affixed his Seal the Day and Year above Written.
Signed Sealed and Delivered                          Thos. Poythress (L.S.)
in presence of
James Young
William Rives
Benjamin Rives

At a Court held for Brunswick County the 22d Day of November 1773.  This
Indenture was partly proved by the Oaths of James Young and William Rives
two of the Witnesses thereto.
                                                                         
Test
                                                                           
  Peter Pelham Jr. Ct. Cur.

Deed Book 13, page 1, Brunswick County, Virginia.

Patent transcription courtesy of Carol Morrision		08/06/1997 6:24:46
John Morris/Meredith Sr.22 Aug 1782 John Morris & Elizabeth Edwards, dau. Thomas Edwards. Surety
Meredith Poythress makes affidavit that Elizabeth Edwards lives at the home
of his father Thomas Poythress and is 23 years of age. Knorr's Brunswick
Marriages, p. 66

Al: "might this be the same John Morris we see in the deed Carol Morrison
just sent our way" : John Morris of Brunswick County to Meredith Poythress 22
Sept 1783,
Order book 2, pgs. 506-507, Bruns. Co., 50 acres"

"Maynard...do you have the full transcription of the 22 Aug 1782 affidavit?"

Maynard: no, I don't, and I doubt if I ever had it....as I remember picking
it up out of
Knorr's book and it was as an abstract. But I wouldn't think it would be at
all difficult to find since we have the date (22 Aug 1782)....unless somebody
has that one just lying around I'll put it on my next-trip-to-Va. list.

Maynard		08/06/1997 9:43:39
Re: Leg WorkKen, I have not researched the Poyner/Poynter name, but based on running
across it on occasion, plus gut suspicion of directions our dear surname
has gotten corrupted, I would say not the same. Just my guess. -lpb

On Tue, 05 Aug 1997 21:53:07 +0000 Ken Poole writes:
>I want to thank Carol also. I'm new here, but I know the data which
>gets on
>here comes from someone doing the leg work. I have a son-in-law in VA
>Beach, and we get up there whenever we can, and try to get into
>Chesterfield or whereever. Problem is, you have to have some idea of
>what
>to look for, which is more leg work.
>
>I have picked up a lot of Poythress information, some of which
>disagrees.
>Can someone tell me if Poynter is Poythress. Susan married Wm Hancock,
>born
>early 1600s.
>
>Anyone have Archer/Poythress infoprmation? Ken
>
>		08/06/1997 10:11:26
VKRatliff@aol.com: John Morris/Meredith Sr.In the numerous times over many years that I have seen this marriage
record quoted, the reference has always been secondary, i.e. Knorr's
Brunswick Marriages. Please, anyone, what is the primary source for
this? Carol Morrison, can you help on this one? -lpb

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: VKRatliff@aol.com
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: John Morris/Meredith Sr.
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:43:39 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970806114201_1727900520@emout08.mail.aol.com>

22 Aug 1782 John Morris & Elizabeth Edwards, dau. Thomas Edwards. Surety
Meredith Poythress makes affidavit that Elizabeth Edwards lives at the
home
of his father Thomas Poythress and is 23 years of age. Knorr's Brunswick
Marriages, p. 66

Al: "might this be the same John Morris we see in the deed Carol Morrison
just sent our way" : John Morris of Brunswick County to Meredith
Poythress 22
Sept 1783,
Order book 2, pgs. 506-507, Bruns. Co., 50 acres"

"Maynard...do you have the full transcription of the 22 Aug 1782
affidavit?"

Maynard: no, I don't, and I doubt if I ever had it....as I remember
picking
it up out of
Knorr's book and it was as an abstract. But I wouldn't think it would be
at
all difficult to find since we have the date (22 Aug 1782)....unless
somebody
has that one just lying around I'll put it on my next-trip-to-Va. list.

Maynard

--------- End forwarded message ----------		08/06/1997 10:14:47
Whence These Birthyears?Poythress List -

Bud raises some interesting questions. Here's another line of inquiry:
As I understand it, Martha Dixon believes Thomas the son was born in
1767. I would be particularly interested in knowing the source for this,
especially in light of our finding in Brunswick Order Book 8 (included by
Maynard in the Thomas timeline) of Thomas Sr. and Jr. in litigation in
1781. Would the age of legal majority at that time have been 21 years?
If so, then I would assume the Thomas Jr. of this notice was born by
1760. Even if legal majority were otherwise, I would be startled to
learn that a 14-year-old boy had been named as a defendant at suit.

I understand that Martha's younger Thomas might not be the Thomas, Jr. of
the suit. However if one assumes (a) the two-Thomas theory and (b) both
Virginia and Georgia "Thomas Poythresses" (as a set) are one and the
same, with no strays, then it would appear these Thomases of the suit are
Martha's father and son.

So, rambling back to the original question, where did Martha get the 1767
birthyear for younger Thomas? More broadly, what is the source for each
birthyear of each child? -lpb

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: BPoythress@aol.com
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com (poythressgenealogylist)
Cc: VKRatliff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lewis/George/Meredith & what if?
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 15:12:10 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970802151210_-871024220@emout02.mail.aol.com>

Maynard,

You are right, seems Meredith was still living when George wrote his Will
and
when he died, if Martha's "death dates" for the Poythress boys are
reasonable
correct.

BUT WHAT IF? (Try this on for size only)

1st note the birth dates: 1760 - Meredith
then 5 years later 1765 - George
" 2 " " 1767 - Thomas
James, Jr.
" 2 " " 1769 - Edward
" 2 " " 1771 - Lewis

Doesn't it seem a little odd that 5 years pass before Meredith &
Edith's
2nd child came along? Birth control being what it was in those days, I
'd
say that that seems rather unusual. Then after George (the 2nd child)
came,
they had one every 2 years like clockwork. That is, if we discount MEAP
as a
child of Thomas and Martha.

Do you suppose (it possibly), as Martha Dixon contends, Edith did in
fact "died in VA and could it have been in childbirth, maybe"?' --
probably
Meredith's birth? Something not at all unheard of back then!

Then just maybe Meredith married a 2nd time, while still in VA, and
might her name have been "Martha", as his mother was also named? And not
Susan R. Maner, which I still contend is much too young for Meredith (Sr)
to
have married. And too, wasn't there a second "Martha" floating around
back
there somewheres for a while -- who we were trying to connect with
someone?
Maybe she belonged to Meredith Sr?

That might open up another box of worms though.

However, that would make "Meredith and George as well as the rest
of
the Poythress boys only "half brothers" and obviously would explain
George
mentioning only his youngest "full" brother" as "still living in
Virginia" in
his WIll. Then too, I believe George's mention of Lewis only in a
reference
manner of the possibliity that if his first named beneficary "was not
still
living", then his property would pass to Lewis and his heirs.

Just something else I thought you might like to chew on? For it
seems
we have a numer of Thomases, Francises, Hetties, Johns, Jameses and a
few
other named characters floating around where name duplications seems to
be
the orders of the day.

Things are looking up here Maynard, so just in case all works out
here
for me on the trip to Slyvania and the "McBride Methodist Church
Poythress
Bar-be-cue" gathering, you'd better send me the proposed "plan of the
day"
for that Sunday, August 17th. IF i do make it, I'll most likely have our
#2
grandson with me.

Our very best wishes,

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com - 8/2/97 1:55 PM, aor 1355 hrs)

Maynard, send me the

Otherwise, the fact that Lewis being 6 years younger than Geroge
and
the youngest in the family too might have cause George to mention only
him.
Sort of taking care of the "baby of the family", cause if you are the
youngest you never outgrow that title, regardless of your age.

--------- End forwarded message ----------		08/06/1997 10:42:59
Re: MORRISLea, I am the fourth-great-grandson of Jesse Morris of Mecklenburg Co.
While I have seen many notices regarding Thomas Morris and many others of
Brunswick Co., I have never seen a connection. I have just received
(untested) evidence indicating Jesse was born in Richmond Co., Va.
(Northern Neck) and was the son of Hammond Morris, born Walkertown,
Forsyth Co., NC. How Jesse landed in Mecklenburg Co. beats me. I share
this with you a) just in case you recognize some connection that has
escaped me or b) so that you will know how to categorize any of my clan
as you run into them in your research.

Of note, the Brunswick Morris clan either died out, daughtered out, or
drifted out. The numerous Morris families now in the area are, I
believe, all my clan.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird

08/06/1997 11:22:55
Ga. Land LotteriesLyn, your two excellent questions re Ga. Land Lotteries:

Maynard, thanks for this information. Question: Under what conditions
could one (or, more specifically, could Martha, Edward and George call
themselves "orphans"? I'm 42 years old. If I should survive my father,
would I then be an orphan for lottery purposes? Seems ludicrous.

Second question: It appears from your message that one list (of winners)
references unnamed orphans of Thomas, and a second list (of entrants)
lists Martha, Edward and George POYTHRESS. Are these three anywhere
specifically identified as the orphans? If so, how? Else, is this
conjecture?

Preface: my first take on Ga. Lotteries records was only that we could spot
some people in specific places at specific times. I then got onto the notion
that we could draw some conclusions based on the entrants and the
qualifications for entry. I think we can...and probably also draw some
negative conclusions...and unfortunately more of the latter than the former.
And I think is has some meaningful Thomas/Martha/children implications.

Further, for the moment lets confine our interest to the 1st and 2nd
lotteries (1805 & 1807) because our question of the moment concerns Thomas'
folks and the next lottery wasn't until 1820 which takes us way out past
Thomas even if not some of his children. More importantly, by 1820 his
children could no longer qualify as orphans so they at any rate are off the
board by 1820 in terms of piggybacking as orphans of Thomas.

First question: the answer is NO, you had to be 21 or under to be an "orphan"
in your own right. It wasn't THAT MUCH of a boondoggle.

Second question: in 1807 I have scads of references to "Thomas Poythress
(orphans of). A note in my records says in Rev. Lucas' book he identifies
Martha, Edward, George as "qualified" to register as "Thomas Poythress
(orphans of)". I think its my mother's note and she is fairly clear on the
point. In NO place do I have the two "hooked".

Neither do I have Rev. Lucas' book. Throughout the rules of the lotteries the
legislation makes a big deal out of the date of the enabling
legislation/individual qualification as well as the actual date of the draw,
typically 2 or 3 years apart...so obviously somebody made and kept some
records that lasted the 2 or 3 years until the actual drawing.

I am inclined to believe that Rev. Lucas did indeed get his hands on the
registrant list and identified the three as the ones who registered as
"Thomas Poythress - orphans of". I will only be able to confirm that when I
can get to GDAH and find Lucas' book. His son is still in the genealogy
publishing biz "Georgia Genealogical Journal" (to which I subscribe) and I
will ask the son if its true and if so where would I find his father's source
for documentation. (If it turns out that Rev. Lucas' information is not
qualified, I have a different line of conjecture, frankly one that I think is
equally logical to the scenario below). How's that for hubris?

However, only accepting for the moment that Rev. Lucas did make the "link"
and specifically (and correctly) identified Martha, Edward & George as the
"orphans of" , I will offer the following CONJECTURES for the two lotteries:

1) 1805 "drawers" had to have lived in Ga. 1 year prior to the 1803 enabling
legislation and registration. Therefore, all of our folks in the 1805 lottery
- Edward, Francis, George, Martha, Meredith Sr., and William- had to be
established residents of Ga. in 1802.....which I don't think is any great
surprise but at least we pin them down to an 1802 "home". And those "homes"
put Edward, Martha, and George in Burke and Meredith and William in Screven,
entirely consistent with a "division" we later see.

2) all 5 of the men had to be married and/or have child or children to have
gotten 2 draws which they got (single guys got only 1 draw). It's not
particularly a surprise that they are all married.

3) Since in the 1805 lottery a woman could only register as a function of
"status" (widowhood, orphan) it is interesting to ask "how did Martha qualify
and for one draw or two" and thereby draw some conclusion as to WHO Martha
was. Keep in mind the laws consistently stated an entrant could qualify in
only ONE category.

The candidate of choice is Martha the widow of Sheriff Thomas Poythress.
Martha the widow would have been clearly eligible as:

# 3 Every widow with a child or children under 21 years of age and who
was an
inhabitant of the State of Georgia for 12 months prior to the
Act of 11 May
1803, was entitled to two draws.

She's Thomas' widow first because thats what earned her the right to draw ;
she could not otherwise have drawn on her own. Also nobody else married a
Martha that we know of. And any Thomas around that time who died in 1800
married to Martha would almost have to be the same Thomas that came from
Brunswick County, ESPECIALLY if they came bringing a infant from Virginia.

And the $64 question: who was the minor child? Why....MEAP of course! The
"caboose" herself as Martha Dixon appropriately named her. Born 26 Jan 1786
and 17 years old at the time of the legislation and 19 years old at the time
of the draw, a convenient minor making Mom eligible to draw for free land.

By any chance could it have been MEAP herself? No, assuming they went by the
rules. MEAP, not being 21, could have only qualified under orphan status:

# 4) Every family of orphans, under 21 years of age and having both
parents
dead or father dead and mother remarried, was entitled to ONE
(1) draw.

We eliminate MEAP as the actual "drawer" on two counts, one circumstantial
and one fairly conclusive. A big stretch of the law might have allowed a
family with AN orphan to be a family OF orphans (with Thomas and mother
Martha both dead) but thats not all that likely. Second, and I propose
conclusive, it is a matter of record that the Martha doing the drawing got
TWO draws, not the one draw stipulated for orphans. So she was a widow, not
an orphan.

There were only 4 categories. Two are above, one deals with married males
over 21 and the other with unmarried males over 21...i. e., no other options.

4) by 1997 standards, not letting women draw "as women" was certainly not
politically correct but in the Zeitgeist they figured I guess that they had
some rationale in that the original purpose was to lure homesteaders into
those areas which were not yet cleared for farming and in fact not totally
cleared of a sizable bunch of marauding Creeks who had not accepted the
"cessesion" of the ground.

So why would they let a WIDOW draw and not a SINGLE woman? Well, I suppose
the rationale was that winning land would help a widow to be a better
prospective wife and, in the instance of single women, the "right" of the
draw should belong not to her
but to her as yet unknown future husband because if she turned out to be a
"spinster" they CERTAINLY wouldn't want her to get any "free" land. This was
changed for the next lottery (1807) to make single females over 21 eligible.

Anyway, I didn't say it made any sense, I just said we could draw come
conclusions off of it.

5) On to the 1807 Lottery....requirement: be a citizen of Ga. 3 years prior
to the enabling Act of 1806 so the "orphans of Thomas Poythress" were
Georgia citizens BY 26 June 1803. Excluded were winners in the previous
lottery (1805). That eliminates only William who was the only Poythress
winner in 1805.

The orphan categories were:
# 5 Every family of orphans under 21 years of age whose father was
dead....got
one draw. [this one is kind of tricky, could MEAP qualify both
herself and
brothers or whatever under this one?...maybe so....it doesn't
say ALL the
orphans have to be under 21- but I conclude it IS MEAP. She
didn't need
to sneak in on this one, she clearly qualified via # 7 below]

# 6 Every family of two or more orphans, whose mother and father
were both
dead, got 2 draws. They would be registered in the county and
district
where the eldest orphan lived. [no, they only had "one"
orphan]

# 7 Every family with one only ONE (1) orphan under 21 years of
age, whose
mother and father were both dead was entitled to 1 draw. [ If
the "drawing"
Martha was MEAP then the other Martha (widow of Thomas and
mother of
MEAP died some time between the 1805 drawing (in which she
participated as a widow..... and the 1807 drawing the Martha
who
actually drew was MEAP drawing as her orphan and "qualified"
by the
death of her mother Martha.

Only one question remains.....why did MEAP draw as an "orphan of" instead of
her own right under provision # 4 of the 1807 lottery: " Every free white
female, unmarried, and 21years or older, was entitled to one draw. Because,
at the time of "entry" in
1806 MEAP was only 20 years old and inelligible under this provision.

I think this analysis IMPLIES several important things, NONE CONCLUSIVELY but
it adds a little something to the cases:

1. We "authenticate" MEAP as a late in life child of Thomas the
sheriff and wife
Martha.

2. We add evidence to the two Thomas option because if the "orphan"
involved
is indeed MEAP she almost has to be the daughter of Thomas the
sheriff. Or
am I just seeing it that way because thats what I want to see.
Pls be critical.

3. Thomas, Jr. (or Thomas III depending on your view) had indeed "died
or moved
away" by 1803....just as Martha says. But in any case he didn't
register for
ANY of the lotteries and that's fairly strong evidence.

4. Again remembering that we have to "creditialize" Rev. Lucas, we now
have a
fairly good guess that there was a brother Edward in there who has
been
showing on the scene pretty regularly with respect to legal
papers.

5. And just to muddle matters up really good, where was Meredith, Sr.?
If we
have him "proved" as a son of Thomas....are we now looking at a
different
Thomas?.......or (and this is my guess) was Meredith now lopped
off into
Screven by the act of 1793 and not around to register with
them....he would
had to have known the 3 were going to Waynesborough (Burke county
seat)
and on what day....and traveled all the way from Screven to get
into the
picture...those are tough logistics for 1806.

If anyone has the time I'd appreciate a critique. I have previously
demonstrated I am fully capable of building a air castle. And if one needs a
comprehensive run down of all the stipulations pertaining to each lottery it
is fairly easy to come by: go to >

* http://www.usgenweb.com/index.html
* scroll down to (or click on...I can't remember) the outline map
of U. S.
* put cursor on Georgia and double click.
* go to counties and select "Bulloch"
* click on land lotteries and there is a descriptive page for each
of the
6 lotteries....rules, etc....no lists of entrants or winners, you
gotta dig that
out yourself at GDAH. If the list of entrants and winners is
on-line I haven't
been able to find it.

By golly, Lyn, that'll teach you to ask a simple question. You just asked
what time it was and you got instructions on how to build a watch :).

Maynard		08/07/1997 3:53:30
Re: MORRISAlbert R. TimsLea,

Many thanks. I'm not quite sure what I'd do with the Rives data right now,
but I do appreciate knowing about the Rives study and your records. I was
"hoping" we might use the Rives connections to help circle the wagons on
Thomas Poythress. We seem to be SO close ...

Many thanks!
Al Tims

08/07/1997 8:53:02
Re: Knorr's Marriage Bonds & Returns.Charles NealLyn,

In the forword/Introduction of Catherine Lindsay Knorr's book, __Marriage
Bonds and Ministers Returns of Brunswick Co, VA, 1750-1810__, (1953) she
explains her sources. I have not studied all of these sources, but they
may all be at what was formerly called the Virginia State Library (VSL,
below) and is now called The Library of Virginia (in Richmond); or maybe
Brunswick Co court house still has what it sounds like in her 1953
Introduction. Possibly they are all on the microfilm that they lend out
thru interlibrary loan if you are fortunate enough to live near a Library
with a working microfilm-reader that will let you order microfilm. At any
rate, the film at Library of Va for the 2 Poythress marriages I have
ordered copies of, was described by the Library as "Brunswick County
Marriage Register, 1751-1853, Reel 51." I have never ordered copies of the
one you refer to, in your message.

Below I'll use "(P)" for delineating paragraphs. What she says is, in
part:, first explaining how she ensconced herself in the court house at
Brunswick Co, with the help of the then-Clerk, and went thru all the
Registers apparently, then: (P) "From Lawrenceville I went to Richmond to
check the Brunswick bonds against the Richmond copy. The Brunswick list is
alphabetically arranged and the Richmond list chronologically arranged.
Since it took less time to copy the entire list than to check one against
the other that is what I did. (P) In 1927 the Brunswick Co officials
employed some one to copy the loose marriage bonds. This was done, the
marriages alphabetically arranged and copied in a book. Up to and
including 1810 there are 1,470 marriages entered. (P) Then in 1938 the
loose bonds were sent for safe keeping in fireproof quarters to the
Virginia State Library, Archives Division, Richmond. Here, in 1941, they
were copied again by Miss Stella Bass of the VSL Staff. These are arranged
chronologically in a large Marriage Register. There are 1,501 entries up
to and including 1810 -- 31 more than the Brunswick copy. (P) These data
do not always agree with the Brunswick list. Where there is a descrepancy
[sic] in the groom's name I have made two cards. In the case of a
discrepancy in the bride's name it has been noted on the card -- "Bowler
Dobbins married Jane Hearn": "Brunswick says __Ann__ Hearn." All
discrepancies have been checked by the __original bonds__ not just one list
against the other.....[another long example given] Again the Brunswick
list is clearly wrong. (P) The reference paging given in this book is from
the VSL copy except where it states "Brunswick p.33". There are several
reasons for this. For the same period 1750-1810 there are 31 more
marriages in the VSL copy than in the Brunswick copy, also the VSL gives
middle names and the Brunswick copy initials only. Then if any one cares
to check the information contained in this book he or she would have to
revert to the __original bonds__ which are in the Archives department of
the VSL. (P) The Ministers' Returns starting 1782 are in the back of the
VSL copy of Brunswick Marriages. They do not appear in the Brunswick copy.
They are very important. Copied and checked against the bonds, it will be
seen there are many marriages in the Ministers' Returns for which there are
no bonds. This book contains 208 of them between 1782-1810. (P) in July
1898 there was published a list of Brunswick county marriage bonds in the
W&M Qtrly, Vol. VII, pp 37-38: again a much larger Brunswick list was
published in 1911 in the same magazine Vol. XX pp 195-210 inclusive. In
April 1920 the Virginia magazine [magazine not further identified in this
Intro by Knorr] published a list of Brunswick marriages, continued in
October 1921, Vol. XXIX pp 166-168 inclusive, and 508-510 inclusive. (P)
All three of these lists have been carefully checked against both the
Brunswick and the VSL lists. Result: an even dozen marriages that did not
appear in the other two lists. They are included with their exact
references. These three lists were published __before__ the Brunswick list
was made and it is highly probable that there were loose bonds that had
disappeared by 1927."

All for now. 8/7/97
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/07/1997 9:32:16
Re: Leg WorkCharles NealNONE of them ring a bell with me, Linda.
BPN

08/07/1997 10:03:11
Re: MORRISLea L. DowdAl,

There are more William Rives than you can shake a stick at. I am a Rives
descendant from Robert Hicks marrying Rebecca Rives, daughter of Timothy
Rives, son of William Rives. This line has been blessed with a very deep
study by a Mr. Childs entitled "Reliques of Rives". The book is extremely
well documented and I have found very, very few errors.

If interested, I do have most of the Rives line connected for the first 5
generations. There were also three Benjamin Rives as well.

Lea		08/07/1997 10:04:39
Re: Early marriageAl,
Regarding your message about Bolling per Ken req. In your information you
mention the Bolling home or plantation known as "Kippax" in Prince George Co.
I have lived and grown up in nearby Chesterfield Co. and I do believe there
is an older home in Hopewell known as Kippax or else there is a Kippax Manor
name after the same. This could also be the link to Poythress since I think
this home and Poythress St in Hopewell are very close.
Just sharing my thoughts.

Bruce Porter(Poythress)

08/08/1997 5:07:17
Re: Leg WorkHi Ken,
I'm Bruce and I live in Chesterfield, just don't seem to have the time to
spend at the Library. Just though I would introduce myself, but my Poythress
family was the Northampton Co. NC side. Some have migrated to VA but we
haven't found the link to VA original ones yet.

Bruce Porter (Poythress)

08/08/1997 5:21:17
Interesting Placeswayne scruggsPoythress List:
I am flying to Maryland this Monday. I will drive back to Atlanta with
my husband on Thursday. We plan to stop in Va. for a day or so. I won't
have time to do any research in the Library, but I want to visit some
old Poythress sites and take pictures. I plan on visiting Flower Dew
Hundred in Prince George Co., also the Blandford Cemetary & Church in
Petersburg. The Bruton Parish Church in Williamsburg & Bothwell in
Dinwiddie Co. Can you give me some ideas on other places of interest
that I can photograph that would have to do with the Poythress Family.
I have Linda Starr's directions to Bothwell.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Judy Speed Scruggs

08/08/1997 5:31:32
John POYTHRESS of Prince George Co., VAI would like to obtain information regarding John POYTHRESS of Prince
George Co., VA. He died in that county in 1724 leaving a will. His wife was
Mary, daughter of Captain Henry Batte. I'm particularly interested in the
marriages of John's children.

Your help is appreciated.

Charles Ward
CMW12635@aol.com		08/08/1997 7:27:37
More GA InfoCharles NealA friend of mine in Mobile, AL who recently celebrated his 91st birthday,
sent me his notations from consulting several books in a series of
"Milledgeville, GA Newspaper Clippings" at the Special (Genealogical)
Collections Unit of the Mobile Public Library. The compiler of the book
series is Tad Evans, and at least part of the series was published (maybe
the whole series, however long it is) in 1996 with a grant from the R. J.
Taylor Foundation.

Milledgeville was the state capitol for a long time, and thus its
newspapers had articles about events & people from all over the state.

He found that Volume I of the 7 volumes (which covered 1820-1827, of which
newspaper, he neglected to say) was the only one mentioning the Poythress
name. Below is exactly what he copied down by hand. Maybe next time,
Maynard, you are at GDAH (which probably has the same series of volumes by
Tad Evans) you can better verify what DATES these were in what papers for
us? Sure would appreciate it, since I don't really feel I can ask him to
go back down to the Library & re-look for me. These can provide us more
amplifying info about George.

(1) George Poythress -- p. 255, 278, and 326. [?! of volume 1, I
presume]
Morgan Co. - Lauren Co. Academy Dublin
Trustees: George Poythress, John Fulword, Josiah Horn, Neil Monroe, Thos.
H. Wilkinson, Andrew Hampton, Eli Warren.

(2) Lauren Co. Sheriffs Sale
On the first Tuesday in next May be sold at the Courthouse in the town of
Dublin, Laurens County, during the usual hours of sale, the following
property to wit:
1,000 acres of land adjoining George Poythress and Thomas Dixon, levied on
as the property of Etheldred Thomas, to satisfy executions of Fi Fas in
favor of John J. Underwood, also Negro Boy levied on the property of
William Spell to satisfy executions on Fi Fas in favor of J. H. Yopp.

(3) A teacher wanted.
The trustees of Lauren County Academy are desirous of engaging for the
remaining part of the present year, and also for the next year, a competent
teacher. Any applying for this situation will be expected to produce the
most indubitable testimony of his ample qualifications and of the sobriety
and morality of his character. Signed: George Poythress, Josiah Horn,
Thomas H. Wilkerson, Eli Warren; Trustees. [Wilkerson here & Wilkinson
above in #1]

(4) J. Poythress -- p.50 Warren Co.
35 names listed, including J. Poythress
NO FURTHER DESCRIPTION [<- his notation]

And he also noted that "I also checked other Georgia Newspaper Clippings,
which had NO records of any Poythress names:
(1) Brooks Co., Vol. 1, 1866-1889
(2) Baldwin Co., Vol. 9, 1863-1869, and volumes 1 thru 8."

All for now, folks.
BPN		08/08/1997 7:31:23
William Poythress of Northampton Co., NCLea L. DowdDB 4:196 Northampton Co., NC
William Poythress of Northampton Co., NC to Rachel (Richard) Outlaw (no
day) Dec 1768. 5 shillings proclamation & good will & affection.
Livestock, household goods, etc. William Poythress. Wit: James Dancy, Jno.
Clayton. Dec Ct. 1768

Interesting as the Outlaw surname has been mentioned in association with
Native Americans......

Lea		08/08/1997 12:41:54
Meredith's 106 AcresAl & Bud....in working on time line for Meredith, Sr. I'm now into that
famous 106 acres of land in Briar Creek swamp that changes hands three
times.....I had some questions on it and in the process of trying to copy and
past the three citations I managed to lose my own documentation.

Here is what I have...can anybody flesh out the citations/details on these
three transactions for me:

1) ________1802 Meredith, Sr. buys 106 acres in Briar Creek swamp
from_____and Nancy Colding for $ 300. DB_____ pg.______

2) Meredith P. of Screven sold to George P. of Burke 106 acres of land in
Briar Creek swamp for $300. Screven DB A, page 112.

3) In 1818George sells 106 acres of land in Briar Creek swamp to Meredith for
$ 300.
DB_______ pg.______.

I can imagine what that was all about....would anyone like to hazard a guess?
If it had "gone the other way" I would have said George (who was well off)
was helping
Meredith with a need for cash....Meredith, Jr. always seemed to be trying to
"cash in" things from time to time, maybe his father was like him. But no,
this one is going the wrong way for that scenario.

Anybody have the details above that I have lost.......and/or an opinion as to
whether the transaction might have amounted to anything more than the
customary deal of
country boys just trading land cause there wasn't anything else to trade.

Thanks,

Maynard		08/09/1997 8:06:58
Meredith's 106 AcresCharles NealMaynard,
Sorry, but I don't think I have any of those Briar Creek records you are
looking for, so I can't help you.

It was reassuring to get your message, though, since I had not gotten but a
couple of messages much earlier today & was beginning to wonder if
something was wrong. Guess the world is just busy with other things today.
Ay, BPN 8/9/97		08/09/1997 9:11:03
Re: Meredith's 106 Acres & another Methodist Church connectionAlbert R. TimsMaynard,

I don't think I have the other information unless it was in one of your
earlier posts. If so, I'll have it in the archives and call get it back.
You folks lost me on the GA records a few weeks back :-). I Meredith, Sr.
time line would be great. Let me know if I can help pulling up old posts.

BTW, Judy Speed just came back from Meridian, MS and discovered that the
Hawkins Memorial Methodist Church (directly across from the location where
the home of James David Poythress once stood) has a cornerstone with the
names of the church founders. She said she couldn't make out the date on
the stone, but C. H. Poythress is listed as one of the founders. Judy says
her aunt, Ruth Poythress, confirmed that this was Carl Hutton Poythress.
Carl Hutton was the brother of James David Poythress. James David and Carl
Hutton were sons of James Speed Poythress -- who migrated from Mecklenburg
Co., VA along with James Edward Poythress and family.

Perhaps Barbara Poythress Neal knows more? I find the connection the the
founding of a Methodist Church quite interesting. I'm hoping my mother
and/or Judy will do some additional research on the history of this church
in Meridian.

Way to go, Judy!

Best,

Al Tims

08/09/1997 9:41:26
Re: Another Methodist Church connectionCharles NealAl & Judy,

Was good to learn of the Hawkins Memorial Methodist Church & its
cornerstone; had not known any of that before. I, too, would like to learn
more. Hopefully Hawkins Memorial has a published history book re itself
for sale in the church office? If so, I would like to know the cost &
ordering procedure.

Judy, What is the street address & phone number of the church?

Thanks,

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/10/97		08/10/1997 2:02:24
Re: Meredith stuffCharles NealMaybe Maynard & Bud, you guys are already aware of this (& maybe one of you
just posted it recently, but I don't think so).

I have a photocopy from Craig Scott several years ago, of a transcription
that Sandra Scott Pope did in 8/83 and gave to Craig, of a Will and a
Codicil to that Will, in Screven County, GA. It gives some illumination re
when Meredith Poythress JR was around & when he was no longer around, in
case that info helps your current work.

These documents are important to us only because of who witnessed, & when
so I am NOT going to put the entire 5 pages in. She used one of those
typewriter fonts that tries to look "script-ish" and is a pain to try to
read certain characters of.

It is the Will of "I, James Scott Sr." of Screven Co, GA, which he signed
on 3 May 1828. The Will is witnessed by 3 names given only as:
Richard R. Scott,
Jacob Wells,
Meredith Poythress

But then the paragraph just after those witnesses' names goes on to say
[with all-caps of names emphasized by me]:
[at Screven Co, GA on 9 April 1832] "Personally appeared Jacob Wells and
Richard R. Scott who being duly sworn, deposeth and saith that they were
present and saw the within named James Scott Sr, sign, seal and acknowledge
the within instrument of writing as his last Will and Testament, by making
the initial "I" his mark, that deponents believe him at the time, to be in
sound and disposing mind, and that they saw MEREDITH POYTHRESS, JR. sign
the same as witness, together with themselves. Sworn to and subscribed
before us, 9th April 1832 in vacation. Richard R. Scott. Jacob Wells.
HOPE BRANNEN, I.I.C.
Jacob Bryan, I.I.C. [note: I have no idea what I.I.C. stands for]

And then, following that is the "Codicil to the Above Will" written on 5
March 1831, by "I, James Scott" which was witnessed by: Richard Reivy
Scott, John Zeagler, and Jacob H. Wells. This one was also presented and
sworn to on 9 April, 1832, and also shows:
HOPE BRANNEN, I.I.C.
Jacob Bryan, I.I.C.
and also shows:
"Recorded this 8th day of May 1832. Seaborn Goodall C.C.O.Sc." which I
interpret as Seaborn being Clerk Court Of Screven, or maybe Clerk Court
Ordinary Screven.

Then at the bottom of it all, Sandra Scott Pope put:
"Note: James Scott, Sr.'s Last Will & Testament is recorded on record in
the Screven County's Probate Office, Sylvania, Georgia. This is a type
written copy as it appears on record."

Unfortunately, she doesn't give the Will Book # and page where this was
recorded.

Hope this may help you in some way.
Ay,
BPN		08/10/1997 3:58:43
Houston County LandBud.....if that analysis of Ga. Lottery awards and subsequent land sales by
many (if not most) lottery winners hasn't done anything else....I think it
has taken off the table any question that either one of the Merediths ever
actually moved to the wilderness of Houston County 150 or so miles away. It
was pretty simple....they entered the lottery on the chance of winning free
land, they won it, and then they sold it...about as fast as they could find a
buyer.

You agree with that one?

Maynard		08/10/1997 4:32:59
Poythress CleatonI think the board already has this but I'll put it up to be sure.

From Katherine Elliott's "Early Wills (1765-1799) Mecklenburg County" :

Cleaton, Poythress pg. 70 (no book cited)

Inventory and appraisal of the estate of Poythress Cleaton, deceased.
Appraisers: John Eppes, Charles Coppedge, John Smith.
Date 25 Sep 1783 Recorded 9 Aug 1784

Since Meredith Poythress married Edith Cleaton in 1781 this implies
(as I think has already been pointed out) a Poythress/Cleaton connection
that ante dates the marriage of Edith and Meredith by two generations.

Maynard		08/10/1997 4:33:22
Meredith Poythress, Sr.Time line attached.

Couple of comments:

1) again this is certainly intended to be a working document. I know there
will be
corrections so don't hesitate to post them. Nothing terribly illogical
jumped out at
me but its entirely possible I missed some significant stuff.

2) I am still without a clue as to Meredith's relationship with Lewis,
Edward, George,
Francis, MEAP, etc. If some one sees one by all means point us to it.

Maynard

Meredith Poythress, Sr.
Time Line
(Date in Bold type= item needs documentation

1760 Assumed birth date of Meredith based on 1) Martha Dixon est. and
marriage date of 1781.

14 Jul 1781 Meredith Poythress, Sr. marries Edith Cleaton in Mecklenburg Co.,
Va. Marriage License Bonds of Mecklenburg Co., Va. , p. 41, by
Stratton Nottingham. Edith Cleaton was daughter of William Cleaton
whose will was probated Mecklenburg County, 1796

1782 Va. Personal Property Tax Records, Thomas Poythress, with
Meredith
Poythress, 6 slaves, 6 horses, & 18 cattle..Brunswick Co. Tax List.

22 Sep 1783 John Morris of County of Brunswick, Virginia conveys unto
Meredith
Poythress of same county for a consideration of 40 Ls, 50 acres beginning
at Oak on Eaton�s Road on James Upchurch�s line, mentions Morris line
and Zachariah Sim�s line. Signed by John (X) Morris. Brunswick County,
Order BK 2, pg. 506.

1783 Meredith Poythress shown on Brunswick personal property tax
list 1783
with 1 tithe, 1 horse, 1 cattle. Brunswick Personal Property Tax List.

24 Jan 1784 Meredith Poythress and Edith his wife convey land to James Phipps
and
said deed recorded. Brunswick County, Va. Order BK 14, pg. 58. (A deed
was found which shows James Phipps selling this identical property to
George Johnson on 6 Oct 1787. Brunswick County DB 14, pg. 135)

1 Mch 1786 Meredith Poythress to William Cleaton both of Mecklenburg County,
Va.
--personal property and the tax on 375 acres of land for two years is
mentioned. Mecklenburg Co., DB 7, pg. 52. (comment of Anne Taylor
Brown, Bud�s researcher: �This tends to indicate that Meredith Poythress
was leasing land from William Cleaton�) [ note: I have a photocopy of this
bill of sale, it is obviously the sale to William Cleaton of all of the
household goods of Meredith....prior to moving to Ga. ? Likely. After the
death of Edith Cleaton ? Unknown.]

1786 Meredith Poythress shown on Personal Property Tax Records of
Mecklenburg Co. listing 1 horse and 1 cattle. Bruns. Co. Pers. Prop. List

1787 Meredith Poythress shown on Mecklenburg personal property
tax list of
1787 (List A) charged with tax only on �self� --no dependants, no tithes,
no slaves.

14 Feb 1789 William Cleaton of Mecklenburg County, Va. conveys unto George
Nicholson of Warren Co., NC to whom he is indebted - 150 acres on
waters of Parham Creek adj. Wm. Taylor, Isham Epps, and Crowley�s line
it being part of tract where Meredith Poythress lives. Witnesses: Marriott
Davis, Thomas Goodwyn Taylor, and Coleman (X) Yound. Mecklenburg
DB 7, pg. 482.[MP comment: note appearance of that Isham Epps name
which is a very possible PG county link]

1790 Meredith Poythress, Jr. born Va. (deduced from 1850 Screven,
Ga.
census)

Nov 1790 Meredith Poythress - Insolvent - 1 horse......list of insolvents
& non-
residents for the revenue of taxes due for 1789 returned by John
Wilson, Jr. D.Sheriff, Mecklenburg County to Nov. Court 1790.

14 Dec 1793 Screven County created, taking lower part of Burke Co.

26 Dec 1793 Meredith Poythress second for Lewis Poythress in marriage to
Patsey
Giles. Marriage License Bonds for Mecklenburg County, Va. , pg. 14,
Stratton Nottingham.

1794 Meredith Poythress listed a slave Charles on the 1794
personal property
tax list in Mecklenburg County, Va.

11 Apr 1796 Meredith�s wife Edith Poythress mentioned in will of her father,
William
Cleaton. Mecklenburg Co., Va. WB 3, pg. 339.

24 Dec 1797 Meredith Poythress of Screven County, Ga. deeded 100 acres of
land to
George Poythress of Burke County. George Poythress then Sheriff of
Burke Co., Ga. Served 17 Nov 1797-21 Oct 1799 when succeeded by his
father Thomas Poythress who serves as sheriff until his (Thomas� death in
1800). Screven DB ________________________________________

28 May 1798 Meredith Poythress witnessed will of Fredrick Collins of
Mecklenburg
County, Va. WB 4, p. 38.

1800 Tax List Lower Mecklenburg County shows Lewis Poythress,
Meredith
Poythress; Meredith2 with son Peter (2 meaning Peter between ages of
16 and 21.) (Vol 2, p.191, Lower District Commissioner John Holms).

28 Oct 1802 Thomas Colding and Nancy Colding, his wife, of Screven, for $
300, sold
Meredith Poythress of Burke County [?], 106 acres bounded on SE and
SW by vacant land, on S by James Beville, on NW and NE by Henry Joyce,
and NW by Briar Creek Swamp. Wit: William Blain(?), Archa Lasiter
Proven 28 Mch 1803; Reg. 1 Mch 1803. Screven County DB 1794-1805,
Bk A, pgs. 340-341.

10 Dec 1803 Meredith Poythress of Screven County, Ga. sold to George
Poythress
of Burke Co., Ga. 106 acres of land in Briar Creek Swamp. Screven Co.
Deeds 1801-1810 Bk A (old) or Bk 2-P (new) pgs. 112-113. (Note:this
is identical property to above).

1804 Land Grants recorded by Clerk of Superior Court, Screven County,
Book
I...Porthress, Meredith. Other info_______________________________

21 Jan 1804 �Will be sold, on the first Tues. in Mar. next, at the Courthouse
in Screven
County, 405 acres on the south side of Briar Creek, adjoining lands of
Caleb Howell....Meredith Poythress, taken as the property of William
Miller to satisfy a debt due Saul Simons. �Columbian Museum & Savannah
Advertiser, issue of 21 Jan 1804, pg. 3, col. 5.

1805 Meredith, Sr. unsuccessful candidate in Ga. Land Lottery of
1805.
Registered same time as William Poythress (consecutive reg. numbers).

1806 Meredith granted 56 acres in Screven Co., Book F-5, pg. 572 [ a
Poythress
in legislature- likely George]

1 Jan 1808 Meredith Poythesf...letter waiting at Savannah Post Office 1
Jan 1808.
Columbia Museum & Savannah Advertiser 1/1/1808, p. 2, col. 5.

7 Jul 1809 Meredith Poythress, Sr. (?) accepts payment from Peter
Poythress(son)
for land in Mecklenburg County, Va. sold to Thomas Cleaton.
Book A-2, p. 182, Screven County.

1811 Meredith granted 687 acres in Screven County, Bk H-5, page 48.
The
introduction to book states that the Revolutionary War Services of a
grantee are not stated. [what does this mean?]

7 Feb 1818 At an Inferior Court began and held at Jacksonborough in and for
the
County of Scriven for Ordinary Purposes present their Honors Reuben
Wilkinson, Roger McKinney & Thomas Brannen Esqrs. 7th Feb 1818.
Ordered that Meredith Poythress, administrator in right of his wife on
the estate of Benjamin Mock late of Screven County dced. be granted
Letters dismissory on sd. Estate. It appearing to the Court that a citation
has been duely published. (photo copy but no reference cited)

14 Mch 1818 Meredith buys back land from George, 106 acres in Briar Creek
swamp.
[see 10 Dec 1803 entry above].Screven County Records, 1817-1824,
Record Book K (old), 4-P New, pg. 76.[ Question: why did Meredith
want to buy it back or why did George want to sell it back? Bud
Poythress has a very logical speculation: George was lightening up on
his Georgia holdings preparatory to moving to Florida.

1821 Meredith, Sr. successful candidate Ga. Land Lottery of 1821.
Wins section
13, land lot 16 in Houston County. (Standard lot was 202 1/2 acres).

1827 Meredith Poythress of Screven County (and William
Poythress of Burke
County), both described themselves as Rev. War soldiers. William did
not claim his grant...�was probably dead� [how do we know this?]

8 Mar 1827 Meredith, Sr. named as father in Will of Cleton Poythress 8 Mar
1827.
Also mentions Meredith, Jr. as brother. Screven Book I (GDAH 110/8)

3 May 1828 Meredith a witness to will of James Scott, �Annals of Georgia�
by Wilson.
Vol. 2, pg. 141 [Meredith, Sr. or Meredith, Jr.?]

1830 Census indicates a free white male between 60 and 70 living
in household
with Meredith, Jr. Presumed to be Meredith, Sr.

1832 Meredith, Sr. successful candidate Ga. Land Lottery of 1832. Wins
section section 2, lot 1078, Cobb County.

Before 1840 Meredith, Sr. assumed to have died after 1832, before 1840 [does
not
show on 1840 census].		08/10/1997 10:35:46
Re: Meredith's 106 Acres; and other stuffMaynard,

First off Maynard, thanks for the info on the Sylvania crowd. I got
letter off to Frances Reddick to let her know we are planning on attending.

Now: I reviewed my files on Kathy Best's reports and her report
dated May 8th, 1991 reported the following concerning those 106 acrea that
kept changing hands.

1) Screven Cty Deeds 1794 - 1805, Bk A, Part 1 , pg 340-341: 28
Oct. 1802, in the 27th year of American Independence, Thomas Colding and
Nancy his wife, of Screven Co., for $300 sold Meredith Poythress of Burke
Co., 106 acres bounded on S.E. & S.W. by vacant land, on S. by James Beville,
on N.W. & N.E. by Henry Joyce and N.W. by BVrier Creek Swamp. Wit. William
Blain(?), Archa Lasitger. Proven 28 Mar 1803(?). Reg.1 Mar. 1803(?)
(My comment -- Kathy's report listed above the "?" marks. I guess
she was just questioning the spelling and/or dates - or maybe poor document
quality that made them just difficult to read).

2) Screven Co. Deeds 1801 - 1810, Book A , (Old) or 2-P (New), pg
112-113: 10 Dec. 1803(?) 28th year of the American Independence, Meredith
Poytrhress of Screven Co., for $300, sold George Poythress of Burke Co., 106
acres (same as aove). Wit: Robert Leverett, David Emanuel J.P. Recorded
19 Dec. 1803.

3) Screven Co. Deeds 1817 - 1824, Record K (Old), 4-P (New), pg.
76;
14 Mar. 1818, 42nd year of American independence. George Poythress of Burke
Co., for $300., sold Mer(i)deth Poythress of Screven Co., 106 acres in
Screven Co., bound on S.W. & S.E. by vacant land, S. by Michaelburg
Williamson; N.W. by Henry Joyce; also N.E. & N.W. by Brier Creek Swamp. Wit:
John Carpenter, James Jackson J.(?) C. Recorded 30 Mar 1818

I have no idea why they moved this 106 acres around, but maybe Meredith
did buy it back for George when he George decided to move to Florida? Who
knows? Meredith first bought it in 1802, then sold it to Geroge in 1803.
Then George held on to it for quite some time, about 1 years -- until 1818.

Maybe brother George was beginning his plans to leave for Florida
permanently, so he just wanted to reduce his responsibilities in GA by
disposing of everything he had outside of Burke Cty. Who knows?

A 2nd subject: --

Another item, concerning the question Martha Dixon mentioned that she
thought Susan R. Maner was Meredith "Sr's" 2nd wife, whereas we had
determined she was Meredith "Jr's" second wife. (And it is my further belief
that "IF" Meredith "Sr" did lose his wife "Edith Cleaton" before leaving VA
for GA, then he just may have married a local VA gal names "Martha" as his
2nd wife before his departure for GA! - But I'm just guessing here).

In support of Susan R. Maner being Meredith, Jr's 2nd wife: The 1850
Census of Screven Cty, GA shows "Meredith, Head of house" and being 60 years
old; Susan as 50 years old and with issues of Mary 21; Susan 18; John 15;
Daniel 12; and Ruthy 10.

Martha's data list Meredith Sr as born in "1760" and for this 1850
Census report to have been on Meredith Sr, he would have been about 90 years
old - not very likely I don't believe. Of course we Poythress guys do
get a round, but.....???,
I don't think so.

Take care,

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.com - 8/10/97 - 2:55 PM EDT).		08/10/1997 12:56:23
Re: Meredith stuffBarbara (BPN)

Thanks very much, cuz.

This Will seems to indicate to me that "one of our Merediths was alive
and kicking" in 1828, but which Meredith was it? Jr or Sr? The witnesses
signatures were Richard R. Scott, Jacob Wells and "Meredith Poythress."
Meredith Sr would have been about 68 years old (if he was still alive) when
this was signed whereas Jr would have been about 38, which seems a little
more likely!

The certification document of April 9, 1832 says "MEREDITH POYTHRESS,
JR" but how do you supposed they determined it was Jr(?) -- unless the
document actually reflected "JR". And of course Scott and Wells should have
known if it was "Jr", and then maybe the officials specifically asked them?
For Hope Brennen would have known himself.

But these fellows seldom ever signed as "Sr" or "Jr", and that is one of
our main troubling points in determining who was where and when?

Your translation of the meaning of "C.C.O.Sc." is as good as any for me.

What say you Maynard?

Take care, and regards to the family,

Bud (BPoythress)		08/11/1997 6:51:00
Re: Meredith stuffCharles NealBud,

Re: "... how do you supposed they determined it was Jr(?) -- unless the
document actually reflected "JR". And of course Scott and Wells should
have
known if it was "Jr", and then maybe the officials specifically asked them?
For Hope Brennen would have known himself."

My own understanding & reading of all that is:
ALL of the people involved would have known each other & they would also
have known each others' family members: this was a small-town back then,
you'll recall. So their own knowledge is how they would have determined
it was Jr. It may have even been Hope Brannon who pointed out to them,
when they were swearing that "Meredith was there with us, signing," that
in order for the court record to be clear on who all was there, they may
should say "Jr" in their certification.

All for now. Thanks for your feedback, Bud; it's always good to know
someone is reading these things.

Best to you & yours,
BPN 8/11/97		08/11/1997 9:38:35
Meredith Poythress, Sr.Charles NealMaynard,

Appreciate all your time & efforts on putting together this & the prior
timelines!! Good job.

Ay,
BPN 8/11/97		08/11/1997 9:38:41
Off-LineCharles Neal8/11/97
Dear Folks,

I'll be off-line until Sunday. We are headed out to go camping near
Yosemite.

Look forward to catching up with you Sunday the 17th. Happy Poythress
hunting in the meantime.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/11/1997 9:47:21
Misc....part 1Al, I went down to the State Library attempting to get the information
that you inquired about....I found the Calendar of State Papers where this
information is located. I don't believe that it offers any new information
that is of interest.
I found the proclamation for Benj Woodward's arrest:

Calendar of State Papers, Volume 5, p 178

June 29th, Richmond

JAMES WOOD, LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA

Who in the absence of the Governor, issues this proclamation for the
arrest of one Benjamin Woodward, who upon the confession of James Arthur
before the court of Dinwiddie county 21st June, 1790, when apprehended on
suspicion of having forged or assisting in forging or signing certain
certificates issued by the authority of this Commonwealth, he has reason to
believe has been principally concerned in counterfeiting and passing such
certificates and public securities of this State, and offers a reward of One
Hundred and fifty Dollars for the apprehension and conveyance of the said
Benjamin Woodward to the District jail of Petersburg.

I also found the entry for Robt Dixon, Thos Poythress and Geo Poythress
testifying as to Benj Woodward's identity, the same text of which has already
been posted here. (same volume as above, pp 366-367)

The librarian said that Dinwiddie County records prior to 1830 were
almost entirely burned (as I'm sure you are well aware), and that the trial
was probably held in the Virginia General Court---the records of which also
burned.

I looked through the Va Gazette for an "article" about this, but didn't
find anything....probably because I wasn't looking in the right places.

In the "Bath Parish Register (Births, Deaths, &Marriages) 1827-1897 of
Dinwiddie County, VA & St Andrew's Pariish Vestry Book 1732-1797 of Brunswick
County, VA"
by William L. Hopkins, 1989 , pp.114-115

I found the following entry:
Meeting of Overseers of Poor at House of John Williams 30 Mar 1795

...many entries including:

Thomas Poythress for removing Henry Woodard.
John Aldridge for furnishing Henry Woodard meat and corn.
Jones Taylor for finding Henry Woodard corn.
John Nicholson for finding Henry Woodard corn.

I'm unsure of the relevance of this, perhaps there is none.....

More later,

Alice Dixon		08/12/1997 3:15:16
Bothwell Graveyard --- Dinwiddie County, VirginiaAs there was previous mention of the Bothwell Graveyard, I thought I
would post the following information, which I found in "Graveyards Dinwiddie
County, VA ; Frances Bland Randolph Chapter DAR, 1945"

Bothwell Graveyard Dinwiddie County, Virginia p 89

Two miles south of Ford Virginia, route 613(chance ?) west one miled on
private road in sight of the woods. It is well kept Vaults or stones mark
the graves. Owners ? - Date 1750
------
Here lies the (corpse ?) of Mary Poythress daughter of Capt, William Eppes
and wife to William Poythress Junr. 1750- Age 19 years
-------
In memory of Elizabeth Booth daughter of Capt J Hucks and wife of Robert C
Booth born May 8 1792 died October 10 1853. (Earth ?) never closed over a
gentler spirit or more devoted Christian.
-----
In memory of Robert Cryer Booth, He was born in the county of Dinwiddie the 3
of November 1790, and after having resided at this place during many years
of his life, He died the 13 of November 1850, He was brave, genrous (sic)
and good. His energy and industry procured for him wealth. His liberality,
elegant hospitality kindness and charity drew to him friends. His candor
honesty purity and integrity of character commanded the adoration of all.
His good deeds, the evidence of his many virtues survive him.
-----------
In memory of Thomas Moon, born in the county of Nottoway in June 1795. Died
December 9 1865. A man indeed in whom (..ere?) was a guile. And a (nober ?)
(nobler?) heart does not survive him.
------------
Here lies the mortal remains of John, William, and Herbert Cryer three
brothers who were born in the County of Prince George some time before the
American Revolution. This testimonial of affection and gratitude is placed
to their memory by their nephew Robert Cryer Booth.
-------------
In memory of Gilliam Booth jr Born 26 October 1781. Died in Christian
triumph. 27 July 1821

Alice Dixon		08/12/1997 3:48:40
Bland--RandolphHey Maynard-----coming out of the deep sea of Poythress and altho very
enjoyable and I do like a good mystery I would like to direct some queries.
I have a Mary Bland m. Thomas O Randolph in 1791 in Ky (I think). He was
b.1765, his f. John R. and on back to Robert and Rose Randolph of England in
1550. I've noted other Mary's but they don't seem to fit my dates or places.
Please some one come to my rescue. If you could see me typing here with only
my left hand I know you would take pity on me. Oh yes, my Mary and Thomas
then ended up in White Co. IL. and merged with the Robert Land family...for
100 years they lived in the Carmi area...my
f. Yerby Land born there in 1889 in Carmi IL......Thanks for any help
Marian Land Ferguson onefergy@aol.com		08/12/1997 4:23:40
Poythress Land in DinwiddieThis information may have already been posted , but at Libr of Va, I
found the following references.....

"Index of Lands and Patents and Va State Grants" in Dinwiddie County:
Carrefour of the Commonwealth by Richard L. Jones, 1976. pp 382-384

POYTHRESS, Charles 300 acres
August 20, 1745 P.B.
22, pg 420
On the lower side of the Old Field Branch of Butterwood Swamp adjoining land
of Frances Coleman

POYTHRESS, Captain Frances 387 acres
July 9, 1724
P.B. 12 pg 68
Upper or west side of the Butterwood Swamp beginning at the run upon the rock
at Beaver Dam and down Woodlief's Branch---P.G.P.B. pg.6

POYTHRESS, Francis 400 acres

September 22, 1722 P.B.
18, pg. 366
On the lower side of Tomaheton Creek between Lawrence, Richardson and George
Wainwright's lines

POYTHRESS, Francis 3887
acres
September 22, 1739 P.B.
18, pg.420
On the north side of Butterwood Swamp and also the upper side of Cook's
Branch thereof

POYTHRESS, John Junr. 841 acres
September 20, 1748 P.B.
22, pg 496
On the north side of Tommahitton Swamp beginning on John Mitchell's corner

POYTHRESS, Joshua 333
acres
June 22, 1722
P.B. 11, p.
131
On the north side of Moccosonecke creek along the line of William Jones

POYTHRESS, Peter 324
acres
August 5, 1751
P.B. 29, 509
On the south side of Butterwood Swamp adjoining William Poythress and others

POYTHRESS, William 531
acres
August 3, 1752
P.B. 31, pg
171
On the south side of Butterwood Swamp

POYTHRESS, Major William 200 acres
June 1, 1741
P.B. 19, pg
983
On the south side of Butterwood Swamp adjoining his old line

POYTHRESS, William 1572
acrea
June 1, 1741
P.B. 19,
pg 950
On the upper side of Tommaheton Swamp adjoining his old line

POYTHRIS, Robert
291 acres
September 28, 1728
P.B. 13, pg 377
On the lower side of Butterwood Swamp on Peter Wynne

POYTHRIS, Thomas 400
acres
June 20, 1733
P.B. 15,
pg. 59
On the lower or north side of Tomaheton Swamp

POYTHRIS, William
206 acres
July 9, 1724
P.B. 12,
pg 67
Both sides of the Reedy Branch of Butterwood swamp

POYTHRIS, William
1024 acres
June 20, 1733
P.B. 15, pg
39
On the south side of Tommaheton Swamp

POYTHRIS, William
297 acres
June 20, 1733
P.B. 15, pg
47
On both sides of the Reedy Branch of Butterwood Swamp adjoining his own land

POYTHRIS, William
381 acres
June 20, 1733
P.B. 15,
pg 61
On the south side of Butterwood Swamp adjoining John Clayton and Peter Wynn

POYTHRISS, Francis, Jr. 200
acres
September 28, 1728
P.B. 13, pg 439
Upper side of Butterwood Swamp at the mouth of the Governors Quarter Branch
adjoining his father's line

POYTHRYS, Joshua
382 acres
February 27, 1734
P.B. 15, pg.
437
On the south side of the Tomahitton Swamp adjoining William Poythrys

POYTHRYS, William
400 acres
March 24, 1734
P.B. 15,
pg 461
Near Sapponi Chappel adjoining Robert Bolling's line

I'm not sure if any of this is of any interest to anyone..... but there it
is!

Alice Dixon		08/12/1997 4:27:39
Re: Bothwell Graveyard --- Dinwiddie County, VirginiaAlbert R. TimsAlice,

This is a wonderful post re the Bothwell cemetery. Thank you. From the
land surveys it appears that the Booth family owned land just to the west
and south of the Poythress -- along the south side of Butterwood Creek.
Judy Speed hopes to visit Bothwell during her current tour through Virginia
and get some photographs for us. It would be interesting to learn how and
who these families came to share this small cemetery.

Best,
Al Tims

08/13/1997 2:05:21
Re: Poythress Land in DinwiddieAlbert R. TimsAlice,

Thanks for the post. We do have these LVA patents listed on the web page,
but your post reminded me about Charles Poythress. This is a fellow we
seem to know virtually nothing about. Well, I should say that I know
virtually nothing about, since others may have a handle on him.

What we need to set about doing is making full transcriptions of all these.
It is now quite easy to see the originals using in the LVA online digital
images, we just need to get a team of folks willing to take on the chore.

Again, thanks.

Best,
Al Tims

08/13/1997 2:10:49
List ActivityAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Some of you who belong to other lists may already know that RootsWeb has
been down for a system upgrade. During this period all posts were held for
distribution. Things appear to be returning to normal, but don't be
surprised if old posts arrive after newer ones. It will probably be a
couple more days before things return to normal.

We're still here and eager to get back to our tradition of lively exchange
:-).

Best,

Al Tims

08/13/1997 2:22:41
Technical QuestionIf an individual participates in an estate settlement "by right of his
wife"......does one
assume the individual's wife is deceased or could the wife still be alive?

Maynard

08/14/1997 5:29:55
Re: Poythress Land in DinwiddieAlice,
Thanks for the info. on Dinwiddie Land records. This could be the link I need
to connect my NC Poythress to the VA Poythress. We have a Charles in NC b.
1869 father Richard. The Charles you listed is the first one on the VA side
that I have seen. Since they all seem to name children after parents etc.
this could be our link. I will have to do some more research in Dinwiddie.

Bruce
Portermom1@aol.com		08/14/1997 6:57:01
Re: Poythress Land in DinwiddieALICE:

Hey, a bunch of gold stars for you for the land posts.....I told you we'd
hook you!

Talked to your Mom last night. She had a bunch of specifics for me to take a
look at since she knows I'll be at Augusta library on Monday and GDAH on,
probably, Wednesday. She sounded great.

Looks like you better take your tool kit home with you next time you
visit.....her printer is misbehaving.

Maynard

08/14/1997 8:53:13
Re: Technical QuestionStarrMaynard and group,
I would think either way. The dau could live too far to travel to
claim her own property -- which was her husband's anyway -- right? In
fact, come to think of it, this is how I "proved" some early Wilkes Co. GA
marriages. Linda

At 07:29 PM 8/14/97 -0400, VKRatliff@aol.com wrote:
>If an individual participates in an estate settlement "by right of his
>wife"......does one
>assume the individual's wife is deceased or could the wife still be alive?
>
>Maynard
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		08/15/1997 7:33:32
Inheritance Laws in VAFrom the Orange County California Genealogy Newsletter:

Prior to 1786, a will in VA did not have to name the wife or eldest son. A
widow received her 1/3 dower and eldest son received remaining 2/3, unless
otherwise specified in the father's will. Eldest son also received his
mother's share if she died. If eldest son had died, eldest grandson of the
whole blood became the heir-at-law, not the second son. If a man were
unmarried, his heir-at-law was his eldest brother, never his father or uncle.

In New England, the eldest son received a double portion of the estate, it
was called his birthright. If you should find a person has conveyed a 1/7
interest in the father's estate, you may conclude there were six surviving
children, each of whom received a 1/7 of the estate, except for the eldest
son, who received a 2/7 or double portion.

This inheritance of real estate was set by law, the will would list other
items.

Barbara (BPW)		08/15/1997 9:15:36
Re: Technical QuestionRandy JonesThe wife could still be alive; it just means he was participating on her
behalf for property she owned either from inheritance on her side of the
family, of through her dower interest - the property that came with her
at marriage.

- Randy

******************************************************************
* http://www.charweb.org *
Randy Jones, Webmaster * government - /government *
Charlotte's Web * transportation - /trans.html *
rjones@charweb.org * community theatre - /arts/theatre.html*
* genealogy - /gen *
******************************************************************

On Thu, 14 Aug 1997 VKRatliff@aol.com wrote:

> If an individual participates in an estate settlement "by right of his
> wife"......does one
> assume the individual's wife is deceased or could the wife still be alive?
>
> Maynard
>		08/16/1997 7:44:58
Re: some notes I picked up this trip.Albert R. TimsHelene,

Wow! Fantastic new information on the LA and AR Poythress. The Florida
connection for John W. Poythress gives us another mystery to solve.

I think Bud Poythress and Maynard Poythress are off to reunions in GA, but
I suspect they'll have keen interest in this information.

I'm in the middle of a major work assignment and simply haven't had much
free time recently. I'm listening; and hope to get back to more active
postings as soon as I can.

Best,
Al Tims

08/16/1997 11:45:20
BAIRD surname post on VA-RootsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Picked up the following from the VA-Roots list. I believe it may be of
interest to several of us.

Best,
Al Tims

Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 21:46:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Johncbaird@aol.com
Subject: Prince George and Surry County VA

Searching for info re: HANNAH HARRISON who married Ephraim Baird ca 1736 in
Martin's Brandon Parish, Prince George County VA. They also had land
holdings
in Surry County VA. Their children were: Thomas Baird of Petersburg;
Benjamin
Baird; John Baird and possibly James Harrison Baird and Isham Baird.
Information on any of the above would be appreciated. Who were the parents
of Hannah?

- ----------------------------		08/16/1997 11:51:23
some notes I picked up this trip.Marion & Helene PockrusWilliam Poythress, Militia; Georgia, entry rank; Corporal, exit rank;
Corporal
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Land Records, Al,AR,FL,La,MI,MN,OH,WI #255
Pre-1790 Colonial Records, #136

Robert Porteous Bearfort Distr, SC 1778
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2 patents for Peter Poythress in AR, one in the name of his widow Lilly,
dated Nov 27, 1820 (War of 1812 warrants)

2 patents for James A. Poythress in Natchitoches dated 1860.
2 patenbts for Peter Poythress in Arkansas, one in the name of his widow
Lilly, dated November 27, 1820(War of 1812 warrants)

Have more on the James A. Poythress in LA
James A. Poythres was in the 1860 Caddo Parish LA census.page 59 enumerated
July 27, 1860
408/413 he is 38 a farmer has $1000 pp/$1000 Real Estate He was born in
Georgia
He has a wife Martha A. age 30 born Virginia
daughter Emma J. age 8, born LA
daughter Mary 6, bornLA
William H. 4, born LA
and a John W. Poythress age 26 who is a carpenter who was born in
Florida(extra little quirk)_
They were married (film had a blemish but I think it was 1837)
Next door were living Hubbard Ford from Virginia, Bennett from NC John M.
Carn of SC

Hope some of this clarifies someone's work. By the way, I would like to
know who your earliest Poythress is that is documented in the USA.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Additionally, I found a great book-rather Marion did-called the
Alphabetical List of Private Claims which have been presented to the House
of Representatives from the First to the Thirty First Congress, exhibiting
tThe Action of Congress on each Claim with refereces to the Journals,
Reports, Bills & etc., Elucidating its Porgress. Compiled by order of the
House of Representatives. Published by Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc in
1970
Vol 111 from P to Z inclusive:
William PoythressHeirs-wanted commutation pay for Revolutionary Services
during the 23rd Congress, 1st Sessionl brought before the House as a
petition in Journal page 127 was referred to the Committee of the House on
Revolutionary Claims.
William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 23rd Congress in the 2nd
Session on Page 48 of the Journal again sent to the Committe of the House
on Revolutionary Claims.
William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 24th Congress in the 1st
Session as documented on the 942nd page of the Journal and again was again
referred to the Revolutionary Claims Committee.
____________________________________________________________________________
____________________

An interesting book called "A Century of Population Growth from the First
Census of the United States to the Twelfth Census 1790-1900" Published by
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1970 did not list any Poythress surnames on
Table 111 which was dealing with names represented by at least 100 white
persons by States and Territories at the First Census 1790. However, this
Census listed a lot of Parkhurst, Parckhurst, Parkhast, Parkherst and
Parkhurt. Also lots of Parkes, Parkess, Parkis and Pearks - gotta get my
dig in as it looks like I am going to have to shift my focus of research.
Hence the question above.

Helene		08/16/1997 11:54:53
ThanksCharles NealHelene,

Thanks for the amplifying info about both the book (which I will have to
look for in libraries that I visit) and the Caddo Parish, LA census (which
I will also try to get a copy of, next time I am in a library where I can
do so). Again, I appreciate your help.

BarbPoythressNeal 8/17/97		08/17/1997 3:14:30
Poythress Census Questions for HeleneCharles Neal8/17/97

Helene,

I found your recently picked-up notes very interesting. I am
curious about the Century of Population Growth book that you picked up:
you mentioned that Table 111 showed (by Poythress not being in the table)
that fewer than 100 Poythress persons were listed in the 1790 Census. Did
they have any similar name-distribution lists for the other Censuses, and
if so, when did Poythress make the list, as having 100 of us in all the
states & territories counted?

I also have a few questions, re the 1860 Caddo Parish, LA Census
listing you noted for the household of 38-yr old farmer James A. Poythress
who was born in GA, in which household there was also a 26-yr old carpenter
John Poythress who had been born in Florida:
It sounds like you reviewed the census film yourself, so I ask
several questions: Are you 100% confident that (1) the age for James A.
Poythress was 38; (2) the age for John Poythress was 26; and (3) the middle
initial of that John Poythress was "W" as you put in your Email note?
The reason I ask is that in May of this yr, I met & visited for a
couple of hours in the home of 73-yr-old Gene Poythress in Chattahoochee,
Gadsden County, FL, who is a delightful man. Gene KNOWS that his
grandfather was John P. Poythress, who died there in Gadsden Co, FL on
April 26, 1886, and who fought in the War Between the States in Company A
25th Regiment of the Louisiana Volunteers, Confederate States Army, as a
private who enlisted March 14, 1862 and who was discharged Aug.20, 1863.
His application for a pension from Florida (where he & his wife lived after
the War, and where MANY descendants live) shows that John P "enlisted on or
about the 1st day of March, 1862, in Captain Robinson's Company, county of
Caddo Parish, in the state of Louisiana, and that while in actual service
in said company, 25th Regiment, of the State of Louisiana, and in the line
of duty as such soldier, at Murphysborough [sic], State of Tennessee, on or
about the 31st day of December, 1862 I was wounded in the face and right
Shoulder, My Shoulder blade being Shriveled and My Collar bone being
dislocated" as a result of the wound then suffered. His discharge paper
dated Aug. 20, 1863, shows that he was born in Gadsden Co, FL, and is 29
years of age, 5'8" high, dark complexion, hazel eyes, dark hair, and by
occupation when enlisted a farmer. (Gene is also of a tanned complexion
though not as dark in complexion as, say, most Latinos I have met.) This
would mean that John P. Poythress was born in about 1834. The John
Poythress you found in the Caddo Parish, LA Census (age 26 in 1860 Census)
was born about the same time. And of course the James A. Poythress in that
same household (age 38 in 1860) would have been born in about 1822, in GA;
not a logical age to be the father, but maybe an older brother.
In trying to learn who John P. Poythress' father was, Gene had
gotten a bit of research done by a lady in Tallahassee, FL, who looked at
that same Caddo Parish, LA Census. She did NOT photocopy it, so Gene & I
do not have a copy to examine, but her notes listed all the same people
that you listed except that she listed the 26-yr-old carpenter as John M
rather than as John W.
Thus my questions asking you -- someone who I know has recently
seen the microfilm herself -- for your most sure reading of the details.
Appreciate your help.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/17/1997 12:08:16
Re: Poythress Census Questions for HeleneMarion & Helene PockrusBarbara:
Re the Century of Population growth book that I wish I owned, I only saw it
in Denton Library, I have to admit we did not look further for the names.
Marion says the census info was there for all census to 1900. However we
had time constraits and just looked at the 1790 census. This was a book of
statistics but very informative as to history as well. Thought I might try
to get a used copy.
Now as to the census of 1860 of James A. Poythress, I luckily have not
destroyed my scribbles, I note that it must have been a difficult one to
read as I went back over my writing and wrote a definite W but I must have
questioned it. John W. (as I read it and I probably had an M before that)
did not have a last name entered, so I assume he was a Poythress. I
wondered if the census taker might have goofed and that he was a brother to
Martha, but I felt like he must be a Poythress.
Yes, Jame's age was 38, and John's 26, and yes I should have gotten a
copy for someone. As I am not a Poythress, I guess that if anyone was
interested in it they would get a copy themselves.
Helene
----------		08/17/1997 12:53:38
Returned to the BARN!Just a few personal comments, please!

Have returned to the BARN - renewed in the Poythress spirit and stuffed
with Georgia BBQ - and tired.

Yound Alex and I returned back home at about 8:45 PM last evening from
Sylvania, GA and the Screven County, GA "Poythress Family Reunion". I wont
go into the "who was there" bit since this was actually a "Maynard's
connected bunch of Poythress" except to say there were more Bazemores and
Reddicks there than Poythresses! But they too are "Poythress connected", and
we had a great time and met a lot of wonderful KIN FOLKS of the "Kissing
Cousin" variety, and met some for the very FIRST time. Of course all were
new to young Alex though. And there were 5 who came from Millen, a town
about 20 miles west of Slyvania, that are from my Poythress clan, and
descendants of "Lee Alexander P.", brother of my grandfather and the
youngest son of John White Poythress.

Grandson Alex went over big, had a time of his live, he said, and I
believe now he has formally joined the group.

Side note: We all seemed to have arrived at the 'relatively small' Days Inn
in Sylvania within 5 minutes of one another, and as Alex and I walked into
the motel registration office, there were the Upchurch's (his mother a
Poythress) and Maynard and Jean, and Maynard's sister (her husband still
outside) registering. Of course the office being sort of small needless to
say, it was a bit crowded and I suppose there was the possibility of being
stepped on.

And as usual, Sylvania being a town one has to be "going to", cause
nobody passes through Sylvania since its not really on the way to any place,
it seems, so Old Bud didn't think it necessary to make reservations ahead of
time and you're right, no room was avaliable! So the nice laldy attendant
suggested another locally names motel on the north side of town. However,
Maynard was insistant to us that there was not another "acceptable motel" in
town that wasn't a "flea bag" and we should drive (south 20 miles) to
Statesboro where several named motel are located, so we did.

The first we saw was the Ramada -- "No vacancy" and the attendant said
you'll probably have a problem find one in town for this is graduation
weekend for Georgia Southern University, which is located in Statesboro! We
finally checked the Comfort Inn and the attendant said "we have ONLY 1 room
available, and since that was the actualy number we needed, we took it.

We checked in -- then drove back and joined the group at the Days Inn,
so a little later when dear Frances Reddick, the delightful widowed lady
hosting the reunion, asked "why in the world would you drive all the way to
Statesboro when there were other motels in Slyvania?" Keep in mind that I
had NEVER BEFORE in my life met Maynard Poythress personally, so me being
only 5' 9" tall myself, when we walked into the Day's Inn office and there
stook Maynard, in what looked to me like about "9 ft. 3 in(!)", I told
Frances that "when Maynard said 'get out of town' -- he--, Alex and I took
off!" Who was I to argue with that?

Well, maybe Maynard isn't quite that tall, but he certainly looked it in
that small room and he must be every bit of 6'-3" anyway.. And I wasn't
anxious to get stepped on, either! ............

They will be returning to their KY BARN the later part of the week, I
believe he said. They were going from there to Augusta to help Jean's
mother's celebrate her "84th birthday", before returning home and Maynard was
to try and dig up some more "good clean Poythress dirt" while in Augusta!
Happy hunting fellow!~

All for now, folks, so take care and love one another.

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.coml - 8/18/97 1800 hours/ 6:00PM)		08/18/1997 4:07:42
Poitras?A picture of Albert POITRAS, age 82, of Limestone, Maine is in today's
Washington Post style section. Nothing in the article about him; just a
picture.
jb		08/18/1997 5:03:29
Va. & Tn. tripwayne scruggsTo Poythress List,
We have just returned from our trip to Va.& Tn.I sent pictures of Flower
Dew Hundred to Al, along with a pamplet from Blandford Church & some
photos of graves in the cemetary. I checked at the cemetary office for
more info on the graves. The one of Col.William Poythress who died in
1763 & his wife Sarah Poythress who died in 1730 at the age of 48.
William was 68. These records were all burned during the war.I did find
more records for other Poythress in the Blandford Cemetary. Maybe
someone knows of these people. Susan M. Poythress death Nov.18,1877,
Minnie B.Poythress death Nov.8,1928, Benj. Poythress death July 27,1865,
John W.Poythress death Aug.28,1852 ,Mollie Poythress death Oct.29,1859,
John T. Poythress, Louisa O.Poythress, William D. Poythress. There were
a lot of Bollings, Cocke & Blands buried there.In Henderson,N.C. at
Elmswood Cemetary was David Poythress b. Jan.26,1800 d. Sept.6,1876. I
have pictures.Could not find his wife, Mary Speed Dortch or Sally Dortch
and there was not a plot for the Dortch family there. In the same plot
with David, was India Poythress b. 4-3-1852 d. 9-12-1924, Charles
V.{?}Poythress b.12-16-1870 d. 8-19-1908 (a very large monument)
C.D.Poythress b. 7-15-1848 d. 7-29-1892. There were small foot stones
only that read, R.L.P., C.B.P., & one reading Infant. Another grave

Effie P.Mustain b. 10-16-1881 d. 11-13-1946. In a plot across the road
was a big Headstone in the center of plot with Poythress on it. Buried
there were, Charles David Poythress b. 8-26-1895 d.2-07-1944, Henry
P.Poythress b. 3-7-1894 d. 8-26-1938, Mary E.Poythress b. 11-04-1869 d.
10-03-1930,
J.S.Poythress b. 9-17-1871 d. 10-18-1918, Jane P. Mustian b.12-14-1896
d.11-05-1984,husband R.L.Mustian b.11-23-1891 d.5-26-1918.That's another
name for us to ponder on (Mustian)I have pictures of all of these.Some
one had ask about a Charles Poythress In N.C.,could one of these be the
one? I have a picture of Susan Peachy Poythress Willcox.I found the
property of Bothwell but could not locate the cemetary.I wanted to look
for Lewis Poythress's grave in the Blackridge area of Brunswick co. Va.,
but had no clue to where it was.There is a Davis/Poythress Cemetary in
Broanax,Brunswick Co,Va. I thought he may be buried there. I plan on
writing to try & get Information on this.By the Way, the Elmswood
Cemetary was once privately owned. The records were kept very badly, so
it was turned over to the city. The city has all the records now. The
old ones, like David Poythress has very little info on the card. We were
escorted from the city records office to the cemetary and then were
taken to the graves. Very nice people.Maybe Al can use some of the
photos on the web site.
All for now,
Judy Speed Scruggs		08/18/1997 6:18:38
Re: Va. & Tn. tripCraig R. ScottI did find
>more records for other Poythress in the Blandford Cemetary. Maybe
>someone knows of these people.

Susan M. Poythress death Nov.18,1877, is my ggggrand mother. The record of
her marriage to Benjamin Poythress prior to 1849 (based on the death of an
infant son) has not been located, her maiden name has not been found.

>Minnie B.Poythress death Nov.8,1928,

Benj. Poythress death July 27,1865,
my ggggrandfather, a huckster who lived in Petersburg. There is no evidence
of service in the Civil War, but there are reciepts for providing bandages
to hospitals in 1863 in Provost Marshal records.

>John W.Poythress death Aug.28,1852
a child of Susan and Benjamin that died young.

,Mollie Poythress death Oct.29,1859,
>John T. Poythress, Louisa O.Poythress, William D. Poythress.

I assume that William D. Poythress is the William found in the personal
property tax lists of Petersburg. I have never been able to prove a
connection between William and Benjamin. The rest I have no clue.

Craig

>

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		08/18/1997 8:12:41
Poitras?Charles NealThere are LOTS of Poitras folks in the French-speaking areas of Canada and
in the New Orleans area. The name is also very prominently listed in the
Family History Library's I.G.I.

BPN

08/18/1997 9:01:10
Returned to the BARN!Charles NealBud,

Thoroughly enjoyed the rundown on the Reunion trip!! Wish I could've been
there too.

All my best to you & yours,
BPN 8/18/97		08/18/1997 9:01:13
Earliest PoythressCharles NealHelene,

If you just want to know which Poythress is the first one that any of us
have found to have been in Colonial America, that would be Francis
Poythress as far as I know. Don't have the exact date handy, but somewhere
around 1632 sticks in my mind. I think Al has info about him on the web
page.

BPN 8/18/97		08/18/1997 9:01:16
VA & TN: Good Job!Charles NealJudy & Wayne,

Good job on your Poythress-hunting. I am sure that Barbara Poythress Wolfe
will fill you in on the Henderson, NC ones you found. ALL of them are in
her family tree, I am pretty sure.

Thanks so much for sharing your good results with the List. Would love to
send you a check to cover some duplicate photos of all the gravemarkers, &
postage to send them to me, if you are willing to get some duplicates made
for me?

Glad you had a safe trip and such super service by the folks in Henderson.

Barbara 8/18/97 BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/18/1997 9:01:20
Re: Poitras?Marion & Helene PockrusHey Maynard-Anything that starts with "P" right?
Helene

----------
> From: Jbv@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Poitras?
> Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 5:03 PM
>
> A picture of Albert POITRAS, age 82, of Limestone, Maine is in today's
> Washington Post style section. Nothing in the article about him; just a
> picture.
> jb
>		08/18/1997 9:37:26
Fw: [TN] PETROSS/PETTROSSMarion & Helene Pockrus----------
> From: Billy N Pettross
> To: TNROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TN] PETROSS/PETTROSS
> Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 7:17 PM
>
> Anyone interisted in the Petross/Pettross line check out my web page at
> http://members.aol.com/BillyP6944/Pettross.html
>
> Billy Pettross
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> List problems?
> Check
> your WELCOME message FIRST
> http://copper.ucs.indiana.edu/~stephenl/genealog.htm#common SECOND
> then contact stephenL@indiana.edu
> (Not being unfriendly - just swamped with mail.)		08/18/1997 9:56:20
Re: some notes I picked up this trip.Helene, thanks for the update. The Louisiana Poythress was especially
interesting. I'm not certain what is meant by your question. However, I
will guess. The earliest Poythress which I have personally documented as
being my personal ancestor is Lewis "Sr.", of which you have seen much
traffic on the Poythress list. Lewis is believed to have been born about
1760-1770, likely in Prince George, Dinwiddie or Brunswick Co., Va.
-lpb

On Sat, 16 Aug 1997 11:54:53 -0600 "Marion & Helene Pockrus"
writes:
> William Poythress, Militia; Georgia, entry rank; Corporal, exit rank;
> Corporal
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Land Records, Al,AR,FL,La,MI,MN,OH,WI #255
> Pre-1790 Colonial Records, #136
>
> Robert Porteous Bearfort Distr, SC 1778
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> 2 patents for Peter Poythress in AR, one in the name of his widow
>Lilly,
> dated Nov 27, 1820 (War of 1812 warrants)
>
>2 patents for James A. Poythress in Natchitoches dated 1860.
>2 patenbts for Peter Poythress in Arkansas, one in the name of his
>widow
>Lilly, dated November 27, 1820(War of 1812 warrants)
>
>Have more on the James A. Poythress in LA
>James A. Poythres was in the 1860 Caddo Parish LA census.page 59
>enumerated
>July 27, 1860
>408/413 he is 38 a farmer has $1000 pp/$1000 Real Estate He was born
>in
>Georgia
>He has a wife Martha A. age 30 born Virginia
>daughter Emma J. age 8, born LA
>daughter Mary 6, bornLA
>William H. 4, born LA
>and a John W. Poythress age 26 who is a carpenter who was born in
>Florida(extra little quirk)_
>They were married (film had a blemish but I think it was 1837)
>Next door were living Hubbard Ford from Virginia, Bennett from NC John
>M.
>Carn of SC
>
>Hope some of this clarifies someone's work. By the way, I would like
>to
>know who your earliest Poythress is that is documented in the USA.
>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Additionally, I found a great book-rather Marion did-called the
>Alphabetical List of Private Claims which have been presented to the
>House
>of Representatives from the First to the Thirty First Congress,
>exhibiting
>tThe Action of Congress on each Claim with refereces to the Journals,
>Reports, Bills & etc., Elucidating its Porgress. Compiled by order of
>the
>House of Representatives. Published by Genealogical Publishing Co.,
>Inc in
>1970
>Vol 111 from P to Z inclusive:
>William PoythressHeirs-wanted commutation pay for Revolutionary
>Services
>during the 23rd Congress, 1st Sessionl brought before the House as a
>petition in Journal page 127 was referred to the Committee of the
>House on
>Revolutionary Claims.
>William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 23rd Congress in the 2nd
>Session on Page 48 of the Journal again sent to the Committe of the
>House
>on Revolutionary Claims.
>William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 24th Congress in the 1st
>Session as documented on the 942nd page of the Journal and again was
>again
>referred to the Revolutionary Claims Committee.
>____________________________________________________________________________
>____________________
>
>An interesting book called "A Century of Population Growth from the
>First
>Census of the United States to the Twelfth Census 1790-1900" Published
>by
>Genealogical Publishing Co., 1970 did not list any Poythress surnames
>on
>Table 111 which was dealing with names represented by at least 100
>white
>persons by States and Territories at the First Census 1790. However,
>this
>Census listed a lot of Parkhurst, Parckhurst, Parkhast, Parkherst and
>Parkhurt. Also lots of Parkes, Parkess, Parkis and Pearks - gotta get
>my
>dig in as it looks like I am going to have to shift my focus of
>research.
>Hence the question above.
>
>Helene
>
>		08/18/1997 12:33:23
Re: Welcome home!Marion & Helene PockrusThe reports have been so great that it almost made me want to become a
Poythress but the POCKRUS families are alive and well. We've been to 2
reunions of the 3 and are going to the third one next week in Bossier
Parish, LA.What has been the highlights is to visit with the 90 plus year
olds who have such marvelous stories. Sadly, however try as you will, the
younger generation are not much interested. They come to eat ,then leave.
Just a couple of them that are interested in following the work of keeping
their history. The old timers sit and talk for hours. We were able to
find one new Pockrus who lost his roots when his father was killed during
WWII. He was not able to go this year due to health reasons but he sent me
a bio that I read to the Denton bunch who were quite excited and wanted his
address. He is seeing family now. He was excited. Last he heard from any
of them was in 1963, just due to circumstances, not neglect. The one we
will see in Bossier Parish called "BIG MAMA" thought she was the last one
in the world. She will be 94 and sits and makes things and quilts lap
robes for"the old people in the nursing home "nearby, where Lyn Poythress's
wive's grandfather Mr. Davis is residing at the present time. We are
looking forward to seeing these people next week. Got a great deal of
material from Mrs Davis that verifies our own information but also gives
us some additional information.
While in Texas, we met in Grapevine a delightful researcher who was
working with 2 other gals on the wife of our early Pockrus?Parcus in AL.
She came in loaded with books(3 huge binders) with the material on the 3
lines that we ware both researching. She had some documentation that our
John Pockrus we have been looking for who should be the father of our Rufus
in LA, did indeed go to Marshalll Co., AL for a short time just prior to
going to LA. He happened to sign a document that she had on another family
and there was a Drake family there that should have a daughter that would
be great grandmaPockrus(possibly a Cherokee Indian). We saw it just in
passing and I almost squealed outloud. Now if we could stay home long
enough to research Marshall Co., AL again. I also was able to track down
another Pockrus who is difficult to get together with as she is the loan
official that Hillary delt with(won't say the big L word)in Arkansas and
she is so busy with the hearings that I can't get any time with she and her
husband at the present.
Anyhow, our researching in these areas has been productive and enjoyable.
I am enjoying the reports on your Poythress groups. The Southern
Hospitality is alive and well! Love em!
Helene		08/19/1997 6:21:47
Worcestershire Wills & Castlemorton Parish RegistersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the latest information from Liz Jack in England. Still, no
Francis, but some interesting new locations for us to explore.

Best,
Al Tims

Worcestershire Wills, Volume 2, 1601 - 1652

1611 Isabell Pewtrace widow Castlemorton W.I.
1618 Thomas Pewtrace yeoman Castlemorton A. & W.I.
1630 William Pewtress yeoman Castle Morton W.I.
1646 John Pewtris yeaman (sic) Welland W.I.

Castlemorton Parish Registers

Baptisms:

1600 Feb 15 Thomas Pewtresse, son of William Pewtresse
1608 Aug 13 William son of John and Elizabeth Pewtresse
1610 Jan 13 Anne daughter of John and Elizabeth Pewtresse
1613 Oct 2 John son of John and Elizabeth Pewtresse
1615 Oct 23 Mary daughter of Ricahrd(?) Pewtresse and Kathleen
1616 Jun 1 Grace daughter of John Pewtres
1618 Feb Thomas son of John Pewtresse and Elizabeth his wife
1619 Mar William son of Thomas Pewtresse
1637 Oct 17 Edward son of Thomas Pewtres		08/19/1997 6:30:05
Re: Poitras?Ken PooleMaynard, I have Maynard, and Rogers, who married into a Bray family, any of
these names sound familiar? Ken

08/19/1997 6:35:42
Re: Welcome home!Charles NealHelene,

What a marvelous posting and what super Reunions! Enjoyed the stories.

BPN

08/19/1997 8:19:35
Re: Poitras?Ken Poole, Re Maynard, etc. as surnames.

Hi, Ken, unfortunately none of them ring a bell. I got "Maynard" when my
mother (an educated city lady) heard the folks in Sylvania, Ga. call my
father John Maner P. (correctly), thought it was just country folks slurring
the name and named me Maynard, Jr.

She found it out few years ago and was mortified....wanted to pay to change
it and all that. I just politely said I been toting it around too many years
now and don't need my routine upset.

Best,

Maynard, Maner, whichever strikes your fancy:).

08/19/1997 9:55:58
Reunions and TravelsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The recent posts with personal accounts of recent reunions and on-site
visits are fantastic -- a real joy to read. We are fortunate to have
subscribers (cousins) willing to share these experiences with us. To me,
these are occasions that bring real meaning to this work.

Eagerly await Judy's photos. I'll make sure they get up on the web pages
straight away.

I believe the Bothwell cemetery is on private property -- tucked away up an
unpaved road. Depending on the current owners I suppose, it might well be
overgrown. I'm interested in the Booth connection for a couple of reasons.

1. My USGS maps show another Booth cemetery just to the west of the
Bothwell site. We know that the Booth family was living just to the west
of the Poythress boys (William, Thomas, Robert) circa 1720s.

2. I recently received a post from someone who said that there might be
some evidence that our original Francis Poythress actually married a Booth.
I haven't seen the proof yet, but the fact that we have Booth buried in
what would have been a Poythress family cemetery (later called Bothwell) is
worthy of our attention. Perhaps Pamela Hurak can help us here. Pamela is
doing some wonderful work on the cemeteries in this area.

Again, thanks to all of you who shared your reunion and travel stories.

Best,

Al Tims		08/19/1997 10:51:21
Latest From EnglandAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Note: I posted this much earlier in the day, but it seems to have gone
missing :-). Pardon me if it eventually arrives. Best, Al Tims

---------------------
Below is the latest information from Liz Jack in England. Still, no
Francis, but some interesting new locations for us to explore.

Worcestershire Wills, Volume 2, 1601 - 1652

1611 Isabell Pewtrace widow Castlemorton W.I.
1618 Thomas Pewtrace yeoman Castlemorton A. & W.I.
1630 William Pewtress yeoman Castle Morton W.I.
1646 John Pewtris yeaman (sic) Welland W.I.

Castlemorton Parish Registers

Baptisms:

1600 Feb 15 Thomas Pewtresse, son of William Pewtresse
1608 Aug 13 William son of John and Elizabeth Pewtresse
1610 Jan 13 Anne daughter of John and Elizabeth Pewtresse
1613 Oct 2 John son of John and Elizabeth Pewtresse
1615 Oct 23 Mary daughter of Ricahrd(?) Pewtresse and Kathleen
1616 Jun 1 Grace daughter of John Pewtres
1618 Feb Thomas son of John Pewtresse and Elizabeth his wife
1619 Mar William son of Thomas Pewtresse
1637 Oct 17 Edward son of Thomas Pewtres		08/19/1997 11:13:30
Welcome home!Bud,
Great to hear about your Poythress reunion and that you and your grandson had
such an enjoyable and safe trip!!
Ay! Barbara (BPW)

08/19/1997 12:25:30
email returnedwayne scruggsBarbara Wolfe,
Sorry to use this address,but I have emailed you 3 messages and they
were all returned. I tried again today and the same thing happened. Are
you having trouble? My other mail has been getting through to people.
Let me know. I will try to email you again tomorrow.
Judy		08/20/1997 4:26:27
Re. Latest from EnglandPat & Maurice CreweDear Liz and all,
What a co-incidence, we have just returned from a holiday near Newent,
staying about a mile, as the crow flies, from Ploddy House, the property
of John Poydresse mentioned in the land deed of 1649, now on the web
pages. This is the John who was probably the father of Francis bapt. 1609
in Newent and who may have founded the Poythress dynasty in America.
I have always thought that my earliest ancestor, Christopher Poydras,
should be the brother of Francis. The only IGI entry for the bapt. of a
Christopher was 1616 in the city of Worcester, so we made a visit to the
Worcestershire & Herefordshire Record Office and looked at the original
entry. To my delight the parish register of St Swithin, Worcester read
"1616 Item Christopher the sonne of John Pewdreies of Newent bapt. iiii
September".
So there is a connection between the Glos. and Worcs. families, although
this John must have returned to Newent as Christopher was there in 1647.
It also seems to be proof that "Poy" and "Pew" were probably pronounced
much the same.
Whilst in the Record Office we looked at the 4 wills you listed Liz,
1611-1646. There were no mentions of Francis or of Newent. We didn't
take photocopies of them but we did take down all the relevant details. I
am not very hopeful of any connections but I haven't yet had time to
think about them thoroughly.
Best wishes,
Pat		08/20/1997 8:49:46
Re. Latest from EnglandCharles NealDear Pat,

What delightful news you came back with. Good show! Would love to get a
copy of the relevant details from your notes of the 4 wills.

Barbara Poythress Neal 8/20/97
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/20/1997 9:39:36
Re: Latest From EnglandAlbert R. TimsForwarding this from Elise.

Hi "Cuzins":

I've been listening to all the chat about the GA Poythress group.
Great work! I'm further up the tree with Elizabeth Poythress.

I was doing some hunting of my Scot ancestry and came up with a site
called
www.electricscotland.com. (Tim, I don't know how to set up a link
yet.Maybe you would like to post it.) There was a PORTEUS Clan with a
short
comment on John Porteus, Capt. of Edinburgh City guard in 15th Century
PEEBLESHIRE and Fife!! Also under www.house-of-tartan.scotland.net, there
is
a tartan for PORTEUS. Have fun!

Lisette (Elise Courtney H. Markham)
wry@aye.net		08/20/1997 10:17:24
Pocahantas descendentsI have been some what limited on correspondence lately--shoulder surgery--but
am getting back in the swing of things and checking old mail. Want ton
follow up on what I can share with you, Ken. I have used the two Pocahantas
books for a lot of info one " Biographical Sketches" by Wyndham Robertson (?
a descendent) and the other the very large book using Wyndhams info for and
re done by the Pocahantas Foundation--assume you are familiar with both.
Anyway I've created a tree more or less showing the descent down to my family
and also have a chart from my Family tree entries. I show Col. Richard
Randolph b. abt 1690 and THomas Randoph as brothers. And Richards wife was
Jane Bolling of course g.g. of Pocahantas. And my descendents come stait down
from Thomas. But I am also convinced that his g. son Thomas, who m. Mary
Bland (daughter of John?), also has a more direct line to Pocahantas but have
not been able to connect the Blands with the ones in the Poythtress family.
There is my delema--can you or anyone help?. Also can I send you
anything--preferable via snail mail? By the way again Mary's daughter,
Prudence, m. a William Cross adn the Cross faimlies are also shown as
decendents. Quite a puzzlement. Marian Land Ferguson--onefergy@aoal.com		08/20/1997 11:05:19
PORTIS in Halifax Co., NCCharles NealLea Dowd & all,

I, too, have puzzled previously over the Robert Portis who was the witness
in 1761 in Halifax Co, NC to the Thomas Davis transfer of 520 acres to
David Marshal and Mary his wife (maybe she was a Davis, hence the "natural
love and good will" that Davis felt for them). I have no further
identifying data for Robert Portis but would welcome seeing any other info
on him.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com 8/21/97		08/21/1997 3:41:47
Fwd: [Fwd: URGENT VIRUS ALERT]---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: hayesm1@erols.com (Melba Hayes)
Reply-to: hayesm1@erols.com
To: lithic@getonthe.net (Tom Paleo), SME987@aol.com (Stephanie Elgert),
sflynn@imsweb.net (Sean Flynn), lightfoot@unidial.com (Patricia Lightfoot),
rittersl@gte.net (Pat Ritter), drmoreau@erols.com (Norm Moreau),
Marion.V.Depriest.1@gsfc.nasa.gov (Marion DePriest), lynn@stsci.edu (Lynn
Bogovich), Mellon_KR@egginc.com (Ken Mellon),
gomezs@pcnet1.ascs.aro.allied.com (Gomez, Sue (Towson)),
diana.gumas@mail.mei.com (Diana Gumas), voigtd@clmmp001.atsc.allied.com
(David Voigt), bren1@ix.netcom.com (Brenda Hinesley), Beetle72@aol.com
Date: 97-08-21 17:14:27 EDT

Just passing this attachment on to everyone I know who uses the
internet. Melba Hayes

>X-Sender: jnace@mail.hst.nasa.gov
>X-Priority: 1 (Highest)
>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:37:56 -0400
>To: all_HST_personnel@hst.nasa.gov,all_ngst_personnel@hst.nasa.gov
>From: Jolyn Nace
>Subject: URGENT VIRUS ALERT
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>>X-Sender: meleszcz@pop400.gsfc.nasa.gov
>>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:17:55 -0500
>>To: John.H.Campbell.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Frank.J.Cepollina.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Nicholas.G.Chrissotimos.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Martin.A.Davis.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Joseph.A.Dezio.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Martin.J.Donohoe.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Dino.Machi.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Angelina.A.Hewitt.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Thomas.A.LaVigna.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Harry.G.McCain.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Ann.C.Merwarth.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> James.V.Moore.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Arthur.F.Obenschain.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> John.E.Oberright.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Arlene.F.Peterson.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Phillip.A.Sabelhaus.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Dale.F.Schulz.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Christopher.J.Scolese.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>Bernard.D.Seery.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Diane.E.Williams.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>Anthony.B.Comberiate.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> John.J.Wolff.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Richard.J.Lawrence.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Bobby.L.German.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, James.S.Barrowman.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Bruce.W.Clark.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, W.James.Adams.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Barbara.L.Blom.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Mary-Eileen.Leszcz.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Cheryl.A.Powell.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Carol.R.Dibble.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Linda.D.Barbour.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>Dorothy.A.Burkholder.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Joyce.M.Buswell.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Lisa.R.Carroll.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Deborah.A.Cusick.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Deborah.Hinkle.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Sheron.L.Fowler.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Jeaneene.Y.Grisham.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Sheila.A.Hall.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Deborah.K.Hamby.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Kathryn.K.Hanlon.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Cheryl.A.Carr-Huggins.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Terilyn.Jennings.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Esther.C.Johnson.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Maureen.J.Menton.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>Lou.Etta.M.Milstead.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Ronnice.N.Sturdivant.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Virginia.M.Thompson.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Kimberley.A.Wilson.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Paula.L.Wood.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Tina.M.Wright.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Gail.E.Dellagatta.2@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Donna.J.Mudd.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Jacieda.T.Briscoe.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> dpicker@pop400.gsfc.nasa.gov, Maggie.Hagen.1@gsfc.nasa.gov,
>> Joanna.L.Gavaghan.1@gsfc.nasa.gov, Jolyn.R.Nace.1@gsfc.nasa.gov
>>From: Deborah Hinkle (by way of
>Mary-Eileen Leszcz )
>>
>>WARNING!!!!!! If you receive an e-mail titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT
>>>> open it!
>>>> It will erase EVERYTHING on your hard drive! Send this letter out to
>>>> as many people you can.......this is a new virus and not many people
>>>> know about it!
>>>> This information was received this morning from IBM, please share it
>>>> with anyone that might access the Internet.
>>>> Also,
>>>> If anyone receives mail entitled; PENPAL GREETINGS! please delete it
>>>> WITHOUT reading it!! This is a warning for all Internet users - there
>>>> is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet through an e-mail
>>>> message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!".
>>>> DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!!
>>>> This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are
>>>> interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is
>>>> too late. The trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot
>>>> sector of your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is
>>>> a self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will
>>>> AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is present in
>>>
>>>> YOUR mailbox!
>>>> This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential to
>>>> DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your in box, and
>>>> who's mail is in their in box and so on. If this virus keeps getting
>>>> passed, it has the potential to do a great deal of DAMAGE to computer
>>>> networks worldwide!!!!
>>>> Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" as soon as you
>>>> see it! And pass this message along to all of your friends, relatives
>>>> and the other readers of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you
>>>> are on so that they are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!!
>>>> Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be stopped.
>>>> PASS THIS ON TO YOUR FRIENDS!!! WARNING !!!
>>>> There is a new virus going arround in the last couple of days!!! DO
>>>> NOT open or even look at any mail that you get that says: "Returned or
>>>> Unable to Deliver" This virus will attach itself to your computer
>>>> components and render them useless. Immediately delete any mail items
>>>> that says this. AOL has said this is a very danderous virus, and there
>>>> is NO remedy for it at this time, Please Be Careful, And forward to
>>>> all your on-line friends A.S.A.P.
>>>> Forward this A.S.A.P. to every single person you know!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>**********************************
>>* Debbie Hinkle *
>>* NASA/GSFC *
>>* TRMM Project/Code 490 *
>>* Phone: 301-286-7593 *
>>* Fax: 301-286-1704 *
>>* Deborah.Hinkle.1@gsfc.nasa.gov *
>>**********************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

*****************************************************************
Francine Crum
Hubble Space Telescope Program
Nations Bank Building, Suite 200, Room 308
Phone:301-901-6088 E-mail:Crum.Francine@lmmail.hst.nasa.gov
*****************************************************************		08/21/1997 3:47:42
Poytress Census InformationGwen HesterHello, my name is Gwen Hester. I am not connected to your family, but I
came across some information that maybe someone in your group could use.
In the 1855 state census for Sumter County Alabama there is a James E.
Poytress with family and an N. T. Poytress who lived alone. Hope this
info can help someone.		08/21/1997 4:42:56
Poytress Census InformationCharles NealGwen Hester,

Thank you SO much for this info from the 1855 state census for Sumter
County, AL. That is my very own family which you located. J. E. was my
gggfather; the other one was probably one of his eldest sons.

Can you please tell me where you saw the 1855 State Census info, so that I
can locate a copy of it for myself? That would be one of the very few
times N.T. (or N.F. as I have seen his name before) can be seen on any
record, since he died not many years later.

Did that State Census show any names of other household members, or even
any indication of how many other household members there were, by age &
sex? I would like to get all they had about both households, including any
real estate value or occupation or indication of education or whatever.

Again, thank you SO MUCH !!

Barbara Poythress Neal 8/21/97
73622.2543@compuserve.com
OR
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/21/1997 5:05:07
PORTEOUSCraig R. ScottBeing the Clan Scott Genealogist and past president of the Council of
Scottish Clans and Associations means that I have an extensive library of
surname material in my library. Probably my favorite book for Scottish
Surnames is George Black's "Surnames of Scotland." It says:

PORTEOUS. A south country surname. The family of Porteous of Hawkshaw, an
old family in Peblesshire. John Pertus of Glenkirk in record 14433, also
owned lands in Fife. George Portwis held the lands of Glenkirk in 1478-84.
John Portewis had a charter in 1513 in the lands of Glenkirk and Quhitslaid,
and Sir William Portus was chaplain in the parish church of S. Bega of
Kilbucho, 1550. James Pourtes, glover, in Edinburgh, 1670. Perhaps of local
orgin from some place like "Porthouse." The derivation from Scots _porteus_,
a catalogue or list of persons indicted to appear befroe the Justice-Ayre,
is untenable. Pertuuss 1549, Porteouse 1701, Portews 1479, Portowis 1454,
Portows 1561, Portuis 1478, Portuiss 1563, Portuus 1527, Portuuss 1549. - p.669

There are no "Pew" or "Poy" derived surnames in the book.

Still looking for the parents of Benjamin Poythress and his wife Susan M. of
Petersburg, both buried Blanford Cemetery.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		08/21/1997 6:32:42
Re: Latest From EnglandKen PooleNow I think that makes sense, have you looked at the number of Scots in VA?
Many of them. AH mon. It would seem the Scotsman claimed the new land for
his own.
Ken

At 11:17 PM 8/20/97 -0500, Albert R. Tims wrote:
>Forwarding this from Elise.
>
>Hi "Cuzins":
>
>I've been listening to all the chat about the GA Poythress group.
>Great work! I'm further up the tree with Elizabeth Poythress.
>
> I was doing some hunting of my Scot ancestry and came up with a site
>called
>www.electricscotland.com. (Tim, I don't know how to set up a link
>yet.Maybe you would like to post it.) There was a PORTEUS Clan with a
>short
>comment on John Porteus, Capt. of Edinburgh City guard in 15th Century
>PEEBLESHIRE and Fife!! Also under www.house-of-tartan.scotland.net, there
>is
>a tartan for PORTEUS. Have fun!
>
>Lisette (Elise Courtney H. Markham)
>wry@aye.net
>
>
>		08/21/1997 6:45:14
1587 Reference to Francis Poyllis (or Poytris)Albert R. TimsSubject:
A possible Poytris?
Date:
Fri, 22 Aug 1997 00:15:52 +0100
From:
Elizabeth Jack
To:
Albert R Tims

Hi Al

For what it's worth ....

Whilst in the Bristol library today, looking for details for another
client, I came across a book called 'The Overseas Trade of Bristol'
which included a list of 'Prohibited Goods Exported to Spain from
Bristol 1587'. It included:

'Francis Poyllis, merchaunt, transported a shippe called a Pellican unto
the same place [Jamounte] and with like commodyties [fish, butter,
leather, lead, powder] to the value of 1200li.'

I wondered whethr the Poyllis could be a transcription error, that maybe
it was Poytris instead.		08/21/1997 7:49:34
Bristol connection to Thomas Poythres, Merchant, Virginia (1654-1686)Albert R. TimsFrom: Elizabeth Jack
Hi again

Forgot to include this reference as well - again from Bristol.

'Bristol register of Servants sent to Foreign Plantations 1654 - 1686'

Ann Fuller of Sanford (sic), Glos, to Thomas Poytres, Merchants, 5years,
Virginia.

Ann was the servant, Thomas the master.

Bye
Liz
Elizabeth Jack : ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk
Hidden Heritage : http://www.hidden-heritage.com		08/21/1997 7:52:25
Re Servant to VA & PoyllisCharles Neal8/21/97

Liz,

Enjoyed your two posts. I'm sure the Thomas Poytres, Merchants, in VA,
receiving the servant Ann Fuller, belongs with us. Do you know why the
"sic" after "Sanford" for the benefit of those of us who don't know how the
town should be spelled?

I'm not so sure the Francis Poyllis merchant fellow listed in the
'Prohibited Goods Exported to Spain from Bristol 1587' with the 1200
lire-worth of products would be ours, but perhaps so. Just curious: any
idea what part of Spain "Jamounte" is near?

Thanks again for everything you keep turning up for us!

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		08/21/1997 8:50:30
affidavit John Morris Elizabeth Edwards et alI am responding to an inquiry between Maynard and Al Tims re: the actual
affidavit of a transaction between Jonh Morris and Elizabeth Edwards......

I went to the Library of Virginia hoping to find this information for
you......I found the marriage bond: Order Book 2, pps. 506-507

Know all men by these presents that we John Morris Meredith
Poythres----are held firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of Virginia in the
sum of fifty pounds current money of Virginia to which payment well and truly
to be made, we bind ourselves and each of our heirs Executors and
Administrator jointly and severaly firmly by these presents sealed with our
seales and dated this 22nd Day of August 1782.
The condition of this obligation is such that whereas there is a
marriage suddenly intended to be solemnized between the above bound John
Morris & Elizabeth Edwards daughter of Thomas Edward deceased-----
If therefore there be no lawful cause to obstruct the said marriage
then this obligation be void...

Sealed and delivered
his
in the presence of John
+ Morris (seal)
Griffen Stith
mark

his

Meredith
+ Poythres (seal)

mark

Unfortunately, the affidavit mentioned in the post from Knorr's book re:
a statement of the age (23), and residence (at the home of his father Thomas
Poythress), of Elizabeth Edwards is missing from the microfiche reels at the
Library of Virginia........ I was told that either this ( the affidavit) was
lost between times of the reference by Knorr, and the microphotography, or
that it is in the old library with a bunch of other unassigned references (
AKA sort of lost).................

At least I tried... 🙂

Alice Dixon		08/21/1997 11:01:55
PORTIS in Halifax Co., NCLea L. DowdWhile working on my Marshall/Davis line, I happened to see something that I
hadn't noticed before. Maybe it will be of interest or be a clue for us.
WHO is Will PORTIS?

16 Mar 1761
Halifax Co., NC
"THOMAS DAVIS of Halifax Co. to DAVID MARSHAL and MARY his wife of same.
For 'natural love and good will.' 520 acres originally granted 30 June
1760. THOMAS DAVIS. Wit: SAMUEL DISPAIN, WILL PORTIS, JACOB WATSON. Mar Ct.
1761" Halifax Co. Deed Book 7, 222
The Deeds of Halifax County, North Carolina, 1758-1771, Abstracted by Dr.
Stephen E. Bradley, Jr., p. 20.

B 11:42 Halifax Co., NC 3 Oct. 1769
David Marshall to Robert Pasmore of Halifax Co. £8 proclamation money. 75
acres which was part of 520 acres acquired by sd. Marshall. David Marshall.
Wit: Arthur Davis, Richard Blunt. Feb. Ct. 1770

Any clues will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Lea		08/21/1997 12:46:50
Hoot MonDidn't know we had so many Scots hangin' round here. Here is a nifty one for
you:

http://juliet.stfx.ca/~jandrea/projects/tartans.html

Select your own tartan off the list, download it as "wallpaper" for your
PC...looks neat for a moment or two when you are signing on. Unfortunately,
you can't use it for a screen saver because it doesn't "move" and therefore
won't serve the purpose of a screen saver.

Maynard

08/22/1997 3:14:22
Possible Major Discovery in EnglandAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the latest from Liz Jack. She has found a Ffrancis Poythres
baptised 12th July 1609 in Newent. If this is our Francis, he would have
been in his early 20s when he first appears in VA records (1632) --
assuming he was baptised near the date of his birth. Certainly within
reason. Hope all of you get as much of a thrill from this as I did. Liz
is sending me a photocopy of the entry.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------------
Hi Al

I actually found the Francis Poythress baptismal entry for myself today
- in the Newent Bishops' Transcripts not the Parish registers. It was:

MF579: Newent Bishops Transcripts:
Ffrancis the son of John Poythres was baptised the 12th of July 1609.

I don't know how I missed it before except for the fact that every
other page of the transcript is, for some reason, upside down, and I can
only suppose that I missed a whole page somehow in all the turning to
and fro.
Liz
Elizabeth Jack : ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk		08/22/1997 5:29:32
Re: affidavit John Morris Elizabeth Edwards et alAlbert R. TimsPoythress List & Alice,

Alice -- Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to have this information.

All -- Can someone help me better understand the meaning of this document
-- specifically, the relationship between John Morris and Meredith
Poythress, if any.

Thanks,
Al Tims

......I found the marriage bond: Order Book 2, pps. 506-507
>
> Know all men by these presents that we John Morris Meredith
> Poythres----are held firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of Virginia in
the
> sum of fifty pounds current money of Virginia to which payment well and
truly
> to be made, we bind ourselves and each of our heirs Executors and
> Administrator jointly and severaly firmly by these presents sealed with
our
> seales and dated this 22nd Day of August 1782.
> The condition of this obligation is such that whereas there is a
> marriage suddenly intended to be solemnized between the above bound John
> Morris & Elizabeth Edwards daughter of Thomas Edward deceased-----
> If therefore there be no lawful cause to obstruct the said marriage
> then this obligation be void...
>
> Sealed and delivered
> his
> in the presence of John
> + Morris (seal)
> Griffen Stith
>
mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
his
>
>
>
>
>
Meredith
> + Poythres (seal)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
mark
>
>
> Unfortunately, the affidavit mentioned in the post from Knorr's book
re:
> a statement of the age (23), and residence (at the home of his father
Thomas
> Poythress), of Elizabeth Edwards is missing from the microfiche reels at
the
> Library of Virginia........ I was told that either this ( the affidavit)
was
> lost between times of the reference by Knorr, and the microphotography,
or
> that it is in the old library with a bunch of other unassigned references
(
> AKA sort of lost).................
>
>
> At least I tried... 🙂
>
> Alice Dixon		08/22/1997 5:41:25
RE:Downloads from strangersHey guys,
There have been two downloads attached to Poythress list in the last couple
of days and I did not download either one because of possible PC crash. One
was from Beetle72 about Virus Alert and todays was from maurice.crewe@vi. Did
I miss anything or could these be two email trying to crash my PC. I can
still go back and download but wasn't sure if safe.

Thanks for any responces from names I'll recognize.

Bruce Porter
(Poythress)		08/22/1997 5:59:34
Re: RE:Downloads from strangersMarion & Helene PockrusI too would not open mine. I just deleted it.
Helene

----------
> From: Portermom1@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: RE:Downloads from strangers
> Date: Friday, August 22, 1997 5:59 PM
>
> Hey guys,
> There have been two downloads attached to Poythress list in the last
couple
> of days and I did not download either one because of possible PC crash.
One
> was from Beetle72 about Virus Alert and todays was from maurice.crewe@vi.
Did
> I miss anything or could these be two email trying to crash my PC. I can
> still go back and download but wasn't sure if safe.
>
> Thanks for any responces from names I'll recognize.
>
> Bruce Porter
> (Poythress)		08/22/1997 7:25:47
affidavit John Morris Elizabeth Edwards et alCharles NealAlice,

Thank you so much for your efforts on the Morris & Meredith P affidavit
info. Either way it is certainly dismaying that it either has been lost
long-since, or that it is sort of lost now... Hopefully, it will turn up
eventually. I suspect, however, that Knorr (who did really thorough work)
included every scrap of helpful info, and that we are just stuck (as on so
many things from bygone days) not having any additional data at our
disposal.

Again, thanks so much for your assistance.

BPN 8/22/97		08/22/1997 9:41:09
Isle of WightLea L. DowdWhile reading some abstracts, I came across the following... Remember, this
is an abstract and someone may want to check the original.

Isle of Wight Co., VA Will & Deed Bk 2:175
Peter Hayes 7 May 1678/10 Mar 1678 That is what the abstract said...
Leg. Mother; sister Ann Cornes; reversion to my cousin Thomas BYTHESSA?.
Wit: Anthony Fulgham, Hugh Humphrey

Lea		08/22/1997 11:59:53
Worcester willsHi Barbara and all,
You asked for the details of the Worcestershire wills that I found at
the Record Office last week, so here goes.
1. 1611 Isabell Pewtrace widow of Castlemorton
She had sons Thomas & Richard and made it clear she had other sons, but
didn't name them. She also mentioned a John Poikes and his daughter
Alice - could this be yet another variant on Poythress. Her inventory
totalled £4 11s 4d.
2. 1618 Thomas Pewtrace yeoman of Castlemorton
He had a son Richard and said" my now wife Anne", which means he had a
wife before Anne. His inventory was taken by John & William Pewtrace &
others.
3. 1630 William Pewtress yeoman of Castlemorton
He left everything to his son Thomas. His will was witnessed by Jane &
John Pewtress & others. His inventory was valued at £52 12s 6d.
4. 1646 John Pewtris yeoman of Welland
He had a wife Elizabeth and sons William & John. His executor was named
as John Pewtris and his will was witnessed by Thomas Pewtris and Thomas
James. The inventory value was £58 5s 8d.

I have just sent a message to Liz Jack amongst other things to let her
know that I have a copy of all the IGI entries for Poythress, Pewtris
etc in England, which I got on a floppy disc from my nearest Family
History Library. So I thought I would let you all know too and I am
sending Liz Jack a copy of this so that she too has the details on the
Worcester wills.
Regards, Pat		08/22/1997 12:15:16
Re: WILL PORTIS & ROBERT PORTIS HELP!Dear Lea and Barbara,

Bless your hearts for coming up with the two together. I HAVE seen the
Robert Portis signature but had no IDEA how to search for him. The same with
WILL.

You may remember my long running search for the parents and siblings of
Christiana Kisiah Portis (1763-1841) who was married in HALIFAX, NORTH
CAROLINA in 1784 to COL. RICHARD PAYNE RANSOM of Isle of Wight County, Va.
They emigrated to Murphreesboro, Tenn in 1812. Before having children of
their own, they adopted two Portis boys and changed their names to Ransom.
(Thhis is duly recorded as passed by the NC Legislature and filed in the NC
Archives. But their parents are not mentioned.) Their names were Benjamin C.
Portis and Robert Portis. My search has been long to find out who their
parents were. This sounds as if Will could have been their father or Kisiah's
father.like a connection here.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to check out the Will Portis and
the Robert Portis you mention???

Thanks for anything helpful.

Caroline Burnett Cook		08/23/1997 3:25:54
Re: WILL PORTIS & ROBERT PORTIS HELP!Charles NealCaroline,

I'm afraid I don't know since the name only turned up as a witness. He
would possibly show up in any census-substitute available for the area in
the appropriate time, and might show up in any other transcribed, published
records, but so far I don't recall seeing such. Sorry I'm not of more
help.

Barbara 8/23		08/23/1997 4:11:45
Re: Virus AlertTo the Poythress List and especially Helene and Bruce:
My apologies for the virus alert attachment that you received. It came from a
close cousin who had received information on good authority that if you
received an e-mail with the subject "JOIN THE CREW" or "PENPAL GREETINGS", it
was a virus which would attack your computer. It has now proved to be a hoax.
Thank goodness. And again, my apologies for the false alarm.
Barbara (Beetle72@aol.com)		08/23/1997 4:28:30
Re: Downloads from strangersDear Bruce Porter,
Having been members of the Poythress group for some while, we hoped we
were no longer strangers. No other addressees have been infected by us
as far as we know. If you return the message to us we would like to
check whether anyone is taking our name in vain.
We are at the moment testing Beta software for Virgin.net and they tell
us that they have had problems on their server, so perhaps that could
explain any oddness in our message.
Regards, Pat & Maurice

Portermom1@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
> There have been two downloads attached to Poythress list in the last couple
> of days and I did not download either one because of possible PC crash. One
> was from Beetle72 about Virus Alert and todays was from maurice.crewe@vi. Did
> I miss anything or could these be two email trying to crash my PC. I can
> still go back and download but wasn't sure if safe.
>
> Thanks for any responces from names I'll recognize.
>
> Bruce Porter
> (Poythress)		08/23/1997 8:40:46
Surname pronunciationBarbara,
Many thanks for your message but I don't think we can help much with the
Gloucestershire pronunciation of Poythress/Pewtres etc. Nowadays it
seems to us to be a slight soft accent but in the past I am sure it was
much stronger.
I feel "oy & "ew" might then have sounded much the same. Now "ew" is
mostly said as "oo" or "u" but it can be pronounced as "o" as in sewing
a seam.
I am sure I have read something about the Glos. dialect and if I can
find it again I'll let you know.
Regards, Pat

08/23/1997 9:11:39
Found Him!Thats right, folks. I found the guy who began what my mother lovingly
referred to as
my father's Georgia Poythress heritage. The guy was hiding in the Georgia
1860 Mortality Reports.

Name: Francis Poythress
County: Troup
Age: 24
Sex: M
Month/death Oct.
State of birth Va.
Occupation 014 (code for "merchant")
Cause of Death LIQUOR

My guess would be you got to work at it pretty hard to kill yourself drinking
by age 24. No beating around the bush with those old boys in describing
cause of death.. Lets be more modern. I will henceforth say this particular
Francis was "abstemiously challenged".

Maynard		08/23/1997 9:37:57
Surname MapThere is a "U.S. Surname Distribution" page at
http://adm1.hamrick.com/names/ . Enter a surname into the form and it
displays a map of the United States showing the distribution of people with
that surname. The source of the data is a sample of the 1850, 1880, and
1920 Censuses and 1990's phone books; and you can display the distribution
for one year or for "All Years", which presents a mini-animation of each
year in succession.

Barbara		08/23/1997 9:55:10
Francis Poythres in England -- 1609Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the latest from Liz Jack. She has found a Ffrancis Poythres
baptised 12th July 1609 in Newent. If this is our Francis, he would have
been in his early 20s when he first appears in VA records (1632) --
assuming he was baptised near the date of his birth. Certainly within
reason. Hope all of you get as much of a thrill from this as I did. Liz
is sending me a photocopy of the entry.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------------
Hi Al

I actually found the Francis Poythress baptismal entry for myself today
- in the Newent Bishops' Transcripts not the Parish registers. It was:

MF579: Newent Bishops Transcripts:
Ffrancis the son of John Poythres was baptised the 12th of July 1609.

I don't know how I missed it before except for the fact that every
other page of the transcript is, for some reason, upside down, and I can
only suppose that I missed a whole page somehow in all the turning to
and fro.
Liz
Elizabeth Jack : ejack@gloster.demon.co.uk		08/23/1997 10:08:49
Isle of WightCharles NealLea Dowd,

Thanks for catching the Isle of Wight abstractions, especially the one
where the original certainly should be looked at for a clearer reading.

BPN 8/23		08/23/1997 10:14:43
Fw:Gilliam/Bass/Poythress/ Israel/from POCKRUSMarion & Helene PockrusLook at these Poythress! By the way, I have Gilliams and Israels. Lea
Dowd: Your mail is bouncing again. Have you a second address? I have Bass
info for you. If anyone ties to this note, I have the book"The Israels of
America."
Helene

----------
From: Daniel & Mary Sackett
To: gillam-l@rootsweb.com
Subject: Looking for Epaphroditus Gilliam Information
Date: Saturday, August 23, 1997 7:44 AM

Dear all;
I am looking for the parents of Epaphroditus Gilliam and their parents and
so on back.
I have some information as listed below. My uncle did some research at the
Mormon genealogy center and said that I may have the wrong information
about Epaphroditus Gilliam.
Thank you all very much.
Best of regards
Daniel Sackett
Ancestors of Epaphroditus Gilliam

Generation No. 1

1. Epaphroditus Gilliam, born 20 January 1768 in Williamsburg, James
City, Virginia, USA. He was the son of 2. William Gilliam , Jr. and 3. Ann
<<<<<<<< Poythress. He married (1) Annie Israel. She was the daughter of Michael
Israel and Sarah Graves.

Children of Epaphroditus Gilliam and Annie Israel are:
i. Elizabeth Gilliam, born 13 May 1793 in Buncombe County, North
Carolina, USA; married Abraham Collette 10 September 1822 in Clay County,
Missouri, USA.
ii. Jesse Israel Gilliam, born Abt. 1795 in Williamsburg, James City,
Virginia, USA.
iii. Sarah Gilliam, born 01 May 1796 in Williamsburg, James City,
Virginia, USA; died 09 July 1875 in Central Howell, Marion County, Oregon,
USA; married William Thomas Shaw 14 January 1822 in Clay County, Missouri,
USA.
iv. Nancy Gilliam, born Abt. 1798 in North Carolina, USA; married John
Nicholes.
v. Cornelius Gilliam , Col., born 13 April 1798 in Buncombe County, North
Carolina, USA; died 24 March 1848 in Umatilla, Umatilla, Oregon, USA;
married Mary Crawford 31 August 1820 in Clay County, Missouri.
vi. Catherine Gilliam, born Abt. 1800 in Buncombe County, North Carolina,
USA; married Warren Taylor.
vii. Anna Gilliam, born Abt. 1803 in Tennesee, USA; married Houston
Helms.
viii. Robert P. Gilliam, born Abt. 1805 in Tennesee, USA.
ix. John Gilliam, born Abt. 1807 in Tennesee, USA.
x. Aetie Eighty Gilliam, born Abt. 1809 in Tennesee, USA; married Harris.
xi. Mary Polly Gilliam, born Abt. 1812 in Tennesee, USA; married Moon.
xii. Mitchell Gilliam, born 27 September 1815 in Tennesee, USA; died 26
July 1882; married Henrietta Taylor.
xiii. Luhetta Gilliam, born 24 November 1819 in Tennesee, USA; died 15
April 1860; married Jonas Turner.

Generation No. 2

2. William Gilliam , Jr., born 22 November 1735 in Orange County,
Virginia, USA. He was the son of 4. William Gilliam , Sr.. He married 3.
Ann Poythress.
3. Ann Poythress, born Abt. 1739 in Williamsburg, James City, Virginia,
USA. She was the daughter of 6. Richard Poythress and 7. Susan Robertson.

Children of William Gilliam and Ann Poythress are:
i. Robert Gilliam, born Abt. 1764 in Williamsburg, James City, Virginia,
USA.
ii. Ann Gilliam, born Abt. 1766 in Williamsburg, James City, Virginia,
USA.
1 iii. Epaphroditus Gilliam, born 20 January 1768 in Williamsburg, James
City, Virginia, USA; married Annie Israel.

Generation No. 3

4. William Gilliam , Sr..

Child of William Gilliam , Sr. is:
2 i. William Gilliam , Jr., born 22 November 1735 in Orange County,
Virginia, USA; married Ann Poythress.

6. Richard Poythress. He married 7. Susan Robertson.
7. Susan Robertson.

Child of Richard Poythress and Susan Robertson is:
3 i. Ann Poythress, born Abt. 1739 in Williamsburg, James City, Virginia,
USA; married William Gilliam , Jr..

The Daniel Sackett Family Genealogy Home Page
http://missoula.bigsky.net/transitd/default.htm

See Our Sackett Family at this Web Page
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/8782/

And Our Family Tree Maker Web Page
http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/s/a/c/Daniel-F-Sackett/index.html

Check Out the SACKETT-L Family Discussion List Home Page
http://yogi.nmmi.cc.nm.us/~nancy/sackett/		08/23/1997 10:25:29
Francis Poythres in England -- 1609Charles NealGood show, Liz!! Look forward to seeing a copy of it when Al gets it,

Barbara

08/23/1997 10:56:42
Found Him!Charles NealMaynard,

Do you suppose they actually meant that he drank himself to death, or could
it be that he was drunk & had some sort of fall or accident that was fatal,
or maybe that liquor caused a brawl/duel that did him in? Just thoughts...
At any rate, I'm glad you found him. Now if you would refresh my memory
on how he fits on the family tree?

Thanks. BPN 8/23		08/23/1997 10:56:45
Re: Isle of WightCharles NealLea,

Re: Thomas BYTHESSA? in I of W Will & Deed Bk 2:175 per your message:

I'll certainly let you know should I see any original, or should I learn of
anyone else doing so. As you say, it is intriguingly similar & could have
been a transcription error of Poythress, or Pythress or something similar.

In the meantime, I checked my volumes by Hopkins & by Boddie and found in
Boddie's __17th Century Isle of Wight__ (1994 reprint, with index), the
following entry, which makes it appear that there was also a Robert of
similar last name, and that maybe the name was meant to have come from
"By-The-Sea.". See what you think (Boddie has the following as a separate
paragraph):

(Boddie, p. 559 bottom) from Will & Deed Bk I: "Robert Bythesae, 26 years
of age, showeth that when Mr. John Clay sent for deponent, he was in
company with Mr. Hardy, John Clay, Jr., and Mr. Woodward. 9 Apl. 1670.
George Hardy, aged 37 deposed. John Clay, Jr., aged 25, deposed."

BPN 8/23		08/23/1997 11:38:05
More Isle of Wight, VALea L. DowdIsle of Wight Wills and Administrations P. 3
John WEBB 9 Dec 1662/24 Dec 1662
By will left all of his estate to John PORTIS and Joseph CARRELL. Proved by
John Hardy and Richard Jordan. Adm. granted legatees.

Lea		08/23/1997 12:21:33
Re: Found Him!Lea L. DowdMaynard,

If this is your POYTHRESS, then you may be interested in a book one of my
cousins wrote..."A History of LaGrange, GA 1828-1900 and Genealogical and
Historical Register of Troup Co., GA" by Forrest Clark Johnson. As a side
not, my 3rd g grandfather, Charles "Eaton" Bass, was a Judge at that time
in Troup Co., GA.

In this book it states the following:

POYTHRESS
Joseph Poythress b. 1788 GA, d. 4-14-1853 Troup Co., GA. He = 1814 Warren
Co., GA to Mary King b. 6-30-1798 GA d. 9-29-1854 Troup Co. Joseph
Poythress was among the original trustees of LaGrange Female Academy in
1831. He was also an early land promoter in Troup Co. and a planter who had
over 37 slaves in 1840 and employed two overseers. His home was in town on
what is now Main Street on the SE corner of Main and Broome, just outside
the original corporate limits of LaGrange. Joseph Poythress and Mary King
had at least four children who were:

1. William B. Poythress b. 1820
2. Russell King Poythress b. 1825 GA. His wife was Miss L. A. Simpson. She
was born in England in 1832 and was a music teacher at LaGrange Female
College. Russell K. Poythress and his wife had.
2-1 E. T. Poythress b. 6-5-1882 d. 12-13-1927, an insurance agent in
LaGrange. His wife was Gussie Darden.
2-2 H. E. Poythress b. 1856
2-3 Kate Poythress b. 1858
2-4 Joseph Poythress b. 1859
3. Sarah E. Poythress b. 1828
4. Francis R. Poythress b. 1835 who was the father of:
4-1 Mary L. Poythress who married Maj. J. M. Barnard. In the 1870 Census,
Mary L. Poythress was living with the GAY family.

The Troup Co., GA Archives has a web page on the net. It has a wonderful
Archive and Clark works there. It should have an abundance of further
information for you. Hope that this helps some.

Lea
----------
: From: VKRatliff@aol.com
: To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
: Cc: JMP024@aol.com; leighp.wilson@columbia.net
: Subject: Found Him!
: Date: Saturday, August 23, 1997 11:37 PM
:
: Thats right, folks. I found the guy who began what my mother lovingly
: referred to as
: my father's Georgia Poythress heritage. The guy was hiding in the
Georgia
: 1860 Mortality Reports.
:
: Name: Francis Poythress
: County: Troup
: Age: 24
: Sex: M
: Month/death Oct.
: State of birth Va.
: Occupation 014 (code for "merchant")
: Cause of Death LIQUOR
:
: My guess would be you got to work at it pretty hard to kill yourself
drinking
: by age 24. No beating around the bush with those old boys in describing
: cause of death.. Lets be more modern. I will henceforth say this
particular
: Francis was "abstemiously challenged".
:
: Maynard		08/24/1997 1:33:23
Re: Found Him!Lea L. DowdDear Group,

I am not trying to shake your family tree, however, MANY Native Americans
DID have a drinking problem. It is due to the lack of an enzyme and IS
hereditary. Also the State of Virginia had outlawed marriages of whites to
Native Americans, so many of these people just simply went down to NC to
get married....

I am of Native American descent and there have been problems with alcohol
in my family. THEY were not drunks..... Might be an interesting point to
ponder.

Lea

08/24/1997 3:06:33
PORTISLea L. DowdWell, all of you are helping more with my BASS families and collaterals
than the BASS researchers are.... I am so grateful to all of you. If you
can help some more on this, I again will be in your debts....

I happened upon the following and wanted to share it. REMEMBER, a large
majority of this is secondary sources, so use with care.... However, it
does show some connections which I had forgotten. Sorry....

Lea
lea@gnat.net
Southern Bass
http://www.gnat.net/~lea/

Descendants of John Portis I

Generation No. 1

1. John1 Portis I died 07 Apr 1703 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story;
Thomas).

Notes for John Portis I:
Boddie, 17th Century Isle of Wight, P. 609.
6 Apr 1693 John Portis gives to his daughter Susannah Thomas wife of John
Thomas land in the Upper Parish for life. Susannah was the former wife of
John Frizzell, dec'd, and if she dies before her son Will Frizzell is of
the age of 18, then his grandson Will Frizzell is to possess it. If Will
Frizzell have no heirs then to John Portis' son, John Portis, Jr. Wit: John
Bell and John and Edward Prime.

Children of John Portis I are:
+ 2 i. Susannah2 Portis.
3 ii. John Portis II (Source: Boddie, 17th Century Isle of Wight, P.
609.). He married Deborah Hardy Aft. 1671 (Source: Anne Jones;
annegj@juno.com).

Generation No. 2

2. Susannah2 Portis (John1). (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas)
She married (1) John Frizzell Bef. 1672 (Source: Boddie, 17th Century Isle
of Wight, P. 609.). She married (2) John Thomas , Sr. Bef. 1680 (Source:
Isle of Wight Co., VA, P. 609.), son of Richard Thomas and Elizabeth
Marshall.

Child of Susannah Portis and John Frizzell is:
4 i. Will3 Frizzell, born Aft. 1675 (Source: Boddie, 17th Century Isle of
Wight, P. 609.).

Children of Susannah Portis and John Thomas are:
5 i. John3 Thomas , Jr. (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Elizabeth Kearney (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
6 ii. Richard Thomas , Sr. (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
He married ? Rogers.
7 iii. William Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Martha Robinson (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
8 iv. Joseph Thomas , Sr., born ca 1680 (Source: The Thomas & Bridges
Story; Thomas); died ca 1736 in Bertie Co., NC (Source: The Thomas &
Bridges Story; Thomas). He married (1) Elizabeth in #1 (Source: The Thomas
& Bridges Story; Thomas). He married (2) Alice Spivey in #2 (Source: The
Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).

Notes for Joseph Thomas , Sr.:
Bertie Co., NC DB C:212
Samuel Bass of Chowan Precinct, planter, for L36 current money of NC deeds
to Joseph Thomas of same precinct 200A on the south side of Kesai Swamp,
adj. William Williams.

Joseph Thomas' original plantation consisted of 200A of land that he
purchased from Samuel Bass. Six years later, May 12, 1735, he paid for an
additional 640A on the N side of the Roanoke River adj. property of John
Blount, Thomas Busby and Richard Melton. This was purchased from Henry
Avery and his wife Mary. Likely this property was adj. to property that he
already owned on the south side of the Cashie Swamp.

More About Joseph Thomas , Sr.:
: Feb 1734/35, Ex: Michael Thomas & John Spivey. Wit: Francis Hobson & Wm.
Summers
: 1729, Moved from Nansemond Co., VA to Bertie Co., NC (Source: The Thomas
& Bridges Story; Thomas)
: 1720, Purchased 200A on S side of Cashie Swamp from Samuel Bass (Source:
Bertie Co., NC DB G:425)
: 1720, Joseph Thomas to Samuel Bass 175A S side of Oropeak Swamp & 14A
Sand Hill Swamp (Source: Bertie Co., NC DB G:425)

9 v. Phillip Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Ann (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
10 vi. Barnaby Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas). He
married Sarah Dawson (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
11 vii. Elizabeth Thomas (Source: The Thomas & Bridges Story; Thomas).
She married (1) John Dawson , I, Col. Bef. 1745 (Source: 17th Century Isle
of Wight; Boddie). She married (2) John Boddie Bef. 1750 (Source: 17th
Century Isle of Wight; Boddie).

Notes for John Dawson , I, Col.:
DB 1:175
John Dawson of Northampton Co. to William Cannady and Judith Cannady his
wife of Edgecomb Co., NC 7 Apr 1744. 3 pds 10 nshillings current money of
VA, 100A more or less a certain plantstion of ours, on Uraha Swamp, joining
the mouth of a branch, the edge of a pocosin, James Hutcherson, and the
swamp. Wit: William Boddie, John BASS, Jacob BASS. Reg Feb Ct. 1744.

P. 124 Charles Council of NH to John BASS of same. 2 Aug 1762. 10 pds
proclomation 120A which was part of 361A patented to sd. Council 28 Jul
1761 on Uraha Swamp, adj. Colonel Dawson, John BASS. Wit: Wm. Boddie,
Robert Sherrad, Jno. Barnes. Mar Ct 1768		08/24/1997 4:20:34
Re: Found Him!Charles NealLea,

Thanks for sharing the info you located on Portis folks, and thanks too for
reminding us of alcohol problems (which many of us are familiar with from
our own family lines) and of native American info which we should all be
aware of.

BPN 8/24		08/24/1997 5:57:27
Re: Found Him!Lea....thanks a ton...that guy in Troup county has been worrying me for some
time.
I just can't seem to get a handle on him. I suspect he came from Va. all on
his own.

MP

08/24/1997 6:17:52
Poythress Index-Augusta ChronicleBelow is the Poythress index to the Augusta Chronicle.

Comments/observations:

1) its missing two entries....I'll phone Alice Walker, the indexer at the
library, and get these two and add them in.

2) the index stops in 1827 because that is as far as Alice has gotten with
her indexing project. When she finishes the next batch I'll abstract them.

3) in general there are NO links to put
George-Meredith-William-Francis-Edward-Lewis together. In fact, I would ever
so slightly infer the opposite. Note that George
(the one with the money) was not hesitant to foreclose on Edward and
Meredith....
I guess I would only speculate that he would be less likely to foreclose on a
brother than a cousin of whatever variety.

4) the two Merediths look to be the hard luck boys in terms of finances and
life....something we have suspected all along. When one lays these data
beside the Meredith time lines it appears that everything that comes to them
gets ultimately hocked and then lost.

5) there are no obituaries in the paper which is a shame. I guess you got
written up if you were rich and famous but otherwise they didn't seem to
consider it newsworthy.

6) I figured out that it takes me a whole lot longer to transcribe and
organize than it does to dictate....like about a 20 to 1 time ratio. I still
recommend the small dictaphone trick as the way to go in capturing a ton of
information in a small time.

7) Bud, you already have some of this in Kathy Best's material which I chose
to largely ignore....not out of any disrespect but because a) her abstracts
were awfully brief and b) she stopped at about 1818 or so...perhaps because
that was as far as Alice Walker had indexed when Kathy was doing her work.

8) this is a lengthy document which will only be worse if it parses up funky
because I'm posting a Word document to an AOL e-mail. Also, I bold-faced the
P references and that may not show on AOL. If anybody wants it sent to them
as an attachment
in MS Word format just ask and I'll send it.

Hope this will be meaningful. Maybe we will ultimately dig something out of
it but for the moment I'm inclined to view the project as a mild
disappointment.

Maynard

Poythress Index to The Augusta, Ga. Chronicle
1788-1827

Preface: This newspaper, founded in 1786, covered news of Augusta/Richmond
County and surrounding counties Burke, Screven, and others. Initially named
The Augusta Chronicle and Gazette of the State, the name was changed in 1806
to �The Augusta Chronicle�.

Abstracts below are listed chronologically by the �event� date, with the date
of the newspaper, page number, and column number cited at the end of the
abstract in parentheses.

07/26/1788.....Thomas Poythress listed as a tax defaulter, Wynn�s District,
Burke Co.
(07/28/1788, 3, 2)

10/24/1788.....Burke County, October term, 1788 in the Superior Court.
Grievance #7:
We present: ...Thomas Poythress...as gamblers; therefore a
nuisance to
this county. (11/01/1788, 2, 3)

05/26/1800.....Personally appeared before me John Steptoe who being duely
sworn saith
that he has lost or mislaid a note of hand given by George
Poythress to
Thomas Bynes for $ 442.56 which was payable the 15th day of March
last
the note being all paid off but $ 190 which said sum I have since received
from the said Poythress. Signed: John Steptoe. Sworn to this 26th day
of
May 1800. Signed: J. I. Robbinson, J. I. C.[Justice Inferior
Court].
(06/14/1800, 3, 4)

10/09/1800.....Presentment of the Grand Jury: in court October 9, 1800 the
grand jury
brought in their presentments as follows. Burke County, October
term. We
the grand jurors for the body of the county aforesaid do make the
following
presentments. Item # 6, we present Thomas Poythress, Esq.,
sheriff of this
county acting as gaoler for neglect of duty. (10/09/1800, 3, 2)
[note:
Thomas Poythress died in October of 1800].

03/02/1801.....Will be sold at auction, 15th of April
next....Waynesborough....2 horses
belonging to the estate of Thomas Poythress dced. George Poythress,
Admr. (03/07/1801, 3, 3)

11/21/1803.....Sheriff�s sale...first Tuesday in September next, courthouse
in
Waynesborough...one Negro boy named Stephney; taken by virtue of
an
execution, William Duefto vs. George Poythress, administrator of
Thomas Poythress. (12/31/1803, 4, 4)

02/12/1805....GEORGIA, Burke County, by William Baduly, clerk of the court
for the
ordinary in said county, WHEREAS, George Poythress has applied to
me for letters of administration on the estate of George Wallace, late of
this
county dced....therefore..admonish all...the kindred of said dced to shew
cause, if they have any, why said letters should not be granted.
(02/23/1805, 3, 4)

10/12/1805....The following returns of the general election held on Monday
last for
senators and representatives in the State Legislature, are come
to hand. For
Burke County, representatives _____Abraham,_____Jackson, George
Poythress, and William Bines. (10/12/1805, 3, 3)

01/31/1807.....NOTICE...that in the beginning of November last ____ Jones of
the
province of east Florida brought in there one bright bay gelding four years
fourteen hands high, also one bright bay mare and a black mare with some
grey hair, which property is ____ _____ ____ ____ to have been ____
South Carolina--further information may be had by applying to the
subscriber near Waynesborough. Signed: George Poythress, Jan 31st.
(01/31/1807, 3, 2)

03/25/1809.....NOTICE...All persons having demand against the estate of Henry
G.
Caldwell dc�d are required to render in their accounts properly attested
and
those indebted to make payment to the subscriber. Signed: Geo. Poythress
March 25, the administrat�r. (03/25/1809, 3, 3)

07/13/1812....Sheriff�s sale...courthouse in Waynesboro....94 acres of land,
adjoining lands
of Edward Poythress, Margaret Dickson, and others, levied on as
the
property of John and Robert Dickson at the instance of M. Wiggins
&
returned to me by a constable. (07/13/1812, 5, 5)

07/07/1815....On first Tuesday next in Sept. at the courthouse in Warren
County, will be
sold, a Negro girl named Creasey, levied on as the property of
David
Murdin, to satisfy executions in favor of Joseph Poythress, Jared
Burch,
and others, and returned to me by a constable. (07/071815, 3, 4)

10/04/1816....Sheriff�s sale....courthouse in Waynesborough....4? acres of
Land (Burke
County) on the old Quaker Road, adjoining land of John Whitehead,
junr.
Phillip Lumpkin, levied on as the property ______Levecey Sumner to
satisfy sundry small executions in favor of William Poythress, and
returned
to me by a constable. (10/04/1816, 3, 5)

06/21/1817....Joseph Poythress....had a theft....do not have text
(06/21/1817, 2, 1)

07/05/1817....(Judgement won) Two hundred acres of land in Burke County on
Buck�s
creek adjoining lands of Matthew Spain and Lasseter�s land --
levied on as
the property of Peter I. Goulding, to satisfy sundry executions in
favor of
George Poythress and others against said Goulding. (07/05/1817, 3,
5)

12/31/1817....Sheriff�s sale....Waynesborough, one Negro Woman named Betty,
levied on
as the property of Edward Poythress, to satisfy sundry small
executions in
favor of John Lawson, Ex�r of Isaiah Carter and others.
(01/07/1818, 4, 5)

03/03/1818....(Advertisement)...GA. Burr Stone. Several pair first quality
Burr Stone, cut
out of the solid 1 pr. 4 feet, 8 inches, 1 pr. 4 feet, ? inches,
2 pr. 3 feet 10
inches. Any person wanting such stone, or any quantity of blocks
for the
purpose of manufacturing Burr Mill Stone will please apply to me
at my
plantation near Waynesborough. George Poythress (04/18/1818,
3, 4)

03/07/1818....Sheriff�s sale.....courthouse Waynesborough....Four Negroes,
Betty,
Catharine, Prince, and Ellen, levied on as the property of Edward
Poythress to satisfy an execution in favor of George Poythress, in
the
foreclosure of a mortgage. (04/08/1818, 4, 3)

03/25/1818....Presentments of the Grand Jury of March term 1818. We the
Grand Jurors
on their oaths present as follows (enumerated presentments
follow). One of
signers: George Poythress (03/25/1818, 3, 1)

04/05/1819....Rebecca Poythress on list for letters remaining at post office
in
Waynesborough, Georgia on April 1, 1819 (04/05/1819, 3, 2)

07/07/1819....George Poythress on list for letters remaining at post office
in
Waynesborough on July 1, 1819. (07/07/1819, 3, 3)

07/30/1821....Meredith Poythress....do not have text. (08/02/1821, 2, 6)

08/30/1821....Sheriff�s sale...courthouse at Jacksonborough, Screven
County..150 acres of
pine land more or less lying in the county of Screven levied on
the property
Meredith Poythress, Sr. to satisfy sundry executions in favor of
J. S.
Brown, against said Poythress and Solomon Kemp, the same adjoining
land
of M. Williamson, Sr. and others levied and returned to me by a
constable.
(08/30/1821, 3, 3)

09/10/1821....NOTICE...John C. Poythress, qualified administrat�r on the
estate of A.
Carter, in my absence application can be made to my attorney J.
Morris,
Esq. to whom any necessary information may be returned relative to
the
settlement of said estate. Jacksonborough, Sept. 10.
(09/10/1821, 3, 1)

05/02/1822....Sheriff�s sale...courthouse in Jacksonborough, Screven
County...106 acres
of land levied on as the property of Meredith Poythress, Senior to
satisfy
sundry executions issued out of justice�s court in favor of H. M.
Willliamson versus Cleton Poythress and Meredith Poythress,
Senior,
said land adjoins land of Henry Joyce and others. Levied and
returned by
constable James Poythress. Signed James Brown,SSC (05/02/1822, 3, 4)

08/05/1822....Sheriff�s sale...courthouse in Jacksonborough, Screven
County...50 acres of
land in said county adjoining lands of Richard Williamson and
Zachias Long
taken as the property of Meredith Poythress, Senior to satisfy two
small
executions in favor of R. M. Williamson, Sr. versus Meredith
Poythress
and Cleton Poythress, levied and returned by a
constable.(08/05/1822,3,6)

07/02/1823....Sheriff�s sale...courthouse at Jacksonborough, Screven
County...a mulatto
boy named Tom levied on as the property of Joseph M�Gowin to
satisfy
sundry executions in favor of Roger McKinney versus Joseph M�Gowin
and
James P. Poythress also to satisfy other execution vs. Joseph
M�Gowin.
(07/05/1823, 4, 2)

11/20/1823....In Waynesborough, Burke County, MARRIED on Thursday, the 20th
inst.
by the Rev. Mr. Babbit JOHN C. POYTHRESS, ESQ., to MISS ELOISA
AMELIA MORRIS. (11/20/1823, 3, 1)

06/02/1824....Sheriff�s sale...courthouse at Jacksonborough, Screven County,
....687 acres
of land (more or less) lying in the county of Screven adjoining
Little
Ogeechee [River], lands of James Ponder and others; levied on as
the
property of Meredith Poythress, Senior to satisfy sundry
executions in
favor of Augustus B. Jones versus said Poythress and William
Flake, levied
and returned by J. B. Anderson, constable. (06/02/1824, 3, 3)

11/06/1824....Sheriff�s sale...Meredith Poythress, Sr...do not have text
(11/06/1824,3,3)

04/02/1825....Sheriff�s sale....courthouse in Jacksonborough, Screven
County...one third
of a Negro man slave named Corey levied on as the property of
Meredith
Poythress to satisfy sundry executions in favor of John Adams vs.
said
Poythress and others. (04/02/1825, 3, 1)

08/31/1825....Sheriff�s sale...identical to the 04/02/1825 entry above
leading one to
speculate that Meredith Poythress was able to postpone the April 2
sale.
(08/31/1825, 3, 4)

01/22/1827....MARRIAGE at Waynesborough on Wednesday evening last ADDISON
MANDELL, ESQ. of Macon to MISS MARY E. POYTHRESS daughter
of MAJOR GEORGE POYTHRESS. (01/24/1827, 3, 2)		08/24/1997 6:22:57
Augusta ChronicleOn second thought, if the thing parses funky that will go away if you get it
off of Al's post.

08/24/1997 6:25:26
Re: Augusta ChronicleCharles NealMaynard,

What a fantastic job you have done! I look forward to studying the entries
to see how this fits with the James Poythress who showed up down in FL.

Sure seems like there were a ton of these Poythress fellows in GA, doesn't
it?

Thanks so much,
BPN 8/24/97		08/24/1997 7:35:25
Re: WILL PORTIS & ROBERT PORTIS HELP!Lea L. DowdI too want to thank Barbara and everyone else on this list. I have been
members of many lists and feel that this one is by far the best. I am only
sorry that I personally do not have a Poythress connection. However, if we
look hard enough, we just may find one. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

However, I would be very amiss not to give the greatest of my thanks to
Carol Morrison and my cousin Patti. It is their wonderful work and hours
of reading that have brought 95% of these families to light and life. They
are two of the heroes for my family lines.

Well once again paths seem to cross. I have been following the
RANSOM/RANSONE name due to the connections with the BASS and HICKS
families. I do not know exactly who THIS Richard RAMSOM is, but am
submitting the information that I have as it may help tie something
together.

If someone can tie it together or correct mistakes, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Lea

Descendants of Richard P. Ransom

Generation No. 1

1. Richard P.1 Ransom. He married Frances T. Bass (Source: TN Historical
Society), daughter of James Bass and Eliza Howse.

Children of Richard Ransom and Frances Bass are:
2 i. John J.2 Ransom (Source: TN Historical Society). He married Ellen
Crow (Source: Allied Families Bass, Hicks, Mallory, Stratton & Vaughn;
Meeks).

More About John J. Ransom:
: D.D. of Nashville, TN
: Missionary in Brazil for several years (Source: Rutherford Co. TN Bible &
Family Records; Moore)

3 ii. Dick Ransom.

More About Dick Ransom:
: M.D. of Texas (Source: TN Historical Society)

4 iii. "Bob" Ransom.

More About "Bob" Ransom:
: P.C. M.D. (Source: TN Historical Society)

5 iv. Annie Ransom (Source: Twigs & Branches; Cosby).

Descendants of Frances Hicks

Generation No. 1

1. Frances1 Hicks (RobertA, RobertB) died Aft. 1754. (Source: Brunswick
Co., VA WB 2 P. 03) She married (1) Richard Ransom 06 Mar 1737/38 (Source:
OB 4 P. 39 Brunswick Co., VA). She married (2) Batte Peterson 28 Mar 1751
in Brunswick Co, VA (Source: MB Brunswick Co., VA; OB 4 P. 39), son of John
Peterson , Jr.. She married (3) Seymour Powell , Jr. Bef. Feb 1753
(Source: WB 3:94 Brunswick Co., VA).

Notes for Frances Hicks:
5. Frances3 Hicks (Robert2, Robert1). (Source: Brunswick Co., VA WB 2
P. 03) She married (1) Richard Ransom 06 Mar 1737/38 (Source: OB 4 P. 39
Brunswick Co., VA). She married (2) Batte Peterson 28 Mar 1751 in
Brunswick Co, VA (Source: MB Brunswick Co., VA; OB 4 P. 39), son of John
Peterson.

FYI, Frances married after death of Batte Peterson, Seymour Powell, Jr.,
bef. Feb, 1753.

Inventory of the estate of Richard Ransom taken on January 26, 1748 by John
Wall, Jr., Benjamin Seawell and George Wyche. Returned to Court on June 1,
1749, by Frances Ransom, Administratrix. Will Book 2, page 166, Brunswick
Co.

Account current of the Estate of Richard Ransom of the administratrix with
the Will Annexed, audited by John Willis and Nathaniel Edwards on February
27, 1753. Returned to Court on February 27, 1753, by Seymour Powell, Jr.
and Frances, his wife, Administratrix. Will Book 3, page 94, Brunswick Co.

Will of John Peterson dated May 16, 1763, and proved on January 23, 1769.
To son, Batt Peterson, plantation whereon I now live, containing 580 acres.
To son, William Peterson (under the age of 21 years), all land bought of
George Wyche, containing 200 acres and all land on North side of Fountains
Creek, being 500 acres in all. To son, John Peterson (under the age of 21
years), all land on South side of Fountain's Creek and plantation on North
side of Fountains Creek where son, Batt Peterson, now lives. To son,
Hinchen Peterson, land on North side of Meherrin River which is all the
lands FRANCES POWELL hath her right of dower in, and also land bought of
William Newman, containing 420 acres.
Daughters, Temperance Taylor, Mary Peterson, Martha Peterson, Patience
Peterson, Rebecca Peterson, Betty Peterson, and Lucy Peterson. Sons, Batt
Peterson and John Peterson, named as Executors. Witnesses were John Parham,
Nathaniel Hicks, Thomas Meggo, James Roper, Robert Hicks and
James Brown. Will Book 3, page 525, Brunswick Co.

Notes for Richard Ransom:
Will of Richard Ransom of St. Andrews Parish, dated June 27, 1748 and
proved October 6, 1748. Directed slaves, Anaren, Lucy and Peter, now in the
possession of his father in Gloucester County, to be sold. Wife, Frances
Ransone. Sons, James Ransone and Robert Hicks Ransom. All rest of estate to
be equally divided among my three children, James, Robin, and Elizabeth.
Friends, Col. John Wall and Col. Nathaniel Edwards, named as Executors and
as guardians of my two sons. . .and desire they may have bound apprentices.
. .when they come to the age of sixteen years. Witnesses were Samuel
Bennett and John Wall, Jr. Will Book 2, page 153.

Notes for Batte Peterson:
Batt Peterson of Brunswick county, L&A which I have for my Son John
Peterson of same, 920a, on S side of Maherrin River and on both sides of
Fountains Creek, saving and excepting 100a which belongs to James Duglas
out of the said Tract lying on the upper part of the said 920a on the S
side of the said Fountains Creek, dated 28 March 1750. Signed Batt
Peterson. Court 28 March 1750, Deed and Memorandum acknowledged by Batt
Peterson and Frances his Wife previous to which the said Frances was
privately examined. Deed Book 4, Page 137. Brunswick Co., VA

Children of Frances Hicks and Richard Ransom are:
2 i. Elizabeth2 Ransom (Source: WB 2: 153 Brunswick Co., VA).
3 ii. James Ransom, born Aft. 1732 (Source: WB 2 P.153 Brunswick Co., VA).
4 iii. Robert Hicks Ransom, born Aft. 1732 (Source: WB 2: 153 Brunswick
Co., VA).

This RANSONE happens to be my gg aunt. I do not have her connected and
would love to be able to do so if anyone happens to know her.....

This family is probably closely related to the Richard RANSOM listed above.
However, the citations showed himas RANSONE, so I have listed him as such.

Descendants of Peter Ransone

Generation No. 1

1. Peter1 Ransone died Bef. 1726 (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial
Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10). He married Elizabeth
Hicks (Source: Historical Southern Families; Boddie), daughter of Robert
Hicks and Frances Ragsdale?.

Children of Peter Ransone and Elizabeth Hicks are:
+ 2 i. James2 Ransone.
+ 3 ii. George Ransone, died Bef. 1726.
4 iii. William Ransone (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions,
Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10).

Generation No. 2

2. James2 Ransone (Peter1). (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial
Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10)

Children of James Ransone are:
5 i. George3 Ransone (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol.
1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10).
6 ii. Robert Ransone (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol.
1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10).
7 iii. Peter Ransone (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol.
1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10).

3. George2 Ransone (Peter1) died Bef. 1726 (Source: Notes from Barton's
Colonial Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10). (Source:
Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports
P. 10)

Child of George Ransone is:
+ 8 i. Elizabeth3 Ransone.

Generation No. 3

8. Elizabeth3 Ransone (George2, Peter1). (Source: Notes from Barton's
Colonial Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10) She married
(1) Robert Dudley , I, Maj.. She married (2) Robert Dudley Bef. 1710
(Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's
Reports P. 10). She married (3) Thomas Elliott Aft. 1710 (Source: Notes
from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P.
10).

More About Elizabeth Ransone:
: Yes, she actually married 2 different men w/the same name according to
this source. (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir
John Randolph's Reports P. 10)

Child of Elizabeth Ransone and Robert Dudley is:
9 i. Robert4 Dudley II, born 1691 (Source: Notes from Barton's Colonial
Decisions, Vol. 1 Sir John Randolph's Reports P. 10).		08/24/1997 8:20:45
Re: Found Him!Maynard - A drunk........ is a drunk......... is a drunk......!
No matter how you shake it, and no matter whether "he's your kin" or
"mine"!

Glad you're back at the barn fellow. We enjoyed the gathering very much.
Great show(!) and the widow Frances Reddick did a commendable job, Alex and
I thought.

Got a letter Friday from Evelyn Austin - She had mentioned to me at the
reunion that some "dead Poythresses" were living in a cemetery in Swainsboro,
Emanuel County, GA and offered to get whatever information she could from the
grave markers and I thought she meant she would send it to me(?) Now that
was a stupid thought, I guess.

Well she wrote she had gotten it and would be glad to send it to me if I
wanted her too? I got a note off to her ASAP. Who knows, just maybe one
of our long lost deceased relatives might have been planted there? Say,
Meredith P. Sr or Jr? John White P. (?) maybe, even if Wendell Austin and
Goldie Lee both think he's hiding at Mizpha Methodist Church Cemetery that no
one seems to be able to find, or what about old Thomas (Sr) himself?

And by the way, I learned on this last trip thatg Mispha Methodist Church,
near Newington, GA is actually just inside Effingham Cty and not Screven Cty
as I had previously thought.

Take care big guy, talk to you later......

Bud (BPoythress@aol.com - 8/24/97 - 10:25 EDT)		08/24/1997 8:28:26
Re: Found Him!Barbara Neal...

Barb...I'm not sure how this particular Francis fits if he was born in Va.
and dies in
Ga. in 1860. And, yes, its likely that "liquor" as cause of death could
indeed mean a crate of the stuff fell off a shelf and crushed his
skull.....or just about anything.

To me he is only significant right now because Troup County is getting close
to Greene County and I'm in the process of building some circumstantial
evidence that perhaps Francis the brother/cousin/whatever of that
Meredith-Edward-George-Lewis group did indeed move west of Screven to Greene
County. I am putting together a time line that shows A 1786/7 Francis was in
Greene County participating in a series of legal stuff (estate appraisals,
etc.). The theory being that if we work his "thread" long enough we will
perhaps find a) if he is "ours" and b) if so, the link to the others....it
hasn't worked so far for the others of the group but I can't think of an
alternative method.

As for this Francis of the Mortality Schedule, he is a puzzler: born in
Virginia in 1836
so its not likely he is a son of our crowd in Burke/Screven. The time is
getting a little late and I haven't seen any of our guys going back to
Virginia that late to have even HAD a son named Francis.

If Lewis had had a son or grandson named Francis, I'd jump on that theory in
a minute...but otherwise I guess this fellow will just dangle out there until
we find a home for him.

BTW, I have the Augusta Chronicle stuff along with some additions to the time
lines of the two Merediths.....and no, not a shred of it has any "links"
other than Meredith,
Sr. to Jr. I'll post it soon as I get it organized.

To give you an idea of what we are up against in Burke County its three times
burned. At the GDAH there is about a fifth of a roll of microfilm which is a
fragmentary list of jurors for month or so and thats it. For Screven, itself
a once burned county, there are somewhere around 100 or so rolls. Alice
Walker, the
Augusta library genealogist, felt sure she could nail those "orphans of
Thomas"...she headed for the stacks, paused a moment and said "what county?"
I gave sheepish smile and said "Burke". Alice just shrugged her shoulders.

Maynard		08/24/1997 8:43:21
Re: Found Him!Charles NealMaynard,

Re: >putting together a time line that shows A 1786/7 Francis was in
Greene County, GA<

I presume you mean he was there around both years, since
double-dating of years ends at 1752.
You are doing a great job on those timelines of yours. They help
all of us put things in perspective. Keep up the good work.
It's kind of sad when the Librarian just shrugs sympathetically
when you tell her the county is Burke. 🙁
Glad you had a safe trip.
BPN 8/24		08/24/1997 12:04:50
Surname MapCharles NealI detect from the message letting all of us know about the Surname Map
(which sounds VERY interesting), that we have yet another "Barbara" in our
midst, since the message wasn't posted by BPWolfe or BPSpille or by me
(BPNeal). Welcome aboard, Barbara from Ancwolf@aol.com. I'm curious: Are
you also a Poythress by birth?

BPN 8/24		08/24/1997 12:10:43
Re: Surname MapCharles NealCaroline,

Apparently RootsWeb is still having strange & perhaps spotty delays in
transmitting the messages for Poythress-List. I'll copy in this message
below the info about the surname map. I haven't heard back yet from
whoever posted it for the enjoyment of us all.

Yes, your question re Robert & Will Portis showed up on the list & I, for
one, answered it saying: "I'm afraid I don't know since the name only
turned up as a witness. He would possibly show up in any census-substitute
available for the area in the appropriate time, and might show up in any
other transcribed, published records, but so far I don't recall seeing
such. Sorry I'm not of more help. Barbara 8/23"

Hopefully, the messages will fly more timely soon.
Barbara Poythress Neal 8/25
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original message re Surname Map was:
From: Ancwolf@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 23:55:10 -0400 (EDT)
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Surname Map
Resent-Sender: POYTHRESS-L-request@rootsweb.com

There is a "U.S. Surname Distribution" page at
http://adm1.hamrick.com/names/ . Enter a surname into the form and it
displays a map of the United States showing the distribution of people with
that surname. The source of the data is a sample of the 1850, 1880, and
1920 Censuses and 1990's phone books; and you can display the distribution
for one year or for "All Years", which presents a mini-animation of each
year in succession.
Barbara
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & in now case you also missed Maynard's message today
8/25/97, he tried the surname map for Poythress, and it is not there since
it is not one of the "most common 50,000 names" though as he noted, it
should help us on allied lines' names. BPN		08/25/1997 7:32:38
Re: Surname MapAlso, Ms. New Barbara...welcome aboard. When I plugged Poythress into that
surname distribution program it said something to the effect that we have the
50,000
most common names in the program but not you, Buster.....which was certainly
no surprise.

It will be a help on allied famiies though....so many thanks.

Maynard Poythress		08/25/1997 9:26:35
Re: Surname MapActually, everyone does not know about the surname map. I don't. Please tell
us. AND, a day or so ago I posted a question on Will and Robert Portis of
Halifax, NC. Did it ever show up on the list?

Caroline

08/25/1997 9:53:25
PortisLea L. DowdAnother find...

Lea

Franklin Co., NC WB C:28
Sale of Estate of Thomas Butler Rec. March Ct. 1809
The negroes of his estate were to be divided. Joel Rivers was executor,
assisted by Benjamin Perry, Jeremiah PORTIS, John PORTIS. No division could
be made and the negroes were sold. William Jones bought Gilley, Thomas
Fletcher bought Bolling, Joseph Arrington bought George and Lucy.		08/25/1997 11:52:55
More PORTISLea L. DowdHalifax Co., NC WB 1:153
Thomas Davis 29 Sep 1764/Jan Ct. 1765
Son Frederick Davis 2 tracts upon Sandy Creek in Bertie Co. and the 132A
joining what I bought of John Watson and 100A bought of John ____. Son
Goodwen Davis land and plantation whereon William Davis now lives
containing 200A and 700A in Bertie Co. joining Daniel Nance. Wife use of
plantation and still during her life or widowhood and at her Deacease the
same to go to my son Dolphin Davis. Son Dolphin land in Halifax Co. and
Edgecomb Co. and Bute joining James Ransom, George Portis and Lewis Davis.
Son Thomas Davis plantation in Bute I bought of John Watson being 170A and
the land I bought of Arthur Watson and the 700A joining Benjamin Wheelison
and 640A joining Robert Hill. Son Archibald Davis the land I bought of John
____ and the land on White Oak swamp in Edgecomb and Davis son of Lewis
Davis negroe girl and her increase. Daughter Sally Davis slave. Wife use of
other negroes and their increase during her Natural life. Residue of estate
to go for maintainance of wife and children and to educate children. Should
wife marry my household goods are to be equally divided among my seven
children when they arrive at 21 or marry. Brother Lewis Davis money.
Friends Joseph Montfort and Blake Baker 30 pds each. Ex: Joseph Montfort,
Blake Baker and Lewis Davis. Wit: Samuel Davis, Abraham Green, John Green,
Thomas Mann.

Also listed in the deed indexes are (I will send later am in a hurry):
Michael, Robert & Will. All Portis or other spelling

In the Will Book index are:
Ira Portress
Patsy Poythress
George Portis
Sameul Portis
Mary Potis
Sary Potis
Thomas Potis
William Potis

Lea		08/26/1997 2:42:41
Repeat-againDid and earlier version of this get through??
Our server seems to have a headache!

Al,
We were very surprised to see you heralding the baptism of Francis
Poythres on 12 July 1609 in Newent as "a major new discovery". In a
letter to Maynard in April I gave him this very same information, and
from his response I know he passed it on to the group. Since being on
e-mail I have also mentioned it several times. In fact I sent an e-mail
to Liz Jacks on the 20th August mentioning the baptism, which is why she
then found it. I sent a copy of that message to the Poythress list and
wonder if it didn't get through. Since Maurice started Beta testing for
Virgin.net we have been having a few problems. For one thing it looks as
though each message is being sent out twice. Perhaps someone could
confirm this for us please.
Regards,
Pat & Maurice		08/26/1997 8:04:04
Re: Repeat-againAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

You are right! I forgot. Somehow, it seemed familiar. I apologize for
not connecting to your earlier post -- one I'm sure I must have noted.

No excuse, other than being distracted by an impossible deadline for a
major funding proposal at the university. I'll try to be more careful in
the future.

I'm not getting double messages, but would be anxious to know if others are
having problems.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
> From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net
> To: Poythress group
> Subject: Repeat-again
> Date: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 9:04 PM
>
> Did and earlier version of this get through??
> Our server seems to have a headache!
>
>
> Al,
> We were very surprised to see you heralding the baptism of Francis
> Poythres on 12 July 1609 in Newent as "a major new discovery". In a
> letter to Maynard in April I gave him this very same information, and
> from his response I know he passed it on to the group. Since being on
> e-mail I have also mentioned it several times. In fact I sent an e-mail
> to Liz Jacks on the 20th August mentioning the baptism, which is why she
> then found it. I sent a copy of that message to the Poythress list and
> wonder if it didn't get through. Since Maurice started Beta testing for
> Virgin.net we have been having a few problems. For one thing it looks as
> though each message is being sent out twice. Perhaps someone could
> confirm this for us please.
> Regards,
> Pat & Maurice		08/26/1997 9:05:35
Fw: BRYANT, CHITTY, DORTCH all of Southeast VALea L. DowdSaw this on VA-roots list and wanted to pass along....

Lea

----------
: From: JSCC1@aol.com
: To: Multiple recipients of list
: Subject: BRYANT, CHITTY, DORTCH all of Southeast VA
: Date: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 10:53 AM
:
: Looking for information on the following families:
:
: William BRYANT(b: 1806 m:18AUG1828) and wife Mariah H. Bryant (b:1814)
:
: Uriah CHITTY(1804-1855) and Rachel POPE (1823-)
:
: William DORTCH (1810-) and Sally POYTHRES (1815-)		08/26/1997 11:10:25
Re: Surname MapThanks Barbara,

I appreciate your help. Some of the mail for that period was missed because
I unsubbed from the digest and resubbed to the list ....at the wrong time, I
guess.

Good searching,

Caroline

08/26/1997 11:27:06
Francis Poythress and RebeccaHi all,

My name is Heather W. Bowers, I had unsubscribed from the list, but I am now
back:)

I have been doing research on my POYTHRESS line on Capt. Frances POYTHRESS
who married Mary who came to VA prior to 1633, she md. secondly to Col.
Robert WYNN. Frances and Mary had a son named Frances POYTHRESS who is known
as Major Francis Poythress who seems to have died before 1694.

My questions is, is there any proof on who Rebecca's parents were? I have
heard it possibly might be COGAN, does anyone know the answer to this
question?

Also I noticed the POYTHRESS web site. Who do I contact if I want to add
something to this Web site?

Sincerely,

Heather W. Bowers
Lanehunts@aol.com		08/27/1997 3:06:56
Re: More PORTISKen PooleI loved this one, Greens and Bakers, (Blake)Baker, Goodwen, and a Samuel
Davis, do you have more on them? We are reserching them all. Ken

At 04:42 PM 8/26/97 -0400, Lea L. Dowd wrote:
>Halifax Co., NC WB 1:153
>Thomas Davis 29 Sep 1764/Jan Ct. 1765
>Son Frederick Davis 2 tracts upon Sandy Creek in Bertie Co. and the 132A
>joining what I bought of John Watson and 100A bought of John ____. Son
>Goodwen Davis land and plantation whereon William Davis now lives
>containing 200A and 700A in Bertie Co. joining Daniel Nance. Wife use of
>plantation and still during her life or widowhood and at her Deacease the
>same to go to my son Dolphin Davis. Son Dolphin land in Halifax Co. and
>Edgecomb Co. and Bute joining James Ransom, George Portis and Lewis Davis.
>Son Thomas Davis plantation in Bute I bought of John Watson being 170A and
>the land I bought of Arthur Watson and the 700A joining Benjamin Wheelison
>and 640A joining Robert Hill. Son Archibald Davis the land I bought of John
>____ and the land on White Oak swamp in Edgecomb and Davis son of Lewis
>Davis negroe girl and her increase. Daughter Sally Davis slave. Wife use of
>other negroes and their increase during her Natural life. Residue of estate
>to go for maintainance of wife and children and to educate children. Should
>wife marry my household goods are to be equally divided among my seven
>children when they arrive at 21 or marry. Brother Lewis Davis money.
>Friends Joseph Montfort and Blake Baker 30 pds each. Ex: Joseph Montfort,
>Blake Baker and Lewis Davis. Wit: Samuel Davis, Abraham Green, John Green,
>Thomas Mann.
>
>Also listed in the deed indexes are (I will send later am in a hurry):
>Michael, Robert & Will. All Portis or other spelling
>
>In the Will Book index are:
>Ira Portress
>Patsy Poythress
>George Portis
>Sameul Portis
>Mary Potis
>Sary Potis
>Thomas Potis
>William Potis
>
>Lea
>
>
>		08/27/1997 3:08:57
Francis POYTHRESS Land recordThis message is for Lou Pool who did an article on the Poythress Web site.

You made a comment wondering about the date of 1623 wondering if that was the
correct date.

Through research that I recently have done I find the following:

In the Genealogies of VA Families, Vol. IV Neville-Terrill, page 174 it steas
the following:

Land Office Richmond, VA
Grants
Book 1 1623, p. 439
13 July 1637
Francis POYTHRESS 400 acres lying in Charles City County, 50 acres for his
own personal adventure, and 350 acres for the transpotation of seven
persons:- Francis POYTHRES, Richard WELLS, Jane LUCAS, Thomas THOMPSON, Rich.
FERMER, Byran RAYCOCK (?), Francis THOMAS (?), Richard WHITING.

It lists other land records, for example it goes on to say:

Book 2, 1643-57 p. 139
8 May 1648
Francis POYTHRESS 750 acres in Charles City County, the land lying at or near
the mouth of Bayles Creek, 350 acres formerly granted and being part of a
patent of Jenkins OSBORN, July 9, 1635, and pruchased by the said Francis
POYTHRESS from the said Jenkins OSBORNE, Mary OSBORNE and Cat. Edward HILL,
and the other 400 acres formerly to the said Francis POYTHRESS by a patent
bearing the date July 13, 1637.

*************************

What I beleive is the date of 1623 is the starting date of Book 1, for the
actual date of Francis records was 13 July 1637. And as you see in Book 2,
it covers the years of 1643-57, and the actual record is on p. 139 for the
date of: 8 May 1648.

Heather		08/27/1997 3:29:07
RE: Francis POYTHRESS Land recordJAMES L. POOLEHeather, thank you for the information regarding the date question.
I'm glad to get that troubling detail cleared up.

Actually, our eagle-eyed list-meister, Al Tims, suggested the same
thing to me when I first sent him the Poythress file. But he didn't
have the details that you provided (sorry, Al). I think I told him
at the time that the discrepancy was just too important to ignore
based upon pure supposition, albeit very likely.

I intend to correct my "master" file, but I'll let Al decide what to
do with the web-posted version. I know that he went to a lot of
trouble to get it converted to web format the first time. And
actually the information is not incorrect; the worst that can happen
is to have someone else go to the trouble of answering again. (Al, I
can send you a new file if you want -- it's your call).

Now that we've got that detail dispensed with, will the rest of you
Poythress-chasers please get your roots "nailed" so we can get back
to identifying the two "missing" Anns, one of whom I'm theorizing
makes me a member of this family????

Lou Poole

On Wednesday, August 27, 1997 4:29 PM, Lanehunts@aol.com
[SMTP:Lanehunts@aol.com] wrote:
> This message is for Lou Pool who did an article on the Poythress
Web
> site.
>
> You made a comment wondering about the date of 1623 wondering if
> that was the correct date.
>
> What I beleive is the date of 1623 is the starting date of Book 1,
> for the
> actual date of Francis records was 13 July 1637. And as you see in
> Book 2,
> it covers the years of 1643-57, and the actual record is on p. 139
> for the
> date of: 8 May 1648.
>
> Heather		08/27/1997 8:10:16
New PhotosAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I've scanned some of the photographs of Flowerdew Hundred and the Old
Blandford Church taken by Judy Poythress Speed Scruggs during her recent
visit. I still need to add captions and compress the image files to a
lower resolution before I add them to the Web page.

If you'd like to see the photos you can go directly to
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/flower.html

Please note that each image is 100K right now. This means it will take a
couple of minutes for the page to load. Be patient and you'll be rewarded!

Best,

Al Tims		08/27/1997 9:37:14
Fw: BRYANT, CHITTY, DORTCH all of Southeast VACharles NealLea,

Thanks for passing along the query re Wm Dortch & Sally Poythres, and the
Portis info from Franklin Co, NC in March 1809.

BPN 8/27		08/27/1997 9:49:14
I was bounced....Lea L. DowdI guess there must have been some real problems with my e-mail address and
I was bounced.... Okay, if you don't wasn't me anymore, just tell me. I
can take a hint.

Seriously, I hope that I didn't miss anything big and that they server
really did fix any problems.

Sorry for the inconvience I caused.

Lea

08/28/1997 2:26:28
Photos FD/BlandfordHey, Judy, I thought I had some good ones but you put me to shame. Great
job.

Al, I do have some different angles and probably some shots that Judy may not
have.
You want me to send you mine which are same size, color, etc. to let you
compose what you think will look best?

Maynard

08/28/1997 5:56:16
Mystery LadyWhen I was in GDAH last week, I was referred to "Ingrid" on the matter of
"Thomas Poythress (orphans of)".....the question being of course were the
aforementioned orphans George, Edward, and Martha for land lottery purposes
and if so, where is the documentation.

As an aside, Ingrid is the lady who sounds like she is doing a Madeline Kahn
number her accent is so thick. And one has to find some amusement over the
Georgians calling on a ten year immigrant as the "expert". Hmmm...you don't
suppose there IS something to that master race stuff, do you?

Anyway, Ingrid allows (to my astonishment), "isn't this a coincidence, there
vas a lady in here chust yesterday mit der exact same question". I figured
it might be you, Judy, and asked a couple more questions. To my further
astonishment, Ingrid says: "oh, no, dis lady is in here 'all ze time'"...at
which point Ingrid leaves to walk all over the library to see if the lady is
there (she wasn't).

Still in a state of puzzlement, I left my name and address and e-mail and
everything else with Ingrid and asked her to have the lady please contact me.
So....just to alert you all, we have a Poythress chaser that maybe doesn't
even know about us. She's obviously not on-line....no way she could have
missed us if she was. And Bud, you and I both still have "cards" (I checked)
in that surname card catalog so why in the world hasn't she looked in there
and contacted you or me?

I hope we'll find out pretty soon.

Maynard

08/28/1997 6:18:20
RE:Flowerdew PicturesThanks for the pictures Judy. Very enjoyable. I am not that far away from
Flowerdew Hundred and I didn't realize the place was so big. Guess I'll have
to visit now.

Bruce Porter(Poythress)

08/28/1997 6:34:03
Re: Elmwood CemeteryCharles NealLyn & Judy,

Lyn, BPW is out of town on a last-of-the-summer trip with some of the
grandchildren, so I just wanted you to know that there will probably be a
delay before you hear back from her.

Your analysis sounds interesting.

From Judy's message: >...Cemetary was once privately owned. The records
were kept very badly, so it was turned over to the city. The city has all
the records now. The old ones, like David Poythress has very little info on
the card.<

I was just curious, since I had copied another cemetery's cards several
years ago: I gather that in Elmwood's records, at least re this family
lot, there is no indication of WHEN the family lot was purchased, or by
WHOM, or for how much, (all of which I had found at Magnolia Cemetery
(though not at Rose Hill Cemetery, next door to Magnolia) that I had
visited in Meridian, Mississippi). Could you give us a transcription of
the information that IS on the card?

Also Lyn & Judy: Did either of you ascertain from the current management
in what year such records DO BEGIN at the cemetery (i. e. Sort of a
back-handed way to try to prove the family lot was bought at least prior to
"year X")?

Thanks for your good work.
Barbara Poythress Neal (BPN) 8/28/97		08/28/1997 8:18:26
Introduction from a western PoythressP KoscheskiHi, I thought I would reintroduce myself to the list. i was on the
original group of cousins... Maynard is one of them
I am a great grand daughter of James Speed Poythress.They were from
Alabama then Mississippi. My grandfather was Bryant Richardson Poythress
Sr. We've been living in California for over 10 yrs. Weve got two
kids,and one son in law and of course the world's cutest grandbaby [its
in the genes of course]. I am active in promoting and executing the fine
arts in Southern Calif.My specialty is watercolor, but photography is a
second vice.I have been fortunate to be in 2 exibitions so far this
year. Patti Poythress Koscheski		08/28/1997 10:53:05
Re: Elmwood CemeteryBarbara, in another message you wrote:

"Henderson is in Vance County and David [Poythress] lived in Warren
County, right next door. When David [Poythress] died his son Charles
David [Poythress] buried him in Elmwood. "

Is there solid proof of this latter statement? I gather from the
newspaper citation below that Charles David P. was initially buried near
Middleburg and that his remains were sometime thereafter removed to
Henderson. It strikes me as strange that Charles would have interred his
father, a Warren resident, in a Vance cemetery in which Charles was not
subsequently to have himself buried.

In my ignorance, let me put forward an alternative: David Poythress was
originally interred "elsewhere". Son Charles David P. was originally
interred at the homeplace near Middleburg. Sometime after Charles David
P. was buried the family became uncomfortable with having the homeplace
cemetery (or cemeteries). Wanting these remains to be located somewhere
more assured of continuing maintenance, they removed them to Henderson,
an up-and-coming railroad town which was already dominating the region.
Perhaps this was precipitated by the death of grandson Charles Vance P.
This would explain the assignment of the dominant marker in the plot to
C.V.P.

If this alternative has merit, it might also serve to cast some
uncertainty on the birth year of David Poythress stated on the stone
(1800). Perhaps the stone was carved more than 20 years after David's
death. Perhaps an error was made at the time, or an earlier error was
propagated.

In my own experience I am aware of such cases of relocation of remains
from family cemeteries to church or municipal cemeteries. the remains of
my grandfather, Leonard Poythress, was removed from the Poythress-Davis
cemetery in Brodnax, Brunswick Co., Va. to the municipal cemetery in
LaCrosse, Mecklenburg Co., Va. I believe the practice was a common one.

I look forward to receiving your critique. Incidentally, I visited
Elmwood myself last week, 21 August, and saw the plot for myself. I
traced a path similar to what you and Judy must each have traced, going
first to the city office, then to Mr. James Morgan's office at the
maintenance shop, then to the cemetery. Mr. Morgan's secretary made me a
photostat of the Plot 142 index card. I guess she wonders why all this
sudden interest in plot 142.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird

On Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:27:48 -0400 (EDT) Beetle72@aol.com writes:
>Judy,
>You wrote that Elmwood Cemetery had once been privately owned and the
>records
>turned over to the city. Did you copy any of that info or do you know
>any
>more about that history?
>
>The reason I am curious is that in a newspaper clipping I have of the
>death
>of Charles David (1848-1892) it reads "The remains were brought on and
>interred at the old family homestead near Middleburg ....".
>
>Best, Barbara (BPW)
>		08/28/1997 10:59:44
Re: Va. & Tn. tripJudy, regarding your comments below, the information on Blackridge and
Brodnax cemeteries was communicated to the Poythress List from me in
about late June as I recall. I have been to both these cemeteries and
have video footage (though not stills). Based on family knowledge I
understand the earliest Poythress in the Poythress-Davis cemetery is
James David P., grandson of Lewis, along with his wife Lucy Cannon
Moseley. Similarly I understand Thomas M. P., son of Lewis, is buried in
the Blackridge cemetery, along with his wife, Lucy Thomas. Beyond this
point I am SPECULATING the POSSIBILITY that Lewis is buried in the
Blackridge cemetery. My SPECULATION is based on the supposition that
Thomas is buried on the land he was granted from his father in 1845 (see
the web page) and that his father, too, might have been buried there.
During that time and in that era the practice of "burial at the
homeplace" was most common.

I am confident that Lewis is not buried in the Brodnax cemetery. It is
my unverified guess that there were no Poythresses in Brunswick County
(location of Brodnax) between the departures of Thomas, Meredith, et. al.
and the move of the above-mentioned James David Poythress from
Mecklenburg to Brunswick, a move probably due to the location of his
wife's family was in the White Plains, Brunswick Co., area.

The Brodnax cemetery is less than a mile from my parents' home. Each of
these family cemeteries is on land owned by descendants of Lewis
Poythress. Neither of these cemeteries have surviving Poythress markers.
My mother relates how her cousin, the owner of the Blackridge tract, was
recently surprised to learn from her that this cemetery is on his
property.

Congratulations on scouting Elmwood and other places in your travels and
thanks for sharing your findings with us.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird

On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:18:38 -0400 wayne scruggs
writes:
>To Poythress List,
>We have just returned from our trip to Va.& Tn......
>I wanted to look
>for Lewis Poythress's grave in the Blackridge area of Brunswick co.
>Va.,
>but had no clue to where it was.There is a Davis/Poythress Cemetary in
>Broanax,Brunswick Co,Va. I thought he may be buried there. I plan on
>writing to try & get Information on this.By the Way, the Elmswood
>Cemetary was once privately owned. The records were kept very badly,
>so
>it was turned over to the city. The city has all the records now. The
>old ones, like David Poythress has very little info on the card. We
>were
>escorted from the city records office to the cemetary and then were
>taken to the graves. Very nice people.Maybe Al can use some of the
>photos on the web site.
>All for now,
>Judy Speed Scruggs
>
>		08/28/1997 11:03:06
Re: More PORTISLea.....great stuff....and when you do get time put up the others
please....I'm curious as to the degree of "linkage" implied between Ira
Portess, Patsy Poythress, and all the Portis'es and Potis'es.

See ya.

Maynard

08/29/1997 2:12:04
Re: New PhotosIn a message dated 97-08-28 19:21:11 EDT, you write:

<< http://www1.minn.net/~atims/flower.html >>

Al,

I LOVE the photo's!

Heather		08/29/1997 2:18:14
Francis Poythress of 1609Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pat & Maurice Crew found the baptism record for Francis Poythres on 12
July 1609
in Newent. In a fit of memory lapse, I credited the find to Liz Jack. If
this is our Francis
Poythres then he would have been in his early twenties by the time he first
appears in
the Virginia records (1633). (1633-1609 = 24)

Does this seem reasonable to the rest of you? Liz Jack sent us a small
scan of this
particular entry in the Newent record book. I have it available on a
temporary basis at
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/franbapt.html

For those of you who haven't visited yet, the Blandford and Flowerdew
photos are at
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/flower.html

I should note that the large home at Flowerdew is of a modern era and in no
sense represents the size or style of home occupied by the Poythress
families.

Best,

Al Tims		08/29/1997 8:52:21
Misc. infoLea L. DowdIf I repeat myself, sorry... I forget what I send.

Lea

Chowan Co., NC
DB B #1 P. 175 John ARTHUR of CHowan Pct with the concent of Helinor his
wife to Benjamin GORDON of same 9 July 1715 100A more or less on Rockhock
Branch adj Tottering Bridge Swamp the southernmost part of a 530A patent (5
Mar 1712) of Daniel Halsey bought by aforesaid Arthur. Wit: Thomas (T) MUNS
and Thomas (P) PORTUS. Deed is co-signed by Mildred ARTHUR.

Halifax Co., NC
WB 3:545 3 Oct 1813/Nov Ct. 1813
Mary POTIS
My sd two children Sary POTIS and William POTIS all the property I possess
and they are to live together until my son William is 21, my son Thomas
POTIS to be their guardian. Wit: James LADD, Henry JONES. Extr: not given.

WB 3:306
Francis MALLORY 18 Jan 1798/May Ct 1798
Son John MALLORY, daus: Mary RANDAL, Elizabeth MALLORY and Patsey POYTHRESS
negore; sons: William MALLORY and Francis MALLORY 5 pds each, son James
MALLORU 7 negroes and household furniture. Grandson James MALLORY the son
of Francis 1 negroe. Wit: John EDWARDS, Jesse BROWN. Extr: My wife and
William Whitehead, Jr.

WB 3:471
Willie THORNTON 24 Oct 1807/Nov Ct. 1807
Whole estate to child my wife now pregnant with. If sd child dies before
15, my half brother William SWANSON to have $70, half brother Joseph John
SWANSON $70 and my half sister Patsey GUPHTON $70. The sd money to be pd
out of the negroes now at my mother's (name not given). Wife: Polly
VOLENTINE THORNTON 1 horse.
Wit: Enoch DAVIS & Ira (?) PORTRESS
Extr: Joseph ARRINGTON		08/29/1997 8:54:06
Re: Francis Poythress of 1609Lea L. DowdAl,

This was a very important find for you, but I caution you in assuming that
this may be the same. Without further proof it is still an assumption.
This very thing happened with the BASSE family and it has taken until this
year to correct the mistake. People found a baptismal record and family
for Humphrey and Mary (Buschier) BASSE in England. He did have a son named
Nathaniel that was about 5 years younger than OUR Capt. Nathaniel BASSE.
To make a long story short.... Capt. Nathaniel BASSE was NOT the son of
Humphrey as the court records state that Humphrey's son Nathaniel died
without issue in Virginia. TWO Nathaniel Basse's in VA at the same time.
One called Capt. or Lt. and the other was called Gentleman. The later
history writers have merged them into one. Fatal error.

If anyone is interested, there is a page up on the BASS web pages with some
of the proofs. I am writing the whole story for publication.

So, what I am saying is: One baptismal record for a person about the same
age, proof does not make. I caution you to enjoy your find and use that
information to further research this family in England.

Needless to say that I have not made too many people happy knocking Capt.
Nathaniel Basse's association in the Huguenot Society.

Good luck,
Lea
lea@gnat.net
Southern Bass
http://www.gnat.net/~lea/		08/29/1997 9:37:37
Introduction from a western PoythressCharles NealWelcome back aboard, Patti

08/29/1997 10:42:23
Re: Francis Poythress of 1609Charles NealLea,

Thank you for a valuable reminder. I am working on getting a correction
made about which Dozier Godfrey was married to Margaret Phillips down in
Sumter County, AL, and agree that it is far better to hold off on making
any conclusions prematurely.

BPN 8/29/97		08/29/1997 10:53:32
Augusta Chronicle Time LineAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The Poythress time-line from the Augusta Chronicle 1788-1827 prepared by
Maynard Poythress has been added to the Web page under the Studies and
Charts Section.

The Poythress web URL is:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

The direct URL is the August time-line is:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/Augusta.html

I'll try to add more of the backlog of items as time permits this week.

Best,

Al Tims		08/30/1997 8:25:17
ChoresAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Maynard sent me a clip from a magazine article earlier this summer. It
ended up in my pile of things to do in a bin at the corner of my desk.
This morning, I found it under a magnet on my refrigerator door. Humm.
:-). Actually, it is a wonderful little item I suspect all of you will
enjoy seeing.

Now, unless you folks want me to seek copyright permission, I'm not
connecting this to our web pages and will leave it up just long enough for
you folks to see the item. Note: this is a full color/full page scan
(300K) and will take a couple of minutes to load.

Let me know if it shows up on any of your refrigerator doors. I've gotta
run -- Karin is in the basement looking for posterboard and paint :-).

The URL is:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/farmwife.gif

Best,

Al Tims		08/30/1997 10:42:31
Re: Francis Poythress of 1609Albert R. TimsLea,

Your caution is important. I agree 100 percent that we don't have proof of
association between the Francis Poythress we find in Virginia circa 1633
and this Francis Poythres baptized 12 July 1609. As you suggest, what we
do have is a hypothesis and a place to focus our research. Pat and Maurice
Crewe have made a wonderful contribution with the identification of this
record.

Best,
Al Tims		08/30/1997 10:53:34
Chores -- UpdatedAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The immediate response to my "chores" post has been delightful. I've found
the same article on-line at the web site for "Progressive Farmer" (the
original source). It lacks the wonderful photo from the print version, but
is much quicker to load than my scan.

No, I'm not going to tell you what this is about -- it would spoil the fun
:-).

The URL for the PF page is:

http://www.pathfinder.com/@@aiKCWQcAMgQFYV7p/PF/features/1095/farmwife/farmw
ife.html

By the way, the Progressive Farmer web site looks pretty interesting.

Best,
Al Tims		08/30/1997 12:07:46
Re: Chores -- UpdatedAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I see that my editor split the URL line for the Progressive Farmer site.
It wrapped the last few
characters -- making the highlighted URL invalid.

Here it is again:

http://www.pathfinder.com/@@aiKCWQcAMgQFYV7p/PF/features/1095/farmwife/farmw
ife.html

If this wraps again, you may have to edit the thing to add in the
characters that got wrapped.

Sorry that this little item has turned into three posts.

Best,
Al Tims		08/30/1997 12:16:06
Re: Francis Poythress, Greene County, Ga.Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Maynard's study of the Francis Poythress described below is up on the
Poythress web site under the Studies and Charts section. The direct URL to
this information is:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/FPGreene.html

This is an extremely helpful compilation. I hope others of us will follow
Maynard's lead by pulling together similar studies and time lines.

Best,
Al Tims

Maynard's overview:

> On April 21 several of you had a lengthy exchange on this individual, Al
> saying he had an undocumented reference that this FP moved to Georgia
from
> Dinwiddie County. Al also had a Rev. Bounty Warrant record on one
Francis
> Poythress, Serjeant, Army...this coming from the LVA card catalog.
>
> Judy and Linda also had an interest and some comments.
>
> I have pulled together all of the records that I have on Francis
Poythress of
> Greene County along with prefacing comments on the formation of Greene
County
> and the probabilities of an origin for Francis Poythress. Following the
preface
> is my listing of Francis "sightings" in Greene (or predecessor counties).
---------------		08/31/1997 1:29:19
1704-05 Poythress FolksCharles NealDuring this last two weeks spent on Jury Duty, I managed to catch up on
lots of my intended reading while awaiting being called into various court
rooms. (Did finally serve on a jury, in a civil case, which the attorneys
settled after the first half day of testimony.) One of the things I read
was Thomas J. Wertenbaker's __The Planters of Colonial Virginia__ which (as
the recent review I saw indicated) gave me a much more thorough
understanding of life at the end of the 1600s & beginning of 1700s in VA.

Wertenbaker attached as an appendix, the "Rent Roll of Virginia 1704-1705"
which was the first real effort at the time to get a really accurate
listing of all the land holdings in VA. The entire list covers about 65
pages, county by county, usually in alphabetical letter-groupings (all the
A names; all the B names, etc) though at least one of the counties is in
groupings alphabetized by the first name rather than the surname.

I of course searched for any names that might remotely seem like ours. I
am amazed at how many counties had NONE. These are listed here in the
incomprehensible order they are in the book:
Henrico
Surry
Nansemond
Norfolk
Princess Anne
Elizabeth City Co.
Warwick
York
James City Co.
New Kent
Charles City Co.
King William
King & Queen
Middlesex
Accomack
Northampton

However, 4 counties DID have some that seem certainly ours, and some that
could be ours. I was surprised by some of this info (no surprise at the
first two counties here, though). Names are followed by the number of
acres the person holds:

Prince George:
Francis Poythwes [sic], Sen. 1,283
Thomas Poythres 616
Jno Poythres Jun. 916.

Isle of Wight: [yes, these 2 are spelled differently from one another]
Jno Porteus 100
Jno Portous 300

Gloucester (spelled Glocester in this book): This county was, I believe,
the only one that specified the people by Parishes. It included 4
parishes, none of which I recall ever hearing before: Petso, Kingston,
Ware, and Abbington. Both of the following persons were in Petso Parish:
Madm Porteus 500 [I assume this could be an abbreviation for Madam?]
Pobt Porteus 892 [I assumed this might be a transcription error for
"Robt," since probates did not appear to be listed by any abbreviation
other than "Est" or "Estate" throughout, and I couldn't think of anything
"Pobt" might stand for.

Essex Co, though this name appears at the end of Essex' listing and is for
these 2 people who hold land in Essex, even though the people themselves
are both "of King & Queen Co." This made me go back and re-check King &
Queen Co, to see if they also hold land there, but they are not listed in
K&Q:
"Richd. Wyatt & Jno. Pettus of King & Queen County 800 acres"

For those of you not familiar with where these counties are: Gloucester
County and King & Queen County are located near to one another, on the east
side of the York River. The York River is parallel to the James River,
east of the James. The long peninsula between the York & James Rivers
contains Charles City Co, James City Co., York Co,, and Williamsburg,
Jamestown, Hampton, & Newport News. Prince George County (which was formed
in 1703 out of part of Charles City Co) is across the James River from
Charles City Co. Isle of Wight Co. is further south than PG Co. Even back
then, I of W Co was separated fom PG Co by Surry Co., with I of W Co being
across the James River from some of the bottom part of the above-described
peninsula.

All for now. Hope everyone is having a great 3-day weekend.
BPN 8/31/97		08/31/1997 3:41:35
Re: Augusta ChronicleCharles NealMaynard,

What follows is only one way of looking at the Poythress index to the
Augusta Chronicle that you put on the List 8/24. Listing the various
Poythress names in the order in which they appear, followed by the dates
when they appear.

We KNOW that John C & Mary E are children of George. And we KNOW that
George was administrator of Thomas' estate, and thus probably kin to him,
but do we KNOW how he was kin & if so, what document(s) spell out the
kinship?

We can infer that Cleton & Meredith Sr were kin since they were both sued
by Williamson and their land seems to have been either jointly held or
adjacent to each other from the little we see in the 1822 entries here. It
is ironic that James was the constable levying that Sheriff's sale.

You mentioned that George didn't seem to hesitate to foreclose on Edward.
From the way the dates run, perhaps Edward had moved on further west by
that 3/7/1818 Sheriff's sale of 4 Negroes to satisfy George in the
foreclosure. In any case, George may have felt. he had to do it to protect
his interests since less than 3 months earlier one of Edward's other
creditors had gotten a Sheriff's sale of one of Edward's Negro women.

You also had mentioned that George was not hesitant to foreclose on
Meredith, but I saw no mention of that occurring. In fact, I don't really
see anything to indicate that they both lived there at the same time or at
overlapping times. Am I missing something?

>>>>>>>>
Thomas Poythress 7/26/1788; 10/24/1788; 10/9/1800; his estate 3/2/1801;
estate 11/21/1803

Then arriving on the scene about the time Thomas was dying:
George Poythress 5/26/1800; 3/2/1801; 11/21/1803; 2/12/1805;
10/12/1805; 1/31/1807; 3/25/1809; (big gap of years here) 7/5/1817;
3/3/1818; 3/7/1818; 3/25/1818; 7/7/1819-which is a listing saying that
he hasn't picked up a letter at the Post Office, so maybe he's gone now;
1/22/1827-notice of marriage of Mary E. Poythress, his daughter, to Addison
Mandell, so this one doesn't necessarity indicate he's there anymore
either.

Edward Poythress 7/3/1812; 12/31/1817; 3/7/1818

Joseph Poythress 7/7/1815; 6/21/1817

William Poythress 10/4/1816

Rebecca Poythress 4/5/1819-letter remaining at P.O.

Meredith Poythress(here, indicating MP when no Sr or Jr indicated, and
MP,Sr when it was Sr): MP-7/30/1821; MP,Sr-8/30/1821; MP,Sr-5/2/1822;
MP,Sr-8/5/1822 --Note, in your listing, for the same article there was
mentioned "Meredith Poythress" without the "Sr" but it is apparently the
same court case described in the 5/2/1822 listing where the court case
indicated it was MP,Sr.; MP,Sr-6/2/1824; MP,Sr-11/6/1824;
MP-4/2/1825; MP-8/31/1825

John C. Poythress 9/10/1821; 11/20/1823

Cleton Poythress 5/2/1822; 8/5/1822

James Poythress 5/2/1822; James P.Poythress 7/2/1823

Mary E Poythress 1/22/1827

All for now.
BPN 8/31/97		08/31/1997 3:41:41
Re: 1704-05 Poythress FolksAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Barbara Neal's account of Thomas J. Wertenbaker's "The Planters of Colonial
Virginia" rent roll information is helpful. The PG information is
confirming -- given Bolling's surveys from the early 1720s.

The Porteus tree is one I barked up on several occasions in months past.
If time permits, I will attempt to reconstruct the information I
identified. I'm reasonably confident that he (Jno Porteus) isn't one of
ours. I'm also reasonably confident (reasonably meaning only that to date
I've found no connections via property, allied family, etc.) for the Portis
surname found most commonly in Isle of Wight. This does not mean that
Poythress may not have evolved into a spelling akin to Portis at one time
or another. Recall, that we don't really see the modern "Poythress"
spelling emerge with any consistency until the end of the 17th century.

Thomas J. Wertenbaker's "The Planters of Colonial Virginia" sounds like a
must for the bookshelf.
----------------
Several of you have written to say that the 1609 record for Francis
Poythres is hard to read. Liz Jack sent it to me in a much larger format
(3.5 Megabytes). I made it much smaller for the web post. Perhaps too
much? If you'd like, I can beef it back up to a larger size with higher
resolution. I can add the transcription that Pat and Maurcie Crew sent us
for this entry. Let me know.

Now, for a little reminder of where the world was at the time this record
was created. The following footnotes might be considered trivia by some,
but to me, they represent benchmarks.

It wasn't until 1557 that the symbol for equality "=" appeared in
mathematics. It was first used by an English physician and mathematician
named Robert Recorde. He used it to express the following idea: "noe .2.
thynges, can be moare equalle". Perhaps an even more meaningful benchmark
is the fact that Francis Poythress was a well established citizen in
Virginia in December, 1642 -- when Issac Newton was born.

Best,

Al Tims		08/31/1997 5:20:05
1609 Frances Poythress< Poythres is hard to read. Liz Jack sent it to me in a much larger format
(3.5 Megabytes). I made it much smaller for the web post. Perhaps too
much? If you'd like, I can beef it back up to a larger size with higher
resolution. I can add the transcription that Pat and Maurcie Crew sent us
for this entry. Let me know.>>>

Al,

Yes please:)

Heather		08/31/1997 6:21:52
Augusta ChronicleBPN.....those questions will come clear when I do the event sequence for
George,
Cleton, Edward, etc. ( I hope).

I want to say we KNOW that George was son of Thomas but if I actually had
that in writing I would have burned it into my memory bank that George and
Meredith, Sr. were brothers (or at least half brothers) because we do
"almost" know that Thomas was father of Meredith, Sr. And since we know
George was brother of Lewis we would then have four of them hooked
together....and I just don't think we have that. But that just whets my
appetite more because I think with the trainload of paperwork floating around
on George, if we can hook him to Thomas as a son(and the implications are
there big time) that just may be the "door".

We do know that Cleton (Cleaton) was the son of Meredith, Sr. and the brother
of Meredith, Jr. because we have the text of Cleton's will (1828) in which
both are not only mentioned specifically but mentioned in their roles.

Re Edward....this guy is smoke and mirrors....I'm not sure how clear he will
come even with an event sequence but we'll see. And yes, he could have been
long gone at the time of the foreclosure. I wouldn't be surprised to find
him dead or slipped away to Alabama or Mississippi. (Just think, if he went
to Sumter County and had a passel of kids you'd never figure your crowd out).

When I dictated the Augusta Chronicle stuff in the library I recorded over
two entries
which I have asked Alice Walker to abstract for me and sent her an envelope.
I think one of them will be the instance in which George foreclosed on
Meredith, Sr. I distinctly remember a foreclosure each on Edward and
Meredith, Sr.

Re marriage of Mary Elizabeth (1827)....well, absent evidence to the
contrary, I say we just got to assume George was there. Mary's mother had
died in Savannah at son John C.'s wedding Christmas of 1824. I'm not sure
whether Geo. had remarried by 1827 or not but either way Mary is not going to
be rattling around in that mansion in Waynesborough all by herself. ( and
although John C. would have brought his bride back to Waynesboro he would not
yet have inherited the mansion from George).

Couple of wild predictions: by the time we are through, a) Joseph is going
to be the guy who moves to Troup County (LaGrange) and starts that
clan.....b) James and James P. are same guy and he is the one splattered all
over Screven County records although no one has ever put him together. I
didn't even try because I didn't know where to start. Martha (not staking
any claim to fact) has given a hint. She theorizes William (as Thomas'
brother) had a son Wm, Jr. whose son would be this James Poythress. Thats
going to take a lot of work if it can be done at all. There won't be any
shortage of records on James P. but whether or not they tell us anything is
another question.

You are correctly disconcerted by how the P's along in 1790's stop
"connecting".
Well, I was musing on that very point while whizzing up Ga. # 25 from
Sylvania to Waynesboro(ugh) a couple of weeks ago. Given the fact that even
today what is not farm land or pine trees is jungle....and that the whole
Briar Creek (which would be called a river most places) bottom land is pure
swamp......I figured that Sylvania to Waynesboro would just have to be a two
day trip for a guy on a mule....and that is AFTER Screven was whacked out of
Burke County in 1793.

So.....if we are looking at a two day mule ride (or even one day) between
county seats....and most of the stuff we have as "records" gets done at
courthouses...its not too difficult to see them get "disconnected". For
example, if George-Edward-Martha really are "Orphans of Thomas" for purposes
of going to the Burke County Court House and registering for the 1807 land
lottery.....its not plausible to infer that Meredith therefore has no chance
of being a brother to George-Edward because he didn't sign up as an orphan
with them. Heck, Meredith was two days away down in Screven County and for a
dirt farmer the distance from Screven Courthouse to the Burke Courthouse (and
not knowing the precise day George et al would go to courthouse to register)
the logistics of that trick would be a moon shot. And if you didn't have
MEAP (under 21) along to "qualify" you, you couldn't register as "orphan of"
anybody if you were over 21 yourself.

And further, if you mentally time-machine yourself back to the terrain of
1806, it is certainly no surprise that those folks all married next door
neighbors and cousins...a few miles was a sizable barrier. And yet....this
fact sort of stands in contradiction of
Thomas et al apparently going back and forth from Burke to Mecklenberg with
some degree of regularity.

But your point is very well taken, Barb, there ain't nothing like standing
there on the same ground for giving one a perspective.

See ya.

Maynard		08/31/1997 9:04:52
New scan for Francis Poythress 1609Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

I have redone the scan of the 1609 entry for Francis Poythress and added
the transcription. Note: the new scan is formatted for landscape
orientation (if you plan to print a copy). Also, it is 600k -- so be
patient with the download.

It can be found at:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/franbapt.html

Also, I'm pulling the farmwife page down after labor day (seems
appropriate).
it can be found at:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/farmwife.gif

Best,
Al Tims		08/31/1997 9:08:18
Francis Poythress, Greene County, Ga.On April 21 several of you had a lengthy exchange on this individual, Al
saying he had an undocumented reference that this FP moved to Georgia from
Dinwiddie County. Al also had a Rev. Bounty Warrant record on one Francis
Poythress,
Serjeant, Army...this coming from the LVA card catalog.

Judy and Linda also had an interest and some comments.

I have pulled together all of the records that I have on Francis Poythress of
Greene County along with prefacing comments on the formation of Greene County
and
the probabilities of an origin for Francis Poythress. Following the preface
is my listing of Francis "sightings" in Greene (or predecessor counties).

Unless this information by itself starts a productive process, I plan to just
keep this
Francis on file for a while. He shows no links to Burke/Screven and/or the
Thomas line. Indeed, he offers several hints that he may not even be of this
immediate family.

He offers only two positives, both miniscule. First Martha Dixon lists him
as a cousin of Thomas (I suspect because she had no where else to put him)
and says
charitably "virtually nothing known about him or his family". Second, he had
the Christian name of Francis.....but so did 30 other Poythresses from
Virginia.

Will welcome comments on the below. Again, if this parses out funky and you
want an "attachment" in MSWord format I can send it to your personal address
if you ask.
I would like to get this Francis tied in but I don't see any immediate
prospect unless this post brings a reaction it doesn't seem likely.

Maynard

Francis Poythress of Greene County, Georgia

Greene County was created in 1786 out of the northern part of what was
originally Washington County., Washington County itself having been created
in 1784 from lands ceded by the Creek Nation in 1783. It was named for
General Nathaniel Greene, a Revolutionary War hero. Greene Co. was a
significant and early �destination� county from other parts of the state.
Greensboro was and is the county seat. Records from Greene Co. are poorly
written, missing, out of order, have page numbers missing, destroyed, etc.
The document of 19 Jul 1792 (below) would suggest that this is not a total
tragedy.

Preface, Poythress specific: also appearing in Greene County 1838 is one
Hardaman Poythress. Hardaman and its variations seem to be specific to
Virginia Poythresses. However Hardaman did not show in the Thomas Poythress
line going to Burke/Screven Counties. Should one speculate that the
appearance of Hardaman Poythress, potentially a son of this Francis Poythress
of Greene County, implies that Francis of Greene County came to Georgia
independent of Thomas Poythress� family? Also, there is some speculation
that Francis of Greene Co. came from Dinwiddie County and his land may have
been a grant for Revolutionary War service, again suggesting that Francis
Poythress of Greene may be a separate family coming to Georgia.
Further, an appearance in Georgia in 1785 (taxed for property) may be earlier
than the arrival of the Mecklenburg Co., Va. Poythresses.

00 000 1785 Francis Poythris, taxed for 100 acres in Washington County. He
was
living west of the Ogeechee River, south of South Fork, therefore east
of the �Temporary Line� considered by surveyors and residents of both
Washington and Wilkes Counties to be the boundary between the two
counties. The area was placed into Greene County 3 Feb 1786. From:
Wilkes County, Ga. Tax Records 1785-1805. (from Linda Starr). MP
comment: this is assumed to be same Francis Poythress based on location
of property, see below. Also, from Early Records of Georgia, -Wilkes
County, Vols. 1 & 2, is listed �Francis Poythriss 1 poll, 100 acres,
Capt. Thompson�s District, Benj. J. Thompson, Esqr.�.

00 000 1786 Four Grants to Francis Powers (?), total 1350 acres, Wilkes
County
(questionable entry, no source).

12 Aug 1787 Deed for 120 acres on waters of the south fork of Ogeechee
adj....Francis
Poythrys...Greene County, Georgia DB 1, pg. 125

00 Aug 1787 Deed for 200 acres on the waters of the South Ogeechee, adj.
Poythress,
Rogers, etc. Greene County, Georgia DB 1, pg. 194-96.

04 Oct 1787 Inventory and Appraisement of Estate of Dorothy Ashield,
dced...given
in by......Francis Poythers..., Sworn appraisal dated 4 Oct 1787.
Greene Co., Ga. Misc. Records, Book A, 1787-1801, pg. 2.

17 Apr 1788 An acc�t. of the Sale of the Est. of Stephen Parker, late of
Greene County,
dec�d made by Capt. James Alford, Admnr. May 3, 1788. Persons sold to:
....Francis Poythers..etc. Greene Co., Ga. Misc. Records, Book A, 1787-
1801, pg. 23.

00 000 1789 Poythers, T. H. (sic? or perhaps Hardaman) Taxpayer year 1789
Greene
Greene County, GDAH Microfilm drawer 230/roll 9.

10 Mar 1789 Deed for 250 acres on South Fork of Ogeechee R. bounded by.....
....Francis Poythryss,.... Green Co., Ga. DB B, 1793-1802, pg. 7.

19 Jul 1792 Michael Rogers of Greene Co., planter, to Zachariah Bayes (Boyes)
of
Wilkes Co. planter; whereas the said Michael Rogers together with
Francis Poythress by their certain bond dated 22 Feb. last stand unto the
said Bayes in the sum of 1000 pds. on condition that when Berry Rogers
son of the said Michael comes of age shall relinquish all right etc. to the

said gift alluding to a deed or will made by said Boyes, as it is said,
unto
the said Berry of a negro man slave named Osborn and a girl named Phillis
and sundry other articles which deed was made when the said Boyes was
deprived of his reason by intoxication; the said Michael Rogers for 1000
pds. and for better securing the payment thereof in case said Berry Rogers
shall neglect or refuse to disclaiim all right to said negroes mentioned in
the
clandestine deed of gift dated 26 Oct 1791, and for securing the same in
case Zachariah Boyes be disturbed by said Berry Rogers, and in
consideration of the further sum of 5 shillings paid to Michael paid by
Zachariah, 200 acres on the S. fork of the Ogeechee whereon the said
Rogers now resides adj. lands of Henry Peeks, Abraham Lawrance, John
Rogers and Thomas Credile, also one negro boy named Phill, horses and
cattle. If the said Berry Rogers shall within 10 years relinquish all
claims to
the aforesaid negroes Osborn & Phillis...etc. Signed: Mick. Rogers, Wit:
John Armor, J. P., Seaborn Jones. Greene County, Ga. WB 2, pgs. 21-22.

00 000 1793 Greene County Tax Book 1793. Name of Taxable: Francis Poyther,
County: Greene, Whom adjoining: Jno Johnston. Ga. Gene. Soc. Quarterly
Vol. 13, 1977 �Green County, Captain Whitefield�s District�.

11 Feb 1794 We, Michel Rogers and Francis Poythress of Greene Co. do promise
to
pay to Zachariah Bays or his heirs the sum of 100 pds. The consideration
of the above obligation is such that whereas there is a Deed of Gift on the
record of Superior Court from the said Zachariah Bays for two Negroes, to
wit Osborn and Phillis, to Berry Rogers son of said Michael Rogers and
Frances Porter shall in behalf of Berry Rogers when he shall come of age
relinquish and disclaim all right title or demand of said Deed of Gift,
then
above obligation to be voyed (sic). Signed Michl. Rogers, Francis
Poythress. Wit: Wm. Heard, Wtn. Oneal. Proved by Wm. Heard who
also saw Wooton Oneal sign, 21 Jan 1794 before Thomas Baldwin, J. P.
Reg: 11 Feb 1794. Greene County, Ga. DB 2, pg. 82-83.

04 Dec 1800 Deed 200 acres in Greene Co. adj......& Poythress...Rec: 6 Sep
1802.
Greene Co. Ga. DB 2, pg. 723-724.

30 Nov 1801 Deed for 100 acres on waters of Shoulderbone Creek bounded at
time of
survey by......Poythress........ Greene Co., Ga. DB 2, pg. 717-718		08/31/1997 10:47:05
Francis Poythress, Greene County, Ga.Charles NealMaynard,

Okay, I am willing to try reading it more easily with the MS Word
attachment route. Maybe now that I actually have MS Word for Windows 97 on
this new computer, I'll do better on receiving Word attachments. Please
send it, and we'll give it a try.

Thanks,
BPN 8/31		08/31/1997 12:52:40
PORTISLea L. DowdAbstracts of the Wills of Edgecomb Co., NC 1733-1856; Williams & Griffin,
P. 266
George PORTIS Oct 5, 1775/Jan Ct. 1776
Dau & Extx Ann, choice of beds and furniture; son William 5S sterling of
Great Britain; son & Ex: John FLOYD alias PORTIS, he and daughter Ann to
have remainder of estate. Wit: Absolom Lancaster, William Connell, Benj.
Floyd, Henry Gainer.		09/01/1997 4:15:36
Re: New scan for Francis Poythress 1609Great Scan! ( I assume its only the two line entry in a baptismal record and
the fragments of lines above and below pertain to someone else).

I think the "sonne of John" is another contributing link inasmuch as its
literally tough to find a generation in the family without a "John".....to be
sure John is no unusual name but for probable linkage its about as good as we
can get...unless, I suppose, it was Francis.

Great job, folks.

Maynard

09/01/1997 8:51:03
Re: More PORTISYes, add my thanks, too. Still collecting all PORTIS references.

Caroline

09/02/1997 4:14:56
Re: PORTISLea,
WOW, you do get around! Edgecombe Co. is near Northampton Co. Could be we
are getting closer to the Northampton Co. Poythress'

Thanks for all you do and all your hard work.

Bruce
Portermom1@aol.com		09/02/1997 5:42:04
Sarah PoythressHello, JSCC1. Through Lea and Maynard, other members of the Poythress
research group, I have received the following inquiries from you:

>>Looking for information on the following families... William DORTCH
(1810-) and Sally POYTHRES (1815-)

>>I am trying to locate information on the family of William DORTCH and
Sarah POYTHRES. they were married on 31JAN1837 in Mecklenburg Co.. Their
children were Martha, Jasper, Alvin, and Tom. Could Sarah be the daughter
of Meredith
and Hester POYTHRES?

I am the third-great-grandson of Lewis Poythress of Mecklenburg Co., Va.,
through his son, Thomas M. Poytress. Based on my analysis of Poythress
census records of Mecklenburg Co., Va., along with the work of other
Poythress researchers, I offer the following as confirmed and possible
children of Lewis, with birthyears:

John, ca 1794-1802
Edward, ca 1798
James, ca 1805
David, ca 1806
Rebecca L., ca 1810
daughter, ca 1815-1820
Lewis Y., ca 1815-1820
Thomas M., ca 1823

Could this second daughter be your Sarah Poythress? What additional
information do you have on Sarah that might help us piece this together?
Your marriage citation is very interesting. I had not run across it
before. If you could let me know the source, it would be much
appreciated and I will pass along to the other researchers. Also, the
source for Sarah's age would be very interesting.

I would say that Rebecca, Lewis Y. and Thomas M. are confirmed children
of Lewis; Rebecca based on her Mecklenburg marriage record and the others
based on an 1845 Mecklenburg deed. I would say that John and Edward are
strongly implied as children of Lewis based on the will of their
grandfather Edward Giles. Circumstance indicates James and David are
children, but we Poythress researchers are still on the hunt for the hard
evidence. The eighth child, the nameless daughter, is evidenced only by
pre-1850 census records, a very tenuous connection. Any help you could
provide in adding this puzzle part would be exciting.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		09/03/1997 2:59:10
Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina A. RoperHi. I am new to the list. Have also checked out the website and it is among
the top 3 I have seen!

I have a line that I am hoping someone can elaborate on for me.

It is:

Frances Poythress married Rebecca (Cogan?)
their daughter Rebecca Poythress (c1675-aft 1736) married Richard PACE.

Richard Pace left a will probated Feb 1738 in Bertie CO NC
children:
Richard 1700-1779 m 1723 Elizabeth Cain
William 1702-1775 m Selah Boykin
THOMAS (my line) c1704-will prob 1765 Northampton NC m Amelia Mildred Boykin
Ann m ___Stewart
Rebecca m #1 John Bradford #2 William Aycock
Amy m ___Green
Tabitha m John Moore
Frances m ___Green
Margaret m Wm Johnson
Sarah m ___House

I would appreciate any information about the ancestors of Francis and/or
Rebecca (Cogan?)

My line continues on down from Thomas Pace and Amelia Boykin through AMEY
who married Solomon Strickland.

Willing to share what I have.

Regina Roper		09/03/1997 8:47:26
Re: Elmwood CemeteryJudy,
Your photos on the webpage are great! And many thanks for the phone number
to the cemetery office in Henderson, NC.

And Lyn you wrote: "Henderson is in Vance County and David [Poythress] lived
in Warren
County, right next door. When David [Poythress] died his son Charles
David [Poythress] buried him in Elmwood. "

Is there solid proof of this latter statement? I gather from the
newspaper citation below that Charles David P. was initially buried near
Middleburg and that his remains were sometime thereafter removed to
Henderson. It strikes me as strange that Charles would have interred his
father, a Warren resident, in a Vance cemetery in which Charles was not
subsequently to have himself buried.

In my ignorance, let me put forward an alternative: David Poythress was
originally interred "elsewhere". Son Charles David P. was originally
interred at the homeplace near Middleburg. Sometime after Charles David
P. was buried the family became uncomfortable with having the homeplace
cemetery (or cemeteries). Wanting these remains to be located somewhere
more assured of continuing maintenance, they removed them to Henderson,
an up-and-coming railroad town which was already dominating the region.
Perhaps this was precipitated by the death of grandson Charles Vance P.
This would explain the assignment of the dominant marker in the plot to
C.V.P.

If this alternative has merit, it might also serve to cast some
uncertainty on the birth year of David Poythress stated on the stone
(1800). Perhaps the stone was carved more than 20 years after David's
death. Perhaps an error was made at the time, or an earlier error was
propagated.

In my own experience I am aware of such cases of relocation of remains
from family cemeteries to church or municipal cemeteries. the remains of
my grandfather, Leonard Poythress, was removed from the Poythress-Davis
cemetery in Brodnax, Brunswick Co., Va. to the municipal cemetery in
LaCrosse, Mecklenburg Co., Va. I believe the practice was a common one.

Lynn, your observations are well taken and I would like very much to discover
the facts surrounding this family plot. The dominent marker you mention
though I remember as being very tall and the centerpiece with just the name
POYTHRESS carved on it. Charles David and his wife are buried to the left of
this marker and David and his grandson Charles Vance to the right.

Judy, I'm looking forward to copies of those pictures you took there to see
if I remember this correctly.

I spoke with James Morgan, the custodian for the Elmwood Cemetery this
morning about its history. There is a prominent family in Henderson by the
name of Davis. And in the early 1800's this was a private family cemetery for
them. However, there are gravestones which are dated in the 1700's there too.
The Davis family managed the cemetery, either selling lots or giving them
away until the 1930's when they deeded the land to the city.

He told me that Henderson, now in Vance County was created by the general
assembly in 1840 and was originally in Granville County.

And he has no knowledge of when our family plot was developed there.

Charles Vance Poythress, the son of Charles David died in Henderson in 1908
and based on a newspaper article of his death, he was buried in Henderson
from the Methodist Episcopal Church.

Your speculation that perhaps the graves were relocated is a good one.
Indiana Poythress, wife of Charles David was living in Henderson when Charles
Vance died and perhaps the loss of this son prompted her to relocate Charles
David and his father David to Elmwood.

Best,
Barbara (BPW)

P. S.
When David died, Charles David moved his mother (Sally Dortch) to Manson, not
too far from Middleburg. And I think one of her daughters (which would be one
of Charles David's younger sisters) lived there. So another puzzle, why
isn't she there in the Elmwood Cemetery too?		09/03/1997 9:45:42
Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Charles NealRegina Roper,

Welcome aboard. While I have no info to contribute on your query, I recall
that someone else recently was asking about the Poythress-Cogan/Coggin
connection. Hopefully you will get some response from that person, but if
not, I'm sure one of the folks who save all the messages could dredge the
other query up for you.

Barbara Poythress Neal 9/3/97		09/03/1997 9:48:28
Re: Poythress DortchCharles NealDear All,

In my Poythress family line, I have an instance parallel to what may have
happened on the William Dortch & Sarah Poythres marriage, which JSCC1
listed as Mecklenburg Co, and which BPW found in Warren Co, NC records.

These 2 counties are right across the state-line (VA/NC) from one another,
by the way, for anyone who might not realize that.

Anyway, in my family, Joshua Lewis Poythress (the eldest son of James
Edward Poythress) is shown in a family record (which I re-transcribed & had
published in The Magazine of Virginia Genealogy in the May 1995 issue, in
an article titled "Poythress and Preston Family Record") as having married
Elizabeth Crowder on 17 Oct 1852 in Mecklenburg Co, VA.

I had searched again & again in Mecklenburg records for any corresponding
proof, to no avail. Then I happened upon Brent Holcomb's volume
__Marriages of Bute and Warren Counties, North Carolina, 1764-1868__ (same
volume that you quoted, BPW re Wm & Sarah) which transcribed info from the
marriage bond book of Warren from microfilm at the NC Dept of Archives &
History (roll not identified), and in there I found the following, which I
have now ordered a copy from microfilm so I can see for myself:

"Poythress, Joshua L. & Elizabeth J. Crowder [bond dated] 30 Sep 1852; John
J. Rainey, bondsman;
R.B. Robinson, wit; m. 30 Sept 1852 by R.B.Robinson"

It was a real thrill for me to find it in the Holcomb volume, especially
since one of those computerized-index listings had transcribed that same
Warren Co, NC marriage as being between JOSEPH Poythress & Elizabeth
Crowder.

It is possible that the originals may have additional info not transcribed
by anyone yet, re both marriages (those of Sarah Poythres and of Joshua).

It is VERY exciting to realize that whatever you have been looking at,
JSCC1, since it obviously is not the Warren Co, NC marriage record, is
probably SOME sort of family record (whether recently created or earlier
created) that NONE of us have seen, and which can contribute additional
tidbits for a lot of us, and for a lot of Poythress and Dortch researchers
for decades to come.

Please tell us more about it.

Barbara Poythress Neal 9/3/97 9:25 pm Pacific time
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/03/1997 10:31:45
The mystery researcherMy mother called tonight about the mystery lady that Maynard refered to
on 8/28, who is researching at the archives.

Mother says that she knows who this woman is, and that she is a
geneaologist who goes to the archives every Tuesday, and who has worked with
my mother on previous occasions during the past fifteen years.

When Mother saw the copy of Maynard's inquiry about who this woman could
be, Mother called her, and explained the interest as to who she is.
Apparently, this woman, who lives in South Carolina, is unable to take on
future projects/reasearch jobs at this time, and therefore requested that
Mother not reveal her name to the group right now. She is not a Poythress,
and her interest in the families is more professional than personal.

Well, that's all I have.

Alice Dixon		09/03/1997 10:42:23
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Albert R. TimsRegina,

Welcome to the Poythress list and thanks for the kind words about our web
page. We're still building, but hopefully are moving in the right
direction.

Your query touches on several issues of some ongoing controversy. The
Poythress-Pace connection has been discounted by some of the Pace
researchers. You might want to visit the Pace web page for some of that
history. Maynard Poythress initiated a general query and was chided for
even asking the question. It would be interesting to see how your
information compares to what Maynard found.

As for Rebecca Cogan, please see the allied family section of our web page
under Wall - Poythress. This overview identifies Rebecca Cogan/Coggan as
the wife of Francis Poythress (oldest son of our original immigrant) also
named Francis Poythress. Lou Poole may have additional information on the
Cogan family.

Both of these are items of interest to several of us. I'm sure you'll get
additional responses.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
> From: Regina A. Roper
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)
> Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 9:47 PM
>
>
> Hi. I am new to the list. Have also checked out the website and it is
among
> the top 3 I have seen!
>
> I have a line that I am hoping someone can elaborate on for me.
>
> It is:
>
> Frances Poythress married Rebecca (Cogan?)
> their daughter Rebecca Poythress (c1675-aft 1736) married Richard PACE.
>
> Richard Pace left a will probated Feb 1738 in Bertie CO NC
> children:
> Richard 1700-1779 m 1723 Elizabeth Cain
> William 1702-1775 m Selah Boykin
> THOMAS (my line) c1704-will prob 1765 Northampton NC m Amelia Mildred
Boykin
> Ann m ___Stewart
> Rebecca m #1 John Bradford #2 William Aycock
> Amy m ___Green
> Tabitha m John Moore
> Frances m ___Green
> Margaret m Wm Johnson
> Sarah m ___House
>
> I would appreciate any information about the ancestors of Francis and/or
> Rebecca (Cogan?)
>
> My line continues on down from Thomas Pace and Amelia Boykin through AMEY
> who married Solomon Strickland.
>
> Willing to share what I have.
>
> Regina Roper		09/03/1997 10:45:11
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina A. RoperThank you Barbara. I will be on the lookout.
Regina

On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Charles Neal wrote:

> Regina Roper,
>
> Welcome aboard. While I have no info to contribute on your query, I recall
> that someone else recently was asking about the Poythress-Cogan/Coggin
> connection. Hopefully you will get some response from that person, but if
> not, I'm sure one of the folks who save all the messages could dredge the
> other query up for you.
>
> Barbara Poythress Neal 9/3/97
>
>		09/04/1997 5:13:59
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina A. RoperThis is most interesting.
Does anyone have the URL to the PACE webpage? I would surely like to check
it out.
I am sorry that "my side" of the family are a bunch of genealogy snobs
(). Hopefully I will make up for them.
Thanks also for the info on where to look for the info on Rebecca on the
webpage.
Regina

On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Albert R. Tims wrote:

> Regina,
>
> Welcome to the Poythress list and thanks for the kind words about our web
> page. We're still building, but hopefully are moving in the right
> direction.
>
> Your query touches on several issues of some ongoing controversy. The
> Poythress-Pace connection has been discounted by some of the Pace
> researchers. You might want to visit the Pace web page for some of that
> history. Maynard Poythress initiated a general query and was chided for
> even asking the question. It would be interesting to see how your
> information compares to what Maynard found.
>
> As for Rebecca Cogan, please see the allied family section of our web page
> under Wall - Poythress. This overview identifies Rebecca Cogan/Coggan as
> the wife of Francis Poythress (oldest son of our original immigrant) also
> named Francis Poythress. Lou Poole may have additional information on the
> Cogan family.
>
> Both of these are items of interest to several of us. I'm sure you'll get
> additional responses.
>
> Best,
> Al Tims
>
> ----------
> > From: Regina A. Roper
> > To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> > Subject: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)
> > Date: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 9:47 PM
> >
> >
> > Hi. I am new to the list. Have also checked out the website and it is
> among
> > the top 3 I have seen!
> >
> > I have a line that I am hoping someone can elaborate on for me.
> >
> > It is:
> >
> > Frances Poythress married Rebecca (Cogan?)
> > their daughter Rebecca Poythress (c1675-aft 1736) married Richard PACE.
> >
> > Richard Pace left a will probated Feb 1738 in Bertie CO NC
> > children:
> > Richard 1700-1779 m 1723 Elizabeth Cain
> > William 1702-1775 m Selah Boykin
> > THOMAS (my line) c1704-will prob 1765 Northampton NC m Amelia Mildred
> Boykin
> > Ann m ___Stewart
> > Rebecca m #1 John Bradford #2 William Aycock
> > Amy m ___Green
> > Tabitha m John Moore
> > Frances m ___Green
> > Margaret m Wm Johnson
> > Sarah m ___House
> >
> > I would appreciate any information about the ancestors of Francis and/or
> > Rebecca (Cogan?)
> >
> > My line continues on down from Thomas Pace and Amelia Boykin through AMEY
> > who married Solomon Strickland.
> >
> > Willing to share what I have.
> >
> > Regina Roper
>
>		09/04/1997 5:22:17
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina....nice to hear from you.

Your first generation is right on target. Francis P. did indeed marry
Rebecca
Coggin/Coggins/Cogan/etc.

Your second generation Richard Pace m. Rebecca Poythress has been accepted in
genealogical circles almost forever. The line goes " Richard Pace m. Rebecca
Poythress and removed to Bertie County, N. C." You will (if you haven't
already) find this line in just about every book and/or genealogical
publication except ONE.

The Pace Society (http://users.aol.com/pacenetwk/pace.htm) now seems to have
reasonably accurate data indicating that Richard Pace's bride was Rebecca
Somebody-Else.

Suggest you try that address...I think you'll find it productive. They also
have on that page a list of references that I had compiled on that marriage
that I had been sending to Pace inquirers until the Pace Society's data
showed up (presumably superceding my information) and I then began to just
refer folks to the Pace site.

Best,

Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)

09/04/1997 6:49:06
WILLIAM GILLIAMWilliam Gilliam was born about 1719 in VA. He was married to Mary
Jarratt (b.1724), of New Kent Co., VA. William Gilliam is said to be the son
of a William Gilliam and his wife, Anne Poythress. I am interested in
locating documentation that would verify this information. If true, I'd
also like to obtain information regarding Anne Poythress. Was she the
daughter of John and Mary (Batte) Poythress?

Your response is appreciated.

Charles Ward
CMW12635@aol.com		09/04/1997 8:42:00
Dr. John Coggan/Cogin, etc.JAMES L. POOLEI am far from an expert on the good Doctor, but since the subject
came up in several posts today, will contribute a summary of what I
know.

Dr. John Coggan/Cogin had to be one of the earliest bona-fide
"characters" of the colonies -- Thank Goodness! He was a resident of
what was then Charles City County (south side) whose records were
burned. But because he appeared in court so often, we get some
glimpse into his character, who he married, and from where he came.
You will find him mentioned often and frequently in Fleet's
"Virginia Colonial Abstracts," Vol. III.

From these records, we know that he was in America prior to 1653, and
that he was from Bristol, England.

"Abstract. Power of Atty. 25 Aug. 1658. Major John Harper Capt
Thomas Morgan and Robt Dessell, Citizens of the City of Bristol to
John Cogan of the City of Bristol 'but now resident in Virginia
aforesd chirugeon,' to receive certain properties belonging to
Margaret Bird. 'Whereas Margarett Bird of the sd Citty of Bristoll
widd (admr'ix of the goods and chattells that were of Capt Richd Bond
late dec'd some-times of the Citty of Bristoll but dyed in the
Countrey of Virginia) hath constituted and appointed as her attorneys
concerning the mill plantacon stock goods merchandizies and debts
w'ch were off the sd Capt Rich'd Bond as may apper'e.' Wit: Richard
Price, John Osborne, ffra: Yeamans Junr. Rec 31 Janry 1658/9 [Note:
This entry may be more important than we think. I tried to be
particularly careful in regard to the names 'Bird' and 'Bond.'
B.F.]"

We know that by 1658, he had married the widow of Richard Tye, a
prominent mover and shaker of the area:

"Itt is ordered that mr John Cogan who married the relict and exer'x
of Capt Richd Tye dec'd pay to mr Tho: Drewe the sum of 1313 lb of
good tobbo and cask and 71: 17s 8d sterl money found due by acc'ot
assigned from Howell Pryse with costs, als exec."

He originally appeared in the records in the vicinity of Merchant's
Hope (now in Prince George, just outside Hopewell, Va.), as evidenced
by the following example:

"Abstract. Indenture. 10 Oct. 1659. John Cogan of Merchants Hope
in Cha. City Co. chirurgeon, sells Anthony Wyatt of Chaplines Choice
in same Co. gent., for bond for ?240 Sterling, dated 1st Sept. 1659,
the plantation 'whereon he now dwelleth,' 5 negro servants, crops,
etc. Signed Jno. Cogan. Wit: Robert Wynne, Howell Pryse Cl. Rec 28
Oct. 1659"

By about 1679, he had moved to Surry County:

"JanRy. 6th. 1679... Wm. Rowland Nonsuits Jno. Coggan he not
appeareing to prosecute his accon, Damadge according to Law with
Costs ali. Exec."

[1 May 1683] "Mr. Jno. Coggan haveing arrested Wm. Rowland to this
Cort & not appeareing to Pse-cute nor noebody for him, An Nonsuite is
granted the said Rowland against the said Coggan damadge ac-cording
to Law with Costs als. Excn."

And in an interesting Surry County record that suggests some yet
undiscovered family ties is this little tidbit:

"Edwards, Peter: Leg. - daughter Jeane my cattle, after Mr. Richard
Lovegrove hath his share; John Coggan. I desire that my daughter may
live with Mr. John Moore of Scotland [Neck - in Surry County,
di-rectly across the James River from Jamestown] in the western
branch of the Nansemond. Daughter now six years old. At decease of
John Moore and his wife, my child to return to John Coggan and his
wife. Overseers, Richard Lovegrove and John Coggan. D. ____ R. 1
May 1682. Wit. John Moore, Thomas Underwood."

[There was a relationship, by marriage, of John Coggan and John
Moore, through the marriage of one of John Moore's daughters to John
Coggan, Jr. -- see below -- but more is implied in the above, I
think.]

It would appear that by 1695, John Coggan had moved to Isle of Wight
County, and the following Isle of Wight records suggest strongly that
he had a son named John in the same county:

"Denson, Will: Appraisors of estate John Coggan Sen. and John Moore.
9 September 1695"
"Thornton, John: Leg. - son William; daughter Ellinor; wife
Willmuth, at her decease to her two sons, Richard and Robert Sims
(?). D. 3 April 1687. R. 1 May 1688. Wit. John Coggan Jr., Thomas
Gale."

John Coggan/Cogin, etc., SR, disappears from the records after 1695,
so he must have died about that time. John Coggan, JR., from whom I
am also descended married the daughter of John Moore named in one of
the above records.

Boddie, in his "Historical Southern Families," Vol. IV, says this
about John Coggan, Sr:

"Francis Poythress [b. ca. 1630; d. 1688] m. Rebecca Coggin,
daughter of John Coggin. As Rebecca Poythress, she was granted 1000
acres of land in Charles City 28 April 1692, said land being late in
the tenure of Edward Ardington. She later married (2) Charles
Bartholomew, the widower of her sister. This resulted in court
action, as according to the ecclesiastical law in effect in Virginia
at that time, this constituted an incestuous marriage."

"John Coggin or Coggan, the father of Rebecca Poythress, was an
early settler and physician in Charles City. He m. (1) a daughter of
Gregory Bland; (2) the relict and executrix of Capt. Richard Tye,
another early citizen, but it is not known if she were the mother of
his children."

Boddie cites "Charles City Court Minutes 1687-1695" for proof of the
statement that Rebecca (Coggan) Poythress was the daughter of John
Coggan and the wife of Francis Poythress. I have not been able to
locate the original record, nor did I find this information in
Beverley Fleet's book. If someone has access to Virginia records,
this would be an important fact to confirm.

I have not found any substantiation of the first marriage to "a
daughter of Gregory Bland." In the records, above, I provided proof
that John Coggan married the widow of Richard Tye.

Other than the assertion, above, that Rebecca was a daughter of John
Coggan, and the circumstantial evidence that John Coggan, Jr., was
his son, I have not seen ANY list of children for this old rascal.
Nor do I know how many, much less the names, of any children of his
second wife, the widow of Richard Tye. She probably had children
from her first marriage, and may very well have had children from her
second. I am reasonably certain from analyzing dates that John
Coggan, Jr. -- at least -- was NOT a son of the widow, but of the
first wife.

If you've gotten this far, then you probably are interested in John
Coggan. To whet your appetite for some of what you'll find in the
records, the following are a few selections:

[3 Aug 1661] "To the worp'll Co'rt of Chas Citty Com Rich'd Parker
on the behalfe of his Ma'tie im-peecheth and accuseth mr John Cogan
for a Cheater and destroyer of his Mat's subjects And therefore
humbly imploreth tha he be taken notice of, and proceeded against
accordingly Aug: 3. 1661 Rich Parker. Rec 7br. 17. 61. The charge
of Rich'd Parker exhibited against mr John Cogan is referred to the
sixth day of the next Quarter Co'rt."

"The court haveing respited and referred severall crude Comp'lts of
John Cogan for want of cleere profe therein, and haveing rec'd
severall other frivolous Compl'ts of the sd Cogan do expell those
triviall Compl'ts as tending rather to contencon, then to deserve
exai'acon."

"Jury inter Cogan and Simonds: Mr Ferdinando Aston foreman, Mr Richd
Mosby, Mr Sanders Davison, Mr Peter Plum'er, Mr Robt Jones, Mr Moris
Rose, Mr Richd Price, Mr Tho: Calloway, Mr Geo Barefoot, Mr Stephen
Hamelin, Mr James Wallace, Mr Cornel Clemance. Verdict Wee find
that the petn't Mr John Cogan was beaten by Robt Simonds. Whereas
Jno Cogan sued Robt Simonds for an assault com'itted on the person of
the sd Cogan, whereby his cheeke bone was broken, beside a defect
thereby oc-casioned in his eyes, and other damages susteined wch
cawse (as Matter of Fact) was referred to Law and exa'iacon of a J
ury, who returne their Verdict that they find that thhe sd Cogan was
beaten by the sd Simonds, (as a matter of Law) to the Court. x x x
(Simonds ordered to pay Cogan 4000 lb tobo and remain in sherr
custody until he does so) x x x."

"The Deposicon of Robt Potter aged thirty and nine yeares or
thereabouts sworne and exa'ied saith as foll that being in the howse
of Sara Potter there mett Mr Jn'o Cogan and Willm Wilkins, betwixt
whom passed severall words of Ill and abusive language given to each
other upon w'ch they fell to Collering, in w'ch scuffle the sd Jn'o
Cogan was on the ground flung by Wm Wilkins of w'ch fall Jno Cogan
rec'd a black eye and a scarr on one of his lipps further the sd
Wilkins lying on the ground upon Jno Cogan, a dog of the house seized
upon one of the Leggs of Wm Wilkins and bitt him the w'ch wound Jn'o
Cogan dressed and gave him medicines to carry w'th him and further
saith not. Robert Potter. [Note: this delightful little social
incident at Mrs Potter's country home on the James is a relief after
some other entries in this old record book. Robert does not state
who kicked the dog out of the scramble. Probably Mrs. Potter. Note
Dr. Cogan's professional ethics - yet here the childlike 17th century
mind again - he sues Wilkins. B. F.]"

Lou Poole		09/04/1997 8:46:38
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina A. RoperBoy,
I didn't even know there WAS a PACE SOCIETY.
I will check out the web site and see what shakes out.
Thank you, Maynard

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997 VKRatliff@aol.com wrote:

> Regina....nice to hear from you.
>
> Your first generation is right on target. Francis P. did indeed marry
> Rebecca
> Coggin/Coggins/Cogan/etc.
>
> Your second generation Richard Pace m. Rebecca Poythress has been accepted in
> genealogical circles almost forever. The line goes " Richard Pace m. Rebecca
> Poythress and removed to Bertie County, N. C." You will (if you haven't
> already) find this line in just about every book and/or genealogical
> publication except ONE.
>
> The Pace Society (http://users.aol.com/pacenetwk/pace.htm) now seems to have
> reasonably accurate data indicating that Richard Pace's bride was Rebecca
> Somebody-Else.
>
> Suggest you try that address...I think you'll find it productive. They also
> have on that page a list of references that I had compiled on that marriage
> that I had been sending to Pace inquirers until the Pace Society's data
> showed up (presumably superceding my information) and I then began to just
> refer folks to the Pace site.
>
> Best,
>
> Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)
>		09/04/1997 10:12:30
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina:

The URL for the site is> http://users.aol.com/pacenetwk/pace.htm

I believe the e-mail adds is> pacenetwk@aol.com

I didn't mean to imply they were snobbish even if they were a tad
"over-certain" on matters which none of us really has nailed down.

Good luck.

Maynard

09/05/1997 1:10:05
Re: The mystery researcherYo! Glad you wrapped that one up for us Alice!

I would also guess your mother was the one who prompted the "orphans of"
question
which signals to me that the lady in question is not particularly spending
days and nights working on same lines we are but was likely just checking
that one point for your mother.....since I have been corresponding with your
mother and that question is on her agenda just like it has been on the minds
of some of the group.

Since the lady doesn't want to be disturbed why, we'll just leave her
undisturbed.....unless or until she herself wants to get into "our chase".

Best,

Maynard

09/05/1997 1:18:17
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Hi,

I am the one who also descends through Richard PACE and Rebecca (Poythress),
through their daughter Rebecca PACE who md. William AYCOCK.

Heather
Lanehunts@aol.com

09/05/1997 2:30:55
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Heather,

I am an aol user and also on the Poythress list. Sorry, not related as far
as I know to yours...but I have to ask...are you getting mail 3 days late?
This has been going on for about 3 days and my son in Colorado Springs is
having a heck of a time e-mailing me. Almost NO mail yesterday and very
little today. Is yours the same? I am in Delaware. Where are you?

Caroline		09/05/1997 3:22:50
AWFUL mail delay?POYTHRESS and All mail 3 days latePlease excuse me, Al and Barbara, and everyone on the list but I am a bit
perterbed.

Is everyone having this awful delay in mail? Of course I am on AOL but I
got NO mail (okay one or two but even they were a day or so late, not when
they were posted.) And then, today I have received mail written two or three
days ago. What's up? Does anyone know?

My son in Colorado Springs sent me what was supposedly an urgent message
two days ago. Got it this afternoon in Delaware. HE is not on AOL or
rootsweb. He's on WORLDNET.ATT.NET. Anyone else on other systems having this
problem?

Caroline Burnett Cook

09/05/1997 3:34:42
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina,
You have some really good info there. I am interested in the Northampton NC
ones. What other info do you have in that direction. I have a Richard b. 1847
which is the earliest of my line.

Thanks for any help.

Bruce Porter
Portermom1@aol.com		09/05/1997 3:56:25
AWFUL mail delay?POYTHRESS and All mail 3 days lateCharles NealCaroline,

I think it must just be that your server for AOL has had some kink in its
system (which can periodically happen to any big server). Mine has been
steadily arriving much faster than what you described -- usually on the
same day or the following day that messages were drafted.

By the way, that is WHY I try to remember to put the date that I draft &
send out my messages in each message, so that folks can see when they are
experiencing delay, and so that they can put various days'-worth of
incoming messages in some chronological order for following a thread, which
is difficult to do when one gets 5 days worth of stuff in one lump of mail
after such a delay.

BarbPoythressNeal 9/5/97 7 pm Pacific time		09/05/1997 8:39:04
Sarah G. POYTHRESS & Standley info, tooCharles NealLyn,

Apparently YOU at least have seen some additional message(s) from JSCC1,
since you refer to him as John P. and you attribute info from him for the
marriage being in Warren rather than Mecklenburg as mentioned in the one
message I saw; & Dortch Census info in Southampton Co, VA 1850; & a Wm
Dortch - Eliz.Mise marriage; and finally an Alvin Dortch - Glover marriage.

Would you please send me a copy of all message(s) from him, since I have
not seen any beyond the first one quoted by Maynard on 9/2/97?

(In the only one I saw, JSCC1 said that he was trying to locate info on
the family of Wm Dortch & Sarah Poythres, married 31 Jan 1837 in
Mecklenburg Co; children were Martha, Jasper, Alvin, & Tom. Could Sarah be
dtr of Meredith & Hester...?)

Thank you so much for your thorough analysis of the situation to date.

I am not, by the way directly descended from James Speed Poythress like
Patti Poythress Koscheski and Al Tims are. I am descended from James
Edward Poythress who was supposedly the uncle of James Speed Poythress, so
I am probably in the same overall family line as James Speed Poythress, but
then I think ALL of us are probably in the same overall family line, just
further back than that.

Thanks to your suggestion, I will tomorrow call the patriarch of my family
line, who lives in Petersburg, VA, to inquire about Dortch relations, since
I do not specifically recall if I have previously asked about that
connection.

I KNOW already, however, that we had a Standley/Stanley connection in my
particular line -- but on the Preston side when Frances Preston (sister of
Catherine Preston, who married James Edward Poythress) married Benjamin
Stanley 15 Jan 1824, which was sadly followed by Frances' death one year
later on 25 Jan 1825 in Brunswick Co, VA. (Frances was born 17 April 1796
Brunswick Co, VA.)

I also KNOW that this Preston family had connections with Mecklenburg Co,
thru Catherine & James Edward Poythress, at least, and I speculate that the
Prestons lived in that portion of Brunswick very near the Mecklenburg line.

Since there was also that marriage we are aware of between Rebecca L.
Poythress and Benjamin Standley 22 Jan 1832 in Mecklenburg Co, VA, I have
tried several queries aimed at Stanley/Standley researchers to determine if
this was the same Benjamin who married first Frances, and then after she
died, 7 years later married Rebecca L.

I have photographed a very old tintype that was in a little photograph
album that belonged to Catherine Preston (Mrs. James Edward Poythress),
which is a tintype labelled "Cousin Anna Stanley" with no further
identifying data. In the same album was another tintype of "Ned Cleaton."
Catherine's other sister, Nelly Preston, married John Cleaton in Oct. 1822,
so I don't know if "Ned" was their son, or a brother of John's, or his
father, or could've even been another name of John's (John Ned Cleaton?).
In THEORY, Anna could've been Catherine's niece from her deceased sister
Frances, while Ned may have been Catherine's nephew from her sister Nelly.
This album descended to James & Catherine's son Algernon Edward Poythress
(my ggfather) and then to Algernon's youngest son Bennie Edward Poythress
and then to Ben E. Poythress, Jr. (born in 1920) who is the above-mentioned
patriarch who I will try to call again tomorrow.

Ben only knew of any Standley/ Stanley connection because of the label on
this tintype of "Cousin Anna," so I don't hold out a lot of hope on any
Dortch info. But I certainly wouldn't get any Dortch info from him if I
fail to ask , so I will ask & see what pans out.

All for now. Please send the JSCC1 message(s) - THANKS!
Barbara 9/5/97 8:30 pm Pacific time
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/05/1997 9:36:08
DortchLea L. DowdI have had wonderful assistance from Bill Dortch who is on Internet at
MTTS67A@prodigy.com with questions concerning this family. Perhaps he
would be able to help with your questions.

I am still looking for this lost Dortch

Elizabeth1 Bass married ? Dortch and had at least a daughter Elizabeth.

Lea		09/05/1997 10:33:07
Final Revisions-Augusta ChronicleThis has been sent to Al Tims as a new MS Word document for posting as a
replacement to the existing page on the site to include the two items
previously missing.

Comments:

*I have received the final (missing) two entries from Alice Walker at the
Augusta
Library. These are the event dates of 30 Jul 1821 and 6 Nov 1824 and these
two are in part the reason for the final repost.

*both of the new ones are Sheriff's sales....thereby making all of the
entries for Meredith Poythress, Sr. sherrif's sales of seized property.

*comments at the end of the post state my reasons for the assumption that all
of these entries pertain to Meredith Poythress, Sr. and none to Meredith, Jr.
Although
I will be pleased to make the change if documentation or supposition that is
better is offered, I believe the case that all of these Meredith entries are
for Senior is fairly compelling.

*Bad news....in answer to the question when will Vol. 5 (next issue name
index to Chronicle, for 1831 forward) be published, the answer from Alice
Walker was "it won't". Alice says her sight was "destroyed" by volumes 1
through 4, plus there are some big gaps in the issues of 1831-1840. She is
currently working on the
Depositors' Records of the Augusta Branch of the Freedman's Bank which I
guess would not to be a long term project. I have a hunch Alice is the kind
of gal to not do
half a job and that she will eventually finish the Chronicle. And, being
only about 40 or so, she may well live long enough to do it.

*I had earlier told someone (BPN I think) that I thought George at one time
or another foreclosed a mortgage on both Edward and Meredith, Sr. That is
incorrect; the record shows only the single foreclosure on Edward.

* if one is not particularly interested in the Meredith line per se, what is
to be gleaned from the above? Not much, except that from middle age forward
Meredith, Sr. appears to constantly be having financial difficulties, perhaps
offering a basis for some later suppositions relative to Meredith, Sr.'s
possible kinship to George, Edward, Francis, and/or Lewis Poythress.

Best,

Maynard		09/05/1997 11:42:12
PACE WEB SITE:Here it is: http://users.aol.com/pacenetwrk/pace.htm

Heather

09/05/1997 12:40:58
Sarah G. POYTHRESSDear Poythress List,

It was good to hear from John P. (JSCC1@aol.com - surname not provided)
regarding his possible ancestor Sarah G. POYTHRESS. We have before us an
hypothesis of Sarah G. POYTHRESS as daughter of Lewis POYTHRESS. This is
offered as a summary of the circumstantial evidence I detect in support
of this hypothesis:

1) The 1802 marriage of Lewis POYTHRESS and Rebecca B. TAYLOR was
witnessed by John DORTCH.

2) Census records of 1820 and 1830 (Mecklenburg, VA) indicate two girls
in the Lewis POYTHRESS household, the younger born ca. 1815-20. This
younger girl is absent from the household in the 1840 census.

3) William A. DORTCH married Sarah G. POYTHRESS (Warren Co., NC, 1837).

4) David POYTHRESS, candidate son of Lewis POYTHRESS, married first Sally
DORTCH (Warren Co., NC, 1848) then Mary Speed DORTCH.

5) A DORTCH household in the 1850 Southampton Co., VA, census contains
William A. (32), Sally (35), Martha (12), Jasper (7), Alvin (5), Tom (3).

6) William A. DORTCH married Elizabeth A. MISE (Warren Co., NC, 1854),
George W. KING, bondsman.

7) There is a KING-MISE-TANNER family cemetery about a mile or so north
of the POYTHRESS family cemetery on Blackridge Road, Mecklenburg Co., VA.
Some of my ancestors on other lines are buried there.

8) Alvin DORTCH married Tennesse Jordan GLOVER (Mecklenburg Co., VA,
1866) and may have listed parents as William and Sarah.

Thanks to BPW for items (3) and (4). Thanks to John P. for items (3),
(5), (6) and (8). List members, your corrections and additions to the
evidence are heartily solicited. Further information on this connection
could be of immediate help in resolving the parentages of James and David
POYTHRESS, where at least three of our researchers - BPW, BPN and Judy
Speed Scruggs - are currently stuck.

One further practical suggestion for BPN and Judy: Contact the oldest
surviving Poythress descendant on your line and ask them if they ever
heard THEIR "OLD FOLKS" speak of a DORTCH relation, and, if so, in what
context. Perhaps you have used this technique; it has served me well
before. Sorry, BPW, but I do not believe this would work for you because
of your other DORTCH connections. In a similar vein, any of the four of
us could inquire as to a STANDLEY relation (husband of Rebecca L.
POYTHRESS).

Best regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		09/05/1997 12:48:25
Francis' Baptism RecordPat and Maurice, if you don't ever find anything else in your life this one
was like finding the Hope diamond lying in the street....so you are ahead of
the game for life.

I posed this question before to Al and don't think I phrased it very well but
if this is our guy (and it has every probability in the world going for it)
shouldn't we ask ourselves just in the interest of critical examination why
the guy was NOT baptised at birth? (I'm assuming a birth date at least a few
years prior to the1609 baptism because Francis was in America literate and
doing business in a fairly significant mercantile capacity in 1633 and
probably even earlier) I know they did things at earlier ages then but 24 is
still pushing it.

So I called my Rector (C of E in the Colonies) to chat about it. My first
question was "gee, have I been wrong all these years assuming that one was
always either baptised at birth or in extremis back in those days because
infant mortality was high and the parents didn't want to foreclose the
infant's potential trip to heaven by allowing him or her to die unbaptised ?"

"Or, was "baptism" something less than "confirmation" and confirmation was
the big one because it implied "free will" so baptism was relatively
insignificant compared to confirmation? Or did they even have confirmations
AT ALL back in 1609?

My guy said, gee that's intriguing, let me do some reading and I'll get back
to you.

He did his reading and his answer was....."yes, there was the inclination to
infant baptism...but the real pattern was "no pattern".... local customs were
at such a wide variance that an infant or child could have been baptised at
almost any time. Remember, you could live your whole life and not visit the
next town 10 miles away in 1600's. About the only thing that was consistent
was the notion that if death seemed to be at hand for anyone of any age, they
tried to work in baptism before death if the person had not already been
baptised.

I suppose that left me with about as much as I could have expected....that if
1609 meant a child past infancy was baptised that was not particularly
remarkable....and the date should not be a clue on which to draw any
inferences one way or the other as to whether this person was "our" Francis
or not.

Anybody care to comment on that one? Should we leave a question in our minds
about a 1609 baptism or is the matter just a "throw away" as the right Rev is
inclined to say?

Best,

Maynard		09/06/1997 1:17:39
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)Regina A. RoperHi. I know this is not the PACE list but wanted to reply to this in case
there are others from our line.

This is what I have on the POYTHRESS/ PACE lineage, and I would be pleased
to hear ideas from all who have data to share to fill in blanks, correct
anything untrue that I am unaware of, and help substantiate things in
general.

I tried the PACE website at this address:
http://users.aol.com/pacenetwk/pace.htm

but received the message that the website was no longer active
is this the correct URL?

This is the line I have in my notes, you can see it is kind of SLIM in
places.

John Peterson (born?, died? from where?) married UNKNOWN
John Peterson II (b?d? where?) m Martha THWEATT (also no dates or origin)
Mary Peterson (no dates or origin) m. Capt. Francis POYTHRESS who was born
between 1580 and 1614 in London?? and died...no data...
Major Francis Poythress born c 1642 (where?) died (where?) married Rebecca
Cogan (no dates or origin)
Rebecca Poythress born c 1675 Charles City CO VA died after 1736 Bertie Co
NC married Richard Pace b c 1665-70 Chas CIty CO died bef Feb 1738 Bertie

For the PACE connection I have:
Richard Pace born c 1590 in Stepney, England died 5 Dec 1620 in Jamestown,
married 5 Oct 1608 in St Dunstans, Stepney, Middlesex, to ISABELLE SMYTHE
(dau of John of "Nibley"??) they came to USA 1611 on the MARMADUKE
Isabelle remarried after Richard died to Capt William Perry

George Pace b c 1610/1611 died c 1655/7 in CHarles City CO VA married Sarah
MAYCOCK, the daughter of Rev Samuel Maycock who was killed in the Indian
Massacre 21 Mar 1622. Sarah died 1652

Richard Pace b c 1634/8 in Chas City died 1677 same married Mary KNOWLES;
she admin his estate in 1677 and remarried Nicholas Whitmore

Richard Pace (c1665/70-by Feb 1738) who married REBECCA (POYTHRESS??)

I would appreciate any input from you guys.
You certainly have an active and intelligent parlay here on this list, a lot
better that the quibbling on a lot of lists.

Regina Roper
On Fri, 5 Sep 1997 Lanehunts@aol.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am the one who also descends through Richard PACE and Rebecca (Poythress),
> through their daughter Rebecca PACE who md. William AYCOCK.
>
> Heather
> Lanehunts@aol.com
>
>		09/06/1997 5:36:16
Re: Dr. John Coggan/Cogin, etc.Regina A. RoperThank you so much for posting this very interesting information!
Regina Roper

On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, JAMES L. POOLE wrote:

> I am far from an expert on the good Doctor, but since the subject
> came up in several posts today, will contribute a summary of what I
> know.
>
> Dr. John Coggan/Cogin had to be one of the earliest bona-fide
> "characters" of the colonies -- Thank Goodness! He was a resident of
> what was then Charles City County (south side) whose records were
> burned. But because he appeared in court so often, we get some
> glimpse into his character, who he married, and from where he came.
> You will find him mentioned often and frequently in Fleet's
> "Virginia Colonial Abstracts," Vol. III.
>
> >From these records, we know that he was in America prior to 1653, and
> that he was from Bristol, England.
>
> "Abstract. Power of Atty. 25 Aug. 1658. Major John Harper Capt
> Thomas Morgan and Robt Dessell, Citizens of the City of Bristol to
> John Cogan of the City of Bristol 'but now resident in Virginia
> aforesd chirugeon,' to receive certain properties belonging to
> Margaret Bird. 'Whereas Margarett Bird of the sd Citty of Bristoll
> widd (admr'ix of the goods and chattells that were of Capt Richd Bond
> late dec'd some-times of the Citty of Bristoll but dyed in the
> Countrey of Virginia) hath constituted and appointed as her attorneys
> concerning the mill plantacon stock goods merchandizies and debts
> w'ch were off the sd Capt Rich'd Bond as may apper'e.' Wit: Richard
> Price, John Osborne, ffra: Yeamans Junr. Rec 31 Janry 1658/9 [Note:
> This entry may be more important than we think. I tried to be
> particularly careful in regard to the names 'Bird' and 'Bond.'
> B.F.]"
>
> We know that by 1658, he had married the widow of Richard Tye, a
> prominent mover and shaker of the area:
>
> "Itt is ordered that mr John Cogan who married the relict and exer'x
> of Capt Richd Tye dec'd pay to mr Tho: Drewe the sum of 1313 lb of
> good tobbo and cask and 71: 17s 8d sterl money found due by acc'ot
> assigned from Howell Pryse with costs, als exec."
>
> He originally appeared in the records in the vicinity of Merchant's
> Hope (now in Prince George, just outside Hopewell, Va.), as evidenced
> by the following example:
>
> "Abstract. Indenture. 10 Oct. 1659. John Cogan of Merchants Hope
> in Cha. City Co. chirurgeon, sells Anthony Wyatt of Chaplines Choice
> in same Co. gent., for bond for ?240 Sterling, dated 1st Sept. 1659,
> the plantation 'whereon he now dwelleth,' 5 negro servants, crops,
> etc. Signed Jno. Cogan. Wit: Robert Wynne, Howell Pryse Cl. Rec 28
> Oct. 1659"
>
> By about 1679, he had moved to Surry County:
>
> "JanRy. 6th. 1679... Wm. Rowland Nonsuits Jno. Coggan he not
> appeareing to prosecute his accon, Damadge according to Law with
> Costs ali. Exec."
>
> [1 May 1683] "Mr. Jno. Coggan haveing arrested Wm. Rowland to this
> Cort & not appeareing to Pse-cute nor noebody for him, An Nonsuite is
> granted the said Rowland against the said Coggan damadge ac-cording
> to Law with Costs als. Excn."
>
> And in an interesting Surry County record that suggests some yet
> undiscovered family ties is this little tidbit:
>
> "Edwards, Peter: Leg. - daughter Jeane my cattle, after Mr. Richard
> Lovegrove hath his share; John Coggan. I desire that my daughter may
> live with Mr. John Moore of Scotland [Neck - in Surry County,
> di-rectly across the James River from Jamestown] in the western
> branch of the Nansemond. Daughter now six years old. At decease of
> John Moore and his wife, my child to return to John Coggan and his
> wife. Overseers, Richard Lovegrove and John Coggan. D. ____ R. 1
> May 1682. Wit. John Moore, Thomas Underwood."
>
> [There was a relationship, by marriage, of John Coggan and John
> Moore, through the marriage of one of John Moore's daughters to John
> Coggan, Jr. -- see below -- but more is implied in the above, I
> think.]
>
> It would appear that by 1695, John Coggan had moved to Isle of Wight
> County, and the following Isle of Wight records suggest strongly that
> he had a son named John in the same county:
>
> "Denson, Will: Appraisors of estate John Coggan Sen. and John Moore.
> 9 September 1695"
> "Thornton, John: Leg. - son William; daughter Ellinor; wife
> Willmuth, at her decease to her two sons, Richard and Robert Sims
> (?). D. 3 April 1687. R. 1 May 1688. Wit. John Coggan Jr., Thomas
> Gale."
>
> John Coggan/Cogin, etc., SR, disappears from the records after 1695,
> so he must have died about that time. John Coggan, JR., from whom I
> am also descended married the daughter of John Moore named in one of
> the above records.
>
> Boddie, in his "Historical Southern Families," Vol. IV, says this
> about John Coggan, Sr:
>
> "Francis Poythress [b. ca. 1630; d. 1688] m. Rebecca Coggin,
> daughter of John Coggin. As Rebecca Poythress, she was granted 1000
> acres of land in Charles City 28 April 1692, said land being late in
> the tenure of Edward Ardington. She later married (2) Charles
> Bartholomew, the widower of her sister. This resulted in court
> action, as according to the ecclesiastical law in effect in Virginia
> at that time, this constituted an incestuous marriage."
>
> "John Coggin or Coggan, the father of Rebecca Poythress, was an
> early settler and physician in Charles City. He m. (1) a daughter of
> Gregory Bland; (2) the relict and executrix of Capt. Richard Tye,
> another early citizen, but it is not known if she were the mother of
> his children."
>
> Boddie cites "Charles City Court Minutes 1687-1695" for proof of the
> statement that Rebecca (Coggan) Poythress was the daughter of John
> Coggan and the wife of Francis Poythress. I have not been able to
> locate the original record, nor did I find this information in
> Beverley Fleet's book. If someone has access to Virginia records,
> this would be an important fact to confirm.
>
> I have not found any substantiation of the first marriage to "a
> daughter of Gregory Bland." In the records, above, I provided proof
> that John Coggan married the widow of Richard Tye.
>
> Other than the assertion, above, that Rebecca was a daughter of John
> Coggan, and the circumstantial evidence that John Coggan, Jr., was
> his son, I have not seen ANY list of children for this old rascal.
> Nor do I know how many, much less the names, of any children of his
> second wife, the widow of Richard Tye. She probably had children
> from her first marriage, and may very well have had children from her
> second. I am reasonably certain from analyzing dates that John
> Coggan, Jr. -- at least -- was NOT a son of the widow, but of the
> first wife.
>
> If you've gotten this far, then you probably are interested in John
> Coggan. To whet your appetite for some of what you'll find in the
> records, the following are a few selections:
>
> [3 Aug 1661] "To the worp'll Co'rt of Chas Citty Com Rich'd Parker
> on the behalfe of his Ma'tie im-peecheth and accuseth mr John Cogan
> for a Cheater and destroyer of his Mat's subjects And therefore
> humbly imploreth tha he be taken notice of, and proceeded against
> accordingly Aug: 3. 1661 Rich Parker. Rec 7br. 17. 61. The charge
> of Rich'd Parker exhibited against mr John Cogan is referred to the
> sixth day of the next Quarter Co'rt."
>
> "The court haveing respited and referred severall crude Comp'lts of
> John Cogan for want of cleere profe therein, and haveing rec'd
> severall other frivolous Compl'ts of the sd Cogan do expell those
> triviall Compl'ts as tending rather to contencon, then to deserve
> exai'acon."
>
> "Jury inter Cogan and Simonds: Mr Ferdinando Aston foreman, Mr Richd
> Mosby, Mr Sanders Davison, Mr Peter Plum'er, Mr Robt Jones, Mr Moris
> Rose, Mr Richd Price, Mr Tho: Calloway, Mr Geo Barefoot, Mr Stephen
> Hamelin, Mr James Wallace, Mr Cornel Clemance. Verdict Wee find
> that the petn't Mr John Cogan was beaten by Robt Simonds. Whereas
> Jno Cogan sued Robt Simonds for an assault com'itted on the person of
> the sd Cogan, whereby his cheeke bone was broken, beside a defect
> thereby oc-casioned in his eyes, and other damages susteined wch
> cawse (as Matter of Fact) was referred to Law and exa'iacon of a J
> ury, who returne their Verdict that they find that thhe sd Cogan was
> beaten by the sd Simonds, (as a matter of Law) to the Court. x x x
> (Simonds ordered to pay Cogan 4000 lb tobo and remain in sherr
> custody until he does so) x x x."
>
> "The Deposicon of Robt Potter aged thirty and nine yeares or
> thereabouts sworne and exa'ied saith as foll that being in the howse
> of Sara Potter there mett Mr Jn'o Cogan and Willm Wilkins, betwixt
> whom passed severall words of Ill and abusive language given to each
> other upon w'ch they fell to Collering, in w'ch scuffle the sd Jn'o
> Cogan was on the ground flung by Wm Wilkins of w'ch fall Jno Cogan
> rec'd a black eye and a scarr on one of his lipps further the sd
> Wilkins lying on the ground upon Jno Cogan, a dog of the house seized
> upon one of the Leggs of Wm Wilkins and bitt him the w'ch wound Jn'o
> Cogan dressed and gave him medicines to carry w'th him and further
> saith not. Robert Potter. [Note: this delightful little social
> incident at Mrs Potter's country home on the James is a relief after
> some other entries in this old record book. Robert does not state
> who kicked the dog out of the scramble. Probably Mrs. Potter. Note
> Dr. Cogan's professional ethics - yet here the childlike 17th century
> mind again - he sues Wilkins. B. F.]"
>
> Lou Poole
>
>		09/06/1997 6:12:52
Mail DelayCouple of observations:

1) it strikes me that the complaints are not peculiar to AOL.

2) "dating" the messages doesn't seem to help, because when I get a "list
copy" of
my own message of three days prior...back to myself its dated the date I
pull it
down, not the date I sent it.

Maybe its sunspots or something.

Maynard		09/06/1997 9:29:30
Davis & PoythressCharles Neal9/6/97 8:30 pm

I notice that we not only see the Davis family name occurring in Brodnax,
VA (Brodnax is just inside Brunswick Co from the Mecklenburg side, or
perhaps actually straddling the county line) about 20 miles north of the
NC/VA stateline, but also occurring in Henderson, NC which is about 15
miles south of the NC/VA stateline (and just a bit west of Brodnax) where
the Davis family is the prominent family that previously owned the (family)
cemetery that has subsequently become Elmwood Cemetery.

It seems reasonable to me, that this Henderson, NC Davis family could be
descended from the Brodnax,VA Davis family.

Lyn, do you know why the Brodnax cemetery is called "Poythress-Davis
cemetery" -- Were the 2 families consecutive owners of property there (or
near there)? Or were the 2 families kin in some way?

It seems plausible to me that if that current Henderson, NC Davis family
has anyone actively working on their family history/genealogy (or even more
fortuitously, someone who has already done so), that they might have some
shreds of help for us on Poythress folks from 'way back when. Since you
have family in that area, and grew up in that area, do you know of anyone
in the Davis family that we could check with re that train of thought?

Also, you mentioned that both the Brodnax Poythress-Davis Cemetery, and the
Blackridge cemetery where Thomas M. Poythress (son of Lewis) is buried, are
owned by descendants of Lewis Poythress. Could you find out from each of
those descendants whether they might have either original, or copies of,
land surveys of Lewis' land? I would love to see a copy of any of the old
surveys that they might have. (One of my husband's cousins has framed in
his living room the original land survey from the early 1800s in GA of the
land he lives on. It really speaks to one, regarding the history of the
place.)

In 1972-1979, while we were living in Va. Beach, VA -- at least 12 years
before I ever began working on Poythress genealogy, and before I even knew
that my branch of the family moved to Sumter Co, AL from Mecklenburg Co, VA
-- we would drive thru on US 58 between Va Beach/Norfolk and I-85 South on
at least two trips a year for visits home to our folks in Atlanta &
Birmingham. I always felt a strong attraction -- a real pull -- to that
area when we would drive through it (Maybe Lewis was speaking to me ).
Kept wanting to stop and look around more, & stay a while, but we were
always driving marathon-style to make the entire trip in one long stint,
and usually going thru there in the middle of the night or wee hours of the
morning with our young daughters asleep in the back seat, so never could
stop. One of these days, I'll make it to that area and be able to spend a
little time there.

I talked with my Dad's first cousin, Ben Poythress, today. He vaguely
recognizes the name of Dortch, but not from the context of ever hearing
that our family was ever related to a Dortch family. He recently
celebrated his 77th birthday. He mentioned that he has for some time now
been wanting to drive down to Mecklenburg County, and see what he might be
able to find out about the Poythress family, but his health has not been
great and he just hasn't felt up to it. Wish I weren't all the way across
the country from there; I know if I could get by for another of my quickie
visits with him & his family that he would perk up again like he did the
time they showed me Blandford, and the time we went to Flower Dew for one
of the world's coldest, windiest picnics.

All for now.

Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/06/1997 9:33:15
Re: Francis' Baptism RecordRandy JonesActually, it has more to do with the religious denomination. In the
Anglican/Episcopal CHurch, which was the predominant church in colonial
Virginia, babies are christened/baptised usually within a year of birth,
although it can be done at any year. The child is then confirmed as a
full church member usually around the beginning of teen years.

Consequently, the parish baptismal records, many of which have survived, are
petty good indicators of birthdate, i.e. usually within a year.

- Randy Jones

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Randy Jones, Webmaster * government - /government *
Charlotte's Web * transportation - /trans.html *
rjones@charweb.org * community theatre - /arts/theatre.html*
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On Sat, 6 Sep 1997 VKRatliff@aol.com wrote:

> Pat and Maurice, if you don't ever find anything else in your life this one
> was like finding the Hope diamond lying in the street....so you are ahead of
> the game for life.
>
> I posed this question before to Al and don't think I phrased it very well but
> if this is our guy (and it has every probability in the world going for it)
> shouldn't we ask ourselves just in the interest of critical examination why
> the guy was NOT baptised at birth? (I'm assuming a birth date at least a few
> years prior to the1609 baptism because Francis was in America literate and
> doing business in a fairly significant mercantile capacity in 1633 and
> probably even earlier) I know they did things at earlier ages then but 24 is
> still pushing it.
>
> So I called my Rector (C of E in the Colonies) to chat about it. My first
> question was "gee, have I been wrong all these years assuming that one was
> always either baptised at birth or in extremis back in those days because
> infant mortality was high and the parents didn't want to foreclose the
> infant's potential trip to heaven by allowing him or her to die unbaptised ?"
>
> "Or, was "baptism" something less than "confirmation" and confirmation was
> the big one because it implied "free will" so baptism was relatively
> insignificant compared to confirmation? Or did they even have confirmations
> AT ALL back in 1609?
>
> My guy said, gee that's intriguing, let me do some reading and I'll get back
> to you.
>
> He did his reading and his answer was....."yes, there was the inclination to
> infant baptism...but the real pattern was "no pattern".... local customs were
> at such a wide variance that an infant or child could have been baptised at
> almost any time. Remember, you could live your whole life and not visit the
> next town 10 miles away in 1600's. About the only thing that was consistent
> was the notion that if death seemed to be at hand for anyone of any age, they
> tried to work in baptism before death if the person had not already been
> baptised.
>
> I suppose that left me with about as much as I could have expected....that if
> 1609 meant a child past infancy was baptised that was not particularly
> remarkable....and the date should not be a clue on which to draw any
> inferences one way or the other as to whether this person was "our" Francis
> or not.
>
> Anybody care to comment on that one? Should we leave a question in our minds
> about a 1609 baptism or is the matter just a "throw away" as the right Rev is
> inclined to say?
>
> Best,
>
> Maynard
>		09/06/1997 10:25:17
Hey Judy!!!! Hey Craig!!!!Check out today's Access Atlanta (http://www.accessatlanta.com).

The Friends of the National Archives (an Atlanta crowd)will have their annual
one day seminar at the Gwinnett Civic Center in Duluth, Ga. on 9/20. The
lead guy will be John Vogt, owner and Pres. of Iberian Press in Athens, Ga.
Don't ask me how he got to Athens but the guy's schtick is Virginia and he's
darn good at it.

According to today's article in Access Atlanta "most" of the days activities
will center around Vogt lecturing on research in Virginia in person and by
mail (including e-mail I would presume) with "special emphasis on burned
counties".

Now.....that one is a tempting high fast ball for us. I wouldn't ask you to
sit thru the whole (probably agonizing) thing but typically after the dance
is over one can buy audio tapes a week or so later and they usually aren't
very expensive. I would be happy pay the cost of a set, listen myself and
make the appropriate notes, and then mail the tapes on to the next person on
our list who had expressed an interest.

You mind checking around to see if they have thought of making tapes
available?
The hardcore genealogy folks almost always have tapes because they know its a
money maker for the organization. I have never heard of the Friends of the
National
Archives and don't know if they are swift enough to pick up on this or not.
Maybe if not, the suggestion might get them interested.

And, hey Craig.....you got any friends in that outfit? Maybe you could ask
too.

Many, many thanks,

Maynard		09/07/1997 6:50:17
Hey Judy!!!! Hey Craig!!!!Charles NealMaynard, Judy, and anyone else interested,

I have heard John Vogt present material in person, and he is very
interesting to listen to -- not in the least agonizing.

Barbara 9/7/97 6pm
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/07/1997 6:57:04
Re: Hey Judy!!!! Hey Craig!!!!Craig R. ScottMaynard and others, just so you will know that I am still here lurking in
the background (waiting to hear who Benjamin Poythress had for a wife and
parents). Let me share my thoughts on the following:

>The Friends of the National Archives (an Atlanta crowd)will have their annual
>one day seminar at the Gwinnett Civic Center in Duluth, Ga. on 9/20. The
>lead guy will be John Vogt, owner and Pres. of Iberian Press in Athens, Ga.
What some folks won't do to cut down mileage costs. Just last year the Cobb
Co. Genealogical Society had me for their all day speaker and then I went
over to John's house in Athens picked up a Jeep full of books (since I carry
his entire catalog), went out to dinner and spent the night. John and I are
old friends (he says that I introduced him to single malt scotch.) John also
was the publisher of my first five books and advised me on how to set up
Willow Bend. We talk all the time (on his 800 number of course.)

> Don't ask me how he got to Athens but the guy's schtick is Virginia and he's
>darn good at it.
He is orginally from the Valley. Page County to be exact. He used to teach
at UGA-Athens in Spanish History (I think; that accounts for the name
Iberian). His wife is a librarian at the University still.
>
>According to today's article in Access Atlanta "most" of the days activities
>will center around Vogt lecturing on research in Virginia in person and by
>mail (including e-mail I would presume) with "special emphasis on burned
>counties".

This means how the listener can research in person or by mail. John has a
computer guy that works for him and maintains his webpages (as well as
printing and binding books) and he is not the most email literate guy I ever
met so I would not guarentee that email will be included.
>
>Now.....that one is a tempting high fast ball for us. I wouldn't ask you to
>sit thru the whole (probably agonizing) thing

Gee, thanks. Come hear me in Urbana, Ill on the 24th and 25th of October and
see if I am agonizing.

but typically after the dance
>is over one can buy audio tapes a week or so later and they usually aren't
>very expensive.

These are usually only available at National Conferences such as the
National Genealogical Society Conference (in Denver next May, Richmond the
year after) or the Federation of Genealgoical Societies Confererence (in
Dallas last week, in Cincinati next fall). Tapes from back conferences are
also available.

I would be happy pay the cost of a set, listen myself and
>make the appropriate notes, and then mail the tapes on to the next person on
>our list who had expressed an interest.

We national speakers just love how much we lose in royalties every year
through this method. At least you did not say that you would copy a set and
send it on. Before you get excited, my tape royalties last year came to
$26.00 for six taped lectures. There are several available on Virginia
topics from a place called Repeat Performance. They have a webpage for
learning their availablity. John probably has this lecture (which I know he
has given before) available on tape already.

>
>

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		09/07/1997 8:03:01
Treasure of New InformationAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Many of you have sent me new information for the web pages and photos.
Great!.

I just returned from a long weekend up north in the boundary waters area of
northern Minnesota. burrr.... I'm not ignoring anyone -- just need to get
the rocks out of my socks and some sleep in a real bed. Will start
updating the web page tomorrow evening.

It was such a delight to come home to so much wonderful new information.

Maynard, I'd tend to agree with Pat and Maurice about Francis of Newent.
My reading of the law suit by Lawrence Evans suggests that the primary
factor for Evans died aboard ship and that Francis was somehow associated
with him. By all indications, Francis was already in Virginia during this
1633 voyage. I don't see his age as being as much of an issue as the lack
anything solid to connect Francis of Newent to Francis of Virginia.

My "theory" remains that Francis of Virginia was somehow associated with
the Bristol Company. Just a theory -- no proof, yet. But it was this
theory that set me to looking in Bristol and Gloucestershire for his
origins. If so, then Francis of Newent elevates another notch or two as
our most likely candidate. I know all of us want to be especially cautious
about this all important ancestor.

Best,

Al Tims		09/07/1997 8:38:58
Baptism of FrancisMaynard,
Thanks for the message. It is possible that Francis was baptized at a
few years old but I think it would have been more usual in the 1600s to
have a baby christened in it's first few months.
Why do you assume that 24 was too young to be involved in mercantile
matters? Life was short in those days and children were often full time
workers by the age of 10. Admittedly this is usually in the poorer
families but we still think Francis could have been involved in business
matters by the age of 18. The family were certainly not one of the
poorer ones or there would not have been Newent property changing hands
at the time of John Poythres's death.
My ancestor Christopher was, I think, the younger brother of Francis and
he was baptized in 1616 in Worcester to John of Newent. So John
obviously spent some time away from Gloucestershire probably for
business matters. Worcester is on the river Severn, as is Gloucester and
Bristol and from any of these places Francis could have set sail for
America. Francis Drake was born in 1540 and by the age of 25 he was
voyaging to Guinea and the Spanish Main and had been involved in coastal
trade for some years before that. He was in command of a ship by the age
of 27. We see no reason why our ancestor should not have been equally
capable.
We would still love to know how Francis got to America.
Best wishes,
Pat & Maurice		09/07/1997 9:10:48
Re: Hey Judy!!!! Hey Craig!!!!Hey, neat, Barb. Would you speculate that a tape of his would be worth the
trouble?
It almost looked to me like the guy had intended his lecture for us.

Maynard

09/07/1997 9:25:42
Re TapesCharles NealMaynard,

As Craig said, the John Vogt probably has already been taped at the
national level giving this speech, and YES the tape would be worth your
hard-earned cash . Repeat Performances is the place that tapes all the
national level conferences; they do a very good job.

BPN 9/7/97 9:25 pm		09/07/1997 10:20:52
Fwd: WINN, early VA file offerI received this and I thought I would pass it along! I know that Mary, wife
of Maj. Francis POYTHRESS md. second to Robert WINN, so thought thismight
interest some of you!

Heather
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Fwd: WINN, early VA file offer
Date: 97-09-06 09:42:51 EDT
From: Bejharts
To: Lanehunts

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: gtrl@esper.com (Tom Land)
Sender: KYROOTS@LSV.UKY.EDU (Kentucky Genealogy & History Discussions)
Reply-to: gtrl@esper.com
To: KYROOTS@LSV.UKY.EDU (Multiple recipients of list KYROOTS)
Date: 97-09-06 09:21:33 EDT

Having seen a few posts regarding the Winn surname lately, I have some
Winn info I could send if you can receive attached files. It is a 61 Kb
text document of primarily VA Winns, info sent me via e-mail from
various researchers of the surname. The name & e-mail of the
researchers is included and I'm sure all would be glad to correspond
with KY kin! I began putting some Winn/Singleton connections together
and wound up with a good deal of Winn info. My DEL key doesn't work!!
so I pass it around to others when I can.

If you would like a copy of the file send me an e-mail with "Winn file
request" in the subject line.

Tom Land gtrl@esper.com

--
When you shake the family tree wondrous stories pour forth!
(Also some fruits & nuts!!) Tom Land gtrl@esper.com
Searching SINGLETON's, LENOIR's, Chism's & VEST's everywhere!
Always pleased with new info, always willing to share.
List Owner of the SINGLETON and VEST research groups.
* To subscribe send an e-mail with the word subscribe in body,
* no subject or signature to the appropriate list address:
SINGLETON-L-request@rootsweb.com OR VEST-L-request@rootsweb.com
Visit:
The RootsWeb homepage at http://www.rootsweb.com/
The Official SINGLETON home page: http://astrodawg.com/gen/singleton/		09/07/1997 12:27:44
Re: Frances Poythress and Rebecca (Cogan?)In a message dated 97-09-06 08:04:05 EDT, you write:

<< are you getting mail 3 days late? >>

Caroline,

No I haven't had that problem. I been getting more mail than I know what to
do with! LOL!

Heather		09/07/1997 12:33:58
Francis Poythress & Bristol CompanyJAMES L. POOLEIn an earlier message today, Al opined:

My "theory" remains that Francis of Virginia was somehow associated
with
the Bristol Company. Just a theory -- no proof, yet. But it was
this
theory that set me to looking in Bristol and Gloucestershire for his
origins. If so, then Francis of Newent elevates another notch or two
as
our most likely candidate. I know all of us want to be especially
cautious
about this all important ancestor.

I, too, share that hunch. The circumstantial evidence is that the
early Poythress family in America had strong merchant connections.
If you study the very early Charles City County court records (by
Beverley Fleet), you can't help but notice that a lot of the people
associated with Merchant's Hope Church on the south side of the James
(and near the present city of Hopewell) had Bristol connections.
Somewhere in Fleet's book, he even offered the same observation.
Francis Poythress definitely belonged to this community, whatever
his origins.

Lou Poole

09/08/1997 5:00:16
Dortchwayne scruggsPoythress List:
Some one wrote last week ,they were trying to find An Elizabeth Bass
married to ? Dortch with a daughter named Elizabeth.
On the 1850 cenus records in Georgia I saw a William R.Dortch age 51
born in Va. Wife Elizabeth age 49 born in Ga. Their children were:
Sarah age 26
Mehala age 22
Lewis age 20
John age 18
James age 15
Neuman R. age 10
I did not see an Elizabeth

Judy 9-8-97 7:30 p.m.		09/08/1997 5:32:04
Poythress connectionHi Al,
Maynard Poythress directed me to this Web site.I am intrested in
joining your discussion list. I have an Elizabeth Poythress who married
John Gilliam. I had her father as Peter, but Maynard has suggested
that it may be Robert b. 1690. I had him listed as her
great-grandfather (according to VA Genealigies). When I checked the
dates, it looks like Maynard was correct. My line goes like this:
John Gilliam/Elizabeth Poythress
William Gilliam/Mary Jarrett
Devereux Gilliam/Edith Ellis
Elizabeth Gilliam/George Roulstone
Rachel Burrell Roulstone/James Beckwith
Harriett Beckwith/George Henry Hill
Anson Beckwith Hill/Florence Sabrina Fisher
John Pate Hill/Willie Elizabeth Jones
Doris Bonnelle Hill/Lamar Olin Weaver
Linda Christine Weaver (me)/ Leslie Terrell Huggins

Lindah3519@aol.com		09/08/1997 7:41:33
Re: HEY JUDY ! ! !HEY CRAIGJudy, after Craig spelled it out for me I think best route would be to
contact John Vogt directly and see if he has a tape in stock and just buy it
from him directly. I'll do so....but you go on to the deal and don't let my
plans sway you one way or the other.

He sounds like my kind of guy as I have undying admiration for anybody that
can handle single malt. My wife Jean and Barb Neal's husband Charles can
knock the stuff back like champs but in my advancing years I can only handle
the wee sissy stuff that they "cut" before they send it down the glen.....I
suppose before long I'll be ordering it with one of those little umbrellas in
it.

Craig...and on that "agonizing", you sit through 35+ years of meetings (even
intelligent ones) making notes and come back and tell me its comfortable ;).

Anyway, Craig, thanks for the full deal....I'll contact John. As much
Poythress stuff as is likely to be hiding in those Teleman Cuyler papers over
at that Hargrett Library of Rare Books and Manuscripts at the University I
need to know the guy anyway.

Thanks again.

Maynard		09/08/1997 9:02:10
Fw: Gilliams,Virginia-TennesseeMarion & Helene PockrusNote the Poythress connection.
Helene

----------
> From: pgreagan@mail.execpc.com
> To: Gillam-L@rootsweb.com
> Cc: pgreagan@execpc.com
> Subject: Gilliams,Virginia-Tennessee
> Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 2:26 PM
>
> I am glad to see a good discussion going on about the Gilliams
> becouse they sure have me going in circles. It seem we all agree that
> William Gilliam married Mary Jarrett.
>
> I am related to Thomas Gilliam who married to Winniford ??There are
> several things I am trying to find out. I would like to know about
> what age Thomas Gilliam would have been?...If anyone has found any
> clues to who Winniford could have been. ..Possible dates of there
> marriage, then maybe I can put ages on the children.
>
> Sarah Gilliam married Frederick Fraker 18 April 1808.Sarah Gilliam
> states in the 1850 Knox County Cencus that she was born in 1790 in
> Virginia. Sarah Gilliam named her second son Spencer. Frederick
> Fraker was one of the buyers at the estate sale of Spencer Gilliam
> yet according to his marriage date was 12 January 1801. He died in
> Knox county about 1810. In his will he list Anne gilliam,
> Winniford,Mary Gilliam, Elizabeth Gilliam. Winniford would later
> marry Michial Fraker a brother of Frederick.
>
> I do not want to rule out the connection to the POYTHRESS family and
> any connection that this family might have. I cannot but become more
> awear of the fact that Thomas son name is Spencer. Spencer is not one
> of the Gilliam family name...there fore could it be a connection with
> His wife., maybe was related in some way to the Spencers.
>
> If someone could stear me in any direction I would be most greatful.
>
> Thank You
>
> Pat Graves Reagan		09/08/1997 10:04:16
Nice ReputationAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following (below signature) is an excerpt from a post to the Gilliam
list. It is nice to see that we are making such a fine impression and
gaining recognition for our spirit of cooperation and commitment to doing
good work. I regret that I've been unable to contribute more of late, but
the list seems to be doing just fine :-).

You may be interested to know that we are nearing 50 subscribers. Our
wonderful group has accelerated the pace and scope of research in ways we
never could have imagined when we started the list. All of you deserve a
big thank you.

Best,

Al Tims

>
>..... I believe the Poythress group is the best that I
> have ever seen brainstorming with different records without getting
> mad at each other. They are out to solve some problems that take a
> great deal of research, so much so that one person cannot possibly
> do it all. Take Sarah , no one has ever heard of her. Unless you are
> a direct descend of Sarah, perhaps you would not need to know her and
> yet she could hold some clues to the Gilliam mess.		09/09/1997 11:57:39
Re: Poythress connectionGreetings, Linda, and welcome to the Poythress List. Having an ancestor
Mary JARRETT with a son DEVEREUX Gilliam, I would guess you are also
related to DEVEREUX JARRETT, the famed Anglican-Methodist preacher.
Please share the connection. As a Southside Virginian, I would be very
interested.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:41:33 -0400 (EDT) LindaH3159@aol.com writes:
>Hi Al,
>Maynard Poythress directed me to this Web site.I am intrested
>in
>joining your discussion list. I have an Elizabeth Poythress who
>married
> John Gilliam. I had her father as Peter, but Maynard has
>suggested
> that it may be Robert b. 1690. I had him listed as her
> great-grandfather (according to VA Genealigies). When I checked
>the
> dates, it looks like Maynard was correct. My line goes like
>this:
>John Gilliam/Elizabeth Poythress
>William Gilliam/Mary Jarrett
>Devereux Gilliam/Edith Ellis
>Elizabeth Gilliam/George Roulstone
>Rachel Burrell Roulstone/James Beckwith
>Harriett Beckwith/George Henry Hill
>Anson Beckwith Hill/Florence Sabrina Fisher
>John Pate Hill/Willie Elizabeth Jones
>Doris Bonnelle Hill/Lamar Olin Weaver
>Linda Christine Weaver (me)/ Leslie Terrell Huggins
>
>Lindah3519@aol.com
>
>		09/10/1997 12:18:02
JSCC1@aol.com: Poythress/DortchThe following is a message from "JSCC1@aol.com" which some of you have
requested that I forward. It regards a Sarah POYTHRESS who has been
discussed recently among us.

Regarding my 9/5 message which summarized information on Sarah POYTHRESS,
please note the following clarification: BPN wrote, "...you [Lyn]
attribute info from him [JSCC1] for the marriage being in Warren rather
than Mecklenburg as mentioned in the one message I saw..." Sorry, BPN, I
did not intend to attribute correct LOCATION to JSCC1, only the marriage
itself. I intended to attribute correct location - Warren, NC - to BPW.
In my message I attribute the marriage information both to JSCC1 and to
BPW without proper clarification.

Regarding the same message, please note a correction, thanks to BPW.
Note (4) should read as follows:

4) David POYTHRESS, candidate son of Lewis POYTHRESS, married first Mary
Speed DORTCH (17 December 1827) then Sally DORTCH (Warren Co., NC, 15
March 1848).

Spouses got reversed in the 9/5 message. BPW, what was that location on
the first marriage?

Maynard, did you by chance catch the name of JSCC1?

Finally, thanks, Lea Dowd, for the introduction to DORTCH researcher Bill
Dortch [MTTS67A@prodigy.com].

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: JSCC1@aol.com
To: llbaird@juno.com, BarbPoythresNeal@compuserve.com,
Beetle72@aol.com,VKRatliff@aol.com
Subject: Poythress/Dortch
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 14:23:13 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970904142307_825345766@emout11.mail.aol.com>

Thanks to all who replied to my request on information on William DORTCH
and
Sarah POYTHRES. What I have was sent to me by another researcher so I
don't
have all the sources.

A 1850 census in Southampton Co., VA shows William A. DORTCH, age 32,
Sally,
age 35, Martha, age 12, Jasper, age 7, Alvin, age 5, Tom,age 3.

A marriage record in (I believe) the IGI lists a William A DORTCH married
to
a Sarah POYTHRES on 31JAN1837. I incorrectly reported this as Meck.,VA.

Williams son Alvin was married on 5APR1866 in Meck.Co., VA to a Tennesse
Jordan GLOVER. Alvin was born in 1844 in VA., and died on 26AUG1915 in
Kankakee, IL. Tennessee was born in 1847 in Ohio, and died 1918. Their
daughter, Mary B DORTCH, born 15JUL1873, in NC, is my GGmother. She
married a
BRYANT which the main name I am researching. I THINK the marriage record
showed William and Sarah and Alvins parents.

I guess at this point I am not sure if the William A DORTCH that was the
father of Alvin, is the same William A DORTCH in the marriage record.
Thanks
again for the replies and if you see anything that fits please let me
know.

PS. If the name BRYANT looks familiar I would be vers interested to
exchange
info.

John P.

--------- End forwarded message ----------		09/11/1997 4:16:57
Going away till 21stCharles Neal9/11/97 8:30 pm
Bud's message last night reminded me that I should let you folks know: I
will be away from my E-mail from now until Sunday 9/21. Charles & I are
going first to our church's annual weekend family camp out in a rural
valley the other side of the mountains, and then on Sunday afternoon we
will move on down to San Diego for a week-long seminar (9 am - 5 pm daily)
on various topics our employer offers to those of us (including me!) who
will be eligible to retire in the upcoming calendar year .

Keep up the good work, and I'll be back with you in 10 days. The computer
& modem are staying home. (PS to Al, please do NOT put me on any other
method of receiving messages; I'll catch up easier this way)
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/11/1997 9:35:53
Powers-HartleyOsmunHello All,

I'm new here, and seeking HELPPP! I have been searching for information
on John Mack Powers born december 1861 said VA/WVA married Mary
Golden(Goldie)Hartley November 1 1885 in Vernon Cty, MO and died August
27 1941 in Rich Hill, Bates Cty, MO. The 1900 Census confirms the dates
that I have and states that John's Parents were born in IN. I am
awaiting a copy of the Marriage Record of John and Mary in hope this
sheds some light on who his parents were. The Migration pattern just
seems so odd to me. So as you can tell I would be very appreciative to
anyone who would share or know of any information that may help. Hope
to hear from you.

Thank you,
Jolene in Michigan		09/11/1997 10:07:46
Fwd: Poythress connection---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Poythress connection
Date: 97-09-12 00:36:37 EDT
From: LindaH3159
To: llbaird@juno.com

Lyn,
Glad to share. This is a brief version of the line. I probally have
more info on other children if anyone needs it.

Robert Jarrett b. London England, d. Jan 1709 New Kent Co., VA
married Mary ____ b. Ireland d. 31 Mar 1707 St. Peters
Parrish.

Robert Jarrett Jr. baptized 16 Aug 1698 St Peter's Parrish, md Sarah
BRADLEY:
Children:
Mary b. 10 Jul 1721 d. 19 Aug 1721
David b. 23 Dec 1723
Robert b. 26 Dec 1724
Joseph
Susannah b. 16 Nov 1726
Devereaux (Rev) b. 6 Jan 1732/33

Devereaux (Rev) b. 6 Jan 1732/33 married Elizabeth ___
Children:
Mary b. 5 May 1724 married William Gilliam
Archolaus b. 5 Jan 1725/26
Anne b. 13 Nov 1727
Fanny b. 15 Jan 1729/30

Mary Jarrett b. 5 May 1724 md William Gilliam
Child:
Devereaux Gilliam

Devereaux Gilliam md Edith Ellis
Child
Elizabeth Gilliam:

Elizabeth Gilliam married George Roulstone b. 8 Oct 1767 Boston, MA. He
owned and operated the first newspaper (The Knoxville Gazette) in
Tennessee.
Their daughter :
Rachel Burrel ROLSTONE b. 15 Oct 1804 Knoxville, TN, d. 16 Nov 1890
Liberty, Dekalb, TN. married Jomes Beckwith b. 9 Nov 1797 Bristol ,
Hartford, CT.,d. 5 Jan 1858. ( i have a dining room table and chairs
that they used in a boarding house that they ran near Knoxville.,
also some original letters written by James and Rachel to their daughter
Harriett Beckwith Hill, my Great- great- grandmother).

I have more on this line if anyone needs it. Also have Ellis, and
Hardings in this line.

Linda		09/11/1997 10:37:49
Mary Speed Dortch & David PoythressLyn,
This record comes from the Marriage Records 1811-1853 of Mecklenburg County,
VA, MB 17 Dec. 1827. Consent: Ann Dortch, mother of Mary Speed Dortch,
Surety: Isaac Taylor.
Barbara (BPW)		09/11/1997 10:52:18
Re: Mary Speed Dortch & David PoythressBPW, thanks for the location of the marriage of David POYTHRESS to Mary
Speed DORTCH. I am again reminded of Isaac TAYLOR - neighbor, surety,
witness. Relation? I wish to do more research on our Taylor connection.
Maybe that connection could enlighten us regarding James or David
POYTHRESS as the Giles connection has enlightened us regarding Edward and
Jack POYTHRESS. Unfortunately, researching Taylor is made difficult by
its pervasiveness. I would not be surprised to find Taylor more common
in nineteenth century southside Virginia than Smith and Jones combined.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Beetle72@aol.com writes:
>Lyn,
>This record comes from the Marriage Records 1811-1853 of Mecklenburg
>County,
>VA, MB 17 Dec. 1827. Consent: Ann Dortch, mother of Mary Speed Dortch,
>Surety: Isaac Taylor.
>Barbara (BPW)
>		09/12/1997 1:19:34
William D. PoythressCraig R. ScottWhile at a reception held at the Dallas Public Library, while I was at the
FGS Conference I of course looked up Poythress in anything that I had not
seen before. Of course the cheesecake and punch continued to beckon so I am
sure that I missed some important work, but that cheesecake was really good.

I came across an entry in Blanford Cemetery which I don't remember seeing
before for a William D. Poythress, b. 11 July 1834, d. 29 January 1919 with
the remark "beloved brother and uncle".

In my personal property tax research for Petersburg and Dinwiddie there is a
William Poythress that is probably this individual.

Does anyone know who this individual is? Who his brother (who must have been
living in 1919) might be? not to mention those that considered him uncle.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		09/12/1997 2:17:56
PORTISLea L. DowdAnother citation

Isle of Wight Co., VA Great Book Vol 2 1715-1726 P. 329 20 Oct 1719
John Brett of NC in Meherrin River to Hugh Bracey, Jr. of Isle of Wight Co.
150 acres (being part of a patent for 900 acres granted to John Portis and
Henry West on 25 Sep 1673) bounded by John Sherrer, William West, John
Britt, Farekill Branch & John Portis, Jr.
Wit: John Williams, John Thomas and William Moore.

Lea		09/12/1997 8:39:17
Poythress Prince George Co., VALea L. DowdMore tid bits.

Lea

Prince George Co., VA Will & Deed Book 1710-1713
P. 70 - 10 Sep 1711 Rec 13 Sep 1711
We, Charles Bartholomew & Rebecca Bartholomew, for love and affection to
our daughter Anne Bartholomew, after our decease, give her 200A on both
sides of Easterly Run in Westover Parish; being rest of 1000A granted to
said Rebecca in her widowhood by escheat patent 29 April 1692; the moiety
whereof is at present belonging to Col. Littlebury Epes, and 300 more
whereof is given by us to Rebecca POYTHRESS, by deed of gift to her this
date. The said 200A is bounded by said Rebecca's 300A.

P. 76 ibid
Charles & Rebecca Bartholomew of Prince George for love & affection to out
daughter Rebecca POYTHRESS of same 300A. Quit rents to be paid by Charles &
Rebecca for 2 years.		09/13/1997 4:19:48
Dissertation on Early Randolph GenerationsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Picked up the following reference from the VA-Roots list.

THE RANDOLPHS OF TURKEY ISLAND: A PROSOPOGRAPHY OF THE FIRST THREE
GENERATIONS, 1650-1806. Author: Gerald Steffens Cowden. A dissertation
presented to the History Dept of the College of William and Mary in
Virginia, 1977.

The paperback I have is in two parts totaling 940 pages. It is not
indexed so it is impossible for me to do the lookups some people have
asked for. I obtained my paperback copy from University Microfilms in
Ann Arbor, Michigan. I got it in 1983 but i assume it is still
available.
-------------------------

Note: Any university library (and large public libraries) should have
Dissertation
Abstracts International in the reference collection. This publication will
have an abstract
of the dissertation and information on ordering a paperback reprint of the
dissertation. I
do not know what information might be contained on the Poythress, but I
would suspect
this document might contain considerable information of interest.

I believe I can access the abstract online and will attempt to do it. If
successful, I'll post
it to the list.

Best,

Al Tims		09/13/1997 5:48:03
Poythress descendents new accomplishmentsP Koscheskito the whole group:
Would like you all to check out the website for Don Grosh Custom
guitars. It is the one where address is the new
picture on the site shows the actual guitar [red one on right]that our
son Kris just completed. It is his personal guitar. He works for Don his
specialty is finishing . For his own training and satisfaction he took
it from the purchase of wood thru every step. the picture does not do it
justice. Top is birdseye maple stained a light clear cadmium red. He
brought it home last week. His comment was, "I know what you women go
thru. This effort took 9 months from start till its first wail". It is a
sweet sound. His boss has invented this mechanism that lets it go from
grunge sound to acoustical open box sound. Really mellow. This is not
just proud parent talking. So far the
He is working on new songs. BTW his other are copyrighted under Kris K
and Kris N Koscheski for any future geneophiles who are searching the
tree via the Library of Congress. Album was called Legend of Sinai.

Ted and Patti Poythress Koscheski

the site is http://www.groshguitars.com/		09/13/1997 7:18:26
William D. Poythress - Blandford CemeteryCarol A. MorrisonCraig posted a message regarding finding a reference to a William D.
Poythree (b. 11 July 1834, d. 29 January 1919) in Blandford Cemetery.

I don't have any record of who his brother, etc. were but have this from
Blandford Records-

Record of Interments, 1905-1924, page 140:
Buried January 31, 1918, Wm. D. Poythress. Eliz Dewal?
(Deval/Devat/Dewat?) (this is under heading of "Parentage" but it might
be the name of his wife instead of name of a parent?). Died January 29,
of Appoplexy, age 83-6-18. Born "City". Int. SE cor Sq #2 wd A OG (The
"A" is written/looks almost like a "6" but since there is no section #
given, in addition to a Sq., this should be Square "A") Old Ground.

Carol

Old Blandford Church and Cemetery URL is
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vacpeter/cemetery/blandfd1.htm		09/13/1997 8:22:23
Re: Poythress Prince George Co., VAHey, Lea, nice post! The 'vine was right when they said you never stop
digging!

Without doing a ton of digging myself, I'm going to speculate that this
Rebecca was nee Rebecca Poythess daughter of Francis(2) and Rebecca Coggin.

My first reservation was that 1711 was a little late in the game for a
grandchild of the original Francis.....but then I notice that by the time of
this document this Rebecca is already widowed which makes the date fairly
plausible.

Second reason to speculate that she is on "the Francis side" of Francis(1)'s
descendents is that the other side (John's) is notably devoid of Rebeccas
while the Francis side has at least two.

Anyway, your post is significant information for the "bank". When its "under
the P's" we catch them pretty good. When its a P. daughter with a married
name they are easy to miss. Thanks. Glad to see a post lately.....I was
beginning to think everybody on the wire was taking September off for
vacation or something. Guess you have been busy stamping out disease in
Muscogee County or somethin' so I'm not taking you specifically to task....;)

Maynard

Subj: Poythress Prince George Co., VA
Date: 97-09-13 18:21:56 EDT
From: lea@gnat.net (Lea L. Dowd)
To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com

More tid bits.

Lea

Prince George Co., VA Will & Deed Book 1710-1713
P. 70 - 10 Sep 1711 Rec 13 Sep 1711
We, Charles Bartholomew & Rebecca Bartholomew, for love and affection to
our daughter Anne Bartholomew, after our decease, give her 200A on both
sides of Easterly Run in Westover Parish; being rest of 1000A granted to
said Rebecca in her widowhood by escheat patent 29 April 1692; the moiety
whereof is at present belonging to Col. Littlebury Epes, and 300 more
whereof is given by us to Rebecca POYTHRESS, by deed of gift to her this
date. The said 200A is bounded by said Rebecca's 300A.

P. 76 ibid
Charles & Rebecca Bartholomew of Prince George for love & affection to out
daughter Rebecca POYTHRESS of same 300A. Quit rents to be paid by Charles &
Rebecca for 2 years.		09/13/1997 8:35:13
Louisa O. PoythressCarol A. MorrisonHere's another one buried in same square as William D. Poythress--

Record of Interments, 1888-1905, page 136:
Buried July 30, 1905, Louisa O. Poythress, white, female. Parentage
[blank]. Died July 29th of Exhaustion from ______, age 69 years. Born
Dinwiddie County, Va. Int. 2nd center E 1/2 Sq 2, W A OG Died at
Williamsburg, Va.

Carol

Old Blandford Church and Cemetery URL is
http://www.rootsweb.com/~vacpeter/cemetery/blandfd1.htm		09/13/1997 9:14:40
Re: Pockrus FarewellMarion & Helene PockrusAl, much to my chagrine I feel I have to unsubscribe from the Poythress
board. I am not adding to anything and I love reading all your thoughtful
presentations. I just feel I have listened long enough to satisfy myself
that I may bump into all of you along the way but am not a POYTHRESS. I
will continue to look for them as I scan indexes as I now do the Bass who
tie into our HOLT line and HANCOCK Lines. I've learned a lot from all of
you. Will miss Maynard and his marvelous sense of humor. He is truly a
southern gentleman! I feel that I know Barb Poythress Neal and I am
practically a cousin to Lyn. Now as you travel through the South, please
remeber to watch for all Poythress
Pockrus/Parcus/Parkhouse/Parkes/Parkess/Parkis/Parkiss/Parkouse/Barkous/Purk
is/Parkins. If you find them you know how to spell it. If you desperately
need a look up at the Family History Library, please let me know. We plan
to spend one day a week there from now on. So many books, so little time.
I have learned so much from all of you. I particularly love Maynard's
Time line. We've worked with it and feel it is a good tool. I hope to get
everything straightened out and want to try to publish next year for our
family, so need to learn all the ends and outs of a Web page so I don't
have to screen so many boards etc. I wish you all well in your endeavors.
Of all the boards I have seen I appreciate your in depth thinking and give
and take. It has been an inspiration to me.
Thank you all.
Helene Pockrus

09/13/1997 11:58:16
Re: Pockrus FarewellMarion & Helene PockrusI'd just have to keep monitoring the board you character.
Helene

----------
> From: VKRatliff@aol.com
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Pockrus Farewell
> Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 1:45 PM
>
> Helene.....suppose we just said "you can't go" ?
>
> Maynard		09/14/1997 1:41:06
Re: Pockrus FarewellHelene.....suppose we just said "you can't go" ?

Maynard

09/14/1997 1:45:40
Re: Pockrus FarewellAlbert R. TimsHelene,

I'd hate to give anyone the impression that freedom of choice isn't a
choice on the Poythress list, but we sure would miss your participation.
How about a change of status to the digest version of the list? As you
know, our list doesn't have the "if it isn't Poythress we don't care"
attitude. We're keenly interested in allied families and the whole range
of social, political, religious, economic and military events that shaped
the lives of the earlier generations. We're also keen on high quality data
sources and setting high standards for the overall quality of our work.
I'm constantly impressed with the quality of the posts and the wonderful
spirit of cooperation and support.

So, please do consider the digest version as a way of managing message
traffic while keeping abreast of new developments. Heck, we might even
pick up another Pockrus or two down the line :-).

If you do decided to leave us, please know that we appreciate your many
contributions, good humor and kindness.

Best,

Al Tims

09/14/1997 4:51:21
Re: Pockrus FarewellHelene,
Thanks for your great contributions to our list!!!!
Sincerely, Barbara (BPW)

09/14/1997 6:05:03
Batte Chart - Section BWilliam A BridgforthHello to list members. Al Tims suggested that I post this to list to
stimulate work on Section B of the Batte Chart that was never started.

I have plagiarized all of this so I have no blood or sweat in this YET!!
Am sure there are many errors - just trying to get things started. Very
anxious to see progress on " *****IA. (Major) Francis Poythress II born
in 1639 in ? London, England married in 1688 Charles City County,
Virginia to: Rebecca Coggin (or Cogan)." I believe this would be
Section B of the Batte Chart.

Al Tims - please keep me posted as I may NOT yet get back on the list.
Thanks to all.
_________________________________________________________
I. Francis Poythress I born 1614 London, England (arrived VA 1633) and
married to: Mary Frances Sloman, born about 1618 of London, England.
Francis I died prior to 1650. (Mary Frances Sloman Poythress married
secondly in 1650 to: Robert Wynne, (1622-1675), Burgess from Charles
City Co., VA, and speaker of the House of Burgesses from 1671-1675.
This WYNNE family came to VA from the vicinity of Canterbury, England.)
All over the net Francis' father is considered to be Joshua b. 1588
London. We think we know Francis sailed from London and there is at
least the implication that he lived there regardless of where he came
from. If he was himself a Welshman in the sense of coming to America
directly "from" Wales it would be more logical to expect him to have
sailed from Gloucester.
Francis Poythress I had at least four children:
*******IA. (Major) Francis Poythress II born in 1639 in ? London,
England married in 1688 Charles City County, Virginia to: Rebecca Coggin
(or Cogan), daughter of John Coggin (or Cogan) and Joyce (surname?).
Rebecca Coggin later married (2) Charles Bartholomew, the widower of her
sister. Francis Poythress II died 1688 Petersburg, Prince George,
Virginia.
Francis Poythress II and Rebecca had five children:
IA1. John Poythress II b. ~1669 Charles City Co VA died
bef May 1724 d. (between 1720-1724) Prince George Co. VA married Mary
Batte, dau. of Henry Batte.
John and Mary had six children:
IA1a. John Poythress III
IA1b. Francis Poythress V
IA1c. William Poythress
IA1d. Ann Poythress
IA1e. Elizabeth Poythress
IA1f. Rebecca Poythress
IA2. Francis Poythress III born in 1671 in Charles City
Co VA and owned land in 1704 married to: Hannah ___(Worsham??)
"He was listed on the 1704 Rent Roll in Prince Geo. As
Francis Poythress, Sen.' with 1283 acres of land. Later record
uncertain, but he appears to have been the ancestor of a long line of
Francis Poythresses."
Francis Poythress III and Hannah ___ had ___
children:
IA2a. Francis Poythress IV married to: ___
IA2b. Elizabeth Poythress born 11 Feb 1720
Prince George
IA3. Rebecca Poythress 1672 Charles City Co VA died in
North Carolina married Richard Pace 1690 at Jamestown, VA. Rebecca died
1738 in Bertie Co., NC. "Circumstantial evidence is strong that she
married Richard Pace, d. 1738, and removed with him to N.C. According to
family tradition, this Richard Pace m. a Rebecca Poythress. In 1715
Francis Poythress, Sen., sold 100 acres to Peter Grammar on Holly Bushes
Branch, on the line of Richard Pace. On 11 Nov 1718, Richard Pace and
Francis Poythress sold 400 acres on Old Town Run, adjoining the lands of
Rosser and Goodrich."
IA4. Anne Poythress born in 1674 in Charles City Co VA
married before 1721 to: Burrell Green d. ~1733
"On 15 November 1721 Burrell Green and his wife Ann of
Surry Co. and Francis Poythress of Prince George sold land to Robert
Hunnicutt, part of a patent to Rebecca Poythress for 1000 acres of land
half of which land is in the possession of Littleberry Eppes, 300 acres
of said land was given Rebecca Poythress, a daughter of said Rebecca and
200 acres to the sd. Anne Green. Burrell Green died intestate in Surry
and his widow Ann was appointed adm. Of his estate 19 Sep 1733. They
appear to have lived in what was later Sussex County."
Anne Poythress and Burrell Green had ___
children:
IA4a. ___ Greene (b. c 1742) married to: Ludson
Worsham (b. c 1740)
___ Greene and Ludson had ___ children:
IA4aI. Ludson Worsham, Jr. born June 1,
1763 in Chesterfield Co, VA d: 1847. and married on Dec. 24, 1788
to: Rebecca Cousins born February 18, 1770 in Dinwiddie Co, VA d:
November 17, 1821 in Henderson, KY.
IA5. Thomas Poythress 1677 Charles City Co VA died ?
married Elizabeth Cocke
"He is mentioned as brother in the will of John Poythress
in 1724. At the time of the 1704 Rent Roll, he owned 616 acres in Prince
George. In 1715 he was granted 180 acres in Surry. There is no furhter
definite record of him and it is not known if he left descendants. He may
be the Thomas Poythress who was named cousin' in 1750, Joshua Poythress
(4), second of the name, was executor of a Thomas Poythress.
IA6. Robert Poythress ???
IB. Thomas Poythress (returned to England in 1659)
IC. John Poythress I (1632-1720) lived in Prince George Co., VA
married Christian Peebles, daughter of David and Elizabeth Peebles.
John Poythress and Christian had twelve children:
IC1. Francis Poythress
IC2. David Poythress
IC3. Josuha Poythress I married ___ Hardyman
Joshua and ___ had seven children:
IC3a. Josuha Poythress II married Mary Short
IC3b. William Poythress
IC3c. Littlebury Poythress
IC3d. dau. ___ Poythress married ___ Harwood
IC3e. Ann Poythress married ? John Wall
IC3f. Elizabeth Poythress married 1)Walter Boyd
2)James Mills
IC3g. Mary Poythress married Peter Epes
IC4. Robert Poythress married Elizabeth ___
IC5. William Poythress married Sarah Eppes
IC6. Peter Poythress married Anne ___
IC7. Elizabeth Poythress married 1)John Fitzgerald
2)Thomas Eppes
IC8. Christian Poythress
IC9. Mary Poythress married ___ Woodlief
IC10. John Poythress
IC11. Eleva Poythress
IC12. Christian Poythress II
ID. Jane Poythress married Thomas Rolfe

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com		09/14/1997 9:19:24
Re: Batte Chart - Section BAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Bill Bridgforth's interest in pulling together the Part B of the Batte
chart may need some explanation for newer subscribers. Maynard Poythress
has information telling him that Mr. Batte's notes have now found a home in
the Library of Virginia Archives. We might hope that among these documents
will be much of what was never formally compiled by Mr. Batte.

Mr. Batte's chart mostly followed the John Poythress (m. Christan Peebles)
line. He drew a line on his chart branching off Francis Poythress (m.
Rebecca Cogan/Coggin) pointing to Section B of his chart. As far as we can
tell, that Section B was never completed. Maynard went to considerable
effort to track it down and, as I recall, was informed by family members
that it wasn't completed at the time of Mr. Batte's passing.

The best summary we have is Lou Poole's information available on the allied
family information page of the Poythress Web Pages. You'll find this under
the Poythress - Wall chapter. An excellent source for anyone wanting a
quick introduction of the Poythress history.

Another excellent source for reference is the outline of Batte's study
found on the Poythress Web "Studies and Charts" page.

I've yet to find a way to reproduce Batte's chart in diagram form so that
it can be easily read on a web page. The original is on a 11 x 14 page and
uses quite small type. I suppose I could scan it as is, if you folks have
an interest in seeing it.

In any event, I hope some of you will join in working this project.

As a reminder, the Poythress web page is at:

http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

Best,

Al Tims		09/14/1997 9:38:34
Dissertation SourceAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Since posting the information on the Randolph dissertation yesterday I've
received several notes/queries about the work. I haven't seen it -- just
spotted the mention on the VA-Roots
list. I did do a search for the abstract and didn't find one available
online. However, I did
track down the mailing address and telephone number for University
Microfilms International. UMI will ship a hard copy of the dissertation
(paperback) for a fairly reasonable fee. For those of you interested in
the Randolph dissertation, I've included the full citation below.

Those of you in VA will find the original in the library at William and
Mary.

All American dissertations are available from:
UMI Dissertation Information Service, University Microfilms
International, 300 N. Zeeb Road, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48106

Tel.: 800-521-0600, or +1 (313) 761-4700

The dissertation title, etc. follow:
TITLE: THE RANDOLPHS OF TURKEY ISLAND: A PROSOPOGRAPHY OF THE
FIRST THREE GENERATIONS, 1650-1806.
AUTHOR: COWDEN, GERALD STEFFENS
DEGREE: PH.D.
YEAR: 1977		09/14/1997 11:26:20
New Poythress ResearcherAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Bruce Porter sent me the following post:
--------------
Al,
I located CLamb5582 when looking for other Poythress on aol --she has sent
me
the attached word file on her family. Looks like it matches better with
most
of the list side than mine so am sending it along for your use. I have
responded to her and asked her to join the list. She seems very interested
in
her family tree.

Later,
Bruce Porter
---------------

I am attaching the text of the word document sent to Bruce below. As you
will see, some of this looks familiar, some we know to be controversial. I
am particularly interested in the early reference to Josuha Poythress of
Middlesex, England. I do hope CLamb5582 joins our group so that we can
learn more about her sources and where she fits into the Poythress family.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
First Generation

1. Joshua POYTHRESS 1588 in London, Middlesex, England (own land in
Hopewell Va.
He married Peachy. Born in 1592 in London , Middlesex, England. They had
the following children:
2 Francis POYTHRESS

Second Generation

2. Francis POYTHRESS. Born 1614 in London Middlesex, England. Died 1661 in
Charles City, Va.
He married Mary. Born about 1624 in London, Middlesex, England. They had
the following children:
3 Jane POYTHRESS
4 John POYTHRESS
5 Francis POYTHRESS
6 Thomas POYTHRESS

Third Generation

3. Jane POYTHRESS. Born about 1630 in Jamestown, James City Va.. Died
January 1680 in Charles City, Va.
She married Thomas Rolfe, son of John Rolfe & Matoka (Pocahontas, Rebecca)
POWHATAN, about 1640 in Va. Born Jan. 30 1614 in "Smith's Plantation", Va.
Died about 1675 in Va. They had the following children:
7. Jane Rolfe

4. John POYTHRESS. Born about 1635 in Jamestown, James City.
He married Christian PEEBLES, December 18, 1688 in Va.

5. Francis POYTHRESS. Born 1639 in Charles City, Va. Died 1688 in
Petersburg, Amelia Va.
He married Rebecca COGAN/WYNNE?, daughter of Mr. COGAN & Joyce, 1688 in
Charles City, Va. Born 1660 in Charles, Va. They had the following
children:
8. John POYTHRESS
9. Rebecca POYTHRESS
10. Francis POYTHRESS
11. Anne POYTHRESS
12. Thomas POYTHRESS

6. Thomas POYTHRESS. Born about 1640 in Charles City, Va.

FOURTH GENERATION

7. Jane Rolfe. Born Oct. 10, 1650 in Henrico, Va. Died about 1676 in
Kippax, Charles City, Va.

She married Robert BOLLING Colonel, about 1675 in Henrico, Va. Born Dec.
26, 1646 in All Hollows, Barking Par., London, England. Died Jul 7, 1709 in
Kippax, Charles City, Va. They had the following children:
13. John BOLLING (Colonel)

8. John POYTHRESS. Born 1669 in Charles City, Va. Died 1724 in Prince
George, Va.
He married Mary BATTE, 1723 in Prince George, Va. They had the following
children:
14. Rebecca POYTHRESS
15. Thomas POYTHRESS
16. Francis POYTHRESS

9. Rebecca POYTHRESS. Born 1672 in Charles City, Va. Died in probaly
Bertie Co., NC
She married Richard PACE III, son of Richard PACE II & Mary KNOWLES		09/14/1997 11:34:17
Re: New Poythress ResearcherKen PooleThanks for the information. I am trying to find the earliest written
sources for this as part of my effort. For example Jane Rolfe died aged 25
and Robert was 29, the poor boy from England, without a pot or a
window...??? Said to have married, shortly before she died.

Sounds like a fairy tale from old Judge John Robertson. So far, about every
thing I have found can be traced to him. He's the one who wrote that God
ordered him to write the Pocahontas genealogy, in a clear voice, and old
time speach. (see the Tiernan Family genealogy).

Can someone tell me where Ft Smith is in present day location, and where
can I get maps of the early VA areas? Thanks, Ken Poole

At 12:34 PM 9/14/97 -0500, Albert R. Tims wrote:
>Poythress List,
>
>Bruce Porter sent me the following post:
>--------------
>Al,
>I located CLamb5582 when looking for other Poythress on aol --she has sent
>me
>the attached word file on her family. Looks like it matches better with
>most
>of the list side than mine so am sending it along for your use. I have
>responded to her and asked her to join the list. She seems very interested
>in
>her family tree.
>
>Later,
>Bruce Porter
>---------------
>
>I am attaching the text of the word document sent to Bruce below. As you
>will see, some of this looks familiar, some we know to be controversial. I
>am particularly interested in the early reference to Josuha Poythress of
>Middlesex, England. I do hope CLamb5582 joins our group so that we can
>learn more about her sources and where she fits into the Poythress family.
>
>Best,
>
>Al Tims
>
>----------
>First Generation
>
>1. Joshua POYTHRESS 1588 in London, Middlesex, England (own land in
>Hopewell Va.
>He married Peachy. Born in 1592 in London , Middlesex, England. They had
>the following children:
> 2 Francis POYTHRESS
>
>Second Generation
>
>2. Francis POYTHRESS. Born 1614 in London Middlesex, England. Died 1661 in
>Charles City, Va.
>He married Mary. Born about 1624 in London, Middlesex, England. They had
>the following children:
> 3 Jane POYTHRESS
> 4 John POYTHRESS
> 5 Francis POYTHRESS
> 6 Thomas POYTHRESS
>
>Third Generation
>
>3. Jane POYTHRESS. Born about 1630 in Jamestown, James City Va.. Died
>January 1680 in Charles City, Va.
>She married Thomas Rolfe, son of John Rolfe & Matoka (Pocahontas, Rebecca)
>POWHATAN, about 1640 in Va. Born Jan. 30 1614 in "Smith's Plantation", Va.
>Died about 1675 in Va. They had the following children:
> 7. Jane Rolfe
>
>4. John POYTHRESS. Born about 1635 in Jamestown, James City.
>He married Christian PEEBLES, December 18, 1688 in Va.
>
>5. Francis POYTHRESS. Born 1639 in Charles City, Va. Died 1688 in
>Petersburg, Amelia Va.
>He married Rebecca COGAN/WYNNE?, daughter of Mr. COGAN & Joyce, 1688 in
>Charles City, Va. Born 1660 in Charles, Va. They had the following
>children:
> 8. John POYTHRESS
> 9. Rebecca POYTHRESS
> 10. Francis POYTHRESS
> 11. Anne POYTHRESS
> 12. Thomas POYTHRESS
>
>6. Thomas POYTHRESS. Born about 1640 in Charles City, Va.
>
>FOURTH GENERATION
>
>7. Jane Rolfe. Born Oct. 10, 1650 in Henrico, Va. Died about 1676 in
>Kippax, Charles City, Va.
>
>She married Robert BOLLING Colonel, about 1675 in Henrico, Va. Born Dec.
>26, 1646 in All Hollows, Barking Par., London, England. Died Jul 7, 1709 in
>Kippax, Charles City, Va. They had the following children:
> 13. John BOLLING (Colonel)
>
>8. John POYTHRESS. Born 1669 in Charles City, Va. Died 1724 in Prince
>George, Va.
>He married Mary BATTE, 1723 in Prince George, Va. They had the following
>children:
> 14. Rebecca POYTHRESS
> 15. Thomas POYTHRESS
> 16. Francis POYTHRESS
>
>9. Rebecca POYTHRESS. Born 1672 in Charles City, Va. Died in probaly
>Bertie Co., NC
>She married Richard PACE III, son of Richard PACE II & Mary KNOWLES
>
>
>
>
>
>		09/15/1997 1:04:58
Re: Batte Chart - Section BBill....that framework for part B is...well, I guess fairly close to one of
Hercules' labors. Absolutely extraordinary.

And to all, may I once again invite each of you who doesn't have a copy of
"the other part"...the Part A "chart" to send me your snail mail address and
I'll mail you one. I slipped out to my former office and ran off another 25
or so copies just this week for rebuilding my inventory.

The chart is 17" x 11". That is the reason for Al's difficulty in posting it
(or that's my guess). To be sure, the TEXT for Part A is posted on the page
but don't fool yourself; if you intend to work with the text you almost have
to have the schematic drawing....or make one yourself using the text....or be
a rocket scientist.

I will be pleased to mail you a copy at no charge. Suggest you send name and
snail mail adds. straight to me (vkratliff@aol.com) to keep from having a
bunch of these crowding the discussion group. And besides, any of you
lurking who want to remain behind the bushes I promise I won't blow your
cover.

Best,

Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)		09/15/1997 9:17:17
PoitrasMarion & Helene PockrusPOITRAS, Polly Stevens Miss; 97; Ottawa ON; Ottawa Citizen; 1997-9-10;
gmillar

Listed in the Obituary Times today.

Helene		09/16/1997 8:45:00
FRANCIS d. before Jan 1688/9Lea L. DowdCould someone please tell me how Rebecca could do this?
Thanks,
Lea

Charles City Co. Ct. Rec. 1687-1695 P. 188 8 Jan 1688
Adm with will annexed granted Rebecca, widow of Fra. Poythress, dec'd. She
does quit claim to what goods are now in Capt. Emberly's ship, belonging to
Tho. and Joshua Wynn. Signed Pr. Perry.		09/16/1997 11:47:10
Still reading in CCC, VALea L. DowdCharles City Co., VA, Ct Rec 1688-1695 P. 193 4 Feb 1688/89
Suit of John Poythress as marrying Xtian, daughter of Eliza. Peebles vs
Tho. Busby, referred to next court.

Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 209. 3 Apr 1689
Judgmt granted Elizabeth Edmunds, daughter of Sarah, the now wife of John
Lanier, for certain items as gifts of sd Sarah in her widowhood.

Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 250 3 Oct 1689
Report of Maj. Jno Stith and Capt. Dan. Lewellin auditors of a difference
between Xpher Batty and the widow Frost:
First: that Xpher Batty was to have his diet at his daughter Eliz. Frost's
house from the 7th day of this month, Sept. until middle of April next, in
same quantity as condition between Batty and Jno. Frost, dec'd specifies;
and his daughter was to keep and maintain a stock of cattle which the sd
Frost had from the sd Batty, until mid April next, and then deliver to sd
Batty....
long case and Eliz: doesn't want to agree to terms, but finally does.

Lea		09/17/1997 2:00:19
Reunion for WindowsAnyone have any words of technical wisdom on below? And if Reunion can't
accomodate the need, are any of you working with a program that will?
Many thanks,

Maynard

Subj: Reunion Research Notes
Date: 09/17/97
To: info@LeisterPro.com

Research in my family involves a burned counties in both Virginia and
Georgia. I am also in early 1600's to present. Due to the scarcity of
information and thus the enhanced importance of "linking" information, I
would like to post what information that I do have in extensive form....for
example, an individual's "event line" with full text of some deeds, land
grants, newspaper citations, etc.

I have already created many documents in MS Word. When I paste these to
Reunion research notes they parse funky (no particular surprise, thats kind
of SOP, isn't it?). When I try to work inside the Reunion word processing
program the capacity of 32M characters per person is adequate but I find the
"built in" word processing program lacks both the flexibility and the appeal
of blank 8 1/2" x 11'' pages on which to work and save with a variety of
symbols, fonts, type sizes, etc.

My question is can I build (or will the new Reunion version have) an OLE to
get to one's own word processing program? If not, is there a way I can
format Reunion to default me to my own word processing program file instead
of Reunion "notes"? And if I can't do either of the above is there a key
stroke sequence that will link me from my "person" to my own word processing
program with reasonable efficiency?

Thanks for your help.

Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)		09/17/1997 2:26:43
More CCC, VALea L. DowdCharles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 500 4 June 1694
Attorney General exhibits information against Charles Bartholomew for
making an unlawful marriage. Attachment awarded agst body of sd Charles,
returnable to next court. Sheriff is to summon Rebecca, relict of Francis
Poythress to appear adn answer information of an unlawful marriage to
Charles Bartholomew.

Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 505 3 Aug 1694
Case of Attorny General vs Charles Bartholomew for unlawful marriage to
Rebecca Poythress. Bartholomew now appears and quotes 2 statutes re
marriage and says his marriage is cognizable only by ecclesiastical
jurisdiction. Court overules this plea. Bartholomew says that he has not
violated the law.
P. 506 Deposition of John Jane that he knew Frances, late wife of Charles
Bartholomew and knows Rebecca, relict of Francis Poythress, and says the
two were sisters, being daughters of the same mother. John Bishop swears
the same. Joshua Wynn says he knew both women from childhood and they were
always taken as sisters by one mother. Because of the absence of Mr. George
Robinson, Clerk, who joined them in marriage, case is referred to next
court.

Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 509-510 3 Aug 1694
William Randolph, Esq., Att. Gen brings case against Charles Bartholomew
referred from last court. Repeats that Charles Bartholomew and Rebecca wife
of late Maj. Francis Poythress were married in Westover Parish 2 Feb 1693
by Mr. George Robinson, Bristol Parish, Henrico Co., Clerk and live
together. Bartholomew pleads not guilty to unlawful marriage. Wm Epes said
he saw same. John Jane says Rebecca and Frances are daughters of one
mother, but different fathers. Thomas Blighton says he frequented the
house of John Coggan in his lifetime and often heard Coggans wife call said
Rebecca and Frances daughters and the sd daughters own themselves sisters.
Jury brings in verdict of not guilty. Attorny General appeals. Bartholomew
to give surities to live apart from Rebecca until suit settled.

Now this is interesting.....So far nothing more is heard on this case -
then

Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 543 3 Dec 1694
Charles Bartholomew appoints William Randolph of Henrico his attorney for
any suit in Charles City Co. court.

Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 549 4 Dec 1694
Henry Reed exhibits his bill in chancery against Charles Bartholomew and
Rebecca his wife, Extrx of Major Francis Poythress shows that one Ann Young
sister of the orator died intestate in this county. Maj. Francis Poythress
had inventoried this estate and was thereof possessed. Adm. was granted to
Maj. Francis Poythress and Peter Reed orator;s father. It discusses
property in the estate and states that shortly afterward Poythress went to
England and died, in the nonage of the orator. Discusses other property
belonging to John, orphan of Ann Young.

Lea		09/17/1997 4:34:26
Atty Genl vs Chas BartholomewLea.....teriffic job picking this one up. I had read sketchy accounts of the
affair and had a general notion as to what it was about but had never seen it
spelled out chapter and verse.

In short, this is the way I understand it: Bartholomew, widower of Frances
(presumably nee Coggan) marries Rebecca Poythress (nee Coggan), the widow of
Maj. Francis Poythress (i. e. Francis2).

The two issues for the court got scrambled but a) were the two really sisters
and, if so, b) it was apparently against civil statute to marry the sister of
one's deceased wife but NOT against ecclesiastical law.

Bartholomew played both cards but apparently won on the latter as the
testimony is
fairly conclusive that the two women were sisters. He also apparently won on
appeal (if indeed it ever went to appeal) as the December 1694 document shows
them as man and wife, whether happily or not we'll never know but lets hope
so after 6 months of all that legal grief.

Maynard		09/17/1997 5:57:12
Re: FRANCIS d. before Jan 1688/9Craig R. ScottIt looks like Rebecca was the administrator of the estate of her husband.
Not seeing the will, I believe that you will find that Francis appointed an
executor, but for some reason that executor was unable to serve, so the
court appointed Rebecca. Francis probably had an investment in the goods on
Captain Emberly's ship, but might have been in debt to Tho. and Joshua Wynn,
and by filing a quit claim against the goods that debt could be absolved. Or
Thomas and Joshua Wynn were heirs of Francis in the absence of Rebecca and
Rebecca is stepping aside for them. All a quit claim does is state that the
person filing the claim has no further claim against the property.

Craig

At 01:47 AM 9/17/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Could someone please tell me how Rebecca could do this?
>Thanks,
>Lea
>
>Charles City Co. Ct. Rec. 1687-1695 P. 188 8 Jan 1688
>Adm with will annexed granted Rebecca, widow of Fra. Poythress, dec'd. She
>does quit claim to what goods are now in Capt. Emberly's ship, belonging to
>Tho. and Joshua Wynn. Signed Pr. Perry.
>
>

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		09/17/1997 7:26:03
Re: Poythress/DortchMaynard,
I have been in correspondence with Jim and he has sent me priceless
information about the Twisdale connection to Charles David Poythress
(1849-1892). Charles David married Indiana Peru Twisdale in 1870 and they
lived in Warren and Vance Counties, NC.
Two sisters of Charles David married two brothers of Indiana Twisdale and
through one of these sisters, Jim connects to David Poythress (circa
1800-1876), who is their father.
Jim seeks proof of the relationship of David to Lewis of Mecklenburg.
I have sent him what documents I have linking David and Lewis which lead me
to conclude that it is a strong possibility that they are father and son.
Barbara (BPW)		09/17/1997 9:33:51
Poythress/DortchAnyone want to take a whack at this guy?

Subj: Poythress
Date: 97-09-17 02:28:20 EDT
From: PMCO@prodigy.net (Jim Richardson)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com

John, I am searching for information on a David Poythress from
Mecklengurg Co., VA.

David married Sally Dortch 15 Mar 1848 in Warren Co., NC		09/17/1997 11:46:43
Poythress/DortchI copied this one to the board a few minutes ago and I thought the guy
sounded a bit abrupt. Now I see that he just cut himself off in the middle
of the message and here is the whole thing:

Subj: Poythress
Date: 97-09-17 08:48:07 EDT
From: PMCO@prodigy.net (Jim Richardson)
To: VKRatliff@aol.com

John, I am searching for information on David Poythress from Mecklenburg
Co., VA.

David was born about 1795/1800. He is shown in the 1850 VA Census as D.
Poythress, 53 white male born in Mecklenburg Co., VA.

Any help will be greatlly appreciated.

Jim Richardson		09/17/1997 12:15:28
Latest from Helene Pockrus on the PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Helene Pockrus sent me the following information based on her most recent
visit to Salt Lake. She asks who is our first known Poythress in this
post. The answer is Francis Poythress (circa 1632). This is well
documented. We still don't know when he actually arrived, since the
records "suggest" he was already established in Virginia in 1632. See the
Poythress web page -- 17th Century records -- for an overview of the early
documentation.

Helen's new information is very helpful. Thanks!

Best,
Al Tims

William Poythress, Militia; Georgia, entry rank; Corporal, exit rank;
Corporal
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Land Records, Al,AR,FL,La,MI,MN,OH,WI #255
Pre-1790 Colonial Records, #136

Robert Porteous Bearfort Distr, SC 1778
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2 patents for Peter Poythress in AR, one in the name of his widow Lilly,
dated Nov 27, 1820 (War of 1812 warrants)

2 patents for James A. Poythress in Natchitoches dated 1860.
2 patenbts for Peter Poythress in Arkansas, one in the name of his widow
Lilly, dated November 27, 1820(War of 1812 warrants)

Have more on the James A. Poythress in LA
James A. Poythres was in the 1860 Caddo Parish LA census.page 59 enumerated
July 27, 1860
408/413 he is 38 a farmer has $1000 pp/$1000 Real Estate He was born in
Georgia
He has a wife Martha A. age 30 born Virginia
daughter Emma J. age 8, born LA
daughter Mary 6, bornLA
William H. 4, born LA
and a John W. Poythress age 26 who is a carpenter who was born in
Florida(extra little quirk)_
They were married (film had a blemish but I think it was 1837)
Next door were living Hubbard Ford from Virginia, Bennett from NC John M.
Carn of SC

Hope some of this clarifies someone's work. By the way, I would like to
know who your earliest Poythress is that is documented in the USA.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Additionally, I found a great book-rather Marion did-called the
Alphabetical List of Private Claims which have been presented to the House
of Representatives from the First to the Thirty First Congress, exhibiting
tThe Action of Congress on each Claim with refereces to the Journals,
Reports, Bills & etc., Elucidating its Porgress. Compiled by order of the
House of Representatives. Published by Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc in
1970
Vol 111 from P to Z inclusive:
William PoythressHeirs-wanted commutation pay for Revolutionary Services
during the 23rd Congress, 1st Sessionl brought before the House as a
petition in Journal page 127 was referred to the Committee of the House on
Revolutionary Claims.
William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 23rd Congress in the 2nd
Session on Page 48 of the Journal again sent to the Committe of the House
on Revolutionary Claims.
William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 24th Congress in the 1st
Session as documented on the 942nd page of the Journal and again was again
referred to the Revolutionary Claims Committee.
____________________________________________________________________________

____________________

An interesting book called "A Century of Population Growth from the First
Census of the United States to the Twelfth Census 1790-1900" Published by
Genealogical Publishing Co., 1970 did not list any Poythress surnames on
Table 111 which was dealing with names represented by at least 100 white
persons by States and Territories at the First Census 1790. However, this
Census listed a lot of Parkhurst, Parckhurst, Parkhast, Parkherst and
Parkhurt. Also lots of Parkes, Parkess, Parkis and Pearks - gotta get my
dig in as it looks like I am going to have to shift my focus of research.
Hence the question above.

Helene		09/18/1997 4:39:48
Re: Atty Genl vs Chas BartholomewLea L. DowdMaynard,

I went back and found what the probably cause of "unlawful marriage" was
attributed to....

There was another case against John Moore. It seems that the 12th Act of
Assembly says that "none may be married but by minister, nor by them but by
license and publishing banns. Laws of England say that none shall marry
within a certain degrees of consanguinity, especially none shall marry his
wife's sister."

It seems that John Moore had married Elizabeth, daughter of Seth Perkins
joined in matrimony by Mr. Charles Anderson of Westover Parish.

Hope that this helps.

Lea		09/18/1997 12:35:45
Re: PORTISLea, thank you so much for this citation. I am interested to explore
whether this mentioned John PORTIS, Jr. is the same person as John
POYTHRES "of Prince George", who in 1723 was granted 200 acres in Isle of
Wight (PB11, p258-9), and the same person as John POYTHRESS, Gentleman,
who in 1735/6 was granted 325 acres in Brunswick (PB17, p293-4). (These
two tracts are both south of Meherrin River in what was Brunswick County
and is Greenville County today, and were discovered by Carol Morrison to
have been subsequently owned by Thomas Poythress of Brunswick County.)

In pursuit of this, I am interested in further understanding the location
of this 150 acres transferred from Brett to Bracey. What is meant by "in
Meherrin River"? Also, does the context indicate that "Farekill Branch"
is a body of water? Or a person with surname BRANCH?

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:39:17 -0400 "Lea L. Dowd" writes:
>Another citation
>
>Isle of Wight Co., VA Great Book Vol 2 1715-1726 P. 329 20 Oct 1719
>John Brett of NC in Meherrin River to Hugh Bracey, Jr. of Isle of
>Wight Co.
>150 acres (being part of a patent for 900 acres granted to John Portis
>and
>Henry West on 25 Sep 1673) bounded by John Sherrer, William West, John
>Britt, Farekill Branch & John Portis, Jr.
>Wit: John Williams, John Thomas and William Moore.
>
>
>Lea
>
>		09/19/1997 9:23:05
Re: Swem IndexCraig R. ScottKnown as Swem's Index by most the exact title is _Virginia Historical
Index_. I have seen it as two volumes and as four. The copy I use here at
home is four volumes. Originally done in 1934, it was reprinted in 1965. It
covers the following publications:

1. The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, volumes 1 - 38, 1893-1930.

2. The William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, First Series,
volumes 1 - 27, 1892-1919.

3. The William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, Second
Series, volumes 1 - 10, 1921 - 1930

4. Tyler's Quarterly Historical and Genealogical Magazine, volumes 1 - 10,
1919 - 1929.

5. Virginia Historical and Literary Advertiser, volumes 1 - 6, 1848-1853;

6. The Lower Norfolk County Virginia Antiquary, volumes 1 - 5, 1895-1906
(which Willow Bend is trying to get permission to reprint)

7. Hening's Statutes at Large, 1619-1792 (also on my shelf)

8. Calendar of Virginia State Papers and other manuscripts preserved in
Richmond, 1652-1869, volumes 1 - 11.

Actually it appears that at least three others were indexers: Miss Margaret
Lee Goodwin, Mrs. E. G. Swem and Miss Leah James.

The books cost about $150 on the used market.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		09/21/1997 4:17:13
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCraig R. Scott.I'm going to go to
>the Genealogy meeting at the LOV of Virginia that's scheduled for
>October 17 & 18 and I have a friend flying in from Wisconsin to attend
>on the 16th - so if not sooner, I should be able to actually check out
>some more on the 16th of October.

Anyone else coming to the VGS Conference in Richmond, please be sure to drop
by the Willow Bend Books booth and say hello. It is always nice to be able
to put a name with an face.

Craig

And, Carol, thank you for being the person that was able to identify who
Susan M. Poythress, wife of Benajamin Poythress, belongs to and where. My
enternal gratitude. I have looked a Petersburg City Deaths on microfilm and
somehow missed it.

>

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		09/21/1997 4:17:14
RE: PocahontasHello all,
This information is after the fact, but I will pass on anyway. Found out late
yesterday that Henricus Park in Chester(my home town)was doing a fun day at
the park with a reinactment of Pocahontas and John Rolfe wedding. The groom
was played by Richard Cheatham, the pamphlet says he is a direct decendant of
Pocahontas. I wish I had known sooner so some of you living close by could
have attended. It was fun for the kids mostly. They had historical games,
Indian dances, reinactment of Sir Thomas Dale defending Henricus. They also
had a boat ride(not much to see on the James). Chesterfield County was
selling their new "Chesterfield County Afghan" $42.00. All in all, a fun
Sunday with my 3 year old who preferred the big yellow school bus which
transported us from the parking lot to the park. She promptly fell asleep as
soon as we were back in the car.

Bruce Porter (Poythress)		09/21/1997 4:50:56
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCharles NealThank you so much, Carol, for the info about the records existing at
Blandford, and for checking thru what you had of them. I gather that the
Index has not been microfilmed or printed for publication?

Thank you also so much for the info you were able to add. Look forward to
learning more from your upcoming visit to the area for the VGS Conference
Oct. 17-18. Wish that I could attend that one too, but it looks highly
unlikely. If my plans should change, I'd like to meet you and any other
List-subscribers who'll be there.

Barbara (BPN)		09/21/1997 8:33:51
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCarol A. MorrisonBarbara Neal wrote:
>
> Craig Scott inquired about Wm D. Poythress buried at Blandford, whose
> marker is engraved "In loving remembrance of our beloved brother and uncle"
> asking who his brother was. (Note, Craig, it could have been his SISTER
> who said he was a beloved brother. From the below info, perhaps his sister
> married a Taylor??)
>
> Carol, you then gave us info from some record of Blandford Interments which
> I have not yet seen & which I am curious about. Can you please give me
> more details on what volume/other source you got this info from, in which
> you cite page numbers?
>
> Back in Oct of 1992, when visiting Blandford, I visited the Sexton's
> office, and made photocopies of what the VERY young man who was there that
> day THOUGHT was the only records they had. Yet whatever you have
> consulted gives more info, since your source is referring to some cause of
> death and to the date of burial and to the complete age &/or birthdate for
> Wm D & Louisa. None of that info was available in the little typed slips
> that were in a huge notebook in the office when I visited. Those slips
> were in alphabetical order by the name of the deceased.

Barbara,

Blandford Cemetery indeed has more records than just the books with the
typed written layered slips of paper of names in alphabetical order. In
addition to those books they have a set of books entitled "Record of
Interments" that start in the year 1843 and goes to/through 1943. I
think
that there are 6 books of the "Records of Interments."

I know that the 1st book is "Records of Interments 1843-1871"
I think the 2nd is "Records of Interments 1872-1877"
I think the 3rd is "Records of Interments 1878-1887"
The next one (4th?) is "Records of Interments 1888-1905"
The one after that (5th?) is "Records of Interments 1905-1924"
and the last one (6th?) is "Records of Interments 1924-1943"

I have two rolls of microfilms in my collection that are of the 1st,
4th,
5th and 6th books. It doesn't appear that books 2 and 3 were ever
microfilmed
and I do not know why they were not included. I know I've seen the 3rd
book
at the cemetery office but I can't guarantee that I've seen all 6 books
(although
I do think I have).

Also, there is an index for the books but the Index (last time I
checked) was
at the Courthouse in Petersburg instead of at the cemetery office.

All of these books (the Record of Interments and the slips book) are
kept
in the back walk-in closet behind the office desk that's immediately to
your right
when you enter the office.

BTW, I'm also showing a Henry W. Potter (son of Henry H. Potter and
Isabella G.) and his
mother, Isabella G. Potter buried in Square 2.

More to follow-----------

Carol

I'll check my 'films' for		09/21/1997 8:39:16
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCarol A. MorrisonBarbara wrote:
>
> Thank you so much, Carol, for the info about the records existing at
> Blandford, and for checking thru what you had of them. I gather that the
> Index has not been microfilmed or printed for publication?
>
> Thank you also so much for the info you were able to add. Look forward to
> learning more from your upcoming visit to the area for the VGS Conference
> Oct. 17-18. Wish that I could attend that one too, but it looks highly
> unlikely. If my plans should change, I'd like to meet you and any other
> List-subscribers who'll be there.
>
> Barbara (BPN)

Barbara,

I'm maintaining a Blandford Cemetery Web site and eventually the Indexes
will be online, plus the Record of Interments Books, and other "stuff"
concerning folks buried at Blandford. The indexes for all but one book
are microfilmed and are on the two rolls that I have.

Carol		09/21/1997 9:22:31
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCharles NealCarol, what is the address for the Blandford Cemetery website, please?
Thanks,
Barbara (BPN)

09/21/1997 10:15:18
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCarol A. MorrisonCharles Neal wrote:
>
> Carol, what is the address for the Blandford Cemetery website, please?
> Thanks,
> Barbara (BPN)

Barbara,

Presently its at--

http://www.rootsweb.com/~vacpeter/cemetery/blandfd1.htm

(and please forgive any typos you find in the "Record of Interments"
that are presently on line, they'll be corrected eventually - on another
thought, the way these (Interment pages) web pages are layed out is
almost identical to the actual books so you'll be able to see what
they're like)

Carol		09/21/1997 11:00:50
Swem IndexI realize the matter of "the Swem Index" is old hat to most of you but we
have a lot of new members that may not have heard of Mr. Swem and thereby may
be overlooking a valuable Virginia resource.

I used the term "Swem index" in an e-mail exchange with a lady the other day
and she had not heard of it......prompting me to write up a description of
the thing. Craig, set me straight if I have erred in any of this.

On the off chance that we may have some folks not familiar with the index and
since I have it already written it up, I'll post the description below for
those people. (For others who have already used the Swem index, you can zap
this message now, there is nothing below that you don't already know).

Best,

Maynard

I am embarrassed to say I can't remember the exact title of this one but
virtually any library or librarian that has a modicum of colonial material
has one. It is referred to simply as "the Swem index". And if you are going
to research anything in Virginia its hard to get out of the gate without
using it. And if you have never heard of it, don't feel dumb. I hadn't
either until Mr. Swem's grandson, in my "Sons" chapter, told me about this
nifty book his grandfather did while teaching at Wm. & Mary.

Mr. Swem (a sainted soul) wrote a coffee-table sized book about 1 1/2" thick
called something like "The Virginia Index".

He took eight monster Virginia genealogical publications (for example, all
issues of the William & Mary Quarterly which started publishing about
1880-something is only one) and built an index....for our purposes perhaps
better called a "finding guide".

Each of the eight publications he indexed has a code letter(s) assigned to
it; again, using the W&M Qrtly as an example, is "W(1)" for series 1 and
"W(2)" for series 2. Virginia historical register is simply "R", Calendar of
Virginia State Papers is coded "C", etc. etc. The code is printed in the
front of the book and wise ones xerox that page too because you'll sooner or
later need it.

Then Mr. Swem sat down and read every word of all of them and made an index
of names as they are individually referred to. This is not the sort of book
you would want to "buy".....you just find "your" page or the pages with names
of interest to you and xerox those pages out of the library copy as the
finding guide and then go look them up in the publications cited.

Poythress, for example has a column and a half with perhaps a 3 or 4 hundred
entries. To illustrate, the P page looks like this:

Poythress (Poythers, Poythres)
Jane, 7V190, 439; 26V386
John, 4R66, 74; 2V11; 7V71; etc.

Interpreted.....Jane is mentioned in volume 7 of Virginia Mag. of Biog. and
History
("V") on pages 190 and 439....and she is mentioned again in volume 26 of the
same publication on page 386.

John is in vol 4, pages 66 & 74 of "R" (Virginia Historical Register) and in
vol 2 pg 11 of Virginian Mag of Hist & Biog, vol 7 pag 71 of ditto, etc. etc.

The Louisville library had all eight of the publications which at first I
thought was quite remarkable since one or two of these are more than a
hundred volumes. Then I realized that Ky. was once part of Virginia so
virtually everybody in Ky working the genealogy hobby has to start in
Virginia.

I then decided it wasn't that big a deal but a library in, say, Tuscon,
wouln't have prayer of having all of them. A second thought on that subject
was that, shoot, not too many people sailed from England or Scotland directly
to Tuscon....so any library with halfway decent genealogical section would
have at least the Swem index itself and maybe 3 or 4 of the sets indexed. I
expect thats what you'll find but maybe you'll get lucky.

Another thing I learned the hard way but fortunately learned early was not to
follow
a single individual through all 8 publications.....but to get each of the
publications and tick off the names until I had finished the job for THAT
publication before going to the next one. Realizing it was such a godzilla
job, I didn't attempt to do any transcribing, I just xeroxed as fast as I
could go and the three ring bindered the works. At a dime a pop to xerox at
Lou. Library I came home with about 300 pages of direct and specific
references for 30 bucks.....better than I ever did with a "bought" book even
if it did take me 20+ hours to find all the references and xerox them.

So thats what Swem is all about.....and I think it will be a great resource
for you.		09/21/1997 11:46:36
Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCharles NealCraig Scott inquired about Wm D. Poythress buried at Blandford, whose
marker is engraved "In loving remembrance of our beloved brother and uncle"
asking who his brother was. (Note, Craig, it could have been his SISTER
who said he was a beloved brother. From the below info, perhaps his sister
married a Taylor??)

Carol, you then gave us info from some record of Blandford Interments which
I have not yet seen & which I am curious about. Can you please give me
more details on what volume/other source you got this info from, in which
you cite page numbers?

Back in Oct of 1992, when visiting Blandford, I visited the Sexton's
office, and made photocopies of what the VERY young man who was there that
day THOUGHT was the only records they had. Yet whatever you have
consulted gives more info, since your source is referring to some cause of
death and to the date of burial and to the complete age &/or birthdate for
Wm D & Louisa. None of that info was available in the little typed slips
that were in a huge notebook in the office when I visited. Those slips
were in alphabetical order by the name of the deceased. After we copied
the Poythress slips, and then went to find gravesites in the cemetery, it
was unfortunately too late to find anyone at the office again, to get info
about the below people whose last names were other than Poythress. The
record I saw (& photocopied) clearly shows Wm. D. Poythress was the owner
of the square in which Wm D & Louisa & Mollie were buried, with the info
about them. It also shows that the square was indeed Square 2 of Ward A,
as you (Carol) suspected.

In Square 2 of Ward A, there were 6 gravemarkers, and only the #2, #3, and
#4, (going left to right in the Square) were Poythress surnamed. WITHOUT
THE RECORDS, WE CANNOT TELL IF Wm. D. POYTHRESS OWNED ALL 6 GRAVES.

Following info is from our observation of the 6 graves with stones in that
Square, from left to right as one is standing there reading the stones.
IN SQUARE BRACKETS ARE ITEMS WE COULD NOT READ CLEARLY IN OCT. 1992:
(1) Lena Virginia Hutney. (?!? Carol, if any info is available about her
in your source on Blandford interments, I sure would like to learn more)
Her stone reads: "In loving memory of our dear friend Lena Virginia
Hutney, [Dec] 1858, Jan. 14, 1929. May peace and happiness be hers in
the beyond."
NOTE: At the foot of her grave, on the border was "Our Lena" (My thinking
is that Lena was just a beloved friend, but who knows at this point)
(2) Wm. D. Poythress, whose stone reads: "In loving remembrance of our
beloved brother and uncle William D. Poythress. Born July 11, 1834, Died
Jan. 29, 1919. To live in hearts we leave behind, is not to die." NOTE:
At the foot of his grave, on the border is "Our" which is adjacent to the
border of #3 below, so TOGETHER, the borders of #2 & #3 form a combined
message reading "Our All"
(3) Louisa O. Poythress, whose stone reads: "To memory of Louisa O.
Poythress, Died July 30, 1903. --30-- Safe at home." (Note: "30" in
publishing of newspapers indicates the end of an article.) NOTE: At the
foot of her grave is "All" re which see #2 above.
(4) Mollie Poythress, whose stone reads "Mollie, only daughter of Wm. D.
and Louisa O. Poythress, born January 13, 1857, died October 29, 1859. The
great Jehovah full of love, An angel bright did send, And took my little
harmless dove, To Joys that never end. Fare well dear Mollie till we meet
at the throne where love fears no parting and tears are unknown." NOTE:
The Blandford record of interments that I saw and photocopied shows that
her body was moved to W. D. Poythress' Square 2, Ward A, on "Oct. 9, 1872
from W. D. Poythress' Garden."
(5) Annie I. Taylor, whose stone reads: "Our beloved Annie I. Taylor.
Sept. 4, 1886, Aug. 12, 1979 'Miss Annie' She lived helping others to
live."
(6) Mary, whose stone reads: "To our devoted Mother Mary A. Wife of
[illegible] Taylor." NOTE: on a small stone at the foot of her graveplot
are her initials "M.A.T."

Thus it seems to me that Lyn Baird's message about Taylors being of
importance in unravelling the Poythress mystery, again comes to the
forefront. Carol, if ANY additional info is available about Annie
I.Taylor or Mary A. Taylor from your Blandford interments source, I sure
would appreciate learning it.

Barbara Poythress Neal 9/21/97
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/21/1997 12:01:11
Re: Pockrus FarewellCharles NealHelene & Marion,

Have been away for 10 days, & sorry to have been out of the loop when you
posted a "farewell." I can understand your need to work on your own line
in order to get it published, but we really will miss you if you haven't
changed your mind & have indeed unsubscribed. (Was pleased to see your
posting of a Poitras obit a couple of days later, so figure maybe you did
reconsider, or maybe you are just keeping us in mind for pertinent
sightings.-- Either way, THANKS) I personally can't imagine a week without
hearing a message or 2 from Maynard, and realize you feel similarly, so I'm
hoping that you reconsidered.

I just wanted to assure you that, thanks to you, I NEVER consult a source
now, without reading ALL the way thru the "P" list, to be sure and check
for Pockrus/et al. (And to assure you that I WILL look you folks up
whenever we get to Salt Lake this coming ski/research season, which we WILL
be doing again for the 3rd year in a row! BPW, how about you & Bill this
year?)

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/21/1997 12:01:13
Batte Chart - Section BCharles NealBill Bridgforth,

Thank you SO MUCH for the major start on putting together the Section B.
See the info I posted in the Winn/Wynn and Rebecca/Francis Poythress
message, which sort of fits in with your efforts. We all need to be
concentrating some efforts in that area sometime soon, and we should
certainly keep your request for more info in mind. Thanks again.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

09/21/1997 12:01:16
Re: WINN/WYNNE & Rebecca/Francis PoythressCharles NealI just returned from a 10-day absence & saw Lea Dowd's question & Craig's
good answer re how Rebecca, widow of Fra. Poythress, could quit claim goods
in Capt. Emberly's ship, belonging to Tho. & Joshua Wynn.

This brings to mind that one of the hundreds of things I need to do, is let
you folks know of a volume entitled __A Winn Family Story: The Ancestors
and All Identified Descendants of Llewellyn Parks Winn, 1841-1923 With
Historical, Social, and Geographic Background__ by Art Danforth, March
1986.

Back in Sept. 1991, I tracked down his daughter, Lynn Danforth Zender, who
was then living at 2202 Alameda Avenue, Davis, CA 95616 (up near San
Francisco, for those not familiar with CA.) Her father had died in May of
1987, and, to quote from Lynn's letter: "...He was very interested in
family and took great care in putting together genealogy volumes on 3
branches of our family: Winn, Sturges, and Danforth...While I have no
interest in carrying on his work, I am interested in making sure that the
material he wrote is distributed. I have at my home many copies of his
books. If you would be interested in having one, please send me a check
for $10 to cover shipping costs and I shall mail it out promptly. Dad left
a fair amount of research material which I am also storing. I have
forwarded the research material he had gathered for a Henley family
genealogy to a cousin who expressed an interest in compiling the data.
Again, thanks for your interest. I am only sorry that Dad could not have
answered your specific questions. Sincerely,"

I, of course, sent the $10 and got a copy of his copyrighted in 1986,
177-page book on Winn (one-sided 8.5" x 11" sheets, typed & photocopied,
and punched with 3 holes ready to put in a ringbinder). I would recommend
that anyone else interested in these early generations should also get a
copy of this book.

Per the book's index, there are only the following references to the
below-mentioned persons named Poythress. I haven't the time to go thru the
entire book right now, but I see that on the overview sheet at the front,
he treats the following successive generations, who could be of interest in
helping to work out Rebecca's & Francis' relationship to Thomas & Joshua
Wynn. Parentheses are his; square brackets are mine:
1. Robert Wynn (1563-1609) married Frances Wattmer ( ,d. 1609)
2. Peter Wynn (c.1600-1638) married Martha Coppin (1595- )
3. Robert Wynn (1622-1675) married Mary Poythress [no dates for her]
[NOTE: On p. 49, he states:] "Sometime about 1656 or 1657, probably, Robert
married Mary Poythress, the widow of Captain Francis Poythress; they had
been neighbors in Jordan's Parish. (Francis Poythress, who had migrated to
Virginia about 1633, died about 1650, leaving his widow and four children:
Francis, John, Jame, and Thomas. Francis Junior is referred to later on by
Robert as his 'son in law' -- a term which at that time also meant
stepson.)"
4. Joshua Wynn (c.1663 - ) married Mary Jones [no dates for her either]
[This line continues on down to the 8th generation being Frances E. Winn
(1803-1876) who married Edmund Parks Winn (1797 - c.1856) who is
simultaneously shown as descending from 2 generations of Winns that are NOT
of the same exact line as Frances' line, for those 2 generations. He notes
that:] "In generation 8, Frances E. Winn and Edmund Parks Winn were
cousins."

I see in a quick check that on p. 54, Danforth says that Thomas Wynne was
the older son of generation #3 above, and he was "born 1657 in Charles City
County... [& married Agnes whose surname, Danforth notes, is not known.]
... He was part owner with Joshua of goods on the ship of Capt. Emberly in
1688. His care of orphans was reviewed and continued in 1692. In 1701 he
patented 200 acres on the south side of Blackwater in Charles County (later
Prince George County) ... Thomas and his brother Joshua were Indian
interpreters. In 1703, the Nottoway and Meherrin Indians petitioned that he
be named their interpreter... In 1707, he recorded 500 acres on the south
side of the Nottoway River, and asked to have it surveyed to determine
whether it was in Prince George or Surry. His children were named Thomas,
Lucy, Mary (who married Nathaniel Malone), and Robert (whose wife was named
Mary). Thomas' will was dated Feb. 18, 1716/1717 in Surry, and it was
probated May 21, 1718. (Thomas was not in our direct family line.)"
Danforth mentions re Joshua, on p. 56, that Joshua "was born about 1663 in
Charles City County... was an attorney, and served as an administrator of
various estates from 1688 to 1692. He served as a surveyor of highways and
as an overseer of highways in South Westover in 1692. He was sworn in as a
subsheriff in 1694...[&] was appointed a Justice of the County Court in
1698, and later named a Major. In 1694, Joshua was an attorney for Mary
Jones, the daughter of Peter and Margaret Woods Jones. Mary became his
wife the next year. They had at least seven children: Margaret born about
1696, Peter, Thomas, Francis, Mary, Robert, and William [...of our direct
line] born in 1705."

Hope this volume would help others, and that Lynn Danforth Zender is still
findable for those interested in getting a copy. It is obvious that her
father did a LOT of research; I just wish he had given more specific
citations for things, but what he gave is probably sufficient to re-locate
things if one is willing to devote the time & effort needed.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/21/1997 12:01:19
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCarol A. MorrisonThis is a follow up--

I searched the indexes that I have for Blandford Cemetery for "Mary A.
Taylor" but did not come up with anything yet. Remember, I only have
copies of some of the books through 1943. Also, at this time, I can't
give you a report on Annie I. Taylor. I believe that I will be going to
Blandford near the end of this week but in any case, I'm going to go to
the Genealogy meeting at the LOV of Virginia that's scheduled for
October 17 & 18 and I have a friend flying in from Wisconsin to attend
on the 16th - so if not sooner, I should be able to actually check out
some more on the 16th of October.

In any case,

The Blandford Cemetery Book "Records of Interments 1924-1943", at page
53 - has the following entry:

Lena V. Huntley (not as Hutney), buried January 16, 1929, [no parents
given], died Jan. 14, 1929, of Inflenza Pneumonia, age 57, [place of
birth left blank]. Int. SE corner Sqr. 2 WAOG.

and just in case, William D. Poythress owned the whole Square 2 --
actually, a square usually consists of 10 graves (although you sometimes
have children buried in the same grave or grave site); there is the east
side and the west side with the east side facing the Crater Road; also
from left to right, and west and east, the graves are labeled as --
this is generally as there are always exceptions --

S. Crater Road side
[SW corner - 2nd SW - Center 1/2 W - 2nd NW - NW corner]
[SE corner - 2nd SE - Center 1/2 E - 2nd NE - NE corner]

in "Records of Interments 1888-1905", at page 16 --

Buried Dec. 24, 1889, Henry W. Potter, son of H. H. & Isabella G.
Potter, Died Dec. 22, of Cerebrial Congestion, age 36 - - ; born North
Carolina. Interred 2nd grave from N side of W 1/2 No. 2, WAOG. Died at
Washington, D.C.

His mother, Isabella, is buried next to him and she died in 1873. I
think she's in the index as J. C. Potter. The Death records for City of
Petersburg, also seem to show her as J. C. (but in those days, "J" and
"I" were generally written the same way and the "C" could be a "G")

City of Petersburg, Death records 1873--

line 321. J. C. Potter, white, female, died 18th Novr. 1873 (this is
also what the headstone of Isabella G. Potter shows in Blandford
Cemetery), died Petersburg, Va, of Consumption, age 58, daughter of
Willis & Mary Scott, born Raleigh, NC, married.

Now it could be that the Potter family owned the West half of Square 2
and William D. Poythress owned the East half.

Mollie Poythress' burial record is on page 10 of "Record of Interments
1872-1877" but since I don't have that book handy, I can't look that up
right now.

I also checked City of Petersburg Death Records for 1859 but didn't find
Mollie. I'll try to check, just in case, Dinwiddie Co. Deaths some time
this afternoon, if I can. I did find the following entry...

1859, City of Petersburg --
Benj. W. Poythress, white, male, died Mar. 16, Petersburg, Va., of
Catarrh Fever, age 5m15days, son of Benj. & Susan Poythress. Born
Petersburg, Va., Informant, Benj. Poythress.

I also noticed when I was browsing Blandford Index for 1872-1877 book
that there is, in additional to the burial for Mollie, an entry for
Susan M. Poythress on page 74. So I also checked City of Petersburg
Deaths and found this one--

1877, City of Petersburg--
line 467, Poythress, Susan M., white, female, died 24 Nov?. Died 36 So.
Market Street, of Comsumption, age 52-9-12. Daughter of Thos. & C.
Williams, born Sussex Co., occupation - Seamstress, Widow.

I remember seeing an entry in the Blandford Record of Interments (I
think in the previous book that covers 1843-1871) for a Benjamin
Poythress. I'll pull it out later and send you that info.

BTW, the 1850 Census for City of Petersburg, shows a William Poythress,
age 14, student, in the household of J. M. H. Brunet - 464/542. Do you
think this might be William D.? I know his headstone indicates that he
was born in 1834 and this would indicate that this fellow was born in
1836.

There is also at 509/600 (these are references to dwelling #/family #)
for Benjamin Potress, age 42, male, Huxter, born Virginia, also in
household....Mary, age 26, George, age 1, and others.

Carol		09/21/1997 12:01:52
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCarol A. MorrisonIn previous email - I sent, I had --

"Buried Dec. 24, 1889, Henry W. Potter, son of H. H. & Isabella G.
Potter, Died Dec. 22, of Cerebrial Congestion, age 36 - - ; born North
Carolina. Interred 2nd grave from N side of W 1/2 No. 2, WAOG. Died at
Washington, D.C.

Now it could be that the Potter family owned the West half of Square 2
and William D. Poythress owned the East half."

I meant to add that from the entry above regarding Henry W. Potter, in
describing where his grave was located i.e., ". . .N side of W 1/2 No.
2"
that this is what usually was indicated - that Potter's owned west half
and
that Poythress owned East half.

Carol		09/21/1997 12:13:06
Fwd: Ransom-PortressIn a message dated 97-09-19 09:03:31 EDT, VWTK60A@prodigy.com writes:

<< Laws
of North Carolina 1787 , p. 939, Chapter XLII
An Act for Altering the Names of Certain Persons therein Mentioned,
(several others) and
"desire of Richard Ransom that the names of Robert Porthress and
Benjamin Clevers Porthress of Franklin Co. should be altered to
Robert Ransom and Benjamin Clevers Ransom.."
I won't quote the full posting, but the upshot appeared to be this
legal name change, which was retroactive to the date of birth, was
not an adoption proceeding, but rather fathers giving legitimacy to
their out of wedlock children, probably born before marriage to the
mother.

Well, half my question is answered. These two boys indeed, WERE RANSOMS.
But I am still left with the WHO WERE C. KESIAH PORTIS/PORTHRESS' parents?
SHE wa b.1763 m. in Halifax NC 1784 d. 1841 in Tenn.

Does anyone have clues? Would the marriage record show her parents...of
course not, would it?

Caroline Burnett Cook

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: VWTK60A@prodigy.com ( GENE B ROOK)
To: CarBurCo@aol.com
Date: 97-09-19 09:03:31 EDT

Carolina, was it you who had the Ransom married to Keziah
Porter/Portris? I just downloaded something fascinating, out of Laws
of North Carolina 1787 , p. 939, Chapter XLII
An Act for Altering the Names of Certain Persons therein Mentioned,
(several others) and
"desire of Richard Ransom that the names of Robert Porthress and
Benjamin Clevers Porthress of Franklin Co. should be altered to
Robert Ransom and Benjamin Clevers Ransom.."
I won't quote the full posting, but the upshot appeared to be this
legal name change, which was retroactive to the date of birth, was
not an adoption proceeding, but rather fathers giving legitimacy to
their out of wedlock children, probably born before marriage to the
mother. Is this your family?
Gene in NC		09/22/1997 10:32:59
Re: Louisa & Wm & Taylors - BlandfordCharles Neal9/22/97 9:35 pm

Carol, thanks so much for the Blandford site address, and especially thank
you from all of us "out here in web land" for all the work you do so well
on maintaining so many helpful sites.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/22/1997 10:45:52
Prince George Co., VALea L. DowdVirginia State Archives Accession #22483
Division of slaves of William Poythress, dec'd by decree of Prince George
Co. Court ___ July 1775, we have divided the slaves William Poythress died
possessed of, between the plaintiffs John Gordon & Lucy his wife, Ann Isham
Poythress, and Mary Poythress and the defendant Benjamin Poythress, and
allotted to each of the legatees their share. the value of those allotted
to John and Lucy Gordon was unequal to the value of those given to the
others, and Benjamin is to pay the other legatees: To Ann Isham Poythress
L3/13/4; to Benjamin Poythress as heir of William Poythress, Jr., L8/13/4;
to Benjamin Poythress as heir of Sally Poythress, L1/13/4. Recorded 1 Feb
1777.

Lea		09/23/1997 8:20:50
Prince George Co., VALea L. DowdVA State Archives Accession # 23684
Will of Thomas Epes of Prince George Co. (abstracted for length) dated 26
Aug 1779
Legatees: Wife Betty, Kinsman William Poythress, son of Joshua Poythress;
Kinsman Richard Epes son of Peter Epes; Kinsman Peter Epes, son of Peter
Epes; Godson James Irby, if he dies to his sister Lucy Irby; Godson
Archibald Robertson; sister Mary Mason; niece Elizabeth Richardson wife of
Jordan Richardson; niece Mary Mason; niece Rebecca Mason; Kinsman Francis
Epes, son of Peter Epes; Goddaughter Sarah Epes, daughter of Peter Epes;
Godson William Scott son of Thomas Scott; Thomas Scott son of Thomas Scott;
sister in law Martha Coleman; nephew Thomas Mason; William Epes son of
Peter Epes; Peter Scott son of Thomas Scott; James Scott son of Thomas
Scott; Elizabeth Scott daughter of Thomas Scott.

Prince George Co., VA Surveyor's Record 1794-1824 P. 189 15 May 1810
Pursuant to an order of the court and by direction of John Batte, John H.
Peterson, and Peter Epes, I surveyed estate of William Poythress, dec'd,
863A, bounded by Stainback, Batte, Hunnicutt, the stage road, Thomas
Mattox, the Poor House land, estate of John Watt's dec'd, old courthouse
road, William Poythress's land called "Branchester" and Simmons branch.
Plat shows: 200A to Patrick Poythress, 313A to William Poythress, 50A to
John Poythress, 300A to Thomas Poythress.		09/23/1997 9:41:30
Pr. George CO., VALea L. DowdPrince George Co., VA, DB 1787-1792 P. 111 11 Feb 1788
Nicholas Faulcon requests that Miss Susanna Poythress will excuse from
being an executor of Mrs. Mary Poythress's will, due to illness. Says he is
the only one of the named executors still living. Says that Miss Poythress
is now of legal age to be administrator.

Prince George Co., VA, DB 1787-1792 P.112 Dated 9 Feb 1782/Pr. 12 Feb
1788
Will of Mary Poythress of Martins Brandon Parish
To daughter Wilmuth Harrison, gold ring and gold sleeve buttons; daughter
Susannah Poythress, all the rest of the estate, including my portion of my
deceased husband Peter Poythress's legacy from his father's will. Ex:
Nicholas Faulcon, Peter Poythress, Joshua Poythress. Wit: Dorothy Read,
Colin Cocke, Barbary Norton, Joseph Poythress, Susanna Cocke.		09/23/1997 10:46:30
Prince George Co., VACharles NealLea,

Thanks so much for the PG Co. info and abstracting. Good work.

I think I may have located Lynn Danforth Zender. I should actually get
beyond the telephone-tag stage tomorrow, I hope. And hopefully she has
more copies of the book. Will keep you posted.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

09/23/1997 11:14:03
Fw: GILLAM-D Digest V97 #30Marion & Helene PockrusHelene-still looking for connections.
Helene

----------
> From: Scot168@aol.com
> To: GILLAM-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: GILLAM-D Digest V97 #30
> Date: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 11:25 AM
>
> Robert Gilliam (1794 - 1884) m. Charlotte Saxnay (Sanxay)
> John Gilliam (1761 -1823) m Hannah Sampson
> Robert Gilliam (1740 - 1793) m Lucy Skelton
> John Gilliam (1712 - 1774) m Elizabeth Poythress
> John Gilliam (1663 - 1738) m Ann Bathurst
> John Gilliam (1614 - 1671) m Margery (Henshaw?)
>
> >From the research of Richard Davenport Gilliam (1855 - 1935) and his son
> Charles Edgar Gilliam (1894 - 1980 approx)		09/23/1997 11:20:51
POYTHRESS- Virginia State ArchivesPMCOTo all: visit the Virginia State Archives Home Page for information on
land records and Poythress papers.

Directions to: POYTHRESS "R. Bolling Batte Papers, Biographical Card
Files"

http://LEO.VSLA.EDU

down to "on line catalogs and image databases

select "Genealogical" from Archival & Library Collection

select "R. Bolling Batte Papers - Bigraphical Card Files"

down to POYTHRESS

I hope you find this of interest and helps in your research.

Jim Richardson in Richmond

09/23/1997 11:37:36
Please HELPLea L. DowdI am not a Poythress, but I am supposedly a Wynn. Could someone please
identify these people for me?

Prince George Co., VA, W & D Bk 1710-1713 P. 77 10 Feb 1711
There is a contract of marriage agreed upon by Capt. Josh. Wynn, Gent. of
Prince George Co., and Frances Cocke, relict of Thomas Cocke, dec'd and
marriage is shortly to be solomnized. Signed Joshua Wynne, Frances Cocke.

Thanks,
Lea		09/24/1997 2:22:14
Wynn/Winn bookCharles NealDear All,

The book that I quoted from in my message of 9/2, which message was
captioned "Re: Winn/Wynn & Rebecca/Francis Poythress" is indeed still
available from Lynn (Danforth) Zender, daughter of Art Danforth who created
the 177-page book back in March 1987. If anyone else is interested in
getting a copy, below is the information you need from the Email message I
got after tracking her down.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

To: BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
From: Karl Zender
Subject: Winn Family History

Hi--

I am sending this from our e-mail at home which is connected to my
husband's
e-mail address.

Sorry I did not get home early enough to call you Tues nite. Yes, I do
have
some more copies of the Winn Family Story. If you send me a check for $10
for each book I will send it/them to you. This will cover shipping also.
Make sure I have your current address. Our address is: 2202 Alameda
Avenue, Davis, Ca 95616.

Thanks for your continuing interest.

Lynn Zender		09/24/1997 8:23:07
moreLea L. DowdPrince George Co., VA, DB 1787-1792 P. 422 2 Oct 1790
William Poythress and Mary his wife of Prince George Co. to William Samuel
Peachy of Amelia Co. L1350, 300A on James River where Joshua Poythress, the
elder, formerly lived and was devised to sd William Poythress by his
father's Joshua's will; also one other tract abt 1 mile from above
containing abt 100A which sd Joshua Poythress purchased from Hatch. Rec 12
Oct 1790

Lea		09/24/1997 12:07:18
Worth repeatingCharles NealLast night, Helene Pockrus sent this to me, apologizing for a second
"non-genie" message in 2 days. But it is well worth reading, so I am
passing it on to all here.
Ay!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
>>>
>All the Good Things
>
> He was in the first third grade class I taught at Saint Mary's School
in Morris, Minn. All 34 of my students were dear to me, but Mark Eklund
was one in a million. Very neat in appearance, but had that
happy-to-be-alive attitude that made even his occasional mischievousness
delightful.
>
> Mark talked incessantly. I had to remind him again and again that
talking without permission was not acceptable. What impressed me so much,
though, was his sincere response every time I had to
correct him for misbehaving - "Thank you for correcting me, Sister!" I
didn't know what to make of it at first, but before long I became
accustomed to hearing it many times a day.
>
> One morning my patience was growing thin when Mark talked once too
often, and then I made a novice-teacher's mistake. I looked at Mark and
said, "If you say one more word, I am going to tape your mouth shut!"
>
> It wasn't ten seconds later when Chuck blurted out, "Mark is talking
again." I hadn't asked any of the students to help me watch Mark, but
since I had stated the punishment in front of the class, I had to act on
it.
>
> I remember the scene as if it had occurred this morning. I walked to
my desk, very deliberately opened my drawer and took out a roll of scotch
tape. Without saying a word, I proceeded to Mark's desk, tore off two
pieces of tape and made a big X with them over his mouth. I then returned
to the front
of the room.
>
> As I glanced at Mark to see how he was doing, he winked at me. That
did it!! I started laughing. The class cheered as I walked back to Mark's
desk, removed the tape, and shrugged my shoulders. His first
words were, "Thank you for correcting me, Sister."
>
> As the end of the year I was asked to teach junior-high math. The
years flew by, and before I knew it Mark was in my classroom again. He was
more handsome than ever and just as polite. Since he had to
listen carefully to my instructions in the "new math," he did not talk as
much in eigth grade as he had in third.
>
> One Friday, things just didn't feel right. We had worked hard on a
new concept all week, and I sensed that the students were frowning,
frustrated with themselves - and edgy with one another. I had to stop
this crankiness before it got out of hand. So I asked them to list the
names of the other students in the room on two sheets of paper, leaving a
space between each name.
>
> Then I told them to think of the nicest thing they could say about
each of their classmates and write it down.
>
> It took the remainder of the class period to finish the assignment,
and as the students left the room, each one handed me the papers. Charlie
smiled. Mark said, "Thank you for teaching me, Sister.
Have a good weekend."
>
> That Saturday, I wrote down the name of each student on a separate
sheet of paper, and I listed what everyone else had said about that
individual. On Monday I gave each student his or her list. Before long,
the entire class was smiling. Really?" I heard whispered. "I never knew
that meant anything to anyone!" "I didn't know others liked me so much!"
>
> No one ever mentioned those papers in class again. I never knew if
they discussed them after class or with their parents, but it didn't
matter. The exercise had accomplished its purpose. The students were
happy with themselves and one another again.
>
> That group of students moved on. Several years later, after I
returned from vacation, my parents met me at the airport. As we were
driving home, Mother asked me the usual questions about the trip - the
weather, my experiences in general. There was a light lull in the
conversation. Mother gave Dad a side-ways glance and simply says, "Dad?"
My father cleared his throat as he usually did before something important.
"The Eklunds called last night," he began.
>
> "Really?" I said. "I haven't heard from them in years. I wonder how
Mark is."
>
> Dad responded quietly. "Mark was killed in Vietnam," he said. "The
funeral is tomorrow, and his parents would like if it you could attend."
To this day I can still point to the exact spot on I-494 where
Dad told me about Mark.
>
> I had never seen a serviceman in a military coffin before. Mark
looked so handsome, so mature. All I could think at that moment was, Mark,
I would give all the masking tape in the world if only you would talk to
me.
>
> The church was packed with Mark's friends. Chuck's sister sang "The
Battle Hymn of the Republic." Why did it have to rain on the day of the
funeral? It was difficult enough at the graveside. The pastor said the
usual prayers, and the bugler played taps. One by one those who loved Mark
took a last walk by the coffin and sprinkled it with holy water.
>
> I was the last one to bless the coffin. As I stood there, one of the
soldiers who had acted as pallbearer came up to me. "Were you Mark's math
teacher?" he asked. I nodded as I continue to stare at the coffin. "Mark
talked about you a lot," he said.
>
> After the funeral, most of Mark's former classmates headed to Chuck's
farmhouse for lunch. Mark's mother and father were there, obviously
waiting for me. "We want to show you something," his father said, taking a
wallet out of his pocket. "They found this on Mark when he was killed. We
thought you might recognize it."
>
> Opening the billfold, he carefully removed two worn pieces of notebook
paper that had obviously been taped, folded and refolded many times. I knew
without looking that the papers were the ones on which I had listed all the
good things each of Mark's classmates had said about him. "Thank you so
much for doing that, " Mark's mother said. "As you can see, Mark treasured
it."
>
> Mark's classmates started to gather around us. Charlie smiled rather
>sheepishly and said, "I still have my list. It's in the top drawer of my
desk at home." Chuck's wife said, "Chuck asked me to put
this in our wedding album." "I have mine too," Marilyn said. "It's in my
diary." Then Vicki, another classmate, reached into her pocketbook, took
out her wallet and showed her worn and frazzled list to the group. "I
carry this with me at all times," Vicki said without batting an eyelash.
"I think we all saved our lists."
>
> That's when I finally sat down and cried. I cried for Mark and for
all his friends who would never see him again.
> THE END
> written by: Sister Helen P. Mrosla
>
>The purpose of this letter, is to encourage everyone to compliment the
people >you love and care about. We often tend to forget the importance of
showing our affections and love. Sometimes the smallest of things, could
mean the most to another. I am asking you, to please send this letter
around and spread the message and encouragement, to express your love and
caring by complimenting and being open with communication. The density of
people in society, is so thick, that we forget that life will end one day.
And we don't know when that one day will be. So please, I beg of you, to
tell the people
>you love and care for, that they are special and important. Tell them,
before it is too late. I leave these messages with you and ask you to
continue to spread the message to everyone you know.
end
--
When you shake the family tree wondrous stories pour forth!
(Also some fruits & nuts!!)		09/25/1997 11:21:08
Re:All The Good ThingsHelene and Barb,
Thank you very much for sending "All The Good Things" to the list.
I just sat here and had a good cry while reading it. I'm printing
it so I can share it with my family tonight. Sometimes us who
are involved in genealogy seem so intrested in the past, we forget
about our family, and friends in the present, and need little
reminders. I'm making a list of people to reach out and touch
today.

Linda

09/26/1997 6:48:16
Going Away AgainCharles NealWe'll be gone from now until Monday night, 9/29, when I will again have to
try to play catch-up on Email.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		09/26/1997 8:08:04
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #111Righton McCallumPOYTHRESS-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote:
>
> POYTHRESS-D Digest Volume 97 : Issue 111
>
> Today's Topics:
> #1 Poitras ["Marion & Helene Pockrus" > #2 FRANCIS d. before Jan 1688/9 ["Lea L. Dowd" ]
> #3 Still reading in CCC, VA ["Lea L. Dowd" ]
> #4 More CCC, VA ["Lea L. Dowd" ]
>
> ______________________________
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Poitras
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:45:00 -0600
> From: "Marion & Helene Pockrus"
> To:
>
> POITRAS, Polly Stevens Miss; 97; Ottawa ON; Ottawa Citizen; 1997-9-10;
> gmillar
>
> Listed in the Obituary Times today.
>
> Helene
>
> ______________________________
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: FRANCIS d. before Jan 1688/9
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:47:10 -0400
> From: "Lea L. Dowd"
> To:
>
> Could someone please tell me how Rebecca could do this?
> Thanks,
> Lea
>
> Charles City Co. Ct. Rec. 1687-1695 P. 188 8 Jan 1688
> Adm with will annexed granted Rebecca, widow of Fra. Poythress, dec'd. She
> does quit claim to what goods are now in Capt. Emberly's ship, belonging to
> Tho. and Joshua Wynn. Signed Pr. Perry.
>
> ______________________________
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Still reading in CCC, VA
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:19 -0400
> From: "Lea L. Dowd"
> To:
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct Rec 1688-1695 P. 193 4 Feb 1688/89
> Suit of John Poythress as marrying Xtian, daughter of Eliza. Peebles vs
> Tho. Busby, referred to next court.
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 209. 3 Apr 1689
> Judgmt granted Elizabeth Edmunds, daughter of Sarah, the now wife of John
> Lanier, for certain items as gifts of sd Sarah in her widowhood.
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 250 3 Oct 1689
> Report of Maj. Jno Stith and Capt. Dan. Lewellin auditors of a difference
> between Xpher Batty and the widow Frost:
> First: that Xpher Batty was to have his diet at his daughter Eliz. Frost's
> house from the 7th day of this month, Sept. until middle of April next, in
> same quantity as condition between Batty and Jno. Frost, dec'd specifies;
> and his daughter was to keep and maintain a stock of cattle which the sd
> Frost had from the sd Batty, until mid April next, and then deliver to sd
> Batty....
> long case and Eliz: doesn't want to agree to terms, but finally does.
>
> Lea
>
> ______________________________
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: More CCC, VA
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 06:34:26 -0400
> From: "Lea L. Dowd"
> To:
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 500 4 June 1694
> Attorney General exhibits information against Charles Bartholomew for
> making an unlawful marriage. Attachment awarded agst body of sd Charles,
> returnable to next court. Sheriff is to summon Rebecca, relict of Francis
> Poythress to appear adn answer information of an unlawful marriage to
> Charles Bartholomew.
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 505 3 Aug 1694
> Case of Attorny General vs Charles Bartholomew for unlawful marriage to
> Rebecca Poythress. Bartholomew now appears and quotes 2 statutes re
> marriage and says his marriage is cognizable only by ecclesiastical
> jurisdiction. Court overules this plea. Bartholomew says that he has not
> violated the law.
> P. 506 Deposition of John Jane that he knew Frances, late wife of Charles
> Bartholomew and knows Rebecca, relict of Francis Poythress, and says the
> two were sisters, being daughters of the same mother. John Bishop swears
> the same. Joshua Wynn says he knew both women from childhood and they were
> always taken as sisters by one mother. Because of the absence of Mr. George
> Robinson, Clerk, who joined them in marriage, case is referred to next
> court.
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 509-510 3 Aug 1694
> William Randolph, Esq., Att. Gen brings case against Charles Bartholomew
> referred from last court. Repeats that Charles Bartholomew and Rebecca wife
> of late Maj. Francis Poythress were married in Westover Parish 2 Feb 1693
> by Mr. George Robinson, Bristol Parish, Henrico Co., Clerk and live
> together. Bartholomew pleads not guilty to unlawful marriage. Wm Epes said
> he saw same. John Jane says Rebecca and Frances are daughters of one
> mother, but different fathers. Thomas Blighton says he frequented the
> house of John Coggan in his lifetime and often heard Coggans wife call said
> Rebecca and Frances daughters and the sd daughters own themselves sisters.
> Jury brings in verdict of not guilty. Attorny General appeals. Bartholomew
> to give surities to live apart from Rebecca until suit settled.
>
> Now this is interesting.....So far nothing more is heard on this case -
> then
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 543 3 Dec 1694
> Charles Bartholomew appoints William Randolph of Henrico his attorney for
> any suit in Charles City Co. court.
>
> Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 549 4 Dec 1694
> Henry Reed exhibits his bill in chancery against Charles Bartholomew and
> Rebecca his wife, Extrx of Major Francis Poythress shows that one Ann Young
> sister of the orator died intestate in this county. Maj. Francis Poythress
> had inventoried this estate and was thereof possessed. Adm. was granted to
> Maj. Francis Poythress and Peter Reed orator;s father. It discusses
> property in the estate and states that shortly afterward Poythress went to
> England and died, in the nonage of the orator. Discusses other property
> belonging to John, orphan of Ann Young.
>
> LeaThis is only the second time that I have ever heard of this, but in
Indiantown Presbyterian Church records in S.C. there was a man
excommunicated from the church for marrying his sister-in-law after his
first wife's death. It was considered adultery. Now this poor man had 9
small children(probably explains the wife's early demise) and who else
was he going to find willing to take care of them? Some of these old
laws were interesting by modern standards.RMC		09/28/1997 9:44:20
Fwd: Pocahontas Descendant StoryThought those of you interested in the possible Pocahontas-Rolfe descendancy
might be interested to see...the beat goes on, and on...

Caroline
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: ARicka7565@aol.com
Sender: va-hist@leo.vsla.edu
Reply-to: va-hist@leo.vsla.edu
To: va-hist@leo.vsla.edu (Multiple recipients of list)
Date: 97-09-29 09:09:18 EDT

Dear All

Just to let you know that I have combined the information I have gathered
from various sources into a descendant story of Pocahontas starting with her
Grand-father and progressing through to the family of Benjamin BOLLING and
Patsy FELTS.

This information is linked to the Pocahontas/John Rolfe/Jamestown section of
my web site, the URL for which is in the signature to this e-mail.

I appreciate that I still have a great deal of work still to do but thought
that some of you may be interested to see what I have so far. By the way, I
do not claim to be infallible so if you see anything wrong or questionable do
please let me know.

Regards

Alan Rickards
Holmes Chapel, Cheshire, England
Alan's Genealogy and Cheshire, England Page:
http://members.tripod.com/~AlanCheshire/index.html		09/29/1997 7:24:27
Fwd: FLOWERDEW HUNDREDDon't know how many of you monitor the Va-hist list, but this one came in,
too. This msg may shed no light on the Poythress genealogy, but an
interesting story in the list's continuing discussion of duelling in early
Va.

Caroline
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: egregory@techcom.net (Eva Gregory)
Sender: va-hist@leo.vsla.edu
Reply-to: va-hist@leo.vsla.edu
To: va-hist@leo.vsla.edu (Multiple recipients of list)
Date: 97-09-29 09:12:05 EDT

Greeting all,

I did a bit of research on Flowerdew Hundred in the 70s. What follows is
mostly from memory. George Yeardley was shipwrecked with Thomas Gates in
Bermuda. A voyage to Virginia in 1609, ed. Louis B. Wright, (U.Press. of
Va., 1967) gives two contemporary accounts of this adventure. He
married Temperance Flowerdew, and her family probably invested in the
private plantation that he patented in 1619. She was a cousin of John
Pory. Check out John Pory/1572-1636 The Life and Letters of a Man of
Many Parts, William S. Powell (Chapel Hill, 1977). Her brother Stanley
Flowerdew (mother was a Stanley, hence Stanley Hundred) and her nephew
Edward Rossingham were involved to some extent in the development of
Flowerdew Hundred.

It appears that the windmill Yeardley had at Flowerdew Hundred is the
earliest one known in English America. Yeardley's earlier service in the
Low Countries probably inspired him to try a windmill there. The modern
reproduction there now is not at all like the little portable mill that
Yeardley later sold to Capemerchant Abraham Piercey along with the
plantation. Yeardley was governor when he wrote to England excusing
himself from executing Captain Eppes who had bashed Capt. Stallings over
the head with his sword "butt, scabbard and all" during an emphatic
difference of opinion. He said Stallings was dispensable, but he needed
Eppes to run one of the plantations. There was no mention then of its
being a duel, but what did Yeardley know of such fine distinctions?
Wasn't it Dudley Carleton who said the figures on Yeardley's newly
acquired coat-of-arms represented greed chasing avarice, or words to
that effect?

Most of Yeardley's correspondence is in volume III of Susan Kingsbury's
Records of the Virginia Company of London. I still savor Yeardley's
"Machiavellian villainies" applied to the actions of the rival faction
in the company. Kingsbury should not be neglected by those interested in
the company years of Virginia's founding. Records in Kingsbury are
probably more accessible for many people than the handwritten documents
in the Farrer Papers and the Colonial Records Project. For further fine
entertainment, don't pass up the Minutes of the Council of Virginia,
published by the Library of Virginia.
--
Eve S. Gregory, Director
Virginia Foundation for Archaeological Research, Inc.
egregory@techcom.net
http://www.techcom.net/egregory		09/29/1997 7:34:46
You'll Never Believe This :-)!Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is a note I just received. As you might expect, I replied that we'd
LOVE to have this information!

Best,
Al Tims

Text of Message:

Have some very distant information taken from a History of Franklin, VA
written by my great great grandfather, wherein he makes reference to a
Poythress who designs a "submarine," in the Blackwater or Nottoway. If
this is your line, I will be happy to forward his recollections.

bbc

09/30/1997 10:57:05
Poythress SubmarineAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the additional information about the Poythress submarine story.
Please note that the sender is very concerned that we might take offense by
the account. I assured her that we would not. I have asked for additional
information about the time period of this "colorful" account so that we
might be able to better place this fellow.

Best,
Al Tims

Dear Albert Tims,

I just got out my copy of "The First History of Franklin," written by
Richard C. Barrett around 1920. I am debating as to whether to use the
original previously-unpublished text, or to make a few editions. In any
case, please forgive any comments which you might find offensive, and
take to heart that it is said that my gg grandfather "tippled" from time
to time. Here goes, quoting:

The first submarine of which I ever heard was invented and constructed
by a Southampton County man, whose name, however, is not likely to go
down in history as the originator of this type engine of destruction.
Allow me to introduce John Poythress, 3 feet-7 inches in height and
weight of 52 pounds, long hair and beard and only four teeth (which
suggested tusks both in length and appearance). With a section of what
had been the smoke stack of a saw mill and about 5 feet in length, the
ends were closed with wooden heads, made water-tight, and a rubber tube
some 20 feet long inserted to supply fresh air to the "crew" of one man
inside, this crude precursor of the more modern "U" Boat was taken to
the river near the County road bridge and the intrepid "investor" made
ready to give a public demonstration of the utility of his "boat."
Crawling inside through one of the ends, he asked one of the spectators
to close the "door" and fasten it securely. All refused except one of
his neighbors, who had been sent for by Capt. Jack, and was begged to do
this as a personal favor. This "friend" rolled the "boat" down a steep
bank into the river. In case of emergency, Jack was to signal by
pulling the rubber tube, when somebody would drag him, boat and all, to
the shore. Violent tugs of the life line soon indicated that Capt. Jack
was anxious to return to the surface of the water, if not to terra
firma, which was soon accomplished by the aforesaid friend, all the
others present being apparently willing to "let the fool drown," as one
individual frankly declared. Poythress was generally known as "Jack
Poultice," and is still remembered by the older people in the county
around Courtland and Franklin, where on all public occasions, he gave
many exhibitions of his abilities, such as swallowing a long knife
blade, standing on his head drinking all the whiskey the crowd would
furnish, taking the glass from the ground with his teeth, never touching
it with his hands." End quote.

Hope this is not too offensive. Just remember, they did a lot of crazy
things in and around old Jerusalem and Southampton. He also includes
more serious matters in his history, including formation of churches,
the railroads, businesses, great fire of Franklin, business people,
steamship lines, etc. He obviously had many fond memories of your
ancestor, or he wouldn't have chosen to include him at such length.

As I said, the document has never been published, for obvious reasons.
All of my cousins have copies, but we prefer that it remain a private
document - among cousins.
If you can find out anything about my Richard Barrett, b. c. 1813, m.
(1) Amanda Louisa Fitzallen Murfee and (2) Mary Rebecca Murfee, first
cousin of his first wife), please contact me. Surely, someone in your
researchers would have something. As to posting it to your Web site, it
may not be wise - maybe share by snail mail, if you want. I will leave
the decision to you.

There are many Poythress family members in the computer at the LDS
Family History Center. Don't know if you've exhausted that end or not.
Also, records in Southampton are very complete and well used; however,
it costs a yankee dollar for copies. I'm sure you could find additional
information there. Someone said they had a new courthouse to pay for in
Courtland...

Please let me know if this has been too offensive. It was not my
intent, and I'm sure my gg grandfather's, either. He may have been "the
friend" that Capt. Jack sent for.

Take care - bbc		10/01/1997 8:00:42
Peter POYTHRESSStarrHello everyone,
I just completed a most interesting book: _The Great American
Gentleman William BYRD of Westover in VA: His Secret Diary for the Years
1709-1712_ edited by Louis B. Wright and Marion Tinling. GP Putnam's: NY
1963. The forward explains they've located three of his diaries -- all
written in code -- and the 1670ish book which he learned the code from.
The "middle" diary covers his years in London and the third his latter
years in VA. There was a larger book on the shelf which "might have been"
the complete set -- but I chose this earlier one for several reasons,
including the current lack of time to wade through the larger one.
BTW, this book is not indexed.

I want to pass along the references to Peter POYTHRESS -- all in
connection with Indian trade and NC Indian troubles. I'm editing out the
portions of time he got up, did his exercies, what he ate and his evening
prayers.

(Page 180) 8 OCT 1711: ... I got there about one o'clock and found the
Governor, Colonel Harrison and Colonel Ludwell which last had been sick.
They reproached me for staying so long, but I excused myself because the
express had not brought me the letter till yesterday. About 2 o'clock we
went to dinner and I ate boiled beef for my part. After dinner we sat in
council concerning the Indians and some of the Tributaries came before us
who promised to be very faithful to us. It was agreed to send PETER
POYTHRESS to the Tuscaroras to treat them and to demand the Baron
Graffenriedt who was prisoner among the Indians. It was also resolved that
the militia of Prince Geroge, Surry, and Isle of Wight should rendezvous at
Nottoway town on Wednesday next and the Governor be there with them to show
some part of our strength to the Indians. In the evening came several
gentlemen and Mr. Bland among them with letters for the Governor from
Carolina which told him how backward the people of that country were to
[advantage] themselves. ...

(page 182-3) 19 OCT 1711: ... about 9 o'clock got on our horses and waited
on the Governor to see him put the foot in order. [He] divided the
companies and made them about 50 men each, and made captains over them,
though when he came to Surry he found it difficult to get captains because
everybody refused the Governor and made him so angry that he swore at
several which was a thing he seldom did. ... the Governor exercise the
foot. I drew up the volunteers into a company or troop and commanded them
under the name of the Governor's Guard and we placed ourshelves on the
right. About 3 o'clock the Tuscarora Indians came with their guard and Mr.
POYTHRESS with them. He told the Governor that the Baron was alive and
would be released but that Mr. Lawson was killed because he had been so
foolish as to threaten the Indian that had taken him. ...

(page 216) 11 MAR 1712: The weather was clear and cold; however I went
over the river about 11 o'clock and then proceeded on my journey to Major
Harrison's where I got about 3 o'clock ... In the evening PETER POYTHRESS
came with 14 of the Tuscarora Indians whom he was going to conduct to the
Governor. They told us the Carolina men had killed no more than about 20
old men and women of their people and had taken about 30 children prisoners
when all the young men were not at home, that the Tuscaroras could [cut]
them all off but that they saw some English among them which hindered them
and their business with the Governor was to give the reason why they could
not perform their articles and to inquire whether they might defend
themselves in case they're attacked.

(page 217) 16 MAR 1712: In the afternoon PETER POYTHRESS came over and
told me the Governor received the Tuscaroras very coldly and ordered them
to go and help the people of Carolina cut off Hancock town, which they said
they would.

Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		10/01/1997 9:29:19
Capt JackCharles Neal10/1/97

Al,

Please pass on to "bbc" my sincere thanks for the info, and for giving me a
good laugh-of-the-day, to boot. Also, I have a question: It sounds like
this
John Poythress lived approximately during the same years as her
gggrandfather,
so it would be helpful to know:
(1) years her gggfthr lived
(2) city/town/area where her gggfthr lived
(3) which river, and if she has any clue, which "County road bridge" was
referred to.

Thanks again so much for passing this on!!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/01/1997 11:11:24
Byrd - re Peter PoythressCharles Neal10/1/97

Linda,

Thanks so much for sharing these references to Peter Poythress. It gives a
pretty precise window of time, just to look at the dates of the references,
since they only range from 8 Oct 1711 to 16 March 1712.
Thank you!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/01/1997 11:12:09
John Poythress WillBob RansomHi Carol, great to see your post on John Poythress! My 4th ggm was
KEZZIAH PORTIS/PORTHRESS/POYTHRESS b. 1763 in Franklin Co, NC. d. 1841 in
Rutherford Co, TN. She married CAPT. RICHARD RANSOM abt. Oct 12, 1784 at
the house of her father, JOHN PORTIS/PORTHRESS/POYTHRESS in Franklin Co,
NC. Very little is known about JOHN PORTIS. No info on birth, death,
marriage, children (other than KEZZIAH), etc.

He was probably born sometime between 1730-1740 and died after 1784,
probably in Franklin Co. NC. The time frame of the 1816 Will of JOHN
POYTHRESS in your book could very possibly be a hit for this 5th ggf.
A copy of the Will would be greatly appreciated when you go to Raleigh
next Tuesday. I'm sure others in the group will also have an interest!
Many Thanks!

Bob (Robert James Ransom, Jr.)		10/02/1997 5:04:32
Re: Capt JackBarb,

Very good questions, you can tell who the real researchers here are!!!

Answers could be very interesting.

Bruce

10/02/1997 5:08:32
John PoythressCharles Neal10/2/97

Carol,

I assume you are referring to Thornton Mitchell's 1987 book, __NC Wills:
A Testator Index, 1665-1900, Vol 2, K-Z__ which I saw once and which I know
says there is an "original only" of the Will of John Poythress, which Will
was in Carteret County & was dated 1813, which Will is indeed at the NC
Archives in Raleigh.

I would love to have a copy of the Will, and of any follow-up documents
they might have filed with it, and will be glad to fully reimburse you for
your expenses in getting it for me; just let me know how much and I will
send you a check.

I have looked up Carteret County in Dollarhide's __Map Guide to the US Fed
Censuses 1790-1920__ to see where it was in 1813. It's still in the same
location: basically along the coast, about mid-state; it includes the town
of Morehead City for anyone interested in locating it on the map. I'll be
curious to see what we can learn from this Will.

Thank you so much, Carol, for your offer to get it during your trip!!

Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/02/1997 6:01:07
Re: John PoythressCarol A. MorrisonCharles Neal wrote:
>
> 10/2/97
>
> Carol,
>
> I assume you are referring to Thornton Mitchell's 1987 book, __NC Wills:
> A Testator Index, 1665-1900, Vol 2, K-Z__ which I saw once and which I know
> says there is an "original only" of the Will of John Poythress, which Will
> was in Carteret County & was dated 1813, which Will is indeed at the NC
> Archives in Raleigh.
>
>

That sounds like the book but mine is only one Vol. Maybe its a later
edition all rolled up into one. Its a great resource for NC. Published
abt 1986.

I sent the earlier email from my office and did not have the
book in front of me - hence the year was off by 3 years.

Carol		10/02/1997 6:48:38
Batte CardsAt the end of the Batte aphabetical list (
http://198.17.62.51/collections/BA.html) are five "titles":

Sources A-O
Sources P-Z
Publications P1-P75
Publications P76-P149
Publications P150-238

I had figured that "Sources" might give me some keys to the mystic runes
scattered here and there on Mr. Batte's cards. And "Sources" sure seemed to
be the likely place this would be shown.

I had figured that "Publications" might key the RESIDENT publications at LVA
where one might view the originals for other clues or at least give a
comprehensive name for Mr. Batte's source. The implication here is not
suspicion of Mr. Batte whom I have learned to view with huge respect....the
implication is that he had a code that he used on his cards and if its like
everything else he did it is logical....I just need "the code" to be able to
cite the same sources he cited.

Unfortunately, clicking on any of the above 5 brings up " 1 of 0 cards" which
just does "nothing" when clicked on to bring up a card.

Thats my problem.....and I am fully qualified to be dealing with a technical
problem of
my own and not have sense enough to recognize it so I went ahead and asked
the potentially dumb question.

Many thanks,

Maynard		10/02/1997 8:16:45
John PoythressCarol A. MorrisonI have this Book that gives the names of all Testators and the location
of Wills recorded in North Carolina up to the year 1900. It also tells
where the original (if it still exists) is located.

In this book, there is one POYTHRESS. An original Will of John
Poythress (dated I think in the 1816). It appears that no copy of the
Will was recorded in any Will book in NC (or not recorded in any
existing book).

#1. Any of you have an idea as to who this John POYTHRESS is based on
the brief description above?

#2. I'm going to Raleigh next Tuesday - want me to pick up a copy of
the Will?

Carol		10/02/1997 9:32:16
More on Capt. JackAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is the response to the questions I posed about the "Capt. Jack"
account from "Betty B. Chandler" <2899z@gte.net>. Some of you may want to
contact Betty directly, since she seems quite willing to be of assistance
to us in tracking down Capt. Jack -- submariner :-).

Best,
Al Tims

Betty wrote:

Thank you for your objectivity in view of "The First History." My gg
grandfather was the first white child (and I assume that means other
than native American or Black) to be born once the Town of Franklin was
formed within Southampton Co. He served in the Confederate forces
(documented by the United Daughters of the Confederacy) at the age of
12, making his birth 1850 or so. He was captured and detained by
Sherman's men as they marched on Durham in Granville Co., NC. He
managed to escape and "ran all the way home" to Franklin. His father
remained behind in Granville County, and I'm not sure what his purpose
was.

When I go back to Southampton, I'll run by Courtland and check court
records, if you want me to. I need to check out a couple of things for
myself as well, so no trouble. Also, we are talking about census
records post 1850, which means he should be listed individually, along
with his family, the places of his birth and those of his family
members, occupation, etc. That may give you a more "accurate" picture.

Again, thanks for your kind reception of such an outrageous account.

bbc		10/02/1997 10:55:55
Re: More on Capt. JackCharles NealBetty,

Thank you so much for the further info on your gg gfather and on the Town
of Franklin in Southampton County. It would be great if you are able to
find anything on Poythress folks in that area when you go back to
Southampton -- We would all appreciate hearing anything you may learn.

I know that back in 1810, per the Census, in Southampton Co. there was a
Mary Poythress household having 2 white males under age 10, 2 white
females ages 16-26, and 1 white female 45 or over. I think that is the
only reference I've seen to Poythress in that county. Would be great to
learn more.

Thanks again for sharing.

BPN		10/02/1997 11:04:24
"Albert R. Tims" : THOMAS POYTHRESS & JOHN POYTHRESSPoythress List,

Beatrice Poythress Baird, my mother, recently located and reviewed the
1760 John Poythress inventory referenced by Carol Morrison below. This
is what she conveyed to me by phone:

Brunswick WB3, p341
"...John Potess Estate Jr...." [which I interpret to mean "...estate of
John Poythress, Jr...."]
June 1760
witnesses Thomas Morris and Richard Blanks
no slaves named
no other persons named

Not having any original research of my own to offer at this time, let me
instead group some John Poythress citations for consideration (all
references in Virginia):

(1) 25 September 1673; patent of 900 acres in Isle of Wight to John
PORTIS and Henry West (PB6, p.466)

(2) 21 September 1674; patent of 376 acres in Isle of Wight to John
PORTIS (PB6, p. 521)

(3) 24 October 1701; patent of 350 acres in Charles City to John
POYTHRIS (PB9, p. 396)

(4) 23 October 1703; patent of 609 acres in Charles City to John
POYTHRESS (PB9, p. 571)

(5) 23 March 1715; patent of 100 acres in Isle of Wight to John POYTHRESS
(PB10, p. 280)

(6) 15 July 1717; patent of 267 acres in Surry to John POYTHRES (PB10, p.
327)

(7) 20 October 1719; sale from Brett to Bracey of part of the 900 acres
cited in (1), bounded by lands of John PORTIS, Jr. (Isle of Wight Great
Book2, p. 329) [courtesy of Lea Dowd]

(8) 5 September 1723; patent of 200 acres in Isle of Wight (later
Brunswick, later Greensville) to John POYTHRES "of Prince George" (PB11,
p. 258)

(9) 13 October 1727; patent of 275 acres in Brunswick to Captain John
POYTHRES (PB13, p. 205)

(10) 17 March 1735/6; patent of 325 acres in Brunswick (later
Greensville) to John POYTHRESS, Gentleman (PB17, p. 293)

(11) 20 September 1745; patent of 841 acres in Prince George to John
POYTHRESS, Jr. (PB22, p. 496)

(12) 25 July 1746; patent of 25 acres in Isle of Wight County to John
PORTIS (PB24, p. 336)

(13) June 1760; Brunswick inventory of the estate of John POTRESS, Jr.
(Brunswick WB3, p341)

It should noted that the above citations include all eleven John
Poythress patents in the land office card file at the Library of Virginia
website. I am exploring the possibility that one identical John
Poythress, Jr. is referenced in (7), (8), (10) and (13); and that said
hypothetical person is son of the John Poythress of (1). (Note: This is
not to suggest that others of the above citations do not reference this
hypothetical father-son pair.) (Further note: The tracts cited in (8)
and (10) are both south of Meherrin River in what was Brunswick County
and is Greensville County today, and were discovered by Carol Morrison to
have been subsequently owned by Thomas Poythress of Brunswick County.)

Your review and commentary would be welcomed. I would be particularly
grateful for contributions of other John Poythress citations from 17th
and 18th century southside Virginia.

Best regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "Albert R. Tims"
To: "Poythress Genealogy List"
Subject: THOMAS POYTHRESS & JOHN POYTHRESS
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:23:08 -0500
Message-ID: <199707290421.XAA09549@t-rex.minn.net>

Poythress List,

This might be a historic note for all of us Thomas Poythress chasers :-).

Below is a post from Carol Morrison (aka Sherlock Holmes) that will
likely
cause considerable excitement. A word of caution -- this isn't a
guarantee
of parentage :-). I will add full transcriptions for these documents to
the Poythress Web immediately.

Enjoy,
Al Tims
-----------------------------
Carol Wrote:

Maynard's Time line shows a Thomas Poythress conveying 525 acres to John
Dawson in 1773. This Deed is recorded in Deed Book 11, at page 239-241
and includes two tracts of land; i.e., one tract for 200 acres and
another tract for 325 acres, located on the South side of Meherrin River
and on the East side of Cane Branch. There is no privy examination of a
wife at the time of recording, and have I not found a subsequent privy
examination or release of dower for this conveyance -- as of yet.

But I thought you all might be interested in *possibly* where Thomas
Poythress got these two tracts of land, particularly since both tracts
were owned previously by another Poythress.

John POYTHRES of Price George County, for 20 Shillings, was granted 200
acres of New land, in Isle of Wight County, located on the S. side of
Maherin River and on East side of the Cane Branch, on 5 Sept.
1723, Patent Book 11, page 258-259. Note: Cavaliers & Pioneers shows
this as being on Cave Branch, but I've looked at the Patent and this
appears to me to be 200 acres of the 525 acres which Thomas Poythress
conveyed to John Dawson. I'll probably be able to work up a
transcription of this particular patent sometime tomorrow.

The 325 acres (balance of the 525 acres) was granted to John Poythress,
Gentl., by Letters Patent, for consideration of 35 Shillings, on 17
March 1735/36. Virginia Patent Book 17, page 293-294.

Furthermore, the Brunswick County records show an "Inventory &c" for a
John Potess recorded in the year 1760. This is how its spelled in the
Index. This Inventory (of which I haven't seen) is recorded in Will
Book 3, beginning at page 341.

--------- End forwarded message ----------		10/03/1997 1:23:58
Re: Preston/Junkin and James Junkin HarrisonBPN, here follows some more information on J. J. Harrison, quoted from
Gay Neale's history of Brunswick:

======

"...perhaps the most serious horse racers and breeders in the county were
Theophilus Feild, Edward Brodnax and James Junkin Harrison...A...[stud]
book had been conceived of by James Junkin Harrison...The book, The
American Turf Register, Sportsman's Herald and General Stud Book, was
published in 1833 and was dedicated to Harrison...

"Without a doubt, it was James Junkin Harrison who was the most immured
in horse racing of all the Brunswick County horse owners. Harrison had
purchased a farm in the early 1800's, planted a great grove of trees and
made gardens in the shape of a diamond, and had remodeled the old house.
He set about at his new residence, Diamond Grove, to breed and raise
horses.

"Harrison was a horseman from his boyhood...His fortunes were greatly
reduced by the time of his death in 1851; he had lost, some say, over a
million dollars betting on races. When Diamond Grove had to be sold to
pay his notes, his wife's father, Nicholas Edmunds, bought the entire
estate and put it in her name.

"When the Marquise de Lafayette, at the age of sixty-seven, made his
nostalgic trip to America...James J. Harrison invited him to the first
meeting of the original Jockey Club at the Eagle Hotel in Richmond. The
occasion brought out a "Who's Who" of Virginians of the day. Harrison
was one of the founders of this organization."

======

I am pleased to claim the friendship of Doug Child, current owner of
Diamond Grove and descendant of J. J. Harrison. The present Diamond
Grove, a farm of over 700 acres (only a fraction of its former domain) is
devoted to dairying under Doug's management. The old house remains in
good condition and has been occupied until just this year. As I recall,
Doug says his family began acquiring the Diamond Grove tract about 1718
and that parts of it were received by a Harrison ancestor as a part of
the disposition of Fort Christiana.

Best regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird

On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:08:01 -0400 Charles Neal
writes:
>Lyn,
>
>The clipping arrived today. I enjoyed reading it and learning more of
>that branch of the Preston family. Looks like The Washington Times
might
>be having a weekly page on the Civil War? If so, that's great.
>(Unfortunately, I cannot imagine a Los Angeles paper doing something
>that enjoyable.)
>
>Thanks for sharing it!
>
>Barbara
>BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
>		10/03/1997 11:42:00
THOMAS POYTHRESS & JOHN POYTHRESSCharles Neal10-4-97

Lyn Poythress Baird,

Please give my thanks to your mother, Beatrice Poythress Baird, for
locating and reviewing the 1760 John Poythress inventory in Brunswick WB3,
p341. Was she able to make a photocopy of it that you will be getting?
If so, I'd appreciate getting all info possible, and would be glad to pay
for a copy.

Thanks also to YOU for all your grouping of citations for consideration on
the John Poythress name. I'll have to check and see what I might
have in this wall of books re John Poythress in the 17th & 18th century in
southside VA that I can add.

Unfortunately, 6 hours of my weekend was carved out for driving north &
attending the funeral and reception afterward for the son of a dear
co-worker. So all the laundry and normal weekend catch-up chores are still
calling for attention, and they must come first.

Thanks again so much.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/04/1997 7:50:37
Poythress GravesCharles Neal10-4-97

BPW, next week when you get back from your jaunt in FL and have a chance to
go over the below info in a series of messages from Lyn Poythress Baird, it
seems to me perhaps you can help place these Poythress folks. Are they
perhaps identifiable in your family line? Also, with any connections you
may have back in NC thru your father's line, can you shed any additional
light on any possible Davis connection?

Lyn, appreciate your and your Mom's pursuit of this info. I still feel
that this could yield good helpful Poythress info. Am I recalling
correctly that there are NO dates on these 7 remaining markers?

Pamela Hurak, as the publisher of The Southside Researcher and as the
Southside cemetery sleuth, do you happen to have any further input on these
graves or these families? (FYI: Lyn's mother, mentioned above, is Beatrice
Poythress Baird, who lives somewhere in your general area, where Lyn grew
up before he moved to Texas.)

All for now.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
From: llbaird@juno.com
To: BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:49:13 -0500
Subject: llbaird: Re: Davis & Poythress

BPN, the trail grows cold. Here's an update on the Davis-Poythress
connection:

According to his daughter, in a recent conversation conveyed by my mother:
Henry P. DAVIS, born 1876 in Mecklenburg Co., Va., was the originator of
the Poythress-Davis cemetery. Henry was the son of Edward DAVIS and Elvira
WRIGHT. [This Edward may have been the same as Edwin (b. ca. 1836,
Virginia), perhaps the son or grandson of Henry DAVIS (b. ca. 1785
Virginia), household 416 in the 1850 Mecklenburg census.] She is unaware
of pre-20th century connections into North Carolina.

Known burials in the Poythress-Davis cemetery are:
1) Willie Davis, brother of Henry;
2) James David POYTHRESS and wife Lucy Cannon MOSELEY;
3) Benjamin POYTHRESS, son of James David;
4) Fletcher POYTHRESS, son of James David;
5) ???, infant child of Henry DAVIS;
6) ???, infant child of Henry DAVIS;
7) ???, infant child of Henry DAVIS.

Mother is checking on the land ownership.
Best regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From: llbaird
To: BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com
Subject: Re: Davis & Poythress
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:37:16 -0500

BPN, good thinking in your 9/6 message regarding connections between
Poythress and Davis! These are the kinds of creative ideas we must work to
make progress. Herein I will attempt to address each of your questions:

BPN Question: Lyn, do you know why the Brodnax cemetery is called
"Poythress-Davis cemetery" -- Were the 2 families consecutive owners of
property there (or near there)? Or were the 2 families kin in some way?

LPB Answer: It was I who introduced this cemetery, located in Brodnax,
Brunswick Co., Va., to the group, and who chose to call this a
"Poythress-Davis" cemetery. I must now confess that my choice is without
adequate knowledge of the history of the cemetery. This is what I know
about this cemetery:

1) Fewer than 10 graves are recognizable.
2) Most are marked only with fieldstones.
3) The remains of James David POYTHRESS and wife Lucy Cannon MOSELEY are
located there. JDP is a grandson of Lewis P.
4) The cemetery is on land once owned by Henry P. DAVIS, son-in-law of
James David POYTHRESS.
5) The cemetery contains some DAVIS remains.

BPN Question: It seems plausible to me that if that current Henderson, NC
Davis family has anyone actively working on their family history/genealogy
(or even more fortuitously, someone who has already
done so), that they might have some shreds of help for us on Poythress
folks from 'way back when. Since you have family in that area, and grew up
in that area, do you know of anyone in the Davis family that we could check
with re that train of thought?

LPB Answer: I am not familiar with the ancestry of the above-mentioned
Henry P. DAVIS and am not aware of any of his descendants that are active
in family history. I will make some inquiries.

BPN Question: Also, you mentioned that both the Brodnax Poythress-Davis
Cemetery, and the Blackridge cemetery where Thomas M. Poythress (son of
Lewis) is buried, are owned by descendants of Lewis Poythress. Could you
find out from each of those descendants whether they might have either
original, or copies of land surveys of Lewis' land?

LPB Answer: Before asking I am sure that neither of these folks are even
aware that they are descendants of Lewis. The land in Brodnax was never
owned by Lewis P. so far as I know. Even though the Blackridge descendant
is unaware of Lewis, he may have some interesting information
on land title history. I will inquire in this direction.

That's my thoughts for now. Keep the creativity flowing!
Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		10/04/1997 7:50:40
PatentsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Carol Morrison just sent us the following patent transcriptions to add to
the web page. We owe Carol a huge debt of gratitude for her contributions.

Best,
Al Tims
Had a chance to type of the following Patents in case you wanted to
include them on the Poythres Web page. I'll be glad to type up others
and will send to you when I do. References to each one is at the bottom
of the patent(s).

Carol

George &c To all &c Know Ye that for diverse good causes and
Consideratons but more especially for & in Consideraton of the sum of
twenty Shillings of good & Lawful money for our use paid to our Receiver
General of our Revenues in this our Colony & Dominion of Virginia We
have Given Granted & Confirmed and by these psents for us our selves &
Successs. Do Give Grant & Confirm unto Thomas Poythres of Prince George
County one certain tract or parcel of Land containing one hundred &
eighty acres, lying & being on the North Side of Nottoway River in the
County of Surry and bounded as followeth, to wit, beginning at a Pine on
the North side of the Woodyard Swamp a little above the fork ____ North
eighteen degs. East one hundred & thirty pole to a hiccory, then North
seventy five degrees East eighty eight pole to a black oak, then North
east by east one hundred & fifty pole to a red oak, then South South
east eighty three pole to a pine by the side of the Woodyard Swamp
aforesd. And up the various courses of the run of the said Swamp to the
beginning With all &c To have hold &c To be held &c Yielding & paying &c
Provided &c In Witness &c Witness our Trusty & Welbeloved Alexr.
Spotswood our Lt. Govern. &c at Wmsburgh under the Seal of our sd.
Colony the twenty third day of March one thousand seven hundred &
fiftenn In the second year of our Reign. A. Spotswood. [Virginia Patent
Book 10, page 265-266]

George &c To all &c Know ye that for divers good causes and
consideracons but more especially for and in consideraton of the
importation of two persons to dwell within this our Colony & Dominion of
Virginia whose names are Richard Inglesby and John Phillips We have
given granted and confirmed & by these presents for us our hiers and
Successors do give grant and confirmed unto John Poythres of Prince
George County one certain tact or parsil of Land containing one hundred
acres lying and being on the north side of Maherin river in the County
of Isle of Wight and bounded as followeth, to wit, beginning at a red
oak on the east side of the long meadow branch thence South Seventy Six
degrees East one hundred twenty two pole to a live oak in a Swamp then
south fourteen degrees west one hundred & thirty Six pole to a hiccory
Saplin, then north seventy Six degrees West one hundred twenty two pole
to a lightwood post near the long meadow branch side and north fourteen
degrees East one hundred and thirty Six pole to the beginning With all
&c To have hold &c To be held &c Yeilding & paying &c Provided &c In
Witness &c Witness our Trusty and welbeloved Alexander Spotswood our Lt.
Governor &c At Wmsburg under the Seal of our Said Colony the twenty
third day of March one thousand Seven hundred & fifteen in the Second
year of our Reign. A. Spotswood [Virginia Patent Book 10, page 280]

George &c To all &c Know ye that for divers good causes and
consideracons but more especially for and in consideracon of the
Importation of Six persons to dwell within this our Colony & Dominion of
Virginia whose names are Alexander Sutton John Pier Daniel Medhurst Amos
Allock Thomas Barden & John Hardiman We have given granted and confirmed
and by these presents for us our heirs and Successors do give grant and
confirm unto John Poythres of Prince George County one certain tract or
parcell of Land containing two hundred & Sixty Seven acres lying & being
on the South side of the main black water in the County of Surry Bounded
as followeth to wit beginning at a live oak on the South west side of
the Indian Swamp thence west South west twenty four poles to two pines
then South four degrees west one hundred Seventy eight pole to a pine
then South thirty degrees west one hundred & four poles to three maples
by the side of Bever Pond Swamp then down the various course of ye run
of ye Said Swamp South forty degrees east Seventy pole and South eighty
Seven degrees east Seventy one pole to two oak Saplins by the Side of
the Bever pond Swamp aforesaid thence north Sixty degrees East Seventy
Seven pole to a hiccory then east four pole to a gum by the Bever pond
Swamp Side aforesaid then down the various courses of the run of ye Said
Swamp North forty Six degrees east thirty Six pole and north eighty five
degrees east thirty pole to a pine thence north by east Sixty poles to a
maple by the Side of ye Indian Swamp aforesd. And up the various Courese
of ye run of ye Said Swamp to the beginning With all &c To have hold &c
To be held &c Yeilding &c paying &c provided &c In Witness &c Witness
our Trusty & welbeloved Alexander Spotswood our Lt. Gove.. & Commander
in Chief of our Said Colony & Dominion of Virginia under ye Seal of our
Sd. Colony ye fifteenth day of July one thousand Seven hundd. &
Seventeene in the third year of our Reign. A. Spotswood. [Virginia
Patent Book 10, page 327]		10/06/1997 10:39:51
JOHN POYTHRESSCarol A. MorrisonI went to the NC Archives today and retrieved a copy of the Will of john
Poythress of Carteret County - Town of Beaufort.

I scanned it in (was only one page) and set up a web page for it so that
any of you who are interested could see it right away. Have typed
transcript preceding the actual jpg file. Also, the actual jpg file is
substantially larger than what appears on the page and it takes some
time to load.

Al, if you want the picture for the POYTHRESS site, I'll try to get it
compressed more (maybe save it as a gif file).

Here's the URL if any of you want to check it out. Also, if any of you
have the program "paperport" I can send you the "Will" over the internet
fairly quickly.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~vabrunsw/poythress/jnopoy1.htm

Carol		10/07/1997 5:01:18
Susan Dortch QueryAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Just received the following query. I'm guessing at least one among us will
be able to help Mr. Stiles. Feel free to contact him directly -- but let
us know so we don't send the guy the same thing over and over again.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------------------------
Subject: Dortch
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 15:39:09 -0700
From "Richard M. Stiles"
To: Albert R Tims

Hello, I am trying to find some information on an ancestor, Susan
Dortch, she married a Green J. Thomas in Mecklenburg on Oct. 31, 1836.
This is all the information that I have. Can you help me.

Thanks,
Dick		10/07/1997 5:08:15
Re: Susan Dortch QueryCharles Neal10-7-97

Dick,

Sorry to report that I knew nothing about your Susan Dortch, who married a
Green J. Thomas in Mecklenburg on Oct. 31, 1836, until I read your query.
Someone among us is aware of a fellow (in Tennessee, I believe I recall)
who has tracked many Dortch folks. Perhaps he can assist.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/07/1997 9:22:30
Patents & John P's WillCharles Neal10-7-97

Carol,

Thanks so much for the transcriptions of the Patents for John & for Thomas.

Wow, you must be an amazingly efficient person in the Archives. I cannot
imagine having my act in gear so well as to have (all in one day) not only
visited the archives but also have scanned in the Will and transcribed it,
and have the Will posted to its own website, and an Email message sent
about all of the above by 5 pm. And you don't even live in Raleigh. I am
duly impressed.

I, for one, would appreciate it if Al would take you up on the offer of
getting the Will's picture for the Poythress site, in a hopefully more
compressed file. My system keeps stalling when I try to load big htm
files, so I only get to see the first half-or-so of many pictures.

Thank you so much for all your good work.
Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/07/1997 9:22:33
John Poythress' Will & Wm. BellCharles Neal10-8-97

>>Carol Morrison wrote: Barbara, I've compressed the jpg file of John
POYTHRESS' Will. It is now abt 1/2 the size it was and I'm not sure that it
can be compressed any further. I tried compressing it as a gif file but it
actually grew. I've also re-uploaded it. When you get a chance, swing by
the page and see if you can get it to load better (without stalling). It
still will take a few minutes to load.<<

I checked it out, and YES Carol, it loads MUCH faster now; thanks. I take
it that in the Will which you copied at the Archives, the first 4 to 5
lines of content of the Will are more faded out than the heading and than
the lower lines of the Will? (It certainly seemed that way in looking both
at the first part of the Will last night when it was a larger file, and
when I never made it all the way thru seeing it, and also tonight.)

POSSIBLE CONNECTION:
Tonight I noticed in your transcription of John Poythress' Will which was
signed Oct. 23, 1813 in the town of Beaufort, North Carolina (which town is
in Carteret County, along the coast), that the Will had been witnessed by a
Wm. Bell.

That rang a bell for me, and I pulled out the Will I had obtained from the
Mississippi Dept of Archives & History in Jackson, for Littlebury H.
Poytress of Yalobusha County, which was signed 13 Sept 1856, and which was
recorded during the August term 1857 (It is mislabelled in the original
Index as being the Will of S.H. Roytress, by the way, with both his first
initial and the first letter of his surname being incorrectly written in
the Index).

My memory was correct: Littlebury H. Poytress' daughter Frances was the
wife of a William C. Bell. Granted, that William Bell is not a unique
name, but this could help tie these two Poythress families together.

The microfilm photocopy of Littlebury H. Poytress' Will is miserable, with
approximately 1,000 black horizontal lines across each page, so the
following is not every word of the Will:

From microfilm of Will Book Volume A, 1834-1858, Yalobusha County Court
House Chancery Clerk, State of Mississippi, filmed on Jan. 26, 1972 by The
Genealogical Society, Salt Lake City, UT, at Coffeeville, Miss:
p. 307
Last Will & Testament of L. H. Poytress, Deceased

I, Littlebury H. Poytress of the county of Yallobusha, State of
Mississippi, being of sound mind do this day declare and publish the
following to be my will and testament revoking any and all [actions?]
heretofore made by me.

First, I wish all my just debts paid out of the [moneys?] that my executrix
and executor may collect from the effects of my estate.

Secondly, I give and bequeath to my wife Frances all of my estate both real
and personal to be managed and used by her during her life to sell and to
buy whatsoever she may see proper, and I further grant her all privileges
she may see proper to take with said estate. At the death of my wife
Frances I want the property not disposed of by her to descend to my
daughter Frances wife of William C. Bell to be managed by said Wm. C. Bell
for the use and benefit of his wife and her children.

And I further appoint and request the Judge of Probate to appoint my wife
Frances and William C. Bell my executrix and executor and I further request
that no security be required (By the Judge of Probate) [illeg] my executrix
and executor [having?] confidence in the judgement, integrity and honesty
of my said executrix and executor.

I have hereunto signed my name and affixed my seal this the 13th day of
September A.D. 1856 in the presence of
E. E. Crenshaw L. H. Poytress (seal)
James Waltin
John A. Garner
[Note: Garner was then the one who presented the Will to the Court in Aug.
1857, entry regarding which is on p.308]]		10/08/1997 11:48:16
Re: Susan Dortch QueryCharles NealFolks, I do not recall who might be able to help Dick Stiles re Dortch
folks.

BPW, when you get back from your trip across the country: Do you recall
the name & how to reach the Dortch fellow who I think was in Tennessee
somewhere near Chattanooga? I think he appeared before I switched to this
computer; I can't seem to locate anything about him here.

Thanks
BPN 10-8-97		10/08/1997 11:48:26
Poythress-Wall ConnectionI am trying to establish a link between the Virginia Poythress line and my
line of Walls in NC. I would appreciate any leads.

I know that my family line traces back to a John Wall who lived in Anson
County, NC. This John Wall (c. 1746-1831) came to (then) Anson County and
received a land grant in 1769. His ancestors are documented in a book
titled "The Walls of Walltown" by A. W. Thomas. He named his son John
Poythress, and there are several other instances of the name "Poythress" in
that book. His grave marker states "A Native of Virginia", and our family
lore has it that he was from Brunswick County (a part of Prince George, Surry
and Isle of WIght until 1720).

I am trying to link this line to a John Wall of Brunswick County, VA who
married Ann Poythress. This John Wall may have used the title "Colonel".
Randy Jones has documented this family and its relationship to the Francis
Poythress line in his "Charlotte's Web" pages
(http://www.charweb.org/gen/rjones/d004, for example). We have some evidence
that a group called The Colonial Dames has accepted that John Wall (c.
1746-1831) was the son of this John and Ann, but I am so far not able to
substantiate that acceptance.

I would appreciate any help you could give me.

Steve Wall
STEVEW602@AOL.COM		10/09/1997 2:03:50
Re: John Poythress' Will & Wm. BellJean SpilleMore on Littlebury Poythress--

I have found a Littlebury Poythress in the records of Northampton Co.,
NC.

North Carolina Military Papers filed at the NC State Library,
Raleigh. Ref#289 abstrated here

"Know all men by there Presents that I Littleberry Potros, Priscilla
Protros & Delia Protros of the State of North Carolina & County of
Northmapton only heirs to our Uncle John Protros Dec'd in war do
authorize my friend Daniel Cherry of the State of Tennessee & County
of
Wilson to apply to the Secretaries Office of this state and Draw from
said offering a Military Land Warrant for the Survey of our said Uncle
or aforesaid who ent(?) into the Continental line of this State in the
revoluntionary War Great Britain against American and furthmore We do
authorize our said Attorney to do every other thing touching the Said
claim in as full and ample a manner as if We had the doing of it
ourselfves. In Witness Whereof we herunto Set our hands and Seal this
12th April 1813

Witness Levi Harrell
Daniel/Darling Cherry

signed
Littleberry Poytress
Priscilla Poytress
Delily Poytress

====================================================================
Another reference to Littleberry Poythress this time married to
Frances is a Power of Attorney from Frances Poythress to her Husband,
Littleberry Poythress. This is dated 18 August 1815 and is filed in
Northampton County North Carolina Deed book 20, p.199

It is possible that this is the same Littleberry that later shows up
in Mississippi.

Cataret County is not far from Northampton County. Perhaps there is a
connection here.

Jean Poythress		10/09/1997 9:41:49
Re: JOHN POYTHRESSCarol A. MorrisonPer Lyn's suggestion

Here is a typed transcript of the Will of
John Poythress (1813) Carteret County, North Carolina:

State of No Carolina
Town of Beaufort In the name of
God Amen

I John Poythress being weak in body
but of sound mind do this day make & ordain
this my last Will & Testament in manner & form
following viz.
Imprs. My spirit I commit to the Superintend
=ance of him from whom I received life.
My Body I recommend to be decently in
=terred at the discretion of my Executrix here
in after named.
My effects, & debts, active & passive I
give to my beloved wife Polly Poythress, to
her, her heirs & assigns for ever.
Lastly I nominate & appoint by be
loved wife Polly my sole Executrix
Ratifying & confirming this my only true
Will & Testament & disannulling
all former wills by me made.
Sign'd Seal'd publish'd & ) Octr. 23rd 1813
pronounced in presence of )
Wm. Bell
Jno. Hyson John Poythress (Seal)		10/10/1997 6:20:11
CLEATONCarol A. MorrisonOh,

Forgot,

When I was at the NC Archives I also got a copy of the original Will of
William B. CLEATON if anyone is interested.

Carol

10/10/1997 6:28:56
CLEATONCharles Neal10/10/97 8:41 pm

Carol,

I am DEFINITELY INTERESTED in a copy of Cleaton's Will. Glad you thought
to get it !!

Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/10/1997 9:40:27
Susan DortchRichard M. StilesHi everyone, I just joined the list hoping to be able to locate my Susan
DORTCH.

Susan married Green J. THOMAS on Oct. 31, 1836 in Mecklenburg, VA. That is
the only information I have on her.

Appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks, Dick

Richard M. Stiles
3044 E. Peralta Way
Fresno, CA 93703-3144
(209) 441-0161
rmstiles@pacbell.net		10/11/1997 3:47:04
Some Meridian, MS Poythress folksCharles Neal10-11-97

Back during the summer, Judy Poythress Speed Scruggs noticed on a trip to
Meridian, Mississippi, just across from the location were once stood the
home of James David Poythress (1869-1949; marr. Carrie Price Shephard, a
church -- Hawkins Memorial Methodist Church. It had a cornerstone with
names on it, she thought they were names of its founders. She said she
could not make out the date on the stone, but C.H. Poythress was listed.
Judy's aunt, Ruth Poythress, confirmed for her that this was Carl Hutton
Poythress (1884-1974; marr Pearl Beasley) who was the brother of James
David Poythress.

Note: Their parents were James Speed Poythress (1829-1923) and Martha
Grice Raiford (1840-1917). Other children in the family were:
Charles William Poythress (1868-1931); married 1. Lucy White; 2. Minnie
Mitchell
"Bob" - Robert Lee Poythress (1871-1948); marr. Mary Frances Grace
Mary R. Poythress (1873 - before 1940) As far as I know, she never married.
Richard High Poythress (1874-1939) As far as I know, he never married.
John T. Poythress (1876-1948); marr. Beulah Grace Dunn
Sallie G. Poythress (1879 - before 1978); marr. Charlie M. Card.
Bryant Richardson Poythress (1881-1968); marr. Bessie Ione Robinson

I followed up by writing to Hawkins Memorial Methodist (2609 C Street;
corner of C Street at Rubush Av; Meridian, 39301) to see if they had any
published history of the church, figuring that if they did, it might fill
in lots of info about the above families.

I received a handwritten response from their minister, Rev. R. E. Bonner.
He said they have no book or pamphlet on the history of the church. He did
send me a copy of their weekly bulletin which has, on the back of it, a
brief history of the church, from which I will quote below; sadly, it does
not mention the name Poythress. (I wrote back on Sept. 30th asking if the
church might have any records of Poythress marriages, or memberships, or
funerals, saying I would be glad to send a donation check in exchange for
having someone find and photocopy such records, giving me dates & info from
the old records. No response yet.)

"History of the Church (Compiled by Miss Clara O'Mire)

In 1892, Rev. C. G, Andrews, Pastor of Central Methodist Church, began
securing subscriptions to erect a Methodist Church on South Side Meridian
[sic], later it was placed with East End, and the following building
committee was appointed: Rev. B. F. Lewis, T. C. Harmon, John A. Lewis,
Floyd McKinley, W. B. Hawkins and W. H. McKee. [Note: Carl Hutton
Poythress would have only been age 8 at this time.]

The contract for the erection of the church on the corner of Grand Avenue
and St. Charles St, was given to A. J. Wimberly, who began the erection
April 1893.

The church was organized on May 28, 1893, with ten charter members by Rev.
T. L. Mellen, Presiding Elder, and [who] preached the first sermon in the
church[. T]he charter members were: T. L. Hinton, Mrs. Frances Hinton,
Mrs. Inez Hinton (Franks), W. H. McKee, Mrs. Helen Perry, Jesse Chancellor,
Mrs. Jane Chancellor, Mrs. Sarah Easterling, T. R. Brown and Mrs. Charline
Brown. It was named South Side Methodist Church.

In 1894 this church was put with Central Church and Rev. D. Scarborough was
assistant pastor and preached at South Side.

In 1906 the new church was built under the pastorate of Rev. L. E. Alford,
at the corner of Rubush Avenue and C Street. [Note: Carl Hutton Poythress
would have been 22 then.]

In 1915, under the pastorate of Rev. A. M. Broadfoot the indebtedness was
paid by W.D. and E. B. Hawkins, and the name of the church was changed to
Hawkins Memorial in memory of their father W. B. Hawkins, the son of W. D.
Hawkins.

In 1925 under the pastorate of Rev. J. F. Campbell, a two story building
adjoining the church was purchased for $3,000 to be used by the Sunday
School.

In 1947 the church was remodeled under the pastorate of Rev. W. L. Hamrick.

In 1950, under the pastorate of Rev. A. D. Lewis, the old two story
building was torn down and work started on a new Educational Building,
which was completed and paid for in 1951. [Note to Judy: If this was the
building with the cornerstone that you saw, it would seem logical to me
that Carl Hutton Poythress may have contributed largely, or have been on a
committee responsible for this building's construction, perhaps. He would
have been 66 or 67 at this time.]

The following have served as pastors: " [there follows a list of 41 names,
including B. F. Ormond, who may be kin to one of my Ormond ancestors, and
Roy Wolfe -- Any kin to your hubby, BPW?]

All for now.
Barbara Poythress Neal		10/11/1997 10:17:52
BlooperCharles NealIn the Meridian, MS message's first paragraph, I see I left off a closing
parenthesis mark, which ends up making it look like James David Poythress
married a church. Actually, after Carrie Price Shephard's name, there
should be the closing parenthesis. Sorry.
<;-)>
BPN

10/11/1997 10:22:56
Anybody out there?I had our "adopted" French kid switch me over to Windows 95 earlier this week
and its like learning to swim all over again. However, my paranoid state is
aggravated by the fact that I'm getting no mail from the list......you folks
in a coma or do I have a
technical problem ?????

Maynard		10/13/1997 8:31:27
Anybody out there?Charles Neal10-13-97 8:30 am

Maynard,

No coma yet that I am aware of, but I had begun to wonder myself due to
the lack of messages. Glad to hear you are learning to swim in Windows 95
-- It is indeed a whole new arena.

By the way, I will be online thru Weds night this week, folks, and then
Thurs morning early will be having surgery that will keep me at the
hospital until Saturday morning. Nothing life-threatening; just supposed
to improve quality of life after the recuperation. I understand I will be
recuperating by resting a lot at home for some weeks to come. Hopefully
after the first week or two, I'll be at least able to be somewhat with you
here online.

All for now.
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/13/1997 11:37:47
Susan DortchRichard M. StilesMy e-mail provider went down for the last two days. If anyone answered
this query and did not get an answer from me, please leave message again.

Thank You,
Dick

Hi everyone, I just joined the list hoping to be able to locate my Susan
DORTCH.

Susan married Green J. THOMAS on Oct. 31, 1836 in Mecklenburg, VA. That is
the only information I have on her.

Appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks, Dick

Richard M. Stiles
3044 E. Peralta Way
Fresno, CA 93703-3144
rmstiles@pacbell.net		10/15/1997 12:43:21
10-19-97 UpdateCharles NealFolks,

I have successfully made it thru a more-difficult-than-anticipated surgery
& hospital stay. Am now home to recuperate slowly and lazily for several
weeks at least. Be patient with me if I only "audit" the course for a good
while; I'll be with you in thoughts, if not by sending you messages for a
while.

Helene, I appreciate the jokes.

All for now.
AY!
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

10/19/1997 4:49:54
10-21-97 ThanksCharles NealDear Folks,

Thanks so much for all the speedy-recovery messages, Al, Bud,
Helene, Cindy, Linda, and everyone. I am making progress, slowly but
surely.
😉
Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

10/21/1997 1:37:03
Flowerdew PageFlowerdew's page is up and its: www.flowerdew.org

It is quite comprehensive and it was for me a little difficult to manoever
about until I got the hang of it. PC gurus will find it a piece of cake.
Altogether an excellent page albeit a tad politically correct here and
there.

I am assembling the material to write our Flowerdew page with the Poythress
emphasis and the hot link.

Maynard

10/21/1997 4:10:10
Family Tree, etc.Once again, for those who may not know about it, the most widely distributed
and one of the most respected genealogical journals in the world is Scot-free
(pun intended).

"The Family Tree" is a two-section tabloid published by the Ellen Payne Odom
Genealogy Library in Moultrie, Georgia and is funded by a very large grant
from Mrs. Odom who died about 10 years ago. To the genealogy world's
complete surprise, this institution has grown to produce the world's largest
genealogical publication and one of it's largest libraries. ( One quickly
surmises that Mrs. Odom willed them a wee bit more than the routine "grant").

Almost all of the American branches of Scots clans have chosen the Odom
Library to be the repository for all of their American historical and
genealogical records....and all this is for what was (prior to the monster
grant) a rinky-dink library stuck way down in south Georgia.

To subscribe to "The Family Tree" one only needs to write: The Family Tree,
The Odom Library, P. O Box 2828, Moultrie, Georgia 31776-2828 and asks to be
put on the mailing list. Alternatively, one may visit the website:

http://www.teleport.com/binder/famtree.shtml

One may also subscribe to the printed copy of the newspaper (bimonthly) free
of charge via registering at the website or one may put the URL on favorite
places and only visit (free of charge) the major articles in each issue.
Plugging the URL into "favorite places" and internet visiting is the likely
choice for those outside of the U. S. A. (i. e. Pat & Maurice, etc) whom I
suspect might be asked for postage charges for overseas mailing...and
besides, after the first bite, Pat and Maurice (like most civilized people)
have likely had a lifetime supply of haggis and don't need to see the
advertisements anyway.

The upside of only visiting the URL is it's quick and dirty. The downside is
that one misses from the printed copy a marvelous bunch of esoteric
advertisements for stuff such as obscure Scottish beer, notices of
genealogical symposiums all over the U. S. , etc. A general downside of the
publication is that it is perhaps 50% Scottish oriented, 20% American South
oriented, and the rest of general genealogical interest. However, one with
only a general interest will find the unwanted material quite easy to scan
over....and hey, the price is right!

I am prompted to put this information on the list server once again because I
happened to get the current issue in the mail today and realized what a great
"freebie" this was for one with even a remote interest in the material
contained in this
nice publication.

Best,

Maynard

P. S.....for those of our brethren who may wonder how all that Scottish stuff
got "magneted" to some obscure library in the deep South, please be aware
that there is a respectable body of historical opinion which holds that the
War for Southern Independence was somewhat a rising of the clans. Yep, tell
'em you heard it first here folks; it was the Roundheads and Cavaliers all
over again....and in 1865, to the eternal detriment of western civilization,
the Roundheads won.		10/21/1997 4:59:35
Last WeekendGot a chance to zip down to Cartersville for one last bout of grandbaby
huggin' and kissin' before they departed to close to the place where one gets
carbon-black teeth and steps off the end of the earth at Midland-Odessa, TX.

Had a morning free and snuck off to the GDAH.....unfortunately, without my
check list and only a Lanier recorder. Like a dummy, I had not anticipated
the opportunity.

Findings (briefly) which I'll post in their entirety later this week:

1) got into the C. M. Hollingsworth card catalog at the GDAH (supposedly
somewhat analogous to the Batte catalog for Virginia). Big disappointment.
I dictated the Poythress pages...only five 3x5 index cards. Practically
nothing we didn't already know and, at the risk of sounding a tad
sophomorish, most of the cards themselves were somewhat sophomorish.

Only hint from Mr. Hollingsworth of anything new was the citing of a source
something like "Huguenots in America" for Poythresses. I found that
interesting a) because my mother always insisted that the P's were Huguenots
(without historical basis...I think there was a Huguenot scholarship at Emory
she wanted for my brother David) and b) Margeret Fletcher in Goustershire
mentioned that Newent was home to many Huguenots who brought the glass
blowing industry to Glos. I'll find the source of that citation but I think
the time is a bit late......Cardinal Richelieu didn't renege on the Edict of
Nates until 1685 which triggered the flight of Huguenots from France to
southern England and America. (and you betcha, I looked it up....my
memorybone ain't that great) Thats a bit late to be of consequence for us
with Francis P. already in Va. in 1633....and besides Pat Crewe's material
says the most of the P's were likely butchers, not glass blowers.

And BPN, I didn't have your list of names that you wanted out of
Hollingsworth but my guess is it won't be too hard to get.....the whole
magilla (40,000 cards) fits on only 3 rolls of microfilm....albeit the
skinniest microfilm I ever saw.

2) fleshed out what I needed to prepare a "page" for the site on the
significance of the records of the Georgia Land Lotteries....I'll get to it
soon as I can. Remember, we
retirees have important other stuff to do.....like going to the post office,
getting haircuts....you just wouldn't believe the stress!

3) Looked up that Joseph and Mary Poythress in Troup County, Ga. (Lagrange).
They keep popping up all the time. Joseph appears to have owned half the
county in his day. Troup County is WSW of Atlanta and contiguous with
Chambers County, Alabama. With everything that we already have on our plate,
I had rationalized Joseph and Mary into being "somebody else's" on the basis
of Troup County being a million miles away from either the east Georgia or
west Alabama Poythresses. Anyway, I got into the wills of the two of
them....we're talking 1853 and 1858. No way. They be's ours. Sons named
Francis and Hardemond....."Francis" may not have cinched it but we just can't
escape that Hardemond name....gee, I wish that Eppes family had gotten hooked
on Bob or Joe or something instead of Hardemond...but, hey, I suppose
corralling them all is what it's about.

Best,

Maynard		10/21/1997 4:59:48
Ltr from Margaret FletcherReceived a great letter from Margaret . High spots below with my comments in
square parens.

"....as you will see, I drove over to Newent couple of weeks ago on a
beautiful sunny September morning and happened onto their annual "Onion
Fayre", when the local farming fraternity traditionally sold their onion
harvest. I bought you the postcards and bits and pieces from the local
tourist information office...."

"The photos you are very welcome to". [also included were couple of neat
postcards and I am mailing all to Al to see what he can and wants to post.
It appears that what we have been calling Newent Parish is correctly St.
Mary's Parish Church in Newent...Newent being only the name of the town...I
think..set me straight would you, Pat? Also in the advertising brochures
about Newent was a Christian bookstore. Surely they will have a line drawing
of the Parish house and I will write to order same and we can perhaps
consider it for the page].

"The photograph of the farmhouse....about 1/2 mile from the centre of Newent-
is called 'POYDRESSES' - I have no idea what the connection is, but its just
a stones throw from Ploddy House- where John Poydresse lived (father of
Francis?) [ I am confident he was father of Francis but the baptism record of
Francis clearly calls the father 'John Poythres' -no doubt spelled by the
Parish priest...which was how Francis himself spelled it thereafter]- & was
sold in 1649 after his death. I would like to have taken a photo - its a
very large, old, redbrick place with huge chimneys but surrounded by tall fir
trees and difficult to see. I didn't want to intrude too much, but I will try
again in the winter - perhaps I'll have more luck then" [Al...you have to
look carefully but in one of the photos is the entrance gate which has the
sign "POYDRESSES" on it].

"Incidentally, I visited my cousin, John Poytress, at the end of August. The
occasion was his 50th birthday and we had a delightful family reunion. I
showed him your letters and told him of the research I had undertaken. I
also gave him the internet address, so he may well contact and/or browse
himself. He travels the UK widely and tells me that the first thing he does
on visiting a new area, is to look in the phone
book for Poytresses (they are quite a rare breed here now) [well, they ain't
exactly coming out of the woodwork over here] - so far he has only come
across two others and I am able to trace that line."

"One of his [John's] daughters had contacted a "family history research/coat
of arms society" (touch of the Pocahontas syndrome here) and they had come up
with "Le
Pohier/Poieter (I think) - a knight from Normandy who had arrived in Sussex
in 1197 plus a very nice coat of arms. I took it all with a pinch of salt
and a nice smile...."

[Heads up, Wall folks.....here comes one for you:]

"In a slight change of direction, whilst I was researching the enclosure in
Tirley in 1795 [period] (where the 18th and 19th century Poytresses lived), I
came across this in Hasfield Parish Church(the neighbouring parish where lots
of Poytresses are buried):

"Parish Links with America"
"Just East of the South Porch is a headstone to Richard Wall who died 1704.
Richard Wall was co-founder with Toby Leech of Cheltenham of the town of
Cheltenham, Pennsylvania, USA. He was baptised at Hasfield on March 5, 1630.
He, his wife Rebecca, their son Richard and his wife Rachel (sister of Toby
Leech) and their daughter Sarah, all residents of Hausfield, sailed for
America with Toby Leech in 1682 and founded the town of Cheltenham there.
Richard Wall's name is perpetuated in streets there and it is claimed that
at his house the first Quaker meeting in America was held".

"Looking forward to hearing from you and that the pamphlets and photos were
of interest and/or use. [boy, thats an understatement].

With best wishes,

Margaret

[Mrs. Margaret Fletcher
"Fieldfare"
West End
Northleach
Cheltenham
Glos GL54 3HF
UK..................just in case anyone wants to direct a Wall question to
her. I will answer this letter promptly and express the tons of thanks
certainly due for the material and the letter]

Margaret says she will be wired in a very short time and I will tell her we
are most certainly looking forward to having her (and her cousin John
Poytress also) on the line.

In one of the pamphlets is a short history of Newent which I have put on an
MS Word document and am sending to Al to post. Margaret said she inquired at
the Chamber and they have no copyright aspirations; and, in fact, are pleased
to get the advertisement. You all will I'm sure pick up on these but there
are a couple of very interesting lines herein: for example, "...through the
middle ages Newent's importance increased mainly due to its location on one
of the main drove routes from Wales" [well, hello there, speculators on the
origin of the name...don't mark Wales off your list just yet].

I am going to propose that there is logic and connection enough to make
"ffrancis baptised 12 July 1609" into "our" Francis as a working
hypothesis.....and even if we don't buy that as the whole cloth, there is
still no evidence suggesting to look any other place in the world OTHER THAN
Newent and Tirley and environs for our folks. Therefore, Newent (or
Newent/Tirley if preferred) is worth it's own title page under which to hang
some research. Included would be the brief historical overview I have sent
to Al, photos at Al's discretion, a line drawing of St. Mary's I will try to
order, and I will also ask the same bookstore to send me whatever they have
suitable for a history rookie to stumble about in. Others of us will no
doubt also have contributions for this category, most notably likely Pat and
Margeret when she gets on line.

Hope all this stirs somebody up....I'm about to believe Jessie James cut the
telegraph wires and is gonna hold up the 'ol 5:45 stage from Dodge City
tomorrow or the next day.

Maynard

P. S. On re-reading the brochure about Newent there is another section
marginally worth posting so I'll prepare it for Al. Its entitled "Round and
About Newent" and the thing that qualifies it is a number of place name
historical references that may someday provide a thread.

P. P. S. Al.....if we decide to put up a Newent heading I suppose we need
some brief cover words as to why its there. Whatever you decide on is fine
with me or if you want me to do it thats okay too..just say so. Thanks.		10/21/1997 9:16:32
NewentDear all,
First let me say to Barbara, so glad you are making a good recovery,
keep it up, all our best wishes from England.
Maynard, you are absolutely correct in saying that the parish church of
Newent is named St. Marys - we, too, have got photographs of it,
although I rather think Maurice had to turn the camera crosswise to get
it all in.
What a good letter from Margaret, we have photos of both Ploddy House
and "Poydresses". When in the area some years ago, we went to Ploddy
House and cheekily asked if the owners knew anything of it's history.
They didn't but were very interested in the 1648 land deed mentioning it
and in fact the lady of the house said she would try to trace some more
of it's history. I don't know whether she did so or not. They were very
kind to us and took us in and showed us all the old beams etc. which had
been the original house. A lot of alterationa and additions have been
made to it over the years and I don't really think any of the old part
is now visible from the outside but we took some photos anyway. They
told us about the farmhouse along the road called "Poydresse". We were
not so lucky here as the farmer was away and his wife knew nothing of
the history of it but she did give us permission to take photographs. It
is again altered over the years but the original timbered structure is
still there and it is a very attractive farmhouse.
As to the question of glass-blowing, I have never heard it in connection
with the Poythress family, as far as I know they were yeoman farmers
before about 1725, when they are mentioned as butchers until about 1800
when they seem to revert to farmers. Of course in those days most
probably every farmer was his own butcher as well.
I will try looking in my Gloucestershire books for glass-blowing
references and if I find anything of interest, will let you know.
Best wishes,
Pat		10/22/1997 9:19:02
10-22-97Charles NealEnjoyed very much Maynard's info from the unexpected bonus trip to GDAH.
Appreciate the info from BPW (I, too, find it confusing, by the way) and
the bolstering greetings from Elise Courtney H. Markham and others. Patti,
I find that your remarks about holding off for a month on any belly-laughs
is certainly a good point. Now if I could just avoid the occasional coughs
and sneezes that Fall seems to bring...

All for now. Just reading messages seems to be enough exertion to require
another nap.
AY!
BPN

10/22/1997 9:47:28
10-22-97 2nd verseCharles NealThanks Crewes & Cindy, for your get-well wishes.
Maynard, great to know of the upcoming info & pictures from Margaret
Fletcher.

Barbara (BPN)
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

10/22/1997 10:29:59
Re: Technical Help, Please# 1......I'm drawing a blank.

# 2......yes sir, I'd guess pounds, shillings, pence....simply because I've
seen dozens
like this. I thought this for some time but always had doubts. Then I saw
about 3 inventories in a row where the "author" would spell out x pounds, x
shillings and x
pence for the first item and then would simply give the 3 numbers separated
by commas for all the subsequent items. That still may not be it but it was
sufficient to convince me to accept it and quit worrying about it. If you
find out differently, let me in on it would you.

Best,

Maynard		10/23/1997 1:22:32
Re: Technical Help, PleaseLyn,

You can take this or leave it because it's an "intuitive guess" i.e. yours
is as good as mine. But my great aunt from the hills in Tennessee used to
"tote" up things on a list. Is it possible this is a hold-over from
Elizabethan English - To (short for tote-up) as in "total up,"

Second guess ".... to" short for "As to..." meaning in reference to
grandpa's greatcoat...

Hmmm?

Caroline Burnett Cook
5th great granddaughter of Kesiah Portis/Poythress & Capt. Richard Payne
Ransom		10/23/1997 2:35:06
Inventory of John Poythress, BrunswickPoythress List: The following is a transcription of the 1760 inventory
of John Poythress of Brunswick County, Virginia, done this month by my
mother, Beatrice Poythress Baird, from the original in the office of the
clerk in Lawrenceville:

Brunswick WB 3, p. 341

"
An Inventory and Appraisment of John Portess Jr.
To three shirts, and 3 caps-------- 1" 17" 0
To Sunday Cloaths------------------ 0" 0" 0
To 1 pr of show buckels and ring--- 1" 0" 0
To Taylor, Tools and Handkerchiefs- 0" 10" 0
To 1 Shoes & Hatt------------------ 0" 10" 0
To 1 great Coat and Jack Coat------ 0" 10" 0
To 1 Saddle and Bridle------------- 0" 13" 0
To 1 Horse------------------------- 3" 10" 0
To 1 Case Rasors------------------- 0" 1" 0
To 1 pr. gloves and bags----------- 0" 3" 9

11" 11" 9

Excepted - Thos. Morris - Richard Blanks & Jirgens Blanks.
Returned into Brunswick County Court this ____ Day of June 1760 and
ordered to be recorded.
Teste: John Robinson
"

This message is being written in fixed-pitch Courier. Try changing your
font to fixed-pitch and the columns may align for you. Mother comments
that the original document is very, very difficult to read and that she
is unable to make a photocopy. I assume this means either the office
does not permit it or the page is simply too poor to transfer. Also, she
is uncertain of the "Jr." It could be "Dr." instead, or something else.

I will also add my thanks to Maynard Poythress, Linda Sparks Starr and
Caroline Burnett Cook for the help with my technical questions about use
of the "To" and the quotation mark. My best understanding is that "To"
is an accounting term of uncertain origin, approximately translated
"Item", and that the quotation mark is just a variously chosen separation
between pounds, shillings and pence.

Al, it would be appreciated for you to add this to the web site. If you
need a copy in a different format, I can accomodate. Just let me know
the plan.

Best regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com		10/23/1997 4:41:36
10-23-97Charles NealBPW & all,

In saying that I,too, found the info confusing, I should have said I was
referring to the info that you had mentioned, which was on the card from
Elmwood Cemetery that Lyn sent you the copy of: I, too, do not understand
why they would fail to list the other burials at that site, for which there
are gravemarkers.

Look forward to seeing a copy of the wedding invitations as soon as your
Florida cousin gets a RoundTuit, which hopefully will be soon. If you want
an additional cheerleader to write to her, encouraging her to send it on,
do let me know.

I am feeling better, but I guess it is fairly obvious that my
attention-span is still very short. Getting very little reading done in
between eating meals (that are thank-goodness pressed upon me) and frequent
naps and long rest periods, Yesterday & today I made it down (about a
block from our townhouse) to our condo-association's swimming pool area,
and contentedly lounged there in the sun watching my current-nursemaid
(sister-in-law) and my good friend do water exercises. Looking forward to
midweek next week getting to the point where I can enjoy the pool and hot
tub myself.

Ay!
BPN

10/23/1997 7:26:50
Re: Dortches & Filing SuchCharles NealLyn,

Thanks so much for summarizing all of our knowledge about the Dortch
connections for Richard Stiles. As so many times before, I am amazed at
your ability to thoroughly pull all the pertinent details together.
I am curious which genealogy program you use, where you keep all these
folks complete with your source documentation annotations? And, if you
didn't pull all of these up out of your genealogy program, what
organizational method are you using for Dortch & other allied folks?

I had only in the last week been pondering again what way to keep track of
such tidbits, and would welcome a discussion.

& Thanks so much for the get-well wishes! Good luck in the new job, and we
will look forward to your insight weekly or whenever you have time to check
messages & respond.

(BPN) Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

10/23/1997 7:26:54
Inventory of John Poythress, BrunswickCharles NealLyn & others,

In __The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy__ by Val Greenwood, he
shows several example inventories from estates, which are set out in
columns of pounds, shillings, and pence.

Also, all of them begin each line with "To" and while he doesn't in this
edition address that wording (or at least my cursory looking over the
chapter, I don't SEE that he addressed it), from the OTHER inventories it
seems obvious that the wording is traditional, and seems to perhaps arise
from fact that "the estate is valued at 11 pounds, 11 shillings, and 11
pence (the total at the bottom) due to the fact that

THE VALUE TO THE ESTATE due TO 3 shirts and 3 caps is: 1 pound 17 shillings
and
THE VALUE TO THE ESTATE due TO Sunday cloaths is: [zero] and
THE VALUE TO THE ESTATE due TO 1 [pair of] shoes & hat is: 10 shillings
etc.

The ditto marks you see in the listing are used as ditto marks are
nowadays. However sometime in that particular inventory they may not have
put a "pound" mark at the top of the column, because the clerk put one on
the first one in that entire volume & he knows they all mean the same
thing.

All for now.
BPN		10/23/1997 7:26:58
Odom LibraryRighton McCallumThe answer to the Scottish tie to the Odom Library is simple. They were
the first library willing to take all of the clans' papers no matter
where their genealogists lived. We had some libraries offering to take
selected materials pertaining to their area of the country, but Odom was
the first short of Salt Lake City willing to house all of them. Most of
the clan societies support the postage and specific gifts like a
security system and new air conditioning shafts etc. It is a real
treasure, and I am so glad that you reminded everyone about it. Yes, Miz
Ellen must have left them a REAL fortune. My understanding is that they
are using interest only, which means that she must have endowed a
whopping sum. By the way, it IS worth a visit. RMc

10/23/1997 9:08:33
Re: Susan DortchHello, Dick. My name is Lyn Baird and I am a third-great-grandson of
Lewis POYTHRESS of Mecklenburg Co., Va. We Poythress researchers have a
little shared knowledge about the Dortch family and about
Dortch/Poythress connections, my summary of which follows:

1) The 1802 marriage of Lewis POYTHRESS and Rebecca B. TAYLOR was
witnessed by John DORTCH.

2) Census records of 1820 and 1830 (Mecklenburg, VA) indicate two girls
in the Lewis POYTHRESS household, the younger born ca. 1815-20. This
younger girl is absent from the household in the 1840 census.

3) William A. DORTCH married Sarah G. POYTHRESS (Warren Co., NC, 1837).

4) David POYTHRESS, candidate son of Lewis POYTHRESS, married first Mary
Speed DORTCH (Mecklenburg Co., VA, 17 December 1827) then Sally DORTCH
(Warren Co., NC, 15 March 1848).

5) A DORTCH household in the 1850 Southampton Co., VA, census contains
William A. (32), Sally (35), Martha (12), Jasper (7), Alvin (5), Tom (3).

6) William A. DORTCH married Elizabeth A. MISE (Warren Co., NC, 1854),
George W. KING, bondsman.

7) There is a KING-MISE-TANNER family cemetery about a mile or so north
of the POYTHRESS family cemetery on Blackridge Road, Mecklenburg Co., VA.

8) Alvin DORTCH married Tennesse Jordan GLOVER (Mecklenburg Co., VA,
1866) and may have listed parents as William and Sarah.

Thanks to BPW (Beetle72@aol.com) for items (3) and (4). Thanks to John
P. (JSCC1@aol.com) for items (3), (5), (6) and (8).

As you can see, we appear to be unaware corporately of your Susan DORTCH.
Regarding your Green THOMAS, we have Thomas M. POYTHRESS marrying Lucy
THOMAS (b. ca. 1827), daughter of Bennett THOMAS and granddaughter of
David THOMAS, all of Mecklenburg Co. Thomas M. POYTHRESS is my second
great-grandfather and the son of Lewis POYTHRESS. I do not find Green
THOMAS among the brothers of Bennett, nor elsewhere in my research.

ANY INFORMATION you would share on DORTCH or THOMAS families in
MECKLENBURG or neighboring counties in Virginia and NC would be
appreciated.

Best regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 14:47:04 -0700 "Richard M. Stiles"
writes:
>Hi everyone, I just joined the list hoping to be able to locate my
>Susan
>DORTCH.
>
>Susan married Green J. THOMAS on Oct. 31, 1836 in Mecklenburg, VA.
>That is
>the only information I have on her.
>
>Appreciate any help I can get.
>
>Thanks, Dick
>
>
>Richard M. Stiles
>3044 E. Peralta Way
>Fresno, CA 93703-3144
>(209) 441-0161
>rmstiles@pacbell.net
>
>		10/23/1997 9:47:24
Technical Help, PleaseI have a mid-eighteenth century Virginia estate inventory I am attempting
to decifer. Here are two technical problems:

1) Each line item leads with what appears to be "To", as in "To 1 pr.
gloves and bags" and "To 1 great Coat and Jack Coat". Any ideas on what
this means? If not "To", please help correct the spelling.

2) Each line item appears to be valuated in the form 0" 0" 0. Would this
be pounds, shillings, pense? What is the \"/ symbol, or what would be
the correct symbols?

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,
Lyn Poythress Baird		10/23/1997 10:34:29
Poythress - RansomAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Caroline Burnett Cook asked me to forward the following to the list.

Best,
Al Tims
-----------
On the subject of my ancestors Kesiah Portis/Porthress/Poythress (Porter?)
and Capt. Richard Payne Ransom, there seems to be some confusion with
ANOTHER
Richard Ransom, possibly same family who emigrated to Kentucky. I'd like to
clear this up but I have deleted Jean Spille's msg that gave further
details.
Wrote to her again but have not heard. She MAY have discovered the link
between the Ky. Ransoms and the Tn Ransoms, which would be quite a find.
Could you include this paragraph in the Poythress list? The confusion
between
the two Richards could be that their birth dates are close, they were both
Virginians and they both emigrated to North Carolina before going on....one
to Ky and one to TN. but I THINK someone may have assumed they were the
same
man. And that could not be so...other evidence. I'd like to find out if
they
were cousins. WITHOUT assuming on account of coincidence. (If someone else
has this line, there is NO ONE in Capt Richard Payne Ransom's line who was
named MAHALA . If anyone has more on the origin of the KENTUCKY Ransoms,
please let me know. I have the Tennessee group.

Good speed and good accuracy (the best one genealogist can wish another),

Caroline Burnett Cook

10/23/1997 12:58:13
Re: Dortches & Filing SuchStarrHi Barb and all POYTHRESS researchers,
Barbara asked about genealogy programs -- although I'm not a user and
have no immediate plans to change, I've heard great things about the "The
Master Genealogist" program from those using it. I understand it raises
questions like "Do you really want to say a 65 year old woman had this
child?" and "Did this man really live to be 110?" ... so you can go back
and check your typing or your documentation -- whichever applies. It also
asks for the documentation as you go ... which sounds like a lot of running
back and forth between filing cabinet and computer to me ... but in the long
run, and especially with papers which haven't made it to the filing cabinet
...
Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		10/24/1997 1:47:07
Re: Dortches & Filing SuchMarion & Helene PockrusTry Family Origins.6.0. I have used this for years and it has a do do list
for each individual so if you come across a question you can list it then
and then print it oujt for whichever facility you specify to find your
answer. I also love the Problem list. I can set the parameters and take a
gedcom from someone or my own and put it through the parameters so that I
don't add problems to my material and can check my own and keep it up to
par. Not expensive. A windows based $29 programs from Parsons. The
fellow who wrote it is open to suggestions and I know him, see him monthly
at the University. Completely compatible with gedcom s with all programs.
Uses the specifications of PAF which is used as standard of the
genealogical community. Try it for free from the Parson's board. A
limited edition. Uses good source documentations and notes in each field.
Try it you'll like it!
Helene
----------
> From: Starr
> To: Charles Neal ;
INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Dortches & Filing Such
> Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 1:47 PM
>
> Hi Barb and all POYTHRESS researchers,
> Barbara asked about genealogy programs -- although I'm not a user
and
> have no immediate plans to change, I've heard great things about the "The

> Master Genealogist" program from those using it. I understand it raises
> questions like "Do you really want to say a 65 year old woman had this
> child?" and "Did this man really live to be 110?" ... so you can go back
> and check your typing or your documentation -- whichever applies. It
also
> asks for the documentation as you go ... which sounds like a lot of
running
> back and forth between filing cabinet and computer to me ... but in the
long
> run, and especially with papers which haven't made it to the filing
cabinet
> ...
> Linda
>
>
>
> Linda Sparks Starr
> starr81@ix.netcom.com
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		10/24/1997 3:42:36
New British ResourceCharles NealDear Folks,

While catching up on reading this week, I saw in the __Federation of
Genealogical Societies' FGS Forum__, vol. 9, #3 Fall '97 issue, a CD-ROM
review of a new resource. I wondered if any of you have yet had access to
see whether this would be worth my ordering for "Poythress" (et al
spellings) research use. If you have any insight to offer, please let me
know.

The resource is __Biography Database: 1680-1830, vol. 1__ published by
Romulus Press and distributed by Avero Publications Ltd., 20 Great North
Rd, Newcastle Upon Tyne NE2 4PS, England. This first disc (of 5 planned)
has over 100 various directories (trade, local, & national) and
subscription lists for MANY towns, including 52 for London, 13 for
Birmingham [England, I presume, rather than my hometown in Alabama], 8
Newcastle, 3 Sheffield, plus "other UK towns" and some for Boston,
Massachusetts.

The reviewer (Paul Milner of Park Ridge, Illinois) highly recommends it
"for anyone searching for people in the trades [like us] or upper classes
[probably NOT us] in England prior to 1830." The goal of the project "is
to include all pre-1830 directories from Britain and America." The search
engine included allows one to search on any category, such as "name;
gender; title; institutional name; job; type of job; office; address; date;
source type; source author; source title; or source imprint." The reviewer
did a search, for example, of all silversmiths living on a particular
street in London in 1779, and found 3 who were all listed in [one source]
__The London Directory for the Year 1779 - Containing An Alphabetical List
of Names and Places of Abode of the Merchants and Principal Traders....__

The reviewer advises that the CD operates under Windows 3.1 or Windows 95
and requires 5 MB of free hard disc space. There are 3 widely varying
prices for different editions:
for personal research only, $125
for Family History & Genealogical Society, $320 and
Institutional Edition $2,250.
He advised that all editions require that a license agreement be signed,
and that part of the individual agreement is that one won't sell or donate
the CD to a society or institution.

Look forward to hearing if anyone has seen this during their visits to any
Societies or institutions. It was the first I had heard of it.

BPN
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/24/1997 5:34:20
Re Filing & SuchCharles NealGroup,

I guess I was not specific enough. I am NOT in search for another
genealogy program. What I am attempting to ask Lyn (& others, if you are
doing it successfully, too) is:

Do you actually USE your genealogy program (or alternatively, do you USE
some other system) to keep teeny bits of info on people who are not fairly
fully identified for you -- like people about whom ALL you know is ONE
tidbit of info, like Jane Doe married in 1776 to some Poythress in whom you
are interested, and like Joe Doe sold land on May 31, 1832 to someone else
in whom you are interested?

And if you are using some other system (whether computerized or not) what
are you using?

Corollary question: If, Lyn, you are using your genealogy program to keep
track of all the Dortches you listed in your summary (& for other BRIEFLY
similarly- associated-with-Poythress-line people): What sort of study of
info do you do re the particular Poythress person (Joshua, or Elizabeth,
or whoever) who is associated with some of these associated-with-persons,
in order to decide that tidbits c, e, f, g, & h all should be Elizabeth 1,
whereas tidbits a, b, & d probably should be assigned to Elizabeth 2?
i.e. I recall the wonderful summary chart you did, showing your
thought-process re certain Poythress folks being of the same family as
other Poythress folks. Do you do all that sort of analysis using any
computer program, or shuffling papers & applying grey cells and then just
recording the results of all the analysis on a spreadsheet (or a database,
or a genealogy) program ?

All for now.
BPN		10/24/1997 6:20:02
Re: Odom LibraryVKRatliffHey, RMc, thanks for the additional information. I always knew Ga. had a ton
of Scots (my mother's folks among 'em) but I never thought they had enough to
"magnet" that big an operation.

And I will pop over to Moultrie next time I'm going down I-75 to Fla. I used
to peddle boxes in that area about a million years ago. And Moultrie is a
neat little town.

Thanks,

Maynard		10/24/1997 11:25:18
Re: Odom LibraryKen PooleHi all, I come from Montgomery County in NC, which is located near the
heart of the largest Highlander settlement in the US. I went down to check
out the Odom Library, and they have a growing operation. While I would like
to have seen one in Montgomery, Scotland, Richmond or anywhere nearby, they
were the "first with the most".
Ken

At 05:25 PM 10/24/97 EDT, VKRatliff wrote:
>Hey, RMc, thanks for the additional information. I always knew Ga. had a ton
>of Scots (my mother's folks among 'em) but I never thought they had enough to
>"magnet" that big an operation.
>
>And I will pop over to Moultrie next time I'm going down I-75 to Fla. I used
>to peddle boxes in that area about a million years ago. And Moultrie is a
>neat little town.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Maynard
>
>		10/25/1997 6:30:01
Re: Re Filing & Such,Ken PooleHi, I find that odds and ends can be added via a fake child, ie, son
named: Note, Surname. Also name the parent of the last
person back in the lineage sting: FAMILY, Surname, which
makes finding your earliest ancestor very fast.

And/or: make a record; Family, Surname, with childern
named Note, Surname. Neat and fast. Make this the second
database for record keeping. The first can be all neated up for printing,
anytime. Ken

At 08:20 PM 10/24/97 -0400, Charles Neal wrote:

>Group,

>

>I guess I was not specific enough. I am NOT in search for another

>genealogy program. What I am attempting to ask Lyn (& others, if you
are

>doing it successfully, too) is:

>

>Do you actually USE your genealogy program (or alternatively, do you
USE

>some other system) to keep teeny bits of info on people who are not
fairly

>fully identified for you -- like people about whom ALL you know is ONE

>tidbit of info, like Jane Doe married in 1776 to some Poythress in whom
you

>are interested, and like Joe Doe sold land on May 31, 1832 to someone
else

>in whom you are interested?

>

>And if you are using some other system (whether computerized or not)
what

>are you using?

>

>Corollary question: If, Lyn, you are using your genealogy program to
keep

>track of all the Dortches you listed in your summary (& for other
BRIEFLY

>similarly- associated-with-Poythress-line people): What sort of study
of

>info do you do re the particular Poythress person (Joshua, or Elizabeth,

>or whoever) who is associated with some of these
associated-with-persons,

>in order to decide that tidbits c, e, f, g, & h all should be Elizabeth
1,

>whereas tidbits a, b, & d probably should be assigned to Elizabeth 2?

> i.e. I recall the wonderful summary chart you did, showing
your

>thought-process re certain Poythress folks being of the same family as

>other Poythress folks. Do you do all that sort of analysis using any

>computer program, or shuffling papers & applying grey cells and then
just

>recording the results of all the analysis on a spreadsheet (or a
database,

>or a genealogy) program ?

>

>All for now.

>BPN

>

>		10/25/1997 7:18:00
Ellen Payne Odom LibraryMany of you have had trouble making this connection. I'll repeat the URL
which hasn't seemed to give my 'puter any trouble. I just made the
connection a few minutes ago.

http://www.teleport.com/~binder/famtree.shtml

If it still doesn't work for you suggest you put Ellen Payne Odom Library in
just about any search engine and it should pop up on first page as the place
is well known.

Another alternative: write the P. O. Box # and ask to be put on mailing list.

Maynard

10/26/1997 5:30:23
Blandford Photos Sarah Eppes Poythress & Col. Wm. PoythressCharles Neal26 Oct 1997

Two months ago, Al Tims, our List-meister, posted to a site
(http://www1.minn.net/~atims/flower.html) other than our main Poythress
site (http://www1.minn.net/~atims/ ), some photos that Judy Poythress Speed
Scruggs took at Flowerdew Hundred and at Blandford Cemetery in Petersburg,
VA, during her summer trip. As he noted then,

"I still need to add captions and compress the image files to a lower
resolution before I add them to the Web page...Please note that each image
is 100K right now. This means it will take a couple of minutes for the
page to load. Be patient and you'll be rewarded!"

I wrote Al then, to let him know that I had just noticed a discrepancy in
the info I had at hand regarding the information on the gravemarker of
Sarah. He has been waiting all this time for the discrepancy to be
resolved to my satisfaction, and now I can happily report that it has been.
Transcriptions for both gravemarkers are below.

While the WPA (Works Progress Administration) Historical Inventory for
Blandford Cemetery (prepared in 1936 & 1937) shows Sarah died in October
1730 at age 48 (making her born in about 1682 and thus a good bit older
than her husband, which is somewhat unusual), AND while my eyes told me the
same thing when I had looked at her marker in November of 1994, AND while
Judy read it that way too this summer, those misreadings all apparently
arise from the facts that (a) there is only a faint horizontal crossbar at
the TOP of the third digit in the year of Sarah's death, and (b) that the
stonecarver SLANTED (in the direction of a "back-slash" on our keyboards)
the vertical portion of that third digit in the year of Sarah's death. We
are all used to reading that digit as a "3" when that vertical portion is
slanted that way.

However, that third digit (I am now convinced by the below extra info)
should be read as an oddly-formed "5" making her death date in October 1750
at age 48 (making her born about 1702, and thus younger than her husband,
which is more common).

I had noticed her death date listed as "Oct. 1750, aged 48" on p. 166 in
__Ancestors and Descendants of Francis Epes I of Virginia (Epes - Eppes -
Epps), Volume One__, which is a book published in 1992 by The Society of
the Descendants of Francis Epes I of Virginia, which was edited by the
venerable John Frederick Dorman, who is a Certified Genealogist and a
Fellow of the American Society of Genealogists and a Fellow of the National
Genealogical Society, and who is this year publishing the 41st volume of
his excellent quarterly, __The Virginia Genealogist__.

When Al wrote us the above message, I had just called my 77-yr old cousin
Ben Poythress in Petersburg and asked him to go back out to Blandford and
actually feel the stone, to see if it seemed to be 1730 or 1750. His
health interfered with this mission for a long time, but he reported to me
quite recently "1750."

In the meantime, I had written to John Frederick Dorman, C.S., F.A.S.G.,
(and I have sent him printed-off copies of your photos, Judy, which he is
filing in the appropriate Epes family file to become part of the Society's
archives). I asked him if he would allow, Al, for you to quote and
attribute to him by name & with his titles the following from his 2
October 1997 letter to me, and he has given permission [To clarify what he
is referring to, from the book, in his comment about the guardianship, I
have added info in square brackets]:

"...the year was read as 1750 by C. G. Chamberlayne in 1896 (per __William
and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, 1st ser., v. 5, p. 230; v.
6, p. 22). This was forty years before the W. P. A. reading and therefore
may well be more accurate. To make Sarah die in 1730, aged 48, would put
her birth about 1682, which is not impossible if she were the eldest child
of her parents, but it would make her about fifteen years older than her
husband; nor would she be choosing a guardian in 1720/1 were that the case
[Note: the above-listed book's footnote on p. 166 shows that her choice of
guardian appeared in the Henrico County Minute Book of 1719-1724, p. 58].
I think Chamberlayne's reading of 1750 has to be correct."

Most persuasive. And it surely shows his thoroughness.

So, as promised, the two gravemarkers now appear to read as follows. As
you'll see by looking at Judy's photos, Sarah's stone is carved in all
capital letters; William's is not. On both stones, each of the following
lines is centered. The portion of Sarah's stone in brackets here is a
damaged portion of the stone (from a cannonball, I can't help but wonder?),
and is not now readable:

"HERE LYES THE CORPSE
OF SARAH POYTHRESS
DAUGHTER OF COLLONEL
FRANCIS EPPES AND WIFE
TO COLLONEL WILLIAM
POYTHRESS WHO DIED
TH[E] [ day ] OCTOBER 1750
AGED 48 YEARS"

"Here lies the corpse
of
Col. WILLIAM POYTHRESS
Son of
Mr. JOHN POYTHRESS
Who died
the 18 Jan 1763
Aged 68 years"

By the way, Mr. Dorman also wished good luck with our Poythress studies,
noting that "There is a lot which intensive digging in the records can
still uncover." Also, in case any of you are pondering trying to get him
involved in our digging, he gently but clearly made it clear that he does
NOT wish to engage in correspondence, via e-mail or otherwise, due to lack
of time: he pursues many projects and is currently working on 3 books as
well as his Quarterly, all of which will benefit many more researchers than
correspondence would.

I hope, Al, that your occupation's workload will ease up enough in some
month soon for you to catch up such postings to the website. We all
understand how at time "Work interferes with genealogy, darn it."
In the meantime, here is the info for us via the List.

All for now.
Barbara Poythress Neal (BPN)
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/26/1997 8:43:38
Re: Blandford Photos Sarah Eppes Poythress & Col. Wm. PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Barbara Neal -- thanks for the excellent work on the marker issues. I will
add the annotations and connect these photos to the Poythress web site.

Best,

Al Tims

10/26/1997 9:57:50
Re: Susan Dortch QueryCharles Neal10-27-97

Dick,

I finally ran across the name & e-mail address of the Dortch researcher who
has so much Dortch family info, and hopefully could help you with your
Susan Dortch query: He is Bill Dortch, and (MTTS67A@prodigy.net) was his
address as of approximately Sept. 1, 1997.

Hope he can help you.
BPN
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		10/27/1997 7:19:49
Web Sites in NC and SCThese are web sites listed in the current November issue of the Orange County
CA Genealogy Newsletter:

Search the North Carolina Archives:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nc/ncfiles.htm#NC
Allows for searches of most counties in NC (not all are online yet).
Search by county or NC Archives index. A county search may include census
records, land records, cemeteries, wills, tax lists,etc. Searching by the
archives index has miscellaneous archive files such as marriages, ships,
deaths, military, etc.

Search the South Carolina Archives
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/sc/scfiles.htm#SC
Same as above but information on South Carolina.

Roots & Branches - Genealogy for the Carolinas
http://www.qni.com/~rayfield/
Huge alpha name index with family group sheets/pedigrees, church marriage
records, journals, etc.

North Carolina State Archives-Genealogy Research
http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/archives/arch/archhp.htm
Information on available data at the State Library and Archives.
Search in genealogy research to see what information is available, then
search under information by mail and staff search limitations to order the
documents you want.

Best, Barbara (BPW)

10/28/1997 10:38:32
Burke Co., GALea L. Dowd1850 Census House #15
John C. Poythress 52 M Planter GA Real est. worth $30,000
George A. Mandell 22 M Agent w/RR FLA
Mary E. 22 F FLA
John P. 4 M FLA
Ann E. 2 F FLA

1850 Slave Schedule
Est. George Poythress
36 slaves with ages and sex given.
2 slaves listed in 1850 Mortality Schedule

24 Aug 1850
Estate of George Poythress:
800A improved land
200A unimproved land
$6,000 value of farm
6 horses
7 asses/mules
18 milk cows
2 other cattle
19 sheep
28 swine

Lea		10/28/1997 11:31:11
Burke Co., GACharles Neal10-29-97

Lea,

Thanks so much for the info from the 1850 Census and 1850 Slave Schedule
for Burke Co. The Slave Schedules are harder to locate at many research
locations, and frequently overlooked even when they are available. Thank
you!

BPN		10/29/1997 11:24:56
New SubscriberAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Just received the following post from Judy Douglas. I've added Judy to our
mailing list. I don't know if she really means Francis or Frances. Either
way, this is the first time I've seen the Gill surname arise. Certainly
sounds interesting.

Best,

Al Tims

From: jdouglas@esc18.tenet.edu

Hi,
I have a gggggg grandmother named Francis Poythress. I was just told
that I could contact you to see about signing on to a Poythress
Genealogy Group. I don't know anything about her except she married a
William Gill who was born abt 1718 in Henrico Co, VA, died abt 1781 in
Meckburg Co, VA. She had a son named Joseph b. 1735 in Granville Co,
NC. None of this is verified, yet.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
Judy Douglas		10/29/1997 12:46:03
New Subscriber HelloPoythress, KennyHello All,
I have been quietly *listening* to all the postings for a couple of
weeks now. I do enjoy reading everyone's questions, answers and
comments. This is a very interesting obsessi........ER....Hobby. You
guys keep up the good work! If I can help, please ask.

By the way, My link to this page is as follows:
(Thanks to BPW for the info)

My Name is Kenneth Milton Poythress Jr. (Engineer)
I am the son of Kenneth Milton Poythress Sr. (PaperMill
Worker)
Grandson of John Alexander Poythress Jr. (Real Estate Sales)
great-grandson of John Alexander Poythress Sr. (?????)
GG-Grandson of Charles David Poythress (?????)
GGG-Grandson of David E. Poythress (?????)
GGGG-Grandson of Lewis Y. Poythress Sr. (?????)

I think this is as far as we know.
Does anyone know what John, Charles, David, or Lewis did for a living?

KMP

10/30/1997 1:53:42
Poythresses in Troup Co., Ga.I had mentioned earlier the family of Joseph Poythress (1788-1853) and wife
Mary
(1798-1855) with the speculation that given the location of Troup County
(west Ga., on the Alabama line) it may be that this family came to Troup
County independent of
the Georgia Poythresses and perhaps even the Virginia Poythresses.

Transcribing the wills of Joseph and Mary (below) makes it highly likely they
are
"ours".....a Francis and a Hardaman in the same family is difficult to
escape.

The 1850 census entry following the two wills offers the clarification for
what seems at first glance to almost be two different families: Francis A.
was "Frank Andrew" to his father and "Francis A." to his mother. This census
and the 1860 census of Troup County reveal other Poythresses present in the
county.

Maynard

>
GDAH 10/17/97

Drawer 156/ Roll 4

Will book �B�, Troup County, page 63, Ga. Wills 1733-1860

The last will of Joseph Poythress, dced. 1853

State of Georgia
County of Troup

In the name of God Amen. I, Joseph Poythress of said county and state being
of sound mind and disposing mind and memory but calling to mind that it is
appointed for all men once to die, do make, publish and declare my last will
and testament in words following, to wit: Item first, for my beloved wife
Mary I hereby confirm the land and negroes heretofore given to her by deed
and agreement, in addition thereto I give to my said wife the house and lot
on which we now live in the town of LaGrange and all of the household &
kitchen and furniture of every description and also the negro boy Sindy, and
also the horses and carriage, and James, Monk, Peter and Jared, Childe,
William and Rachel and her two children, and Walt. Item second, I give to my
son Frank Andrew the sixty shares I own in the capital stock of the Atlanta &
LaGrange Rail Road Company. Item third, the balance of my estate of every
description I make equally divided between my children share and share alike.
In this decision to my daughter Mary Ann E. Ware, wife of Daniel Ware that
portion of my property falling to my daughter Sarah Jane is to be kept by my
Wife Mary in trust for the sole and separate use of said Sarah Jane and that
previous grant of property falling to my son William is to be received and
managed by his brother, Russell K. Poythress in trust for William. Item the
fourth, appoint my son Russell K. Poythress and my Wife Mary K. Poythress
executor and excutrix of this last will and testament, testimony of all of
which I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal
the 21st day of March 1853.
Signed: Joseph Poythress {s}

Last will of Mary Poythress (wife of Joseph above) GDAH 156/4, page 90
dated

1855

State of Georgia
Troup County
In the name of God I Mary Poythress of said state and county knowing that it
is appointed for all mankind to die I being of sound mind and disposing
memory do make and declare this my last will and testament, hereby revoking
all wills heretofore by me made. Item one I will my soul to God who gave it
to me and my body to its Mother Earth to be by my executor decently buried
and a suitable tombstone placed over my grave and that of my son John
Hardaman. Item second, it is my will and desire that my sons William B. and
Francis A. Poythress have my house and lot where I now live in the town of
LaGrange together with all the furniture, household and kitchen, for and
during their natural lives and should either of said sons die then said house
and lot together with all the furniture to remain with the survivor to
dispose of the same to whom he may think proper by will. Item three, it is
my will and desire that my son Francis A. shall have all of my real estate
and that my son William B. shall keep his negroes on the same and have the
use thereof or a sufficiency of same to work his negroes on. Item the
fourth, it is my will and desire that my said son Francis A. have all of my
negroes together with their increase also a girl Susy claimed by Daniel Ware
which I had loaned to him heretofore she is my property and it is my will
that my said son Francis A. shall also have her. It is further my will
should my son Russell K. Poythress or my daughter Sarah Jane Poythress have
or meet with any misfortune and become needy it is my will that my said son
Francis A. should make a livable provision for them out of what I have herein
given to him. Item fifth, it is my will that my said son Francis A.
Poythress have all of my mules, horses, carriage buggy and all my stock on
the plantation of every kind whatsoever the same may consist also all my cash
on hand as well as my notes, accounts, and all evidences of debt of whatever
the same may consist. Item sixth, it is my will and desire that my said son
Francis A. Poythress shall have any growing crop of corn, cotton and
everything else also that he shall have all the residence of my estate be the
same of whatever character it may consist. In testimony whereof I have
hereunto set my hand and seal and declared this to be my last will and
testament in the presence of.....having forgotten to name my executors to
carry into executere this will it is my will and desire that my two friends
Samuel Eustnight and ____ Long be hereby nominated to be my executors to
execute this my last will and testament. It is further my will and desire
that the property herein before given to the said son Francis A. Poythress be
held by him for and during his natural life not to be subject in any manner
whatever to be taken from him for the payment of debts.
Signed: Mary Poythress
{s}

Some clarification provided by the entry in the 1850 Troup County census for
this family:

Poythress, Joseph 62 (planter)
Mary 52
William B. 30 ("occupation: none")
Russell K. 25
Sarah E. 22
Francis A. 15 (student)		10/30/1997 10:23:55
New SubscriberAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Just added the following person to our list (see below). I see from our
subscriber list that we've picked up quite a few new folks. I would like
to invite all the new subscribers to post an introductory note.

I promise that I'll get back to updating the web page this weekend :-).

Best,

Al Tims

Poythress Web Page:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
------------
> Date: Wednesday, October 29, 1997 11:05 PM
From: Jon Yagoda
>
> I would like to Subscribe to your Regular Mailing list. The name
> Poythress is part of my genealogy and I am in the process of researching
> information. Thank you! My e-mail address is QUILLA@worldnet.att.net		10/30/1997 12:09:54
Re: Prince George, MiscKen PooleHi all, found this in Prince George, Misc. Likely you have it, but may
help someone. Not my family. Ken

Times New
RomanAccession # 22483 Division of slaves of William
Povthress. decd By decree of Prince George Co. Court — July 1775, we have
divided the slaves William Poythress died possessed of, between the
plaintiffs John Gordon & Lucy his wife, Ann Isham Poythress, and Mary
Poythress and the defendant Benjamin Poythress, and allotted to each of
the legatees their share. the value of those alloted to John and Lucy
Gordon was unequal to the value of those given to the others, and
Benjamin is to pay the other legatees: To Ann Isham Poytnress, £3/13/4;
to Mary Poythress, £11/3/4; to Benjamin Poythress, £1/13/4; to Benjamin
Poythress as heir of William Poythress, Jr., £8/13/4; to Benjamin
Poythress as heir of Sally Poythress, £1/13/4

Times New
RomanAll names of slaves are listed, but no last names,
except for Andrew Miller, Jack Vaughan, Lucy Cook and Frank Cook.
Recorded 1 Feb. 1777

10/31/1997 9:43:33
Peebles/Poythress Charles City Co., VALea L. DowdCharles City Co., VA Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 225 5 Aug 1689
Case of John Poythress as marrying the daughter of Elizabeth Peebles, agst
Tho. Busby, let fall in court and avers that land claimed by him is in plat
drawn by Mr. James Minge called Bonnicord Plat.

Lea		11/02/1997 7:36:53
Peebles/Poythress Charles City Co., VACharles NealLea,

Thanks for this one - It is a new reference that I had not seen before!

Thanks also for your good wishes. I'm getting better all the time, but
still trying to take it easy since I get so exhausted just being on my feet
for a bit.

BPN

11/02/1997 8:21:18
Hollingsworth CardsCharles NealMaynard,

Thanks so much for the update on the cards. Good news!

BPN

11/02/1997 8:21:23
Hollingsworth CardsTo all.....and BPN had a special interest in this.....

Emminent Georgia genealogist Hollingsworth prepared over 45,000 reference
cards in his career. They cover the southeast with primary emphasis on
Georgia as thats where his customers are. The complete notes are on
microfilm at the GDAH. They are in the public domain.

I have done an intro and a resume of the Poythress listings, perhaps a dozen
or more were there, and Al will be posting them up soon.

The purpose of this note is to head off unrealistic expectations.
Hollingsworth's notes have a different "flavor" than those of Bolling Batte.
Batte was largely capturing and abstracting real "information" on his 8x5
cards, short and cryptic though some of them may be. By contrast,
Hollingsworth's 5x3 notes are really one liners designed as something of a
"finding guide". Hollingsworth notes seem to have been made as Hollingsworth
was looking at "the record" and was only making a card to remind himself
where the record was if he ever needed it again.

For example, a Batte card will say: Doe, Jane and John...were married 3 Sep
1804, Prince George County, children were so and so. See marriage book # so
and so for Prince George County.

In the same instance, a Hollingsworth card would read: Doe, John...see
marriage records PG County 1804".

Was I a little bit disappointed? Sure. But on thinking it through, and
considering Hollingsworth's purpose, his notes can function as a legit
"finding guide" for us too.

We already know the details on many of the Poythress entries, the remaining
entries are worth chasing. I'm wondering if we shouldn't use the
Hollingsworth page as a "working" page and post beneath each one-line entry
the particulars of that entry as each of them gets "looked up". I'll be
looking them up as I get to them.....whether to post or not I'll leave to the
decision of the group.

Maynard		11/02/1997 9:53:31
Database PageThere are a million links to genealogy pages but seldom a page with only
SEARCHABLE databases.

One is Trey's Links to Sites with Searchable Genealogical Databases:

http://www.iigs.org/university/library/sgd/stlinks.htm

The bad news is that there is not much there unless you are looking heavily
for late 19th century information(unit rosters for a few CSA regiments for
example).

The good news is you can look at the whole thing in 5 minutes and be out and
gone.

Maynard		11/04/1997 4:02:07
Hollingsworth CardsCharles Neal11-4-97

Maynard wrote:
>>I'm wondering if we shouldn't use the Hollingsworth page as a "working"
page and post beneath each one-line entry the particulars of that entry as
each of them gets "looked up"..<<

I had skimmed over this portion of the message my first time reading it
thru. Sounds like a good idea to me!

BPN		11/04/1997 8:04:23
Virginia Colonial Records ProjectFor the information of the list members, following is an article that appears
in the current issue of Library of Virginia newsletter.

VCRP Ends; 40 Years of Work Recreates Missing Data

On June 27, after more than forty years, the Virginia Colonial Records
Project (VCRP) came to a conclusion.

Thanks to a new technology undreamed of when the VCRP got underway, project
director John Kneebone stated, the goals of the VCRPs founders have been
achieved.
The Virginia Colonial Records Project proposed to reconstitute on microfilm
the documentary record of Virginias colonial history that war, fire, and
accident had decimated during the centuries. Three other Virginia
institutions--the University of Virginia Library, the Virginia Historical
Society, and the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation--joined the Library of
Virginia in supporting the project. Microfilm technology made the project
possible, and the destructive experience of World War II made the project
urgent for scholars and archivists. [mp: ?]

Conceived as part of the 350th anniversary of the founding of Jamestown, the
project got underway on April 25, 1955 in the reading room of the British
library, where VCRPs first agent greated the first Survey Report describing
documents from a Virginia-related lawsuit. Over the next 30 years, project
agents went to more than 100 foreign libraries and archives and created
14,704 Survey Reports describing millions of documents. They also arranged
for microfilming of many of the records, and the VCRP now has 964 reels of
microfilmed documents. Copies of the Survey Reports and microfilm are
available for research at the participating Virginia institutions and via
inter-library loan from the Library of Virginia and the University of
Virginia Library.

The gravest problem for the VCRPs staff was organizing this mountain of
information about colonial Virginia and providing access to it for research.
The Library of Virginia has taken the responsibility for creating and
publishing finding aids to the Survey Reports
and reels of microfilmed documents. Powerful computers enabled project staff
at the Library to gain control of the data, and the swift development of the
Internet provided
a means to make the data accessible to the world. In 1996, the Library made
available an index to personal names and ship names in the Survey Reports
through the Web on the Internet. More than 500,000 personal-name entries
have been keyed into the database and specialized computer programming links
the database to images of 28,000 pages of the Survey Reports, thus creating a
complete and readily accessable finding aid to the documentary riches of the
Virginia Colonial Records Project. To access the database and the Library of
Virginias other on-line catalogs and and digital collections, point your
browser to http://leo.vsla.edu.

Scholars studying Virginia and genealogists searching for Virginia ancestors
already use the Virginia Colonial Records Project database every day and
Kneebone predicted that use will increase as the year 2007 approaches. With
the Internet making cooperation between institutions ever easier, Dr.
Kneebone observed, the VCRP is a model for even grander projects in the
future.

MP		11/07/1997 3:37:26
PGC, VALea L. DowdPrince George Co., VA, Minute Book 1737-1740 P. 244
13 Mar 1738/9
On complaint of William Poythress, one of the orphans of John Poythress of
Jordans, dec'd, who was bound to Robert Empson; for misuse, he is
discharged from apprenticeship, and chose Charles Irby his guardian.		11/07/1997 9:32:22
Mr. Batte's House of Cards[For explanation and use of the following garbled text, see message "Mr.
Batte's Decoder". -lpb]

Chart A,Poythress FName,Early,Late,Imgt,Descent,C#,Spouse LName,Spouse
FName,Imgt,Descent,C#,Comments~0,Francis
"Capt",,,(P-1),*,61,???,Mary,,,117,~1,Jane,,,(P-1),A,79,Rolfe,Thomas,,,,~2,John,,,(P-1),B,84,Peebles,Christian,,,34,~21,Joshua
"of Flower de Hundred",,1739,(P-1),BA,92,Eppes (or
Hardyman),Mary,,,,shown on some cards as Mary Hardyman/ shown on Chart A
as [blank]
Hardyman~211,Joshua,1720,1782,(P-1),BAA,96,Short,Mary,,,132,~211 1,Joshua
(III),1751,1787,(P-1),BAA A,98,Robertson,Elizabeth,,,60,~211 13,Susanna
Peachy,,,(P-1),BAA AA,169,Willcox,John Vaughn,,,,~,Elizabeth,,,(P-1),BAA
AX,99,,,,,,no card/ on back of father's card/ cites "Wyndham Robertson's
notes on microfilm in archives"/ may be confusion with BFA A (ref Chart
A)~211 12,Mary,,,(P-1),BAA AY,99,,,,,,no card/ on back of father's card/
cites "Wyndham Robertson's notes on microfilm in archives"~211
2,William,,,(P-1),BAA B,182,Gilliam,Mary,(G-1),CD,126,~211
21,Joshua,,,(P-1),BAA BA,100,Angus,Jane Mills,,,82,~211 211,Nancy
G.,,,(P-1),BAA BAA,134,Harrison,,,,,~211 22,Thomas Eppes,,,(P-1),BAA
BB,176,Bryant,Beersheeba,,,15,~211 221,Caroline,,,(P-1),BAA
BBA,19,,,,,,~211 23,William,,,(P-1),BAA BC,184,,,,,,~211 243,A.
H.,,,(P-1),BAA BCD,3,,,,,,father William on card/ father Patrick Henry on
Chart A~211 24,Patrick Henry,,,(P-1),BAA BD,135,Eppes,Mary
Elizabeth,(E-1),ABB CDC,122,beware all Eppes sections at END of LVA
index!~211 241,William Peterson,,,(P-1),BAA
BDA,202,Reed,Charlotte,,,26,~211 241 1,Mary P.,,,(P-1),BAA BDA
A,128,,,,,,~211 241 2,Patrick Henry,,,(P-1),BAA BDA B,138,,,,,,~211 241
3,William Powhatan,,,(P-1),BAA BDA C,204,Mayo,Louisa Campbell,(P-1),BGA
BFH A,104,~211 241 31,Charlotte Reed (1),,,(P-1),BAA BDA CA,28,,,,,,~211
241 32,Charlotte Reed (2),,,(P-1),BAA BDA CB,30,,,,,,~211 241 4,Sarah
Reed,,,(P-1),BAA BDA D,164,,,,,,~211 241 5,Walter Eppes,,,(P-1),BAA BDA
E,178,Brouse,Marie Josephine,,,108,~211 242,Mary,,,(P-1),BAA
BDB,110,,,,,,~211 244,Thomas Eppes,,,(P-1),BAA BDD,180,,,,,,~211
25,Mary,,,(P-1),BAA BE,112,,,,,,~211 3,Elizabeth,,,(P-1),BAA C,39,Fraser
(Frazier),Simon,,,,~211 4,Susan Ann,,,(P-1),BAA
D,166,Maitland,David,,,,Susanna on Chart
A~212,Littleberry,,,(P-1),BAB,102,,,,,,~213,William,1718,1779,(P-1),BAC,186,,,,,,William
noted as Continental
officer~214,Ann,,,(P-1),BAD,6,,,,,,~215,Elizabeth,,,(P-1),BAE,40,Peachy
(3rd spouse),Thomas Griffin,,,,~216,Mary,,,(P-1),BAF,114,Epes
(Eppes),Peter,,,,beware all Eppes sections at END of LVA
index!~22,Elizabeth,,,(P-1),BB,41,Fitzgerald,John,,,,~23,Christian,,,(P-1),BC,32,,,,,,~24,David,,1739,(P-1),BD,36,,,,,,~241,Edmund,,,(P-1),BDA,38,,,,,,~25,William
"Colonel",1694,1763,(P-1),BE,188,Epes (Eppes),Sarah,(E-1),ABA
G,162,beware all Eppes sections at END of LVA index!~251,Anne
Isham,1726,,(P-1),BEA,13,Gordon,Thomas S.,,,,~252,William
Jr.,1727,1769,(P-1),BEB,192,Eppes (1st spouse),Mary,,,124,2nd spouse
(unknown) is mother of all children cited/ card #125 notes buried at
Bothwell and quotes epitaph~252 1,William,,,(P-1),BEB A,194,,,,,,~252
2,Anne Isham,,,(P-1),BEB B,14,Yates,William,,,,~252 3,Mary,,,(P-1),BEB
C,115,Muir,Francis,,,,~252 4,Benjamin,,1789,(P-1),BEB D,17,,,,,,~252
5,Sally,,1775,(P-1),BEB E,157,,,,,,~252 6,Lucy,,,(P-1),BEB
F,106,Gordon,John,,,,~253,Sarah,1731,,(P-1),BEC,160,,,,,,~254,Elizabeth,1741,,(P-1),BED,42,Ramsay,Patrick,,,,~26,John
"Senior",1664,,(P-1),BF,86,Batte,Mary,,,120,Mary ca. 1670-1760~,Thomas
"of Martin Brandon",,,(P-1),BFA,172,Cocke,Elizabeth
Pleasants,(C-6),ACB,58,"BFA" not on card; presumed due to coding "BFA A"
on daughter's card~211 11,Elizabeth,,1800,(P-1),BFA
A,47,Cocke,James,(C-9),BCB A,,her alternate card Cocke #124/ father
Joshua III on Chart A~,Susanna,,,(P-1),BFA X,173,Hall,Robert,,,,no card
for Susanna/ on back of father's card/ no source cited~,John,,,(P-1),BFA
Y,173,,,,,,no card for John/ on back of father's card/ no source
cited~27,Peter "of Flowerdew
Hundred",,,(P-1),BG,140,???,Anne,,,,~271,Anne,,,(P-1),BGA,8,Bland,Richard,,,,~28,Robert,1690,1747,(P-1),BH,151,???,Elizabeth,,,,~281,Peter
"of Branchester",1715,1785,(P-1),BHA,142,Bland,Elizabeth,(P-1),BGA
B,52,Elizabeth ca. 1733-1791~281 8,Agnes,1770,,(P-1),BHA
A,5,Atkinson,Roger,,,,~281 2,Elizabeth Bland,1759,,(P-1),BHA
B,56,Mayo,William,,,,~281 3,Mary,1762,,(P-1),BHA C,116,Batte,John,,,,~281
1,Anne,1757,,(P-1),BHA D,9,Randolph,John,,,,~281 4,Lucy
Bland,1764,,(P-1),BHA E,107,Eppes,,,,,she also (P-1) BGA BE~281
9,Jane,1773,,(P-1),BHA F,80,Mayo,Joseph,,,,~281 6,Sally
Bland,1768,,(P-1),BHA G,159,Newton (2nd spouse),Willoughby,,,,~281
7,Susanna (Susan),1769,,(P-1),BHA H,168,Bland,Richard,,,,~281
5,William,1765,,(P-1),BHA I,196,Bland,Elizabeth Blair,(B-1),BCA D,50,~281
51,Elizabeth Bland,,,(P-1),BHA
IA,57,Marks,Richard,,,,~282,Robert,,,(P-1),BHB,154,,,,,,indecipherable
reference to Charleston,
SC~283,William,,,(P-1),BHC,198,,,,,,~284,Jane,,,(P-1),BHD,81,Baird,John,,,,~285,Tabitha,,,(P-1),BHX,152,Randolph,,,,,no
card for Tabitha/ on back of father's card/ husband Henry per Chart
A~286,Elizabeth,,,,,0,,,,,,no card and no reference in cards/ shown on
Chart A with husband John Gilliam~3,Thomas,,,(P-1),C,170,,,,,,~4,Francis
"Major",1630,1688,(P-1),D,65,Coggin (or Tye),Rebecca,,,150,"Coggin"
changed to "Tye" on #150 and #62/ unsure whether changed by Batte/ not
changed on #65 #67 #10 #88 #148 #174~,Francis "of
Surry",,,(P-1),DA,67,,,,,,~,Anne,,,(P-1),DB,10,Green,Burwell,,,,~,John,,1724,(P-1),DC,88,???,Mary,,,118,notes
that 1704 Quit Rent roll of PG labels him "Jr"~,John
Jr.,,,(P-1),DCA,90,,,,,,~,Francis,1707,1738,(P-1),DCB,69,???,Hannah,,,77,~,Francis,,,(P-1),DCB
A,71,,,,,,~,Elizabeth,1730,,(P-1),DCB X,43,,,,,,card coded "DAA" but
Hannah noted as mother (wife of
DCB)~,William,1718,,(P-1),DCC,200,,,,,,notes his 1738 request of Charles
Irby to be appointed
guardian~,Elizabeth,,,(P-1),DCD,45,,,,,,~,Rebecca,,,(P-1),DCE,146,,,,,,~,Anne,,,(P-1),DCF,11,,,,,,~,Rebecca,,,(P-1),DD,148,Pace,Richard,,,,~,Thomas,1683,1750,(P-1),DE,174,,,,,,~,Charles,,,(P-1a),*,23,Crawford,Catherine,,,21,~,John,,,(P-1a),X,22,,,,,,~,Charles,,,(P-1b),*,25,,,,,,~,???,,,(P-1c),*,48,???,Elizabeth,,,48,~,George,1719,,(P-1c),X,74,,,,,,~,Francis
"of Amelia",,1796,(P-1d),*,63,Peterson,Mary,(P-2),BD,130,notes he was
sergeant in American Revolution~,Francis,,,(P-1d),X,73,,,,,,notes he was
Revolutionary soldier~,Mary Peterson,,,(P-1d),Y,131,Randolph,Henry
Isham,,,,~,Richard,,,(P-1e),*,156,Poythress,,,,,no card for Richard/ on
card of
son~,Richard,,,(P-1e),X,156,Robertson,Susan,,,167,~,???,,,(P-1f),*,76,Ravenscroft,Georgiana,,,76,~~		11/14/1997 3:26:02
Mr. Batte's DecoderAttention, Poythress List:

If you have
used or thought about using Mr. Batte's Poythress surname cards in the
LVA digital collection;
used Mr. Batte's Poythress Chart Section A;
wished to complete his never-completed Section B;
are curious about the Batte notations and citations backing up his
Section A;
are interested in gaining insights to Mr. Batte's uncertainties and the
evolution of his thinking
then this message is for you!

I have created a spreadsheet containing all Poythress-born persons cited
on Mr. Batte's Poythress cards, with cited spouses. Using Mr. Batte's
relationship coding, the information has been sorted by descent. For
cross-reference of those persons who are also shown on Poythress Chart A,
the (different) coding used on the chart is provided. For further study
of the cards, the LVA card number of each person is included. When fully
utilized, this spreadsheet can serve as a search tool with annotations
that includes all Poythress cards.

The contents of my spreadsheet, in comma-delimited plain text form, is
being sent to you as a separate message titled "Mr. Batte's House of
Cards". From this format you may recreate it using most any spreadsheet
or database software and you have my permission to do so. Here are the
conceptual steps of what to do:
1) Replace all paragraph (end-of-line) characters with blanks (gets rid
of EOL characters accumulated during mail delivery).
2) Replace all "~" (tilda) characters with paragraph (end-of-line)
characters (restores the real EOL characters).
3) Import into the spreadsheet or database software.
4) Parse using comma delimiters.
5) Clean up formatting.

Here are specific instructions for creating a MS Excel spreadsheet (my
specific version being Excel 97) with some cleanup help from MS Word:

1) Highlight the contents and Copy (to the clipboard).
2) Paste into a new Word document.
3) Click .
4) Put cursor at the "Find what:" field; if shown, click "More" button;
click "Special" button; click "paragraph mark" from list.
5) Put cursor at the "Replace with:" field; type " " (space only, no
quotation marks).
6) Click "Replace All" button; click either "Yes", "No" or "OK", it does
not matter which.
7) Put cursor at the "Find what:" field; type "~" (tilda only, no
quotation marks).
8) Put cursor at the "Replace with:" field; click "Special" button; click
"paragraph mark" from list.
9) Click "Replace All" button; click either "Yes", "No" or "OK", it does
not matter which.
10) Click "Close".
11) Highlight the contents and Copy (to the clipboard). (The Word
document may be saved or discarded, whichever is preferred.)
12) Paste into a new Excel workbook.
13) Keep the column of text highlighted.
14) Click and .
15) Click "Delimited" button and .
16) Check "Comma"; uncheck all other delimiters; click .
17) Keep the "Chart A" column highlighted.
18) Click .
19) Click "Number" tab, select "Text", click "OK".
20) Adjust widths of columns - either a) click upper left corner of sheet
to select all; click ; or b) move
the cursor to the row of column headings; double-click the right edge of
each column.
21) Save the workbook.

By my count there are 100 Poythress-born persons in Mr. Batte's world.
Of these 100, 71 persons are both referenced in the cards and located on
Chart A; 28 persons are only in the cards; one person appears to be only
on the chart.

On the chart Mr. Batte uses a relational scheme of the form "nnn nnn "
where n is a numeral. For example, the code for Susanna Peachy Poythress
is "211 13", indicating the third child of the first child of the first
child of the first child of the second child of the immigrant, Captain
Francis Poythress. On the cards Mr. Batte uses a scheme of the form
"(@-n) @@@ @@@ " where @ is a letter, n is a number and (@-n) is the
code of the immigrant. For example, "(P-1)" is Captain Francis Poythress
and "(P-1) BFA" is Thomas Poythress of Martin Brandon, first child of the
sixth child of the second child of Captain Poythress. Using this scheme
one can recognize that "BF" is the parent of "BFA" and "BFA A" is the
child of "BFA". Sometimes birth order is followed, sometimes order of
citation in a will or some other scheme is followed (apparently in cases
where birth order is not known). It should be noted that typically, BUT
NOT ALWAYS, the ORDER and the PLACEMENT of the numeric codes and the
alpha codes agree. Agnes Poythress exemplifies disagreement of order
("BHA A" = "281 8"); Elizabeth Poythress exemplifies disagreement of
placement ("BFA A" = 211 11"). Some further notes follow:

1) In the LVA card numbering scheme, the card number is actually the
number of the SIDE of the card. So there are 205 total sides of cards.
A given person occupies between one and four sides of cards. The card
number in the spreadsheet is the FIRST side on which the person is found.
One should look at this side and sides following sequentially to review
all possible notations about the person.

2) Some persons cited in the cards do not each have a card of their own,
as for example Tabitha Poythress ("285" or "BHX").

3) For persons either not having a card of their own or having a card but
no relational code, I fabricated a code. For example, Elizabeth
Poythress, known to be daughter of "(P-1) BAA A" is coded "(P-1) BAA AX".
Where the relationship to the immigrant cannot be determined from the
cards, the earliest in the line gets a "pseudo-immigrant" designation.
For example, Francis "of Amelia", parent not stated, is coded "(P-1d)"
and his daughter Mary Peterson Poythress is coded "(P-1d) Y".

4) Every effort has been made to keep the contents of the spreadsheet
purely that of the cards. Information from other sources, EVEN
INFORMATION ON THE CHART BUT NOT ON THE CARDS (notably dates), has been
excluded intentionally.

5) Dates are early and late dates found on the cards, sometimes BUT NOT
ALWAYS birth and death dates. The cards have some citations of "before"
and "after" which have not been carried to the spreadsheet. Mr. Batte
seems to use "PT" (prior to?) for "before" and ST (subsequent to?) for
"after".

6) The URL for direct access to the Poythress cards:
http://198.17.62.51/cgi-bin/drawerIV/disk8/BA/029/P0399?1

For two reasons I encourage you to import and begin utilizing this
information soon. First, I need your help in finding my errors. Second,
I believe Mr. Batte's data holds real promise for helping us navigate the
pre-Revolutionary family and the further use and analysis of this will
require the efforts of many of us working together to accomplish. Happy
researching!

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		11/14/1997 3:39:07
11-16-97Charles NealLyn Poythress Baird,

THANKS so much for your wonderful work on the Batte spreadsheet, and on the
directions regarding how to duplicate it at home from all of your work. I
have not yet EVER done about half of the things in your list of
instructions, so doing this will be a learning process for me. (And one
that I won't attempt tonight.) But I know that Charles is well-familiar
with importing text to spreadsheets & vice versa, so if I run into trouble,
I'll pick his brain.

I am curious: At what point in such analysis as you have apparently been
doing on this (and other things), do you enter some/all of these Poythress
folks (or others you may be analyzing) into your genealogy program?
Never? Or only when you are sure they connect to your particular line? Or
have you already entered them there?

Again, thanks for all your work!

Barbara

11/16/1997 7:32:33
Organization and AnalysisBarbara, over the past several weeks you have brought up several good
questions all of us would be wise to consider, as follows:

Q: (10/23) I am curious which genealogy program you use, where you keep
all these folks complete with your source documentation annotations?
And, if you didn't pull all of these up out of your genealogy program,
what organizational method are you using for Dortch & other allied folks?

Q: (10/24) Do you actually USE your genealogy program (or alternatively,
do you USE some other system) to keep teeny bits of info on people who
are not fairly fully identified for you -- like people about whom ALL you
know is ONE tidbit of info, like Jane Doe married in 1776 to some
Poythress in whom you are interested, and like Joe Doe sold land on May
31, 1832 to someone else in whom you are interested?

Q: (10/24) And if you are using some other system (whether computerized
or not) what are you using?

Q: (10/24) If, Lyn, you are using your genealogy program to keep track of
all the Dortches you listed in your summary (& for other BRIEFLY
similarly- associated-with-Poythress-line people): What sort of study of
info do you do re the particular Poythress person (Joshua, or Elizabeth,
or whoever) who is associated with some of these associated-with-persons,
in order to decide that tidbits c, e, f, g, & h all should be Elizabeth
1, whereas tidbits a, b, & d probably should be assigned to Elizabeth 2?
i.e. I recall the wonderful summary chart you did, showing your
thought-process re certain Poythress folks being of the same family as
other Poythress folks. Do you do all that sort of analysis using any
computer program, or shuffling papers & applying grey cells and then just
recording the results of all the analysis on a spreadsheet (or a
database, or a genealogy) program ?

Q: (11/16) At what point in such analysis as you have apparently been
doing on this (and other things), do you enter some/all of these
Poythress folks (or others you may be analyzing) into your genealogy
program? Never? Or only when you are sure they connect to your
particular line? Or have you already entered them there?

---------------------------
Great questions. I will address them generally in two categories,
organization and analysis, realizing there is always some overlap.

ORGANIZATION

Most of my family data was collected fifteen or more years ago, before
most of us got PC'ed. Most of it is handwritten and filed into one of
four binders, a binder for each grandparent. About a year ago I used
this data to create a family history database in Family Tree Maker, which
contains about 400 names, mostly ancestors, their siblings and their
spouses. I would guess that all but about 20 of these are reasonably
proven relations. In screening raw data into the FTM database, I asked
myself a simple question: Am I sufficiently convinced that Person X is a
relation that I am willing to invest a substantive portion of my
available research time exploring the ancestry of Person X? If so,
Person X got into the database. All the research is my own, none
inherited. (These comments apply strictly to my family; my wife's family
information has been treated differently.)

While this technique has worked so far, I doubt it will continue to work
for at least two reasons as follows:

1) Borrowed information - With the Web and email I have more access to
the research of others. This presents both opportunity and risk. How
much verification will I perform on information before depending upon it?
What will be my criteria for verification? How do I differentiate
verified from unverified material?

2) Contextual research - The easy information is behind me; incremental
progress is more difficult now. The promise of further gains seems to be
in the direction of more contextual search; researching whole branches of
a family or, more difficult still, whole alliances of families. How do I
keep track of lots of people of undiscovered and often non-blood
relation?

Frankly, I am ignoring this organizational problem for now and do not
have good answers. Like you, I am interested in good models and
suggestions.

ANALYSIS

As you have already guessed, I love a matrix. It helps me so much to cut
through the confusion and see relationships. I am always trying to think
of some new way to cut data into a matrix. I also like sorts, especially
nested sorts (e.g. patent date within first name), probably because sorts
are really a lot like matrices. Also great are timelines, which, of
course, are just special sorts of people and events. Then again, I find
it often useful to create a hypothesis then attempt to prove or disprove
it. Like all of us, I am looking for hidden relationships, implications,
and inferences. My techniques are just ad hoc tricks mainly familiar to
me through my work. Regarding tools to perform these tricks, I use
nothing special, just Word and Excel. Sometimes the sorting and
filtering capabilities help. In other cases, just the act of forcing
information into columns and rows can be revealing, whatever one's a
priori assumptions.

So, notwithstanding Maynard's comment, no rocket science here. But let
me turn it around and ask how you organize and analyze your research data
and what recommendations you might have for us. I look forward to
hearing from you.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		11/17/1997 4:36:42
Fwd: FTMTo All Who Wonder,
I am using FTM 4.0 and think it great. I too bought FTM 3.? at Staples and
then purchased upgrade from FTM online. It arrived in mail few days later. I
have not purchased any extra CD's. The 4.0 version has a book format which
lets you write your own family history and compile it into book format with
just the click of your keys and lots of paper in your printer. I haven't
gotten that far yet.

For what it's worth, and I haven't used any other, FTM is worth it's price of
approximately $80. to $100.00.

Bruce P

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: llbaird@juno.com
To: VKRatliff@aol.com
CC: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
Date: 97-11-17 18:45:13 EST

Maynard, thanks for the approbations regarding the Batte spreadsheet.
Here are some answers regarding FTM. Yes, I use Family Tree Maker 3.40
for Win95, dated 9/12/96. I vaguely recall it had 5 CDs - the program
CD, 2 CDs containing social security records and 2 CDs containing their
"World Family Tree". I bought it off the shelf at Computer City, price
about $40 as I recall. It is the first and only family software I have
used and I have not seriously shopped for any other. So I have nil
comparative knowledge to offer.

Q: I want the "program" with as much capability as they make it.
However, I don't THINK I need the 4 CD's or 9 CD's option IF that is all
that creates the 3 tier pricing...and one can't figure that out visiting
their "page". The question is: where in the tiers does one get the the
max program?

A: I am not familiar with these multiple versions. I am going to guess
that the differences are all in the data (i.e. with/without certain
databases), not in the software features.

Q: My principle complaint with Reunion was that their "notes" for an
individual defaulted me to their own rinky dink word processor that was
about 3" wide on the screen and wouldn't accept MS Word documents parsed
correctly. My objection to that was that given the type of research we
are doing I really want considerably more than a "fill in the blanks"
program and/or a teeny little window for citations, etc. And I also want
the versatility of a "real" word processing program where entire
documents can be stored, fonts changed, symbols used, or whatever. I
asked Reunion if there was a way to "set" their program so that when I
went to "notes" I got defaulted to MS Word......or I'd even take an OLE.
They said nope and made no further comment. I guess my question is does
FTM have this capability?

A: My FTM gives me a full-screen notes editor. The functionality is very
similar to that of Microsoft Notepad - a text editor, not a word
processor, with Cut/Copy/Paste capability utilizing the Windows clipboard
(no buttons - uses Edit menu or Ctrl keys, such as ). It also
has the capability to export and inport to/from ASCII text files, no
other formats. One can change fonts, but the inability to see the
changes on the screen (only on printouts), makes this a poor tool. So
the interface is OK, data transfer is fair, but formatting is poor. I
just searched the menus for an option to assign an alternate editor or
word process, found none.

Q: And if they don't would you still opt for FTM over Reunion which is a
change I'm sort of inclined to make already?

A: Since I am unfamiliar with Reunion, I cannot say.

Another consideration would be the following: What would be the
likelihood that future, better software packages will be able to read and
convert FTM files conveniently and without loss of data? This is hard to
predict, but history and common sense would indicate that the more
popular and established a file format is, the more likely future software
will have read and conversion capabilities for it. So how popular is
FTM? I don't follow this market, so I could only guess.

FTM has the capability to export and import GEDCOM (.GED) files. I am
unfamiliar with the use of GEDCOMs. Does the source and note information
get included in a GEDCOM, or does it get stripped off? If the former,
then the question of reading and conversion becomes less critical.

One last comment: In addition to its notes capability, FTM also has a
SOURCE annotation capability. This is a painfully small field, 256
characters?, that also has the Clipboard capability. Happy shopping.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		11/17/1997 5:31:06
Spread SheetLyn:

Ditto BPN's thanks. And I'm in the same boat on getting it figured
out....but there is certainly the incentive to do so. Great work on your
part. (I have finally figured out with great certainty what you do for a
living in Houston based on your capability to build this spread sheet: if
you ain't a rocket scientist you missed a career).

And on the subject of computer programs, would you be so kind (when you
answer Barbara on the topic) as to speak to couple of my concerns. I'm
pretty sure I remember your saying you used FTM. My questions (since I'm
about to jump ship on Reunion and am reliably informed that FTM is the best
alternative) are:

1) I want the "program" with as much capability as they make it. However, I
don't THINK I need the 4 CD's or 9 CD's option IF that is all that creates
the 3 tier pricing...and one can't figure that out visiting their "page".

The question is: where in the tiers does one get the the max program?...and
of course if I have to buy all the CD's to get the most program thats okay
too. I think the soup to nuts version is still only a hundred bucks...but if
the 39.95er is the same program without the South Dakota census CD's,
wouldn't I be just as well off with that option? Or, do you think I really
need the CD's.

2) My principle complaint with Reunion was that their "notes" for an
individual defaulted me to their own rinky dink word processor that was about
3" wide on the screen and wouldn't accept MS Word documents parsed correctly.

My objection to that was that given the type of research we are doing I
really want considerably more than a "fill in the blanks" program and/or a
teeny little window for citations, etc. And I also want the versatility of a
"real" word processing program where entire documents can be stored, fonts
changed, symbols used, or whatever.

I asked Reunion if there was a way to "set" their program so that when I went
to "notes" I got defaulted to MS Word......or I'd even take an OLE. They
said nope and made no further comment.

I guess my question is does FTM have this capability? And if they don't
would you still opt for FTM over Reunion which is a change I'm sort of
inclined to make already?
And I suppose if no program (other than Roots which I don't believe ANYBODY
can understand) has the capability, I can always set up a Word file with
reference #'s as I make the documents and multitask myself over to Word after
seeing the reference # in my genealogy program "notes"....is that as simple
as it sounds or are there snakes in there?

3) And, also, I'm very interested in the questions BPN asked.

Thanks again for your enduring patience with this PC spastic.

Maynard		11/17/1997 8:51:51
SpreadsheetLynn,
Incredible work you've done here. Thanks a million for sharing it. Cornered
my two computer guru's, son Tom and son-in-law Marc this weekend with a big
HELP, please, on putting your info into the spreadsheet.

Again, many thanks for your expertise.

Barbara (BPW)

11/17/1997 10:22:48
Re: Spread SheetMaynard, thanks for the approbations regarding the Batte spreadsheet.
Here are some answers regarding FTM. Yes, I use Family Tree Maker 3.40
for Win95, dated 9/12/96. I vaguely recall it had 5 CDs - the program
CD, 2 CDs containing social security records and 2 CDs containing their
"World Family Tree". I bought it off the shelf at Computer City, price
about $40 as I recall. It is the first and only family software I have
used and I have not seriously shopped for any other. So I have nil
comparative knowledge to offer.

Q: I want the "program" with as much capability as they make it.
However, I don't THINK I need the 4 CD's or 9 CD's option IF that is all
that creates the 3 tier pricing...and one can't figure that out visiting
their "page". The question is: where in the tiers does one get the the
max program?

A: I am not familiar with these multiple versions. I am going to guess
that the differences are all in the data (i.e. with/without certain
databases), not in the software features.

Q: My principle complaint with Reunion was that their "notes" for an
individual defaulted me to their own rinky dink word processor that was
about 3" wide on the screen and wouldn't accept MS Word documents parsed
correctly. My objection to that was that given the type of research we
are doing I really want considerably more than a "fill in the blanks"
program and/or a teeny little window for citations, etc. And I also want
the versatility of a "real" word processing program where entire
documents can be stored, fonts changed, symbols used, or whatever. I
asked Reunion if there was a way to "set" their program so that when I
went to "notes" I got defaulted to MS Word......or I'd even take an OLE.
They said nope and made no further comment. I guess my question is does
FTM have this capability?

A: My FTM gives me a full-screen notes editor. The functionality is very
similar to that of Microsoft Notepad - a text editor, not a word
processor, with Cut/Copy/Paste capability utilizing the Windows clipboard
(no buttons - uses Edit menu or Ctrl keys, such as ). It also
has the capability to export and inport to/from ASCII text files, no
other formats. One can change fonts, but the inability to see the
changes on the screen (only on printouts), makes this a poor tool. So
the interface is OK, data transfer is fair, but formatting is poor. I
just searched the menus for an option to assign an alternate editor or
word process, found none.

Q: And if they don't would you still opt for FTM over Reunion which is a
change I'm sort of inclined to make already?

A: Since I am unfamiliar with Reunion, I cannot say.

Another consideration would be the following: What would be the
likelihood that future, better software packages will be able to read and
convert FTM files conveniently and without loss of data? This is hard to
predict, but history and common sense would indicate that the more
popular and established a file format is, the more likely future software
will have read and conversion capabilities for it. So how popular is
FTM? I don't follow this market, so I could only guess.

FTM has the capability to export and import GEDCOM (.GED) files. I am
unfamiliar with the use of GEDCOMs. Does the source and note information
get included in a GEDCOM, or does it get stripped off? If the former,
then the question of reading and conversion becomes less critical.

One last comment: In addition to its notes capability, FTM also has a
SOURCE annotation capability. This is a painfully small field, 256
characters?, that also has the Clipboard capability. Happy shopping.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		11/17/1997 12:33:18
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #139William A BridgforthINCREDIBLE --" I have created a spreadsheet containing all Poythress-born
persons cited on Mr. Batte's Poythress cards, with cited spouses."

I know nothing about spreadsheets, but found one in Microsoft Works. Lyn
P., you're incredible !! Great chart, great instructions for a
non-computer type person!! (You didn't tell me I'd have to paste 12
pages together !!!)

Now, I wish "we" could complete Batte's never-completed Section B. Al
Tims, do you still have my feeble attempt to get that started?

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com		11/18/1997 8:03:24
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #139Bill is my first "confirmed user" of the Batte index. Anybody else up
and running yet? What's the "ownership experience"? Let me hear from
you. I willing to fix bugs and support the product on request - and the
price is right.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:03:24 -0500 wab705@juno.com (William A Bridgforth)
writes:
>INCREDIBLE --" I have created a spreadsheet containing all
>Poythress-born persons cited on Mr. Batte's Poythress cards, with
>cited spouses."
>
>I know nothing about spreadsheets, but found one in Microsoft Works.
>Lyn P., you're incredible !! Great chart, great instructions for a
>non-computer type person!! (You didn't tell me I'd have to paste 12
>pages together !!!)
>
>Now, I wish "we" could complete Batte's never-completed Section B.
>Al Tims, do you still have my feeble attempt to get that started?
>
>Bill Bridgforth
>wab705@juno.com		11/20/1997 6:16:20
Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #139Lyn.....may we start over again at "see Spot, see Spot run, etc"?......hey,
I'm strugglin' with it.

Maynard

11/21/1997 9:03:41
POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780John GillDoes anyone have any information on a Francess Pothress/Pathress, dates
unknown, who married William Gill (8/22/1718 - 2/12/1781) of Mecklenburg
& Henrico Counties, VA in about 1740. I have a note that says she was
living in Chesterfield Co in 1780 as the wife of Wm. Gill.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John Gill
Sarasota, FL
jjsg3@home.com		11/21/1997 10:16:31
Re: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780Albert R. TimsJohn,

Your query is the second one we've received in recent weeks suggesting (1)
a Frances Poythress and (2) a family link to the Gill surname. I recall
seeing no prior information on either point. Francis is a male given name
that has followed through this family line from 1633 to the present. We
don't see the same tradition with the female given name of Frances.

I suspect the only way we're going to make any sort of progress on your
query is to start with your information source. We're always thrilled when
something new pops on the scene, especially since the full Poythress family
history remains as much mystery as history.

I'm sure all of us look forward to hearing more about the source of your
information.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: John Gill
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780
> Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 11:16 PM
>
> Does anyone have any information on a Francess Pothress/Pathress, dates
> unknown, who married William Gill (8/22/1718 - 2/12/1781) of Mecklenburg
> & Henrico Counties, VA in about 1740. I have a note that says she was
> living in Chesterfield Co in 1780 as the wife of Wm. Gill.
>
> Any assistance would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Gill
> Sarasota, FL
> jjsg3@home.com		11/22/1997 2:16:26
Re: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780StarrHi everyone and especially Barbara,
I picked up on the GILL name with interest because someone has suggested
one of my TRAYLORs married a GILL early on. I'll ask John if he has a TRAYLOR
in his database. But also, Barb and I touched on the possibility a Frances
TAYLOR who married a POYTHRESS in Mech. Co. VA might be TRAYLOR instead. The
two surnames are interchanable in GA in 1800s. I promise to send a list of
all TRAYLORs in Meck. as soon as I've recovered -- emergency surgery 2 1/2
weeks has slowed me considerably -- but this is something else to consider
with the new surname GILL in the pot.

Craig -- Should I be noting the POYTHRESS-like surname I ran across in
Fauquier Co. VA early 1700s? Or have you already done everything you can
with him? I think I came across the reference in Hayden's _Genealgoy of the
Glassell Family_ while looking for other surnames while reclining and half-
asleep -- that one woke me up for sure. It's more like PORTRESS, but close
enough. Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm		11/22/1997 5:51:25
Re: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780Judith DouglasJohn Gill wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any information on a Francess Pothress/Pathress, dates
> unknown, who married William Gill (8/22/1718 - 2/12/1781) of Mecklenburg
> & Henrico Counties, VA in about 1740. I have a note that says she was
> living in Chesterfield Co in 1780 as the wife of Wm. Gill.
>
> Any assistance would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Gill
> Sarasota, FL
> jjsg3@home.com
Hi,
I'm new at watching this and was very pleased when I saw your query. I
was given those names as ancestors. What I have is not verified, but I
have a Francis Poythress who married a William Gill; however, I don't
have any information on her. I do have some on the Gill line. William
Gill was born about 1718 in Henrico Co, VA, died about 1781 in Meckburg
Co, VA. They had a son Joseph Gill, born about 1735 in Granville Co,
NC. His son was Thomas Gill. Their daughter Francis Gill, etc. I'd
love to compare information if this sounds familiar to anyone.
Thank you,

Judy Douglas
jdouglas@esc18.tenet.edu		11/22/1997 7:12:35
POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780Charles Neal11-22-97

John Gill,

Sorry, I am not aware of having seen any previous reference to this Frances
Pothress. Do you know where the information in the note you have came to
you from? I would be very interested to know, if so.

Barbara Poythress Neal		11/22/1997 8:48:21
Re: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780John GillStarr wrote:
>
> Hi everyone and especially Barbara,
> I picked up on the GILL name with interest because someone has suggested one of my TRAYLORs married a GILL early on. I'll ask John if he has a TRAYLOR in his database.
>
> Linda Sparks Starr
> starr81@ix.netcom.com
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm

--
Linda,

No TRAYLORs or TAYLORs so far, but I'm awash in GILLS -- I've got them
in York, New Kent, Mattapony Neck, Northumberland, Henrico,
Chesterfield, Mecklenburg, Lunenburg, Halifax and God wot where else.

If you'll give me a sex and a date, I'll see what I can find.
Fortunately they were fond of making wills -- that may be because of
George (<1621-1677) who was an attorney, or it may have been Stephen,
the illiterate "chirugen" who used something that looked a lot like a
dollar sign (100+ years early) for his mark.

John Gill		11/22/1997 9:31:30
Re: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780Charles Neal11-23-97

Linda,

Good to hear from you! Hope the recuperation is going smoothly. I'm doing
pretty well. Was able to work 2 days during the wk of the 10th, and 3 days
last week. Plan to work Mon & Tues before our kids arrive from San
Francisco on Weds morning, to celebrate my 50th and enjoy Thanksgiving
dinner down at Charles' sister's house. Hope to make it thru a full wk at
work the following wk without exhaustion setting in.

Re your "Should I be noting the POYTHRESS-like surname I ran across in
Fauquier Co. VA early 1700s? Or have you already done everything you can
with him? I think I came across the reference in Hayden's _Genealgoy of
the Glassell Family_ . . . Portress . . ."

I would be interested in hearing more about him, if you can find the
reference again.

Best wishes for good continued recovery.

BPN		11/23/1997 6:10:22
Re: Lyn P Baird's SpreadsheetCharles Neal11-23-97

Lyn, finally I can answer your question of "Anybody else up and running
yet? What's the "ownership experience"? Let me hear from you. I willing
to fix bugs and support the product on request - and the price is right."

With some assistance from Charles this afternoon, I am pleased to say that
I now have a working copy of your wonderful spreadsheet product of the
Batte cards. What fantastic work you have done!! This is a GREAT
spreadsheet & you did a LOT of work on it, which I SURELY do appreciate.
Now I look forward to learning how to use this great tool.

I do have several observations and questions:

- First, can you please clarify for me what the non-abbreviated form of
your column headings are?
I ended up with (using letters for designating the columns) columns A thru
M, and I understand some of them better than others. In case I have not
followed set-up directions correctly, I'll list here what I got as
headings, and put my observations/questions re some of them with the
headings:

- (A) "Chart A" is on first line; "FName" is on 2nd line, beneath it.
This does not seem to stand for "first name from Chart A" as I had
initially supposed. Indeed, since in that column are almost exclusively
numbers, this is one that I am wondering whether I even got the heading
over the correct column. The numbers are either on the right side of the
column (for "main" numbers, such as 1 or 21 or 211) or on the left side of
the column, for descended numbers such as "211 1" and 211 12." Is that
how you designed it, or is that random placement by my version of Excel?

- (B) "Poythress FName" is on first line; "Imgt" is on 2nd line, beneath
it. Since this column mainly has first names in it, or perhaps I should
say first & middle names in it, I'm interpreting this as the first & middle
names of people, all of whom are surnamed Poythress -- right? What about
"Imgt" -- Does it really belong there, or elsewhere? Does it stand for
"Immigrant" or for something else?

- (C) "Early Descent" This column has very few entries in it, which makes
me wonder about my set-up. The first listing that has anything in this
column is the entry for #211 Joshua (line 14 on my spreadsheet), and this
column has "1720" in it. Using that fellow, can you tell me in words how
to interpret/use this column, please?

- (D) "Late" on first line; "C#" on second line. Using same listing as
immediately above, this line has "1782" in it. Same question as above.

- (E) "Imgt" on first line; "Comment" on second line. Until I get down to
the lower part of page 5, every line has "(P-1)" in this column. Then the
remaining ones have P-1a, P-1b, P-1c, etc thru P-1f. The first person
in the entire spreadsheet is Francis "Capt" and he is designated (P-1)
also. Otherwise I would have figured that the P-1a etc folks descended
from the P-1, but since obviously many of the P-1 folks descend from the
first P-1, I find I need "talking thru" this column's meaning, too. Or
are these labels for some footnotes or something else?

- (F) "Descent" This column has things like BAA BA, and BFA X in it,
which I take to have great meaning, though I'm feeling dense for not
grasping it already.

- (G) "C#" This seems likely the Chart # on Chart A -- right?

- (H) "Spouse LName" This would be the surname of this person's spouse --
right?

- (I) "Spouse" This is the person's spouse's first name -- right?

- (J) No heading; used rarely; ??

- (K) No heading; used rarely; ??

- (L) No heading. Contains numbers on about half the lines of page 1,
rarely used after that. ??

- (M) No heading. Used just for additional explanatory comments -- right?

I also have a few questions about specific things in several places that
seem on my version to be in the wrong fields, but I'll put those in another
message later since Charles needs to check this computer's backup right
now.

Again, this is a GREAT spreadsheet & you did a LOT of work on it, which I
SURELY do appreciate. Now I look forward to learning how to use this great
tool.

BPN		11/23/1997 6:10:29
POTHRESS, FrancisPat Graves ReaganI am going to pretend like I know what I am doing. The first thing that
I thought of could this be a mistake that could have happen in the
spelling and passing down information. I have gone on many fishing trips
with this kind of problem.

Maybe instead of Gill it could have been Gilliam or Gillum, there is one
you know and the Gillium that married into this family . The Father
names is Francis Pothress, the daughter is name is Jane and I think
there is also a Ann. There is also a connection with the Taylor family.
Believe me this is just a suggestion.

I have been trying to find out the parents of Sarah Gilliam born in 1790
in Virginia, somewhere , so I have gotton to know the Gilliam line and
it is spelled every way possible.
I think she is from the Frederick County line. It is the line of gilliam
that not to much has been done on the whole line. Several of them have
been wonderfully done. Its just a thought, or it shows how desperate I
am. Even Mary Olds does not have the anserers, if any one can help sure
would appricate it.

You seem to be having the same problem that I am having you know they
are there but no one else has ever heard of them.

Good Luck

Pat Graves Reagan		11/23/1997 8:57:56
Frances POTHRESSJohn GillHere is the sum total of the information I have on Frances
POTHRESS/PATHRESS/POYTHRESS, all second or third hand -- I have seen
none of the documents referred to, but I'm going to spend Monday at the
LDS and the local library trying to find them:

A reference to a will of William GILL's, probated in Mecklenburg Co in
1781, and a note that "Frances POTHRESS" was living in Chesterfield
County, VA in 1780 as the wife of William GILL; this last presumably
from a census of some sort. There is also some secondary evidence,
(also without citation) in a reference to a "Frances PATHRESS" as the
wife of William GILL, received from someone I don't know, and a
reference to "Frances POYTHRESS" as the wife of William GILL, received
as a result of my posting here.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, and if I can be of
assistance in tracking down any GILL links, I would be delighted to do
so. I'm already looking into a GILL - TRAYLOR/TAYLOR connection.

Thanks,

John Gill
--
Sarasota, FL
jjsg3@home.com
jjsg3@packet.net
http://www.brewcrafters.com
http://www.bridgewatch.org		11/23/1997 11:23:28
Re: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780Albert R. TimsJohn,

One of our list members sent me the following note. Perhaps with more
helpful folks like Bruce researching and pooling information we'll make
some progress on your Gill query.
Best,
Al Tims

-----------------
This might be of some help: Chesterfield County was formed from Henrico
County in 1749. If this William Gill information could be located, his
address probably stayed the same just the county changed.

I am going to the Chesterfield Courthouse on Monday--wl see what the deeds
and marriage records might have.

Bruce Porter
----------
> From: John Gill
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: POTHRESS, Frances; Mecklenburg/Henrico CO, VA <1740->1780
> Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 11:16 PM
>
> Does anyone have any information on a Francess Pothress/Pathress, dates
> unknown, who married William Gill (8/22/1718 - 2/12/1781) of Mecklenburg
> & Henrico Counties, VA in about 1740. I have a note that says she was
> living in Chesterfield Co in 1780 as the wife of Wm. Gill.
>
> Any assistance would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Gill
> Sarasota, FL
> jjsg3@home.com		11/23/1997 11:35:22
CALL FOR CURRENT INTEREST STATEMENTSAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Now would be an excellent time for all of us to repost a brief statement of
our most pressing question(s) related to Poythress and allied family
genealogy. I know that many of us are interested in "all things Poythress"
and that others have more specific time frames or specific allied family
interests. I also know that some of you have done this before.

My thinking is that each of us should identify the question or issue of
greatest immediate concern in a brief post to the entire list. If you have
gathered lots of information about a particular allied family, place, time
period, event, etc., then some mention of that would be helpful too.

Finally, many of you have sent me things that rightfully should be up on
the web page. I simply haven't had time to devote to updates. It would be
quite helpful to receive some reminder notes. I'm hoping to set aside some
time over the holiday weekend to do a major update.

Best to all,

Al Tims

11/23/1997 12:05:48
Greene CountyBelow as info:

GDAH 10/17/97

Drawer 32/ Roll 21

Greene County, Georgia Superior Court Minutes Vol. 8, (1831-1839)
Thursday, 14 March 1833

Page 171: John Chew v. Albert T. Green

It appearing to the court that the property levied upon by the above
attachment is of a perishable nature, it is on motion of counsel ordered that
the property be sold and the proceeds be deposited to the clerk�s office to
wait the further order of the Court.

Signed: Augustus Wallace, Silas Burns, etc. etc.,
Hardiman Poythress, etc. (petit jurors for the
case)

Another reason we will have to ultimately acknowledge and account for the
Greene County, Georgia folks....first they show a Francis, now a Hardiman.
We could call a Francis a coincidence but not a Francis AND a Hardiman.
They're ours somewhere in there.

Maynard		11/24/1997 9:15:45
Current Interest StatementAl, neat idea. Here goes:

1) is Thomas Poythress of Brunswick County, Va. (b. ca 1740) the same
individual as Thomas Poythress, sheriff of Burke County, Georgia (d. 1801)?

2) what is the linkage of Thomas Poythress of Brunswick/Mecklenburg Counties,
Va. to the earlier members of the family in Prince George County, Va.?

Recognizing my own urge to list about 10 more, I'll suggest each limit his
"list" to max of 2. Otherwise, the downside is this could turn into a deal
not unlike the e-mails we often get from strangers saying "tell me all you
know about the Poythresses". Conceivably, max one might even be more
workable....in terms of getting someone to pay attention to it. Suggest you
decide.

Maynard		11/24/1997 9:15:52
Current Research IssuesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Thanks to Maynard Poythress and Craig Scott for jumping on the invitation
for a reposting of current interests. I'm one of those generally
interested in anything and everything concerning the Poythress and allied
families. I find myself most easily captivated by just about any issue
related to the Poythress family prior to the mid 1800s. Two specific
topics of special interest are:

1. The English origins of our original known immigrant -- Francis
Poythress. Of related interest -- who was/were his spouse(s)?

2. Like Maynard -- What is the linkage of Thomas Poythress of
Brunswick/Mecklenburg Counties, Va. to the earlier members of the family in
Prince George County, Va.?

Best,

Al Tims		11/24/1997 10:28:53
Re: Benjamin & JoshuaCharles NealMessage text written by Craig:
>Joshua Poythress of Prince George County, Va., such that Josuha would give
Benjamin his watch prior to Joshua's departure for N.J. where he then died.
<

Craig,

Apparently I have been asleep at the switch at some point: This Joshua
Poythress of PG Co who departed for NEW JERSEY where he died !?! -- when
did Joshua die, and what source do you have for his death indicating that
he went from PG Co to NJ ? To help me keep track of which Joshua this is,
versus other Joshuas, have you any other info about him (such as his age or
when he was born, or which census township or which tax list he was on, in
PG Co)?

BPN

11/24/1997 10:35:48
Greene CountyCharles NealMaynard,

Good catch. You're right; they have to fit into the same family.

Ay,
BPN

11/24/1997 10:35:51
CALL FOR CURRENT INTEREST STATEMENTSCharles NealAl,

Re the "gentle reminder" portion of your message. If you have a chance,
please add the photos that Judy took to the image file on the website, with
the info about Sarah's years of living that I tracked down from John
Dorman.

I think right now my major interest would be in us compiling specific
sourced-data for building Batte's Part 2 Chart, or Chart B, or whatever we
want to call it.

BPN		11/24/1997 10:35:53
Re: Current Interest StatementCraig R. Scott1) Who are the parents of Benjamin Poythress (I will not be greedy and ask
how he conects to Francis), a huckster of Petersburg, Va. (1863) who has
wife Susan M. Williams. Both buried in Blandford.

2) What is the relationship between Benjamin Poythress of Petersburg, Va.
and Joshua Poythress of Prince George County, Va., such that Josuha would
give Benjamin his watch prior to Joshua's departure for N.J. where he then died.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		11/24/1997 12:17:05
Re: Current interestsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pat & Maurice, thank you making the connection to Christopher clear. As
you suggest, we still don't have anything solid to connect the Francis
Poythress baptized in 1609 to the Francis Poythress we find in Virginia in
the 1630s. The odds of there being two or more individuals named Francis
Poythress at this time seem quite long, but such a critical connection
clearly deserves the careful attention you're continuing to devote to the
issue.

I do have a couple of specific questions you may be able to help us
evaluate.

1. Do you think it is possible to determine if Lawrence Evans (merchant of
Wood Street in London) was somehow associated with the trade out of Bristol
to Virginia? My reason for asking is that we know Francis Poythress was a
"factor" for Lawrence Evans in the early 1630s. If Francis was out of the
Gloucestershire area then it may make sense to look for him associated with
the Bristol trade. By the following record, we also know that Francis MAY
have accompanied the following ships:

"Lawrence Evans, merchant, sent to Virginia in the previous year goods for
a value of £2,000 in three ships, the Rebecca, master - Richard Buckham,
the George, master -- Robert Page, and the Hopewell, master -- William
Smith. One factor died during the journey, his other factor Francis Poetres
returned a bill of only £150. The rest of the goods were carried away by
the three masters and their crew. Order to try and trace the goods
belonging to Evans."

2. We have Thomas Poythress (son of Francis) returning to England by
virtue of the following record. Is there any reason to believe that we
might be able to trace where Mr. George Laud lived? The title of Mr.
suggests that he was a person of some standing. Along the same lines, is
it possible to determine the ship Authur Graunt owned (or captained)? If
so, we might be able to determine the port of entry for this sailing. I
know these may be long shots, but this meager information is nearly all we
have at the moment.

Volume II, Charles City County Court Orders, 1658-1661: Page 213
"These presents oblige me Arthur Graunt to Carry Thomas Poythres in my ship
this yeare for England and at his arrivall there in case mr. George Laud
shall not accomodate him w'th Dyett and lodging, I do hereby oblige my
selfe to do it untill the retorne of the next shipping to this Countrey of
Virginia, w'ch I am to do gratis w'thout expecting any pay, and the next
yeare to bring him into this Countrey againe he paying for his passage
inward as others doe. To the performance whereof I bind me my heires ex'rs
and adm'rs and In testimony thereof have hereunto put my hand this 30th of
November 1659."

Wit: Arthur Graunt, John Stith

I realize that these aren't easy questions.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net
> To: Poythress group
> Subject: Current interests
> Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 10:50 AM
>
> Hi all,
> We think it is a good idea to repost current interests.
> 1. Assuming that the Francis born 1609 in Newent, Glos is the son of
> John Poydresse who died around 1648 and the brother of my ancestor
> Christopher, we want to find John's burial and to know who was his wife.
> I am making a mental note to go through all the parish registers in the
> right area next time I get a chance.
> 2. We want to know who were the parents of the above John. There are so
> many possibilities that it is very difficult to sort out the entries,
> bearing in mind that we may not yet have found his baptism.
> Regards,
> Pat & Maurice		11/25/1997 2:49:44
Re: CALL FOR CURRENT INTEREST STATEMENTSRE: Current interests

1. As my original query is posted, I am still trying to find the mother
of Tabitha Poythress. Who did Robert Poythress of Prince George Co.
marry? Was she another Elizabeth Bland?

2. I also am interested in the early British Poythress history.

Elise "Lisette" Markham
wry@aye.net		11/25/1997 2:57:55
Current Research InterestPoythress List,

1)What is the relationship of David Poythress (1800-1876) of Vance and Warren
Counties, NC to Lewis Poythress (circa 1772-1850) of Mecklenburg County, VA?

2) And in a related interest, David was married to Mary Speed Dortch in 1827
and then to Sally Dortch in 1848. What is the relationship between these two
wives?

Barbara (BPW)		11/25/1997 9:38:33
Wedding InvitationsI have just received the two wedding invitations in the mail that were found
in the papers of my g-grandmother Indianna Peru Twisdale Poythress who was
married to Charles David Poythress (1849-1892). They are treasures!

What they indicate is that James S. Poythress, half-brother to Charles David
Poythress is indeed James Speed Poythress, who moved to Mississippi. The
grooms named here, Charles W. and James D. are sons of James Speed.

The invitations are presented on very heavy paper, which reminds me of
tagboard.

Lucy White's invitation has cutouts and embossed artwork. The cutouts hold
their calling cards.
It reads:
Mrs. R. E. White requests the honor of your presence at the marriage of her
daughter, Lucy, to Mr. C. W. Poythress, on Wednesday evening June Seventh, at
3 o'clock, Methodist Church, Mayerhoff Springs, Miss., 1893.

Carrie Shephard's invitation has three smaller envelopes detailed with silk
tassels. The two smallest envelopes are just big enough for their calling
cards, and the larger one holds the invitation:
Mr. and Mrs. D. B. Shephard request your presence at the marriage of their
daughter, Carrie, to James D. Poythress, Wednesday evening, September
eleventh, eighteen hundred and ninety-five, eight o'clock, Baptist Church,
Macon, Mississippi.

I will be photographing and copying the invitations for everyone to see.

Best, Barbara (BPW)		11/25/1997 9:39:52
Current interestsHi all,
We think it is a good idea to repost current interests.
1. Assuming that the Francis born 1609 in Newent, Glos is the son of
John Poydresse who died around 1648 and the brother of my ancestor
Christopher, we want to find John's burial and to know who was his wife.
I am making a mental note to go through all the parish registers in the
right area next time I get a chance.
2. We want to know who were the parents of the above John. There are so
many possibilities that it is very difficult to sort out the entries,
bearing in mind that we may not yet have found his baptism.
Regards,
Pat & Maurice		11/25/1997 9:50:27
Re: CALL FOR CURRENT INTEREST STATEMENTSKen PooleHi Steve, I live in Moore and was raised in Montgomery (old Anson) NC, and
I have been working to connect all the early settlers I can. Anson was
settled early by many southsiders, many who came here in the French Indian
War and remained.

What others are you researching from this area? Ken

At 01:43 PM 11/26/97 -0500, SteveW602@aol.com wrote:
>My current Poythress interest is to determine if a John Wall who married Ann
>Poythress in Virginia is the father of John Wall of Anson County, NC. I know
>that the latter John Wall moved from Virginia to Anson County, in the same
>area of the former John Wall, and I know that the name Poythress has been
>used by the descendants of the latter John Wall.
>
>
>Steve Wall
>
>		11/26/1997 2:34:32
Current InterestsCurrent interests are:

1) Who are the parents of Lewis Poythress (bef. 1770 - aft. 1846) of
Mecklenburg Co., Va. and his brother, George Poythress (??? - 1832) of
Burke Co., Ga. and Jackson Co., Fla.?

2) What is their relationship to Meredith Poythress, Sr. of Mecklenburg
Co., Va. and Screven Co., Ga., son of Thomas Poythress of Brunswick Co.,
Va.?

As a third-great-grandson of Lewis, these questions must be at the top of
my list. I am wandering back into the colonial period and have
constructed a plausible fable, which, if true, would fill in all the
generations from Lewis back to our imigrant. However, for my line Lewis
is the point at which evidence turns to speculation.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		11/26/1997 3:28:20
Re: Lyn P Baird's SpreadsheetBarbara, congratulations on getting the spreadsheet going. There should
be thirteen columns headed as follows:

1) Chart A: the numeric descent code from Poythress Chart Section A;
blank indicates entry is not in the chart
2) Poythress FName: first name of the person
3) Early: evidenced early date of the person
4) Late: evidenced late date of the person
5) Imgt: code of immigrant (or pseudo-immigrant) ancestor of the person
6) Descent: the alphabetic descent code from the Batte card of the person
7) C#: the LVA card number of the person
8) Spouse LName: birth surname of the spouse
9) Spouse FName: given name of the spouse
10) Imgt: code of immigrant ancestor of spouse
11) Descent: the alphabetic descent code from the Batte card of the
spouse
12) C#: the LVA card number of the spouse
13) Comments: comments

>From your message I am interpreting that somehow your column 9 has
landed beneath your column 1 (or interleaved with your column 1);
similarly your columns 10 through 13 have interleaved with columns 2
through 5. One explanation of this could be that there were still some
bogus end-of-line characters when the text was parsed into the
spreadsheet. Everytime the spreadsheet sees an end-of-line character, it
creates a new line in the spreadsheet. You may want to start over,
making sure to remove all end-of-line characters before converting the
tilda (~) marks. Or you may want to try shuffling cells in the
spreadsheet. If you take the latter course, beware! If the problem is
as speculated above, the bogus EOL characters will likely fall at
different locations on different lines. This means that some of the
out-of-place cells now in your column 1 may be from other columns besides
column 9.

Regarding the "ABA BBA C" stuff in the Descent column, yes, this is the
MEAT of the data. The following is lifted from the "Mr. Batte's Decoder"
message:

On the chart Mr. Batte uses a relational scheme of the form "nnn nnn "
where n is a numeral. For example, the code for Susanna Peachy Poythress
is "211 13", indicating the third child of the first child of the first
child of the first child of the second child of the immigrant, Captain
Francis Poythress. On the cards Mr. Batte uses a scheme of the form
"(@-n) @@@ @@@ " where @ is a letter, n is a number and (@-n) is the
code of the immigrant. For example, "(P-1)" is Captain Francis Poythress
and "(P-1) BFA" is Thomas Poythress of Martin Brandon, first child of the
sixth child of the second child of Captain Poythress. Using this scheme
one can recognize that "BF" is the parent of "BFA" and "BFA A" is the
child of "BFA". Sometimes birth order is followed, sometimes order of
citation in a will or some other scheme is followed (apparently in cases
where birth order is not known). It should be noted that typically, BUT
NOT ALWAYS, the ORDER and the PLACEMENT of the numeric codes and the
alpha codes agree. Agnes Poythress exemplifies disagreement of order
("BHA A" = "281 8"); Elizabeth Poythress exemplifies disagreement of
placement ("BFA A" = 211 11").

Sorry I cannot help in person. Keep me posted on progress.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com		11/26/1997 4:06:07
Re: Early English researchAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pat -- Many thanks for your efforts and your "racked" brains. I hope you
understand that I'm not requesting that you divert your efforts to
researching these questions -- just that you might offer your best advice
about the prospects of building a connection or two out of these odd bits
of information.

I have this little theory that Lawrence Evans must have been a rather
substantial merchant to have loaded three ships with goods for Virginia. I
do know that the ships Hopewell, Rebecca and George were frequent visitors
to the Virginia ports. The George is the very ship that Pocahontas had
booked for her return to Virginia in March of 1617. And Hopewell Virginia
is named in honor of the good ship Hopewell -- a ship that carried many of
the early immigrants to Virginia. Clearly, these ships were part of the
London Company fleet. I do not know if these ships were privately owned,
or if they were owned by the Company itself. My ignorance of the
operational history of that enterprise is showing :-). All of this
circumstantial stuff makes me wonder if our Francis Poythress might not
have had some sort of place in that organization. This speculation is
further fueled by the fact that we see a second generation Virginia
connection to the Woodlief family. Capt. John Woodlief was the founder of
the Berkeley Company. This venture is "apparently" described in "George
Thorpe and the Berkeley Company: A Gloucestershire Enterprise in Virginia
by Eric Gethyn-Jones (Alan Sutton, 1982)." This gives us another possible
reason to focus on a possible Gloucestershire connection.

In my wild speculations I further wonder if Francis Poythress might have
been connected in some way to John Rolfe? Possible I suppose -- since we
believe his daughter, Jane Poythress, married Thomas Rolfe -- son of
Pocahontas and John Rolfe. Then again, I've yet to see any real proof of
this marriage. An interesting yarn, but not much of any substance to make
it all come together.

Thanks again.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: maurice.crewe@virgin.net
> To: Poythress group
> Subject: Early English research
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 10:53 AM
>
> Al,
> You really do put some tough questions.
> We are racking our brains to come up with some sensible suggestions.
> Maurice is going to contact the National Maritime Museum to try to
> ascertain whether they have information on the ships you mention.
> However, this may prove to be of no use at all.
> There may be answers at the Public Record Office, Bristol Record Office
> or Gloucester Record Office but it will be some time before we can visit
> these.
> In it's day Gloucester was an important port in it's own right but we
> don't know how big it was in the 1600s. We think it went out of favour
> as ships got larger in the late 1800s.
> If we come up with anything of interest, we will let you know - but
> don't hold your breath!
>
> Regards,
> Pat & Maurice		11/26/1997 5:16:07
Wedding InvitationsAlbert R. Tims, Sr.Cousin Barbara,

This is Nell Tims the granddaughter of James David & Carrie
Shephard Poythress and the mother of Al Tims, Jr. The posting you just
made on the wedding invitations is of great personal interest since it
documents that Charles W. Poythress and James Speed Poythress were half
brothers. Thank You - Thank You - Thank You. Do we know who the father
of C.W. & J.S. is?

Wishing you & yours a wonderful Thanksgiving tomorrow.

Best,

Cousin Nell

W

11/26/1997 8:32:02
Fwd: Issue: Who was John/Job Portis/Porthress of Va? or NC?In a message dated 97-11-26 00:33:04 EST, atims@minn.net writes:
In answer to AL's call for current issues:

> THIS IS MY CURRENT ISSUE:
>
> My ancestors, Captain Richard Ransom and KESIAH PORTIS/PORTHRESS,
b.1763, Franklin County, NC m. 1784 in Halifax Co., NC; d. Oct. 10, 1841
in
> Murphreesboro, Rutherford Co., Tennessee.): WHO WAS HER FATHER?
>
> CLUE: Among the informational items sent to me by Robert Ransom who is
> also a descendant of theirs and who has done a tremendous amount of
research on the Ransoms...an excerpt from
BIBLE RECORDS -TOMBSTONE INSCRIPTIONS.
(Sorry I don't have the exact name of the book at the moment, but all
the facts on Ransoms which I have seen are correct, as well as the
wives' names, etc.

> Following a section entitled
MEMORANDA IN VIRGINIA DARE BYRN'S BIBLE
> (p336) is subsection titled: RANSOM LINE (p337)

generation 4 has a description of Capt. Richard's family and his Rev.
War service. Then this:
> "After the revolution he moved to North Carolina and settled in Halifax
> County; MARRIED KEZZIAH PORTIS, DAUGHTER OF
JOB PORTIS (and here, Robert Ransom has made a note that the name
should be JOHN PORTIS) in 1784."

> NO more is said about this JOB/JOHN PORTIS (same family referred to as
> Porthress in NC records).

> Does anyone have a clue WHICH JOHN PORTIS
this North Carolinian might be?(Franklin or Halifax Co?)
or maybe he, like Richard Ransom, is originally from Virginia?

Any help out there? I am guessing JOB/JOHN PORTIS was
> born about the 1740s going by his daughter Kezziah/Kesiah's birthdate of
> 1763.

> CAROLINE BURNETT COOK
> 6th gen granddaughter of Kezziah Portis

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: atims@minn.net (Albert R. Tims)
To: CarBurCo@AOL.COM
Date: 97-11-26 00:33:04 EST

Caroline,

Did you post this to the entire list or just to me. I'm
delighted to have
this reminded, but my message header "suggests" that it
may not have gotten
out to the rest of the crew. If that is a correct
assumption, would you
mind reposting it to the entire list? I'm hoping to
do a little
reinvigorating -- now that I'm starting to have more time to
devote to
this little passion of mine once again. I'm still up to my neck
in
problems at work, but I just couldn't ignore this calling any longer :-).

Besides, I missed you guys.

Best,

Al

----------
> From:
CarBurCo@aol.com
> To: atims@minn.net
> Subject: Re: Issue: Who was
John/Job Portis/Porthress of Va? or NC?
> Date: Tuesday, November 25, 1997
8:12 AM
>
> Poythresses and all variations including Portis:
>
> THIS
IS MY CURRENT ISSUE:
>
> My ancestors, Captain Richard Ransom and
KESIAH PORTIS/PORTHRESS, etc
(b.
> 1763, Franklin County, NC m. 1784 in
Halifax Co., NC; d. Oct. 10, 1841 in
> Murphreesboro, Rutherford Co.,
Tennessee.): WHO WAS HER FATHER?
>
> CLUE: Among the informational
items sent to me by Robert Ransom who is
> also a descendant of theirs and
who has done a tremendous amount of
research
> on the Ransoms, is an
excerpt from BIBLE RECORDS -TOMBSTONE INSCRIPTIONS.
>
> (Sorry I don't
have the exact name of the book at the moment, but all
the
> facts on
Ransoms which I have been correct, as well as the wives names,
etc.
> )
>
Following a section entitled MEMORANDA IN VIRGINIA DARE BYRN'S BIBLE
>
(p336) is another section titled: RANSOM LINE (p337) we find
under
generation
> 4. The description of Capt. Richard's family and his
Rev. War service.
Then
> this:
> "After the revolution he move to North
Carolina and settled in Halifax
> County; MARRIED KEZZIAH PORTIS, DAUGHTER
OF JOB PORTIS (and here, Robert
> Ransom has noted the name is incorrect and
should be JOHN PORTIS) in
1784."
>
>
> NO more is said about this
JOB/JOHN PORTIS (same family referred to as
> Porthress in NC records).
>

> Does anyone have a clue WHICH JOHN PORTIS this North Carolinian
might
be
> ?(Franklin or Halifax Co?) or maybe he, like Richard Ransom,
is
originally
> from Virginia?
>
> So that is my continuing interest.
Any help out there? I am guessing he
was
> born in say the 1740s going by
his daughter Kezziah/Kesiah's birthdate of
> 1763.
>
> CAROLINE BURNETT
COOK
> 6th gen granddaughter of Kezziah Portis		11/26/1997 8:34:57
Re: Early English researchAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: > Possible I suppose -- since we believe his daughter, Jane Poythress,
married Thomas Rolfe -- son of Pocahontas and John Rolfe.

> What you mean "we" kemo sabe. > Craig

Oops. I guess I should have said "some folks make the unproven claim
without so much as a single scrap of documented evidence" that Jane
Poythress married Thomas Rolfe . Geez, with Barbara Poythress Neal
and Craig Scott looking over my shoulder, I can't get away with anything
:-). I love it!

In any event -- there be a mystery out there for us to solve.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Al Tims
----------
> From: Craig R. Scott
> To: Albert R. Tims
> Subject: Re: Early English research
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 12:53 PM
>
> Possible I suppose -- since we
> >believe his daughter, Jane Poythress, married Thomas Rolfe -- son of
> >Pocahontas and John Rolfe.
>
> What you mean "we" kemo sabe.
>
> Craig		11/26/1997 9:12:25
Re: Early English researchKen PooleHi all, and I want thank you guys for the fine rhetoric.

You might have added; the entire thing first came to light of day from the
quill of no less that Judge John Robertson, who was ordered by God in a
clear voice in old bible English, to write the genealogy of Pocahontas.

We know that much about this genealogy (for a fact). Tomorrow is Turkey
Day, have a nice Thanksgiving. Ken

At 10:12 PM 11/26/97 -0600, Albert R. Tims wrote:
>Poythress List,
>
>Re: > Possible I suppose -- since we believe his daughter, Jane Poythress,
>married Thomas Rolfe -- son of Pocahontas and John Rolfe.
>
> > What you mean "we" kemo sabe. > Craig
>
>Oops. I guess I should have said "some folks make the unproven claim
>without so much as a single scrap of documented evidence" that Jane
>Poythress married Thomas Rolfe . Geez, with Barbara Poythress Neal
>and Craig Scott looking over my shoulder, I can't get away with anything
>:-). I love it!
>
>In any event -- there be a mystery out there for us to solve.
>
>Happy Thanksgiving,
>
>Al Tims
>----------
>> From: Craig R. Scott
>> To: Albert R. Tims
>> Subject: Re: Early English research
>> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 12:53 PM
>>
>> Possible I suppose -- since we
>> >believe his daughter, Jane Poythress, married Thomas Rolfe -- son of
>> >Pocahontas and John Rolfe.
>>
>> What you mean "we" kemo sabe.
>>
>> Craig
>
>		11/26/1997 9:44:39
Early English researchAl,
You really do put some tough questions.
We are racking our brains to come up with some sensible suggestions.
Maurice is going to contact the National Maritime Museum to try to
ascertain whether they have information on the ships you mention.
However, this may prove to be of no use at all.
There may be answers at the Public Record Office, Bristol Record Office
or Gloucester Record Office but it will be some time before we can visit
these.
In it's day Gloucester was an important port in it's own right but we
don't know how big it was in the 1600s. We think it went out of favour
as ships got larger in the late 1800s.
If we come up with anything of interest, we will let you know - but
don't hold your breath!

Regards,
Pat & Maurice		11/26/1997 9:53:20
Re: CALL FOR CURRENT INTEREST STATEMENTSMy current Poythress interest is to determine if a John Wall who married Ann
Poythress in Virginia is the father of John Wall of Anson County, NC. I know
that the latter John Wall moved from Virginia to Anson County, in the same
area of the former John Wall, and I know that the name Poythress has been
used by the descendants of the latter John Wall.

Steve Wall

11/26/1997 11:43:57
Current InterestJAMES L. POOLENothing like a couple of Poythress "wannabes"... It appears that
Steve Wall and I are cousins, and share a common quandary and
interest.

I believe that, indeed, John Wall of NC was the son of John Wall,
Sr., of Brunswick Co., VA, and that the younger John Wall was married
to Ann Poythress. I know that his wife's name was Ann, and I believe
she was a Poythress based upon the occurrence of the name Poythress
in the childrens' names of succeeding generations. Steve, my
detailed conjectures and supporting evidence -- but not proof -- is
documented in my Wall family information which is available through
the Poythress web site (on the allied family page). As an
alternative, I will be happy to send you the file if you would like.

But my most pressing question is which Ann Poythress married John
Wall, Jr. To the group, I'll pose the question as:

Has anyone found a positive trace, or even good conjecture, regarding
the fates of the two Ann Poythress (cousins) who seem to have
disappeared into the oblivion: 1) Ann Poythress, daughter of John
Poythress (c. 1650 - c. 1724) and Mary ???, and 2) Ann Poythress,
daughter of Joshua Poythress (c. 1660 - 1739) and ????. Both Anns
were named in the wills of their fathers (so they did exist), and
both were apparently unmarried at the time the wills were written.
[The latter is the one that I believe is most likely to have married
John Wall, Jr., but the theory is weak.]

Lou Poole		11/27/1997 10:06:09
Wedding InvitationsCharles NealBPW,

What great news that the invitations arrived, and that you will be
photographing them for us all to see. Good job on your part, to persuade
their previous holder to get them here!

I'm curious -- do you also have the outside envelope showing whether the
invitations were mailed or hand-delivered? If mailed, does it list a
return address & to whom & where were they mailed?

Thanks for the birthday greetings. My 50th on Sunday was pretty quiet
since Charles has been sick with the flu, but we had planned to celebrate
last night (Weds) anyway since Dawn & Misty & Aaron (M's boyfriend of about
6 yrs) were arriving from San Francisco Weds. noon. It was nice.

Happy Thanksgiving to you & to all. Gotta run
BPN		11/27/1997 10:08:54
Re: Poythress Entry - Florida militia muster rolls, Seminole Indian warsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: Semiole Indian wars.

My quick response is based on some tidbits from the following source.
Looks like the short answer to the "when" question Barbara asks is --
mid-1830s. Although, if we are looking at the first format conflict we'd
be back in the 1817-1818 period.

Gee, I hope this proves to be a useful lead.

http://www.dos.state.fl.us/flafacts/semwar.html

The First Seminole War
   Back when Britain controlled Florida, the British often incited
Seminoles against American settlers who were migrating south into Seminole
territory. These old conflicts, combined with the safe-haven Seminoles
provided black slaves, caused the U.S. army to attack the tribe in the
First Seminole War (1817-1818), which took place in Florida and southern
Georgia. Forces under Gen. Andrew Jackson quickly defeated the Seminoles.

The Second Seminole War
   The Treaty of Payne's Landing, signed by a small number of Seminoles in
May 1832, required Indians to give up their Florida lands within three
years and move west. When the U.S. Army arrived in 1835 to enforce the
treaty, the Indians were ready for war.

   In 1842, a nominal end to the hostilities arrived, though no peace
treaty was ever signed. By this time most Seminoles had been moved from
Florida, relocated to Indian Territory today's Oklahoma.

The Third Seminole War
   A Third Seminole War broke out in 1855, when conflicts -- largely over
land -- arose between whites and some Seminoles who remained in Florida.
Constant military patrols and rewards for the capture of Indians reduced
the Seminole population to about 200 when the Third Seminole War ended in
1858.

----------
> From: Charles Neal
> Subject: Poythress Entry - Florida militia muster rolls, Seminole Indian
wars
> Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 1:23 PM
>
> Al,
>
> I'll bite: Can you refresh our memories about what span of years the
> Seminole Indian wars covered? Then if the time frame fits in with the
> little Florida Poythress info I have, I could more intelligently address
> whether any of these are the same as men I already have info on.
> Thanks,
> BPN		11/28/1997 1:39:01
LA Poythress Cemetery RecordsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Helene Pockrus sent us the following. Helene was a lively contributor to
our list for a number of months -- until it became clear that Pockrus
showed no promise of being a Poythress variant spelling. Helene remains a
wonderful watcher for Poythress entries. Below is an excellent example of
the gems she routinely turns for us.

Best,
Al Tims

Hope the following helps someone.
This cemetery was surveyed on 26 April 1997. Surveyed to keep families
together. I got this in a periodical I receive. Any further questions, I
will gladly answer, although I am neither a Poythress or a board member any
longer.
Happy Holidays to you all. Especially Barb, Maynard and AL.

Helene, a Pockrus ,who is now chasing Parcus names.

Doesn't anyone ever see the names Pockrus or Parcus?

Arthur W. Poythress 5 June 1889-27 July 1978
Eva Roach Poythress 11 November 1892 - 2 Sep 1983(Double stone) lots of
Roach graves nearby)

xxxxxxx

Margaret Poythress
Emmit Poythress 1- June 1888-6 April 1910
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
William W. Poythress 2 Sept 1859-27 Jan 1920

James M. Poythress 1867-1921- double stone with below)
Carrie E Poythress 1870-1965
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Emma Poythress 3 Fevb 1891 10 April 1993 (double stone)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx		11/28/1997 4:19:22
Re: Organization and AnalysisKen PooleThanks BNP, So let us all stop this before it gets out of hand. I freely
admit to making a bit of fun of this. No harm intended nor anything personal.

So, let's all get more serious about this. Some charactor in this century,
makes a card file, and we act like it is the Holy Map of genealogy. No
magic, no cards, no file can replace logic. Nor can someone else's
collection of what I see clearly to be "secondary sources", replace our
search for "primary" sources.

Primary sources are documents of the nature of; gravesite evidence, deeds,
wills, court records, family bibles, old letters of known extraction, etc.
Information of this type is said to be of a higher quality.

Secondary sources are what someone has "concluded" from his search. Our
work is to find "primary sources", and document. Secondary sources are said
to be of a lower quality information. Friend Ken

At 02:33 PM 11/28/97 -0500, Charles Neal wrote:
>11-28-97
>
>Re Lyn P Baird's message about how to organize & analyze: I have no
>answers at this point. A great friend & methodical person has promised to
>help develop a database tool, using Microsoft ACCESS that should help, but
>that friend is not available to devote the necessary time to working on it
>for another month or so. If we come up with a workable-helpable tool, I'll
>give you folks more details later.
>
>BPN
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/28/1997 5:38:17
Poythress Entry - Florida militia muster rolls, Seminole Indian warsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Found the following Poythress reference. Has this been researched by any
of you? My memory may be (IS) faulty on the Florida Poythress research.

Best,

Al Tims

"Florida militia muster rolls, Seminole Indian wars," published in St.
Augustine, Florida
by the Florida Department of Military Affairs. THIS IS AN INDEX. THE
NUMBERS AFTER EACH NAME INDICATE THE VOLUME AND PAGE NUMBERS.

The set is available at the State Library of Florida in the Government
Documents section, as well as at the Indian River County Main Library in
Vero Beach, Florida. Check the homepages of Florida libraries at
http://www.dos.state.fl.us/fgils/fl_lib.htm to see if the books are at a
library near you.

Portheus, William T
2nd Lt, 07:015-16
Porthress, Wm T
2nd Lt, 07:019-20
Porthryss, James
Pvt, 07:019-20
Porthyrs, William
2nd Lt, 02:074-75
Portress, William
Pvt, 07:023-24		11/28/1997 10:39:46
POYTHRESS GRAVE MARKERS: DEMASCUS CHURCH CEMETERY, CHAPEL HILL, NCAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I stumbled across the following cemetery record with Poythress entries. I
have no clue as to where these folks fit into the Poythress genealogy.
These entries appear to be marker inscriptions. Perhaps something will
connect with one of you. Please let us know if this proves true.

Best,

Al Tims

DEMASCUS CHURCH CEMETERY
522 DEMASCUS ROAD
CHAPEL HILL, ORANGE COUNTY
NORTH CAROLINA

Original Wall Built 1874-1878 by the Church Mason, Ruffin and John Cannada.
Wall rebuilt by E.W. Neville and cemetery friends Sept. 1949. Contractor
John
Campbell.

C.W. Poythress May 25, 1920 July 20, 1944

Creola Poytress Freeland November 14, 1890 November 12, 1962

John W. Poythress Oct. 29, 1888 Jan. 14, 1922

Nancy Josephine Daniel wife of Robert Lee Poythress May 13, 1861 Sept. 26,
1920
Her memory is blessed

Robert Lee Poythress Died Jan. 17, 1914 Age 49 years
An honest man's thy noblest work of God
Go on dear father take thy rest God called thee home He knew best

Permelia S. Poythress Dec. 30, 1843 Sept. 10, 1918
Gone but not forgotten

POYTHRESS
Ola S. Nov. 25, 1880 Aug. 9, 1936
Simeon E. Nov. 17, 1867 Mar. 12, 1952
(one stone)

Poythress Whitney F. Dec. 12, 1900 May 21, 1982

Lillie M. Sept. 13, 1902 Mar. 4, 1991

POYTHRESS
Robert Furman Apr. 30, 1892 Dec. 2, 1957
Ila Barnes Dec. 6, 1892 March 5, 1985
(one stone)

POYTHRESS
Lela Mann May 4, 1919 July 25, 1978
Robert Lee July 4, 1918 March 1, 1995
(one stone)		11/28/1997 11:01:16
Rev O.D. POYTHRESS, pastor of the South Norfolk Christian Church.Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Another random information tidbit :-).

An index of marriage records for the Norfolk, VA area turned up multiple
references to Rev. O.D. Poythress. The earliest marriage performed by Rev.
Poythress (that I see indexed) starts in 1933 and the latest is in the mid
1960s. I'm betting that Barbara Poythress Neal might know where Rev.
Poythress fits. It might be worth exploring if the South Norfolk Christian
Church has further information on his background or family history.
Probably a long shot, but who knows were our next insight might arise.

Best,

Al Tims		11/28/1997 11:09:59
Re: Batte Info as Current Interest StmtsCharles Neal11-28-97
Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving & is enjoying lots of Day-After,
today.

Recently, Ken Poole wrote me inquiring whether Batte had published his
material, and asking basically who Batte was. I replied: >>As far as I
know, R. Bolling Batte was "only" a genealogical researcher -- >much like
you and me. He did, thank goodness, try to give the sources for everything
he put down, and he did do his fantastic Chart A with accompanying
numerous-page notes of explanations, which is available for researchers in
the Library of VA Archives and in the VA Historical Society, and for those
of us on the Poythress List, copies are available from Maynard. Cheers,
BPN <<

Now Ken has responded to me, in a message which he captioned " Re: Call for
Current Interest Statements" >> OK, I'm sold , what do I do to get it
organized? Who knows, he may have something I don't in the way of sources.
Ken <<

I interpret his response as indicating that he, too, would be interested in
us working on completing the Batte-Chart's format for more Poythress people
of way-back-when.

It occurred to me that in addition to the original Chart itself (which
Maynard has copies of, and will gladly snail-mail to folks), it would help
him (& others) to also have a copy of the accompanying Batte notes. Those
accompanying notes are up on the website.

However, regarding Ken's question of "What do I do to get it organized?" I
don't have any great answer. Lyn Poythress Baird's recently accomplished
magnificent spreadsheet organized the Batte information that is on Batte's
cards at the Library of VA.

Lyn, having worked your way thru creating that, what would be your advice
on perhaps using the spreadsheet to organize additional info that we can
"compile" together?

Others: What do you think about how to proceed?

Thanks, folks --
BPN		11/28/1997 11:53:55
Thankful for AncestorsCharles Neal11-28-97
Listers, this came in from Helene Pockrus, and I knew you'd enjoy reading
it. It's great.
BPN
>> It's the networking and the sharing of stories of "FAMILY" that makes
it all worth while. The following if from a message I
received on the net this morning and I cannot help but share it with each
of you. May each of you be blessed with health, happiness, enjoyment of
family and friends this holiday season. See you on the net! Helene and
Tex
>
>
Giving Thanks: Our Ancestors....How Much We Love Them

While doing research on my family lines, I have come to notice the age of
the people of this country. The life span seemed to be fairly short. The
majority of the people that I see as heads of the household are from 23to
45. There are very few in their 60's and 70's. During the ten to twelve
years before the Civil War our country seemed to be what we consider today
as "young adults" as head of a household. Before that the lives of these
people were extremely busy with land, farming and raising their families
and this was taking it's toll on the young men and women of that time
because it was unbearably hard work for the farmers and their families.
The people that were able to buy land and invest and be active in the
business end of society were marking off their days on this earth as was
the farmer and his wife were without even knowing it. Life itself was
taking it's toll of these bright, diligent, energetic people. They, for
the most part would all be dead before they reached the age of 50. For an
eager nation to grow it took
many miles of road, tunnels, ore, railroads, food, crops for clothing,
livestock, trees, oil and so many other natural resources and various
occupations to supply the needs of it's people. They lived hard lives,
even if it was with a suit of clothes and a tie, shirts with fancy cuffs
and collars or rough-woven durable fabric for the laborers of various
trades and livelyhoods, the pace was hard and fast and worrysome. Most of
those that you see listed in the census reports in their 60's, 70's or 80's
through the 1860 census, were just stronger, healthier and blessed with
longer lives.

After the Civil War there were fewer young men on the census reports. Most
were in their 40s and 50s, some maimed, some crippled, some blind and many
that were strong and healthy in 1861, were spent in the few years that the
war lasted. They came home old men in the conditions of their bodies and
many never regained their health to support their families by being able to
carry the whole load of maintaining their farms or trades. The sons of
those men learned early how to till and seed the ground, when to harvest,
how to manage the few dollars they had or how to present themselves to
borrow on next year's crop before they were 18 years old. The tradesmen
had an advantage over the farmer when it came to his sons being able to
carry on their work, crafty small hands learned quickly the art of making
clothes, shoes and sewing the leathers for boots, belts, vests, saddles
etc. before they were 12. But the farmer and the blacksmith and the
waggoneer and the lumberman had to hire help until their sons were strong
enough to maintain the balance of the load for their fathers. It was too
hard for an 8 year old to lift wheels, fell trees, use an anvil, and
control the horses and oxen and mules that were needed for those jobs.
However, their little minds of boys 5 and 6 years old when their fathers
came home from the war were keen and open and eager to learn. And learn
they did, just as fast and furiously as they could, and they did what they
could until their bodies caught up to their mental experience and were able
to put all their knowledge into practice.

Those young boys that had to learn from their older family members; uncles,
cousins, grandparents if they were still there for them, those were the
ones that had the hardest challenge.....their father's didn't come home,
their mother's couldn't hold up under the strain and the daughters had to
pitch in and learn the art of making bread, churning, cooking, cleaning,
washing, ironing, sewing . . . whatever it took to be there beside their
brother or brothers if they were lucky enough to have them and keep the
family together and pushing on and on and on.

These wonderful people are our ancestors. These blessed, faithful, loving,
and yes, some have the occasional traits of hot tempered, sweaty, foul
mouthed...but they are our ancestors. These strong, weak, frail,
stubborn, rough skinned, white skinned, dark skinned, pampered or leathery
people are our ancestors. I am so proud of them. I love them so much. I
wish I could have known each and every one of them, touched them, listened
to them.....just stood in their shadow for a few minutes because I'll
guarantee you one thing, those shadows would have brought me to my knees
knowing how much it covered and what it meant to be a part of their family.

I have stood and am now standing on their land. I have seen and touched
their trees and their homes. I have smelled their old pipes and snuff
jars, their handbags, powder boxes and handkerchiefs. I have felt their
old pocket watches, their knives, dishes, tools, jewelry, combs and
brushes. I have tried my best to take in what is left of their presence
and there is one thing that makes me cry with joy that I can hold it in my
hand and smell the sweet smell of the years everytime I open or caress it,
it smells of leather and ink and age, but it's never dusty or used
up....it's always there with warmth and peace and love....it's their Bible.
The one piece of their lives that reaches generation after generation and
is more loved each time it's given to the next, it's the one part of them
that they couldn't live without, they couldn't read it, most of them, but
it was there and they knew what it was saying, they had learned that
through the years from their parents and their parents before them. Aren't
ancestors marvelous. They make us
who we are; a mixture of proof that they had made their mark on the land
and it can never be erased. Thanksgiving, yes I give
thanks.....everyday.		11/28/1997 11:54:02
Re: Rolfe MarriageCharles NealAl, glad that Craig caught you on that one, since I was off doing the
turkey < G >

BPN

11/28/1997 11:54:05
Rev O.D. POYTHRESS, pastor of the South Norfolk Christian Church.Charles Neal11-18-97

Al,
This is the first I recall hearing of Rev. O. D. Poythress. BPW may know
how he fits in, since she had a cousin &/or uncle in the Tidewater area of
VA about that time-frame. How about it, Barbara -- Do you know anything
about him?

BPN		11/28/1997 12:23:22
Poythress Entry - Florida militia muster rolls, Seminole Indian warsCharles NealAl,

I'll bite: Can you refresh our memories about what span of years the
Seminole Indian wars covered? Then if the time frame fits in with the
little Florida Poythress info I have, I could more intelligently address
whether any of these are the same as men I already have info on.
Thanks,
BPN

11/28/1997 12:23:25
Organization and AnalysisCharles Neal11-28-97

Re Lyn P Baird's message about how to organize & analyze: I have no
answers at this point. A great friend & methodical person has promised to
help develop a database tool, using Microsoft ACCESS that should help, but
that friend is not available to devote the necessary time to working on it
for another month or so. If we come up with a workable-helpable tool, I'll
give you folks more details later.

BPN		11/28/1997 12:33:18
Re: Poythress Entry - Florida militia muster rolls, Seminole Indian warsCharles Neal11-29-97

Without yet having any way to see beyond the index, to see when he actually
served in the Seminole Indian Wars (which Al notes extended from 1817 until
1858) it is CONCEIVABLE that the JAMES PORTHRYSS (yet another spelling of
the last name! ) in the index list that Al posted from the Florida Militia
Rolls of the Seminole Indian Wars, could be the same James Poythress who I
found in FL:

James Poythress is listed in __Florida Land: Records of the Tallahassee and
Newnansville General Land Office, 1825-1892__ by Alvie Davidson (Bowie, MD:
Heritage Books, 1989). He got land on January 9, 1846 in Gadsden County,
GA (west of Tallahassee, in the panhandle). I have not been successful in
learning anything further about this James, except that he would probably
be identical to James P. Poythress, who helped form the Washington Lodge #2
of the Masons, in Quincy, FL (which is also Gadsden Co), in January of
1828.

The Washington Lodge #2, according to David A. Avant, Jr's __Illustrated
Index to J. Randall Stanley's History of Gadsden County [Florida] 1948__ (
Tallahassee: L'Avant Studios, 1985), was organized in 1828 "under a special
dispensation granted by the Grand Lodge of the State of GA." So apparently
it was begun by 14 (listed) Masons (including James P. Poythress) who had
apparently come down to FL from Georgia, They first met on 24th of Jan
1828. The helpful Mason there in Quincy who searched for me thru all
their available info, could come up with no further info about James.

The land records I believe also had no further info about James (Help me
out here, BPW: we got what non-helpful info the land file contained,
didn't we?)

Could one of our Poythress-Listers who reside in FL please check the actual
reference to James Porthryss in their local library, and see WHEN he
appeared on the muster rolls, and any further info about him that might be
in the reference? Sure would appreciate it. The index listing that Al
posted showed:
Porthryss, James
Pvt, 07: 019-20
which means the 7th volume, pgs 19-20 of __Florida Militia Muster Rolls,
Seminole Indian Wars__ by the FL Dept of Military Affairs (St. Augustine)

I have not seen, before the index listing, any William or William T.
Poythress of any spelling including any of the Portheus/ Porthress/
Porthyrs/ Portress spellings from the index listing. If our P-Lister
could also advise of Wm's dates & any further info, it would likewise be
greatly appreciated.

Barbara Poythress Neal (BPN)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 3:41:48
LA Poythress Cemetery RecordsCharles NealAl,

From the subject-line, it appears that these Poythress graves Helene saw
were from a cemetery in probably Louisiana (or Los Angeles?). Did she
include any city/town or further location-info?

Thanks
BPN

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====

11/29/1997 3:41:51
Re: Organization and AnalysisCharles Neal11-29-97

I find your tone, Ken Poole, very difficult to understand at times. At
those times when you are intending to be teasing or humorous, I for one
would really appreciate seeing a smiley-face or a (for "grin") to
indicate so. Perhaps you don't realize that when such an indication is not
present, at times you give the impression that you are extremely
irritated for some reason that folks find difficult to grasp.

Re your comment:
> So let us all stop this before it gets out of hand. I freely admit to
making a bit of fun of this. No harm intended nor anything
> personal. So, let's all get more serious about this. Some charactor in
this century, makes a card file, and we act like it is the
> Holy Map of genealogy. No magic, no cards, no file can replace logic.
Nor can someone else's collection of what I see
> clearly to be "secondary sources", replace our search for "primary"
sources.
>
>Primary sources are documents of the nature of; gravesite evidence, deeds,
wills, court records, family bibles, old letters
> of known extraction, etc. Information of this type is said to be of a
higher quality.
>
> Secondary sources are what someone has "concluded" from his search. Our
work is to find "primary sources", and
> document. Secondary sources are said to be of a lower quality
information. Friend Ken

We all agree that primary sources are essential. I, and numerous others on
this List, ARE indeed trying to search out, AND to organize, original
sources of info.

However, we are certainly appreciative of people (like Batte and like
numerous compilers & authors whose works are in print) who have previously
FOUND primary sources, and who have left us clues on where to re-find them.
It would be stupid to ignore such pointers/clues in secondary sources.

Our discussions re the Batte info were intended for use in such a vein, as
was the discussion that Lyn Baird & I were having about how to organize
pointers/clues to original &/or primary source information.

BPN

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data Cooperative. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/		11/29/1997 3:41:58
Va. Militia in 17th CenturyFor those of you familiar with the L. S. U. press in Baton Rouge, couple of
facts are known. First, if you ever buy a book, you stay on their mailing
list at least 20 years by my count. Second, they publish great stuff
majoring in War for Southern Independence and minoring in colonial America.

I am just finishing up one of their real gems: The Virginia Militia in the
Seventeenth Century by William L. Shea published in 1983. Since said date
the thing has been lingering on my "to read" shelf. I'm not THAT far behind,
its just that something always seemed more appealing...even though it was
only 160 pages or so and could obviously be knocked out in a few hours.

The book is worth a tout for a few points:

1) historical background of Francis' time. By the time Francis got there (if
it WAS
1633), the English and the Powhatan Confederacy had been engaged constantly
in murder retail and wholesale since the 1607 arrival. The confederacy was
about mopped up by the time of Francis' arrival and was no longer a
significant threat....the days of murdering 2 or 3 hundred settlers at a
crack were over. As for the remaining Indians, it probably would have been
difficult to get 2 or 3 hundred of them together at one time to do any damage
to. I realize the Cavaliers weren't the Roundheads but I still had been
under the impression that Virginians and the native population agreed every
now and then, maybe even long enough for a Thanksgiving dinner. Not so
according to Mr. Shea's fairly comprehensive history. The implication I draw
is that we should not read heroics on any great scale into the accounts of
Peter, et al. The heavy lifting had mostly already been done.

2) History readers correctly tend to think of militia as semi-organized mobs
of farmers without much value in a military sense. Not so the Virginia
militia after the first ten years. After all Virginia was a "company", not a
"colony"....these guys had profits to protect. Training was organized,
intense, and had a sound tactical basis.
From the view of both sides, treaties were merely devices to gain a temporary
advantage until the strategy had been developed to completely wipe out the
other side, literally.

3) both the footnotes and the bibliography are wonderful laundry lists of
further
reading material on this and related colonia Virginia subjects.

Finally, I'll have to admit its not cricket to tout a book "out of
print"....but
Amazon.com will back order it for you and get it "used" within month or two
if you are interested. And as a further plus, Amazon.com understands, as few
booksellers do, that when the customer is looking for a "used" book, that
doesn't imply "rare" book when it comes time to do the pricing. Also, as a
long shot, LSU might have a few copies left....they tend to keep stuff on
hand for ages.

Maynard

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 5:13:14
Re: Organization and AnalysisKen PooleSorry about the tone, I believed the whole thing to be tongue in cheek,
until I got the bit about organization. No flames from me. I wish you and I
had put a (grin) in the thing. I have no hang ups, and this is a good
list. And active. However, not one bit has came across on either Hancock
connections or Bolling connections, so I will unsubscribe.

If I see some thing on Poythress that you all may need, I will try to get
it to one of you. I'm not quitting, it's that right now I am working
several families at once anyway. My own efforts (in this lineage) has been
to document connections, not to connect people, and this is turning out to
be a problem of its own. Ken

At 05:41 PM 11/29/97 -0500, Charles Neal wrote:
>11-29-97
>
>I find your tone, Ken Poole, very difficult to understand at times. At
>those times when you are intending to be teasing or humorous, I for one
>would really appreciate seeing a smiley-face or a (for "grin") to
>indicate so. Perhaps you don't realize that when such an indication is not
>present, at times you give the impression that you are extremely
>irritated for some reason that folks find difficult to grasp.
>
>Re your comment:
>> So let us all stop this before it gets out of hand. I freely admit to
>making a bit of fun of this. No harm intended nor anything
>> personal. So, let's all get more serious about this. Some charactor in
>this century, makes a card file, and we act like it is the
>> Holy Map of genealogy. No magic, no cards, no file can replace logic.
>Nor can someone else's collection of what I see
>> clearly to be "secondary sources", replace our search for "primary"
>sources.
>>
>>Primary sources are documents of the nature of; gravesite evidence, deeds,
>wills, court records, family bibles, old letters
>> of known extraction, etc. Information of this type is said to be of a
>higher quality.
>>
>> Secondary sources are what someone has "concluded" from his search. Our
>work is to find "primary sources", and
>> document. Secondary sources are said to be of a lower quality
>information. Friend Ken
>
>We all agree that primary sources are essential. I, and numerous others on
>this List, ARE indeed trying to search out, AND to organize, original
>sources of info.
>
>However, we are certainly appreciative of people (like Batte and like
>numerous compilers & authors whose works are in print) who have previously
>FOUND primary sources, and who have left us clues on where to re-find them.
> It would be stupid to ignore such pointers/clues in secondary sources.
>
>Our discussions re the Batte info were intended for use in such a vein, as
>was the discussion that Lyn Baird & I were having about how to organize
>pointers/clues to original &/or primary source information.
>
>BPN
>
>
>==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data
Cooperative. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please visit
http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 5:22:34
Re: Batte Chart BWilliam A BridgforthCurrent Interest Statement: "Let's make Batte Chart B !!!"

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data Cooperative. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/		11/29/1997 5:25:28
Re: Va. Militia in 17th CenturyKen PooleHi all, I enjoyed this, but it's not history. The Indians made their last
great stand in the 1640s. Opechancanoughs' (Ope here after) the brother of
Powhatan... made his last stand then. Ope was carried in his special chair,
from which he had directed an attack, down to the English community, and
there, in his 80s or some say 90's was shot in the back by an English
soldier. Ope was nearly blind, with dropping eyelids, which his braves
helped him to keep open.

Several Forts were built in this time frame to deal with this war. Fort
James, was given to Thomas Rolfe to own, in 1646, after the war. Ope was
his uncle. Ken

At 07:13 PM 11/29/97 -0500, VKRatliff@aol.com wrote:
>For those of you familiar with the L. S. U. press in Baton Rouge, couple of
>facts are known. First, if you ever buy a book, you stay on their mailing
>list at least 20 years by my count. Second, they publish great stuff
>majoring in War for Southern Independence and minoring in colonial America.
>
>I am just finishing up one of their real gems: The Virginia Militia in the
>Seventeenth Century by William L. Shea published in 1983. Since said date
>the thing has been lingering on my "to read" shelf. I'm not THAT far behind,
>its just that something always seemed more appealing...even though it was
>only 160 pages or so and could obviously be knocked out in a few hours.
>
>The book is worth a tout for a few points:
>
>1) historical background of Francis' time. By the time Francis got there (if
>it WAS
>1633), the English and the Powhatan Confederacy had been engaged constantly
>in murder retail and wholesale since the 1607 arrival. The confederacy was
>about mopped up by the time of Francis' arrival and was no longer a
>significant threat....the days of murdering 2 or 3 hundred settlers at a
>crack were over. As for the remaining Indians, it probably would have been
>difficult to get 2 or 3 hundred of them together at one time to do any damage
>to. I realize the Cavaliers weren't the Roundheads but I still had been
>under the impression that Virginians and the native population agreed every
>now and then, maybe even long enough for a Thanksgiving dinner. Not so
>according to Mr. Shea's fairly comprehensive history. The implication I draw
>is that we should not read heroics on any great scale into the accounts of
>Peter, et al. The heavy lifting had mostly already been done.
>
>2) History readers correctly tend to think of militia as semi-organized mobs
>of farmers without much value in a military sense. Not so the Virginia
>militia after the first ten years. After all Virginia was a "company", not a
>"colony"....these guys had profits to protect. Training was organized,
>intense, and had a sound tactical basis.
>>From the view of both sides, treaties were merely devices to gain a
temporary
>advantage until the strategy had been developed to completely wipe out the
>other side, literally.
>
>3) both the footnotes and the bibliography are wonderful laundry lists of
>further
>reading material on this and related colonia Virginia subjects.
>
>Finally, I'll have to admit its not cricket to tout a book "out of
>print"....but
>Amazon.com will back order it for you and get it "used" within month or two
>if you are interested. And as a further plus, Amazon.com understands, as few
>booksellers do, that when the customer is looking for a "used" book, that
>doesn't imply "rare" book when it comes time to do the pricing. Also, as a
>long shot, LSU might have a few copies left....they tend to keep stuff on
>hand for ages.
>
>Maynard
>
>
>==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>
>
>
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 6:02:37
Re: Lyn Baird's SpreadsheetCharles Neal11-29-97

Lyn,

Success. Went in as you suggested & started over on copying the info into
Excel. This time it worked properly. As far as your original instructions
went, I'll give the following input in case it helps anyone else:

- It is not necessary in my computer's setup to use the Notepad as an
intermediary step in either place where you recommended it (i.e. your steps
# 1 and # 11)

- Your step #12, in my version of Excel is no longer done by hitting
"Paste" but rather done by using "File: open" and naming the file.

- I also found that by using the "Small Fonts" and setting the size of the
small fonts on "7" that I had only 6 sheets initially. Then I added a few
strategically-placed extra rows, and in the "Comments" column moved parts
of the longer comments to the second row of the same column. That way I
got the spreadsheet down to only 3 pages of 8.5"x11" landscape sheets.

Thanks again for all your work on getting an easily readable & workable
format created for the information.
BPN

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 6:58:14
Re: Organization and AnalysisCharles Neal11-29-97

Ken,

Hope I did not upset you; I was not intending to, but was just puzzled.
Appreciate your further explanation. Best wishes to you in further
documenting your Hancock and Bolling connections. I'll be glad to forward
on to you any input we should receive regarding those families if you would
like for me to, recognizing that sometime folks who pop in here with such
questions or comments don't readily mention to us their sources.

Appreciate your willingness to point Poythress info back to us.

Again - best wishes in your research.

BPN

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 7:17:56
Re: LA Poythress Cemetery RecordsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: BPN's question about location of LA cemetery records. I'm positive
Helene's information is for Louisiana. Checking the original post, I find
that I forwarded all the information she provided. I'll ask for a specific
location and get back.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
> From: Charles Neal
> To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: LA Poythress Cemetery Records
> Date: Saturday, November 29, 1997 4:41 PM
>
> Al,
>
> >From the subject-line, it appears that these Poythress graves Helene saw
> were from a cemetery in probably Louisiana (or Los Angeles?). Did she
> include any city/town or further location-info?
>
> Thanks
> BPN
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 9:03:40
Va. Militia In 17th Cen.Thanks for the comments, Ken....I think maybe I "oversold" that thing....I
guess I should have said Shea's point was not that there weren't
for-the-record "attacks" and "wars" still going on (and not that a guy
couldn't still get killed) but that the "macro" outcome was by that time
pretty much a foregone conclusion. Ope may have been "leading attacks" but
they sounded to me as if his chances were a lot like John Bell Hood's at
Nashville.

But Shea is the ONLY thing I have read on the subject so if you have
distilled yours from several sources I'd be interested in hearing more. That
place and time frame with respect to military operations and Indian relations
is all brand new to me.
And if you have off the top of your head the name of a decent text that is
fairly comprehensive on the subject and that you would recommend, let me know
that too, would you?

Thanks.

Maynard

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====

11/29/1997 9:05:57
Numbering SystemHey, gang, since we are already into using Mr. Batte's numbering system (at
least with respect to his specific information) is their any kind of
consensus within our group about:

1) what IS a good numbering system? (Batte's sure seems appealingly simple to
me). And if we don't already have a "system" (i. e. embedded in various
software programs that differ among members) anything wrong with using
Batte's?

2) if one is going to start inputting into a new version of a software
genealogy program, how does one handle "the numbers"?.....or does the
particular program usually do this for you depending on its own proprietary
"mechanics"?

3) wouldn't it be extremely helpful to us all if we had a common numbering
system
and could thereby refer to individuals for each other using a common
"language"....or is this simply too clunky because we have several software
systems around the horn and thereby have several numbering systems?

4) and for a real leap into never-never land, what are the implications of
trying to get us all on a common software program?. To be sure, thats easy
for ME to ask because I'm mulling a new one anyway.....major problems might
be posed for other members. However, I know that Al and Lyn and (I think BPN)
are all on Family Tree Maker. And if one reads FTM's advertisements and
lists of awards and claims of being the program of choice for 6 of 7
genealogists (or some number like that)...well, if I was guy # 7 I'd almost
be wanting to get in step with the rest of the world simply for compatability
purposes.

I ask the above about the numbering system in full realization that the
question may seemingly be premature.

Other than operating off of the Batte material, I think it would be fair to
say that we don't even have any common "structure" built yet. Given that
status, the question might be asked if we aren't going at it backwards.
Well, maybe, but it strikes me that if the numbers got "attached" to
individuals on an "as you go" basis a system would be much easier to work
with AS A GROUP.

I'm not even sure I got the question right, let alone offered a potential
answer....however, is this one that ought to be on the table for discussion?

Signed:

Confused (aka Maynard)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 9:06:08
Re: LA Poythress Cemetery RecordsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Further clarification on the LA (Louisiana) cemetery records provided by
Helene Pockrus. The location is the Jewella Cemetery, Shreveport, Caddo
Parish, LA.

Best,

Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====

11/29/1997 9:48:46
Re: Numbering SystemCraig R. ScottGee, now here is a subject that I can talk about for about three days. Being
the Clan Scott Genealogist and keeping track of over 2,000 different
unconnected progenitors and their descendants to the tune of 53,000 records
for twelve years is my experience. Being the President of the Association of
One-Name Studies means that I have had many conversations on this issue.

One has to remember that there are two types of numbering systems.

The first is publishing systems. My only recommendations are either the
Register System (used by The Register, New England Historical and
Genealgoical Society Quarterly) or the Modified Register System (used by the
National Genealogical Society Quarterly). When you publish, only use one of
these, any other choice demonstrates to the world that you are not willing
to accept reality.

The second type is working systems. These come in varing forms such as the
Batte system. My reccomendation is a family Code combined with the Modified
Henry System. That would mean that we would have to identify how many
progenitors we are dealing with. Francis would be family code "A" lets say
and his henry number would be 1. So a few generations of his descents would
look like:

A-1 Francis
A-11 Francis [first child of Francis]
A-12 John [second child of Francis]
A-13 Jane [third child of Francis]
A-14 Thomas [fourth child of Francis]
A-111 Francis [first child of the first child of Francis]
A-112 Anne [second ...]
A-113 Rebecca [third ...]
A-114 Thomas [fourth ...]
A-115 John [fifth ...]
A-121 John [first child of the second child of Francis]
A-122 David [second ...]
A-123 Christian [third ...]
etc.
had Jane Poythress married John Rolfe their daughter would be:
A-131

My Benjamin Poythress family could be:

B-1 Benjamin
B-11 Mary Ellen Poythress
B-111 Roland Roberts
B-1117 William Woody Roberts
B-11172 Ann Jacquline Roberts
B-111721 Craig Roberts Scott

The numbers only represent a relationship to the progentior.

This is a start. Comments.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/29/1997 10:01:06
Re: Va. Militia in 17th CenturyLea L. DowdAnyone.... I would love to know the source of Opechancanough being a
brother to Powhatan. According to my sources, he was born ca 1584 and
Powhatan was born ca 1543. It is also said that Opechancanough married the
daughter of Powhatan. The brother that I have for Powhatan is Opeechepan.

Just curious as to any "legal" sources on this one.

Regards,
Lea

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		11/30/1997 1:28:16
Re: Numbering SystemStarrHello everyone,
As a non-POYTHRESS descendant I should stay out of this numbering system
discussion, BUT what's wrong with birth/death dates and "son of" IF known or
"husband of" IF known to identify individuals -- at least until you get some
of the linkages from AL to GA to VA worked out? What happens when someone
several thought belonged to Family A two years down the road when another
researcher discovers he/she really belonged to family B -- wouldn't that
mess everyone's numbering system up?

I give to Craig his experience and dealing with several thousand
individuals requires more structure. But something similar is coming up
in my own TRAYLOR line. One researcher is planning to set up a database
(more power to him with future book down the road, probably by someone
else) but he wants everyone to send him their data within his particular
personal favorite numbering system -- which is different from anything I've
ever seen. I have neither the time or desire to learn it ... so will not be
as eager to send in my data to him -- or will soon before this thing gets
going. Sorry, I like to exchange data BUT one has to think about those
individuals who have problems with the genealogical numbering system. Here's
something that is working for me and "my" group of 60+ on-line researchers
and four snail of CLARK / MOORMAN and allied line researchers.

I arbitrarily "suggested" to everyone they use "Capt" Christopher Clark
each time they refer to the Christopher Clark (c1681-1754) to keep him
seperated from his several grandsons of the same name. (He was a militia
Capt. at some point in his life.) Similarly we have several Charles
MOORMANs.
I use Charles "M" to refer to the one born early 1680s d. c1755 since that is
his signature sign. For his son Charles, it's Charles m. Mary ADAMS and one
grandson is either "Charles, son of Achilles" or "Charles m. Mary Veneable"
depending on context.

I'll stay tuned to this discussion .. I think we'll all find something
of interest here ... Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Va. Militia in 17th CenturyAlbert R. TimsLea,

Great question. My main source, at the moment, for this relationship is a
book by noted historian, Carl Bridenbaugh, titled "Jamestown: 1544-1699"
published by Oxford University Press, 1980. I believe Bridenbaugh delves
into this topic more deeply in a subsequent 1981 book titled "Early
Americans" also published by Oxford University Press.

According to Bridenbaugh, Opechancanough was indeed the brother of
Powhatan, but he gives Opechancanough's birthrate as ca 1544. He also
provides an interesting account of Opechancanough being taken to Spain as a
young boy where he was educated by the Jesuits and given the name of Don
Luis. The account has him returning some years later and reverting back to
his native culture -- equipped with a keen understanding of European
thought, technology and motivations.

Bridenbaugh cites a number of academic sources for this account --
including a work titled "Chapters on the Ethnology of the Powhatan Tribes
of Virginia," Heye Foundation, Indian Notes and Monographs (New York,
1919). Moreover, he attempts to explain the source of confusion often
associated with the name Powhatan. In Bridenbaugh's account Opechancanough
is a far more significant "power behind the throne" during Powhatan's rule
than is often credited.

At least this is how events unfold in Bridenbaugh's account. I guess I
should add that Bridenbaugh isn't a lightweight. He is a former President
of the American Historical Association, served on the editorial board of
the American Historical Review, and held chaired professorships at Brown
University and at Berkeley. However, since this book is now more than 25
years old, it may well be that better information is available to us.

Just for clarity -- I'm not defending Bridenbaugh's account -- I'm merely
passing it along.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Lea L. Dowd
> To: VKRatliff@aol.com; POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com; Ken Poole

> Subject: Re: Va. Militia in 17th Century
> Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 2:28 PM
>
> Anyone.... I would love to know the source of Opechancanough being a
> brother to Powhatan. According to my sources, he was born ca 1584 and
> Powhatan was born ca 1543. It is also said that Opechancanough married
the
> daughter of Powhatan. The brother that I have for Powhatan is
Opeechepan.
>
> Just curious as to any "legal" sources on this one.
>
> Regards,
> Lea
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		11/30/1997 4:10:27
Re: Numbering SystemCraig R. Scott> As a non-POYTHRESS descendant I should stay out of this numbering system
>discussion, BUT what's wrong with birth/death dates and "son of" IF known or
>"husband of" IF known to identify individuals -- at least until you get some
>of the linkages from AL to GA to VA worked out? What happens when someone
>several thought belonged to Family A two years down the road when another
>researcher discovers he/she really belonged to family B -- wouldn't that
>mess everyone's numbering system up?

This is a problem that I love to deal with because it means that a
connection has been made between two families. Among Scotts is is a much
more common problem then it will be for us Poythresses, since I think we are
only currently dealing with seven progenitors.

First let me say that the modified Henry System is not my idea, my personal
numbering system or anything else other than after years of messing with the
Scotts I found it to be the most useful working-type (to differentiate it
from publishing-type) numbering system.

In the event that two different progenitors are found to be in fact a part
of the same family you just change the numbers. Fortunately you only have to
change the numbers on the front end of each person, because the
relationships don't really change, the number of generations from the new
progenitor do. [If you count the number of characters in the henry part of
the code it equals the number of generations removed from the progentior.]

So if B-1 is found to be the third child of F-163 then B-1 become F-1633.
B-1's chidren would have F-16331, F-16332, etc.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Va. Militia in 17th CenturyKen PooleHi to all, Having read your suggestion that the Spanish educated him I
will not comment on. However I can make some observations which are rather
self evident.

The timing of the second Indian Crusade to rid Virginia of Colonists did
coincide with troubles in England, which in fact saw the Crown topple.
Their timing suggests more knowledge of English affairs than we have given
them credit for.

Another is that I suspect the Indians have had a bad press right along. One
has to dig deep to find the information that in desperation "Ope" (which
ever one makes one happy) tryed to give, by law, the entire Country to
Thomas Rolfe. This was an effort to work within the frame work of a law
which would never work for them.

It was this time frame also, which saw the decision to take permanent
Prisoners of War. These Indians were sold into slavery down south in the
Islands, or given to soldiers as permanent slaves.

One ought to note this happened again in the Viet Nam conflict, when our
country refused to pay the money for the "other" prisoners we left over
there. Ken

At 05:10 PM 11/30/97 -0600, Albert R. Tims wrote:
>Lea,
>
>Great question. My main source, at the moment, for this relationship is a
>book by noted historian, Carl Bridenbaugh, titled "Jamestown: 1544-1699"
>published by Oxford University Press, 1980. I believe Bridenbaugh delves
>into this topic more deeply in a subsequent 1981 book titled "Early
>Americans" also published by Oxford University Press.
>
>According to Bridenbaugh, Opechancanough was indeed the brother of
>Powhatan, but he gives Opechancanough's birthrate as ca 1544. He also
>provides an interesting account of Opechancanough being taken to Spain as a
>young boy where he was educated by the Jesuits and given the name of Don
>Luis. The account has him returning some years later and reverting back to
>his native culture -- equipped with a keen understanding of European
>thought, technology and motivations.
>
>Bridenbaugh cites a number of academic sources for this account --
>including a work titled "Chapters on the Ethnology of the Powhatan Tribes
>of Virginia," Heye Foundation, Indian Notes and Monographs (New York,
>1919). Moreover, he attempts to explain the source of confusion often
>associated with the name Powhatan. In Bridenbaugh's account Opechancanough
>is a far more significant "power behind the throne" during Powhatan's rule
>than is often credited.
>
>At least this is how events unfold in Bridenbaugh's account. I guess I
>should add that Bridenbaugh isn't a lightweight. He is a former President
>of the American Historical Association, served on the editorial board of
>the American Historical Review, and held chaired professorships at Brown
>University and at Berkeley. However, since this book is now more than 25
>years old, it may well be that better information is available to us.
>
>Just for clarity -- I'm not defending Bridenbaugh's account -- I'm merely
>passing it along.
>
>Best,
>
>Al Tims
>
>
>
>
>----------
>> From: Lea L. Dowd
>> To: VKRatliff@aol.com; POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com; Ken Poole
>
>> Subject: Re: Va. Militia in 17th Century
>> Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 2:28 PM
>>
>> Anyone.... I would love to know the source of Opechancanough being a
>> brother to Powhatan. According to my sources, he was born ca 1584 and
>> Powhatan was born ca 1543. It is also said that Opechancanough married
>the
>> daughter of Powhatan. The brother that I have for Powhatan is
>Opeechepan.
>>
>> Just curious as to any "legal" sources on this one.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Lea
>>
>>
>> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>>
>>
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re Caddo Parish, LA Poythress folkCharles Neal11-30-97

The 8 Poythress graves that Helene Pockrus gave us info about in Al's
message of 11/28, in Jewella Cemetery, Shreveport, Caddo Parish, Louisiana,
rang a bell for me about Caddo Parish. While my info, below, does not
match up to any of the specific Poythress folks in Helene's message about
Jewella Cemetery, I offer my little bit of info here in order to have all
the Caddo Parish info that I'm aware of, in one place for anyone
interested.

By the way, in those graves in Jewella Cemetery the timespan of Poythress
presence in that area (at least for coming home there for burial )
showed those 8 folks lived between Sept, 1859 (earliest birth) and 1993
(most recent death). So perhaps there are still Poythress folks in the
Shreveport area who could tell us who they descend from.

Are any of our List-ers aware of any current Poythress-line relatives in
Shreveport, whether or not they are currently bearing the last name of
Poythress? If so, I'd love to hear of them.

What I had earlier known of Louisiana Poythress folks follows:

Gene Poythress, whom I visited in Chattahoochee, Gadsden County, Florida in
May 1997, is the (73-yr-old) grandson of John P. Poythress (The family
thinks his middle name was "Price"); Gene does not know the name of John
P's parents. John P. died in April 1886 in Chattahoochee, Florida, where
he raised his family, but BEFORE that, he had served in the Civil War.
According to his Florida pension record for that service, John P. Poythress
had enlisted 14 March 1862 and he was discharged honorably Dec. 31, 1862,
after having been wounded at Murfreesboro. He was a private in Capt. Wm.
Robison's Co. A, 25th Regiment LOUISIANA Volunteers.

His file shows that at discharge he was 21 years old (thus born about
1841), and that he had been born in Gadsden County, FL.

In an effort to find any further info about his grandfather, Gene had asked
a lady he knew to look in the FL Archives in Tallahassee for any Poythress
family in Louisiana Census records prior to John P's enlistment in the
Louisiana unit mentioned above. She located at least one Poythress family
in the 1860 Census. I realize that she may well have located others that
she didn't mention to Gene if the others had no one of the correct age to
be John P.

The one she told him about is in Caddo Parish, La. While the extra person
in the household (at the bottom of the household) is not of the exactly
right age to be John P. (born about 1841, remember?) and while he shows a
different middle initial, knowing the imperfect nature of the Census the
lady gave this possibility to Gene:
Poythress, James A. age 38, farmer having 1,000 acres
" , Martha A. age 30
" . Emma J. age 8 [thus born about 1852]
" , Mary V. age 6
" , Wm. H. age 4 [thus born about 1856]
" , John M. age 26, carpenter [thus born about 1834]

Gene's grandfather John P. Poythress was a farmer after the War in Gadsden
Co; I believe Gene said that his grandfather had done some carpentry at
least for his own family, but I cannot find my notes of that, so I'd have
to confirm that with him. At any rate, Gene is completely open-minded
about whether the above John M. is really a somewhat mistaken listing for
his grandfather, John P., but more inclined to think it probably is not the
same John.

A more logical avenue, to me, would be to check the Florida 1860 Census for
Gadsden County (which does exist, but I haven't had occasion to see it) and
see whether John P. Poythress is an approximate 19-yr-old in a Poythress
household there, and thus be able to find John P's father's name that way.
I recognize that just because he enlisted in a Louisiana unit, that does
not necessarily indicate that he ever set foot in Louisiana; various units
recruited all over the South.

If anyone has easy access to the 1860 Florida Census, or knows anything
about that particular unit, I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Now, I note that referring back to the graves in Helene's message, there
were included:
- William W. born in 1859 according to his stone. He is obviously not in
the above Caddo Parish Census household, but it is also possible that his
gravemarker is off by a year and that he was born after the June 1860
Census, and could have been named Wm. to replace the above Wm. H. who could
have died as a young child, but all of that is rather much of a stretch.
- Emma born in 1891 [whose name is on a double stone, with no spouse's
name yet on the stone, so perhaps he is still alive there? She only died
in April of 1993, so I guess it's possible, though if he & she were near
the same age, he'd be over 100 now] She is also obviously not in the above
household, but could have been named for the above Emma as a niece or
whatever.

If anyone can amplify on any of the above points, I'd appreciate hearing
from you.

Barbara Poythress Neal (BPN)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Numbering SystemCharles Neal11-30-97

Maynard,

I'll go with Craig's recommendation on both the publishing numbering system
& the working numbering system.

Also, for what it's worth:

I do NOT have Family Tree Maker. I use Ultimate Family Tree (or UFT for
abbreviation-purposes), which is put out by Palladium Interactive, Inc.,
which is a great program. It allows for unlimited-sized notes and has lots
of great features. It is very easy to use (contrary to some of its
predecessor-programs -- namely Roots III and Roots IV, but they do finally
now in UFT have an easy-to-use product). It, of course, might not do other
things you want your next program to do, but you can find out more about it
by visiting their website, which is www.palladium.net.

I have also heard great things about Brother's Keeper, but have never seen
it.

Of course, everyone's genealogical-database-program (no matter which
program they use) is going to have different internal numbers for people,
depending on the order in which they have entered them & who all they have
entered, so our own internal-at-home-numbers will be different from one
another, but that is a separate question from the "working numbering
system" question that Craig was addressing.

The different programs each of us use should not cause any big problems
either, so I don't think there should be any thought of anyone switching
from any program they are comfortable with.

BPN

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Poythress ProgenitorsCraig,
You wrote "Among Scotts is is a much
more common problem then it will be for us Poythresses, since I think we are
only currently dealing with seven progenitors."

I have been assuming one progenitor, Capt. Francis Poythress, as our Virginia
source and beginning. Would you name the seven?

Many thanks, Barbara (BPW)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: New List FeaturesBoy Howdy....one can sure tell when the semester is coming to a close! 🙂
....some of us come back to life.

MP

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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11/30/1997 8:53:29
Re: Poythress ProgenitorsCraig R. Scott>Craig,
>You wrote "Among Scotts it is a much
>more common problem then it will be for us Poythresses, since I think we are
>only currently dealing with seven progenitors."
>
>I have been assuming one progenitor, Capt. Francis Poythress, as our Virginia
>source and beginning. Would you name the seven?

There is no doubt in my mind that there is only one progenitor to this
crowd. At least I felt that way a year ago before this list began. But then
the English connections suggest that there might even be more than one
emigrant. [Anybody know where James of Amelia transported himself from or
who his daddy is?]

If I remember Barbara (BPW) descends from Lewis as does Barbara (BPN). Since
they don't know the father of Lewis (or if you do, I missed it) then Lewis
would be a progenitor.

A progenitor is a person whose parents we don't know yet. If the connections
to England get firmed up enough we might find Francis' parents and he would
not be a progenitor anymore (and what a shame that would be; right ).

Of course, my Benjamin of Petersburg is a progenitor whose progenitor status
I have spent most of my genealogocial life changing to at least the son of one.

So how many Poythresses do we have whose parents we don't know?

Craig

>

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Bland Query on VA-RootsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following was posted to VA-Roots today. One among us may have some
relevant information for this person. His email address is in the header
below.

Best,
Al Tims
------
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:03:56 -0800
From: jbrandt@pop.ben2.ucla.edu
Subject: Edward BLAND-VA-1746

Hi everyone,

I am looking for the children of Edward BLAND and Elizabeth COCKE.
Edward was the son of Col. Richard BLAND and Anne POYTHRESS born in
1746.Any help will be appreciated.

John

John Brandt
Venice, CA USA
jbrandt@ucla.edu

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Powhatan & brothersLea L. DowdThank you all for your help. I still do not have a primary source, but
have located a book called "The Powhatan Tribes", by Christian F. Feest;
Frank Porter, general editor.

In this book it states that Powhatan had three brothers; Opichapam,
Opechancanough and Ketataugh. Powhatan having reached the age of at least
70 years of age, died of natural causes in April 1618, and his brother
Opichapam succeeded him as mamnatowick or "great King". But this new ruler
was barely heard or seen by the colonists. Opechancanough had long held
considerable sway over the tribes, and with Powhatan's death, he soon
gained effective control of them. It is Opechancanough who is credited
with the Good Friday Massacre.

On April 18, 1644, Opechancanough made a last stand. Now at least 80
yearsold and unable to walk unaided.....When captured in 1646 he refused to
even acknowledge his defeat, and was carried to Jamestown and jailed. One
of his guards,an English soldier enraged by the number of colonists killed
in Opechancanough's wars, shot the imprisoned ruler in the back.

Lea

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Re: Poythress ProgenitorsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: > So how many Poythresses do we have whose parents we don't know?

Craig -- Actually this is a great idea. You, Craig, may be saying to
yourself about now -- "Of course it is" :-).

The great idea, for the rest of us, is to compile a list of all the broken
lines we've identified. Obviously, Thomas Poythress of Brunswick, Co. VA
belongs in this category along with all the others you mention below.
Seven progenitors may soon prove to be a bit conservative :-).

Best,
Al Tims
----------
> From: Craig R. Scott
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Poythress Progenitors
> Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 10:49 PM
>
> >Craig,
> >You wrote "Among Scotts it is a much
> >more common problem then it will be for us Poythresses, since I think we
are
> >only currently dealing with seven progenitors."
> >
> >I have been assuming one progenitor, Capt. Francis Poythress, as our
Virginia
> >source and beginning. Would you name the seven?
>
> There is no doubt in my mind that there is only one progenitor to this
> crowd. At least I felt that way a year ago before this list began. But
then
> the English connections suggest that there might even be more than one
> emigrant. [Anybody know where James of Amelia transported himself from or
> who his daddy is?]
>
> If I remember Barbara (BPW) descends from Lewis as does Barbara (BPN).
Since
> they don't know the father of Lewis (or if you do, I missed it) then
Lewis
> would be a progenitor.
>
> A progenitor is a person whose parents we don't know yet. If the
connections
> to England get firmed up enough we might find Francis' parents and he
would
> not be a progenitor anymore (and what a shame that would be; right ).
>
> Of course, my Benjamin of Petersburg is a progenitor whose progenitor
status
> I have spent most of my genealogocial life changing to at least the son
of one.
>
> So how many Poythresses do we have whose parents we don't know?
>
> Craig
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Craig R. Scott, CGRS
> willowbend@mediasoft.net
>
> Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is
http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
> Come visit.
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Re Caddo Parish, LA Poythress folkAlbert R. TimsBPN

Re: Caddo Parish Information

Barbara -- Do you think you could edit your notes on the Caddo Parish
information into something I could post to the Web Page? Doesn't have to
be formal -- just a starting point for anyone wanting to work on these
family lines.

Many thanks,

Al

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: numbering systemWilliam A BridgforthTo: Craig R. Scott, CGRS et al

Craig,
Could your example:
"A-111 Francis [first child of the first child of Francis]"
also be the eleventh child of Francis ?? Would A1-1-1 help separate from
A1-11 ?? Maybe it is assumed that no one had more than ten children.

Excuse my ignorance in this matter, but want to add my two cents worth as
I hope to help the group with our future "goings on."

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com

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Re: Powhatan & brothersLea L. DowdAl,

Many thanks. I appreciate the leads. I think that I am also going to
contact the Powhatan tribe and see what information they may have for me as
well.

Regards,
Lea

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Re: Powhatan & brothersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Lea -- Amazing what you've pulled together on a Sunday evening. I do have
a reference to one additional reference source that might prove of some
assistance -- although, like most documents of the period, I'm sure it was
written from the vantage of the English immigrants.

This source is "Their great King Opechancanow," in "A Perfect Description
of Virginia" (1649). Tracts and Other Papers Relating ... to the Colonies
in North America", ed. Peter Force (Washington, 1837), II, No. 8, p 7. I
don't have this reference source, so I can't comment on its ultimate
utility. I can do a search for dissertations on the subject if you'd like.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Lea L. Dowd
> To: Albert R. Tims ; VKRatliff@aol.com;
POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com; Ken Poole
> Subject: Powhatan & brothers
> Date: Sunday, November 30, 1997 11:41 PM
>
> Thank you all for your help. I still do not have a primary source, but
> have located a book called "The Powhatan Tribes", by Christian F. Feest;
> Frank Porter, general editor.
>
> In this book it states that Powhatan had three brothers; Opichapam,
> Opechancanough and Ketataugh. Powhatan having reached the age of at least
> 70 years of age, died of natural causes in April 1618, and his brother
> Opichapam succeeded him as mamnatowick or "great King". But this new
ruler
> was barely heard or seen by the colonists. Opechancanough had long held
> considerable sway over the tribes, and with Powhatan's death, he soon
> gained effective control of them. It is Opechancanough who is credited
> with the Good Friday Massacre.
>
> On April 18, 1644, Opechancanough made a last stand. Now at least 80
> yearsold and unable to walk unaided.....When captured in 1646 he refused
to
> even acknowledge his defeat, and was carried to Jamestown and jailed. One
> of his guards,an English soldier enraged by the number of colonists
killed
> in Opechancanough's wars, shot the imprisoned ruler in the back.
>
> Lea

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Batte Poythress Chart A -- Spreadsheet on Poythress WebAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I have converted Lyn Baird's spreadsheet version of Robert Bolling Batte's
study of some of the early Poythress lines into a table page on the
Poythress Research Web. Lyn's work covers what we have come to call Chart
A or Part A. Lyn's excellent notes can be found at the bottom of the
table. Lyn also indexes his work against the Batte note cards now online
at the Library of Virginia site.

You can go directly to the spreadsheet via:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/BatteA.html

Or, you can find it under the Studies and Charts button on the homepage of
the Poythress Research Web. As a reminder, the Poythress Web URL is
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

Best,

Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====		11/30/1997 12:07:20
New List FeaturesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

We have a couple of new features associated with our list.

1. Tag Lines. I'm experimenting with a new Tag Line feature that inserts
a rotating set of messages at the bottom of all posts. You'll start seeing
these immediately. We can use these as reminders for informative subject
line posts, etc. For now, I'm rotating in a reminder for the Poythress Web
URL and the URL for Rootsweb -- our host. Rootsweb hosts the US GenWeb
pages -- like Carol Morrison's outstanding efforts and a whole lot more.
Some of you may be members. Membership isn't a requirement for
participating in this, or any of the other genealogy related lists. The
basic $12 membership is simply a way to help defray the cost of the
equipment and leased data lines for the operation. Right now, the
projected operating cost for next year is roughly $100,000. The folks who
operate the service are volunteers. Pretty amazing -- since they seem to
be on call 7 days a week -- day and night. The best way to learn more is
to visit the RootsWeb home page.

2. Web-Based List Message Archive. I've signed us up to have our messages
archived on-line. The system for this is really cool. We'll be able to go
to a web page where all our messages each month are indexed and archived.
I'll let you know as soon as we come online with this service. In the
meantime, if you'd like to see what I'm talking about all you need do is go
to the following URL and take a look at one of the surname archives already
up and running.

http://lists.rootsweb.com/~archiver/lists/

Keep in mind that this is optional. If we decide we don't like this
service I can take us off. The same holds true for the tag lines.

Best,

Al Tims

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Re: numbering systemCraig R. Scott>Could your example:
>"A-111 Francis [first child of the first child of Francis]"
>also be the eleventh child of Francis ?? Would A1-1-1 help separate from
>A1-11 ?? Maybe it is assumed that no one had more than ten children.
>
Sorry all, my mistake in not explaining what the word modified meant in
"modified Henry System".

The eleventh child of Francis Poythress (and aren't we glad that he did not
really have eleven) would be A-1B.

So it would follow this scheme:

child # code modified form code unmodified
1 A-11
2 A-12
3 A-13
4 A-14
5 A-15
6 A-16
7 A-17
8 A-18
9 A-19
10 A-1A A-1(10)
11 A-1B A-1(11)
12 A-1C etc
13 A-1D
14 A-1E
15 A-1F
16 A-1G
etc.>

I have used this all the way to 37 children (there were three wives). Had to
use [ and ] for numbers 36 and 37 to make it sort properly, but it has only
happened once in 2,000 plus progenitors. I do not recommend the unmodified
Henry as it is very cumbersome to use, especially with computers.

Use of the Henry system would allow us to know how we are related to each
other also.

For example:

Say person #1 of progenitor C has a code: C-11111111
and person #2 of progenitor C has a code: C-11111112

They are siblings.

if person #3 of progenitor C has a code: C-1111112

then person #3 is a sibling of person #1 related parent (C-1111111)

if person #4 of progenitor C has a code: C-11111348

they share C-11111 as a common ancestor which would make it:

C-11111 common great grand parent
C-111111 sibling grand parents C-111113
C-1111111 first cousins C-1111134
C-11111111 second cousins C-11111348

I think I have this right.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

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Prince George/Norfolk connections???Lea L. DowdDoes anyone have any further clues on these people's ancestors?

Thanks,
Lea

Prince George Co., VA County Records 1713-1728 P. 392 26 Apr 1718/9 Mar
1719
Will of Elizabeth Ivie of Waynoak Parish, Pr. Geo. Co.
Legatees: son George Ivie 20 shillings; son Henry Ivie a gold ring; son
John Ivie my bed; son Gilbert Ivie 20 shillings; daughter Susan Hays a gold
ring; son Adam Ivie and his daughter Elizabeth all the rest of my household
goods to be equally divided. Son Adam to be sole executor. Wit: Eliza.
Foster, Mary Poythress. Elizabeth (E) Ivie.

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DortchLea L. DowdHere is another DORTCH researcher that I have communicated with. He wrote
a book, but it is no longer in print. I hope that this helps.

Lea

Jim Perrin
jperrin@i-55.com

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Powhatan and "Ope"StarrHello list members and especially Lea,
It takes me longer to find things these days, but this might be
helpful to those wishing to do more research. According to the
footnote, page 49 _American Slavery...American Freedom: The Ordeal
of Colonial VA_ by Edmund S. Morgan, Norton Co:NY 1975 which is used
as a text for a class at Univ of OK ...

"Virtually everything now known about the Indians of the VA region,
apart from the meager archeological evidence, is derived from five
accounts: Capt. John Smith's writings in _Travels and Works_, Edward
Arber ed. (Edinburgh 1910), (Smith's early writings, in a more reliable
transcript, are in Barbour, _Jamestown Voyages); a brief account by
Henry Spelman, printed in the introduction to Smith, _Travels & Works
I, ci-cxiv; William Strachey, _Historie of Travell_; Thomas Hariot's
_Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land of VA (Quinn, _Roanoke
Voyages, I, 314-87); and Robert Beverley, _The History and Present
State of VA_, Louis B. Wright ed. (Chapel Hill, NC 1947). Beverley
wrote in 1705 and thus knew the Indians only after they had had generations
of contact with the English. Hariot, of course, was familiar only with the
Indians south of the Chesapeake, and therefore not all of what he says is
applicable. Strachey copied large sections of his work from Smith, but
added details of his own (some of which do not appear wholly plausible).
There are also a few useful observations in a letter of the Rev. John Clayton,
printed in David I. Bushnell, "VA from Early Records," _American Anthro-
pologist_, IX (1907), 41-44 and in an anonymous "Account of the Indians
in VA," dated 1689, Stanley Pargellis, ed. WMQ, 3rd ser. XVI (1959), 228-
43."

The three works cited for the statement about VA tribes within the
text are: Maurice A. Monk, "The Aboriginal Population of Tidewater VA",
in _American Anthropologist_, n.s. XLVI (1944), 193-208; Nancy O.
Lurie, "Indian Cultural Adjustment to European Civilization" in James
M. Smith, ed _Seventeenth-Century America: Essays in Colonial History_
(Chapel Hill, NC 1959) p. 33-60.

I found this interesting tidbit while looking for more on the "Opes".
Footnote page 76 of Morgan book: "The Pocahontas story does not appear in
Smith's first accounts of his experience (citing "Travels & Works" plus
Barbour, _Jamestown Voyages I_) but in his later and larger _Generall
Historie of VA, New England and the Summer Isles_ (_Travels & Works II_,
p400, 531. See also ibid I, cxv-cxviii).

Morgan doesn't specifically cite anything for Opechancanough as
brother of Powhatan who takes over when Powhatan dies c1620, but the
statement is between _Records of VA Company_ and Smith _Travels and
Works II_. Have fun Lea Linda

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm

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Mary Elizabeth BLAND-VA-1819I hope that someone on this list may be able to help me solve the
mystery of my GGGrandmother, Mary Elizabeth BLAND. She was born 25 Nov 1819
in Virginia. On 11 Jan 1847 she married Isaac Newton DE HART, born 7 Feb
1811 in Monroe County,West Virginia. They had a daughter, Naomi Caroilne DE
HART, my GGrandmother, who married Robert Henry KING. They had a daughter,
Sarah Nell KING, my Grandmother, who told me that we were related to
Richard BLAND who wrote an important paper regading the independence of the
country. Among my papers I have a hand-written note from her about Richard
BLAND. I have been trying since 1976 to find the connection with absolutely
no success. I know that she was eligible for membership to the DAR but she
never followed through with the paperwork. If anyone can help me with this
puzzle I'll be most grateful

Still searching

John

John Brandt
Venice, CA USA
jbrandt@ucla.edu

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Mrs. Mary Poythress and Robert WynneDoes anyone have any information on Mrs. Mary Poythress (ca 1624 - ca 1675)
(I assume her married name) who was married to Robert Wynne (12/28/1622 -
8/16/1678) ? What Poythress did she marry? What was her maiden name, etc.?

My information is that they died in Charles City Co., Va.

She and Robert are listed on chart 151 of "Royal Ancestors of some American
Families" by Michel L. Call. Any help or information would be appreciated.

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Re Caddo Parish, LA Poythress folkCharles Neal12-1-97

Al,

Basically all I have in that long rambling message that I KNOW pertains to
Caddo Parish, La, is the 1860Census household info, which I got 3rd-hand
from Gene Poythress, who got it from his friend, who got it at the FL
Archives.

The John P. Poythress Civil War record may not have any relationship with
Caddo Parish, La. He was just in a La unit, which was formed
I-know-not-where.

My recommendation re what to put on the web page (assuming we don't have
someone with access to Florida &/or Louisiana records reply to my questions
within my long rambling message) would be for you to just Edit - Copy (1)
the grave info that Helene sent you, including the name & location of the
cemetery plus (2) the Census household info from my long message.

BPN

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Re: Newly Identified Archival Sources -- Poythress FamilyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Okay - I'm going to push my luck here and ask for the hale and hearty to
step forward and volunteer to do field trips across the Southeastern U.S.
to systematically survey the six archive collections identified below. A
more detailed description of the contents is in my previous post -- and
soon to be up on the web page for reference purposes. Item 1 -- The
Huntington Library -- is a problem since it is closed to genealogical
researchers. I'll have to work around that one.

All the others (Maryland Historical Society, University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill, Tennessee State Library, Virginia Historical Society and
the College of William and Mary) should pose no particular problems in
terms of public access to the collections. As far as I can tell, we don't
know precisely what we'll find. But, this is new turf and we know that
there is enough on the Poythress name to merit mention in the description
of the collections.

Any takers? Could be fun! YOU might be the one that discovers one of
those key records that makes tons of stuff fall into place! YOU could
become Poythress Researcher of The Year! Or, you could come back with
zilch ... Worth a shot?

Best,

Al Tims

1. Collection Name: Orde, James P.
Repository Name: The Huntington Library, San Marino CA

2. Collection Name: Wright-May-Thom family papers (1727, 1802-1965)
Repository Name: Maryland Historical Society, Manuscripts Division,

3. Collection Name: Hall, William Bonnell
Repository Name: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,
Library,

4. Collection Name: Bentley, Blanch Spurlock
Repository Name: Tennessee State Library and Archives, Nashville TN

5. Collection Name: Cocke, William Ronald (1893-1968)
Repository Name: Virginia Historical Society, Richmond VA

6. Collection Name: Blow family
Repository Name: College of William and Mary, Earl Gregg Swem
Library /

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Mary Poythress and Robert WynneI asked earlier about Robert Wynne and Mrs. Mary Poythress. I went to the
Poythress Research Web site and found some good information in it. However,
I am somewhat confused. On the pages dealing with the Wynne family
connection to the Poythress family, it states that Mary's maiden name is
unknown. On the pages for the Woodliffe family, it states that Mary Wynne,
spouse of John Woodliffe III, was the daughter of Robert Wynne and Mary
Frances Sloman (married 1st to Francis Poythress).

Which is correct?

Thanks again for any help.

Allan

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Prince George/Norfolk connections???Charles NealLea,

Intriguing! Unfortunately I've never heard of these Ivie (perhaps
current-day-spelled Ivey?) folks. Sorry I cannot help. Appreciate the
find of this Mary, though. Good going!

BPN

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Re: Newly Identified Archival Sources -- Poythress FamilyCharles NealAl,

No one is allowed into the Huntington Library in San Marino, CA unless
she/he is a Doctoral student and/or a historian doing research on a
specific subject. Believe me, I've tried.

BPN

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Fw: some notes I picked up this trip.Marion & Helene PockrusThis was the note re James A Poythress.
Helene

----------
> From: Marion & Helene Pockrus
> To: Lyn Poythress Baird ; Albert R. Tims

> Cc: Poythress-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: some notes I picked up this trip.
> Date: Saturday, August 16, 1997 10:54 AM
>
> William Poythress, Militia; Georgia, entry rank; Corporal, exit rank;
> Corporal
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Land Records, Al,AR,FL,La,MI,MN,OH,WI #255
> Pre-1790 Colonial Records, #136
>
> Robert Porteous Bearfort Distr, SC 1778
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> 2 patents for Peter Poythress in AR, one in the name of his widow Lilly,
> dated Nov 27, 1820 (War of 1812 warrants)
>
> 2 patents for James A. Poythress in Natchitoches dated 1860.
> 2 patenbts for Peter Poythress in Arkansas, one in the name of his widow
> Lilly, dated November 27, 1820(War of 1812 warrants)
>
> Have more on the James A. Poythress in LA
> James A. Poythres was in the 1860 Caddo Parish LA census.page 59
enumerated
> July 27, 1860
> 408/413 he is 38 a farmer has $1000 pp/$1000 Real Estate He was born in
> Georgia
> He has a wife Martha A. age 30 born Virginia
> daughter Emma J. age 8, born LA
> daughter Mary 6, bornLA
> William H. 4, born LA
> and a John W. Poythress age 26 who is a carpenter who was born in
> Florida(extra little quirk)_
> They were married (film had a blemish but I think it was 1837)
> Next door were living Hubbard Ford from Virginia, Bennett from NC John M.
> Carn of SC
>
> Hope some of this clarifies someone's work. By the way, I would like to
> know who your earliest Poythress is that is documented in the USA.
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Additionally, I found a great book-rather Marion did-called the
> Alphabetical List of Private Claims which have been presented to the
House
> of Representatives from the First to the Thirty First Congress,
exhibiting
> tThe Action of Congress on each Claim with refereces to the Journals,
> Reports, Bills & etc., Elucidating its Porgress. Compiled by order of
the
> House of Representatives. Published by Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc
in
> 1970
> Vol 111 from P to Z inclusive:
> William PoythressHeirs-wanted commutation pay for Revolutionary Services
> during the 23rd Congress, 1st Sessionl brought before the House as a
> petition in Journal page 127 was referred to the Committee of the House
on
> Revolutionary Claims.
> William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 23rd Congress in the 2nd
> Session on Page 48 of the Journal again sent to the Committe of the House
> on Revolutionary Claims.
> William Poythress heirs again petitioned the 24th Congress in the 1st
> Session as documented on the 942nd page of the Journal and again was
again
> referred to the Revolutionary Claims Committee.
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ____________________
>
> An interesting book called "A Century of Population Growth from the First
> Census of the United States to the Twelfth Census 1790-1900" Published by
> Genealogical Publishing Co., 1970 did not list any Poythress surnames on
> Table 111 which was dealing with names represented by at least 100 white
> persons by States and Territories at the First Census 1790. However,
this
> Census listed a lot of Parkhurst, Parckhurst, Parkhast, Parkherst and
> Parkhurt. Also lots of Parkes, Parkess, Parkis and Pearks - gotta get my
> dig in as it looks like I am going to have to shift my focus of research.
> Hence the question above.
>
> Helene

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Re: Mrs. Mary Poythress and Robert WynneAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Re: From: Asrt388@aol.com Subject: Mrs. Mary Poythress and Robert Wynne
>
> Does anyone have any information on Mrs. Mary Poythress (ca 1624 - ca
1675)
> (I assume her married name) who was married to Robert Wynne (12/28/1622 -
> 8/16/1678) ? What Poythress did she marry? What was her maiden name,
etc.?

This Mary (Poythress) Wynne was first married to Capt. Francis Poythress.
We don't have proof of her maiden name, although some speculate that it was
Sloman. Mary and Francis are believed to have had four children (Francis,
Jane, John and Thomas). Jane is believed, by some accounts, to have
married Thomas Rolfe and to have been the mother of Jane Rolfe. Evidence
suggests that Thomas returned to England. We don't know if he ever returned
to Virginia. John married Christian Peebles. Francis is believed to have
married Rebecca Coggin (Coggan).

You may want to visit the Poythress web page for additional details.
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
In particular, take a look at the Allied Family Information section under
the Study of the Poythress and Wall families. This account is a good
summary of the extant records.

Hope this little overview helps.

Best,
Al Tims

>
> My information is that they died in Charles City Co., Va.
>
> She and Robert are listed on chart 151 of "Royal Ancestors of some
American
> Families" by Michel L. Call. Any help or information would be
appreciated.

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William Ronald Cocke PapersAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Jim Richardson is our first archives volunteer! He just wrote to say:

I will take the "Virginia Historical Society." I am a member and my office
is near. Will research the collection "Cocke, William Ronald (1893-1968)"

Jim Richardson
---------------------

This collection (described below) includes several surnames of current
interest -- including Epes, Gill, Pleasants and Randolph.

Best,
Al Tims

Collection Name: Cocke, William Ronald (1893-1968)
Repository Name: Virginia Historical Society, Richmond VA
NUCMC Number: MS 72-1791
Type: Papers
Collection Dates:
1924-1968
Extent ca. 1030 items
Description:
Author. Chiefly correspondence and genealogical notes on the Adams, Allen,
Appleberry, Aston, Ayres, Bagby, Bernard, Bobby, Browning, Chamberlayne,
Chastain, Cheatham, Chichester, Chick, Chiles, Clack, Cocke, Cross, Curd,
Davis, Dickinson, Eldridge, Ellet, Epes, Fitzhugh, Ford, Fox, Freeland,
Geddes, Gill, Graves, Haden, Hall, Henry, Hoomes, Hudson, Hughes, Johnston,
Jones, Jordan, Kennon, King, Lane, Layne, Lee, Lewis, Lindsay, Mallory,
Martin, Perkins, Pleasants, Poindexter, Power, POYTHRESS, Price,
Ragland, Randolph, Rhodes, Rodes, Shores, Skipwith, Smith, Snead,
Sneed, Southerlin, Starke, Sutherland, Syme, Thomas, Tucker, West, White,
Willis, Winfrey, and Winston
families. Includes literary mss., reviews, and abstracts of Buckingham
Co., Va., tax records (1782-1819). Collection has been analyzed by the
repository. Gift of William Ronald Cocke, Erie, Pa., 1971.

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Newly Identified Archival Sources -- Poythress FamilyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

A new online service available to me at the University of Minnesota allows
searching of numerous archives for unpublished document collections.
Having said this, I will delay no further in offering up what I have found
to date. These things are spread all over the place, but as far as I can
tell none of this information has been researched by any of us do date.
Please correct me if this is an inaccurate statement. Do read the index
summaries carefully since there are number allied families also
identified.

Here goes!

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------------------------------------------------
Collection Name:
Orde, James P.
Repository Name:
The Huntington Library, San Marino CA
NUCMC Number:
MS 81-75
Type:
Letters
Collection Dates:
1740-1801, 1823-1842
Extent:
86 items
Description:
Letters (1823-42) from Orde to artist George Perfect
Harding
commissioning him to copy portraits in English country
houses for
use in a work on John Evelyn. Acquired from Winifred
Myers,
1972.
Index Terms:
ART and artists; Artists' papers; 19th century; 1820s and
after
EVELYN, John, 1620-1706
GREAT Britain; Cultural affairs; Art and artists; 19th century
GREAT Britain; Historic houses and sites
HARDING, George Perfect, d. 1853
HISTORIC houses and sites; Great Britain
ORDE, James P.
PORTRAITS
POYTHRESS family; Genealogy

--------------------------------------------
Collection Name:
Wright-May-Thom family papers (1727, 1802-1965)
Repository Name:
Maryland Historical Society, Manuscripts Division,
Baltimore MD
NUCMC Number:
MS 81-753
Extent:
19 boxes
Description:
In part, transcripts. Business and personal
correspondence,
journals, accounts, bills, receipts, and other papers, of
a Baltimore
City and Queen Anne's County, Md., family including
William
Henry DeCourcy Wright (1795-1864), Clintonia Wright May
Thomas (1825-1902?), William May (ca. 1815-1861), and
DeCourcy Wright Thom (1858-1932); and genealogical notes
of
DeCourcy W. Thom on the Barclay, Bennet, Bland, Brett,
Brooke,
Clayton, Courcy, DeCourcy, Fitzhugh, Hard, Jett, Keyser,
Lea,
Lewis, Massie, May, Mayo, Poythress, Rose, Smith, Tabb,
Thom, Triplett, Warner, and Wright families. Includes
material
relating to William H.D. Wright's work as U.S. consul in
Rio de
Janeiro, Brazil, 1825-34, and William May's service in the
U.S.
Navy aboard the frigates Congress and Constellation in the
Mediterranean. Unpublished finding aid in the repository.
Gift of
Mrs. Ludlow H. (Anne Gordon) Baldwin, Baltimore, Md.,
1979.
Index Terms:
NUCMC

---------------------------------
Collection Name:
Hall, William Bonnell
Repository Name:
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Library,
Manuscripts Dept. & Southern Historical Collection,
Chapel Hill
NC
NIDS Fiche Number:
3.115.348 row 1
Type:
Collection
Collection Dates:
1812-1940
Extent:
6 boxes, 4 vols.
Index Terms:
NIDS
Index Terms:
Anderson family
Bland family
Bolling family
Bonnell family
Briscoe family
Childs family
Cobb family
Cocke family
Elam family
Eldridge family
Elerbe family
Genealogy; Alabama families
Genealogy; South Carolina families
Genealogy; Tennessee families
Genealogy; Virginia families
Hall family
Hall, William Bonnell
Munford family
Pegues family
Poythress family
Stokes family
University of Virginia; Students; Hall, William Bonnell
University of the South; Students; Hall, William Bonnell
Withers family

----------------------------
Collection Name:
Bentley, Blanch Spurlock
Repository Name:
Tennessee State Library and Archives, Nashville TN
NIDS Fiche Number:
3.39.15
NUCMC Number:
MS 62-3522
Type:
Papers
Collection Dates:
1761-1942
Extent:
ca. 300 items
Description:
Historian. Correspondence, genealogical data, historical
notes
and sketches on McMinnville and Warren County, wills,
indentures, a muster roll (1846) of Captain A.
Northcut's
Company, maps, land notes, and memorabilia. Includes 16
letters from a soldier, identified as Cy Titus, of the
19th Regiment
of Michigan Infantry, describing Sherman's March through
Georgia and South Carolina; and material on the Archer,
Argo,
Armstrong, Bentley, Black, Bolling, Bonner, Bostock,
Branch,
Coffee, Cunningham, Edmondson, Eldridge, Farrar, Fisher,
Garretson, Gay, Goode, Gwyn, Harding, Heath, Henderson,
Higgenbotham, Hoge, Laughlin, Lee, Loyd, Looney, McGee,
Mitchell, Powell, Poythress, Rodgers, Rolfe, Rowan,
Rust,
Smartt, Sniper, Soane, Spurlock, Trent, Vaughan,
Wilcher,
Williams, Wilson, Woodson, and Worsham families.
Unpublished register in the repository. Acquired from
the estate
of Sterling Brown, executor of the estates of Mrs.
Bentley's
sons, Frank and Eldridge Bentley.
Index Terms:

----------------------------
Collection Name:
Cocke, William Ronald (1893-1968)
Repository Name:
Virginia Historical Society, Richmond VA
NUCMC Number:
MS 72-1791
Type:
Papers
Collection Dates:
1924-1968
Extent:
ca. 1030 items
Description:
Author. Chiefly correspondence and genealogical notes on
the
Adams, Allen, Appleberry, Aston, Ayres, Bagby, Bernard,
Bobby,
Browning, Chamberlayne, Chastain, Cheatham, Chichester,
Chick,
Chiles, Clack, Cocke, Cross, Curd, Davis, Dickinson,
Eldridge,
Ellet, Epes, Fitzhugh, Ford, Fox, Freeland, Geddes, Gill,
Graves,
Haden, Hall, Henry, Hoomes, Hudson, Hughes, Johnston,
Jones,
Jordan, Kennon, King, Lane, Layne, Lee, Lewis, Lindsay,
Mallory,
Martin, Perkins, Pleasants, Poindexter, Power, Poythress,
Price,
Ragland, Randolph, Rhodes, Rodes, Shores, Skipwith, Smith,
Snead, Sneed, Southerlin, Starke, Sutherland, Syme,
Thomas,
Tucker, West, White, Willis, Winfrey, and Winston
families.
Includes literary mss., reviews, and abstracts of
Buckingham Co.,
Va., tax records (1782-1819). Collection has been analyzed
by the
repository. Gift of William Ronald Cocke, Erie, Pa., 1971.
Index Terms:
NUCMC

Collection Name:
Blow family
Repository Name:
College of William and Mary, Earl Gregg Swem Library /
Manuscripts / Rare Books, University Archives,
Williamsburg VA
NUCMC Number:
MS 66-254
Type:
Papers
Collection Dates:
1732-1890
Extent:
42,562 items
Description:
Correspondence, account books, ledgers, and other papers
from
Tower Hill Plantation, Sussex Co., Va. Includes deeds to
property
made by the Indians; records of tobacco sales before 1755;
letters
recounting the difficulties with the Algerian pirates in
1794 and the
yellow fever scare in Philadelphia (1802); lists of the
white persons
killed and Negroes executed in the Turner Rebellion of
1831; a
typewritten history of the plantation with 31 drawings, by
William
Nivison Blow; and genealogical material on the Bland,
Blow,
Camm, Corbin, and Poythress families. Family members
represented include Samuel Blow (fl. 1740), Richard Blow
(fl.
1762), Michael Blow (fl. 1766), Richard Blow (fl. 1810),
George
Blow (fl. 1891), Robert Blow (fl. 1827), William N. Blow
(fl.
1850), Col. George Blow and George Blow, Jr., who served
in the
Civil War, and Lucy P. Blow (fl. 1890). Description
listing each
item available in the library. Open to investigators under
restrictions
accepted by the repository. Given and deposited by Mrs.
Elizabeth
B. Jurgenson, "Tower Hill", Sussex Co., Va., Mrs. F. S.
Sargeant,
"Lock Haven", Norfolk, Va., Mrs. George P. Blow, Yorktown,
Va., and Mr. and Mrs. Edward Jeffcott, Edgarton, Mass.
Index Terms:
NUCMC

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Re. numbering systemsCharles NealI thoroughly concur with Maurice's comments. Hear, hear !!

BPN

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Archival Sources - Wm B HallCharles NealAl,

I was thrilled to see that your search has determined for us WHERE William
B. Hall's papers ended up! Chapel Hill of all places -- how great! No
wonder all our sleuthing around Selma, Alabama.and environs failed to pan
out !! Good job.

Sure wish I were closer than California to Chapel Hill, since that is one
collection I would love to browse thru. I suspect his folders on the
Pegues family (ancestors in my Godfrey line), and on Genealogy of Alabama
families & Genealogy of South Carolina families (i.e. Godfrey line again),
would be of interest to me, in addition of course to my main interest --
the portion on the Poythress family.

BPN

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12/02/1997 2:15:31
Re: Mary Poythress and Robert WynneAllan...

I'll jump in and try to non-answer that one re Francis' wife's maiden name.
(I add that if someone happens to have a documented REAL answer I would be
ectatic to be
proven wrong on this one)

So far we have no hard evidence and very little circumstantial evidence to
identify this lady. On every critical study I have seen she is only
identified by her first name Mary.

We have run into several candidates, most of whom either were admitted to
have been or seemed to have been copied from someone else who just needed to
"fill in a blank".

I won't confuse the issue by listing these. One of these however was
"Frances"...which we somewhat suspected was prompted by confusion with
"Francis".

Another candidate (and to us the one with the most credibility) was
"Sloman"....the rationale being that the name is certainly not a "usual"
given name and that it had never appeared in the Wynne family until the the
marriage to Francis' widow....and then it pops up in the next two generations
as a male given name.

So it is interesting and maybe even MORE plausible that your "Mary Frances
Sloman" bundles two of them in what is a most logical way (especially for a
bunch of Southern guys in the habit of dealing with two-name Southern
ladies).

But again, despite all of the above, the real answer is I don't think we
know....and if you do find out we'll put you up for genealogist of the year.

Thanks for the query,

Maynard Poythress

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Re. numbering systemsCraig R. ScottIt was not my intent to get into a long winded discussion concerning
numbering systems. I was responding to a question posted to the list. It was
never my intent in those discussions that anyone would have to modify their
own computer systems, make any change in their working papers, or do
anything at all.

What is at issue is that we have a repository of Poythress data that is not
the beneficiary of our individual working paper numbering systems. What I
believed was being asked was what could we use on the Poythress webpages to
keep it all straight. If we are to create a massive database of Poythress
descendants, track the hundreds of people whose parents we are not able to
be sure of, and display it in ways, on the Internet that the will allow us
to connect all the pieces eventually together easily. It will not be
possible to remember all of the connections that will occur. It will be
possible that we will remember those that affect our own research.

When I think of Benjamin Poythress of Petersburg, husband of Susan M.
Williams that is one thing. When I say to Al, put the data I am about to
give you in person B-1 there will be no confusion. If you want to reduce the
amount of work that the maintainer of the web pages and the web database
(which really does not even exist yet, but the Batte data is the first
attempt at such a thing) will have to accomplish then I would urge you to
provide him with your support for a standard methodology for the webpages to
describe the relationships that exist. Frankly, the selection of which
system should be used does not much matter to me. I have had my input in the
matter. But I am empathically telling you that this marvelous child we have
is going to grow and mature and get bigger and bigger (look how far we have
come in the short time that we have been together) and that it is better to
provide structure early, rather than later. I think that once we see how
many people that exist in our personal databases named Poythress whose
parents we might see the magnitude of the problem that we are going to have
to deal with.

C.

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Re. numbering systemsSince I was the catalyst for this can of worms, I will

a) apologize for bringing it up b) suggest a method whereby we put it to
rest:

1) if anybody feels compelled to "number" (for publication or whatever)
Modified Henry
is preferred but not mandatory.
2) in the interim it doesn't much matter because, as Pat and/or Maurice
suggested,
we are using "names" quite satisfactorily......and however a particular
software
"numbers internally is of little consequence to other systems as
suggested by
BPN and others.
3) lets forget it?

By the way, Maurice, glad you hear you are about to join the retired-geezers
of the world. A word of caution: just be sure you don't schedule a haircut
and a trip to the post office on the same day or you will have blown your
entire week. Seriously, you will, I hope, enjoy it immensely as I have for
the past year....every day is Saturday!

Maynard

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Re. numbering systemsDear all,
Regarding numbering systems.
Question one is "why?" So far as we are concerned introducing a
numbering system is a solution looking for a problem - we think adding
the birth date of a person when communicating with someone else is not
very difficult and reduces the chance of ambiguity. If the birth date is
not known, it is quite easy to identify someone by saying 'father of' or
as in the case of John Poythress of Newent 'probable father of
Francis'. John would be our A-1 as we know he is the father of Pat's
ancestor Christopher - until we find John's father, of course!

Most of you are trying to sort out the descendants of Francis Poythress
who went to America. I don't know whether we shall ever find
conclusive proof that the Francis baptized to John 12 July 1609 in
Newent is the one who was your antecedent. The entry in the baptismal
record for St. Marys Newent is quite possibly the only proof we shall
find after all these years. We have looked in the Gloucester Record
Office for other mentions of a Francis Poythress and haven't found any.
There are certainly no records of children born to a Francis in
Gloucestershire. Next year when Maurice has retired we intend to go
through the burial records of Newent and the surrounding parishes with a
fine tooth comb or perhaps a magnifying glass would be better!.

One answer to the question is that numbering offers a route to manage
the proliferating quantity of family history information that we attempt
to keep under control (sometimes in vain). However we feel that it would
be impossible for all of us to use the same numbering system or the same
family history computer program. We use Reunion and like it, but some
people don't. Not many people are going to want to start all over again
with a new program.
Most of the standard numbering systems have their uses.

We regard family history as an attempt to answer the question "where did
we come from ?" Other than the birds and bees answer!

A system we used BR (before Reunion) made our daughter No. 1, Maurice
No.2, Pat No3, then every father's number is double the son's and wives
= n+1. A logical structure but the snag was that success led to very
large numbers.

Conclusion - all logical systems have their drawbacks if relying on
manual amendment when a new ancestor is found. It's a lot easier to
leave it to the computer software to keep it all under control - that's
one of the things we pay for - a machine to do the donkey work.

Happy to be shot down in flames,
Regards,
Maurice & Pat

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Re. numbering systemsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Seems like everyone is right :-). Craig Scott is absolutely right that any
effort on our part to grow our project will require a methodology for
placing folks. Maurice Crewe is absolutely right that in the midst of a
discussion of a particular person we'll do well not to worry too much about
the index codes. To be honest, I've enjoyed the exchange of ideas and
approaches.

So, perhaps we should be thinking in terms of an indexing system that might
work for building an online database rather than something that might
replace our personal numbering systems or the system imposed by particular
software programs. With this application in mind, perhaps we can come to
some general agreement about what might best serve our collective
interests. Just a thought :-).

Best,
Al Tims

---------
> From: Craig R. Scott
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Re. numbering systems
> Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 9:44 PM
>
> It was not my intent to get into a long winded discussion concerning
> numbering systems. I was responding to a question posted to the list. It
was
> never my intent in those discussions that anyone would have to modify
their
> own computer systems, make any change in their working papers, or do
> anything at all.
>
> What is at issue is that we have a repository of Poythress data that is
not
> the beneficiary of our individual working paper numbering systems. What I
> believed was being asked was what could we use on the Poythress webpages
to
> keep it all straight. If we are to create a massive database of Poythress
> descendants, track the hundreds of people whose parents we are not able
to
> be sure of, and display it in ways, on the Internet that the will allow
us
> to connect all the pieces eventually together easily. It will not be
> possible to remember all of the connections that will occur. It will be
> possible that we will remember those that affect our own research.
>
> When I think of Benjamin Poythress of Petersburg, husband of Susan M.
> Williams that is one thing. When I say to Al, put the data I am about to
> give you in person B-1 there will be no confusion. If you want to reduce
the
> amount of work that the maintainer of the web pages and the web database
> (which really does not even exist yet, but the Batte data is the first
> attempt at such a thing) will have to accomplish then I would urge you to
> provide him with your support for a standard methodology for the webpages
to
> describe the relationships that exist. Frankly, the selection of which
> system should be used does not much matter to me. I have had my input in
the
> matter. But I am empathically telling you that this marvelous child we
have
> is going to grow and mature and get bigger and bigger (look how far we
have
> come in the short time that we have been together) and that it is better
to
> provide structure early, rather than later. I think that once we see how
> many people that exist in our personal databases named Poythress whose
> parents we might see the magnitude of the problem that we are going to
have
> to deal with.
>
> C.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Craig R. Scott, CGRS
> willowbend@mediasoft.net
>
> Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is
http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
> Come visit.
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Poythress ProgenitorsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Craig Scott's progenitor list idea is something worth pulling together --
don't you think?

I can start a web page that lists all the known FIRST persons (unknown
parentage) associated with the line fragments we've identified. This would
likely give us a "big picture" view. In doing something like this we
should include the dates, data source, and place associated with each
individual identified. I don't have any firm ideas about just what this
would look like, so I'd welcome some creative suggestions. Moreover, I
can't do this alone -- I'll need help in identifying the progenitors :-).

Best,
Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Re. numbering systemsCharles NealCraig made some mighty good points re how large this will all grow, and how
having a numbering system in place for the Web Meister's coordinating all
our submitted-stuff will certainly be a wise thing to do.

Actually, to set the record straight, my gg-grandfather, James Edward
Poythress, is the farthest-back that I have any degree of certainty about,
so at this point he also would be a progenitor under Craig's description of
progenitors. At least until we can conclusively link him to Lewis (as we
suspect) or to whoever else may have fathered him.

Also James Speed Poythress should be considered a progenitor at this point.
He was the nephew of James Edward Poythress, but since I don't think we
know the name of James Speed P's father (or James E P's brother, if you
will), then he is a progenitor.

And I think that BPW will also tell us that she doesn't have any proof that
Lewis is the father of her gg-grandfather, either, thus making her
gggfather another progenitor.

Who else can name for us a Poythress progenito,( i.e. one for whom there is
no proof who the father was)?

BPN

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12/02/1997 10:30:11
Re: Poythress ProgenitorsCharles NealAl,

Tomorrow, I'll try to put together the known (& sources for it) basic info
for James Edward Poythress & send it to you. I, too, have no ideas on
format, but Craig's experience may serve us in good stead here. How about
it, Cousin Craig?

BPN

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Poythress ProgenitorsAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Looks like Barbara Neal is going to kick things off for us. We can easily
add Francis Poythress, Thomas Poythress, James Speed Poythress, and
probably a whole pile of those Georgia Poythress folk. Heck, we have some
in North Carolina, Louisiana, Florida and Mississippi to add to the list
too. It might be useful for us to add a sentence, or reference, stating
our most likely suspects, if any, for parentage.

----------
> From: Charles Neal
> To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: Poythress Progenitors
> Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 11:56 PM
>
> Al,
>
> Tomorrow, I'll try to put together the known (& sources for it) basic
info
> for James Edward Poythress & send it to you. I, too, have no ideas on
> format, but Craig's experience may serve us in good stead here. How
about
> it, Cousin Craig?
>
> BPN
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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>
>

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Re: Powhatan and "Ope"Albert R. TimsPoythress List,.

Linda -- Excellent work!

What you report is consistent with what I've been able to determine in the
past 24 hours, although I suspect some of the material from the Spanish
manuscripts cited by Bridenbaugh might hold a few additional clues about
the pre-Jamestown period.

Grace Steele Woodward's book "Pocahontas" published by University of
Oklahoma Press, 1969, seems to rely on many of the sources cited in your
note. Woodward's book devotes several chapters to the Powhatan, although
she clearly uses Smith's and Hariot's writings for much of the texture.
One very interesting attribute of her treatment is the extensive inclusion
of early watercolors by John White done in 1585. -- now held in the British
Museum. On the other hand, Woodward says Jane Poythress (described as an
Englishwoman) married Thomas Rolfe -- without giving us so much as a single
citation to (1) support the marriage claim or (2) her statement that Jane
Poythress was an Englishwoman.

I trust Lea will share what she learns in her quest to bring more clarity
to our understanding of the family history of the Powhatan rulers in the
late 16th and early 17th centuries.

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: Starr
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Powhatan and "Ope"
> Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 4:00 PM
>
> Hello list members and especially Lea,
> It takes me longer to find things these days, but this might be
> helpful to those wishing to do more research. According to the
> footnote, page 49 _American Slavery...American Freedom: The Ordeal
> of Colonial VA_ by Edmund S. Morgan, Norton Co:NY 1975 which is used
> as a text for a class at Univ of OK ...
>
> "Virtually everything now known about the Indians of the VA region,
> apart from the meager archeological evidence, is derived from five
> accounts: Capt. John Smith's writings in _Travels and Works_, Edward
> Arber ed. (Edinburgh 1910), (Smith's early writings, in a more reliable
> transcript, are in Barbour, _Jamestown Voyages); a brief account by
> Henry Spelman, printed in the introduction to Smith, _Travels & Works
> I, ci-cxiv; William Strachey, _Historie of Travell_; Thomas Hariot's
> _Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land of VA (Quinn, _Roanoke
> Voyages, I, 314-87); and Robert Beverley, _The History and Present
> State of VA_, Louis B. Wright ed. (Chapel Hill, NC 1947). Beverley
> wrote in 1705 and thus knew the Indians only after they had had
generations
> of contact with the English. Hariot, of course, was familiar only with
the
> Indians south of the Chesapeake, and therefore not all of what he says is
> applicable. Strachey copied large sections of his work from Smith, but
> added details of his own (some of which do not appear wholly plausible).
> There are also a few useful observations in a letter of the Rev. John
Clayton,
> printed in David I. Bushnell, "VA from Early Records," _American Anthro-
> pologist_, IX (1907), 41-44 and in an anonymous "Account of the Indians
> in VA," dated 1689, Stanley Pargellis, ed. WMQ, 3rd ser. XVI (1959), 228-
> 43."
>
> The three works cited for the statement about VA tribes within the
> text are: Maurice A. Monk, "The Aboriginal Population of Tidewater VA",
> in _American Anthropologist_, n.s. XLVI (1944), 193-208; Nancy O.
> Lurie, "Indian Cultural Adjustment to European Civilization" in James
> M. Smith, ed _Seventeenth-Century America: Essays in Colonial History_
> (Chapel Hill, NC 1959) p. 33-60.
>
> I found this interesting tidbit while looking for more on the "Opes".
> Footnote page 76 of Morgan book: "The Pocahontas story does not appear
in
> Smith's first accounts of his experience (citing "Travels & Works" plus
> Barbour, _Jamestown Voyages I_) but in his later and larger _Generall
> Historie of VA, New England and the Summer Isles_ (_Travels & Works II_,
> p400, 531. See also ibid I, cxv-cxviii).
>
> Morgan doesn't specifically cite anything for Opechancanough as
> brother of Powhatan who takes over when Powhatan dies c1620, but the
> statement is between _Records of VA Company_ and Smith _Travels and
> Works II_. Have fun Lea Linda
>
> Linda Sparks Starr
> starr81@ix.netcom.com
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data
Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb please visit
http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>

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W. R. Cocke PapersHey Jim Richardson....appreciate your volunteering on this one. Sure hope
they have it indexed for you. Over a thousand pages sounds like a bear.

Purpose of this email is to suggest that you might also at the same time want
to take a look at
Cocke Family Papers
Mss C 6457
a/1000

Since I don't know your P. interest specific or general these may or may not
be of interest to you. Its a set of 50 pages, 90% of which is correspondence
between a Mr. Cocke and Dr. Wm. B. Hall of Selma on the Poythress family
beginning with Francis. For the most part it is a one-way correspondence
FROM Dr. Hall and unfortunately he starts all his letters "Dear Mr. Cocke" so
we never learn WHICH Mr. Cocke. In turn, when Mr. Cocke writes all that is
on the carbon copy in "the papers" is "Sincerely" because Mr. Cocke would
have penned below Frank or Jim or Billy Bob or whatever his Christian name
was and done so on the original.

The correspondence implies to me that Mr. Cocke may have been something of a
guru for Dr. Hall as most of the material is correspondence from Dr. Hall
asking for "opinion" on various "studies" which Hall attaches. Since
virtually all of the Hall studies appear in later editions of the Wm and Mary
Quarterly and the Cocke papers seem to be only working notes for getting to
the material presented in the Wm & Mary articles I had previously elected not
to do much with them.

Don't know if you have been into the card catalog at Va. HIst. Soc. on a
Poythress search before or not.....but there is a stack of cards about 2"
thick for Poythress.

The staff there (and I hope you tell them so) is without peer in terms of
dedication and help for the researcher.

Best,

Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Mary Elizabeth BLAND-VA-1819John, this one may be a tad off the wall for your specific query but the
Cocke Papers in the Virginia Historical Society (original papers in folders
for which the VHA grants public access) have a page # C-34 titled "Synopsis
of the Poythress and Bland Connections". The papers are Mss C6457, a/1000.

I have not worked the Blands in any way other than their Poythress
connections but my cursory looks tell me they present a problem similar to
one the Poythresses have with everybody named Francis, John, or Thomas. In
the case of the Blands it looks as if everybody is named Richard or Mary or
Elizabeth.

The chart in question begins in 1665 and while the "last" date is not shown,
my guess is last person listed would have died mid to late 1800's which is
prior to the time frame of your specific query. I don't see the specific
Mary Elizabeth of your query either but there are several shown as just
"Elizabeth" or just "Mary".

This compliation was prepared by Dr. William B. Hall of Selma in 1933. Dr.
Hall and
Bolling Batte did the majority of Poythress work for the colonial time frame
and both, while not infallible, were sticklers for detail and accuracy.
Either may have "missed" something but when they actually put something on
paper you can pretty much take it to the bank.

If this page would be of interest to you, just pop me your snail mail address
and I'll burn you off a xerox copy and mail it to you.

Regards,

Maynard Poythress (vkratliff@aol.com)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Ronald CockeJim Richardson:

Further search suggests almost conclusively that Dr. Hall's Cocke
correspondent was indeed Ronald. In a letter dated 31 May 1933, Dr. Hall
says to another correspondent (a Mr. Eggleston, of Mss EG396b, Eggleston
Family Papers, Va. Hist. Soc.):

"I have heard very little from Mr. Ronald Cocke in some time and fear very
much that his auto accident was very much more serious than I knew of.
However, I have written him today....."

Since there is no letter from Dr. Hall to Mr. Cocke in "The Cocke Papers"
that is dated 31 May 1933 (or any where close), perhaps the letter would be
in "The
Ronald Cocke Papers" that you will be checking.

The above is only to suggest that if something in the Ronald Cocke papers
needs a recriprocal piece of paper it might well be found in "The Cocke
Papers". I doubt if
specifically finding a letter of 31 May 1933 would be of much consequence.

Regards,

Maynard

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Re: Poythress ProgenitorsCraig R. ScottIf I could make a recommedation in the progenitor list generation issue.
Most of us have computer programs that will generate a decendancy report. If
you would generate such a report on paper and on disk (in a standard IBM or
MAC word processing format, ascii or rtf) and send it to me I could then
take the first person on the list (the progenitor) and assign a family code
to it and create the modified Henry numbers for the descendants. Then I
could provide Al with a list of progenitors (a webpage or three in itself)
that are linked to the descendancy charts (not a database yet, but a list
for each progenitor). We could also include the probable connections by
linking the progenitor back to the probable family, so that it would all fit
together (we might have to color code it or something, say red for WARNING
this connection is flakey). I will try to create such a thing for my
Benjamin over the next week as a sample.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Batte Info as Current Interest StmtsSorry, Barbara, but I was traveling over Thanksgiving and am just now
bringing up the tail end of an excellent message exchange among you on
this topic. I heartily support this idea of compiling our progenitors.
Yes, there may be other things we could be doing, but this is a good,
practical, next step for us. I will suggest we publish this progenitor
list on our website in the most simple form possible - perhaps a table
with the following information for each progenitor:

1) progenitor code
2) name
3) birth date/location
4) death date/location
5) spouse
6) primary source
7) "sponsoring" list member or secondary source
8) comments

For item (7) we could perhaps cite you for James P., BPW for David P., me
for Lewis P., etc. - someone who can provide further information on
evident descendants. In the event of no obvious list member, a secondary
source may be cited (e.g. Batte archives, Hall archives).

Best regards,
Lyn

On Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:53:55 -0500 Charles Neal
writes:
>...Lyn Poythress Baird's recently accomplished magnificent spreadsheet
organized the Batte information that is on Batte's cards at the Library
of VA. Lyn, having worked your way thru creating that, what would be
your advice on perhaps using the spreadsheet to organize additional info
that we can "compile" together?

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Poythress ProgenitorsBarbara, perhaps I am the only one on the list with Lewis POYTHRESS as an
evidenced progenitor, so I will officially submit his name. Then, in the
name of Mr. Batte, I would submit the following as candidate progenitors:

Francis "Capt" (P-1)
Charles (P-1a)
Charles (P-1b)
??? (P-1c) husband of Elizabeth ? and father of George
Francis "of Amelia" (P-1d)
Richard (P-1e)
??? (P-1f) husband of Georgiana Ravenscroft

All these are included in the Batte table on our website. As has now
been often repeated, the letter suffixes are my own invention and
addition; Mr. Batte chooses to leave uncoded any Poythress which he
cannot link to the known immigrant Captain Francis P. This above codes
may not be what we choose to use, however, I cite them in the absence of
any other available at this time.

Best regards,
Lyn

On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 00:33:23 -0600 "Albert R. Tims"
writes:
>Poythress List,
>
>Looks like Barbara Neal is going to kick things off for us. We can
>easily
>add Francis Poythress, Thomas Poythress, James Speed Poythress, and
>probably a whole pile of those Georgia Poythress folk. Heck, we have
>some
>in North Carolina, Louisiana, Florida and Mississippi to add to the
>list
>too. It might be useful for us to add a sentence, or reference,
>stating
>our most likely suspects, if any, for parentage.
>
>----------
>> From: Charles Neal
>> To: INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: Poythress Progenitors
>> Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 11:56 PM
>>
>> Al,
>>
>> Tomorrow, I'll try to put together the known (& sources for it)
>basic
>info
>> for James Edward Poythress & send it to you. I, too, have no ideas
>on
>> format, but Craig's experience may serve us in good stead here. How
>about
>> it, Cousin Craig?
>>
>> BPN
>>
>>
>> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>>
>>
>
>
>==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data
>Cooperative. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please visit
>http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>
>
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Ann Poythress (es)Lou, this is a citation of an Ann Poythress in Brunswick Co., lifted from
Carol Morrison's transcription of DB14 available on the Brunswick
website:

This Indenture made this seventh Day of June 1779 BETWEEN John Parker of
the County of Brunswick of the one part and Henry Maclin of the County
aforesaid of the other part . . . for and in consideration of the sum of
one hundred and fifty pounds . . . doth give grant bargain and sell unto
the said Henry Maclin . . . one certain tract or parcel of Land lying and
being in the County of Brunswick and containing one hundred acres . . .
it being part of a tract of two hundred acres to be divided between John
Parker and Thomas Parker lying on both sides of Sturgeon Creek and
bounded as followeth and joining the lands of Henry Briggs John Mitchel
and Jane Parker . . . [Signature of John Parker not shown]. Indenture was
witnessed by John Haskins, Catharine Trotter (her mark), Joseph Maclin,
Elizabeth Maclin (her mark) and Ann POYTHRESS (her mark). Brunswick
County Court July 28th 1788. This Indenture was proved by the oaths of
John Haskins a witness thereto and having been proved on the 22d November
1779 by the oaths of Joseph Maclin and Elizabeth Maclin also witnesses
thereto is ordered to be recorded. Deed Book 14, page 371.

As I recall, the only Poythress surnames found in DB14 (spanning roughly
the 1780's) that are not indicated to be non-residents are Ann P. and
Thomas P., both as witnesses.

Further, you may have already noted that the Batte cards cite seven
Ann(e)s - all (P-1) descendants - as follows:

BAD
BGA
BHA D
DB
DCF
BEA
BEB B

I'm guessing your citations are of BAD and DCF, the only two for whom Mr.
Batte does not cite spouses.

Happy researching,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 11:06:09 -0600 "JAMES L. POOLE"
writes:
>Nothing like a couple of Poythress "wannabes"... It appears that
>Steve Wall and I are cousins, and share a common quandary and
>interest.
>
>I believe that, indeed, John Wall of NC was the son of John Wall,
>Sr., of Brunswick Co., VA, and that the younger John Wall was married
>to Ann Poythress. I know that his wife's name was Ann, and I believe
>she was a Poythress based upon the occurrence of the name Poythress
>in the childrens' names of succeeding generations. Steve, my
>detailed conjectures and supporting evidence -- but not proof -- is
>documented in my Wall family information which is available through
>the Poythress web site (on the allied family page). As an
>alternative, I will be happy to send you the file if you would like.
>
>But my most pressing question is which Ann Poythress married John
>Wall, Jr. To the group, I'll pose the question as:
>
>Has anyone found a positive trace, or even good conjecture, regarding
>the fates of the two Ann Poythress (cousins) who seem to have
>disappeared into the oblivion: 1) Ann Poythress, daughter of John
>Poythress (c. 1650 - c. 1724) and Mary ???, and 2) Ann Poythress,
>daughter of Joshua Poythress (c. 1660 - 1739) and ????. Both Anns
>were named in the wills of their fathers (so they did exist), and
>both were apparently unmarried at the time the wills were written.
> [The latter is the one that I believe is most likely to have married
>John Wall, Jr., but the theory is weak.]
>
>Lou Poole
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Spreadsheet on Poythress WebThanks much to Al for putting this on the Web. I should make one
clarification to Al's statement, "Lyn's work covers what we have come to
call Chart A or Part A." The table covers ALL Poythress surname persons
in the card file as published by LVA. Yes, this includes the 71 persons
listed both in Chart A and in the card file; these will have references
in the first column of the table. However, it also includes the 28
persons in the card file not shown in Chart A; these will have blanks in
the first column of the table. Put another way, when it comes to
Poythress surnames documented by Mr. Batte, this table includes them all
- Chart A, Chart B, everything. In fact, if one looks at the "D" section
of the table, starting with Major Francis Poythress (P-1)D, THIS IS CHART
B, at least as far as Poythress surnames go. Of course, Batte likely
documented other descendants of daughters - I have not researched this.
However, when it comes to Poythress surnames, this table expresses
everything I can find Mr. Batte to have documented in his card files. In
this respect all that would remain to be done, if one were to desire,
would be to convert the information from tabular to chart form. As one
becomes more familiar with the "Descent" column of the table (as sorted
by Descent), the charting tends to emerge in one's mind and may become
less interesting to commit to media. If anyone should find among the
Batte cards other Poythress surnames not in this table, this will be
welcomed news; but these constitute all I've been able to find.

Happy researching,
Lyn Poythress Baird
llbaird@juno.com

--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "Albert R. Tims"
To: "Poythress Genealogy List"
Subject: Batte Poythress Chart A -- Spreadsheet on Poythress Web
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:07:20 -0600
Message-ID: <199711300653.AAA12878@mail.minn.net>

Poythress List,

I have converted Lyn Baird's spreadsheet version of Robert Bolling
Batte's
study of some of the early Poythress lines into a table page on the
Poythress Research Web. Lyn's work covers what we have come to call
Chart
A or Part A. Lyn's excellent notes can be found at the bottom of the
table. Lyn also indexes his work against the Batte note cards now online
at the Library of Virginia site.

You can go directly to the spreadsheet via:
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/BatteA.html

Or, you can find it under the Studies and Charts button on the homepage
of
the Poythress Research Web. As a reminder, the Poythress Web URL is
http://www1.minn.net/~atims/

Best,

Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====

--------- End forwarded message ----------

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/04/1997 3:03:12
Re: Mrs. Mary Poythress and Robert WynneAl, you wrote, " Francis is believed to have married Rebecca Coggin
(Coggan)." Would you, or any list members, have any comments on the
"corrections" in Mr. Batte's cards from "Coggin" to "Tye"? I am quite
ignorant in this area and have no preconceptions - just interested in
these strikeovers done either by Mr. Batte or by a later editor. See my
note in the Batte table at (P-1) D. -lpb

On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 00:14:44 -0600 "Albert R. Tims"
writes:
>Poythress List,
>
>Re: From: Asrt388@aol.com Subject: Mrs. Mary Poythress and Robert
>Wynne
>>
>> Does anyone have any information on Mrs. Mary Poythress (ca 1624 -
>ca
>1675)
>> (I assume her married name) who was married to Robert Wynne
>(12/28/1622 -
>> 8/16/1678) ? What Poythress did she marry? What was her maiden
>name,
>etc.?
>
>This Mary (Poythress) Wynne was first married to Capt. Francis
>Poythress.
>We don't have proof of her maiden name, although some speculate that
>it was
>Sloman. Mary and Francis are believed to have had four children
>(Francis,
>Jane, John and Thomas). Jane is believed, by some accounts, to have
>married Thomas Rolfe and to have been the mother of Jane Rolfe.
>Evidence
>suggests that Thomas returned to England. We don't know if he ever
>returned
>to Virginia. John married Christian Peebles. Francis is believed to
>have
>married Rebecca Coggin (Coggan).
>
>You may want to visit the Poythress web page for additional details.
>http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>In particular, take a look at the Allied Family Information section
>under
>the Study of the Poythress and Wall families. This account is a good
>summary of the extant records.
>
>Hope this little overview helps.
>
>Best,
>Al Tims
>
>
>
>>
>> My information is that they died in Charles City Co., Va.
>>
>> She and Robert are listed on chart 151 of "Royal Ancestors of some
>American
>> Families" by Michel L. Call. Any help or information would be
>appreciated.
>
>
>==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>
>
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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William Ronald Cocke Papers -- SurveyAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Jim Richardson has done us a great service already with his survey of the
Cocke papers described below. Jim's suggestion sounds fantastic!

Best,
Al
------------------------

Al, visited the collection today to determine scope of project and plan
method of making reports.

Collection is indexed by surname by call. I called for POYTHRESS items and
received about 100 papers.

Papers are:
genealogy notes, most typewritten, giving relationship & location.
Letters from Dr. Wm. B. Hall comparing notes

The VHS will copy these papers for $25.00 to $50.00. The rate is $.25 per
page + other charges for the number of copies requested.

FOR THE REPORT, I suggest:

First - I believe we should copy the papers, ask for a small help in the
cost, and make them available to those of interest. Should there be ten
request, my guess is the cost would be between $3.00 to $6.00 or less. I
am willing to contribute $25.00 to the study which will reduce the
foregoing.

Second - I will accept special interest request by e-mail. Research the
interest and reply on the POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com or direct e-mail.

Al, let me know if you agree with this approach or have other suggestions.

Jim Richardson

Jim Richardson

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Re: Prince George/Norfolk connections???Lea L. DowdPaul,

Once again you are wonderful...... How was your Thanksgiving and trip?

Many thanks,
Lea

----------

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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FRANCIS POYTHRESSjonasGreetings,
I am doing research for a book on my ancestor, the Rev. Francis Clark
who left Mecklenburg Co, VA in 1783 and settled in the Mercer (now Boyle)
County of Kentucky. He was the first Methodist minister west of the
Alleghenies. When he died in 1799 one of the clergy who officiated at his
funeral was the Rev. Francis Poythress. Rev. Poythress (1732-1810) began
his ministry in 1775 and served the Carolina circuit. He also served in
VA, NC, KY, and TN. He was one of the founders of Bethel Academy.
Are you familiar with this Poythress? If so, are you aware of any
journals he might have kept?

Thank you,

Jerrie E. Jones, Ph.D.
Sedalia, MO
jonas@iland.net

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Mrs. Mary Poythress and Robert WynneLea L. DowdThere was quite a lengthy court record on Rebecca that we discussed
previously. Charles City Co., VA, Ct. Orders 1687-1695 P. 505 and 508.
Perhaps she was not a daughter, but a step-daughter of John Coggin.

John Jane testified that Rebecca ( relict of Francis Poythress m. second
Charles Bartholomew))and Frances (Bartholomew's first and second wives) are
daughters of one mother and two different fathers. Thomas Blighton
testified that he had visited the home of John Coggin and often heard
Coggan's wife call sd Rebecca and Frances daughters and the sd daughters
own themselves sisters. John Bishop swore that Frances and Rebecca were
sisters and Joshua Wynn sd that they were always taken as sisters by one
mother.

It appears that John Coggin/Coggan was married twice.... One of them was
Joyce, widow of Capt. Richard TYE who died bef 1661 Charles City Co. His
second wife is "supposedly" a BLAND. I think this is where the confusion
comes from.

There is a court case between Charles Bartholomew and John Cogan in 1689.
This may shed more light on the actual parentage of the "sisters". If
someone wants to order the originals, they are Charles City Co., VA, Ct.
Orders 1687-1695 P. 212 and 220.
Hope that this helps.

Lea

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Poythress Message ArchiveAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Great news - our web based message archive is up and running for December.

Go to this url for a look-see.
http://lists.rootsweb.com/~archiver/lists/POYTHRESS-L/1997/

Just click on the December file to see the messages for the month -- all
threaded and neatly indexed by subject line. Way cool!

Best,

Al Tims

ps -- I'm out of town until Monday -- so no major discoveries until I get
back :-).

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: FRANCIS POYTHRESSAlbert R. TimsJerrie,

Great query! We've been trying to place this fellow for quite some time.
It appears that you may know as much, if not more, about him than we do.
For starters, I'm inclosing a little bit of history. Some of the others on
this list may know more. Many of us are very interested in learning more.
Glad to have your new information.

Best,
Al Tims

Reference Source: History of Kentucky, by Lewis Collins, and J. A. & U.P.
James, published 1847. Reprinted by Henry Clay Press, Lexington, Ky., 1968,
pp. 125-126.

[Jessamine county].

FRANCIS POYTHRESS was admitted into the traveling connection at a
conference held in Baltimore, on the 21st of May,1776. In 1778, he was sent
out to Kentucky in the capacity of an elder. As a preacher, few in those
days excelled him. His voice was clear and musical; his knowledge of the
scriptures vast and accurate; his sermons bedewed with his tears in his
closet, fell as the dews of life upon the hearts of his congregation;
sinners trembled before the Lord, and the keen flash of the Spirit's sword
was felt passing all through the soul, discerning by its brightness, the
"thoughts and intents of the heart." In the visit Bishop Asbury made to
Kentucky in 1790, a single note made in his journal pours a flood of light
upon the secret of his success. He says: "I met the preachers in
conference," and adds: "Brother Poythress is much alive to God." Sermons
anointed with the spirit of God, and baptized in the blood of the Lamb,
will always "burn as fire in dry stubble." Brother Poythress continued to
travel in the west, mainly in Kentucky, until the spring of 1800, when he
attended the general conference held in Baltimore, at which conference he
was appointed to a district in North Carolina, including circuits from the
seashore to the summit of the Blue Ridge. The excessive draughts made upon
his mind and body, by the labor of this district, unsettled his mental
balance, so that during the summer he became partially deranged.

In the fall of 1800, he returned to Kentucky to his sister's, the widow
Prior, who then resided in Jessamine County, about three miles from
Nicholasville, where he remained a confirmed lunatic until his death.

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William Ronald Cocke Papers -- SurveyCharles NealJim Richardson & All,

I had read Jim's excellent suggestion, and had started drafting a note
saying "Please count me in, on sharing the expense of copying the Poythress
items in the Wm Ronald Cocke Papers at VHS" when I remembered that sometime
back (just before the big earthquake out here in January '94, as it turns
out), I had ordered a LOT of photocopies from VHS & they still await in
their original package for analysis. Thought to myself, "I better find
that package & double check JUST IN CASE"

Glad I checked!! Though I will readily admit that I have not taken the
time to go thru it, I find that my package, containing my $63.50-worth of
copies ("$6 service & postage fee for each 50 copies," plus the $.25 per
page), includes 182 copies from the Wm Cocke Papers, VHS # "Mss 1 C6457a"
as follows:

Poythress Family - 59 exposures
Epes Family - 27 exp.
Lewis Family - 51 exp.
Smith Family - 33 exp.

Heaven only knows why I got 59 exposures of Poythress items, and you, Jim,
received about 100 papers on your visit. (?)

At that time, I had ordered the Smith stuff since I thought the middle name
of my gggrandmother (who married James Edward Poythress) was "Smith;" I
later learned that apparently her middle name was Speed. I had ordered the
Epes and Lewis stuff just as a fishing expedition.

EVERY page is stamped "Not to be reproduced without the permission of The
Virginia Historical Society - This material may be protected by the
copyright law (Title 17, US Code). Most pages were not-great carbon copies
to begin with, and not from a sharp typewriter, so making copies from these
copies of carbons would render them about unreadable anyway.

So, while I hereby sheepishly admit I do not need copies for myself -- at
least not of 59 of the exposures -- I still would appreciate so much, Jim,
YOU going thru the material & reporting to us all about it, that I will
gladly send a share of the costs involved -- around $5-10, if we have other
folks willing to take you up on helping with the costs & hearing about your
findings.

BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

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Re: Poythress ProgenitorsCharles NealGreat nominees of more progenitors from Lyn P. Baird, and good further
explanations about his spreadsheet! Thanks, Lyn. I hope to soon have time
to help you in comparing your spreadsheet info to the cardfile.

I would like to hereby correct myself, too. I incorrectly named James
Speed Poythress as one. We know that David Poythress was his father (which
would make David & James Edward brothers, or at least half-brothers, since
James Speed P was James Edward P's nephew).

BPN

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Re: Batte Info as Current Interest StmtsCharles NealLyn,

Sounds like a logical beginning to me; we should do at least that much.
Craig has experience putting to use even more info, giving
greater-matching-together capabilities, from his work on a huge Scott
database. He, I think, is going to put together soon a sample (using his
Benjamin Poythress as a progenitor) of something good we could try. I look
forward to seeing his sample.

BPN

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Re: Methodist Minister FRANCIS POYTHRESSCharles Neal12-4-97

Re: Message text written by Jerrie E. Jones to
INTERNET:POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
>> I am doing research for a book on my ancestor, the Rev. Francis Clark
who left Mecklenburg Co, VA in 1783 and settled in the Mercer (now Boyle)
County of Kentucky. He was the first Methodist minister west of the
Alleghenies. When he died in 1799 one of the clergy who officiated at his
funeral was the Rev. Francis Poythress. Rev. Poythress (1732-1810) began
his ministry in 1775 and served the Carolina circuit. He also served in
VA, NC, KY, and TN. He was one of the founders of Bethel Academy.
Are you familiar with this Poythress? If so, are you aware of any
journals he might have kept?
Jerrie E. Jones, Ph.D; Sedalia, MO; jonas@iland.net <<

Jerrie,

I'm copying this message to Warren Napier, with whom I corresponded about
this Francis Poythress, and who did a study of "Early Methodist Preachers
in Western Virginia, 1765-1825" back in 1988. Warren had written me during
our Fall '96-Jan.'97 correspondence (during which time he was completing
his dissertation & was very pressed for time), much of interest, some of
which I luckily printed off but apparently did not have saved on a
secure-enough back-up disc, since my previous computer from that time
period is crashed, and I'm working on a newer one.

Warren mentioned in his message of Oct. 31,'96, "the Upper Room in
Nashville has some microfilmed journals of preachers who were in western VA
and KY, such as John Kobler, John Littlejohn." I do not recall now
whether Warren knew whether or not Poythress had left a journal.

Warren did make available to me, for the cost of photocopying & postage
(about $10) a copy of his above-mentioned 1988 paper which mentions
Poythress among others, and I enjoyed reading it, though I do not now
recall whether your Francis Clark was mentioned or not.

Warren had numerous ideas on logical things we could pursue for more
research on Francis Poythress, and I am ashamed to admit that my good
intentions have failed to pursue any of his excellent ideas.

Warren, if you are still at this address: Can you locate your suggestions
in your messages to me back in Fall '96 & copy them in a response to this
message to both Jerrie Jones & to our Poythress List? If so, we would much
appreciate hearing from you. Hope this finds you & yours doing well.

Barbara Poythress Neal
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com OR 73622.2543@compuserve.com

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RE: Ann Poythress (es) [& another lost Ann]JAMES L. POOLELyn, thanks for your information and interest in my "cause." But I
think you may have found another "lost" Ann Poythress.

The Ann Poythress I seek -- who married John Wall -- was married
about 1740. The prevailing family lore is that the Wall family
migrated to Anson County, NC, in the 1750s, but no proof has been
found (by me at least) to confirm this. Whatever happened to John
and Ann (Poythress) Wall, they do not appear in the Brunswick County
records after the 1750s. And the fact that you found an Ann
Poythress (not Ann Wall) indicates to me that the one you found in
the records is a younger, unmarried woman. So who was she?

Looks like the "family" has another "orphaned" Poythress to place....

Lou Poole

On Thursday, December 04, 1997 3:04 PM, llbaird@juno.com
[SMTP:llbaird@juno.com] wrote:
> Lou, this is a citation of an Ann Poythress in Brunswick Co.,
lifted
> from
> Carol Morrison's transcription of DB14 available on the Brunswick
> website:
>
> This Indenture made this seventh Day of June 1779 BETWEEN John
> Parker of
> the County of Brunswick of the one part and Henry Maclin of the
> County
> aforesaid of the other part . . . for and in consideration of the
> sum of
> one hundred and fifty pounds . . . doth give grant bargain and sell
> unto
> the said Henry Maclin . . . one certain tract or parcel of Land
> lying and
> being in the County of Brunswick and containing one hundred acres .
> . .
> it being part of a tract of two hundred acres to be divided between
> John
> Parker and Thomas Parker lying on both sides of Sturgeon Creek and
> bounded as followeth and joining the lands of Henry Briggs John
> Mitchel
> and Jane Parker . . . [Signature of John Parker not shown].
> Indenture was
> witnessed by John Haskins, Catharine Trotter (her mark), Joseph
> Maclin,
> Elizabeth Maclin (her mark) and Ann POYTHRESS (her mark). Brunswick
> County Court July 28th 1788. This Indenture was proved by the oaths
> of
> John Haskins a witness thereto and having been proved on the 22d
> November
> 1779 by the oaths of Joseph Maclin and Elizabeth Maclin also
> witnesses
> thereto is ordered to be recorded. Deed Book 14, page 371.
>
> As I recall, the only Poythress surnames found in DB14 (spanning
> roughly
> the 1780's) that are not indicated to be non-residents are Ann P.
> and
> Thomas P., both as witnesses.
>
> Happy researching,
> Lyn Poythress Baird
> llbaird@juno.com

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Re: Methodist Ministers Including FRANCIS POYTHRESSCharles Neal12-5-97

Warren (with copy to Jerrie & to Poythress List),

Good to hear from you again. If Jerrie wants a copy of your paper, I'll
certainly be glad to get a photocopy made. (Jerrie -- It is 68 pages of
text & almost that many of addended maps, etc. Lots of thorough footnotes.
My one regret is that Warren at the time he wrote it saw no need to attach
a genealogists' index of names & their page numbers.) It would run
about $10, including postage.

Since you, too, Warren, have deleted the electronic version of our earlier
correspondence, in which you suggested several possibilities for
researching early Methodist ministers, I'll list here below your earlier
suggestions. Perhaps it will tickle your memory-bank regarding some
additional sources you might not have mentioned earlier.

All of below source info is from Warren Napier's messages of 10/31/96:

- Much of following should be available in any United Methodist-related
college, and probably some others, and certainly at Methodist seminaries

- METHODIST HISTORY journal: an excellent publication at only $15/yr, and
might want to at the same time join the United Methodist Historical
Society. Can subscribe thru:
General Commission on Archives & History of the United Methodist Church;
36 Madison Av; Madison, NJ 07940

- archives & publications of the various annual conferences (for example,
folks in southern NJ sometimes do an annual publication called THE
HISTORICAL TRAIL; '96's happens to be on Asbury. . . Info on back cover of
METH HISTORY, above)

- Dissertations (which one can do a search on) "There's a fairly recent one
called Taking Heaven by Storm by John Wigger with a lot of info on
individual circuit riders (don't think he included Poythress)."

- James Finley, Meth preacher & head of Wyandot Indian mission in Ohio did
some sketches of people (which included Poythress), SKETCHES OF WESTERN
METHODISM, BIOGRAPHICAL, HISTORICAL, AND MISCELLANEOUS, ILLUSTRATIVE OF
PIONEER LIFE. Cincinnati: Methodist Book Concern for the author, 1854.
Also Finley's AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF JAMES B. FINLEY or PIONEER LIFE IN THE WEST,
ed. W. P. Strickland. Cincinnati: Methodist Book Concern, 1853.

- by William Warren Sweet, RISE OF METHODISM IN THE WEST "Important
reference for the Western Conference, including Ohio, KY, & TN"

- The 3-volume THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN METHODISM, Emory Stevens Bucke, ed.
Note: "Vol. 1, p. 388 includes a quote from Poythress' fellow preachers
of the Western Conference writing in their Journal of 1802: We are tenderly
concerned for his support and welfare, -- and therefore Resolve, that his
name shall stand on our Journal; and that he shall have a proportionable
Claim on the Western Conference for his support. -- which [Warren noted]
was no small thing -- money always hard to come by for preacher support --
so this money for supporting Francis Poythress was coming out of his
friends' pockets."

- "The contemporary publication of Francis Asbury's journals, chock full of
all kinds of notes about lots of people and places (in addition to his own
-- it's well annotated): Elmer T. Clark, ed., THE JOURNAL AND LETTERS OF
FRANCIS ASBURY, 3 vols (2 journal, 1 of letters) Nashville: Abingdon
Press, 1958. His journal covers from 1771-1816, his death. The indexes
(one in vol. 2 & the other in vol. 3) are pretty accurate, so you should be
able to find all the Poythress references easily."

- "The best bibliography of major figures is Kenneth Rowe's UNITED
METHODIST STUDIES: BASIC BIBLIOGRAPHIES, 3rd ed. (important!), Nashville:
Abingdon 1992. It's not complete."

- "The UM seminaries, & perhaps UM colleges, will have or have access to
MINUTES OF THE ANNUAL CONFERENCES OF THE METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH FOR THE
YEARS 1773-1828 (NY: Mason and Lane, 1840) or a similar rendition. That's
where you get your lists of official appointments (important to keep in
mind that (1) they often changed (2) the early years had a series of
"annual conferences" in different areas that were combined into one list;
they covered several months difference in times and the time of the
conference might change from year to year; thus (3) the appointment is for
the following "year" which might start in Nov and might last 7-9 months
until the next."

(Glad we have archiving of our List messages now, thanks to Al so this
kind of message won't have to be re-written from scratch, no matter who, or
whose computer, deletes what now.)

Barbara
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com

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Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #156William A BridgforthAs a descendant of Anne Poythress (P-1)DB who married Burwell Green, I
would love to find out her "new number" and begin to commiserate with her
descendants (if any are on the list !). Any descendants out there ?????
Craig, what number would she be ??

Also believe "we" can add spouses/descendants of DA, DC, & DE. How do
"we" do this officially ??

P.S. Lyn, I still love my chart. Thanks again and Thanks for clarifying
about chart B. I'm going to try to add to it. The "D's" look puny next
to the "B's" !!!!!!

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com

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Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #157William A BridgforthLou Poole,

Found the following:

John Poythress I (1632-1720) lived in Prince George Co., VA married
Christian Peebles, daughter of David and Elizabeth Peebles. John
Poythress and Christian had twelve children, one of whom was: Josuha
Poythress I married ___ Hardyman
Joshua and ___ Hardyman had seven children:
IC3a. Josuha Poythress II married Mary Short
IC3b. William Poythress
IC3c. Littlebury Poythress
IC3d. dau. ___ Poythress married ___ Harwood
IC3e. Ann Poythress married ? John Wall
IC3f. Elizabeth Poythress married 1)Walter Boyd, 2) James Mills
IC3g. Mary Poythress married Peter Epes

Let me know how you do, please. Hope this might be helpful.

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com

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Re: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #157VKRatliffBill, seeing your post reminds me....I just got to finally ask this one...that
Hardyman thread lasts another 200 years. That marriage of Joshua to _____
Hardyman (spelled almost as many ways as Poythress) has been there forever and
is the logical obvious origin of the name since it was the lady's
surname...BUT....does any one on the wire have it earlier??? I seriously
doubt it but had to ask.

Maynard

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Re: HardymanVKRatliffHi, Lou.....sorry if I faked you out. I didn't say it well.

Seeing Bill Bridgforth mention the name again reminded me.....we have about a
dozen guys on the string with one variation or another of that Hardyman name
and if we know (pretty much for sure) that it was the surname of an early
Poythress bride logic would say thats probably the source.

However, given all the interlocking relationships of those folks....Blands,
Eppes'es, etc....I thought it was just worth asking if anybody had seen
Hardyman any earlier (or maybe even lateral to) the lady who m. Joshua just
to check and be sure we didn't have that Hardyman/Hardimon/Hardiman/etc.
coming from more than one source. Where DID all those Hardimans come from?

Think about it. We know the Batte Section A is not holy writ but the old boy
has been fairly reliable except for one omission that we know of and maybe
another bobble or two. Here we have Joshua marrying a Hardyman girl and for
their next six generations we DON'T see the name anywhere (unless the "H" in
"A. H." # 211 243 stands for Hardyman). And, in fact, I don't see another one
AT ALL on the Batte Section A which is all John's crowd.

And yet, the landscape is strewn with Poythress guys named Hardiman...even all
the way into mid 19th century Georgia....where did they all come from? If
Joshua and his wife didn't send the name on, who did? Maybe Joshua or his
wife were very close to a first cousin that was a son or daughter of Francis2.
Or, to keep it in the family, how about the possibility of a Hardiman guy or
gal marrying into Francis2's line, either in Francis2's generation or even a
later generation?

I can't seem to get that one off my fret list and into a comfortable spot on
the map.

Maynard

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RE: POYTHRESS-D Digest V97 #157JAMES L. POOLEBill, thanks for information. And, yep, this agrees with my best
guess. Notice, however, that the compiler/author seemed to have his
own doubts, since he included the question mark (?) by the entry for
Ann Poythress marrying (?) John Wall. Do you by any chance know
where this information came from, and if it had any sources or
comments included with it? (Kinda looks like the info from the Batte
chart..)

I may never find the definitive answer to my riddle. I figure if you
can't confirm 'em, then try to eliminate 'em. Since there were two
Ann Poythresses of whom I am aware who seemed to be of about the
right age to marry John Wall, it would help me greatly if I could at
least eliminate Ann, the daughter of John Poythress (d. ca. 1724) and
Mary Batte? Does anyone know what happened to her?

Lou Poole

On Saturday, December 06, 1997 3:53 PM, William A Bridgforth
[SMTP:wab705@juno.com] wrote:
> Lou Poole,
>
> Found the following:
>
> John Poythress I (1632-1720) lived in Prince George Co., VA
> married
> Christian Peebles, daughter of David and Elizabeth Peebles. John
> Poythress and Christian had twelve children, one of whom was:
> Josuha
> Poythress I married ___ Hardyman
> Joshua and ___ Hardyman had seven children:
> IC3a. Josuha Poythress II married Mary Short
> IC3b. William Poythress
> IC3c. Littlebury Poythress
> IC3d. dau. ___ Poythress married ___ Harwood
> IC3e. Ann Poythress married ? John Wall
> IC3f. Elizabeth Poythress married 1)Walter Boyd, 2) James Mills
> IC3g. Mary Poythress married Peter Epes
>
> Let me know how you do, please. Hope this might be helpful.
>
> Bill Bridgforth
> wab705@juno.com
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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> Data Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb
> please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>

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Francis and JohnCraig R. ScottThis is off the top of my head, and Francis, the immigrant has not exactly
been the focus of my research, so please bear with me a bit.

I always thought that 1637 was a good year for Francis being in the colony.
Then this year someone mentioned 1634 as the first record.

I always thought that ca. 1640 was a good year for the birth of John.

If the birth date is before 1634 should we not expect that there should be a
baptism for John in England?

Craig

At 04:52 PM 12/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Lou Poole,
>
>Found the following:
>
>John Poythress I (1632-1720) lived in Prince George Co., VA married
>Christian Peebles, daughter of David and Elizabeth Peebles. John
>Poythress and Christian had twelve children, one of whom was: Josuha
>Poythress I married ___ Hardyman
> Joshua and ___ Hardyman had seven children:
> IC3a. Josuha Poythress II married Mary Short
> IC3b. William Poythress
> IC3c. Littlebury Poythress
> IC3d. dau. ___ Poythress married ___ Harwood
> IC3e. Ann Poythress married ? John Wall
> IC3f. Elizabeth Poythress married 1)Walter Boyd, 2) James Mills
> IC3g. Mary Poythress married Peter Epes
>
>Let me know how you do, please. Hope this might be helpful.
>
>Bill Bridgforth
>wab705@juno.com
>
>
>==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data
Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb please visit
http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>
>
>
>

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.

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Re: HardymanVKRatliffLou, try this one on: simply the maiden name of Joshua's wife, on it's face,
neither suggests nor demonstrates the "staying power" that we see for
"Hardyman" in the history of the family.

A gambit of that era was to give a child a Christian name that was the surname
of someone rich or famous or both...and right in the same community. Or if
somebody
(likely a guy in that era) was rich and famous in your OWN family the name
tended to live on. A wife's name was likely to stand up if she came from a
rich and famous family that her husband's family was proud to marry
into......but in the context of this example, Hardyman demonstrably didn't
stand up on John's side of the family.

Acknowledging this one to be rank speculation, I'll glue it to the board very
lightly with a 3M Post-it: think about a female from Francis2's side marrying
one of those long-time-frame rich and famous Hardyman boys who made it in the
import/export biz? I guess its only worth keeping on a back burner brain cell
as we poke about in all those records.

Maynard

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RE: HardymanJAMES L. POOLEAh, now that I understand the question, it's a darned good one! I've
learned to try to trust my instinct, or to borrow a cliche: "where's
there's smoke, there's fire." I think you smell fire, and now that
I've been sensitized to it, I think I smell a whiff of it too.

It's just a hunch, but I'll bet the answer -- if there is one -- is
on the other side of the pond, or in the mercantile way-stations of
Barbados or Jamaica. The connection probably precedes their arrival
in America.

Speculating on the Barbados/Jamaica possibility, we've discussed that
the Poythresses seemed to belong to the merchant class, and I know
that the Hardymans were of this group -- John Hardyman/Hardiman seems
to have been one of the original entrepreneurs of America. I've
learned that a lot of goods and services for the new colonies came to
America via Barbados (in particular) and sometimes, Jamaica. In
fact, a lot of America's merchant families appear to have come to
America via Barbados, and to have conducted business through that
gateway with the aid of family members who remained on the island.
Has anyone done any research on our closely allied families in the
Barbados records? I think I will the next time I get the chance.

Lou Poole

On Saturday, December 06, 1997 11:23 PM, VKRatliff
[SMTP:VKRatliff@aol.com] wrote:
> Hi, Lou.....sorry if I faked you out. I didn't say it well.
>
> Seeing Bill Bridgforth mention the name again reminded me.....we
> have about a
> dozen guys on the string with one variation or another of that
> Hardyman name
> and if we know (pretty much for sure) that it was the surname of an
> early
> Poythress bride logic would say thats probably the source.
>
> However, given all the interlocking relationships of those
> folks....Blands,
> Eppes'es, etc....I thought it was just worth asking if anybody had
> seen
> Hardyman any earlier (or maybe even lateral to) the lady who m.
> Joshua just
> to check and be sure we didn't have that
> Hardyman/Hardimon/Hardiman/etc.
> coming from more than one source. Where DID all those Hardimans
> come from?
>
> Think about it. We know the Batte Section A is not holy writ but
> the old boy
> has been fairly reliable except for one omission that we know of
and
> maybe
> another bobble or two. Here we have Joshua marrying a Hardyman
girl
> and for
> their next six generations we DON'T see the name anywhere (unless
> the "H" in
> "A. H." # 211 243 stands for Hardyman). And, in fact, I don't see
> another one
> AT ALL on the Batte Section A which is all John's crowd.
>
> And yet, the landscape is strewn with Poythress guys named
> Hardiman...even all
> the way into mid 19th century Georgia....where did they all come
> from? If
> Joshua and his wife didn't send the name on, who did? Maybe
> Joshua or his
> wife were very close to a first cousin that was a son or daughter
of
> Francis2.
> Or, to keep it in the family, how about the possibility of a
> Hardiman guy or
> gal marrying into Francis2's line, either in Francis2's generation
> or even a
> later generation?
>
> I can't seem to get that one off my fret list and into a
comfortable
> spot on
> the map.
>
> Maynard
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb
> Data Cooperative. If you'd like to learn more about Rootsweb please
> visit http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>

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Children of John & Phoebe WorshamStarrHello everyone,
I thought some of your would interested in this message which came
across the WORSHAM-L list this weekend. I'm on both hoping to bump into
some TRAYLORs along the way. Note the following messages ... hope this
is news to somebody and not just a repeat. Linda

>From: Carlsonlw
>
>Elizabeth Harrel in her book "The Osbornes" p. 138-139 lists ten children for
>John Worsham b. abt 1653, d. bef 6 Oct 1729 and phoebe (?).
>
>His will, dated 9 June 1729 and recorded 6 Oct 1729, lists sons John,
>William, Daniel and daughters Elizabeth Marshall, Frances Rowlett, Mary
>Robertson, Martha Ward and Ann Osborn. That accounts for eight. Ms. Harrel
>lists a daughter who married (?) Francis (?) Poythress and a daughter (?)
>Worsham who married William Epes, son of Francis and Ann (Isham) Epes.
>
>Can someone enlighten me as to the first names of these two daughters or if
>the information is in error. John's willl refers to grandson Francis
>Pothyress. Since these 2 are not named in John's will, they would likely have
>him.
>
>
>Mr./Mrs./Ms. Carlson,

Interesting note. I have the following info from various sources and
would also like more info. My info differs from yours slightly. Please
keep me informed on what you find out.

Children of John & Phoebe Worsham
IA1. Elizabeth Worsham and married first to: Thomas Ligon. Elizabeth
Worsham married second to: Alexander Marshall
IA2. Capt. John Worsham m. Mary Wynne
IA3. John Worsham m. Agnes Osborne
IA4. William Worsham
IA5. Daniel Worsham
IA6. Mary Worsham m. Robertson
IA7. Anne Worsham m. Ward
IA8. female Worsham m. Poythress
IA9. female Worsham m. Epes

Bill Bridgforth
wab705@juno.com

[This is unsigned message; I forgot to copy her e-mail address.]

Because John Worsham's will names grandsons Isham Epes and Francis Poythress,
it is assumed that there were two daughters who married men by these names and
are now deceased. That seems the only way for him to have grandsons by that
name.

The father of the Epes one has been identified as William. Dorothy, do you
have the father of the other one?

>From: "Gee"

>Capt John WORSHAM and Phebe
>Children:
>John WORSHAM -Mary WYNNE
>
>William WORSHAM(1687- Dec 1748)-Lucy HAMLIN
>
>Daniel(1689-17 Aug 1727)-Judith ARCHER
>
>Elizabeth (1676-Feb 1743) m.(1) Thomas LIGGON (2)Alexander MARSHALL
>
>MMary WORSHAM(1683)-George ROBERTSON
>
>Martha WORSHAM(1694-1734)-Seth WARD
>
>Anne WORSHAM(1698)_Thomas OSBORNE
>
>Harriet WORSHAM(1692)- Francis POYTHRESS
>
>Frances WORSHAM(1681)-William ROWLETT on 12 Oct 1703
>
>Phebe WORSHAM(1698)-William EPPES

>From: Kim Rowlett

>This is what I have from many different sources:
>
>1 Captain John WORSHAM b: 1654 in ,Charles City, VA d: 09 June 1729 in
>Bermuda Hundred, Henrico, VA
> +Phebe or Judith (FARMER?) b: Abt. 1660 in ,Henrico, VA d: Bef. 06 June
>1729 in ,Henrico, VA
> 2 [1] Elizabeth WORSHAM b: Abt. 1676 in Henrico, VA d: 03 May 1743 in
>Henrico, VA
> +Thomas LIGON
> *2nd Husband of [1] Elizabeth Worsham:
> +Alexander MARSHALL
> 2 John WORSHAM b: Abt. 1679 in Henrico, VA d: 03 February 1750/51 in
>Chesterfield, VA
> +Mary WYNNE
> 2 Frances WORSHAM b: 1681 in Henrico, VA
> +William ROWLETT b: Abt. 1678 in Henrico, VA d: 05 May 1735 in
>Henrico, VA
> 2 Mary WORSHAM b: Abt. 1683 in Henrico, VA
> +George ROBERTSON
> 2 William WORSHAM b: 1687 in Henrico, VA d: Bef. December 1748 in
>Henrico, VA
> +Lucy HAMLIM
> 2 Daniel WORSHAM b: Abt. 1689 in Henrico, VA d: 17 August 1727 in
>Henrico, VA
> +Judith ARCHER
> 2 Martha WORSHAM b: Abt. 1694 in Henrico, VA d: Abt. 1734 in Henrico, VA
> +Seth WARD
> 2 Ann WORSHAM b: Abt. 1696 in Henrico, VA d: Aft. 1729 in Henrico, VA
> +Thomas OSBORNE
> 2 Phebe WORSHAM b: Abt. 1698 in Henrico, VA d: Bef. 1729
> +William EPPES
> 2 Hannah WORSHAM b: 1700 in Henrico, VA d: Bef. 1729 in Henrico, VA
> +Francis POLYTHRESS
>
>
>Kim Rowlett
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/07/1997 12:26:22
Collateral linesLea L. DowdI am going to impose on this wonderful group of researchers even thought
this is off subject. I am very curious and I know that this list has the
best researchers around. I could use some help.

In 1663, Richard Cocke wrote his will. It proved in 1665 in Henrico Co.,
VA. In his will, he clearly names two (2) sons Richard Cocke. One by each
wife. I am going crazy with Richard Cockes. The land given to each is very
close to each other and I am having difficulty separating them. Has anyone
ever straightened out these Richard's?. I would really appreciate the
help.

On a separate note, I have not heard back from the Chief of the Powhatan
tribe. The person that usually fields their questions referred mine to the
Chief. Hopefully, they can give us some answers.

Secondly, Helen Roundtree does quite a bit in her "Pocahontas's People on
Openchancanough not being Dom Luis. The one that really intrigues me is
the Indian secretary of George Thorpe. He (whoever he is) went to England
with Pocahontas. George Thorpe took him in, educated him and used him as a
secretary when he came back to VA. Does anyone know his name?

Many thanks,
Lea

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/08/1997 1:59:01
Children of John & Phoebe WorshamStarrHere's more from the WORSHAM-L list. If anyone wants to reply to the
WORSHAM list re: the POYTHRESS questions below, I'll be happy to forward
for you. Linda

>From: DGTUTTLE

>Hi all,
> I, too have the same names & spouses for the children of John & Phoebe
>Worsham as Kim Rowlett with the exception of the last two daughters. The
>first eight were named in John Worsham's will. Two grandsons by the names of
>Isham Epes and Francis Poythress were also named in John Worsham's will as
>Janelle Swearingen mentioned. Janelle also stated that the father of Isham
>Epes was identified as William Epes. His name came from Elizabeth J.
>Harrell's book, The Osbornes pg 139. Elizabeth Harrell stated William Epes d
>1725 & was son of Francis Epes & Ann Isham. Harrell did not give a source
>where she found this information. Because John did not name this daughter in
>his will and named her son Isham Epes, it has been assumed that she died
>before his will was written 6 June 1729 and proved 6 Oct 1729. Do any of you
>know if William Epes left a will?
> I have seen "Francis Epes His Ancestors and Descendants" by Eva Turner
Clark
>and copies a few pages but my pages do not include anything about Francis
Epes
>& Ann Isham's son William. I understand there is a new book out on the Epes
>family. Have any of you seen the new book and does it have any information
>about William Epes s/o Francis Epes & Ann Isham as having married a daughter
>of John & Phoebe?
> Has anyone seen another source that stated that the daughter of John &
>Phoebe md William Epes? If so, would you please let us know of the source.
> The other daughter that Kim Rowlett named was Hannah Worsham b 1700 who
>married Francis Poythress. There was a suit in 1738 in the Prince George
>County Records between Joshua Poythress and Francis Poythress vs Hannah
>Poythress, executrix of Francis Poythress, Deceased. (Prince George VA
Minute
>Book 1737-1740, p 94) Because John only named a grandson Francis
Poythress in
>his will, I it has been assumed that this daughter died before 1729.
> Kim, you also wrote that John Worsham's wife was Phebe or Judith (Farmer?)
>Would you tell all of us where you saw information that his wife could be
>Judith (Farmer?) We know that her name was Phebe when she & her husband John
>were witnesses to the will of Gilbert Elam in 1696 (Henrico Court Minutes
>1694-1701 p 107) She was unable to come into court to give her oath when the
>will was proved for she was "great with child."
> There was an Elizabeth Poythress born 11 Feb 1729 & Bapt 8 Apr 1730 in
>Bristol Parish, Prince George, VA. This Elizabeth was d/o Francis & Hannah
>Poythress. (Churchill Gibson Chamberlayne, Births From the Bristol Parish
>Register of Henrico, Prince George & Dinwiddie Counties, VA 1720-1798, p 78.
>Perhaps someone found this source and assumed Hannah was the daughter of John
>& Phebe.
> Jodie Gee wrote that one daughter was named Harriet Worsham instead of
>Hannah and that she md Francis Poythress. Jodie Gee would you please cite
>your source where this information was found? It would really help all of
us.
> Dorothy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Linda Sparks Starr
starr81@ix.netcom.com
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/08/1997 7:46:36
Re: FRANCIS POYTHRESSJerrie, while I do not have leads on a Francis Poythress diary, I will
offer something you have probably already found, the diary of his much
better known colleague, Francis Asbury. The following Asbury journal
entry, from a secondary source, references the collaboration between
Francis and Francis:

"this journal entry from Virginia, in 1787, was typical: 'Brother
Poythress frightened me with the idea of the Great Swamp, as the east end
of the Dismal, but I could not consent to ride sixty miles around, so we
ventured through. Neither we, nor our horses, received any injury,
praise the Lord!'"

Primary source: Elmer T. Clark, ed., The Journals and Letters of Francis
Asbury (Nashville, TN: Abingdon Press, 1958), 1:561

Secondary source: Marshall, Peter & David Manuel, From Sea to Shining
Sea (Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell, 1986), 78.

Best regards,
Lyn P. Baird
llbaird@juno.com

On Thu, 04 Dec 1997 23:17:21 -0600 jonas writes:
>Greetings,
> I am doing research for a book on my ancestor, the Rev. Francis
>Clark
>who left Mecklenburg Co, VA in 1783 and settled in the Mercer (now
>Boyle)
>County of Kentucky. He was the first Methodist minister west of the
>Alleghenies. When he died in 1799 one of the clergy who officiated at
>his
>funeral was the Rev. Francis Poythress. Rev. Poythress (1732-1810)
>began
>his ministry in 1775 and served the Carolina circuit. He also served
>in
>VA, NC, KY, and TN. He was one of the founders of Bethel Academy.
> Are you familiar with this Poythress? If so, are you aware of any
>journals he might have kept?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Jerrie E. Jones, Ph.D.
>Sedalia, MO
>jonas@iland.net
>
>
>
>
>==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
>The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>
>
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/08/1997 8:11:04
Re: Children of John & Phoebe WorshamAlbert R. TimsLinda,

This could be important! The maiden name of Hanna Poythress has eluded us
for quite some time. I do hope the evidence of this marriage/relationship
is more than just speculation. Thanks for the alert.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
> From: Starr
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Children of John & Phoebe Worsham
> Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 8:46 AM
>
> Here's more from the WORSHAM-L list. If anyone wants to reply to the
> WORSHAM list re: the POYTHRESS questions below, I'll be happy to forward
> for you. Linda
>
>
> >From: DGTUTTLE
>
> >Hi all,
> > I, too have the same names & spouses for the children of John & Phoebe
> >Worsham as Kim Rowlett with the exception of the last two daughters.
The
> >first eight were named in John Worsham's will. Two grandsons by the
names of
> >Isham Epes and Francis Poythress were also named in John Worsham's will
as
> >Janelle Swearingen mentioned. Janelle also stated that the father of
Isham
> >Epes was identified as William Epes. His name came from Elizabeth J.
> >Harrell's book, The Osbornes pg 139. Elizabeth Harrell stated William
Epes d
> >1725 & was son of Francis Epes & Ann Isham. Harrell did not give a
source
> >where she found this information. Because John did not name this
daughter in
> >his will and named her son Isham Epes, it has been assumed that she died
> >before his will was written 6 June 1729 and proved 6 Oct 1729. Do any
of you
> >know if William Epes left a will?
> > I have seen "Francis Epes His Ancestors and Descendants" by Eva Turner
> Clark
> >and copies a few pages but my pages do not include anything about
Francis
> Epes
> >& Ann Isham's son William. I understand there is a new book out on the
Epes
> >family. Have any of you seen the new book and does it have any
information
> >about William Epes s/o Francis Epes & Ann Isham as having married a
daughter
> >of John & Phoebe?
> > Has anyone seen another source that stated that the daughter of John &
> >Phoebe md William Epes? If so, would you please let us know of the
source.
> > The other daughter that Kim Rowlett named was Hannah Worsham b 1700
who
> >married Francis Poythress. There was a suit in 1738 in the Prince
George
> >County Records between Joshua Poythress and Francis Poythress vs Hannah
> >Poythress, executrix of Francis Poythress, Deceased. (Prince George VA
> Minute
> >Book 1737-1740, p 94) Because John only named a grandson Francis
> Poythress in
> >his will, I it has been assumed that this daughter died before 1729.
> > Kim, you also wrote that John Worsham's wife was Phebe or Judith
(Farmer?)
> >Would you tell all of us where you saw information that his wife could
be
> >Judith (Farmer?) We know that her name was Phebe when she & her husband
John
> >were witnesses to the will of Gilbert Elam in 1696 (Henrico Court
Minutes
> >1694-1701 p 107) She was unable to come into court to give her oath
when the
> >will was proved for she was "great with child."
> > There was an Elizabeth Poythress born 11 Feb 1729 & Bapt 8 Apr 1730 in
> >Bristol Parish, Prince George, VA. This Elizabeth was d/o Francis &
Hannah
> >Poythress. (Churchill Gibson Chamberlayne, Births From the Bristol
Parish
> >Register of Henrico, Prince George & Dinwiddie Counties, VA 1720-1798, p
78.
> >Perhaps someone found this source and assumed Hannah was the daughter of
John
> >& Phebe.
> > Jodie Gee wrote that one daughter was named Harriet Worsham instead of
> >Hannah and that she md Francis Poythress. Jodie Gee would you please
cite
> >your source where this information was found? It would really help all
of
> us.
> > Dorothy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Linda Sparks Starr
> starr81@ix.netcom.com
> http://pw1.netcom.com/~starr81/index.htm
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/09/1997 1:51:11
Re: Collateral linesAlbert R. TimsLea,

Sorry, I don't have anything to help with your Richard Cocke quandary.

I am curious about the Don Luis information. I infer that this "theory"
has been examined and evidence revealed that casts doubt on Bridenbaugh's
conclusions. Having not yet read Bridenbaugh's more recent book promising
a more detailed account, I simply don't know if provides anything of value
or not. Bridenbaugh does acknowledge that he can't "prove" that Don Luis
was Opechancanough, but he asserts (perhaps wrongly) that "it is a
reasonable, workable, and plausible hypothesis into which the known facts
fit nicely, an interpretation that explains nearly all of the matters
concerning Opechancanough and his brother, the Powhatan, that have hitherto
been obscure, preventing our understanding of many events of the period.
He adds that the argument has been developed in a much longer, more
detailed, and fully documented study of the subject in "Early Americans",
Oxford University Press, 1981". I don't have the ISBN :-).

I fully admit to having very limited understanding of this subject, but
would certainly like to learn more about Helen Roundtree's work.

As for George Thorpe, all I know of him is that he owned property in
Gloucestershire, his wife's name was Margaret, he died circa 1630, and his
name is found on some early Virginia Company documents in association with
John Rolfe and John Powntesse. Yes, I've speculated that John Powntesse
might have been a misreading or Poythress variant, but there is no evidence
to support this speculation. I will continue to search for the items on
Thorpe.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
> From: Lea L. Dowd
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Collateral lines
> Date: Monday, December 08, 1997 2:59 AM
>
> I am going to impose on this wonderful group of researchers even thought
> this is off subject. I am very curious and I know that this list has the
> best researchers around. I could use some help.
>
> In 1663, Richard Cocke wrote his will. It proved in 1665 in Henrico Co.,
> VA. In his will, he clearly names two (2) sons Richard Cocke. One by
each
> wife. I am going crazy with Richard Cockes. The land given to each is
very
> close to each other and I am having difficulty separating them. Has
anyone
> ever straightened out these Richard's?. I would really appreciate the
> help.
>
> On a separate note, I have not heard back from the Chief of the Powhatan
> tribe. The person that usually fields their questions referred mine to
the
> Chief. Hopefully, they can give us some answers.
>
> Secondly, Helen Roundtree does quite a bit in her "Pocahontas's People on
> Openchancanough not being Dom Luis. The one that really intrigues me is
> the Indian secretary of George Thorpe. He (whoever he is) went to
England
> with Pocahontas. George Thorpe took him in, educated him and used him as
a
> secretary when he came back to VA. Does anyone know his name?
>
> Many thanks,
> Lea
>
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Search Engine for Poythress-L MessagesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

More great news. Last week I announced our threaded message archive at:
http://lists.rootsweb.com/~archiver/lists/POYTHRESS-L/

I'm pleased to announce this evening that we now have a full text search
engine archive for all our messages for the list. This resource will allow
you to enter a name, date, place or other word combination of interest to
search and retrieve messages posted to the list. The archive currently has
1,787 messages for the Poythress list.

Please give it a try at:
http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl

Both archive resources are of great value. Please add them to your
bookmarks.

Best,
Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/09/1997 7:33:35
Search Engine -- UpdateAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I neglected to mention that the new search archive includes all of our
messages from our early days on the Maiser system at Indiana University.
These early archives were imported into the RootsWeb database. Neato.

When you start looking at the archives you'll quickly see how helpful good
subject line identifiers can be for us. So, a gentle request that all of
us try to make our subject lines relatively informative and accurate
reflections of what we're addressing. I don't think we need to be overly
formal about this -- just attentive.

Best,

Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/09/1997 7:43:37
Re: George ThorpeLea L. DowdAl,

As always you are a scholar and a gentleman. I do appreciate all of this
list's wonderful help and knowledge.

Warm regards and Happy Holidays,
Lea

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/10/1997 2:34:35
BASKERVILL(E)jonasThis post is for Kalisha regarding her request for information on
BASKERVILL. I lost your email address... Found some information.

Jerrie Jones

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12/10/1997 2:54:47
Re: Search Engine -- UpdateAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

I will attempt to answer all of Maynard's questions (see below) about the
Poythress message archives as best I can. First, let me emphasize that
there are two message archive systems right now. The threaded message
archive is much prettier and is organized by month. At the moment the only
messages contained are for December -- more than 60!. If it remains
popular with RootsWeb lists then I suspect we'll have the option of pulling
in all the message history. It can be found at:
http://lists.rootsweb.com/~archiver/lists/POYTHRESS-L/

The second archive (complete all the way back to our very first post) is
based on a full-text search engine. It will allow us to find all messages
containing "Thomas Poythress" or "Mecklenburg" or all the messages from a
particular person, etc. It can be found at:
http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl

I'd encourage checking both archives to see the differences for yourself.

Now for the specific answers to Maynard's questions:

> Wow and Wow again. Does that mean I can now junk my funky e-mail log
with
> its clumsy code because its ALL in archives?

Yes, once you've played around with the archives and have confirmed that
they'll do what you want. It is possible for you to request the archive
files for download to your system if you'd like to have a personal
collection.
>
> And presumably it will be separated "by year" as a year is accumulated
and by
> month when a month is accumulated (the "month" then "going away" when a
> calendar year is completed?

This is how the threaded archive is structured. The search engine archive
doesn't work this way. With the search engine you'll only get the messages
that match your search criteria. However, since it does a full text search
-- including headers -- you'll enjoy tremendous opportunity to do
sophisticated searching.

>
> And at anytime I can check either an uncompleted month MTD and an
uncompleted
> year "by month"?

Yes, both archives are updated several times a day.

>
> And I'll assume we still have to be careful if its a message, for
example,
> that we would send from one individual to another with no copies because
it
> has no mechanism to get to the archive?

Yes -- Only messages addressed to the Poythress-L list will appear.
Personal responses won't get archived.
>
> And I think I have noticed that when a msg. is sent to an individual with
only
> "cc" for the list, that it ALSO appears in the archives?

Yes -- cc: messages go to the list and will appear in the archive.

Again, for future reference purposes, I'd encourage all of us to try to
take advantage of the subject line to create meaningful pointers to the
message contents.

Best,

Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: George Thorpe of GloucestershireAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Pat Crewe: Thank you for adding such wonderful new information to the
George Thorpe story. Who knows, he may prove to hold some important clues
Lea Dowd's original query couldn't have anticipated. I have no doubt that
the George Thorpe you identified is the fellow we see in Virginia.

My instincts tell me that we should continue to explore Thorpe's history --
especially in light of Pat's statement that "I think it very likely that
Powntesse is another variant on Poythress especially as in the 1600s it
comes up most often as Poydresse."

IF John Powntesse proves to be a Poythress then all sorts of things start
to fall into place for me -- especially if this John Powntesse could be
shown to the John (Poythress) we see in the 1609 baptism record as the
father of Francis.

I can add an additional footnote on George Thorpe, that may or may not
prove to be true, based on the WMQ article I cited in my previous post on
this topic. It is reported that " Mr. Thorpe, in order to befriend King
Powhatan as much as possible, caused a good substantial house to be built
for him, of which the King was very proud." This could be a fable I
suppose, but it does suggest a close association between Thorpe and
Powhatan -- making the Pocahontas connection Lea mentions all the more
intriguing.

Best,

Al Tims

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Ploddy House, John Thorpe & John Poydresse (Poythress) -- ConnectedAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Making use of our new search engine, I found the following information Pat
Crewe sent to us over the summer. At the time, the Thorpe surname
connection didn't mean anything to me. Now, of course, it does! I'd say
the plot just thickened :-).

Here we have a link between John Thorpe and the John Poythress (Poydresse)
of Ploddy House in Newent. Moreover, we also know that George Thorpe has
clear and known connections to the Berkeley Hundred, John Rolfe and the
person known as John Powntesse in Virginia. I'm not going to jump to
conclusions, but this is a trail worth following -- if I ever saw one.

Thanks to Pat!

Best,
Al Tims

Ploddy House and Emlets, NEWENT

11 Apr. 1649

Manor of Newent: Court Baron of Thos. Morgan, Esq., Wm. Morgan, Esq., John
Thorpe, gent. and others; before Wm. Sheppard, Esq., steward.

Surrender of 2 copyhold tenements called Ploddy House and Emlets, late in
the
tenure of John Poydresse, decd., with all lands appertaining thereto which
the said John held for life; and Admission of Joan Singleton, widow, to
whom
the property is granted with her son Francis and her dr. Joan for the life
of
the longest survivor; at an annual rent of 17/6 and "two fatt capons" at
Pentecost, a heriot when due, and all other customary services. Fine of
L250
paid to the Lords of the Manor for admission.

Endorsed: "Ambrose Cotterell of Newent in the County of Gloucr.,glover,
maketh oath that the within-named Jone Singleton Francis her sonne and Jone
her daughter were liveing and in health within a fortnight last past & that
the said Jone Singleton the Mother was then in possession of the messuage &
lands therein granted her"

_____________________________________

Note: This copy of Court Roll was purchased from Myers (booksellers), 1948

End of document

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George Thorpe, Berkeley Company , Woodlief-Poythress connections Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

Just to bring things into even closer focus -- recall my post not too long
ago in which I reported:

Capt. John Woodlief was the founder of the Berkeley Company. This venture
is "apparently" described in "George Thorpe and the Berkeley Company: A
Gloucestershire Enterprise in Virginia by Eric Gethyn-Jones (Alan Sutton,
1982)."

We know of the Poythress - Woodlief marriage after the death of Francis
Poythress. We know of the Thorpe and the Woodlief connection to the
Berkeley enterprise. We see some emerging evidenec of a Thorpe and
Poythress association in Newent.

And (below) we see an early document survey clearly providing evidence of
the association of Thorpe, Rolfe and Powntesse. Again, I don't have any
evidence to support the Powntesse identity, but if known associations is
any sort of indicator -- we might have something here.
----
Best,
Al Tims

Reference: Eighth Report of the Royal Commission on Historical
Manuscripts. Appendix Part II. 30a-50a.
Examined: 14-15 August, 1957 and 25 Oct - 18 Nov. 1957
SURVEY REPORT No. 1106 page 20

290 21 January 1620. James City. Sir George Yeardley to the Council of
the Virginia Company; the colony's petition to the King about the tobacco.
(Title from endorsement). It is in fact a copy of the petition, with a
covering note preceding it from Sir George Yeardley, George Thorpe, Thomas
Nuce, Nathaniel Powle, Samuel Maycock, John Porye, John Rolph and John
Powntesse, mentioning that "the life of the Plantacion dependeth upon the
wellfare of it [the petition]". It was prompted by the recent
proclamation against the importation of tobacco into England, and hence it
was entitled 'The humble Peticion of the distressed Collonye in Virginea".
It refers to ''the Sinister practize of principall persons of our Companie
at home" who were out for their own profit only. If the King disregarded
the petition he would lose not only many loyal emigrant subjects but also
"a Territorie as large and as opulent to bee made, as anie of those
Kingdomes you now possesses". 4pp., with pp.2 and 3 blank. Address and
endorsement on p.4. (Eighth Report, 37a-37b)

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Correction -- Woodlief-Poythress connections should be Wynne-PoythressAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

My apology -- this was a mistake. I should have said the Poythress - Wynne
marriage. We have John Woodlief marrying Mary Wynne -- dau of Mary
(Poythress) and Col. Robert Wynne.

We know of the Thorpe and the Woodlief connection to the Berkeley
enterprise. This statement needs further clarification since Woodlief's
commission as Captain and Governor was revoked 28/8/1620 because of lack of
quick profits and he was relieved by George Thorpe.

Best,
Al Tims

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George ThorpeAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

As a follow-up to Lea Dowd's query about George Thorpe I have the following
from "William & Mary Quarterly," Vol. 9, No. 4 (April, 1901), pp. 203-214.

In part, this article states:

George Thorpe, Esq., was the son of Nicholas Thorpe, of Wanswell Court,
Gloucestershire, by his first wife, Mary Wiles, alias Mason, niece of Sir.
John Mason, a councilor of State, and was grandson of Thomas Thorpe and
Margaret Throckmorton. In 1618, he formed a partnership with his kinsmen
and connections, Sir. William Throckmorton, John Smith, of Nibley, and
Richard Berkeley, to found "a new Berkeley" in Virginia. He was a manager
of the college lands and a great friend of the Indians. He was twice
married, first to Margaret, daughter of Sir. Thomas Porter, on July 11,
1600, who died; and secondly to Margaret, daughter of David Harris, who
died in 1629. Their son, William Thorpe, was also twice married, his first
wife (m. 1636) being Ursula, dau of John Smith of Nibly.

... it goes on to describe various descendants, etc.

The item of greatest significance to Lea's original query is a reference to
Capt. George Thorpe having had an Indian lad whom he had trained to
learning. The article maintains that he (the Indian lad) copied the draft
of the patent of Berkeley Hundred sent to the Governor Sir. George Yardley.
Moreover, it states that among the burials reported in the parish register
of St. Martins-in-the-Field, County Middlesex, England, is Georgius Thorp,
homo Virginiae, Sept. 27, 1619.

The parish register is listed as showing Georgius Thorp, homo Virginiae, as
being baptized on September 10, 1619 -- just 17 days before his death.

All of this seems to fit with Lea's account, except I've yet to find an
association with Pocahontas, or anything that might provide the actual name
of Georgius.

We might well expect to find more details in studies and documents
associated with the Berkeley Hundred.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Al Tims

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George Thorpe of GloucestershireHi all,
I was intrigued by the mention of George Thorpe of Gloucestershire so
have been delving in my books.
In "Men and Armour", the military survey of Gloucestershire taken in
1608 there is a George Thorpe, Esquire who has to furnish a musket and a
calyver - no age is given for him. He is then living in Halmore, a
village 2 miles NE of Berkeley. In Berkeley itself there is a John
Thorpe, gent, who is around 20 years of age and of middle height.
I then looked in Biglands under Berkeley and found a few mentions of the
family. There is a tomb in Berkeley churchyard to a George Thorpe, Esq.
but I don't think it can be the same one, most probably his son or
grandson, as he died 12th July 1672 age 32. It does show that there is a
coat of arms on the tomb.
Also in one of the parishes of Berkeley there is "Wanswell, a reputed
manor, held with a considerable Estate" once owned by the Thorpe family.
There is also a tower in Berkeley Castle called "Thorpe's Tower".
I think it very likely that Powntesse is another variant on Poythress
especially as in the 1600s it comes up most often as Poydresse.
Not a lot of help I know, but I just thought you might be interested.
Best wishes, Pat

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Re: Collateral linesLea L. DowdAl,

Many thanks....

From The Powhattan Tribes, Frank W. Porter, General Editor
Sometime around the year 1560, Spain decided to attempt to establish a
colony in the area (meaning VA). A part of this design, a Spanish
expedition kidnapped a young Indian, who they subsequently discovered was
the offspring of a tribal chief of the Tidewater area. He was taken to
Havana, Cuba- the center of Spanish colonial operations-where he was
instructed in Spanish manners and Christianity. He was baptized and given
the name of his godfather, Don Luis de Velasco, who was the viceroy
(supreme ruler) of New Spain. The newly renamed Don Luis offered to escort
a group of missionaries to his home country, which he called Ajacan, but a
first attempt to reach Chesapeake Bay failed in 1566. The Indian Don Luis
was subsequently taken to Spain, where he was introduced to King Philip II.

In 1570, Do Luis finally returned to present-day Virginia, accompanied by
Father Juan Bautista de Segura and a few other missionaries who were
members of the Society of Jesus, also called the Jesuits. Don Luis found
his people starving after a prolonged drought and immediately deserted the
missionaries, who nonetheless proceeded to found a mission on the nearby
York River. They attempted to convert the Indians there to Christianity and
in the process introduced to them previously unknown items such as metal
utensils and spun cloth. The Indians were initially friendly toward and
interested in their visitors but soon withdrew from the vicinity of the
mission. Although he rejoined his tribe, Don Luis refused to accept the
chieftanship he had inherited, at least for the time being. Early in 1571,
he returned to visit the mission with a war party and killed the
Jesuits-apparently a supreme display of his utter rejection of Spanish
culture. Only one Spaniard, an altar boy named Alonso, escaped. He found
refuge among a group of Indians, perhaps in the village of Kecoughtan, at
the mouth of the James River.

From Pocahontas's People, Helen Roundtree
1)Same basic story except the youth was first taken to Mexico, baptized and
educated by Dominicans. He was then taken to Spain where the Jesuits who
met him described him as the son of a petty chief. He remained in Spain for
2 years. Lastly he went to Havana where he eventually persuaded the
Jesuits to form a mission in his homeland called Ajacan.

2) Dom Luis was welcomed back at their landing site by those later known to
the English as Paspahehs (or perhaps Chickahominies).

3) Some modern historians, notably Carl Bridenbaugh, have speculated that
Openchancanough and Don Luis were the same person. Indeed, Bridenbaugh has
written a composite life history of them as though they were one, saying
only parenthetically that the idea cannot be proven. I think that there is
little likelihood of their being the same, as do some of the authorities on
the Spanish Jesuit mission. My reasons are both historical and cultural.
Don Luis and Openchancanough were approximate contemporaries, since Don
Luis and Powhatan were contemporaries. But Don Luis had only a younger
brother, as far as the Spanish accounts show, while Openchancanough had two
older full brothers who became mamanatowick ahead of him. That means there
were different sets of people in their immediate families. Additionally,
Don Luis came from a territory somewhere around the mouth of the
Chickahominy River in 1559-1561. Powhatan, and by extension,
Openchancanough came from a territory that included tribes up near the fall
line of the James and York Rivers........

ibid. P. 84
Dec 1641 Pocahontas's son, Thomas Rolfe asked permission of the governor
(required of all English subjects in those days) to go into Indian country
to see "Openchancanough [sic] to whom he is allied and Cleopatra his
mother's sister". Thanks to the burning of all of the colonial Council's
records of this period in the Civil War, we know no more than that;
"Cleopatra" may or may not have been the Matachanna who was the wife to the
high priest Uttamatomakkin.

For now,
Lea

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Ploddy HouseGood for you Al - I must admit I had not remembered the name of John
Thorpe in the land document for Ploddy House and Emlets. It does look
hopeful that the John Poydresse, possible father of your Francis and
known father of my ancestor Christopher and who was dead by 11th April
1649, had connections with the Thorpe family.
I have not so far found John Poydresse's burial which should have been
1648 or 1649 and I am wondering whether there is any possibility that he
died in America. Does anyone have any information? There would still
have been a land deed for the transfer of ownership of Ploddy House
where ever John Poydresse died.
Whilst delving in my books again, I found the following in "The Vale of
Berkeley" by Lewis Wilshire. It is quite nicely written so I hope you
will forgive me for quoting some of it.
"Keeping to the right of Tintock Wood, I crossed a bridge over a stream
and shortly afterwards was "electrocuted" by an electric fence. This
delightful evidence of progressive farming was treated to a flow of
invective which was completely wasted on it, before I came into the
little lane which leads to the front of Wanswell Court. This used to be
reached by two drawbridges, which have now been replaced by stone
bridges over the moat. It is an extremely old house, rich in interest
for the antiquary. In 1256 Philip de Leicester obtained a licence from
the abbot of Bristol to erect a chapel within the manor. In the
fifteenth century the estate came, by way of marriage, into the hands of
a Bristol burgess, John Thorpe, and this family continued to occupy it
for ten generations and nearly three centuries. It was either John or
his son who built the oldest portion of the existing house.
One of these Thorpes was apparently governor of Berkeley castle or held
some other official position there, for Thorpe's Tower still exists. It
was not until the eighteenth century that the Thorpes relinquished
Wanswell."

Regards, Pat

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William Byrd of WestoverVKRatliffIn case anyone wants to buy that book Linda Starr gave us a fine review of on
1 Oct there are 3 copies for sale on "http://www.interloc.com".

Interloc is a site where new/used/rare booksellers of the world unite and
publish descriptions of their wares along with prices. Its a great address to
bookmark. They advertise a zillion titles or something.

I tried several times to get the search function to work and finally broke the
code:
Title: William Byrd of Westover
Author: Wright & Tinling
About: Colonial Virginia
Keywords: secret diary..........above combination will bring it right up.

The first one listed looks like the deal if you are interested....40 bucks for
a G+ condition copy.

Maynard

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John Puntesse, esquire, Vice Admiral of VirginiaAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Below is a new one for me. I'm confident that this is the same person we
see as John Powntesse in other records. The fact that he is described as
the Vice Admiral of Virginia and as having all his records returned to
England gives me reason to have some hope that we might eventually discover
more about this fellow.

By no means am I ready to declare him a Poythress, but I do believe he is
worth our attention -- especially since we have records showing a Ploddy
House connection to the Thorpe family in England and we see
Powntesse(Puntesse) associated with George Thorpe and John Rolfe in
Virginia.

Best,
Al Tims
---------------
Privy Council Register 1623-1625
Reference: M.S. Giuseppi, A Guide to the Manuscripts preserved in the
Public Record Office, Vol. II (London 1924) pp. 128-129.

Privy Council Meeting. Whitshall, 27 September 1624.

A letter to the Governor, Sir. Francis Wyatt, and the Council of Virginia,
dated 28 September 1624. John Puntesse, esquire, Vice Admiral of Virginia,
had died, having made Sir. Thomas Merry his executor. Sir Thomas is Clerk
of the Green Cloth and cannot therefore find time to go to Virginia. The
Lords of the Council ask the Governor and Council of Virginia to make an
account of all goods, credits and debts of John Puntesse, to collect and
put into sealed boxes all his goods and papers and send them to England.

Also have the same letter (of the Privy Council) in another collection
saying that his executor was Sir. Thomas Mony.

(Note: It is very interesting to see the difference in the quality of the
abstract of this particular letter. The first one cited above provides
significantly more detail than the second)

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Virginia BibliographyVKRatliffHey Craig......

A friend gave me as a gift a copy of "A Bibliography of Abstracts and
Compilations
of Virginia City and County Records"....compiled by Robert Vernon and
published/printed by your friend down at Iberian Publishing Co. in Athens.

Its 108 pgs., softbound, 8 1/4 x 10 3/4......and appears to be a super check
list for our eventual ambition of corralling all Virginia documents pertinent
to our folks.

I'll give it my own tout to save you even the appearance of exploitation....if
you have it in stock, would you please "review" it (critically if it deserves
it) for the group and put a price on it if it gets your recommendation too.

Thanks,

Maynard

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William Byrd's History of the dividing line between Virginia & North CarolinaAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

The Byrd history is important for various reasons detailed in a host of
messages earlier this year. Below is a dissertation abstract proporting to
documenting the errors/omissions in earlier editions of the work.

It would appear to be a valuable treatment.

Best,
Al Tims
--------------------------------------------------------
ACCESSION NO.: AAG9301774
TITLE: WILLIAM BYRD'S "HISTORY OF THE DIVIDING LINE BETWIXT
VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA RUN IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD
1728": A GENETIC TEXT (BYRD WILLIAM)
AUTHOR: FIELDS, DARIN EVAN
DEGREE: PH.D.
YEAR: 1992
INSTITUTION: UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE; 0060
ADVISER: Professor In Charge: J. A. LEO LEMAY
SOURCE: DAI, VOL. 53-09A, Page 3212, 00552 Pages
DESCRIPTORS: LITERATURE, AMERICAN; LITERATURE, ENGLISH; HISTORY,
UNITED STATES
ABSTRACT: William Byrd's History of the Dividing Line has long
been considered a masterpiece of southern colonial
prose. Though written in the late 1730s, Byrd's History
was not published until 1841. Since 1841, the History
has appeared in six editions; however, it has never
received careful editorial attention. The Westover folio
manuscript, the basis for the six published editions of
Byrd's History, has never been accurately transcribed.
Edmund Ruffin's first published edition (1841)
modernized the text and expurgated several passages
deemed inappropriate. Three editions, those of Thomas
Hicks Wynne (1866), John Spencer Bassett (1901), and
William K. Boyd (1928) claimed to exactly reproduce the
text without modernization. A comparison of even the
first manuscript page with these texts reveals an
average of 20 errors each. Louis B. Wright's 1966
edition modernized and silently altered paragraph
structure, and contained numerous errors in
transcription.
No previous editor has documented the 290 changes Byrd
made to the Westover folio. My edition of Byrd's History
provides an accurate genetic text of the Westover folio
which identifies all revisions, cancellations, and
additions in Byrd's and the copyist's hand, making it
possible to analyze Byrd's changes to the manuscript
after its initial copying.
An octavo manuscript version of Byrd's History, housed
at the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia
since 1815, has never been thoroughly examined, nor has
its relationship to the Westover folio at the Virginia
Historical Society been determined and documented. The
textual notes to the edition document substantive
variants between the Westover folio manuscript and the
American Philosophical Society octavo manuscript and
record all erasures, revisions, and additions to the
Westover folio in both Byrd's and the copyist's hand.
Byrd's work has never been fully annotated. Only William
K. Boyd has provided any substantial annotation of
Byrd's text. While Boyd provided a number of
biographical and historical annotations, no editor has
annotated the numerous classical, biblical, and literary
allusions in the text. Byrd's sources in the History
were numerous, varied, and sophisticated. My edition
comprehensively annotates Byrd's History, providing
useful historical, biographical, and literary insight
into the work. The text is more accurate and the
annotations more useful than any previous edition.

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Development of Southside Virginia: 1744 - 1776Albert R. TimsPoythress List,

The following recent dissertation done at William and Mary may be of
interest to many of you. Certainly it is the case that the Poythress and
closely allied families were participants in the history presented in this
work. I have no way of knowing if this work will provide any of the
unanswered questions, but it may point us to new sources and deepen our
understanding of the social and economic history of the region.

Best,

Al Tims
----------------------

ACCESSION NO.: AAG9224075
TITLE: TOWN DEVELOPMENT IN THE COLONIAL BACKCOUNTRY - VIRGINIA
AND NORTH CAROLINA
AUTHOR: HENDRICKS, CHRISTOPHER EDWIN
DEGREE: PH.D.
YEAR: 1991
INSTITUTION: THE COLLEGE OF WILLIAM AND MARY; 0261
ADVISER: Major Adviser: JAMES P. WHITTENBURG
SOURCE: DAI, VOL. 53-04A, Page 1254, 00363 Pages
DESCRIPTORS: HISTORY, UNITED STATES; GEOGRAPHY
ABSTRACT: The backcountry of colonial Virginia and North Carolina
saw a process of urbanization during the third quarter
of the eighteenth century uniquely shaped by a large-
scale migration from colonies to the north, aided by the
westward extension of local government. This rapid
development did not lead to the creation of a
hierarchical economic system of central places, but
rather linear networks shaped by the geography of the
region. Ironically, this phenomenon occurred in an area
of two American colonies usually considered to be devoid
of towns.
This dissertation is a study of twenty-eight towns
established from 1744 to 1776 in the Piedmont Southside
and Great Valley of Virginia and in Piedmont North
Carolina. The towns are categorized by their primary
function (administrative, migrant, or trade), and then
analyzed individually, taking into account the
circumstances of their establishment, their intended
purpose, their design, and actual development.
The goal of this work is not only to provide a regional
town study, but also to identify commonalities in town
development, including methods of establishment,
economic activities on local and regional levels, the
roles of public institutions, and what factors helped
determine success or failure. The interaction between
towns is also explored to determine trade and
communication links, any network systems, and areas of
urban influence. The study is an attempt to identify and
describe the growth of a significant colonial urban
movement.
----------

movement.

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Dissertations on DiskVKRatliffYour comments on the W & M dissertation struck a resonant chord: surely there
is a move afoot in the academic world to require that dissertations be
accompanied by a disk in order to ultimately make the text and not just the
title available on-line?

Maynard

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Genealogy containing POYTHRESSesDARTBOBMerry, Merry All -

I've put a page up with most of my paternal line at:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/5935/index.htm

This is taken from my "experimental" data base, which means nothing is
complete or necessarily right. There is some data that is probably mythical,
but it is fun and interesting. There are lineages back to the early centuries
of the first millenium.

If America on Line wasn't so screwed up, I'd put whole genealogies on it.
Someday I'm going to tell Steve Case and crew to go to hell and spend my money
where one can have a page larger than 2 MB.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannuka and A Happy New Year to all the ancestors,
descendants and otherwise out there.

Harris R. (Bob) Manning, Charleston, SC

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Genealogy containing POYTHRESSesAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Bob -- Thanks for the pointer to Poythress entries in your database.

Best,

Al Tims
----------
> From: DARTBOB
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com; POYTHRESS-D@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Genealogy containing POYTHRESSes
> Date: Monday, December 15, 1997 1:29 PM
>
> Merry, Merry All -
>
> I've put a page up with most of my paternal line at:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/5935/index.htm
>
> This is taken from my "experimental" data base, which means nothing is
> complete or necessarily right. There is some data that is probably
mythical,
> but it is fun and interesting. There are lineages back to the early
centuries
> of the first millenium.
>
> If America on Line wasn't so screwed up, I'd put whole genealogies on
it.
> Someday I'm going to tell Steve Case and crew to go to hell and spend my
money
> where one can have a page larger than 2 MB.
>
> Merry Christmas, Happy Hannuka and A Happy New Year to all the ancestors,
> descendants and otherwise out there.
>
> Harris R. (Bob) Manning, Charleston, SC
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Re: Dissertations on DiskAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Maynard -- An interesting idea for dissertations to be available on disk or
CD Rom. Of course, we see quite a few dissertations with copyright notices.
This is because they often form the basis of books, monographs and journal
articles. However, it is possible to get dissertations on microfilm and
full text copies from Dissertation Abstracts International in Ann Arbor
Michigan -- at a reasonable cost. In addition, many dissertations can be
obtained via interlibrary loan.

I believe the dissertation on William Byrd's writings is worth examination.
I may try to obtain a copy for us.

Best,
Al Tims

----------
> From: VKRatliff
> To: atims@minn.net
> Cc: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Dissertations on Disk
> Date: Monday, December 15, 1997 8:57 AM
>
> Your comments on the W & M dissertation struck a resonant chord: surely
there
> is a move afoot in the academic world to require that dissertations be
> accompanied by a disk in order to ultimately make the text and not just
the
> title available on-line?
>
> Maynard
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
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Interesting new websiteBPoythressAl,

In case anyone is interested in learning about the roots of the early settlers
referred to as "Georgia Salzburgers", a story that actually began in France
during the 12th Century and ultimately lead the Archbishop Count Leopold's
"Edict of Expulsion" under a threat of possible death in 1731 of all persons
who refused to accept the Roman Catholic faith which turned out to be over
20,000 people.

A small group of a few hundred of those poor souls, sponsored by the King of
England, sailing for the new land and a new home in the Georgia Colony in
1734. They finally settled about 25 miles north of Savannah and later re-
settled on a location about 18 miles up the Savannah River, and called it
"Ebenezer". These hardy souls - later referred to as the "Georgia
Salzburgers" are covered by the period of 1734 to about 1754.

You might take a look at the Web-site URL: --

http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/salzb/index.html

for a complete history - plus a complete listing of the "names of the original
settlers." Some might like to check for possible familiar "sur-name"
connection/s.

In case of a possible name connection, "The Georgia Salzburger Society" has a
fairly complete record of "Georgia Salzburger Genealogical and Allied Family
Research" history.

Maynard: -- The old "Jerusalem Lutheran Church" generally referred to as "Old
Ebenezer" Church, (a fully functional congregation even today - and I'm told
one of the wealthest congregations in "land holding" in the US) is located at
a point on the Savannah River that is only a "bend or two from Screven
County", so don't you imagine those early Screven county boys very likely
found some reason to check out the fishing and hunting around Ebenezer Creek
or the Savannah River at that point a time or two?

Hope everyone is enjoying a "Wonderful Holiday Season.....

Take care,

Bud
(BPoythress@aol.com)

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb please visit http://www.rootsweb.com/		12/20/1997 10:41:19
Re: Interesting new websiteAlbert R. TimsPoythress List

Bud,

Boy howdy, seems like a while since we last heard from you. Then again, it
feels like only yesterday that you were starting to dip your little toe
into cyberspace. And now you're passing along website URL's to us.
Fantastic!

I did check out the web site. You are right -- it is a great site well
worth visiting. In the process I noted a link to the Historical Text
Archive maintained at Mississippi State. The URL is
http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/

The Historical Text Archive is rated at a Top 5% website and is recommended
by the History Channel. I'd certainly add this to the list of places to
visit on the internet.

The list has been quiet for the past week or so, but I'll chalk that up to
the holiday season. We compiled nearly 1,800 messages during 1997. Not
bad given that we started with only a handful of subscribers in mid
February.

All the wonderful new friendships and discoveries we've shared has enriched
my life in so many ways. I suppose in the years ahead we too will be
considered pioneers of sorts.

I'd like to join with Bud in wishing everyone a wonderful Holiday Season
:-).

Best,

Al Tims

----------
> From: BPoythress
> To: POYTHRESS-L@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Interesting new website
> Date: Saturday, December 20, 1997 4:41 PM
>
> Al,
>
> In case anyone is interested in learning about the roots of the early
settlers
> referred to as "Georgia Salzburgers", a story that actually began in
France
> during the 12th Century and ultimately lead the Archbishop Count
Leopold's
> "Edict of Expulsion" under a threat of possible death in 1731 of all
persons
> who refused to accept the Roman Catholic faith which turned out to be
over
> 20,000 people.
>
> A small group of a few hundred of those poor souls, sponsored by the King
of
> England, sailing for the new land and a new home in the Georgia Colony in
> 1734. They finally settled about 25 miles north of Savannah and later
re-
> settled on a location about 18 miles up the Savannah River, and called it
> "Ebenezer". These hardy souls - later referred to as the "Georgia
> Salzburgers" are covered by the period of 1734 to about 1754.
>
> You might take a look at the Web-site URL: --
>
>
http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/History/salzb/index.html
>
> for a complete history - plus a complete listing of the "names of the
original
> settlers." Some might like to check for possible familiar "sur-name"
> connection/s.
>
> In case of a possible name connection, "The Georgia Salzburger Society"
has a
> fairly complete record of "Georgia Salzburger Genealogical and Allied
Family
> Research" history.
>
> Maynard: -- The old "Jerusalem Lutheran Church" generally referred to as
"Old
> Ebenezer" Church, (a fully functional congregation even today - and I'm
told
> one of the wealthest congregations in "land holding" in the US) is
located at
> a point on the Savannah River that is only a "bend or two from Screven
> County", so don't you imagine those early Screven county boys very likely
> found some reason to check out the fishing and hunting around Ebenezer
Creek
> or the Savannah River at that point a time or two?
>
> Hope everyone is enjoying a "Wonderful Holiday Season.....
>
> Take care,
>
> Bud
> (BPoythress@aol.com)
>
>
> ==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
> The Poythress Genealogy List is hosted by the nonprofit RootsWeb Data
Cooperative. If you'd like to become a supporter of Rootsweb please visit
http://www.rootsweb.com/
>
>

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/20/1997 10:42:41
Webpage UpDARTBOBMerry, Merry to All !

I've finally got my personal web page up to snuff.

http://members.aol.com/DARTBOB/index.html

It has links to:

My Genealogy
Genealogy Links
Military
Veterans
Darts
and More

This page replaces any url I may have sent you in the past. Most of you should
know why you're getting this e-mail. If you don't know then you probably got
it due to atmospheric ions being disturbed by the passage of red nosed little
old gents, elves, sleighs or other phenomena.

Bob Manning

==== POYTHRESS Mailing List ====
The Poythress Web Page is at http://www1.minn.net/~atims/		12/21/1997 5:38:30
Willow BendCraig R. ScottJust a few commerical announcements.

First, Willow Bend just finished a 20% discount moving sale and today it
dawned on me that I did not tell my cousins. So, in order to make up for it
and my rudeness, I am extending the discount to any Poythress researcher
until Friday 26, 1997. You must identify yourself as a Poythress cousin in
your email in order to qualify for this discount on any book, map or CD
currently in stock here at Willow Bend. I am moving to a new place and don't
want to have to pack up all the books.

Second, Maynard has asked me to review the book _A Bibliography of Abstracts
and Compilations of Virginia City and County Records_ by Robert Vernon,
which he was given by a friend. It costs $14.95, and I guess it is worth
that much. Personally, I am not one to ever turn down a finding aid of any
kind that might have some connection to my research. We, as a group are
probably most familier with Prince George County (although some might say
Mecklinburg) so I looked at what it had to say on this county. It mentions
only eight books. They are in abreviated title form:

1810 census
1850 census
1787 tax list
1810, 1820, 1830, 1840
Miscellany 1711-1814
Records 1733-1792
Wills and Deeds 1713-1728
Records 1666-1719

Not a bad list.

I would have included:

Births from Bristol Parish
Early Virginia Families Along the James, vol. II
Autographs
Wills 1710-1713
Early Quaker Records of Southeast Virginia

The problem is that this book only describes books that are available from
the Library of Virginia, which probably means that the author sat down at
terminal and copied what had been cataloged. It is interesting to note that
many Iberian books (the publisher of the compilation) are not included in
the work. The problem is that not everything is in the Library of Virginia.
Plus, although I have never used it, I am confident that the card catalog of
the Library is available on-line. In my mind a better set of books for
($12.00) would be the Pre-1904 Guide to County Records in the Archives
Branch and the ($7.95) Guide to the Pre-1904 Municipal Records in the
Archives Branch. These provide lists of orginial and microfilm records
available in the Library of Virginia. Another choice would be the set of
books known as Genealogical Books in Print, now in four volumes.

Third, although not in stock, I am able to obtain the book "Georgia
Salzburgers" at $35.00 for any who are interested in their own copy.

I also have _Ebenezer Record Book, 1754 - 1781_ by Exley for $25.00 and it
is in stock.

Fourth, the promised work on a sample of henry numbers and that ilk is about
done but my FTP software is not working properly. Once I have it fixed I
will have a few web pages to visit. Sorry for the delay.

Craig

-----
Craig R. Scott, CGRS
willowbend@mediasoft.net

Willow Bend Books Internet Bookstore URL is http://www.mediasoft.net/ScottC
Come visit.		12/22/1997 7:15:50
Rare Maps & Charts Online From U of GeorgiaAlbert R. TimsPoythress List,

Found a fantastic online resource for those of you in love with early maps
and charts. It can be found at
http://www.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/colamer.html

It is particularly rich with early maps of Georgia and the Southeastern
region. I treasure to be sure. I've listed the map and chart descriptions
below.

Happy Holidays,

Al Tims
------------------------------------------------------------------------
List of Online Image Files

1.Florida et regiones vicinae [De Laet 1625] [258kb]
2.Virginiae item et Floridae Americae Provinciarum nova descriptio
[Mercator 1633] [311kb] 3.Virginiae partis australis, et Floridae partis
orientalis [Blaeu 1640] [326kb]
4.America septentrionalis [Hondius 1640] [363kb]
5.Carta particolare della costa di Florida e di Virginia [Dudley 1646]
[265kb]
6.Americae nova tabula [Blaeu 1665] [491kb]
7.Novissima et acuratissima totius Americae [Schagen 1671] [368kb]
8.A new description of Carolina [Speed 1676] [281kb]
9.Pascaerte vande Caribische Eylanden, vande Barbados tot aende bocht van
Mexico [Doncker 1680?] [301kb]
10.Insulae Americanae in Oceano Septentrionali [Visscher 1680] [335kb]
11.A general map of the continent & islands which be adjacent to Jamaica
[Lea 1685] [387kb]
12.Amerique Septentrionale divisee en ses principales parties [Sanson 1692]
[365kb] 13.Mare del nord [Coronelli 1695] [479kb]
14.Carte general de la Caroline [Sanson 1696] [209kb]
15.Carte particuliere de la Caroline [Sanson 1696] [286kb]
16.Carte du Mexique et de la Floride [Delisle 1703] [306kb]
17.Carte d'un tres grand pais [Hennepin 1704] [220kb]
18.Florida zoo als het van de Spaanschen [Sanson 1705] [117kb]
19.North America [Senex 1710] [348kb]
20.A new and exact map of the dominions of the king [Moll 1715] [445kb]
21.A plan representing the form of settling the districts, or county
divisions in the Margravate of Azilia [Montgomery 1717]] [156kb]
22.Carte de la Louisiane et du cours du Mississippi [Delisle 1718] [384kb]
23.A new map of the north parts of America claimed by France [Moll 1720]
[348kb]
24.A map of Louisiana and of the River Mississippi [Senex 1721] [387kb]
25.A new map of his majesty's flourishing province of South Carolina
[Herbert 1725] [223kb] 26.A map of the British empire in America [Popple
1733] [313kb]
27.America septentrionalis [Delisle 1733] [408kb]
28.[Southeastern North America] (First appearance of "Georgia" - 1732)
[165kb] 29.[Southeastern North America] ("Georgia" - 1733) [245kb]
30.A view of Savanah [Gordon 1734] [198kb]
31.His majesty's colony of Georgia in America [Jones 1734] [198kb]
32.A map of the county of Savannah [Lotter 1740] [422kb]
33.Mappa Geographica Regionem Mexicanam et Floridam Terrasque adjacentes
[Seutter 1739] [352kb]
34.Mappa geographica Regionem Mexicanam et Floridam Terrasque adjacentes
[Lotter 1739] [479kb]
35.Plano dela Entrada de Gualquini Rio de Sn Simon [Arredondo 1737] [192kb]

36.[Seale 1741 Map of Georgia and Part of Carolina] [186kb]
37.An Accurate Map of the West Indies [Bowen 1740] [490kb]
38.Dominia Anglorum in America septentrionali [Homann heirs 1763] [541kb]
39.View of the town & castle of St. Augustine [149kb]
40.A new and accurate map of the provinces of North & South Carolina,
Georgia &c [Bowen 1747] [262kb]
41.Plan von Neu Eben-Ezer [Seutter 1747] [341kb]
42.A New Map of Georgia [Bowen 1748][ [331kb]
43.La Floride divisee en Floride et Carolina [de Vaugondy 1748] [67kb]
44.A map of the British American plantations [Bowen 1754] [169kb]
45.Carolineae Floridae nec non Insularum Bahamensivm [Catesby 1755] [278kb]

46.The Profile of the whole Citadelle of Frederica [De Brahm ca.1755?]
[198kb]
47.A Map of Virginia, North and South Carolina, Maryland with part of New
Jersey [for R. Baldwin 1755] [171kb]
48.A Map of the inhabited part of Georgia [De Brahm ca.1755?] [42kb]
49.America Septentrionalis [d'Anville 1756] [404kb]
50.Sketch of the country between the River Altamaha and Musqueta Inlet
[Georgia and Florida coast 1756?] [106kb]
51.Carte de la Caroline et Georgie [Bellin 1757] [185kb]
52.Carte de la Caroline et Georgie [Bellin 1780] [163kb]
53.A plan of the islands of Sappola [Yonge & De Brahm 1760] [246kb]
54.A new map of the Cherokee Nation [Kitchin 1760] [90kb]
55.Carte de la Louisiane et de la Floride [Bonne 1760] [209kb]
56.A map of the new governments of east and West Florida [Gibson 1760]
[135kb] 57.Amplissima Regionis Mississipi [Homann heirs 1763?] [346kb]
58.A new map of North America [Spilsbury 1763] [346kb]
59.Carte de la nouvelle Georgie [Bellin 1764] [88kb]
60.A new map of North & South carolina, & Georgia [Kitchin 1765] [116kb]
61.A map of Georgia and Florida [Wright 1763] [132kb]
62.A chart of the entrance into St. Mary's River [Fuller 1770] [258kb]
63.Plan du Port de Goudaquini now called Jekyl Sound in the province of
Georgia [n.a. 1771] [124kb]
64.Virginia A.D. 1607 [and] Cherokee county prior to 1776 [2 maps by
Woolley 1776] [78kb] 65.North America, as divided amongst the European
powers [Dunn 1774] [269kb]

All images in these collections are either protected by copyright law, or
are the property of the University of Georgia Libraries, Hargrett Library.
Permission to publish MUST be obtained from both the Hargrett Library,
and/or the legal copyright holder. Black and white photographic
reproductions of most of these materials may be obtained from the Hargrett
Library. For more information, please contact the Hargrett Library at:		12/22/1997 8:03:32
GreetingsHi all,

We have really enjoyed the discussions with you over the last 6 months
or so and, like all family historians, look forward to finding that
"lost link" in 1998.
From rainy Bracknell in the Royal County of Berkshire, England
we would just like to wish you all a happy Christmas holiday and a good
and healthy New Year.

Best wishes,
Pat & Maurice		12/23/1997 9:41:11
Holiday GreetingsCharles NealThanks for the greetings from Maurice, Bud, Al, et al. Would like to add
my best wishes for a merry Christmas to all, and hope for a healthy, happy,
and successful-sleuthing year in 1998, from here in the beautiful sunny
coast of southern California, where the mountains meet the sea.

Best wishes to all,
Barbara Poythress Neal (BPN)		12/23/1997 10:43:30
Season's Greetings!Beetle72"Never a Christmas morning,
Never the old year ends-
But someone thinks of someone,
Old days, old times, old friends."

And adding new friends here with all of you makes for a very special holiday
this year.

Bill and I send you all our best wishes for a very Merry Christmas and a fine
1998.

Sincerely, Barbara and Bill		12/24/1997 7:43:07
Book SaleCharles Neal12-26-97

Craig,

Re your wonderful offer of any books you have in stock at 20% off: Do you
have in stock Dorothy Potter's __Passports of Southeastern Pioneers,
1770-1823__ ? (I see that Genealogical Publishing Co lists it presently
at $32.50 in their recent brochure) This is a book that BPW and I were
talking about recently wishing to consult more fully.

Hope you (& all our Listers) are having a good holiday.

BPN		12/26/1997 11:38:29
Rose Hill CemeteryCharles Neal12-27-97

Judy Speed Scruggs & BPW & I are puzzling over some graves in Rose Hill
Cemetery, which is in Meridian, MS, adjacent to Magnolia Cemetery. If any
of our Poythress Listers can furnish any additional information to help us
figure these out, we surely would appreciate it.

Judy's brother Carl Speed recently located on a visit there, the plot where
James Speed Poythress and his wife Martha Grice Raiford are buried, along
with some other of their family's members apparently. (I know that both
James Speed & his wife Martha, or Mattie, as she was known, are buried
there because I have seen copies of records from their funerals, from Webb
Funeral Home in Meridian, and both records indicate burial was to be at
Rose Hill.)

Judy, I have checked a book that I have entitled __Lauderdale County
Cemetery Records, Vol. IV: Rose Hill Cemetery, August 8, 1874 through 1991,
Meridian, Mississippi__ which was abstracted by Karen Dover (who manages
the office of those 2 adjacent cemeteries) and compiled by Jim Dawson, and
published in 1992 by the Lauderdale County Dept of Archives & History.

The Cemetery's records are incomplete, but show that

(1) James Speed Poythress was buried in 1923, with no further indication of
date, in Lot #358 of Rose Hill. Also named Poythress, and buried in the
same Lot #358, are the following people. (The book is organized by Lot
Number. There are no other burials in Lot 358 of people having any other
surname.)

(2) Eleanor Poythress, who was buried on July 18, 1900. This, of course,
is the logical person to have been the one on the gravemarker which you
cannot fully read from Carl's information, which showed "BORN Aug. 1898 and
DIED ? 1900." Unfortunately, I cannot find any information about who this
Eleanor woud be, from any of the other information I have seen re the
James Speed Poythress family line, or any other Poythress family line. It
is logical that it COULD have been an infant of Charles W. Poythress, Sr.
(who was the eldest child of James Speed Poythress & Martha/Mattie) but
this Eleanor is not mentioned in the book by Betty Lawrence about the James
Speed Poythress family and the James Edward Poythress family, (of which
book I think you have a copy, Judy, but if not, let me know & I'll send
ordering info. Betty is dead now, but her husband publishes her books in
Meridian. Seems to me it cost about $25 to $30.)

(3) Infant of C. W. Poythress (not further identified by name or sex) The
book indicates this infant was buried July 17, 1909, though I note from
your message, Judy, that Carl put down the date as July 17, 1907. Perhaps
the original is difficult to read & I don't know which year is correct. I
have no information about any Poythress child that could fit with this one.
This would be Charles W. Poythress, Sr. and this infant is not mentioned in
Lawrence's book either.

(4) Mrs. Lucy E. Poythress who was buried Dec. 21, 1916. Indeed this is
the first wife of Charles W. Poythress Sr., and yes, I do have confirmation
that his wife is buried in Rose Hill from having seen a funeral record for
her, too, from Webb Funeral Home.

(5) Mary E. Poythress who was buried Feb. 27, 1948. I note that Carl said
this Mary's middle initial was "R" rather than the "E" shown in the
cemetery book; I feel sure the cemetery book lists it wrong, because this
is most likely one of the other children of James Speed Poythress & Mattie,
and a sibling of Charles W. Poythress, Sr: Mary R. Poythress who was born
in 1873 in Sumter County. The only other information about her from
Lawrence's book is that she never married.

I would love to get copies of any cemetery records or photos available for
this Lot #358, that ANY or all of you may have. I'll be glad to reimburse
for getting copies.

Judy also asked me whether a daughter, Martha L. Poythress, of Charles W.
Poythress, Sr. and his first wife, Lucy E. White, may have been the same
person as Mrs. Julian C. Boyd (who was referred to rather cryptically in a
record from Rose Hill Cemetery). All the information that I have about
this Martha L. is from Betty Lawrence's book, which states that she married
"a Boyd." I saw a "Julian Boyd" mentioned in a copy of that November &
December 1977 2-part newspaper article which BPW located in McClenny, FL's
"The Baker County Press" about "The Daring Minnie Poythress." This article
is about the second wife of Charles W. Poythress, Sr., Minnie Mitchell (who
later married a Mr. Tutt, after Charles died in 1931), mentioning that
Charles & Minnie married in 1922. In the article it talks about how Minnie
& Charles came to settle in the area in Dec 1926, after learning of the
opportunities there from "a friend, Julian Boyd." It seems to me that
Julian Boyd may only have been identified in 1977 as a "friend" while he
may actually have been Charles' son-in-law, and thus husband of Martha L.,
since the article was written about 46 yrs after Charles had died, and was
written by someone who probably only knew a very little about Charles at
all, with knowledge coming from/thru Charles' 2nd wife's side (probably
from her or one of her children). They may have forgotten if they had ever
known, of family connections thru Charles' 1st wife's children.
According to Lawrence's book, Charles Sr & Lucy (who married in 1893) had 3
children: (1) Charles Jr, who was known as "Buddy" and (2) a James
Edward Poythress who married & lived in Vicksburg & had a daughter M. L.
who was a talented musician; and (3) Martha L. who married a Boyd. Since
Lucy, this first wife of Charles Sr., died in 1916, and since he didn't
marry again until 1922 to Minnie, all 3 of these children by Lucy were
probably considerably older than the 3 children Charles Sr. & Minnie had,
Sarah, Luta, and Erin (not further identified in Lawrence's book).

If any of our Listers have any further identifying information about any of
these 6 children of Charles Poythress Sr, I surely would appreciate
learning it.

Barbara Poythress Neal (BPN)
BarbPoythressNeal@compuserve.com		12/27/1997 11:33:11
Jefferson DavisDARTBOBI am sending this to all of the lists I can think of that involve the
"Descendants of Pocahontas":

Many are perpetuating the myth that Jefferson Davis is descended from the
Powhattan-Hughes-Davis line. This in conjunction with the "Princess Nicketti"
story. Not so.

Check the Rice History Dept. web page on Jeff Davis at

http://www.ruf.rice.edu/%7Epjdavis/gene.htm

Here is the descendancy from Jeff Davis' earliest identifiable ancestor:

Descendants of Evan Davis

1 Evan Davis b: Wales d: Bef. May 14, 1747 Sex: Male
+Mary ? d: December 1758 m: Abt. 1716 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
2 Evan Davis b: 1729 d: Abt. 1758 Sex: Male
+Mary Emory Williams m: Abt. 1755 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
3 Samuel Emory Davis d: July 04, 1824 Sex: Male
+Jane Cook d: October 03, 1845 m: 1783 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
4 JEFFERSON FINIS DAVIS b: June 03, 1808 Christian Co., KY d: December 06,
1889 New Orleans, LA b: Hollywood Cem., Richmond, VA b: Hollywood Cem.,
Richmond, VA Sex: Male
+Sarah Knox Taylor b: March 06, 1814 Vincennes, IN d: September 15, 1835
West Feliciana Par., LA m: June 17, 1835 Lexington, KY Father: Zachery
Taylor Mother: Margaret Peggy Mackall SMITH Sex: Female
*2nd Wife of Jefferson Finis Davis:
+Varina Anne Banks Howell b: May 07, 1826 Vicksburg, MS d: October 16,
1906 New York, NY m: February 26, 1845 Natchez, MS Father: Mother: Sex:
Female
5 Samuel Emory Davis b: July 30, 1852 d: June 13, 1854 Sex: Male
5 Margaret Howell Davis b: February 25, 1855 d: July 18, 1909 b: Hollywood
Cem., Richmond VA b: Hollywood Cem., Richmond VA Sex: Female
+Joel Addison Hayes, Jr. b: March 04, 1848 d: January 26, 1919 m: January
01, 1876 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Jefferson Davis, Jr. b: January 16, 1857 d: October 16, 1878 Sex:
Male
5 Joseph Evan Davis b: April 18, 1859 d: April 30, 1864 Sex: Male
5 William Howell Davis b: December 06, 1861 d: October 16, 1872 Sex:
Male
5 Varina Anne Davis b: June 27, 1864 d: September 18, 1898 Sex:
Female
4 Joseph Emory Davis b: December 10, 1784 d: September 18, 1870 Sex:
Male
+Eliza Van Benthuysen b: January 23, 1811 d: October 24, 1863 m: October
04, 1827 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Florida Ann Davis b: March 31, 1811 d: January 18, 1891 Sex:
Female
+David McCaleb, Jr. b: October 21, 1803 d: May 28, 1847 m: October 21,
1830 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
*2nd Husband of Florida Ann Davis:
+Edmund C. Laughlin b: June 11, 1811 d: September 09, 1889 m: July 17,
1848 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Mary Lucinda Davis b: May 01, 1816 d: November 22, 1846 Sex:
Female
+[1] Charles Jouett Mitchel b: May 31, 1813 d: January 31, 1886 m:
February 06, 1838 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Caroline Davis d: July 13, 1907 Sex: Female
+Thomas Enoch Robins b: 1808-1809 d: November 06, 1850 m: December 27,
1842 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
*2nd Husband of Caroline Davis:
+Abraham Faw Leonard b: January 11, 1820 d: December 27, 1870 m: December
03, 1856 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
4 Benjamin Davis d: October 22, 1827 Sex: Male
+Aurelia Smith b: 1802 d: 1866 m: 1824 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Mary Ann Davis b: 1825 d: April 13, 1828 Sex: Female
4 Samuel A. Davis d: November 08, 1831 Sex: Male
+Lucinda Throckmorton d: February 18, 1873 Father: Mother: Sex:
Female
5 Benjamin Throckmorton Davis b: July 29, 1820 d: May 01, 1899 Sex:
Male
+Pauline Taylor b: January 31, 1836 d: January 10, 1919 m: August 19,
1855 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Helen M. Davis b: 1822 d: August 13, 1913 Sex: Female
+Patrick Foley Keary b: 1817 d: July 15, 1871 m: March 11,
1841 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Robert Hugh Davis b: 1824 d: December 1865 Sex: Male
5 Samuel A. Davis b: 1830 d: September 20, 1851 Sex: Male
5 Joseph Davis Sex: Male
4 Anna Eliza Davis b: September 01, 1791 d: August 13, 1870 Sex:
Female
+Luther L. Smith b: 1769 d: December 24, 1833 m: March 31,
1816 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Joseph Davis Smith b: April 06, 1817 d: January 13, 1876 Sex: Male
+Marie Coralie Guibert b: 1822 d: June 30, 1863 m: April 24,
1839 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Luther L. Smith, Jr. b: September 07, 1818 d: November 01,
1858 Sex: Male
5 Gordon A. Smith b: March 26, 1820 d: September 19, 1883 Sex: Male
5 Lucinda Jane Smith b: January 20, 1822 d: August 24, 1889 Sex:
Female
+William D. Boyle b: 1805 d: September 21, 1847 m: May 17,
1836 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Jedediah Davis Smith b: July 31, 1824 d: February 23, 1891 Sex:
Male
+Susan Madison Buck b: Abt. 1840 d: Aft. July 1900 m: November 18,
1856 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Anna Amanda Smith b: December 06, 1826 d: November 07, 1887 Sex:
Female
+Philander C. Smith b: 1821 d: October 02, 1853 m: November 21,
1850 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
4 Isaac Williams Davis b: October 1792 d: 1833 Sex: Male
+Susan Gartley b: March 18, 1794 m: March 06,
1874 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Lewis Davis b: 1823 d: 1830 Sex: Male
5 Joseph Robert Davis b: January 12, 1825 d: September 15, 1896 Sex:
Male
+Frances H. Peyton b: Abt. 1823 d: Aft. 1877 m:
1848 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
*2nd Wife of Joseph Robert Davis:
+Margaret Cary Green b: 1850 d: January 15, 1939 m: March 18,
1879 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
4 Lucinda Ferrar Davis b: June 05, 1797 d: December 14, 1873 Sex:
Female
+Hugh Davis b: 1792 d: July 12, 1817 m: December 12,
1816 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Hugh Robert Davis b: March 03, 1818 d: March 01, 1871 Sex: Female
+Ann Jane Boyle b: 1823 d: June 17, 1882 m: March 26,
1845 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
*2nd Husband of Lucinda Ferrar Davis:
+William Stamps b: November 03, 1797 d: March 04, 1878 m: March 05,
1820 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Jane Davis Stamps b: December 21, 1820 d: September 14, 1884 Sex:
Female
+William Wilson Alexander b: March 02, 1819 d: July 21, 1874 m: February
27, 1845 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Anna Aurelia Stamps b: February 02, 1823 d: June 10, 1895 Sex:
Female
+Claiborne Farish b: 1820 d: November 18, 1889 m: January 17,
1856 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 William Stamps, Jr. b: December 28, 1825 d: February 09, 1843 Sex:
Male
5 Isaac Stamps b: April 23, 1823 d: July 03, 1863 Sex: Male
+Mary Elizabeth Douglas Humphreys b: February 13, 1835 d: May 09, 1900 m:
May 11, 1854 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
4 Amanda Jane Davis b: November 14, 1800 d: October 22, 1881 Sex:
Female
+David Bradford b: February 02, 1796 d: March 13, 1844 m: November 06,
1820 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 David Bradford, Jr. b: July 25, 1821 d: August 15, 1831 Sex: Male
5 Benjamin Franklin Bradford b: 1822 d: 1885 Sex: Male
5 Mary Jane Bradford b: 1826 d: 1877 Sex: Female
+Richard Brodhead b: January 05, 1811 d: September 16, 1863 m: April 03,
1849 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
*2nd Husband of Mary Jane Bradford:
+Robert Sayre m: 1872 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Anna Matilda Bradford b: July 06, 1827 d: October 29, 1904 Sex:
Female
+Edward Leo Miles b: August 15, 1825 d: August 23, 1905 m: May 17,
1848 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Elizabeth Porter Bradford b: November 1828 d: May 03, 1916 Sex:
Female
+Maunsel White, Jr. b: January 26, 1830 d: March 01, 1896 m: June 12,
1855 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Lucinda Stamps Bradford b: November 11, 1831 d: February 07,
1919 Sex: Female
+[1] Charles Jouett Mitchel b: May 31, 1813 d: January 31, 1886 m:
December 13, 1850 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 David Bradford, Jr. b: 1834 d: July 10, 1903 Sex: Male
+Ada Eliza Pottenger b: September 11, 1854 d: September 11, 1884 m:
December 18, 1883 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Sarah Bradford b: 1837 d: September 27, 1852 Sex: Female
5 Jefferson Davis Bradford b: 1839 d: July 31, 1910 Sex: Male
+Virgie Patterson Father: Mother: Sex: Female
*2nd Wife of Jefferson Davis Bradford:
+Helen Sumner b: 1834 d: December 18, 1887 m: July 21,
1868 Father: Mother: Sex: Female
5 Unnamed Bradford b: 1840 d: 1840 Sex: Unknown
4 Matilda Davis b: 1801 Sex: Female
4 Mary Ellen Davis b: 1805-1806 Sex: Female
+Robert Davis b: 1790 m: February 05, 1820 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Jane Lucinda Davis b: 1820 d: November 23, 1851 Sex: Female
+Hazlewood M. Farish b: 1809 d: May 05, 1851 m: May 03,
1842 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
5 Ellen Mary Davis b: 1824 d: 1915 Sex: Female
+Thomas Salmond Anderson b: 1819 d: February 22, 1861 m: March 01,
1853 Father: Mother: Sex: Male
2 Benjamin Davis d: Bef. 1762 Sex: Male
2 William Davis d: Bef. July 24, 1771 Sex: Male
+Christiana ? Father: Mother: Sex: Female
2 Samuel Davis d: Bef. January 01, 1759 Sex: Male
+Martha ? Father: Mother: Sex: Female
2 Hannah Davis Sex: Female
+Jacob Dubre, Jr. d: Bef. July 11, 1768 m: January 12,
1758 Father: Mother: Sex: Male

I cannot find any connection to any of the Davis (or any other) lines involved
in the "Pocahontas" descendancy.

Its a cute story but makes the Princess Nicketti tale even less believable
when included with it.

Happy New Year to all you cuz'ns,

Harris R. (Bob) Manning Charleston, SC

http://members.aol.com/DARTBOB/index.html		12/28/1997 4:13:41
Correction re Rose Hill messageCharles NealIn my message of a few minutes ago re Rose Hill Cemetery, I mentioned (late
in the message) about Minnie Mitchell who was the 2nd wife of Charles
William Poythress, Sr. I erroneously said that Minnie "later married a Mr.
Tutt, after Charles died in 1931." Actually Minnie had FIRST been married
to Mr. Vernon Tutt, sometime after she had graduated from college in
Livingston, AL in 1907, and she was widowed when Tutt was murdered,
according to the same newspaper article which I mentioned in my message.
Sorry for any confusion. (I also know, from having seen the Social
Security Death files, that Minnie died in January of 1969; thus she was
probably NOT the source of information for the 1977 newspaper article about
her.)

BPN		12/28/1997 12:02:28
Databases Ancestry, Inc.VKRatliffAs an advertisement for their services, Ancestry, Inc. is opening up their
databases
for 7 day trial free subscriptions. Go to www.ancestry.com....sign on and
you'll be given a code name and password which will allow you access into all
of their information. While not very selective, their data are certainly
humongous.

Anticipate some of them will be hard to get into and I'm guessing that the
free trials have loaded up their server.....but some of it is worth fooling
around in.

Maynard		12/29/1997 4:44:25